"Sugarbabies" / "Arrangements" Amateurs or Not?

[NutInHer]

I used this method very recently to set up my most recent SA membership. This was in the past two weeks or so?

When did you try it? I did not get the request for dob or ssn. I created a new monger PayPal account linked to my monger email and burner phone. I purchased a vanilla visa gift card from Walmart using cash.

Maybe that they recently changed their policy? I also used an address of mine from about 10 addresses ago.So out of frustration, I emailed SA with my prepaid vanilla infomation and they processed my transaction within 12 hours. Now I have a couple babies I'm meeting up with soon.

[FarFarAway]

Hey maybe it is just me and my "nature" but what you did violates the basis of privacy. Oh and sorry to appear so harsh but this really rankles me.

Why would you tie your real identity to your hobby email & phone number? Give your head a shake! What is the purpose of having a hobby number and e-mail if it is tied to your real person: name, DL#, DOB, SSN, mother's maiden name, etc!

If you travel burn off the dollars on that card on legitimate, non-hobby expenses and move on from it and start over.

What would scare me is that I left a "bread crumb" trail from my sugar email and sugar phone number to my real person. Perhaps it is time to dump those and move on there as well? If one continues to use the sugar email & phone, then the bread crumb trail to the real person works. Get a new email and phone and that trail leads to a dead end and only "past" connections are the risk factors.

But hey, I'm just paranoid. I'm just sayin'.Second follow up. What I've done since.

I called the card issuer and changed the phone # and email address associated with the account. So now it is just a US debit card that is approved for foreign purchases. What do you think my risk is now? I am thinking I should use this only for civi purchases, right? It will work on SA, but my name etc. Is associated with it, and that means SA could get that info. It's not like a OneVanilla that has only my zip code. Thanks for catching my bad. That's what the Forum is for and that's why I posted. Also, CL, I was going to send you a PM but your mailbox is full.

[IluvSmellyFish]

The problem with your question is that it varies by region. For example, broken down by date, I haven't been able to get a quality baby in NYC for anything less than $500, but in Philly, I've had a 8/9/8 teenage spinner who wanted an allowance of $200 per date and thought a date at chicken and Pete's was upscale. In DC, most 8/8/8 or above balk at an allowance of less than $400 and think a date at a Jose Andres restaurant is too "chainy. " Less than an hour away, I had a rotation filled with teen 9/9/9 spinners off of Baltimore Craigslist made up of students from um nursing, Hopkins, and Towson who were thrilled with $150 per date and a night out at the cheesecake factory in the inner harbor.

Long story short, it depends where you are. It also depends on your skill. For example, Hoya doesn't provide an allowance, and actually dates his sbs. Hes divorced and can offer a pot the possibility of a future with a rich older guy. I think Bike Rider is rhe same, except he has a SO. I dont have the game to get away with that and also gift an allowance to make sure that there is an even trade for discretion. On the other hand some guys take pride in making promises to a girl, but after a long night of sex and drinking, bounce the next day and leave nothing or some modest amount that they think in thier minds is ok since the baby had the privilidge of being with him. The last type of play is not my style for a lot of reasons, but to each his own.

But yes, aggregating figures is a tried and true method. Starting at $1 k a month makes a baby feel less like a two bit SW, and is often less than a decent escorts. Of course until they are proven and trusted, you would never give a baby $1 k up front. That's when I tell them I provide a weekly allowance at first. I tend to stay away from talking about a per date allowance since it often makes them feel cheap, and also has the upside of allowing for more than one date a week.

Just my two cents.

Fish out.


Hey all. Just curious as to what all you guys are doing allowance wise? One thing I noticed that seems to get more reception is to speak larger, whole amounts vice per meet amounts. Say you offer a G for 3-4 dates a month. Broken down that's a quarter each visit. But they mostly hear that large number. If you only meet a couple times, you get a lower overall cost. So how do you guys roll with this?

[IluvSmellyFish]

Some babies who are Uber competitive will go into overdrive when they know they are not the only one in the mix. They will refuse an allowance, give you crazy sex, offer to go bareback, etc. To convince you that they are the only one you need. It's a complete turnoff to others who view it as a std risk, or who lack the will to compete. To some it doesn't matter, since they are dating multiple daddies and so expect that you're doing the same.

If you have a competitive baby, letting her know about others could be a good thing. I've found that most girls are competitive but it often makes them do some crazy things, especially during that time of the month.


I'm getting my first going, and wonder about some stuff. Do they know of the other (s), and if so, can you play them off against each other to get better deals? I have one on a monthly allowance, one who likes pay per meet, equally attractive in their own ways. Any other key advice I need to heed?

[FarFarAway]

Help me brothers. I have my newest baby in the FC in the morning (mimosas all ready to go), and she had her purse stolen last weekend so she has no CCs. I attempted the hotel booking ala the famous F Scott recipe found here. Found a good rate online. Phoned the hotel and booked using a prepaid debit card (OneVanilla) with $210 on it. I knew I was going to have to show a DL but went with a reservation name that is an easy misspelling of my real one. I show up, she barely glances at the DL, and I think I'm good. I give her the debit card to run and the system won't take it. The amount that their system was going to hold against the card was $190. They would not allow me to pay for the whole thing in advance in cash. They said they would take my cash in the morning, though. However, to check in, I was forced to give them a credit card, not a debit card, and the only thing I had that I felt even remotely comfortable with was a business CC that I pay, the SO never sees. This was at a downmarket brand of Marriot. What did I do wrong, and how do I avoid this in the future?

[FarFarAway]

Some babies who are Uber competitive will go into overdrive when they know they are not the only one in the mix. They will refuse an allowance, give you crazy sex, offer to go bareback, etc. To convince you that they are the only one you need. It's a complete turnoff to others who view it as a std risk, or who lack the will to compete. To some it doesn't matter, since they are dating multiple daddies and so expect that you're doing the same.

If you have a competitive baby, letting her know about others could be a good thing. I've found that most girls are competitive but it often makes them do some crazy things, especially during that time of the month.Good insights. The paypermeet baby probably is dating others, and mentioned she had a clean STD test to show me. The allowance girl is probably not dating others (and I like the idea of having her exclusive), is smart and ambitious, even driven. Sounds competitive to me. But she also may want a 'BF'. Is there danger of driving her away if I let her know about the other girl, and how do you bring a topic like this up? The paypermeet girl likely wouldn't be motivated by allowance girl, right?

[BikeRider]

We still need to find a prepaid debit card that is approved for international purposes.No such beast. I've searched. You can get virtual credit card numbers on the dark web, but you're getting credit card numbers and a web interface from someone completely unknown to you. The potential to be ripped off is high.

If they'll take the digits over the phone or via email at SA, what bother with anything else?

[BikeRider]

Second follow up. What I've done since.

...
It's not like a OneVanilla that has only my zip code. .... No need to use your real zip code. Just set it to one you'll remember easily.

[FarFarAway]

No need to use your real zip code. Just set it to one you'll remember easily.Yep, that's what I've been doing. I have a total sugar identity, with the sugar last name that goes with an address with a zip code I always use. That part I've got OK.

[Enzo Amore]

I met a decent girl, who wants $1200 per month (or a little more). She claims we have to sneak in her apt (she has roommates but has her own room). The way she talked, I could see her 2-3 times per week. She lives in a very poor area (not DC, NYC).

When I offered $1000 and she take down her SA and whatsherprice ads, she kind of got mad. She stated "I don't know why $1200+ is a problem for you, all the other guys that I start to talk to are completely ok with that. You are the complete package and they are not. My needs ($1200) are greater than my wants (me I guess) right now. ".

Should I take the plunge and go for the $1200 per month? The bedroom skills could be a home run or a dead fish. $1200 per month is above my sugar budget for the month but 2-3 times a week of mind blowing sex might be worth it.

Any advise is appreciated! Thank you gentleman. Keep the hunt going!

[John HandCock]

I met a decent girl, who wants $1200 per month (or a little more). She claims we have to sneak in her apt (she has roommates but has her own room). The way she talked, I could see her 2-3 times per week. She lives in a very poor area (not DC, NYC).

When I offered $1000 and she take down her SA and whatsherprice ads, she kind of got mad. She stated "I don't know why $1200+ is a problem for you, all the other guys that I start to talk to are completely ok with that. You are the complete package and they are not. My needs ($1200) are greater than my wants (me I guess) right now. ".

Should I take the plunge and go for the $1200 per month? The bedroom skills could be a home run or a dead fish. $1200 per month is above my sugar budget for the month but 2-3 times a week of mind blowing sex might be worth it.

Any advise is appreciated! Thank you gentleman. Keep the hunt going!Its simple, first for 2-3 times a week plus she has a place its a good value. 2nd if you can't afford it move on or get a second job.

[JZLizard]

I met a decent girl, who wants $1200 per month (or a little more). She claims we have to sneak in her apt (she has roommates but has her own room). The way she talked, I could see her 2-3 times per week. She lives in a very poor area (not DC, NYC). When I offered $1000 and she take down her SA and whatsherprice ads, she kind of got mad. She stated "I don't know why $1200+ is a problem for you, all the other guys that I start to talk to are completely ok with that. You are the complete package and they are not. My needs ($1200) are greater than my wants (me I guess) right now. ". Should I take the plunge and go for the $1200 per month? The bedroom skills could be a home run or a dead fish. $1200 per month is above my sugar budget for the month but 2-3 times a week of mind blowing sex might be worth it. Any advise is appreciated! Thank you gentleman. Keep the hunt going!Well this is one reason I avoid the ones that insist on talking money up front. It forces the entire situation to revolve around some number that's in her head or your head or both. I tell them numbers are for escorts, I'm in this to date, and I enjoy gifting the girls I date. I could never see the logic in two people discussing some monthly amount up front when the two haven't even met yet. You might not like each other. You might think each other smells bad. You might think the other doesn't look like their pics. So how does it make sense to come up with some firm agreement based on presumptions that could turn out to be wrong? Isn't it better for both of you to see what you're really working with, and figure that all out once the facts are known?

If done any other way, she's basically telling herself "hmm, how much would it take for me to fuck this random guy I've never even seen before". Only a pro, UTR or pro-wannabe would do that.

That said, if you have already made the mistake of discussing money up front and really want this girl, then for what she is saying (12 visits a month for $1200), I'd say that's a fairly economical expectation in the sugar world. Sometimes I practice negotiating with girls in markets that I have no intention of visiting just to stay on top of that game and keep skills sharp on what makes these girls tick. Fairly regularly I can talk girls down from $400-500 per visit expectation to $100 per visit, but again my purpose here is not the numbers themselves but paying close attention to the processes involved in causing them to revalue their pussy at 20% of their original twat-appraisal, and zeroing in on what works with what girl and what does not.

Or, another thing you could do is agree to her original offer contingent on pay per visit, then just visit her 10 times a month instead of 12 and you've hit your desired target.

[Ltnric]

So I took the advice from many mongers. I got a vanilla one card and then I texted the information to SA help desk. In less than 12 hours they emailed me and said my subscription was paid. It was very easy.

[Enzo Amore]

I already had the meet and greet with her. We talked at the end of it and she said her bills were $1200 minimum a month.

[BikeRider]

Well this is one reason I avoid the ones that insist on talking money up front. It forces the entire situation to revolve around some number that's in her head or your head or both. I tell them numbers are for escorts, I'm in this to date, and I enjoy gifting the girls I date. I could never see the logic in two people discussing some monthly amount up front when the two haven't even met yet. You might not like each other. You might think each other smells bad. You might think the other doesn't look like their pics. So how does it make sense to come up with some firm agreement based on presumptions that could turn out to be wrong? Isn't it better for both of you to see what you're really working with, and figure that all out once the facts are known?

If done any other way, she's basically telling herself "hmm, how much would it take for me to fuck this random guy I've never even seen before". Only a pro, UTR or pro-wannabe would do that.

That said, if you have already made the mistake of discussing money up front and really want this girl, then for what she is saying (12 visits a month for $1200), I'd say that's a fairly economical expectation in the sugar world. Sometimes I practice negotiating with girls in markets that I have no intention of visiting just to stay on top of that game and keep skills sharp on what makes these girls tick. Fairly regularly I can talk girls down from $400-500 per visit expectation to $100 per visit, but again my purpose here is not the numbers themselves but paying close attention to the processes involved in causing them to revalue their pussy at 20% of their original twat-appraisal, and zeroing in on what works with what girl and what does not.

Or, another thing you could do is agree to her original offer contingent on pay per visit, then just visit her 10 times a month instead of 12 and you've hit your desired target.It is often difficult to not discuss numbers prior to meeting. From the woman's perspective she doesn't want to waste her time on someone doesn't have the means or desire to meet her expectations. From my perspective, I don't waste the time for a meeting only to find out she has GPS. I do see JZ's point though.

I approach it on a case by case basis. I prefer to take JZ's approach, but there are times where I can't or prefer to just have a more transactional meeting. When I know it is just going to be transactional, I always discuss the gift up front to avoid wasting time and potential restaurant drama.

[JZLizard]

It is often difficult to not discuss numbers prior to meeting. From the woman's perspective she doesn't want to waste her time on someone doesn't have the means or desire to meet her expectations. From my perspective, I don't waste the time for a meeting only to find out she has GPS. I do see JZ's point though.

I approach it on a case by case basis. I prefer to take JZ's approach, but there are times where I can't or prefer to just have a more transactional meeting. When I know it is just going to be transactional, I always discuss the gift up front to avoid wasting time and potential restaurant drama.If I were just going for quantity, I would have to say I definitely lose a measurable amount of opportunity by sending the money-first girls on their way, but I've already accepted that sugaring is a lot of work, so after a while I think it actually makes things easier to just pass on the girls who insist on discussing it. There are a lot of girls who are conditioned to discussing money first, because the blogs have told them that's the only way they should do it, and that behavior has been reinforced by guys that are willing to play their game to get in their pants. And that's fine, because I'm willing to forego getting in their pants, because the less time I waste on them, the quicker I can find the kind of girl I really want.

But as I've mentioned before, I absolutely do discuss money when hunting for stripper takeout, that's all about the art of the deal (and part of the fun, I think). But then again whenever I walk into a strip club, I'm going in with the knowledge that there may not even be any girls in the place I like, and even if there are, there may not be any that are available enough or interested enough to go home with me, regardless of the offering. I just know its going to cost me one way or another because they went to work to make money that night and at a minimum I will have to buy them out.

But well employed strippers are a different group. As far as SBs go, My personality is just too dominate to do things her way. And to do things my way is more like "let's meet and see if we like each other and go from there" which I think is fair enough. I don't like transactional sure things. It's just my preference but the challenge and going into it not knowing exactly how it is going to turn out is part of the fun. I don't mind paying money (actually prefer to) but I don't want payment to stand in the way of the suspense.

[FarFarAway]

My newest baby, OCHottie, went to the FC with me for the morning today. This is my 2nd experience with a mystical 'girl 1/3 my age' - she's 21. Unlike the first experience, this girl wasn't pudgy. Big tits (not firm, not floppy), serious skills. She's a first timer, and I teased her that she would only be an official sugar baby once I penetrated her. And when I did, she immediately got 'that look', and I knew we were good.

Sorry to be repetitive, but my playing in the bowl is due all to the outstanding senior members who post such excellent advice here. I couldn't have imagined even in May that I could be having mind-blowing sex with a 20-something. I am far better in the FC than I've been in civi life over the past couple of decades. Sometimes I feel I am racing to do this before I die. I will at least do so with a smile on my face.

[JZLizard]

I already had the meet and greet with her. We talked at the end of it and she said her bills were $1200 minimum a month.Ok, I misunderstood the situation a bit, I think you did the right thing by meeting with her first at least. The only time I've had a meet and greet, then discussed money, it turned out badly (yes that was a mistake I made exactly one time in the past, never again).

The other times I showed her, via taking her out for a night on the town, that I am very much for real in terms of my ABILITY to give her what she really wants (never confuse ability with willingness). I might be staying in an expensive hotel, I might take her for dinner and drinks at expensive places and burn $200 just on that portion of the date and I might throw the waiter a ridiculously generous tip for doing his job well.

This sends a very clear message to the girl. I can afford to do the above because I'm not just some Walmart door greeter pretending to be successful on the Internet, I am what I say I am and I got here for a reason. Now its up to her to prove she's good enough. By this time she's smart enough to know she's not the only 20 year old in the world who would like to get fucked by me and helped with life's bills. She realizes she is in competition, and that if she fucks the date up she might lose the chance.

So prior to the M&G I tell her let's just meet and see if we have a good time. Then I make sure she has a good time, from the conversation to making sure she orders whatever she wants from the menu and / or goes wherever she wants for a night on the town, to the sex afterwards. Call it micro-spoiling if you want. What is somewhat tricky about it is that I enjoy the dating aspect too, so even if I blow a significant amount of cash on dinner and drinks, she really only benefited from roughly half of that, the other half of the expenses were enjoyed by me.

In bed, I'm not overly focused on what I want to do, but equally focused on what it takes to get her off. That last sentence is what really saves you on the total gift amount and ensures future interest. Solve that problem and it really doesn't matter what you gift them in cash the next morning, they will continue texting you non stop for the next week about how over the top amazing it was and how they can't get it out of their mind.

If they feel like they are there solely to meet your needs, they will bill you for it. If you're meeting THEIR needs, they are way too busy enjoying the moment to to worry about they are getting paid.

In my case, the hotel room is overhead I would have had anyway from traveling, so it would be an expensive hobby if I rolled that into the mix, but since it needs to be paid whether or not I have a girl I don't figure it in to the total.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Enzo sounds like you've got a pot on the hook. My recommendation would be to break up the allowance initially to make sure she doesn't pull a grab and dash. Tell her you prefer weekly allowance at first until trust is developed. When she balks, tell her that you would never expect intimacy from a baby without giving her an allowance, and would expect the same consideration from your future baby. If she responds by saying that she can be trusted and that by breaking up the allowance you are making her feel cheap, tell her that you've reconsidered, and that you'll provide the allowance on a monthly basis at the end of the month (I. E. After your 3-4 visits are completed). I've found this tactic to cause a pot to backtrack and to become very happy with weekly allowance, which is essentially a pay per meet allowance with the upside of having the possibility of a free date if you see the baby more than once in that week.

By characterizing the allowance as "weekly" you avoid the stigma attached to "pay to play". You also get to sample the goods before going all in with a $1,200 investment. If she is a dead fish in bed, then you've protected yourself. This also has the added bonus of guaranteeing 4 meets a month (assuming you have the time for four meets).

There are plenty of guys in the bowl that consider paying for a date and providing a very modest gift as their "allowance" to a baby. I know this because my prior babies have complained about guys like this. These SDs talk up a girl, setting expectations high, dance around discussion of allowance but provide just enough of a hint of some huge payday that the pot is willing to take a chance but then leave a gift that doesn't match expectations. The babies are often too inexperienced in life to complain, and who would they complain to? Not something you would share with a family member or a friend. This tactic works for some who travel since there is no expectation of a recurring relationship and on an inexperienced pot. After a pot is burned once though, you can rest assured they will almost never agree to a fc date without first establishing what the allowance will be. Then the next SD is left with a situation where the pot won't come to the m&g until allowance is discussed.

I don't critcize the above method since to each his own, but in my experience, if you are trying to build up a rotation of recurring SBs, the better way to do it is to communicate expectations after the m&g, as you have done.

Remember, this is the sugar bowl. If these girls wanted to date an older guy for fun without the expectation of an allowance they would be on tinder or match.

Good luck with your pot. May you have many trips to the fc with her.

Fish out.


I already had the meet and greet with her. We talked at the end of it and she said her bills were $1200 minimum a month.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Ffa, congrats again! It's childish, I know, but I have to say I told you so. You have hit paydirt by reading the board, studying the tactics, and reviewing the tips compiled by an enterprising brother (the one where JizzLizzard is the admini assistant, or whatever his new handle is now).

Technology is a wonderful thing. No? If you really like this new baby, set her up with subscription accounts like Pandora One, Pandora Plus (all these young babies love Electronic dance music) and / or Netflix. These subscriptions are super cheap, but have the effect of cementing your arrangement.

My post below was from a few weeks ago. I'm glad that the bowl has worked out for you!


Congrats on the win Ffa. As you continue to play, I think you'll find that you'll hit paydirt eventually. That spinner you're looking for is waiting for you.

It's a numbers game. Even a fat, arrogant, narcissist has a chance in the bowl.

Read the entire thread that was put together by an enterprising young SD (I think JeezLizzard is the admin assistant for that thread).

It has great tips for how to differentiate yourself from the other daddys (e. G. Work out, be nice, always leave an encounter by being respectful even if it doesn't end up at the fc since they tend to cum back after meeting the Jerks etc).

Give it time and you'll meet that 20 year old spinner, who looks like a librarian when she walks into the hotel in the trench coat you bought for her, but is wearing nothing but a bra, garter, and black nylon thigh highs underneath. When she's on the bed facedown begging you to take her in the ass, while she's playing with her dripping wet pussy, you'll be glad you stuck with it. You may even start to like doggy more.

Oh how I miss my swim instructor some days.

[FarFarAway]

Ffa, congrats again! It's childish, I know, but I have to say I told you so. You have hit paydirt by reading the board, studying the tactics, and reviewing the tips compiled by an enterprising brother (the one where JizzLizzard is the admini assistant, or whatever his new handle is now).

Technology is a wonderful thing. No? If you really like this new baby, set her up with subscription accounts like Pandora One, Pandora Plus (all these young babies love Electronic dance music) and / or Netflix. These subscriptions are super cheap, but have the effect of cementing your arrangement.

My post below was from a few weeks ago. I'm glad that the bowl has worked out for you!Thanks for the attaboy, Fish, and the encouragement after '1/3 my age' #1. Are there technical details about getting a girl a scrip to those services discretely that you can share? I'm not familiar with them. Some who have ongoing babies are getting instruction from their girls about the new techno world, but I'm not quite there yet. I have another trip to the FC with a model-quality 20's girl next week. Hitting my wallet hard, but I jumped over many other wannabee daddies to get there. Will post the outcome.

[CigarFL]

Hey all. Just curious as to what all you guys are doing allowance wise? One thing I noticed that seems to get more reception is to speak larger, whole amounts vice per meet amounts. Say you offer a G for 3-4 dates a month. Broken down that's a quarter each visit. But they mostly hear that large number. If you only meet a couple times, you get a lower overall cost. So how do you guys roll with this?I've never done the retainer / allowance thing. That said, I have a 100 percent batting average offering $100-$150 for a single date. I admit that I am not scoring the 10/10 models with that, but I have gotten solid 7/8's who provided a great experience.

[BikeRider]

Ok, I misunderstood the situation a bit, I think you did the right thing by meeting with her first at least. The only time I've had a meet and greet, then discussed money, it turned out badly (yes that was a mistake I made exactly one time in the past, never again).

The other times I showed her, via taking her out for a night on the town, that I am very much for real in terms of my ABILITY to give her what she really wants (never confuse ability with willingness). I might be staying in an expensive hotel, I might take her for dinner and drinks at expensive places and burn $200 just on that portion of the date and I might throw the waiter a ridiculously generous tip for doing his job well.

This sends a very clear message to the girl. I can afford to do the above because I'm not just some Walmart door greeter pretending to be successful on the Internet, I am what I say I am and I got here for a reason. Now its up to her to prove she's good enough. By this time she's smart enough to know she's not the only 20 year old in the world who would like to get fucked by me and helped with life's bills. She realizes she is in competition, and that if she fucks the date up she might lose the chance.

So prior to the M&G I tell her let's just meet and see if we have a good time. Then I make sure she has a good time, from the conversation to making sure she orders whatever she wants from the menu and / or goes wherever she wants for a night on the town, to the sex afterwards. Call it micro-spoiling if you want. What is somewhat tricky about it is that I enjoy the dating aspect too, so even if I blow a significant amount of cash on dinner and drinks, she really only benefited from roughly half of that, the other half of the expenses were enjoyed by me.

In bed, I'm not overly focused on what I want to do, but equally focused on what it takes to get her off. That last sentence is what really saves you on the total gift amount and ensures future interest. Solve that problem and it really doesn't matter what you gift them in cash the next morning, they will continue texting you non stop for the next week about how over the top amazing it was and how they can't get it out of their mind.

If they feel like they are there solely to meet your needs, they will bill you for it. If you're meeting THEIR needs, they are way too busy enjoying the moment to to worry about they are getting paid.

In my case, the hotel room is overhead I would have had anyway from traveling, so it would be an expensive hobby if I rolled that into the mix, but since it needs to be paid whether or not I have a girl I don't figure it in to the total.Do you offer her a cash gift before she leaves? Based on some of your previous posts, I suspect you do to keep things at "arm's length".

[BikeRider]

Thanks for the attaboy, Fish, and the encouragement after '1/3 my age' #1. Are there technical details about getting a girl a scrip to those services discretely that you can share? I'm not familiar with them. Some who have ongoing babies are getting instruction from their girls about the new techno world, but I'm not quite there yet. I have another trip to the FC with a model-quality 20's girl next week. Hitting my wallet hard, but I jumped over many other wannabee daddies to get there. Will post the outcome.Congrats! I'm not old enough yet to hit the 3 x club yet without going to jail, but the 2. 5 x club has been very very good to me.

You should be able to set it up with a gift card and your sugar email (or theirs). Just make sure and not let it run out while you still have her in the rotation!

[JZLizard]

Do you offer her a cash gift before she leaves? Based on some of your previous posts, I suspect you do to keep things at "arm's length".Oh, I always gift them. Even when they act like money is the last thing on their mind and they weren't expecting it, I insist they take it. I just don't get involved in discussions about how much it's going to be, because even I don't know how much the date is going to be worth to me until after its all said and done.

They are always ecstatic with the gift and overall experience and eager to see me next time I'm in their area.

[BikeRider]

Oh, I always gift them. Even when they act like money is the last thing on their mind and they weren't expecting it, I insist they take it. I just don't get involved in discussions about how much it's going to be, because even I don't know how much the date is going to be worth to me until after its all said and done.

They are always ecstatic with the gift and overall experience and eager to see me next time I'm in their area.What's the range you typically gift then?

[JZLizard]

What's the range you typically gift then?My "target" for a SB is $200, but it can be more depending on circumstances, for example if she drove a long way to meet me, stays all night (multiple fucks), or just turns out to have such a great attitude that I'm inspired to help more. I place a value on how much time we spent together, how much I enjoyed the date overall, her performance / effort / vibe with me, then figure in things like her circumstances and cost of living in her geographical area, etc. And gift from there.

Strippers usually cost a little more for on the spot takeout, because they can fairly easily make a couple of hundred on a single lap dance customer, so sometimes a slightly larger carrot must be dangled.

[John HandCock]

Oh, I always gift them. Even when they act like money is the last thing on their mind and they weren't expecting it, I insist they take it. I just don't get involved in discussions about how much it's going to be, because even I don't know how much the date is going to be worth to me until after its all said and done.

They are always ecstatic with the gift and overall experience and eager to see me next time I'm in their area.Funny I've never found a girl from one of the arrangement sites that wasn't interested in what's in it for them before meeting or at the m / g. I find that if they know up front then experience is way better than if they are worried that the guy is to leave nothing or something they feel is appropriate. That is usually the first concern especially if new that some dude is going to fuck them for nothing. Most are here for financial help so that is there main concern starting off. Not sure where your findi g these gems of urs that aren't concerned by there arrangement and aren't expecting any but kudos.

I personally don't talk allowance until the m / g is over and I explain that when they contact me. But common sense dictates that girls needing help are concerned about what your doing for them. They can get fucked for free anywhere they choose and by who they choose. Lots of younger women that civy date older dudes for free but usually you don't find them on an arrangement site.

[FarFarAway]

Congrats! I'm not old enough yet to hit the 3 x club yet without going to jail, but the 2. 5 x club has been very very good to me.

You should be able to set it up with a gift card and your sugar email (or theirs). Just make sure and not let it run out while you still have her in the rotation!Thanks. Its kinda like golf. The older you get the easier it is to shoot your age. Another (anonymous) bowlbuddy who I've taunted (ha!) that he can't match my feats (legally) has been skating on thin ice that's been on earth a couple of years less than twenty. So, hey, for that, you only need to be 54.

Here's another relevant golf quote, don't know from who: Golf is a lot like sex, lots of people want to do it, most aren't very good at it, but they still enjoy it. The bowl has done wonders for my sex life; I recall some old monger posting that he's having the best sex of his life in his 60's, with women he couldn't have imagined fucking when he was their age. Roger that.

[FarFarAway]

In bed, I'm not overly focused on what I want to do, but equally focused on what it takes to get her off. That last sentence is what really saves you on the total gift amount and ensures future interest. Solve that problem and it really doesn't matter what you gift them in cash the next morning, they will continue texting you non stop for the next week about how over the top amazing it was and how they can't get it out of their mind.

If they feel like they are there solely to meet your needs, they will bill you for it. If you're meeting THEIR needs, they are way too busy enjoying the moment to to worry about they are getting paid.

In my case, the hotel room is overhead I would have had anyway from traveling, so it would be an expensive hobby if I rolled that into the mix, but since it needs to be paid whether or not I have a girl I don't figure it in to the total.Of course, I endorse this idea in any circumstance I am in bed with a woman, but I also recall a profile I saw on SA. Something like 'don't tell me you are going to pay me in orgasms' LOL. I know you, JL, believe strongly in a gift of some size to establish the hierarchy of the arrangement. But of course, it should be the case that a baby elated by the sex may be willing to take less to keep it coming. That seems like an ideal situation. My sample size is small so far, but I've never had a sense my babies were anything less than happy w / our sex, but that hasn't translated to a discount. Maybe I just need the right girl.

[JZLizard]

Funny I've never found a girl from one of the arrangement sites that wasn't interested in what's in it for them before meeting or at the m / g. I find that if they know up front then experience is way better than if they are worried that the guy is to leave nothing or something they feel is appropriate. That is usually the first concern especially if new that some dude is going to fuck them for nothing. Most are here for financial help so that is there main concern starting off. Not sure where your findi g these gems of urs that aren't concerned by there arrangement and aren't expecting any but kudos.Most of the girls probably are concerned about their arrangement I would imagine, and this of course is what lures them into the bowl to begin with. But what happens next depends on the players. A guy that never had much success in regular civy dating is going to have to get used to paying top dollar for pussy unless he is willing and able to either improve his game or lower his standards. I started working on my game at a very early age, so getting pussy has come easy for me pretty much my entire life. Getting what I want out of the bowl just plays upon that experience. Getting the girls to meet me without discussing money has everything to do with the conversation that takes place between the time I make initial contact with her and the actual date. Getting her into the FC has everything to do with the conversation that takes place at the M&G.

If you pay attention to some of the stuff getting posted here, you realize that the way I play in the bowl is unique. I have not seen a single poster here that has the same modus operandi, philosophies, approaches, or methodologies. Most are vastly different. Thus is stands to reason that those who do things different than me are going to encounter vastly different experiences. I wouldn't expect that someone would be able to just read my posts and go out and duplicate successes. I've been working on my game since I was probably 12-13 years old, and sexually active just as long. You learn a lot about women along a path started that young.



I personally don't talk allowance until the m / g is over and I explain that when they contact me. But common sense dictates that girls needing help are concerned about what your doing for them. They can get fucked for free anywhere they choose and by who they choose. Lots of younger women that civy date older dudes for free but usually you don't find them on an arrangement site.If they want to get fucked for free, they will with or without an arrangement with an SD, even if the SD thinks they are exclusive. But there are a lot of girls out there that have no desire, free or otherwise, to fuck a jobless kid who still lives with his parents. Women have been physically attracted to older men of higher financial status since the beginning of time, it's really not a new concept. Lots of girls join a SB website as a curiosity exercise, but what happens after they join varies greatly among SDs.

There are probably a lot more girls out there that insist on discussing money up front than those willing to do things my way. Part of my success involves identifying those time-wasters and firing them before they are hired. This allows me to use time more effectively and focus on those who are viable prospects.

[JZLizard]

Of course, I endorse this idea in any circumstance I am in bed with a woman, but I also recall a profile I saw on SA. Something like 'don't tell me you are going to pay me in orgasms' LOL. I know you, JL, believe strongly in a gift of some size to establish the hierarchy of the arrangement. But of course, it should be the case that a baby elated by the sex may be willing to take less to keep it coming. That seems like an ideal situation. My sample size is small so far, but I've never had a sense my babies were anything less than happy w / our sex, but that hasn't translated to a discount. Maybe I just need the right girl.The only way you could get a "discount" is if you already had an established agreed upon price. Once that number has been identified as an expectation, it is usually too late for me to save the situation.

So the situation you're describing is already very far outside the zone of how I do things. If I had a solution for you I would offer it here, but I don't. I just don't discuss price with them, so there is no expectation of payment for a certain amount and therefore logically impossible for a discount of any kind to exist. What is 50% of X, if X has not been defined? If price is agreed on then in my mind it's a loss and not worth saving.

My methods cannot really be selectively combined in piecemeal -- my strategy only works for me if I stick to all the key tenets, the first and most important one being that I don't talk money up front. If I tried to selectively choose the parts of my strategy I like (for example like not agreeing to a price), while ignoring other parts of my strategy (like busting my ass at the gym so that I look my best), it would all fall apart. It's an all-or-none deal.

Bottom line is, girls know when they take one look at you whether they want to fuck you or not. If they don't want to fuck you, compensation is going to have to happen some other way. By not talking money up front, I guarantee that I am meeting a girl that has at least some level of interest in me other than just money (or at least is open-minded enough to consider the bowl a dating scenario and not just an escort service by another name).

In terms of meeting the right girl for this, you have to be willing to let a few go for every one that will materialize into a date. This works well if you're the traveling sort because you're able to be patient about how many legitimate POTS you might have in a given city. For someone working out of a single geographic area, this might be more frustrating because of the opportunity lost in a smaller pool of choices (even one big city is not as large a pool as multiple cities). The fact that I can only play when I travel is also kind of a plus in this regard, because it places limitations on how much time I would have to meet anyway.

For example, if I chat up 10 girls, and 6-7 of those have to be immediately cast aside because they insist on talking allowance up front, and then maybe ultimately I have to narrow it down to 2-3 girls, it's not a problem for me, because it might be a long time before I'm in that city again. The next time I look for POTS it will be a completely new crop of girls and I can start all over again. If I were doing this full time in a single city, just cutting loose that first crop of six girls would probably be incredibly frustrating, but thankfully its a non issue.

It's also important to point out that the hunt is as much fun to me as the sex. That's why I enjoy the challenge of stripper takeout so much. I don't get that vibe from most others here, I feel like most SDs here want as much pussy as possible as cheap as possible. I actually like the challenge, it doesn't bother me to know when I walk in a strip club I am most likely going home alone, nor does it bother me to know that I'm probably going to have to spend 20 hours on an SD site for every hour of sex I actually obtain. I hate shooting fish in a barrel and I love a challenge. I want to weed out the easy girls that sell out for a certain amount. I want to limit my choices to the real gems, the hard to get, the ones that have some genuine attraction to me. Clearly that's not going to be every girl. Some will decide right off the bat I'm not their type, yes they might do it for money anyway, but I want the less traveled roads. I want the girls who decide I'm their type right away and their interest in me transcends payment.

[FarFarAway]

The only way you could get a "discount" is if you already had an established agreed upon price. Once that number has been identified as an expectation, it is usually too late for me to save the situation.

So the situation you're describing is already very far outside the zone of how I do things. If I had a solution for you I would offer it here, but I don't. I just don't discuss price with them, so there is no expectation of payment for a certain amount and therefore logically impossible for a discount of any kind to exist. What is 50% of X, if X has not been defined? If price is agreed on then in my mind it's a loss and not worth saving.

My methods cannot really be selectively combined in piecemeal -- my strategy only works for me if I stick to all the key tenets, the first and most important one being that I don't talk money up front. If I tried to selectively choose the parts of my strategy I like (for example like not agreeing to a price), while ignoring other parts of my strategy (like busting my ass at the gym so that I look my best), it would all fall apart. It's an all-or-none deal.

Bottom line is, girls know when they take one look at you whether they want to fuck you or not. If they don't want to fuck you, compensation is going to have to happen some other way. By not talking money up front, I guarantee that I am meeting a girl that has at least some level of interest in me other than just money (or at least is open-minded enough to consider the bowl a dating scenario and not just an escort service by another name).

In terms of meeting the right girl for this, you have to be willing to let a few go for every one that will materialize into a date. This works well if you're the traveling sort because you're able to be patient about how many legitimate POTS you might have in a given city. For someone working out of a single geographic area, this might be more frustrating because of the opportunity lost in a smaller pool of choices (even one big city is not as large a pool as multiple cities). The fact that I can only play when I travel is also kind of a plus in this regard, because it places limitations on how much time I would have to meet anyway.

For example, if I chat up 10 girls, and 6-7 of those have to be immediately cast aside because they insist on talking allowance up front, and then maybe ultimately I have to narrow it down to 2-3 girls, it's not a problem for me, because it might be a long time before I'm in that city again. The next time I look for POTS it will be a completely new crop of girls and I can start all over again. If I were doing this full time in a single city, just cutting loose that first crop of six girls would probably be incredibly frustrating, but thankfully its a non issue.

It's also important to point out that the hunt is as much fun to me as the sex. That's why I enjoy the challenge of stripper takeout so much. I don't get that vibe from most others here, I feel like most SDs here want as much pussy as possible as cheap as possible. I actually like the challenge, it doesn't bother me to know when I walk in a strip club I am most likely going home alone, nor does it bother me to know that I'm probably going to have to spend 20 hours on an SD site for every hour of sex I actually obtain. I hate shooting fish in a barrel and I love a challenge. I want to weed out the easy girls that sell out for a certain amount. I want to limit my choices to the real gems, the hard to get, the ones that have some genuine attraction to me. Clearly that's not going to be every girl. Some will decide right off the bat I'm not their type, yes they might do it for money anyway, but I want the less traveled roads. I want the girls who decide I'm their type right away and their interest in me transcends payment.I understand your unique approach, and yes it's not for all or even many of us. You're the Svengali of sugar. There are some lessons to be learned, and practiced. I think it is important to defer as long as possible the discussion of a specific amount. Once that # is out there, it 'anchors' negotiations. This is a well-known phenomena and applies to pricing anything from real estate to raspberries. The delay gives a greater opportunity for the POT to find something else about you she likes. A feeling of personal security she doesn't get from other guys, sexual chemistry, generosity towards children and small animals, fantastic taste in wine, whatever. That will make her agree to a lower allowance, or at least not be insulted if you start at economy. I know I have been offering too much, as I've never been turned down and had to negotiate up or let a girl walk. However, I am also a beauty snob, I have certain expectations for the attractiveness of my babies, and I don't expect them to be cheap just like I don't expect to buy a BMW cheap. Of course sometimes girls start at crazy numbers, b / c if you agree they win. My two current babies, OCHottie and OCCheer, I cut from 1/2 to 1/3 their initial ask. Note, however, that they might have believed I would be willing / able to pay that, otherwise they would never have agreed to M&G. My first, ModelMilf, made me name my number, and when she immediately agreed to it I knew I offered too much. Style-wise, I hate the pay-per-meet idea, b / c it feels too much like an escort, and that's not what I'm looking for (but other guys may not care about that). I want to see a girl repeatedly.

I'm taking OCCheer to the FC first time next week and she's a model - 10/10/? - Hollywood Guy says girls like her in Cali are getting offered thousands just to meet in their first week on the site. I broke the general rule not to give sugar to M&G, but guess what, she did meet me (and not all the other guys messaging her, and I didn't give her that, just a VS gift card) and she decided I was 'cool', so we go to the FC, and she wants PPM. She tried to anchor me with reports of a whale she dated who gave her $1 K / meet. Maybe, but she also described him unflatteringly. Needless to say, I can't afford that and offered a fraction (but w / a 'signing bonus' after the first time if we continue. I want to get into her at least once). If she's a dud in bed, well, I TOFTT, but it's only once. I like and use the HWG approach of saying that all sugar dating has multiple elements (name 5 or 6 including $ and sex) and the balance among them is different for different people. I know guys who help babies with their homework. Of course they should get a 'discount' for that.

I have a CL ad running in an inland county where sugar prices are more modest than on the coast, to try to make my limited access to cash last longer. Today I got a message w / a video attached of a hot 23 YO in lingerie. Stunning. She really knows nothing of SA and obviously hasn't been on the blogs where all the babies do what we are doing here. She started at PPM, and I pushed back through several iterations. She has already agreed to M&G and acknowledges that she 'doesn't know how this whole thing works'. I'll be all too happy to teach her how it works for me, and it might even be better for her than she imagined going in. I know it will be better for me.

BTW, I don't have my full photo on SA as it seems too risky for a married guy, but I try to get one to credible POTs early on to eliminate a lot of wasted time if she just can't see herself doing me. I mean, I'm a balding 60's. Not universally appealing, but enough to the right ones that I'm getting laid here. The babies are so phone oriented, not email oriented, I have learned about sending email messages to cell phones. I don't have my photo on my phone b / c it's not smart, and I also have to clean my photos of the EXIF data that could divulge personal info. So, they are only on my computer.

[IluvSmellyFish]

JHandcock, I got to say, my experience has been similar to yours. Most pots I meet want some sort of assurance that they are going to be taken care of financially. They can meet an older distinguished guy on Match. The purpose of SA is to find a guy who is willing to provide financial help. I've found a few exceptions to that rule, but those exceptions usually only exist in cases like HoyaSvnFgrs, or Bike Riders. What I mean here is that a pot on SA might be willing to date a guy with no discussion of allowance, but it's almost always only when the guy offers the possibility of a real relationship (I. E. Hoyasvnfgr) or long term spoiling with trips, gifts, and lavish dinners (I. E. Bikerider).

I've met more than my fair share of ladies in the bowl, and all of them either flat out refuse to do one time dates with guys who are passing through town, require a pay per date allowance that rivals the highest of high end escorts, or are utr / pros. The latter two sets will always require a discussion of allowance either before the m&g or shortly thereafter, but always before the fc.

Moreover, the pool of pots in the bowl is relatively limited. I've found that I've needed to take extended breaks (which is why I play other variants of the sugar bowl from time to time) because the pool gets stale. I think any player in the bowl realizes it's a numbers game. That being said, a semi decent looking hot baby who is on SA and doesn't require some sort of discussion of allowance before the fc is truly a rare find. A unicorn perhaps? Of course I guess some guys have all the luck and find these unicorns on a regular basis? Then again, it could just be that I lack any game.

But like you said, common sense dictates a lot of the rules we're all constrained by in the bowl. I always find it amusing when I'm asked to suspend my common sense.


Funny I've never found a girl from one of the arrangement sites that wasn't interested in what's in it for them before meeting or at the m / g. I find that if they know up front then experience is way better than if they are worried that the guy is to leave nothing or something they feel is appropriate. That is usually the first concern especially if new that some dude is going to fuck them for nothing. Most are here for financial help so that is there main concern starting off. Not sure where your findi g these gems of urs that aren't concerned by there arrangement and aren't expecting any but kudos.

I personally don't talk allowance until the m / g is over and I explain that when they contact me. But common sense dictates that girls needing help are concerned about what your doing for them. They can get fucked for free anywhere they choose and by who they choose. Lots of younger women that civy date older dudes for free but usually you don't find them on an arrangement site.

[FarFarAway]

JHandcock, I got to say, my experience has been similar to yours. Most pots I meet want some sort of assurance that they are going to be taken care of financially. They can meet an older distinguished guy on Match. The purpose of SA is to find a guy who is willing to provide financial help. I've found a few exceptions to that rule, but those exceptions usually only exist in cases like HoyaSvnFgrs, or Bike Riders. What I mean here is that a pot on SA might be willing to date a guy with no discussion of allowance, but it's almost always only when the guy offers the possibility of a real relationship (I. E. Hoyasvnfgr) or long term spoiling with trips, gifts, and lavish dinners (I. E. Bikerider).

I've met more than my fair share of ladies in the bowl, and all of them either flat out refuse to do one time dates with guys who are passing through town, require a pay per date allowance that rivals the highest of high end escorts, or are utr / pros. The latter two sets will always require a discussion of allowance either before the m&g or shortly thereafter, but always before the fc.

Moreover, the pool of pots in the bowl is relatively limited. I've found that I've needed to take extended breaks (which is why I play other variants of the sugar bowl from time to time) because the pool gets stale. I think any player in the bowl realizes it's a numbers game. That being said, a semi decent looking hot baby who is on SA and doesn't require some sort of discussion of allowance before the fc is truly a rare find. A unicorn perhaps? Of course I guess some guys have all the luck and find these unicorns on a regular basis? Then again, it could just be that I lack any game.

But like you said, common sense dictates a lot of the rules we're all constrained by in the bowl. I always find it amusing when I'm asked to suspend my common sense.Agreed, Fish. This thread is a mix of a lot of stuff, including a brag sheet + mutual assistance / advice. I don't mind hearing about other's success and escapades, b / c sometimes there's a lesson in there for me. I also appreciate the genuine support I get (just got, in fact) from my bowl brothers on my own successes. It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.

[MesirLancelot]

Not from Rva, but close in Va. Thinking about sa and am gleaning info! Close to getting out of SO situation, but still like the venue of sa. Thanks for differing views! Cheers!

[TravelinSD]

I notice SA has raised it's prices since I upgraded last time. I have to hand it to this guy, he's developed a gold mine.

[Ltnric]

So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.

[JZLizard]

So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.All I can say is that yes, "dating" them is the key to paying little or none. Just be careful about sharing such taboo subjects on net forums, because some folks will be unable to contain their jealousy and attempt to undermine your credibility in hopes of somehow making your life as sad and miserable as theirs. They will fumble around in their own disbelief that such things can actually occur! Blashpemy! How that can be? It doesn't happen to them, therefore it cannot possibly happen to anyone else. Their only recourse is to attempt to focus their attention on YOUR life, studying you and hoping to find things wrong in your every thought, ignoring their own problems, adding underhanded references to you in Every. Single. Post (tm). And why shouldn't their behavior be a pathetic reflection of their pathetic lives? Its who they are. StalkerFanBoi behavior is deeply rooted in their own insecurity, they wear it on their sleeve. Every time the doctor backs off slightly on their psycho-meds or switches them to a new one, we can expect similarly erratic behaviors.

That said, most of the SBs I am involved with involves some form of dating. I go out clubbing and dancing with them, even though I don't necessarily want to in every case. More than once I've sat there in a club table with people 20-30 years younger than me, smiling and pretending that I wouldn't rather be somewhere else, just to be sure I was giving her the night out on the town she was looking for. I don't blink when she orders one expensive mixed drink, takes four sips of it then discards and orders something else. It's not my preference but it pays off in the sense that after she is properly fucked, she is way more focused more on how much fun she had than how much cash she's going to have in her purse later. Its a different way of sugaring than just scurrying them off to a hotel room for an hour or so of paid sex, but it pays big dividends overall in terms of the cash you give her or at least her expectations for same. And overall I do sometimes enjoy the dating aspect, aside from the occasional times when I'm forced to socialize with her friends from high school or whatever. It's not too bad at my current age because I still look a lot younger than I am. When I'm 70 that might get pretty awkward, maybe I will have outgrown this phase by then. I swear to god I think it's becoming more and more accepted by that age group for the girls to have boyfriends older than their dads. Their friends don't seem to blink an eye. Maybe they've got them too?

[JZLizard]

It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.

[IluvSmellyFish]

We are on the same page brother. Its why I don't write about my ability to grow a second Penis on demand, which generally makes the pots panties drop. After a fc session with me, I try to gift them, but they often regift my allowance back to me. I know it's a gift I've been born with, perhaps one I've mastered over the years. Other brothers can't recreate it, but I'll share my experiences, because I'm a stand up guy.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Like you FFA, I see this board as a means of sharing helpful advice, furthering the discussion of the bowl, and learning about others tactics to see if I can incorporate them into my game.

I don't mind the brag stories since I have told my fair share. Where else can we find an outlet? Not like you can talk about the 20 year old who let you cum in her ass with your brother in law or the team you're supervising on some project.

This board used to be a place where you could ask a question and get great advice. Let's get back there.


Agreed, Fish. This thread is a mix of a lot of stuff, including a brag sheet + mutual assistance / advice. I don't mind
hearing about other's success and escapades, b / c sometimes there's a lesson in there for me. I also appreciate the genuine support I get (just got, in fact) from my bowl brothers on my own successes. It might be helpful, however, to limit references to those traits / strategies (like a 24" pianist, if you recall that old joke) that are unique to a particular SD.

[FarFarAway]

I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.

For someone like me not naturally dominant, this knowledge has been helpful. I should look for it in POTs and try to play into their interest if I see it, or soft-pedal it if I don't want to go there. For you pros this may seem lame, but I did a test w / a recent baby in the FC, at one point instructing her to stand up, and then sternly commanded (but w / a smile on my face so she wouldn't be offended if she wasn't into dominance / submission games) 'panties on the floor'. I'd guess I'd get some kind of good reaction to that if she was interested in submission.

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.

[FarFarAway]

I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.My mama taught me manners, JL.

[Enzo Amore]

I am just going to sit back and see if she texts me again, I doubt it. She was rather pretty and getting to much "big money talk" from some of those guys. She said "no other guy had a problem with $1200+ per month (in the pre-arrangement talks)". So she will either find her white whale or get burned somehow like I told her by these "big talk guys".

I honestly met only one cool girl that I enjoy spending time with A to Z. I have to tell myself in one way or another, ALL of these girls have problems one way or another. They are NOT normal (atleast the ones I talked to). Most have money problems, then mental problems, then family problems. It's really a second job for me to weed out the ones with too much baggage for me.


I think that's perhaps the most polite way of telling someone to learn to get over their obsession that I've witnessed yet on this forum.

If there's a lesson to be learned from this most recent exchange, I think it is that if someone randomly solicits opinions/advice from the readership (as Enzo did in this case), it is not up to each of us to evaluate, judge, and question the advice he receives from those who tried to contribute to the question and provide their opinion. We have to take individual experiences for what they are and put aside tunnel vision that all of our experiences should align in unison with each other. They just never will, people play the game different way and thus their mileage varies.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Lntric, I definitely agree with you about higher costs, but think that for the most part, you get better service. A few rotations ago, I incorporated a former BP girl into my rotation. She didn't know that I knew she was a former BP girl, but her phone linked to BP ads up and down the east coast. There were higher costs in that I brought a bottle of vodka to our dinner m&g at a byob restaurant, took her out to dinner. When the m&g was coming to an end, she was talking about a per date allowance that was double her hourly BP rate. If I had agreed to it, I would have basically shelled out triple what I would have shelled out had I been a BP client. Of course since I did my research prior, I had already set the allowance ceiling in my mind at what her BP rate was based on her ads from a few months back.

When we finalised discussion of allowance I told her that I normally start at what her BP rate had been and we were off to the fc. I covered the cost of the motel as well. In total, after all costs were factored in, I shelled out double what I would have paid had I simply contacted her off BP.

That being said, she was no longer on BP so that wasn't an option. More importantly, the fc session was hands down better than what I have ever had with a BP girl. The end damage was also less than what I would've shelled out with the tradional college coed sb, who would expect to stay at a premium hotel, and would've insisted on going to a much higher end restaurant. I also found a cheap motel in her area that I've shared with brothers like FTP. Unfortunately most other sbs have simply flat out refused to go there out of fear of bedbugs - which I find odd since they don't seem to be afraid of HIV/AIDS. Go figure?

Not sure how this would translate from a service perspective to a higher end provider, since I've found many of them in general to be good at pretending to like me in general (if they do or not, who knows?) To the extent some hobbyists actually do take escorts out to dinner and functions, and pay an hourly rate on top of expenses, I assume it would be less expensive to find a sb instead.

At the end of the day though, it sounds cheesy, but the bowl does allow you to see if you have a connection with a pot. I'm no longer in my prime where seeing a hot spinner naked gets me hard. I need to feel like the girl I'm banging actually likes me. I've found that the higher end providers are better at pretending while a sb / pot generally won't pretend unless she is a utr / pro.


So without going into too much detail I saw a profile with pics of a provider I have seen several times. I reached out to this person to see how different the experience would between a provider vs. SB. Well not really sure there was much of a difference. She wanted the same price as she charges as a provider. When I asked what was the difference said that we would go out on a date, dinner and anything. However she expected to go to the FC every time we met. So basically it is the same a provider but spending more money on them because of the actual date. What do you all think? You spend more money in this situation. For me part of the fun of a SB is going on dates. Sometimes the dates are just that with no visit to the FC until you work up to that point. I've had SB who spent the night and I didn't pay anything. Just curious as to what some of you think about this.

[IluvSmellyFish]

I'm waiting for the ipo. Brandon Wade owes a big cut of his profits to Jackson though. If it weren't for this forum, all SA would have is the mindless drivel of the reddit blogs.


I notice SA has raised it's prices since I upgraded last time. I have to hand it to this guy, he's developed a gold mine.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Reminds me of a tip HWG posted on this forum years back when I was finding my own way in the bowl.

If you can get someone to say "yes" to something, they're more likely to agree to each successive request. Start out small, then go big. It's a simple sales technique, but hard to implement if you don't want to come off like a used car salesman.

I bet guys who are in sales and trial attorneys do pretty well for themselves in the bowl.


I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.

For someone like me not naturally dominant, this knowledge has been helpful. I should look for it in POTs and try to play into their interest if I see it, or soft-pedal it if I don't want to go there. For you pros this may seem lame, but I did a test w / a recent baby in the FC, at one point instructing her to stand up, and then sternly commanded (but w / a smile on my face so she wouldn't be offended if she wasn't into dominance / submission games) 'panties on the floor'. I'd guess I'd get some kind of good reaction to that if she was interested in submission.

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.

[JZLizard]

My mama taught me manners, JL.When I was in middle school, my girlfriend's parents found her diary which among other things described coming to my house and getting screwed in my bedroom. Her livid parents called mine to complain, and at some point during that shit-fight my mother gave me advice that I still remember today but have consistently failed to heed. She claimed nice girls don't do oral sex. I ignored her warning and felt sorry for my dad ever since.

She probably told me to be polite at some point, too. I don't remember.

[DrMcNaughty]

We are on the same page brother. Its why I don't write about my ability to grow a second Penis on demand, which generally makes the pots panties drop. After a fc session with me, I try to gift them, but they often regift my allowance back to me. I know it's a gift I've been born with, perhaps one I've mastered over the years. Other brothers can't recreate it, but I'll share my experiences, because I'm a stand up guy.

Sorry for the sarcasm. Like you FFA, I see this board as a means of sharing helpful advice, furthering the discussion of the bowl, and learning about others tactics to see if I can incorporate them into my game.

I don't mind the brag stories since I have told my fair share. Where else can we find an outlet? Not like you can talk about the 20 year old who let you cum in her ass with your brother in law or the team you're supervising on some project.

This board used to be a place where you could ask a question and get great advice. Let's get back there.Woooohooo bravo!

[JZLizard]

I am just going to sit back and see if she texts me again, I doubt it. She was rather pretty and getting to much "big money talk" from some of those guys. She said "no other guy had a problem with $1200+ per month (in the pre-arrangement talks)". So she will either find her white whale or get burned somehow like I told her by these "big talk guys".

I honestly met only one cool girl that I enjoy spending time with A to Z. I have to tell myself in one way or another, ALL of these girls have problems one way or another. They are NOT normal (atleast the ones I talked to). Most have money problems, then mental problems, then family problems. It's really a second job for me to weed out the ones with too much baggage for me.All of the SBs I've known (and large percent of strictly civy girls) have daddy issues to some degree. This is not to say that all girls that are found on SB sites do, but the type that I meet do, without fail.

As far as money problems, I think all girls in the typical SB age bracket are going to have money problems simply because of where they are in life career-wise, versus their spending wants and needs. And I'm not sure that necessarily goes away with career success, I've known a few with very well paying jobs but of course they will tell you its not enough. The question is, what does "not enough" mean? Not enough to survive? To put food on the table? To keep the lights on? Or not enough to afford Christian Louboutin shoes in every possible style and color? Upon further analysis, it's almost always something like the latter. But then again, if someone asked me if I have enough money I would say not enough to feel like I should stop trying to earn it. Do any of us really ever have enough?

[BikeRider]

I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for.

...

I also want to endorse JL's principle that there should always be a gift b / c there is no such thing as free pussy. Pay for it with $, or with other things you may not be so able to part with. The idea here reminds me of cold war spy games, where key people in the intelligence community were being targeted to be 'turned' in a moment of weakness. To accept something illicit. Drugs, money, sex, status. From the other side, and once they had been compromised in that way, they were led down the rabbit hole into betraying their country. This is why I think principles of gifting are important. If you take that short term view that 'if I give this POT $ at the M&G, that is sugar down the drain and I didn't get anything for it,' you are missing the point. She has accepted money with the intention to eventually go to the FC w / you (provided you believe that, and she's not just rinsing you) - she's taken the first bite of the apple. She is moving tangibly toward accepting $ for sex, a transaction that is illicit in our society and something most wouldn't like to be public. And *you* know her secret. This gives you a lot of power. She likes the $ of course. That's the whole reason she has put herself into this position. She has taken a small amount and begins to think how nice it would be to have larger amounts. This is all about the grooming of a prospect. Other daddies here have offered other techniques they use to groom them, but given the universal aspect of sugar in the bowl, this should work on most. I like to 'date' SBs because I like to date them, before the FC, but also b / c that time spent w / me makes her (and me) more at ease with the relationship and it is more likely to be consummated. I am putting out $ for them on the date to show them I have assets (in that sense no different from civi dating). But she sees that $ being expended on her behalf, and again it builds a sense of obligation. This is what you want to get her to the FC.I agree that we're likely fishing for different types of babies. I reflected on the type of baby I seek, and I realized that I always ask two questions. I ask them if they've dated an older guy previously. I do this to see if there can be a genuine attraction, or are they just seeking $$. The second question I ask is why they've joined SA. Every now and then I get an answer along the lines of "I'm very busy, and I'm tired of dating guys in my age range. They want me to go dutch etc. Etc. ". In other words, they want to wine and dined, and not worry about being stuck with the check nor making the plans. These babies aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the experience. I wouldn't say they're Unicorns, but they are hard to find. You just have to vet properly. As JZ said, you have to be willing to walk away from those that don't match.

I'm not sure I'd agree on your recruitment analogy. There are plenty of stories on this fine forum about guys gifting at the M&G without a trip to the FC and the baby subsequently disappears. The difference is that most M&G are anonymous meetings whereas a recruitment works because the target is well known and afraid of black mail. Babies (in most cases) don't have that fear.

[FarFarAway]

I agree that we're likely fishing for different types of babies. I reflected on the type of baby I seek, and I realized that I always ask two questions. I ask them if they've dated an older guy previously. I do this to see if there can be a genuine attraction, or are they just seeking $$. The second question I ask is why they've joined SA. Every now and then I get an answer along the lines of "I'm very busy, and I'm tired of dating guys in my age range. They want me to go dutch etc. Etc. ". In other words, they want to wine and dined, and not worry about being stuck with the check nor making the plans. These babies aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the experience. I wouldn't say they're Unicorns, but they are hard to find. You just have to vet properly. As JZ said, you have to be willing to walk away from those that don't match.

I'm not sure I'd agree on your recruitment analogy. There are plenty of stories on this fine forum about guys gifting at the M&G without a trip to the FC and the baby subsequently disappears. The difference is that most M&G are anonymous meetings whereas a recruitment works because the target is well known and afraid of black mail. Babies (in most cases) don't have that fear.To me the key is whether I gift them or if they ask for it to meet. In the latter case, I'd be much less willing. I cancelled a M&G from a POT I really wanted to meet and had intended to give what I now realize was a ridiculous $ when, just before it was supposed to happen, she asked me for an even more ridiculous amount. My baby I just posted about taking to the FC. I used intel to find her FB, and learned she loves a particular kind of makeup. At the M&G I (unexpectedly for her) gave her a gift card for that exact makeup. She melted.

Your first question for POTs is very pertinent and I will use that. Your second point doesn't apply much to us married guys, b / c it can be hard to wine and dine with evening dinners when you have a SO expecting you home.

[JZLizard]

I'll make the observation that I don't think that there are huge differences in the way SDs posting here are approaching or compensating their babies. Part of the difference may be the types of girls we are fishing for. I have come to realize from this thread that a lot of SBs are submissive and a lot of SDs dominant. What fits in better with that than refusing to tell the baby what she's going to get? Actually, it reflects more of a desire to control than to dominate, which are different things with a similar flavor.I think you're probably misunderstanding what takes place with the SBs I see. The ones I end up with don't even ask how much they are going to get, so it's not like I'm putting them in some subservient role by not telling them.

Anyone who understands ANYTHING about women will be able to relate to the following truism: Girls can be interested in dating you, or they can be interested in having their hands in your pockets. In sugar dating, at the level of initial expectation, it is usually somewhere in between.

So, the more you can filter out the girls you approach to those who might be able to picture themselves on your arm as more than a paid sex toy, the better off your chances are at encountering babies that don't care as much about sugar. When they don't care as much about sugar, they express this by not bringing up the subject. They are afraid to lose the get the chance to know you.

Very clearly, not all women want to get to know me. Hell, I've had some that flat out said "sorry, you're too old and not really my type". I love to hear that because it means very quickly I can place her in the ignore bin and move on to the next. The faster I can repeat that process, the faster I can line up POTS that do have some genuine attraction to me. I never send them fake pictures, nor do I send them "optimistic" photos where I took 1,000 pics then chose the best 3. I send them photos of me in ordinary situations doing ordinary things. If I don't get a positive response to my photo, I'm already a bit suspicious of whether she even has the potential to be the kind of SB I am looking for.

I can compare their initial response to my photos and benchmark it against how a civy prospect on match would behave. Is it similar? Or is she just trying to cater to my horny sensibilities? I've talked a lot about the value of interacting with strippers. They are an excellent workout for learning to deal with women who are professionals at catering to the male ego. Once you've learned all of their tricks, it's easier to pluck prime fruit from the trees of the bowl.

What I think so many people forget here, is how big the pool of women really is. Does anyone else out there have 75+ different city searches saved in their SA account? I do. They aren't all unique cities, there are duplicate cities but there are variations for each city, with variations refining by race, height, body type, etc. Once you start working that many saved searches, you start to realize how much bigger the scene is than the typical SD perspective.

I would say that the girls I actually interact with and even exchange enough texts / mail with to line up meets do not even represent .5% of the total variations of personality combinations out there. Meaning, there are a lot of girls I never contact. Of the girls I do contact, there are a lot that never respond. Of the ones that do respond, there are a lot that disappoint me by attempting to talk about agreed on amounts up front, or exhibit signs of UTRs, or force me to reject further interaction with them for some other reason.

What this ultimately leads to is that the girls that I actually do take to the fuck chamber end up being an even smaller personality sample size than the .5% that I made a valid pass at. Once it's all filtered down, I'm looking for just a few decent girls in any given metro area. It takes a lot of work to get there but it narrows my girls down to a fraction of a percent of the representative female website population. Are they unicorns? It might seem that way if one is working a single city, or worse a small town. Try opening it up to dozens of cities and you'll find there are a shitload of these unicorns if you're willing to put in the effort and time and know how to attract that type of girl.

So now, anyone who has sat back and said "why am I not meeting these girls"? Its probably because they going after the girls that are not in that fraction of a percent. Their own personal preferences, biases, filtering mechanisms, etc. Have conditioned and tailored the results according to their own way of doing things, their biases, their perceptions, their dating habits. I've read most of the SB blogs in other cities here, and I've seen guys posts pics and SA profile names. Not one single time have I seen a girl I knew mentioned, on the Richmond board or any other city that I sugar date in. Most of these girls that have multiple daddies that know them are by my definition UTR girls. They are not interested in meeting potential boyfriends. Most of the girls I meet are -- at least that's the vibe they give off.

What I do know is that there have been plenty of guys post here, even if they may not post regularly, that have had similar experiences to mine -- girls that are looking for something beyond a quick tryst in a hotel room and are hoping it will turn into something other than a money exchange. It's really not as unique, or complicated, or sinister, or hard to believe as some here would like to make it out. There have been at least 7-8 guys posting here in recent months with similar experiences.

For those who are saying "these girls would never fuck me unless I pay them", the problem is most likely that you are aiming out of your own league. You have 3 choices there, either lower your standards, better yourself, or just resign to the fact that pussy will need to be paid for in cash.

Most of the tips that I've posted in the past are aimed at those who either feel like they're paying too much or want more genuine interest from girls, and are interested in bettering themselves. Clearly they aren't for everyone. Some don't have the time, self-motivation, or even the belief that they could be better. They say the first challenge to making change successfully is to be able to envision yourself after the proposed improvements you'd like to make. If some of these resentful posters cannot picture themselves as anything but a lost cause, they are never going to be able to break out of it and should just get used to the fact that its pay for play or none at all in their case.

[JZLizard]

I agree that we're likely fishing for different types of babies. I reflected on the type of baby I seek, and I realized that I always ask two questions. I ask them if they've dated an older guy previously. I do this to see if there can be a genuine attraction, or are they just seeking $$. The second question I ask is why they've joined SA. Every now and then I get an answer along the lines of "I'm very busy, and I'm tired of dating guys in my age range. They want me to go dutch etc. Etc. ". In other words, they want to wine and dined, and not worry about being stuck with the check nor making the plans. These babies aren't in it for the money. They're in it for the experience. I wouldn't say they're Unicorns, but they are hard to find. You just have to vet properly. As JZ said, you have to be willing to walk away from those that don't match.

I'm not sure I'd agree on your recruitment analogy. There are plenty of stories on this fine forum about guys gifting at the M&G without a trip to the FC and the baby subsequently disappears. The difference is that most M&G are anonymous meetings whereas a recruitment works because the target is well known and afraid of black mail. Babies (in most cases) don't have that fear.Not only this, but I'd say the number of guys over the years that have posted positive results from upfront payments are overshadowed by negative experiences on a ratio of somewhere between 5:1 and 10:1. The golden rule about no payment until after the panties drop became mantra here for a reason.

[FarFarAway]

Not only this, but I'd say the number of guys over the years that have posted positive results from upfront payments are overshadowed by negative experiences on a ratio of somewhere between 5:1 and 10:1. The golden rule about no payment until after the panties drop became mantra here for a reason.Maybe it's just the liberal women in California. Or the heights I've been aiming for in girls. I don't aim to be duped, and I haven't done perfectly, but it's been allright. My very first meet I tried to help her too much and that was a bust, but otherwise I've not had anyone who got any gift at the M&G not go to the FC. A red daddy wants assurance that every dime he pays comes back to him in pussy. A blue daddy is playing the odds, evaluating the prospects, and giving a gift when it seems likely it is going to pay off. Often, I have also used intel to identify the girl, so she is not totally anonymous. But I don't know how that helps me. Other than knowing the thing to give her that touches her personally. Certainly not so I can track her down and ask for sugar back if she didn't fuck me. That's not the point. I gave that to her of my own volition. I could hit a cold streak of course. The videogirl (another Playboy model) I met this morning got a little sugar and has asked for an allowance of 2. 5 K / mo. That can't happen w / me, but I am 99% sure I can get into her pants w / a PPM, her initial proposal. After that, who knows.

[Enzo Amore]

Everything was cool. I left and on the way home, she texts nice things then asks if I want to do an arrangement. It gets down to "I don't sleep with with strangers sorry" so my reply was "I don't give money to strangers, sorry".

I also said I am not interested in a girl who wants a money grab. My tactics sort of worked. We will see. I think I am going to probably forget this one.

[FarFarAway]

I responded to a married woman's post on CL. Had some decent exchanges, she sent a partial photo, not really my type. I was also playing with SA POTs and told her that I was going in a different direction. She gets herself a SA profile, which I see as it is new. I am deactivated there a lot of the time but evidently while I was on she saw my profile and put 2 and 2 together. Initially, 'why don't you like me?' I replied I wasn't interested in what she was. She starts sending me irate emails. Then she says that I am a creep, etc. , threatens me by saying I am easy to find. I don't believe that to be the case. I never gave her a phone # and would have been my sugar burner. I got onto SA and both blocked her and reported her (the closest I could find was 'threatening violence' Didn't exactly do that but threatening? - hell yes. Watch out out there. The internet. What a place.

[JZLizard]

Maybe it's just the liberal women in California. Or the heights I've been aiming for in girls. I don't aim to be duped, and I haven't done perfectly, but it's been allright. My very first meet I tried to help her too much and that was a bust, but otherwise I've not had anyone who got any gift at the M&G not go to the FC. A red daddy wants assurance that every dime he pays comes back to him in pussy. A blue daddy is playing the odds, evaluating the prospects, and giving a gift when it seems likely it is going to pay off. Often, I have also used intel to identify the girl, so she is not totally anonymous. But I don't know how that helps me. Other than knowing the thing to give her that touches her personally. Certainly not so I can track her down and ask for sugar back if she didn't fuck me. That's not the point. I gave that to her of my own volition. I could hit a cold streak of course. The videogirl (another Playboy model) I met this morning got a little sugar and has asked for an allowance of 2. 5 K / mo. That can't happen w / me, but I am 99% sure I can get into her pants w / a PPM, her initial proposal. After that, who knows. The bowl couldn't have less in the world to do with politics. So please, don't bring that into the forum. Folks have tried it before. Completely off topic for sugaring.

[JZLizard]

I responded to a married woman's post on CL. Had some decent exchanges, she sent a partial photo, not really my type. I was also playing with SA POTs and told her that I was going in a different direction. She gets herself a SA profile, which I see as it is new. I am deactivated there a lot of the time but evidently while I was on she saw my profile and put 2 and 2 together. Initially, 'why don't you like me?' I replied I wasn't interested in what she was. She starts sending me irate emails. Then she says that I am a creep, etc. , threatens me by saying I am easy to find. I don't believe that to be the case. I never gave her a phone # and would have been my sugar burner. I got onto SA and both blocked her and reported her (the closest I could find was 'threatening violence' Didn't exactly do that but threatening? - hell yes. Watch out out there. The internet. What a place.Some of them are just plain nuts. If they were hot, emotionally stable and intelligent all at the same time they wouldn't be on an SB site to begin with.

[Large Ess]

All I can say is that yes, "dating" them is the key to paying little or none. Just be careful about sharing such taboo subjects on net forums, because some folks will be unable to contain their jealousy and attempt to undermine your credibility in hopes of somehow making your life as sad and miserable as theirs. They will fumble around in their own disbelief that such things can actually occur! Blashpemy! How that can be? It doesn't happen to them, therefore it cannot possibly happen to anyone else. Their only recourse is to attempt to focus their attention on YOUR life, studying you and hoping to find things wrong in your every thought, ignoring their own problems, adding underhanded references to you in Every. Single. Post (tm). And why shouldn't their behavior be a pathetic reflection of their pathetic lives? Its who they are. StalkerFanBoi behavior is deeply rooted in their own insecurity, they wear it on their sleeve. Every time the doctor backs off slightly on their psycho-meds or switches them to a new one, we can expect similarly erratic behaviors.

That said, most of the SBs I am involved with involves some form of dating. I go out clubbing and dancing with them, even though I don't necessarily want to in every case. More than once I've sat there in a club table with people 20-30 years younger than me, smiling and pretending that I wouldn't rather be somewhere else, just to be sure I was giving her the night out on the town she was looking for. I don't blink when she orders one expensive mixed drink, takes four sips of it then discards and orders something else. It's not my preference but it pays off in the sense that after she is properly fucked, she is way more focused more on how much fun she had than how much cash she's going to have in her purse later. Its a different way of sugaring than just scurrying them off to a hotel room for an hour or so of paid sex, but it pays big dividends overall in terms of the cash you give her or at least her expectations for same. And overall I do sometimes enjoy the dating aspect, aside from the occasional times when I'm forced to socialize with her friends from high school or whatever. It's not too bad at my current age because I still look a lot younger than I am. When I'm 70 that might get pretty awkward, maybe I will have outgrown this phase by then. I swear to god I think it's becoming more and more accepted by that age group for the girls to have boyfriends older than their dads. Their friends don't seem to blink an eye. Maybe they've got them too?I have found this to be very true out here in LA. The majority of the SB's I look for are young and inexperienced in terms of life experience and they only thing they have spent time on is sex. On more than one occasion I have said to my date, "Order whatever you want. " and they have ordered something very simple. It's the opportunity to able to order anything they want that excites them but they are still intimidated, young, and want to be liked that will keep them from taking you for a ride. Now, I am talking about a certain type. These aren't 10's. Although I did have one incredible afternoon with a gorgeous AF with a body that was mind blowing basically because I bought her a nice, (not crazy expensive) lunch. She wised up after, but so what, that is her choice. She had fun and I had fun and she realized she could get more $ from someone else. Good for her.

[JZLizard]

I have found this to be very true out here in LA. The majority of the SB's I look for are young and inexperienced in terms of life experience and they only thing they have spent time on is sex. On more than one occasion I have said to my date, "Order whatever you want. " and they have ordered something very simple. It's the opportunity to able to order anything they want that excites them but they are still intimidated, young, and want to be liked that will keep them from taking you for a ride. Now, I am talking about a certain type. These aren't 10's. Although I did have one incredible afternoon with a gorgeous AF with a body that was mind blowing basically because I bought her a nice, (not crazy expensive) lunch. She wised up after, but so what, that is her choice. She had fun and I had fun and she realized she could get more $ from someone else. Good for her.I too take the "order whatever you want" attitude. Most of these girls I plan for meet for a "night out", and by that I mean I want her to have a good time starting from the first hello and hug until the kiss goodbye the next morning.

Some of the younger ones are so amazed both that they are able to indulge without rules and from the level of sexual activity they receive that they are just star struck about the whole event, texting me for the next week about how they can't get me out of their mind. Those are the girls I like -- it indicates the young and (relatively) innocent.

There are other girls who will tell me flat out "listen I don't need to go to expensive places, I need someone who can help me financially". And those girls get silence from me after I identify who and what they are, because they are a dime a dozen. They don't even think about the fact that an established SD has a price on his own time, in my case the billable hourly rate to my clients is a lot more than an escort would charge a john. The riffraff girls do not value my time and understand that it is a shared endeavor, they only think about what THEY will get out of it in terms of cash allowance. This is why I discard the rats and search for the diamonds even if it takes longer.

I could write back and say "sorry I'm looking for quality girls not Internet sex site roadkill" but there's no real benefit of doing that so I refrain.

[BikeRider]

Some of them are just plain nuts. If they were hot, emotionally stable and intelligent all at the same time they wouldn't be on an SB site to begin with.There are exceptions to every rule. My peds baby is all of that. She was on SA to meet a guy that would treat her with respect, understand that she works insane hours, and have the means to wine and dine her. She tried the traditional online sites, but she said she only met losers and posers.

I won't argue that she's a unicorn. She is. Just that there are exceptions.

[JZLizard]

There are exceptions to every rule. My peds baby is all of that. She was on SA to meet a guy that would treat her with respect, understand that she works insane hours, and have the means to wine and dine her. She tried the traditional online sites, but she said she only met losers and posers.

I won't argue that she's a unicorn. She is. Just that there are exceptions.I have no doubt met lots of hot ones, some that are hot and smart, and there have been a few that *struck* me as being emotionally stable people. But, even in talking to them about my perception of them, they usually start to reveal things like "oh, you haven't seen me when things get really bad yet", and proceed to tell me about the dark side of their temper or whatever.

Admittedly, my experience may be limited here because I have never LIVED with a sugar baby. But I know one thing, you have to live with them to be able to fully judge if they are an emotionally stable person or not. If you have not been in the same dwelling with them full time through at least 6 menstrual cycles, you don't quite know them yet.

Honestly I've known guys who have been with their wives for 10+ years and did not really get introduced to the full spectrum of their emotional instability until divorce proceedings began.

But yes, I understand what you're saying. My generalization was not necessarily fair, in the sense that it can only possibly be applied to the women I've met on SB sites, and as I pointed out in another message, the women known by one SD is not necessarily representative of all of them. To further complicate matters, terms like "hot", "smart" and "stable" are also subjective in nature and a matter of individual opinion.

[FarFarAway]

The bowl couldn't have less in the world to do with politics. So please, don't bring that into the forum. Folks have tried it before. Completely off topic for sugaring.Peace, JL. Figuratively speaking.

[TravelinSD]

In my perusing of Tinder and CL I've run across the scam of sending you to a verification site a bunch of times. This was the first time I've seen it on SA and seemed to be for SA's background verification. There were several strange things about her profile. Her ethnicity was listed as Native American, but her pic is a pale white blonde. Her profile talks about looking for a long term relationship, but her first message is asking me to get together to be an "nsa sex buddy" at a luxury hotel she's staying at. That's always a red flag for a scammer. The 3rd tip off is that her grammar was just a touch awkward with strange phrasing of things. Anyway, she of course says to meet I have to get SA's LDS (Local Discreet Stamp of SA). I do notice that SA's background check is with a 3rd party company. Perhaps that company is placing false profiles to scam people into the service.

Good hunting,

Travelin.

[FarFarAway]

I have found this to be very true out here in LA. The majority of the SB's I look for are young and inexperienced in terms of life experience and they only thing they have spent time on is sex. On more than one occasion I have said to my date, "Order whatever you want. " and they have ordered something very simple. It's the opportunity to able to order anything they want that excites them but they are still intimidated, young, and want to be liked that will keep them from taking you for a ride. Now, I am talking about a certain type. These aren't 10's. Although I did have one incredible afternoon with a gorgeous AF with a body that was mind blowing basically because I bought her a nice, (not crazy expensive) lunch. She wised up after, but so what, that is her choice. She had fun and I had fun and she realized she could get more $ from someone else. Good for her.LS. I would have PMed you with this?, but your mailbox is full. I wondered what that AF acronym was. Asian female, or a typo. I'd also appreciate gleaning from your local knowledge, as you are in near and I am relatively new, so I will review all your old posts.

I M&G w / a girl today w / a 213 area code. Found her from my CL ad. She is now setting up a studio girls can do webcams from. I found one of her ads for girls and it says she was a performer for 6 years. Very pretty, bangin' body, smart, business oriented. I am trying to track down if she was / is someone that whole webcam community knows about. Any suggestions how I go about that? I can't find anything on this site. And I don't know what that would mean for her potential as a SB.

[JZLizard]

Everything was cool. I left and on the way home, she texts nice things then asks if I want to do an arrangement. It gets down to "I don't sleep with with strangers sorry" so my reply was "I don't give money to strangers, sorry".

I also said I am not interested in a girl who wants a money grab. My tactics sort of worked. We will see. I think I am going to probably forget this one.That sounds a little like my one horror-date SB. She met me, then cut our date short, then started texting me about whether I wanted to fuck her or not and if so why I didn't advance quickly enough. It became clear she cut the date short so that she could text me about money (she apparently didn't have the courage to discuss in person I guess). It went no where fast, I said thanks but no thanks. I later looked her up on FB and she was in a very serious relationship with another girl. I thought about the old joke "she didn't like ME? She just be a lezbo". LOL. But in that one case it was true.

The only other M&G I've had that didn't go to the FC was different. I just wasn't into her, the pics were better than the real person. Very nice girl and can't even say she misrepresented herself at all, just didn't feel motivated -- I felt a little bad about it but I had to say thanks but no thanks again for a different reason.

[DrMcNaughty]

LS. I would have PMed you with this?, but your mailbox is full. I wondered what that AF acronym was. Asian female, or a typo. I'd also appreciate gleaning from your local knowledge, as you are in near and I am relatively new, so I will review all your old posts.

I M&G w / a girl today w / a 213 area code. Found her from my CL ad. She is now setting up a studio girls can do webcams from. I found one of her ads for girls and it says she was a performer for 6 years. Very pretty, bangin' body, smart, business oriented. I am trying to track down if she was / is someone that whole webcam community knows about. Any suggestions how I go about that? I can't find anything on this site. And I don't know what that would mean for her potential as a SB.Hi.

I shoot content for a number of cam girls pm me.

Cheers.

[Cephlapod Love]

Have seen of recent several SBs who post in their profiles that they are open to a platonic relationship. Now, I don't waste time on them as there are plenty of fish in the bowl. Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments.

But I am wondering if any dudes have flipped such a girl and what were their experiences? Anything in their profile that was key that they might flip?

Just askin'.

[JZLizard]

Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments. Then today's your lucky day because there is an FAQ entry customized just for folks like you: http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ&p=2619514&viewfull=1#post2619514.

It takes so much less effort to just not read that which doesn't interest you than it does to publicly cry about its existence.

[YayaGogo]

Have seen of recent several SBs who post in their profiles that they are open to a platonic relationship. Now, I don't waste time on them as there are plenty of fish in the bowl. Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments.

But I am wondering if any dudes have flipped such a girl and what were their experiences? Anything in their profile that was key that they might flip?

Just askin'.True story: Just last week I sent a message to a college girl that had platonic in her bio because she was cute. She reaffirmed no sex preference in her initial response, then I said I approach this as a normal relationship which does include intimacy and wished her well. Her very next message said she would not only meet me intimately but would be willing to bring a cute friend (sent pics) if I wanted both! Although they were ready, 2. 5 K each / month was too pricey for a long term arrangement (my preference). You never know!

[FarFarAway]

True story: Just last week I sent a message to a college girl that had platonic in her bio because she was cute. She reaffirmed no sex preference in her initial response, then I said I approach this as a normal relationship which does include intimacy and wished her well. Her very next message said she would not only meet me intimately but would be willing to bring a cute friend (sent pics) if I wanted both! Although they were ready, 2. 5 K each / month was too pricey for a long term arrangement (my preference). You never know!The advice from Hollywood Guy has been that you should never take at face value something a girl <23 puts in her profile. They're just clueless in some cases. The 'expectation' in particular they may not have paid attention to, or especially been able to do the math to figure out that 5 meets / mo at 10 K / mo is 2 K / meet - 'High' just sounded good to them. Some girls may put platonic b / c they don't want to be approached like hookers, and reading profiles it is apparent that many guys on SA are making approaches in the crudest ways. I've heard the same stories from my babies too. If I liked a girl who says platonic, I'd try them.

There are other pointers about who to approach based on the profile you can find here or on the archive post. I was VERY impressed w / the point JZlizard made recently that girls who put stuff in like 'I don't need luxury goods and fancy dinners, I'm a starving college student and need tuition' were immediate rule-outs. You can read his rationale, which I find impeccable, but this was a great pointer for me, a relative newbie. On its face, that profile draws my attention (well, it did) as it sounds like someone who is reasonable. Maybe that is the problem. They are flinty-eyed accountants, not wild babies who want to do something adventurous including suck the dick of someone old enough to be their grandpa (me).

[Ltnric]

So I learned a very important lesson. Much like the escorting world you need to remember that everything is negotiable. So long story short I met a girl on Match in January and she was a young Ukrainian girl who was going to a local community college. She wanted to be exclusive and there was a 20 year gap but I eventually agreed. We date for 3 months and I find a profile she had made on SA. As soon as I find out I kicked her to the curb. Looking back I wish I had stuck it out. It would have been good to get that pussy for free while someone was paying for it but what got me mad was that she lied to me. She was was a good looking girl trying to get into the medical field and shew as asking for moderate expectation which I believe is about $3 K / month. I did my research and I was able to find someone on this board who paid her $200 to go to the FC. So leason here is don't be afraid to reach out to those expensive SB. At the end of the day they may be likely to come way down.

[John HandCock]

So I learned a very important lesson. Much like the escorting world you need to remember that everything is negotiable. So long story short I met a girl on Match in January and she was a young Ukrainian girl who was going to a local community college. She wanted to be exclusive and there was a 20 year gap but I eventually agreed. We date for 3 months and I find a profile she had made on SA. As soon as I find out I kicked her to the curb. Looking back I wish I had stuck it out. It would have been good to get that pussy for free while someone was paying for it but what got me mad was that she lied to me. She was was a good looking girl trying to get into the medical field and shew as asking for moderate expectation which I believe is about $3 K / month. I did my research and I was able to find someone on this board who paid her $200 to go to the FC. So leason here is don't be afraid to reach out to those expensive SB. At the end of the day they may be likely to come way down.K you lost me on this. Your mad because you got cheated on civy dating a younger woman. Did you fall in love omr what am I missing. What was you footing bill wise. Alot of these girls have multiplex daddies so if your getting it for free what was you out other than free puszsy and I guess an emotional attachment that wasn't returned? Still looks win win to me.

[Assaholic]

Happened to me too (on Tinder). I signed up a few days ago just to check things out. (turns out I did spot a few SB on there, one from SA). My first match sounded great and close by. We exchanged a few messages and suddenly bam, she asks me to verify my age with a credit card. WTF? I ignored her, but she keeps insisting. Little do I know that I'm talking to a "bot".

http://fusion.net/story/181565/am-i-chatting-with-a-bot/

So it turns out, if you get a match immediately or within a few seconds, you're probably talking to an algorithm. If in doubt, ask her to spell "Me so horny" backwards.

On a related note, I got a reply on SA today, no intro no nothing, just straight up telling me the only way she'll agree to meet is if I first send her a gift via Venmo "to make sure I'm real". Yaa, right. Blocker her.


In my perusing of Tinder and CL I've run across the scam of sending you to a verification site a bunch of times. This was the first time I've seen it on SA and seemed to be for SA's background verification. There were several strange things about her profile. Her ethnicity was listed as Native American, but her pic is a pale white blonde. Her profile talks about looking for a long term relationship, but her first message is asking me to get together to be an "nsa sex buddy" at a luxury hotel she's staying at. That's always a red flag for a scammer. The 3rd tip off is that her grammar was just a touch awkward with strange phrasing of things. Anyway, she of course says to meet I have to get SA's LDS (Local Discreet Stamp of SA). I do notice that SA's background check is with a 3rd party company. Perhaps that company is placing false profiles to scam people into the service.

Good hunting,

Travelin.

[Assaholic]

Have seen of recent several SBs who post in their profiles that they are open to a platonic relationship. Now, I don't waste time on them as there are plenty of fish in the bowl. Also I am aware of the long diatribes about moving on when a girl doesn't fit a set criteria. So I get that. Not interested in those style of comments.

But I am wondering if any dudes have flipped such a girl and what were their experiences? Anything in their profile that was key that they might flip?

Just askin'.I've flipped many hunnies in the AMP world. I'd suggest try asking them if they'd be open to something less than FC, e. G. Massage, lingerie modeling, BJ / HJ, even body painting. If they agree to giving / receiving nude massage, and they can see that you're a nice guy, not a freak or psycho, and that they can make much more, 9/10 you're golden. Just don't do anything stupid, don't be pushy, be on your best manners and be prepared to go home packing blue balls if she's not ready for it.

[JZLizard]

K you lost me on this. Your mad because you got cheated on civy dating a younger woman. Did you fall in love omr what am I missing. What was you footing bill wise. Alot of these girls have multiplex daddies so if your getting it for free what was you out other than free puszsy and I guess an emotional attachment that wasn't returned? Still looks win win to me.Well I can kind of relate to his story, because more than once I've met girls that were "reluctant SBs" on Match, and I can tell you they are frustrating as hell to date. They will tell you that the fact you're twice their age is not a problem for them, just don't ever mistake them for a gold-digger because that's not them. They will go so far out of their way to separate any sort of financial support from the equation, yet simultaneously complain about financial problems. To give a prime example, I had a 24 year old lingerie model (a real one, not a "craigslist" lingerie model but one that received paychecks from a lingerie company), and I once handed her a sealed white envelope full of cash, which I had intentionally put as many $10 bills in as possible to fatten the envelope. As she sat there and considered it, I could see her massaging the paper between her thumb and forefinger trying to guess at the amount, but ultimately she handed it back to me without opening it. They will go through all these backward somersaults to prove to you how much they don't want your money, then later you see them on an SD site and they go "oh! Haha! I just did that as a joke I forgot that profile was there".

So yes, it can be frustrating as hell. You don't have to be in love with them to get fed up with their games. They are on Match because they are looking for something real (real but old enough to be their dad in many cases). But, its as if they are lining that one up for a long-term security blanket, maybe the father of their child or whatever. Then they go and post a profile on a sugar site that presents themselves as an SB. And more than likely, the guy that gifts them directly ends up with better sex, because they are lining up the freebie guy for boyfriend material (so they are going to try to play the role of the virgin mary or as close as possible), and they are going to unleash their inner sl_t with whatever SD they met on the arrangement site, giving him the better sexual performance.

This is why most of the time I'd rather just go straight for the arrangement site. The only exception to that is if you do not have an SO and are a single guy, it behooves you to be on Match, POF, and many others because they are incredible outlets for free pussy, very cost effective compared to SD site memberships (like probably one fourth the cost or less), and by casting a wide net on lots of dating sites you always have something lined up. Single guys really shouldn't miss out on it. It's a bit dangerous for guys with an SO, because a lot of these girls on Match are not looking for someone who is already attached and won't appreciate a bait and switch, whereas girls on an SD site tend to not care about that at all.

In my opinion, nobody should ever expect "exclusive" to be what it says it is with a paid SB.

But Lintric as you suggested, I would have just kept my cool and kept fucking her for what it's worth, but lining up and banging other prospects at the same time, as long as banging her was not eroding time that could be spent looking for something better.

I wrote about this here in the past but maybe not in a while. When I was single, I would actually limit the amount of time I spent on "wild girls" (strippers, sugarbabies, bar sl_ts, whatever), because I wanted to focus my efforts on finding someone I might actually have a future with. I kept as many fuckbuddies in rotation as I could just to meet general needs, but I always considered it supplemental activity and not the end game.

[John HandCock]

Well I can kind of relate to his story, because more than once I've met girls that were "reluctant SBs" on Match, and I can tell you they are frustrating as hell to date. They will tell you that the fact you're twice their age is not a problem for them, just don't ever mistake them for a gold-digger because that's not them. They will go so far out of their way to separate any sort of financial support from the equation, yet simultaneously complain about financial problems. To give a prime example, I had a 24 year old lingerie model (a real one, not a "craigslist" lingerie model but one that received paychecks from a lingerie company), and I once handed her a sealed white envelope full of cash, which I had intentionally put as many $10 bills in as possible to fatten the envelope. As she sat there and considered it, I could see her massaging the paper between her thumb and forefinger trying to guess at the amount, but ultimately she handed it back to me without opening it. They will go through all these backward somersaults to prove to you how much they don't want your money, then later you see them on an SD site and they go "oh! Haha! I just did that as a joke I forgot that profile was there".

So yes, it can be frustrating as hell. You don't have to be in love with them to get fed up with their games. They are on Match because they are looking for something real (real but old enough to be their dad in many cases). But, its as if they are lining that one up for a long-term security blanket, maybe the father of their child or whatever. Then they go and post a profile on a sugar site that presents themselves as an SB. And more than likely, the guy that gifts them directly ends up with better sex, because they are lining up the freebie guy for boyfriend material (so they are going to try to play the role of the virgin mary or as close as possible), and they are going to unleash their inner sl_t with whatever SD they met on the arrangement site, giving him the better sexual performance.

This is why most of the time I'd rather just go straight for the arrangement site. The only exception to that is if you do not have an SO and are a single guy, it behooves you to be on Match, POF, and many others because they are incredible outlets for free pussy, very cost effective compared to SD site memberships (like probably one fourth the cost or less), and by casting a wide net on lots of dating sites you always have something lined up. Single guys really shouldn't miss out on it. It's a bit dangerous for guys with an SO, because a lot of these girls on Match are not looking for someone who is already attached and won't appreciate a bait and switch, whereas girls on an SD site tend to not care about that at all.

In my opinion, nobody should ever expect "exclusive" to be what it says it is with a paid SB.

But Lintric as you suggested, I would have just kept my cool and kept fucking her for what it's worth, but lining up and banging other prospects at the same time, as long as banging her was not eroding time that could be spent looking for something better.

I wrote about this here in the past but maybe not in a while. When I was single, I would actually limit the amount of time I spent on "wild girls" (strippers, sugarbabies, bar sl_ts, whatever), because I wanted to focus my efforts on finding someone I might actually have a future with. I kept as many fuckbuddies in rotation as I could just to meet general needs, but I always considered it supplemental activity and not the end game.I don't think when there is a big age difference such as 20 years there is any future unless your just so loaded its worth it for them to wait for ya to die LOL. At that difference its today and possibly tomorrow. They don't get any sugar and whine about bills, big deal, if your fucking them. Now if you were to actually help and cared then maybe they wouldn't be out fucking for 200. I mean mongers move on pretty fast when paying and they look crosseyed at them the wrong way. Just saying guys tend to be really bad boyfriends but have no problem shelling out $$$ for paid pussy. I can see if your attached how you would feel if you found out she was fucking around and if she was selling pussy. Probably about the same way a SO would feel. Now I'm rambling so going back to bed. Oh one last thought. Statistics show more women fuck around on the SO than men and 95% never get caught. So like you said never count on an exclusive relationship.

[Tc9869]

Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.

[IluvSmellyFish]

It means she has something to lose if your arrangement is made public. She's less likely to post your pic on Twitter if she has a bf. This of course assumes you care about discretion. It also means juggling multiple daddies is going to be difficult. I view it as completely normal for a young lady to want to be in a relationship with a guy closers to her age. All of his faults will make her appreciate her time with you more.

Make sure you're though that you aren't the guy that she is "in the relationship" with. It's fine if you're like biker rider or Hoya and want to date your babies, but I'm assuming you play in the bowl for discretion.

Also, the fact that you have access to her fb account with her not knowing is great. You can keep tabs on her.


Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.

[Reggu]

Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.Imagine from a distance you had seen her out w / him or w / another sd, but she didn't know you saw her, so what? You could tell her you saw her or not, or you could ask her if she is involved w / anyone else, even as she could ask you if your married, etc. Just ask, if she is ok w / it and you are too then all is good.

[FarFarAway]

In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.I agree w / Fish that her having a BF is NBD. However, the bowl is a place where nothing is exactly what it seems. Better get used to her keeping secrets from you. You presumably are doing the same w / her, yes? I will quote a PM I just got from Cephlapod Love: "I have found that about half of what these girls tell me is true. LOL! I. Take it with a grain of salt". My experience is less extensive but it seems like that's a good rule of thumb to use. They're all models, right? Don't drink her Kool-Aid.

I have observed that plenty of babies aren't very concerned about keeping a secret identity, and in many cases I have tracked down their facts with not much effort, or they have come out early. But their worries are different than ours. They don't want to become targets of freaks or stalkers. Once they've concluded we're not that, they're usually pretty good. We (the 40% of us on SA who are married, reportedly) are trying to avoid discovery. A different kettle of fish. That's forever.

Actually, there are a few of us here who are as interested in the personal as the sexual connection w / babies, and I would say the bowl is a little deficient in this regard. You can share your essence as a person, but not really your life b / c you're preserving anonymity. I have aliases for my *dogs* I use when talking w / my baby, and I can't even show her their pictures b / c they are so distinctive (think Spuds McKenzie). I have a pretty admirable life / career I'm quite proud of, and I think it makes me more attractive to women generally, but I can't really share that w / a baby b / c it reveals too much. She just knows I am smart, have money, and fuck her silly (which is plenty).

You all know I am pretty new to the bowl. As an indicator, when I'm alone in my car I still find myself shouting "I am fucking a hot 21-year old OMFG! (I didn't put that in the all-caps for shouting as I know it gets deleted.) Remember those days?

[BikeRider]

....

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.By no means let her know you're 'snooping' on her. While it is relatively normal for most people to check-up on partners, it still weirds many people out.

[BikeRider]

I posted a while ago about a new app Beewake that let people book hotel rooms by the hour.

It now has a web interface as well. I did some searching earlier today to see availability. They had rooms in NY, Chicago, and San Fran. None of the available rooms were the Ritz, but in NY they had an Aloft in the financial district. Surprisingly they had nothing in LA, or DC.

They definitely seem to be growing so let's hope they get coverage in more locales soon!

[JZLizard]

I posted a while ago about a new app Beewake that let people book hotel rooms by the hour.
It now has a web interface as well. I did some searching earlier today to see availability. They had rooms in NY, Chicago, and San Fran. None of the available rooms were the Ritz, but in NY they had an Aloft in the financial district. Surprisingly they had nothing in LA, or DC.
They definitely seem to be growing so let's hope they get coverage in more locales soon!I'm just waiting for some entrepreneur to tap into the demand for short-term sex rooms. Something mobile like a FuckTruckDotCom app where you put in a parking lot location for the guy and girl to arrive, and the equivalent of an Uber driver shows up in a custom van with a bed in the back. I would say self-driving fuck trucks are the future but then who would change the sheets between sessions?

[Cephlapod Love]

I'm just waiting for some entrepreneur to tap into the demand for short-term sex rooms. Something mobile like a FuckTruckDotCom app where you put in a parking lot location for the guy and girl to arrive, and the equivalent of an Uber driver shows up in a custom van with a bed in the back. I would say self-driving fuck trucks are the future but then who would change the sheets between sessions?I'm just the paranoid type, so would be suspicious of someones "pre-set" FC on wheels. Do I have to become an expert in surveillance to insure our session doesn't end up on some website like that fake taxi in London?

[FarFarAway]

I'm just waiting for some entrepreneur to tap into the demand for short-term sex rooms. Something mobile like a FuckTruckDotCom app where you put in a parking lot location for the guy and girl to arrive, and the equivalent of an Uber driver shows up in a custom van with a bed in the back. I would say self-driving fuck trucks are the future but then who would change the sheets between sessions?In Japan they have 'love hotels' b / c people often have little privacy at home. The rooms come complete w / accoutrements and supplies of your choice.

We have them here in Buenos Aires as well. Most civilized cities do.

Shit is uptight in Sex Prison, I feel for my brothers.

A2

[JZLizard]

I'm just the paranoid type, so would be suspicious of someones "pre-set" FC on wheels. Do I have to become an expert in surveillance to insure our session doesn't end up on some website like that fake taxi in London?Umm. Well I hate to point out the obvious but FakeTaxi is a staged site with professional actresses. So, if you want to own your own porn company then yeah I'd have to probably recommend go ahead and investing in a camera. Otherwise you're probably overestimating the amount of privacy you get once you go on the internet at all. For example, phpbb itself has so many backdoors and security exploits available that are an inherent part of the software source code base, that someone with the right skills can quickly track a username to a real identity on a forum like this without too much effort. The Internet has never been a safe zone for anything.

[FredMoore]

True, but there are actually many girls who are not fucking machines like most of us are. They don't necessarily live to be fucked and hunger for the next dick. Even though you can't count on fidelity, often they are happy with one guy and not looking for more. Eventually, every young girl will want "the real deal" and move on.

[FarFarAway]

True, but there are actually many girls who are not fucking machines like most of us are. They don't necessarily live to be fucked and hunger for the next dick. Even though you can't count on fidelity, often they are happy with one guy and not looking for more. Eventually, every young girl will want "the real deal" and move on.My first SB asked for an exclusive. She was a single mom and she just didn't have time to be dealing w / multiple guys. I never wondered if she was honoring that. Of course, she needed to max her return on me, which eventually proved our undoing.

[JZLizard]

True, but there are actually many girls who are not fucking machines like most of us are. They don't necessarily live to be fucked and hunger for the next dick. Even though you can't count on fidelity, often they are happy with one guy and not looking for more. Eventually, every young girl will want "the real deal" and move on.Just to be clear I wasn't saying all women are cheaters. I was saying if someone is paying an SB, it's not realistic to expect her to be exclusive just because she says she is. Just like I gift them to create emotional separation, if she is being paid, then there is an emotional separation there. Most women find themselves feeling like they are missing something when there is an emotional gap in their relationship, so if for example they are married to an older guy that pays all the bills, at some point they will start to crave that feeling of being with someone just because you care about each other, they tend to stray and find emotional friends / lovers to supplement their primary relationship -- relationships that are intentionally not based on money. Are there exceptions? Sure, particularly when measured over some period of time other than eternity. But given enough time, girls of a certain age will usually stray, at least occasionally, out of the arms of MisterMoney and into the arms of someone else, even if only for a fling.

This does not include the class of SBs that get flipped into real girlfriends. Some of the guys that have done that would have to comment. I'm sure that if the money is removed, and the girl loves the guy, she's capable of being loyal. I just don't have experience with turning an SB into an LTR.

[Moohk]

Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.I'd be curious about this, would you PM? I wonder if I've come across her is all.

[BikeRider]

I'm just the paranoid type, so would be suspicious of someones "pre-set" FC on wheels. Do I have to become an expert in surveillance to insure our session doesn't end up on some website like that fake taxi in London?Think of the great pick-up lines "hey meet me in the parking lot of the Piggly Wiggly"!

[Enzo Amore]

All (98% or more) SA girls in some degree:

1. Lie.

2. Change their minds every 5 minutes or less.

3. Date, have sex, etc. More than one guy.

4. Have some form of mental disorder / problems.

5. Knows they deserve free money because they are special.

6. Thinks that SA is just a platonic site.

These girls are believe some or all of 1-6. Once your mind understands this, you can play the game and not have the game play you.


Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.

[Tc9869]

...

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.Little bit of an update. Date was fantastic. She seemed very happy with the allowance (I gave her 240 at the end of a 5 hour date, I think she'd have been happy for less but I absolutely want to lock this one down into a long term arrangement). I already thought she was a 9 physically but after undressing, definitely a 10 face 10 body. Delivered a 10 in performance as well. I found a hotel near her that includes a private 2 person whirlpool sauna in the room for 80 bucks, and was two doors down from the pool so we enjoyed both.

During the course of the date's conversation, I had the opportunity to inquire about last boyfriend and last sex. Claimed last sex was over summer, because guys her age all fall into two buckets (want a serious relationship which she doesn't want, or are an asshole). Definitely seems to enjoy the perks of dating a little bit older (she's 22 I'm 31, so it's not huge) much nicer more mature option. Always seemed stunned at little things like my offering her my coat in the cold / rain tonight. Also claimed last boyfriend was a long time ago, which I know from snooping isn't quite true. Honestly too good of a liar for me to know how much of the above is true, maybe it's all fake. Not sure I care, I'm not looking for a serious relationship and the body / sex is unbelievable, I just wish she'd be honest.

Seems entirely willing to negotiate and work on allowance aspects as well. Discussed perhaps taking help with bills etc. Over an allowance.

Still not sure how I feel about her seeing another guy and lying to my face about it, but I think at the end of the day as long as I'm satisfied with our time together I should probably just ignore it.

Also said she was ok with me taking nudes as long as we weren't in the act, will try to post some next week. Also huge fan of these young girls who are ok with bareback, condoms blow. Spoke to a couple girls yesterday who refused to allow bareback even if I showed a recent clean test. Don't think I'm going to continue chasing other options though, as much as I like variety this one plus my girlfriend are going to eat all my time away from the wife.

[JZLizard]

In Japan they have 'love hotels' b / c people often have little privacy at home. The rooms come complete w / accoutrements and supplies of your choice.

We have them here in Buenos Aires as well. Most civilized cities do.

Shit is uptight in Sex Prison, I feel for my brothers.

A2What's worse is it seems like the no-tell motel is going the way of the payphone in the US. Those small family owned roadside motels that used to offer hourly stays mostly seem to be folding, falling into disrepair, selling when its an option, etc. Or maybe they stay open but they are in such shape that they are unsuitable for sugar dating. I was being a bit facetious with my FuckTruckDotCom app vision, but I don't think it's impossible to imagine something a little less "out there" happening in the future. The US is still relatively uptight about prostitution but I wonder how long it can last. Girls in high school these days dress like what would be considered streetwalkers attire 30 years ago and their moms encourage them to do so. Some of these sugar babies parents know what they do and in some cases even encourage them. Everything from social media to mainstream TV tends to raise the bar in shock value and sexual desensitization each successive year. I don't see it all going back in time and becoming more conservative, so I don't know where else it can lead except to legalized prostitution.

[Member #5570]

Two and a half weeks ago I met a wonderful girl on SA. The date seemed to go really well. I got a little concerned when she mentioned she joined the site because of a friend who does all online arrangements, and then her saying she'd need time to get comfortable with being intimate, but she ultimately agreed to the "sugar for sugar" concept and said she'd wait for an allowance until getting physical. The following weekend she had an art show, so we did some light texting throughout the week but that was it.

That Thursday I asked when I could see her again, and she responded "to be honest I don't think SA is for me, I'm looking for a means for fun and aid in expenses, but not necessarily 'prostitute' LOL".

I responded "alright".

She came back with "I enjoyed meeting you, though. Thanks for the experience LOL".

"LOL. I enjoyed meeting you too. Wish things had been different haha. You're really nice and possibly the most beautiful girl I've seen on there: D".

"You were a nice guy too. I lucked out meeting you on the first try haha. Perhaps give me a few days to think about my moral standing? LOL".

"LOL, sure. For what it's worth, I don't think of you that way at all. And I meant what I said about taking it as slow as you want".

"Well thanks".

I didn't text again until she was at the art gallery showing pieces. I engaged in a normal friendly manner (asking for pics of her art she was selling, she's really good). She randomly injected into the conversation she was having her birth control shot the following week. I asked if that meant I got to see her again, and she said she hoped so. I asked if she wanted to just grab lunch and then take it from there and she responded with "not saying we have to do this Saturday, but I've been craving a swimming pool lately. It would be fun to get a hotel and get tipsy in the tub LOL".

"LOL does that mean what I think it means? ".

"oh daddy, indeed it does".

Point of this part was basically to show 1) playing the nice guy can absolutely work and 2) give you an idea what her demeanor has been like. Now is where I'm unsure how to proceed.

She had to cancel that Saturday for a funeral. We rescheduled for today. I noticed last night she blocked my main account on Facebook (seemed odd, as I'd never sent a friends request or anything). From a second account, I saw she is now in a relationship as of three days ago. Seems reasonable to suspect this relationship was the actual reason for the cancellation Saturday. I've never had a SB with a boyfriend, and I'm not sure if / how I should proceed. Many of you mention not seeing a SB if she's not exclusive, but I've also seen the idea of being accepting of her having a bf because it shows confidence etc. However, I can't even inquire without making it obvious I was snooping. I'm absolutely going to proceed with today because she's fun and extremely sexy (does some light modeling etc. , very skinny with a C cup), but I'd like this to be a regular thing (maybe 3-4 times a month) and I'm tempted to say giving away I was snooping or mentioning I know what she's trying to hide is just going to cause an issue and push her away. In reality I have no misconceptions of her leaving her bf for a sd or money, but I'm really more concerned with her keeping secrets from me.Keep it simple bud.

We pay, or gift, a hot young babe so that we have access to her body and all her holes.

If you're looking for a girlfriend, the bowl is not the place to look.

See her, fuck her good, and get back to your life and she goes back to hers.

[SkyHigh688]

Hi,

I have been a long time silence reader of this forum. I have been in the bowl for over two years now and found two young girls that I stuck with for a long time. I have recently moved to Austin and have been lining up a few 'prospects' in that area for a few meetups next week. I haven't discussed about 'sugar' with anyone yet nor did they bring it up yet. Does anyone have any experience at this location? Trying to get an idea on the normal expectations on sugar since this place is more expensive than where I was before. Thanks for your help.

[SkyHigh688]

In my perusing of Tinder and CL I've run across the scam of sending you to a verification site a bunch of times. This was the first time I've seen it on SA and seemed to be for SA's background verification. There were several strange things about her profile. Her ethnicity was listed as Native American, but her pic is a pale white blonde. Her profile talks about looking for a long term relationship, but her first message is asking me to get together to be an "nsa sex buddy" at a luxury hotel she's staying at. That's always a red flag for a scammer. The 3rd tip off is that her grammar was just a touch awkward with strange phrasing of things. Anyway, she of course says to meet I have to get SA's LDS (Local Discreet Stamp of SA). I do notice that SA's background check is with a 3rd party company. Perhaps that company is placing false profiles to scam people into the service.

Good hunting,

Travelin.I am not dealing with similar situation on SD4 ME. Interestingly, she is also a Native American. She didn't ask me to verify on any site, but she wants to know full name, where I live etc. Her grammar is also a little weird. Not sure if we are dealing with the same girl. If I were to believe the pics she sent me, she has a banging body with nice bolt-ons.

[FarFarAway]

I found this on another city's SB thread. I hope I know how to post it. Anyway. What's your idea about blocking on SA someone you have started communicating w / outside? I have posted before about using favoriting to keep track of girls. Today I happened on the profile of my newest baby, and I see she hasn't been on SA in 2 weeks. Aahh!

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?12509-Seeking-Arrangements-(SA)&p=3127507&viewfull=1#post3127507.

[Cephlapod Love]

Not sure I care, I'm not looking for a serious relationship and the body / sex is unbelievable, I just wish she'd be honest.


Still not sure how I feel about her seeing another guy and lying to my face about it, but I think at the end of the day as long as I'm satisfied with our time together I should probably just ignore it.

Er, give yer head a shake! Sure any girl is going to "lie" about aspects of her life. Have you given her your real name, real address, real phone number, real place of work, etc. ? If not you are doing the male double standard thing. But it doesn't matter.

As OP have pointed out below, just assume the girl is dating / F*cking other dudes or hooking up at the bars on the weekends. What the heck do you care? Don't be one of those dudes that want to "control" their SBs and define what they can and can't do. Those dudes ought to get married!

So yeah, as long as the sex is great, the drama low and she's not all up in yer bidness, let her private life go.

Look, I think a word should be said about "snooping" on FB. The only reason to do that is to make sure she isn't a druggie, jail bird, wacko or something potentially dangerous. That is it! Period! But guys look at the whole picture and then get critical of what they are finding. I know I use to do that. However, This ain't dating & marriage: it is just about F*cking! All you need to know is that she ain't gunna rob you, hurt you or try to show up at your place of work. The rest of what you "need to know" about her you should get from talking to her!

It took me a while to "compartmentalize" between passion with SBs and passion with SOs. You draw bounds to keep the SB out of the SO world and vice versa. But it took me a while to realize that I need to quit applying "GF" standards to a SB. That relationship is about sex and all I care about a SB is anything that effects her ability to show up, get naked and give me the time of my life. When I'm out of that world THEN I can be critical if a girl is trustworthy, honest, etc as it might pertain to a LTR. But also found I don't need to mix the standards.

Off the soap box

[FarFarAway]

I haven't seen this issue addressed directly. What should my status be on SA once I have reached an arrangement w / a SB? And, I guess, what should she do or what should I ask of her? My first one specifically wanted an exclusive, which I heard as she to me, but there was likely a reciprocal expectation from her of me. I mostly kept my profile deactivated on SA, but occasionally would get on, message some girls, provide my contact info, and deactivate again. I kept the profile hidden from searches, as that gets you all kinds of time-wasting contacts. Only those girls I messaged or favorited would have a way to find me. I just got into a new arrangement and am deactivated, and saw today that my baby hasn't been on SA for 2 weeks.

I tried to post here from another city's thread about the idea of blocking a girl on SA as soon as you have an external means of communicating w / her (email, text). Don't know if that post will come up, but perhaps you can find it over there if not. The poster's rationale was that he didn't want her keeping track of him and his activities, he wanted to be able to control the info she had. If I did that to my baby, she might be offended, though, right?

[John HandCock]

I haven't seen this issue addressed directly. What should my status be on SA once I have reached an arrangement w / a SB? And, I guess, what should she do or what should I ask of her? My first one specifically wanted an exclusive, which I heard as she to me, but there was likely a reciprocal expectation from her of me. I mostly kept my profile deactivated on SA, but occasionally would get on, message some girls, provide my contact info, and deactivate again. I kept the profile hidden from searches, as that gets you all kinds of time-wasting contacts. Only those girls I messaged or favorited would have a way to find me. I just got into a new arrangement and am deactivated, and saw today that my baby hasn't been on SA for 2 weeks.

I tried to post here from another city's thread about the idea of blocking a girl on SA as soon as you have an external means of communicating w / her (email, text). Don't know if that post will come up, but perhaps you can find it over there if not. The poster's rationale was that he didn't want her keeping track of him and his activities, he wanted to be able to control the info she had. If I did that to my baby, she might be offended, though, right?If you deactivate your profile a girl can't see your info till its active again. So you play this cat mouse game but what good is it doing you if they can't see your profile for whatever period your deactivated.

[Assaholic]

...as much as I like variety this one plus my girlfriend are going to eat all my time away from the wife.SB, plus girlfriend, plus wife? Dude, when do you sleep? J / k. Enjoy it while you can. I'm jealous because at my age, if I can pop the cork once a week, I consider it a very good week, LOL.

[Assaholic]

Is there a way to construct a link to one's SA profile to allow a POT to pull it up without having to sign up?

[John HandCock]

Is there a way to construct a link to one's SA profile to allow a POT to pull it up without having to sign up?Why? If your talking to someone you should be able to seal the deal if she is considering it. I don't undetstand what viewing a profile is going to accomplish if your already talking.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Every major city has an Asian population, which means there will be rooms for karaoke. You pay by the hour. The rooms have big couches, tvs, and loud sound systems. Most also serve food and drinks. Take your baby out to one of these places. Instant date and fc.

If you haven't been to one, make friends with someone who is asian. They can show you the ropes.

My sublease office spot just came to an end. Got caught in the act after hours. Back to hotels.com and public sex until I can figure out a new cost effective fc.


I posted a while ago about a new app Beewake that let people book hotel rooms by the hour.

It now has a web interface as well. I did some searching earlier today to see availability. They had rooms in NY, Chicago, and San Fran. None of the available rooms were the Ritz, but in NY they had an Aloft in the financial district. Surprisingly they had nothing in LA, or DC.

They definitely seem to be growing so let's hope they get coverage in more locales soon!

[IluvSmellyFish]

I found this on another city's SB thread. I hope I know how to post it. Anyway. What's your idea about blocking on SA someone you have started communicating w / outside? I have posted before about using favoriting to keep track of girls. Today I happened on the profile of my newest baby, and I see she hasn't been on SA in 2 weeks. Aahh!

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?12509-Seeking-Arrangements-(SA)&p=3127507&viewfull=1#post3127507.If you block someone, your profile is still visible to other sbs / pots. This presents a problem since many of these sbs / pots have friends in the bowl. If a friend of hers is tracking you, or if she has an alternate hidden profile she's using to keep tabs on you, you may need to explain why you blocked her.

I have enough trouble covering my tracks with my SO. I am more honest with my sbs with regard to other babies, but only if they ask or want to be exclusive. Besides, when they ask you to be exclusive, it provides you with leverage to lower the sugar, but that assumes you would want exclusivity.

[FarFarAway]

Is there a way to construct a link to one's SA profile to allow a POT to pull it up without having to sign up?I don't think so. If that were possible w / a hot link, then all of the other things we don't want on the site (reverse image searching, for example) would also be true. What I have been doing, b / c I don't want to have my profile up on SA (either b / c I just want to be super safe regarding the SO, or b / c I have a SB I don't want to see it), is to print a PDF of my profile and send it to them by email. That's an excuse to get their emails too.

[FarFarAway]

A while back I posted about two young women who approached me 'civi' and seemed very positive and interested. There was a lot of debate on the thread about the wisdom of my trying to turn them into SBs. I got this msg from one in response to a very innocent, brief inquiry: "yes, we should meet next week for coffee! Just let me know, I would love to chat.)!

Coached by one of my bowl brothers, JoyDrop, the importance of texting to this generation (and the type of texting) has been impressed on me. I am paying attention to that w / my current baby, but thought I would try it with this girl also, so I gave her my sugar #. We M&G today.

[FarFarAway]

If you deactivate your profile a girl can't see your info till its active again. So you play this cat mouse game but what good is it doing you if they can't see your profile for whatever period your deactivated.Indeed, this is true. I was selective with those I contacted. Ideally, those that were online at that moment, as they could get to my profile then. I could also include a message to them explaining the situation, provide my email and offer to email them the profile. No doubt there were many who just ignored my contact b / c it was too much trouble, but I did get some POTs in this way. Some were negative, some liked the fact I was so UTR, which they presumably were too.

[Assaholic]

Why? If your talking to someone you should be able to seal the deal if she is considering it. I don't undetstand what viewing a profile is going to accomplish if your already talking.Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.

[FarFarAway]

Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.I think your experience sounds average. Don't get discouraged. It's like any kind of dating, really. There's no way you can be everything for everyone. You have to try a lot to get one, but you only need one. There is one dynamic, the dom / sub, that seems common in the bowl, and we can guess why that might be. Guys who play that likely do better than average. That's not me though. I'm just a nice guy. I have a beautiful, hot 21 YO baby now, and I am a 61 YO bald guy. She loves our sex, it's top notch, and we also have a strong connection outside the FC. It has taken me since June to find her (I have had a few other babies, of varying attractiveness). You can play the 'nice' card, or whatever card you have. I encourage you to be you. There isn't much of an alternative.

I have done some experimenting w / those $ parameters on the profile. I'd bet some girls don't care much, thinking they just want to know what the sugar is. I did have one reply that I couldn't afford her expectations (I guess she said high, that 5-10 K / mo amount, and I listed my income as 200 K) and block me. Initially I put my net worth several times lower than real, fearing a big # would attract true gold-diggers. I was frustrated I wasn't getting replies from the real 9's and 10's I aspired to, and I upped that to a few times higher than my net worth. Yeah, I think I got more replies. You can't claim to be worth 10 mil and drive a chevy, but give yourself some enhancement if you think that's the problem. You only have to come up w / the sugar one time to at least break your maiden in the bowl. This isn't a cheap hobby, though. My two babies were / are getting 2 K / mo, and then there's the overhead of hotels because I have a SO and they aren't able to host. Throw in champagne one girl wanted or the gift cards that make the other's panties cream, and it's easily another thousand. These are high quality Cali babies, to be sure, but those are the wages of sin. Demographically, if you want white or asian teens and 20's girls, you are going to be paying thorugh the nose. If you can find a nice Hispanic girl, or hunt outside major metro areas, where sugar is a little less, you might hit paydirt.

[Member #5344]

I visited ATX almost exactly a year ago and found it to be a gold mine.

Word of caution -- the tech industry has driven up expectations of many SBs. Guys with more money than sense like to throw it around.

For a two night visit I had no problem lining up 6 confirmed fuck fests, pending approval over coffee or drinks. I'm older so I targeted the late 20's to MILF crowd. My ideal arrangement is an overnight slumber party, 3-4 rounds, 3 hole access, up to $600 for the experience.

Ended up night 1 with a "Spokesmodel" with the most ridiculous body I've ever seen naked. 8 face, 10 body, 10 performance. Loved CIM. $500.

Had several other options, but my plans changed so I arranged a nooner with someone I think was just a UTR provider. She hosted in a messy apartment and was a yoga instructor and real "gem head". Totally open and kinky, nothing off limits. $300.

Lots of CoEds in the market -- not just UT but SFA -- and recent grads.

Can't wait to got back.

[DrMcNaughty]

Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.Don't give up buddy! Get creative! I have a cache of funbunnies to play with. They all want or are curious about the experience I have to offer in my playground! I like 'them thin and petite over 115 is too much for my wants and deires. Its not. All about the $ ! I'm in my 40's, respectful yest super kinky, fit, blessed. I have givin' less than $1000 cash in over a year on SA. I have bought plane tix, nice hotels m dinners concerts vacations. I do give nice gifts that generally haven't cost me a cent. Postly clothing & toys that I get to enjoy seeing and playing with them. It's there. I live in a small mountain town BTW. I travel for my career. That helps but I have girls from all over north america and a few euro countries. I do live in a very desirable location that everyone loves to visit. That helps. Happy hunting!

[Copper Fool]

So, I just finished my paid month on SA. Here is what I found.

I had an ok number of responses to me. I found 3 UTRs, 1 PYT not really looking for much money. 1 very hot MILF, but want more of an relationship than I could give. 4 girls flaked before the m&g, oddly 2 were from the same college? 1 GPS, I'm a little sad because of this one, we really click at the m&g, but money was the issue. 1 PYT I met, but couldn't find the the time to seal the deal. 1 said she was not interested after the m&g, but I think it was more of a money thing. I have one more who is stringing me along via text. If I can work this one out, I think she will be a lot of fun.

Of the UTRs, 1 was a starfish, 1 had a smell, 1 is one of the hottest girls I have ever banged, but she is over an hour from my place. Seeing her again, soon. And NO I'm not sharing. If you're on SA and near her, you should not have any issues finding her.

[IluvSmellyFish]

If what you're doing isn't working, set up a new profile. Use a different approach. You know what got the conversations started, you know what made them go dark. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result won't work.

Presumably you haven't been using a public profile pic of course.


Because we may not be already talking and because she's a civi, doesn't know me from Adam, and her mind may or may not be thinking along the SB / SD paradigm, I want to be able to plant the seed, and have a way for her to get back to me if she's interested, like what Fish was talking about awhile back, but delivered in a more organized, professional way.

I've been on SA for about two weeks straight now and I haven't been able to set up even a single M&G. Out of several dozen pokes, only had a few responses and then they went dark. And I've already covered everyone in my geographical area who matches the profile of the kind of person I'm looking for, so there's no more fish in the barrel, so to speak, LOL. My guess is most of these SBs are well seasoned and are looking for the cream of the crop, guys with a seven-figure net worth OR young, tall & handsome, which isn't me. I don't know how you guys pull it off, but SA's been a total bust for me so far, so I wanted to try alternative approaches and strategies with the same ultimate goal. My theory is that I'll have better results working on an amicable civi, versus a SB who has a dozen seven-figure guys chasing after her. At least that's the theory. I haven't gotten to the proof or the pudding yet. I'm just looking for the over mitts.

[Assaholic]

I think your experience sounds average. Don't get discouraged. It's like any kind of dating, really. There's no way you can be everything for everyone. You have to try a lot to get one, but you only need one. There is one dynamic, the dom / sub, that seems common in the bowl, and we can guess why that might be. Guys who play that likely do better than average. That's not me though. I'm just a nice guy. I have a beautiful, hot 21 YO baby now, and I am a 61 YO bald guy. She loves our sex, it's top notch, and we also have a strong connection outside the FC. It has taken me since June to find her (I have had a few other babies, of varying attractiveness). You can play the 'nice' card, or whatever card you have. I encourage you to be you. There isn't much of an alternative.

I have done some experimenting w / those $ parameters on the profile. I'd bet some girls don't care much, thinking they just want to know what the sugar is. I did have one reply that I couldn't afford her expectations (I guess she said high, that 5-10 K / mo amount, and I listed my income as 200 K) and block me. Initially I put my net worth several times lower than real, fearing a big # would attract true gold-diggers. I was frustrated I wasn't getting replies from the real 9's and 10's I aspired to, and I upped that to a few times higher than my net worth. Yeah, I think I got more replies. You can't claim to be worth 10 mil and drive a chevy, but give yourself some enhancement if you think that's the problem. You only have to come up w / the sugar one time to at least break your maiden in the bowl. This isn't a cheap hobby, though. My two babies were / are getting 2 K / mo, and then there's the overhead of hotels because I have a SO and they aren't able to host. Throw in champagne one girl wanted or the gift cards that make the other's panties cream, and it's easily another thousand. These are high quality Cali babies, to be sure, but those are the wages of sin. Demographically, if you want white or asian teens and 20's girls, you are going to be paying thorugh the nose. If you can find a nice Hispanic girl, or hunt outside major metro areas, where sugar is a little less, you might hit paydirt.Thanks FFA for the words of encouragement and wisdom. I'll try to tweak my profile as you suggested, although it really goes against my nature to pretend to be someone I'm not, but at least for the sake of science, it may be worth a try. Just for the record, my idea of domination is winning 5 sets in a game of checkers. ;.

I'm confident that once I get my foot in the door and get to the meet and greet stage, I'll be able to convey my better qualities. I've rarely had a problem doing that with women face to face. I have had a few SBs before, who came from the AMP realm, not SA. Those arrangements all worked out really, really well for both sides, and some lasted for years. Those SBs all seemed super happy every time we met and it gave me the motivation and confidence to excel at other aspects of my life.

Most were students, around 19-21, mature for their age, ambitious, and exceptionally intelligent. And it cost me around 1 k a month OTD, which was quite manageable from my perspective, and I only need one SB at a time to keep me emotionally and hormonally balanced. So I'm hoping to replace my last SB, who moved out of state, with someone who has similar qualities. As you suspected, I'm only interested in Asians. A character flaw, or whatever label you want give it. I know. So that does limit my choices considerably.

[Assaholic]

If what you're doing isn't working, set up a new profile. Use a different approach. You know what got the conversations started, you know what made them go dark. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result won't work.

Presumably you haven't been using a public profile pic of course.Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.

[John HandCock]

Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing
work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.K I'm not sure your age or the target age your going for. IF your shooting for 18-22 year olds be prepared for no or little response because they operate on their own timetable. Also IF your alot older pics just hurt you in this age group. Suggesting meeting in your first message is a no no. After they respond to a message and you developed a conversation then its time to ask to meet but its better if its their idea. Now I'm really confused about turning a civi into a sb. If you have the game to try this its a head scratcher to your online game not working. Now the question is why convert? Just be a good boyfriend who helps with a bill every once in awhile. That would make her very happy.

I'm 64 no pic on profile with a description of exactly what I'm looking for. I don't target the kids, usually 30-45 age range and have all the response I can handle at 64 LOL. Now occasionally a young one is interested. I've had from 22 upwards to 48. Oh and I've been turned down by several once they get my pics but my thought is on to the next one.

[Luvyounger]

Well I was on there as a paid member for 3 months! Just kinda over that whole thing. Just my 2 cents!

[FarFarAway]

Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.There are different views for what we want to do on this. I believe JZLizard also says he has photos he shares that are him doing / being ordinary. I can see this would tend to keep the sugar down, which is a virtue. If you want to hit some high-quality pussy (your definition. Beauty, age, skills, body), or even just get to first base, I don't think that's the best idea. Some fraction of the sugaring population, perhaps the one you're targeting, is aiming for a fantasy. SDs are living the fantasy that these hot young chicks would actually be our GFs if we weren't paying them. SBs are living the fantasy that they have found a rich man who would let them live a life of luxurious leisure. There seems to be another group that wants to get experiences one could not with someone in civi dating (kinky sex, for example), on both sides.

I would advise you to try to look more upscale. There is that great John Molloy book "Dress for Success" that goes into all the ingrained cultural reasons why it matters what we wear. There is nothing that makes a man, any man, look better than a suit. A famous feminist writer even wrote a book extolling its virtues. The suit represents male power, and recall that Henry Kissinger dated all kinds of hot pussy (Jill St. John!) even though he is a creepy little troll, and said that power was the ultimate aphrodisiac (well, at least for one part of the female population). My one and only full personal photo that I give to POTs (by email, mostly. I rarely have it on SA, b / c I fear hacks ala Ashley Madison) is a mirror selfie wearing my favorite blue Italian suit, no tie (need a cool, hip look). I have friends in the bowl who are in their 40's and pretty handsome I'd wager, and they can likely play a little differently, but if you're 60+ like me (though I advertise 56 on SA. I don't think POTs can tell fine detail, but there clearly would be negative connotations of my real age), power may be the card we have to play. Power comes w / money, of course, and as I've said before I'm likely not getting the cheapest sugar of the SDs on here, but I'm not enjoying it any less. My profile photo on SA isn't me but someone who looks kinda like me, wearing a very nice suit, and cut off at about the nose, so no one could ever complain that I posted a false photo. No one has.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Hancock and FFA hit all the bases. I want to stress, do not push the m&g early. It smells of desperation. Unless you're targeting Utrs or pros, then anything that remotely comes off as desperate will chase the fish away.

Use flaterring pics that look like you. I didn't realize that there was a school of thought out there that advocated for sending pics that were not flattering. I guess to each his own, but most ladies I know do want to be with someone who is physically attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as with the above, unless you're tracking Utrs or pros, you'll want to send pictures that put you in the best light. Hit the gym for a few months, shed 15 lbs, and it will make a difference. Or at least it has in my case. Just as important, you need to use pics that are of you, or don't send any at all. Nothing kills a m&g faster than if you send pics of someone who is not you, and much more attractive. I hear that one from pots all the time. The only way to save yourself there is if you have cash to burn.


Thanks Fish. Problem is I never got to the conversation stage and I don't know what made them go dark. Ex: Me: Hey, I noticed on your profile says you liked XYZ. I love XYZ. Would you like to have coffee together this weekend? Her: No answer (Mesasge read, check. Profile viewed, check.

I'll ride the SA wagon for another month or so to see if anything comes of it. If not, I'm hoping to take a page out of your book to see if I can turn an ordinary civi into an SB. To be honest, this is my preference anyway, because in my area at least, the quality of SA girls is very sub-par in my opinion. Almost every day, in restaurants, shopping places, everywhere, I see ordinary civis who would abslutely crush the best of the best on SA without even trying, and I'm trying to work out a system or methodology to set the agenda to "turn" these ladies.

No, all my pictures are unique and nowhere else on the internet. That said, I'm intending to experiment with changing my current pics with ones that make me look more, well, affluent. The ones I have up now are of me on an ordinary day wearing work clothes or jeans or some such and I'm not leaning on a Bentley either.

[JZLizard]

There are different views for what we want to do on this. I believe JZLizard also says he has photos he shares that are him doing / being ordinary. I can see this would tend to keep the sugar down, which is a virtue. If you want to hit some high-quality pussy (your definition. Beauty, age, skills, body), or even just get to first base, I don't think that's the best idea. I might explain the purpose of "normal" photos. It is based on observations I made once civy dating on the Internet became popular and the concepts can be applied to any form of online dating, not just sugaring.

Those who have spent any time at all with online dating (sugaring or otherwise) know that whenever you meet someone in person for the first time, there is one of three possible outcomes on first visual impression. Either they look exactly like their pics, better than their pics, or worse than their pics.

The first two possible outcomes are good, the third is not. It means that some level of disappointment will occur at the M&G if you are looking for a certain type of girl. So, if you send someone pictures that do not accurately represent you, then the odds are that her visual impression of you is going to be downgraded from whatever state of mind she was in when she agreed to meet in person in the first place.

The extent to which this matters depends on many things, including where she falls on the "spectrum". I've talked in the past about my vision of a spectrum, with streetwalkers at the left side of the scale and women that preserve their virginity at the far right of it. More in the middle but going from left to right, would be escorts, then UTR girls, then Nando SBs, then true SBs, then civy girls that would never consider taking money in exchange for sex, etc. You get the idea. And obviously no girl is perfectly categorized, it's just a way to visualize where they fall in the big scheme of things. My own definition of a quality girl is one that leans more to the right side of the scale (and I should also say that my positional choice of left or right here has absolutely no political connotation, so swap left for right in this example if you prefer).

So, what I noticed over a couple of decades of online dating is that the farther they are on the left of the spectrum in my example above, the less susceptible they are to caring about any potential discrepancy between initially traded photos and the appearance of the person when they meet. It's not rocket science, girls that are more in it for the paycheck are going to care a lot less about whether they were cat-fished or mislead. Escorts don't give a shit what you look or smell like. An SB that is sizing you up in a way that expresses genuine sexual interest will certainly care.

Therefore the key to all of this is to simply NEVER DISAPPOINT AT THE M&G (assuming you're aiming for girls on the more quality side of the spectrum above). Some might say "well if I don't take 100 photos and send her the best 2, she will never meet me in the first place". Its important to understand that concept. If that statement is true, it is an indication of aiming too high (indication you either should lower your standard or prepare for more challenging searching). Luring them to a M&G with a non-representative and overly flattering photo is only going to scare them away once they actually meet you, unless they are only in it for money. And that's fine if that's the kind of girl you want.

Now let's look at that from another angle. Let's say that an SD hits up 20 girls but sends them very realistic photos. Let's say right away 12 of those never respond. Of the 8 that do, all but 2 or 3 of them do nothing but ask how much their allowance is going to be. What has happened here? The SD has just put the power of realistic photos to work for himself -- he has successfully eliminated about 17-18 timewasting pieces of work that would probably end up meeting but not following him to the FC, or making ridiculous money demands. The 2-3 girls that remain are the ones he is most likely to have the most fun with in the FC later anyway.

So let's just say the photos I send are designed to scare off the squeamish. LOL. Let's say a guy that looks like Danny DeVito is sitting there hitting up girls that look like Melanie Iglasias, but he's sending her pics of himself, which are really some guy that looks like Brad Pitt. What's going to happen when they meet? Assuming she's anything less than an escort, she's going to feel mislead, betrayed, and probably not much like fucking him (probably more like she wants to throw Papa from the train). I'm neither a Danny DeVito or a Brad Pitt, its just an illustrative example.

So part of my success going from M&G to the FC has been simply not misleading girls. Let them decide if I'm their type or not. There is no accounting for taste, some girls that aren't even that good looking never write back after I send pics, while others that are true stunners seem to have an instantly positive reaction, gushing about how handsome they think I am. THOSE are the ones that turn into good dates for me. Sending realistic and down-to-earth photos is one of the keys to filtering out girls who do not possess that genuine sexual attraction that I am seeking.

And some might say send realistic pics of you looking your best -- and I think that's fine as long as you're getting the results you want. Just know that if you send pics of yourself that are engineered to try to impress her, quality women can usually sense this right away and they see it as a vulnerability and display of insecurity. They know good and well that the Elon Musks and Mark Zuckerbergs (I. E. Real billionaires) of the modern world show up at important events wearing hoodies and sneakers if they feel like it. It's not 1950 where anyone reasonably intelligent is deluded into believing the cost of a suit is an indication of net worth anymore (unless they are really shallow and daft, or just a money-chasing ho).

[FarFarAway]

Hancock and FFA hit all the bases. I want to stress, do not push the m&g early. It smells of desperation. Unless you're targeting Utrs or pros, then anything that remotely comes off as desperate will chase the fish away.

Use flaterring pics that look like you. I didn't realize that there was a school of thought out there that advocated for sending pics that were not flattering. I guess to each his own, but most ladies I know do want to be with someone who is physically attractive. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, but as with the above, unless you're tracking Utrs or pros, you'll want to send pictures that put you in the best light. Hit the gym for a few months, shed 15 lbs, and it will make a difference. Or at least it has in my case. Just as important, you need to use pics that are of you, or don't send any at all. Nothing kills a m&g faster than if you send pics of someone who is not you, and much more attractive. I hear that one from pots all the time. The only way to save yourself there is if you have cash to burn.I guess I'd add one other thing. It is likely the case that each local 'market' for SBs is different, w / cultural preferences I couldn't begin to fathom. You may need to work that out for yourself in your bowl, and a couple of weeks may not be sufficient. So, as Fish said, there is some experimentation involved, and he recommends his Groundhog Day scenario, where he creates a new SA profile to go back to POTs he failed w / to try new techniques. You might not have to do that literally, but just switch around your profile, photos, initial contact message, etc. , until you get something that is working for your targets, and also your particular strengths. I'd guess that most of us would not be playing in the bowl if we didn't think the women were going to enjoy sex w / us, and some tasteful way to say at some stage that couldn't hurt. However, you indicate that if you can talk to a woman directly you seem to be able to close the deal, so I am guessing you know the right way to communicate that. Others (Hollywood Guy) target subs specifially and makes it clear to them in his contacts that they are going to get high quality kinky sex. To each his own. You just want to offer as much as you can that isn't $.

[John HandCock]

I guess I'd add one other thing. It is likely the case that each local 'market' for SBs is different, w / cultural preferences I couldn't begin to fathom. You may need to work that out for yourself in your bowl, and a couple of weeks may not be sufficient. So, as Fish said, there is some experimentation involved, and he recommends his Groundhog Day scenario, where he creates a new SA profile to go back to POTs he failed w / to try new techniques. You might not have to do that literally, but just switch around your profile, photos, initial contact message, etc. , until you get something that is working for your targets, and also your particular strengths. I'd guess that most of us would not be playing in the bowl if we didn't think the women were going to enjoy sex w / us, and some tasteful way to say at some stage that couldn't hurt. However, you indicate that if you can talk to a woman directly you seem to be able to close the deal, so I am guessing you know the right way to communicate that. Others (Hollywood Guy) target subs specifially and makes it clear to them in his contacts that they are going to get high quality kinky sex. To each his own. You just want to offer as much as you can that isn't $.Girls thst have several different profiles get crucified by the guys. Guys that create alternate profiles arent any better IMHO. A catfish is a catfish. Really have no idea why one that isn't interested is such an ego buster one would have to create xtra profiles. Jeez just move on, your paying for pussy, move to the next one. As for thinking the girls enjoy the sex some do, some don't. Don't forget your payi g them. If the payment is good most are staying because of the money, not because your great in the sack. When that idea enters your thought process cut the money off and see if they still sucking your cock for nothing. My profile states specifically that I'm seeking a sub, I don't have to waste time texting back and forth because the girls know right off the bat what I'm looking for. Profile has stated that for a few years and is quite a time saver. This isn't rocket science that everyone seems to want to make it.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Hancock, out of curiosity, why bother with the bowl? Why not just pay for high end escorts? You're right. Certain girls will bang you if the money is good enough, regardless if you're any good in the sack.

I'm a firm believer in allowance, but if that's the only reason a baby is banging me, then from my perspective, it would be a lot easier to just hire a high end pro. That's just me though.


Girls thst have several different profiles get crucified by the guys. Guys that create alternate profiles arent any better IMHO. A catfish is a catfish. Really have no idea why one that isn't interested is such an ego buster one would have to create xtra profiles. Jeez just move on, your paying for pussy, move to the next one. As for thinking the girls enjoy the sex some do, some don't. Don't forget your payi g them. If the payment is good most are staying because of the money, not because your great in the sack. When that idea enters your thought process cut the money off and see if they still sucking your cock for nothing. My profile states specifically that I'm seeking a sub, I don't have to waste time texting back and forth because the girls know right off the bat what I'm looking for. Profile has stated that for a few years and is quite a time saver. This isn't rocket science that everyone seems to want to make it.

[John HandCock]

Hancock, out of curiosity, why bother with the bowl? Why not just pay for high end escorts? You're right. Certain girls will bang you if the money is good enough, regardless if you're any good in the sack.

I'm a firm believer in allowance, but if that's the only reason a baby is banging me, then from my perspective, it would be a lot easier to just hire a high end pro. That's just me though.Why else is a 20 something girls banging much older guys but for the money. Are they taking you home to mom and dad, introducing you to friends, taking you to keg party?

There is always exceptions but cut the sugar off and see how long they hang. In the end your paying for that GFE the same as from that high end pro.

Seversl girls I've talked to have had long term arrangements of a year or more. Usually what ends them is the guy getting transferred to another area. When I've told them I was sorry.

They lost the arrangement the replies have been "Oh that's ok, I never really liked him but the money was good".

Now not sure what you consider a long term arrangement but I doubt very few on this forum last that long. If the girl really never cared about the guy after fucking him that long then she has put on one hell of a show for him to stay that long. Guys tend to get feeling all good about themselves in these arrangements but seem to overlook the fact she is still being paid. If you cut the sugar and she stays then you can feel good about your new gf. Oh now all this is if your exclusive. If she has a rotation of sds then that's not even a discussion.

[JZLizard]

Why else is a 20 something girls banging much older guys but for the money. Are they taking you home to mom and dad, introducing you to friends, taking you to keg party?In some cases, yes. I've had SBs introduce me to their friends, and I've had them claim they want me to meet their mom on the first date. I think the fact most of the girls I've met have daddy issues one way or another probably means they are replacing their dad with me rather than hoping I will hang out with him, but I did have one SB send me pics of her and her father very early on in communications (not sure what that was about).


There is always exceptions but cut the sugar off and see how long they hang. In the end your paying for that GFE the same as from that high end pro.But there have been countless guys posting to this forum that have proven that this is your experience, and perhaps even a similar experience to others your age, but it does not represent the majority of SDs.

Albert Einstein was quoted as saying that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You've asked in the forum countless times what is the point in paying an SB if she doesn't want to be paid, and some of us have explained our motives.

Why should we continue explaining this to you if you've made up your mind you're only going to believe what your own experiences have allowed you to believe? Its become repetitive and beyond tiresome. I think its time for you to accept that your experiences in the bowl, at your age and in your geographic region are not representative of the entire SD community.

[DrMcNaughty]

Met the fam-I think she was just trying to piss her dad off! He was the same age as me. Which was a bit weird at first but I just rolled with it. Albeit our relationaship was more traditional than standard sb thingy. But it was funny as fuck having coffee with pops 15 minutes after I had dumped a huge load in his 20 year old daughters ass, haha!

Met and fucked friends- I had a chill tryst w SB May-July. She wanted a three way with her sexy livein lover. We had a few three somes then I eneded up grooving on her lover more and it was very apparent when I was banging her in bed next to her. We ended up having some wild kinky fun sans original sb. They split up for a while, now theyre back together and wanting another McNaughty 3 some. Life is grand!


In some cases, yes. I've had SBs introduce me to their friends, and I've had them claim they want me to meet their mom on the first date. I think the fact most of the girls I've met have daddy issues one way or another probably means they are replacing their dad with me rather than hoping I will hang out with him, but I did have one SB send me pics of her and her father very early on in communications (not sure what that was about).

But there have been countless guys posting to this forum that have proven that this is your experience, and perhaps even a similar experience to others your age, but it does not represent the majority of SDs.

Albert Einstein was quoted as saying that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You've asked in the forum countless times what is the point in paying an SB if she doesn't want to be paid, and some of us have explained our motives.

Why should we continue explaining this to you if you've made up your mind you're only going to believe what your own experiences have allowed you to believe? Its become repetitive and beyond tiresome. I think its time for you to accept that your experiences in the bowl, at your age and in your geographic region are not representative of the entire SD community.

[John HandCock]

In some cases, yes. I've had SBs introduce me to their friends, and I've had them claim they want me to meet their mom on the first date. I think the fact most of the girls I've met have daddy issues one way or another probably means they are replacing their dad with me rather than hoping I will hang out with him, but I did have one SB send me pics of her and her father very early on in communications (not sure what that was about).

But there have been countless guys posting to this forum that have proven that this is your experience, and perhaps even a similar experience to others your age, but it does not represent the majority of SDs.

Albert Einstein was quoted as saying that the definition of insanity was doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. You've asked in the forum countless times what is the point in paying an SB if she doesn't want to be paid, and some of us have explained our motives.

Why should we continue explaining this to you if you've made up your mind you're only going to believe what your own experiences have allowed you to believe? Its become repetitive and beyond tiresome. I think its time for you to accept that your experiences in the bowl, at your age and in your geographic region are not representative of the entire SD community.LOL your posting on a forum where your paying young girls for sex. Like I said there are exceptions and sadly I'm not gods gift to women any longer as some are. I live in a real world and have a pretty firm grasp as to how things work so I love good fiction as much as anyone. Oh as you like to point out there is a ignore button. Feel free to use it if I've become tiresome. I just look for the post that go on and on, on and on and scroll past them if I don't get to tired.

[IluvSmellyFish]

If that's the worldview you hold, the question still remains. Why even play in the bowl? If the analysis is that these girls are banging you solely for the money, and assuming you recognize that most of these girls are having sex with multiple partners, why not simply use back page or eros to find utrs or pros? It would simplify life considerable rather than messaging back and forth, going on dates, buying dinner, etc.

I guess there's the possibility that some sds like the "innocence" of a sb who they think are not having sex with anyone else, but I've found that pots with sleep with the highest bidder, and don't care about anything else, are often sleeping with multiple daddies and are no different than an escort. Nothing wrong with that at all in my opinion. I still play in that world and have my go to agencies, but when that's what I'm looking for, I call my go to agencies, I don't spend hours messaging back and forth, m&ging, and then wining and dining.

I don't disagree that sugar plays a huge role in why a young 19 or 20 something is having sex with you, but in my humble opinion, there are a lot of other factors in play.

No, they're not taking you home to meet mom and dad, but the babies I bed are with me because they are tired of the keg parties and want to go to an upscale restaurant to drink a bottle of wine with a nice meal. I've met plenty of babies that have told me that they wouldn't sleep with certain guys, no matter how much. Of course whether I believe that or not is a different story. I doubt any pot playing in the bowl would turn down a SD, so long as the allowance was right.

Part of the fun, at least for me, is playing the game. To each his own.


Why else is a 20 something girls banging much older guys but for the money. Are they taking you home to mom and dad, introducing you to friends, taking you to keg party?

There is always exceptions but cut the sugar off and see how long they hang. In the end your paying for that GFE the same as from that high end pro.

Seversl girls I've talked to have had long term arrangements of a year or more. Usually what ends them is the guy getting transferred to another area. When I've told them I was sorry.

They lost the arrangement the replies have been "Oh that's ok, I never really liked him but the money was good".

Now not sure what you consider a long term arrangement but I doubt very few on this forum last that long. If the girl really never cared about the guy after fucking him that long then she has put on one hell of a show for him to stay that long. Guys tend to get feeling all good about themselves in these arrangements but seem to overlook the fact she is still being paid. If you cut the sugar and she stays then you can feel good about your new gf. Oh now all this is if your exclusive. If she has a rotation of sds then that's not even a discussion.

[JZLizard]

LOL your posting on a forum where your paying young girls for sex.Yes but its called the Sex Guide, not necessarily the Paid Sex Guide. This thread is about whether SBs are pros or amateurs, and if there were a clear cut answer the thread would have never been initiated in the first place.



Like I said there are exceptions and sadly I'm not gods gift to women any longer as some are. I live in a real world and have a pretty firm grasp as to how things work so I love good fiction as much as anyone. Oh as you like to point out there is a ignore button. Feel free to use it if I've become tiresome. I just look for the post that go on and on, on and on and scroll past them if I don't get to tired.You are fully entitled to your own fictional world, but just don't be surprised if you get called on it if trying to project that world onto the lives of others, because I can tell you not everyone agrees with your perspective. I use the ignore button very sparingly, just as I very sparingly make suggestions like I have today. For the most part I try to let the cards fall where they may on these matters, but for whatever reason I thought I might be doing you a favor to let you know that you are a bit out of touch on how it works for some of the brothers here. Take that for whatever it's worth, I'm not trying to deny you the right to your opinion, just pointing out that you don't seem to have a firm grasp of the difference between opinion and fact. Carry on with the rants though if it makes you a happier person, it's tiresome as I said but not particularly bothering me. I rarely do more than a quick visual scan of your posts and I don't always do that. I do think the forum needs less repetition instead of more, just because of the sheer volume of posts though.

[JZLizard]

Met the fam-I think she was just trying to piss her dad off! He was the same age as me. Which was a bit weird at first but I just rolled with it. Albeit our relationaship was more traditional than standard sb thingy. But it was funny as fuck having coffee with pops 15 minutes after I had dumped a huge load in his 20 year old daughters ass, haha!

Met and fucked friends- I had a chill tryst w SB May-July. She wanted a three way with her sexy livein lover. We had a few three somes then I eneded up grooving on her lover more and it was very apparent when I was banging her in bed next to her. We ended up having some wild kinky fun sans original sb. They split up for a while, now theyre back together and wanting another McNaughty 3 some. Life is grand!There are a lot of SDs that have similar experiences. It's kind of unfortunate that a handful have committed themselves to using sugaring as an alternative escort mechanism. If they opened their eyes and understood the possibilities, they could possibly pursue them and ultimately have more fun in the bowl. Tunnel vision is what it is though.

That said, I have no doubt that age will impact my game should I stay in the bowl into my social security years. Honestly even now I can only deal with a 18-22 year old in small doses, I may want to pay them to go away as quickly as possible when I'm 65 or 70, I can fully envision that. And I'm sure I'd be beyond amazed if I'm 70 and some 25 year old tells me she wants more than just an SD/SB arrangement. But at any given age, a 30 year age difference is perfectly doable.

[FarFarAway]

OK, let's get off this latest jag. I troll UTR ads on CL, those posted in the Resume section w / photos (southern California). I've been messaging w / a girl who's cute but says she has a BF right now, and I'm trying to turn her. This is a message I got from her today. Interpret it as you wish.

I wanted to respond back to you. That's only fair. You wrote to me.

My gf's have sugar daddies. The men are nice to them. & they really enjoy the great sex.

Everybody want's young pretty pussy & nice tits 2 suck on.

It's got to feel so good when you shoot in there. Nice & deep.

Your paying for pleasure. But you pay 4 it somehow anyway huh. LOL?

So your married. Kool.

But you would like a younger girl to enjoy right?

[Member #5344]

So I'm in NYC and have an overnight planned with an SB I had been chatting up for a week or so. Sexy photos shared, naughty messages, all the good stuff.

She comes to my hotel room, we have a drink and I notice a tattoo on her arm that I had not noticed in her photos.

"What does your tattoo say?

"Its my Dad's name".

"I take it he is no longer with us".

"yes, sadly".

Hate to benefit from the misfortune of others, but is it any wonder you want to be banged into next Tuesday by a guy your dad's age?

Back in January, had another SB tell me what an unambitious man her father was, not helping her out with college so even going to a state school landed her $40 K in debt. Yet an hour after dinner she is screaming "fuck my ass, Daddy", a recurring theme throughout the night.

[JZLizard]

Hate to benefit from the misfortune of others, but is it any wonder you want to be banged into next Tuesday by a guy your dad's age?
Back in January, had another SB tell me what an unambitious man her father was, not helping her out with college so even going to a state school landed her $40 K in debt. Yet an hour after dinner she is screaming "fuck my ass, Daddy", a recurring theme throughout the night.It's weird, but I've written before about how the daddy issues I've encountered can be placed into one of two broad categories, either the Absent Daddy or the Tough-Act-To-Follow Daddy.

The absent daddy is usually something like her dad just wasn't around (raised by a single mom, or dad's an alcoholic, or just abandoned them, or otherwise did a shit job of participating in her life).

The tough act to follow daddy is the father that spoils the little princess, being the sole anchor of her life and thus setting the expectation that only an older man can properly worship her and make life's stress go away (and I don't just mean financially, I mean in the way he treats her and talks to her).

From what I can tell both types of daddy issue gravitate them toward dating older men. Even if you ask about their dating history prior to their first foray into sugaring, you'll find a preference for much older men.

Sounds like yours might have had a hybrid scenario, maybe a spoiling daddy that passed away (transforming him from the tough act to follow to absent), resulting in a perfect storm of daddy issues.

I think women with more "average" daddies (actively participates in her life but doesn't spoil) are more likely to seek out age appropriate mates.

[FTP1999]

Really guys,

You found hot young things willing to fuck you and you are bickering as to why??

Honestly, who gives a shit? Just be grateful and enjoy, for sooner than you think you will miss these days.

I tell my ladies I am going to believe whatever story they tell me.

I focus on making sure we are going to enjoy our time while we are together, period.

I don't are why, I care that she is there with me when she has many choices to be elsewhere. For that, I am grateful and I am going to make her feel like a little princess.

[StormyTuesday]

As some of you may remember I was busted by the SO two and half months ago and although she got over it after a few days I elected to cut back from 2 to 3 times a week in the FC to once, maybe twice a week. But the big change in my MO was converting from 2 "business trips" overnight out per week in a 1. 5 to 2 hour radius of home to typically afternoon meets within a 30 to 45 minute radius. Sadly in a way this meant I would no longer routinely have the luxury of 4 to 6 hour SB dates (or even overnights) but instead needing to schedule 1. 5 to 2 hour FC dates. So this translates into having a collection of basically "4 hour alibis" available to offer up to the SO. Following is a list of my top ten favorites the past three years, although you will note I have the advantage of owning both a Harley m / c and a 4 WD wrangler jeep.

1. Motorcycle rides. Probably most of the brothers are not inclined to jump out and get a m / c but if you can then you should. Every Sunday (weather permitting) the SO knows is my "ride day" and not to expect a quick text response. Also gives the option of joining a bike rider club (Harley HOG chapter is ideal) and then skip the scheduled rides for the FC dates.

2. Jeep 4 wheelin' - I have a "friend" with a jeep who lives an hour away. Every so often "we" go 4 wheelin' usually on the Sundays when the weather is not good for m / c rides. Don't make the mistake I made; the SO one time asked me what his name was and I had to make up a name real quick.

3. Pick-up at the airport. I have a "business client" who travels into the local area for a week at a time. Instead of him having to rent a car for the week I pick him up at the airport on mondays and bring him back to fridays. The assumption is I take him to his hotel which is close to his employer's location. Sometimes we "have dinner at a restaurant. " Sometimes the flight "gets delayed. ".

4. Guy Movie. I will tell the SO I am going to a movie that I know she would not want to see. I try to wait until the movie is only playing at a theater at least 30 to 45 minutes from home.

5. Car repair issue. I have an older car (jeep) but any car could suddenly have critical issues (e. G. brakes, etc) that require going to a car repair shop and waiting a few hours while they "work on the car. ".

6. Auto Trader. Maybe it is time to consider getting a newer used car. Find some sellers that are a couple of hours away from home "to look at" their car.

7. Craigs List specialty item for sale. Same idea as Auto Trader but to look at some hard to find specialty item that you have a personal need for.

8. Trade association / Men's club association. Join an association with monthly or quarterly meetings, preferably an hour or more from home. When I get their email announcements as to date and time I always forward them to the SO. I have one particular trade association that meets twice a year in Chicago. For the past two years I have driven to the local airport for the 2 day trips but never got on the plane.

9. Out of town friend travelling through. Every so often an "old friend" (high school, college, etc) will be passing through the area, in which case we will meet for lunch, dinner, etc someplace an hour or so away.

10. Out of town funeral. As we get older occasionally an "old friend" from high school, college, etc passes away in a town a few hours or more away.

11. (Bonus) Trail Hiking. Two years ago I started to do trail hiking to prepare for a year of training for the Grand Canyon Rim to Rim hike. My "favorite trail" was an hour and half away and provided an easy 4 to 6 hour alibi.

If anyone has their own to share then by all means post them. One of the brothers this summer posted his "fitness club gym" alibi but, for me, my gym is 5 minutes away and does not give me an easy 4 hour block of time.

[JZLizard]

If anyone has their own to share then by all means post them. One of the brothers this summer posted his "fitness club gym" alibi but, for me, my gym is 5 minutes away and does not give me an easy 4 hour block of time.One of my favorite tricks (that should work to some degree for most brothers) is to pick some event in a city other than your hometown that you "need" to go to for an overnighter (without mentioning to the SO that the overnighter involves some 20 year old in your bed).

There are several components to this that are important to perfect execution. It doesn't have to be a perfect execution to get you laid without getting caught, but there are certain things you can do that make it almost bullet proof:

1. Invite your SO to go with you, but make sure the event is something she has zero interest in and make sure she already has a schedule conflict the day after that date before asking (I. E. Due to her normal work schedule or whatever). She's going to say she can't go and encourage you to go alone in most cases if you choose correctly. Think hard about something you have some remote interest in, but that bores her to tears (an industry conference she has no interest in? Sporting event? Concert for certain music genres she hates? She'll be happy to tell you to save the expense of two tickets because she can't go).

2. Choose an event that you can provide some proof of purchase for later. If you have no intention of actually attending the event, try to buy a ticket to something you can easily refund or sell, so that at least you have a printed ticket receipt to print out. If refunding or selling the ticket is not an option, just make sure it's a cheap enough expense that you don't mind eating the cost.

3. Leave indications of everything about the event laying where she can see them in advance but don't make it obvious (like leave them laying on your desk where she would find them if she's looking, but don't leave them on the coffee table in the living room).

4. If you do go to the event, make sure you purchase only one ticket, and don't take your SB with you to the event even if, for example, your SB is into sports and its her favorite team on the planet. It's just not worth the risk of being photographed with her by a PI that your wife hired. Knowing what event you are going to ahead of time is a private investigator's dream scenario.

5. Web based ticket sales make it easy to find candidate events in a given city or on a particular date. Usually you have to choose one of those two factors and work everything else around it, and that can at times be challenging. For example you might have an SB that you really want to see in Miami, and you really want to do it on November 1st, but as you look around the only event you can find on that date is some sports event that your SO knows you have little to no interest in. Don't do it. Either change the city or change the dates or change the SB. The other aspects of this trick, such as the cost of the hotel and / or event itself, make it not worth your time to introduce unnecessary risk. The lack of risk, the ease of verifying your story, and the overall believability is the only reason to pull this one in the first place.

Now, for bonus points.... if you're able to schedule all of this in such a way that it actually is an event that you do want to attend (or need to for work purposes), even better! Schedule your SB date after the event.

Also it should go without saying, but its important with any scam like this to be aware of surrounding circumstances. If you've recently started working out more, showing heightened interest in your appearance, spending more time alone on the computer/smartphone, coming home from work later etc., then going out of town for any reason is likely to be suspect. It's something that needs to be integrated into your lifestyle slowly and on an ongoing basis rather than something your read on a forum and spontaneously decide to try out.

[Madaboutmax]

As part of my qualification process, I always ask about their previous experience or interest in older men. I'm surprised how many younger women prefer and have traditionally dated older men. Sometimes their definition of "older" is 10-20 years and not 30-40, but it is still an interesting phenomenon. I think dating older men is much more acceptable today for the 18-25 age group then it ever was. So many young women have been treated poorly by young men that dating older men or dating women is almost considered normal. Combine the with Daddy issues mentioned above and you have a great opportunity for some of us older gentlemen.

I steer away from women that have not expressed any interest in older men. They tend to be in it for only the money. No matter how good of actors they are, it's never as good as someone that truly enjoys the experience. That's why I tend to steer away from escorts or UTR's. I can tell their heart isn't it it.

The downside is that it does run the risk of unintended attachment on both sides.


It's weird, but I've written before about how the daddy issues I've encountered can be placed into one of two broad categories, either the Absent Daddy or the Tough-Act-To-Follow Daddy.

The absent daddy is usually something like her dad just wasn't around (raised by a single mom, or dad's an alcoholic, or just abandoned them, or otherwise did a shit job of participating in her life).

The tough act to follow daddy is the father that spoils the little princess, being the sole anchor of her life and thus setting the expectation that only an older man can properly worship her and make life's stress go away (and I don't just mean financially, I mean in the way he treats her and talks to her).

From what I can tell both types of daddy issue gravitate them toward dating older men. Even if you ask about their dating history prior to their first foray into sugaring, you'll find a preference for much older men.

Sounds like yours might have had a hybrid scenario, maybe a spoiling daddy that passed away (transforming him from the tough act to follow to absent), resulting in a perfect storm of daddy issues.

I think women with more "average" daddies (actively participates in her life but doesn't spoil) are more likely to seek out age appropriate mates.

[Doc2016]

I completely agree with JZLizard's comments. I feel you really have to start planting these seeds long term. Even before you have a baby, you should be slowly altering your schedule and / or working out, looking better, etc. Thus when you do have that PYT, there is no sudden change in behavior. Hell, even if you just sit in a parking lot for a bit while you are "doing an event" or such, it's setting that behavior up for later on. You have to think long term with these things. Start slow and small, slowly build. It's the sudden change that gets you caught. If it is taking money out of a noticeable account, start with smaller amounts. Say you had lunch, or some hobby that you use cash for. Save that money up for gifting or such. Enough drips in the sink with eventually overflow it. Nothing should be done spur of the moment. Slow and steady wins always. Quick and brash gets you busted.


One of my favorite tricks (that should work to some degree for most brothers) is to pick some event in a city other than your hometown that you "need" to go to for an overnighter (without mentioning to the SO that the overnighter involves some 20 year old in your bed).

There are several components to this that are important to perfect execution. It doesn't have to be a perfect execution to get you laid without getting caught, but there are certain things you can do that make it almost bullet proof:

1. Invite your SO to go with you, but make sure the event is something she has zero interest in and make sure she already has a schedule conflict the day after that date before asking (I. E. Due to her normal work schedule or whatever). She's going to say she can't go and encourage you to go alone in most cases if you choose correctly. Think hard about something you have some remote interest in, but that bores her to tears (an industry conference she has no interest in? Sporting event? Concert for certain music genres she hates? She'll be happy to tell you to save the expense of two tickets because she can't go).

2. Choose an event that you can provide some proof of purchase for later. If you have no intention of actually attending the event, try to buy a ticket to something you can easily refund or sell, so that at least you have a printed ticket receipt to print out. If refunding or selling the ticket is not an option, just make sure it's a cheap enough expense that you don't mind eating the cost.

3. Leave indications of everything about the event laying where she can see them in advance but don't make it obvious (like leave them laying on your desk where she would find them if she's looking, but don't leave them on the coffee table in the living room).

4. If you do go to the event, make sure you purchase only one ticket, and don't take your SB with you to the event even if, for example, your SB is into sports and its her favorite team on the planet. It's just not worth the risk of being photographed with her by a PI that your wife hired. Knowing what event you are going to ahead of time is a private investigator's dream scenario.

5. Web based ticket sales make it easy to find candidate events in a given city or on a particular date. Usually you have to choose one of those two factors and work everything else around it, and that can at times be challenging. For example you might have an SB that you really want to see in Miami, and you really want to do it on November 1st, but as you look around the only event you can find on that date is some sports event that your SO knows you have little to no interest in. Don't do it. Either change the city or change the dates or change the SB. The other aspects of this trick, such as the cost of the hotel and / or event itself, make it not worth your time to introduce unnecessary risk. The lack of risk, the ease of verifying your story, and the overall believability is the only reason to pull this one in the first place.

Now, for bonus points.... if you're able to schedule all of this in such a way that it actually is an event that you do want to attend (or need to for work purposes), even better! Schedule your SB date after the event.

Also it should go without saying, but its important with any scam like this to be aware of surrounding circumstances. If you've recently started working out more, showing heightened interest in your appearance, spending more time alone on the computer/smartphone, coming home from work later etc., then going out of town for any reason is likely to be suspect. It's something that needs to be integrated into your lifestyle slowly and on an ongoing basis rather than something your read on a forum and spontaneously decide to try out.

[DrMcNaughty]

Whats UTR? Thanks.


OK, let's get off this latest jag. I troll UTR ads on CL, those posted in the Resume section w / photos (southern California). I've been messaging w / a girl who's cute but says she has a BF right now, and I'm trying to turn her. This is a message I got from her today. Interpret it as you wish.

I wanted to respond back to you. That's only fair. You wrote to me.

My gf's have sugar daddies. The men are nice to them. & they really enjoy the great sex.

Everybody want's young pretty pussy & nice tits 2 suck on.

It's got to feel so good when you shoot in there. Nice & deep.

Your paying for pleasure. But you pay 4 it somehow anyway huh. LOL?

So your married. Kool.

But you would like a younger girl to enjoy right?

[VeryBigBuck]

Have to share, I met a 22 year old potential SB from SA Monday after work. She lives with her mother, so I had to drive by her house and pick her up. She is 5-8, slender, half asian and was dressed like I imagine she dresses like when she goes out on the weekends to hook up. Needlessmto say very hot.

I had planned to take her for a quick bite to eat to break the ice, but when I told her so her response was, " ok, if you are hungry. " My response was, so are you up to go to a hotel? 20 minutes later we were naked on the bed at the hotel and I was getting her warmed up. I have been with a lot of women but this one had the best body that I have ever seen. Her skills in bed were not great, but they can be improved as she is a willing student and I don't mind being the teacher.

Long story short, we left the hotel with no mention of sugar and she very happy with the sugar I gave her.

[FarFarAway]

As some of you may remember I was busted by the SO two and half months ago and although she got over it after a few days I elected to cut back from 2 to 3 times a week in the FC to once, maybe twice a week. But the big change in my MO was converting from 2 "business trips" overnight out per week in a 1. 5 to 2 hour radius of home to typically afternoon meets within a 30 to 45 minute radius. Sadly in a way this meant I would no longer routinely have the luxury of 4 to 6 hour SB dates (or even overnights) but instead needing to schedule 1. 5 to 2 hour FC dates. So this translates into having a collection of basically "4 hour alibis" available to offer up to the SO. Following is a list of my top ten favorites the past three years, although you will note I have the advantage of owning both a Harley m / c and a 4 WD wrangler jeep.

If anyone has their own to share then by all means post them. One of the brothers this summer posted his "fitness club gym" alibi but, for me, my gym is 5 minutes away and does not give me an easy 4 hour block of time.ST, I congratulate you for putting all this together, but I can also say, brother, you got it bad. There's a monkey on your back. I recall when you were busted. I am amazed you've gotten to this stage, but I wouldn't assume you are home free. You are into the bowl hook line and sinker. Make sure you have all backup plans in place should the SO have a change of heart. Can you really think what you are doing is fooling her, after she has been alerted?

[Vasail]

One of my favorite tricks (that should work to some degree for most brothers) is to pick some event in a city other than your hometown that you "need" to go to for an overnighter (without mentioning to the SO that the overnighter involves some 20 year old in your bed).

Also it should go without saying, but its important with any scam like this to be aware of surrounding circumstances. If you've recently started working out more, showing heightened interest in your appearance, spending more time alone on the computer/smartphone, coming home from work later etc., then going out of town for any reason is likely to be suspect. It's something that needs to be integrated into your lifestyle slowly and on an ongoing basis rather than something your read on a forum and spontaneously decide to try out.As noted, hobbies provide excellent excuses for hours or overnights. Invest in rental properties out of town. There were always problems that needed attention! If you want to go this route, I highly recommend a place in Myrtle Beach. If you are not an investor, consider it and go visit properties. Your SO would never want to look at a nasty prospective rental house.

Second, buy a boat. Boats always need work and SB's love to go out for a ride. Keep it way out of town. It also helps if your SO dislikes boating.

[Assaholic]

Have to share, I met a 22 year old potential SB from SA Monday after work. She lives with her mother, so I had to drive by her house and pick her up. She is 5-8, slender, half asian and was dressed like I imagine she dresses like when she goes out on the weekends to hook up. Needlessmto say very hot.

I had planned to take her for a quick bite to eat to break the ice, but when I told her so her response was, " ok, if you are hungry. " My response was, so are you up to go to a hotel? 20 minutes later we were naked on the bed at the hotel and I was getting her warmed up. I have been with a lot of women but this one had the best body that I have ever seen. Her skills in bed were not great, but they can be improved as she is a willing student and I don't mind being the teacher.

Long story short, we left the hotel with no mention of sugar and she very happy with the sugar I gave her.Nice! If We had a virtual bell here, I would ring it. Can you share the sugar $, ballpark, and what part of the country, and how long it took to close the deal?

[Assaholic]

Has anyone experimented with airbnb, versus hotels / motels? Are you likely to run into the owner (s) and possibly their kids on the way in or out (which would be kinda awkward)?

[Member #5344]

Has anyone experimented with airbnb, versus hotels / motels? Are you likely to run into the owner (s) and possibly their kids on the way in or out (which would be kinda awkward)?Its only awkward if they know you. Otherwise, how would they know you aren't in town with your daughter looking at grad schools -- or if you are reasonably close in age, on a getaway date (touring the region, hence 1 night stay mid week).

You should never stay under the same roof as your hosts, so they won't know when you come and go, scream, not stay the night etc.

The bigger issue is the whole basis of AirBnB is for people to share experiences with their hosts / renters.

If they do hear screams of "fuck me in the ass, daddy" coming from the rentail in the middle of the day, you obviously don't stay the night and leave cum stained towels and sheets every where, its likely word will spread and you will be flagged as an undesireable renter.

If you think you need non-hotel accomodations regularly, you should seriously look into subletting an apartment.

[Cephlapod Love]

Whats UTR? Thanks.While I was going to advise one to help themself using the "Give a man a fish and he eats today, teach a man to fish and he eats everyday" philosophy, I see that this common term is not defined in the Forum Abbreviations.

UTR = Under The Radar.

UTR, Term commonly used for girls who are pro / semi-pro but VERY discrete in their dating activities. We can start a debate on what is UTR and what isn't, but the point is they aren't the girls with adverts everywhere, not on BP and usually no website. But they ARE pro girls as opposed to SB as used in this context. I mean really the minutia we could get into in defining UTR. If a girl posts on CL once a month, takes her post down after a few hours and only sees a couple of regulars, is she disqualified because she "advertised" on CL? I mean seriously! See how much room for debate & opinion there is?

I guess we could have a debate of the difference between SBs and UTR girls. And that could drag on for many posts. Perhaps many think of SBs as "normal" college girls or post college girls with a job who are dating older guys for fun and Sugar. The Sugar isn't their main source of income (usually) and they have some level of selectivity and aren't doing every Tom, Dick & Harry that comes along because they need to pat rent, have money for kids school trip or get tires for the car. But then again, I suspect some kind gent here has a SB that he provides help for all of those things, so we can debate the difference there too!

Oops! Spoke too soon! I see that there IS a definition in the "Sugarbaby Thread Highlights, Index, and FAQ," post #2, Definitions and Useful Info. Find this thread in the same "User Blog" section of the Richmond board, well below this one!

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ&p=2480291&viewfull=1#post2480291.

[Ulie Facedown]

ST, I congratulate you for putting all this together, but I can also say, brother, you got it bad. There's a monkey on your back. I recall when you were busted. I am amazed you've gotten to this stage, but I wouldn't assume you are home free. You are into the bowl hook line and sinker. Make sure you have all backup plans in place should the SO have a change of heart. Can you really think what you are doing is fooling her, after she has been alerted?I want to agree with the guy agreeing with JL. If the original poster was staying out regularly and then stops doing that suddenly upon being busted, well that tells her for sure that every last one of those overnights were a ruse.

Mighty tips and strategies here. Thank you for the contributions. I did use one of them recently--blew my friends off halfway through the reggae concert. Girlfriend was waiting in the nearby hotel room. Only downside was all the texts coming in as I was eating her pussy-Hey! Where are you? Did you get back to your car yet? We're going out to the bar now. Come met us. ".

[IluvSmellyFish]

Couldn't agree with VA SAIL more.

Rentals are great because they provide for a whole host of opportunites. Need to fix the place up, so I've got to run to the home improvement store for a few hours, then got to fix the toilet. Cash for improvements are a perfect cover for withdrawals for a few 100. Did your tenants tell you that they're out of town and ask you to pick up their mail? Automatic fc spot. Just tell the baby you rented on air B&B, otherwise she will have a way to track you. In between tenants? Same deal. Free fc for a week or two. Realtors must have a field day with this.

Boats are great too. Young babies love being on the water in their bikinis. Get a boat with a cuddy cabin. Again, free fc. Bang on the boat. You can also "pack a picnic with wine" and watch your dating costs drop considerably as well. They say that boats are moneypits, but that's only if you're not using them to defray sugar costs. If you're rich enough to have a boat that has a full on cabin that's docked 40 minutes away, again, use that as a room. Tell your baby to meet you at the restaurant in a different Marina, to make sure she can't trace you back to your slip.

Another one of my favorites is the poker room. Tell your so you're going to the casino. Most SOs have no desire to sit for 5 hours of grinding on a table. Cash in 1000 in chips and take a picture of them on the table, with a message that you're up huge! Your so will be happy that you're coming back with money, then cash them back out, and spend the evening out with your baby.

Those are just a few of my favorites. But the rental property and boat are huge.


As noted, hobbies provide excellent excuses for hours or overnights. Invest in rental properties out of town. There were always problems that needed attention! If you want to go this route, I highly recommend a place in Myrtle Beach. If you are not an investor, consider it and go visit properties. Your SO would never want to look at a nasty prospective rental house.

Second, buy a boat. Boats always need work and SB's love to go out for a ride. Keep it way out of town. It also helps if your SO dislikes boating.

[JZLizard]

I want to agree with the guy agreeing with JL. If the original poster was staying out regularly and then stops doing that suddenly upon being busted, well that tells her for sure that every last one of those overnights were a ruse.

Mighty tips and strategies here. Thank you for the contributions. I did use one of them recently--blew my friends off halfway through the reggae concert. Girlfriend was waiting in the nearby hotel room. Only downside was all the texts coming in as I was eating her pussy-Hey! Where are you? Did you get back to your car yet? We're going out to the bar now. Come met us. ".The only downside to all of this is that every time we reveal our techniques on a board like this, there are also SBs (some of whom are the SOs of the future) that are reading these techniques and learning how we think, which of course will work to our disadvantage in the long run. I already found a case of one little sour vag copying one of my posts verbatim and posting it on an SB blog as an example to make her point. I suppose plagiarism is one of the more sincere forms of flattery but I didn't really appreciate her gesture.

I'm sure wives and girlfriends read it too, to some extent.

[Beachesnole02]

So October ended up being a real binge. My CL experience I wrote about before produced additional hits. 8 new women in the FC, and 2 that I repeated with. Here are 3 more, the bikini is a one and done great body but turned out to be a UTR, the other 2 are keepers, as is one whose pic I won't share. I have taken down the ad, will stay with these for a while.

[VeryBigBuck]

Nice! If We had a virtual bell here, I would ring it. Can you share the sugar $, ballpark, and what part of the country, and how long it took to close the deal?This is in the Maryland area, she is self listed as practical seems very pleased with the $$.

Next I need to get my 3 x your age card punched. My best so far is 2. 94, all over 18 of course.

[Member #5570]

So October ended up being a real binge. My CL experience I wrote about before produced additional hits. 8 new women in the FC, and 2 that I repeated with. Here are 3 more, the bikini is a one and done great body but turned out to be a UTR, the other 2 are keepers, as is one whose pic I won't share. I have taken down the ad, will stay with these for a while.Hey Beachesnole02, I'd tried to send you a PM but your box is full.

[DrMcNaughty]

So October ended up being a real binge. My CL experience I wrote about before produced additional hits. 8 new women in the FC, and 2 that I repeated with. Here are 3 more, the bikini is a one and done great body but turned out to be a UTR, the other 2 are keepers, as is one whose pic I won't share. I have taken down the ad, will stay with these for a while.She needs a clean up WTF.

[Dmv113]

Youngest I had had just turned 18 but my Xscore is at 2.

I met an 18 yr old Korean girl last week and we went at it nonstop for six hours till my crotch began to hurt. How may times does that happen? LOL.


This is in the Maryland area, she is self listed as practical seems very pleased with the $$.

Next I need to get my 3 x your age card punched. My best so far is 2. 94, all over 18 of course.

[FarFarAway]

This is in the Maryland area, she is self listed as practical seems very pleased with the $$.

Next I need to get my 3 x your age card punched. My best so far is 2. 94, all over 18 of course.Let's go with ⅓ your age - 3 x your age would be pretty gross. LOL.

[Madaboutmax]

3 X is gross? In this day and age many men in their 50's still can attract younger women. Most of People Magazines Most Sexiest Men have been late 40's to early 50's for the last decade. I can tell you a mature attractive 54 year old man that stays in shape can definitely get the attention of many 18 year old girls. It's the SD sites that let's the girls act on it.

I'm almost 52 and have no problem attracting younger women. They just don't always want to tell their friends!! LOL.


Let's go with ⅓ your age - 3 x your age would be pretty gross. LOL.

[Member #5570]

3 X is gross? In this day and age many men in their 50's still can attract younger women. Most of People Magazines Most Sexiest Men have been late 40's to early 50's for the last decade. I can tell you a mature attractive 54 year old man that stays in shape can definitely get the attention of many 18 year old girls. It's the SD sites that let's the girls act on it.

I'm almost 52 and have no problem attracting younger women. They just don't always want to tell their friends!! LOL.Couldn't agree with you more.

A good looking, fit, smart, well groomed, well dressed, and charming personality mid 40 to mid 50 guy can get way more pussies than a hot young stud. I guaranteed it.

And here's a secret. Work out 3-5 days a week, eat healthy, sleep well, take proper supplements and you will look like a 40 yr old when you're in your 50's.

[FarFarAway]

Couldn't agree with you more.

A good looking, fit, smart, well groomed, well dressed, and charming personality mid 40 to mid 50 guy can get way more pussies than a hot young stud. I guaranteed it.

And here's a secret. Work out 3-5 days a week, eat healthy, sleep well, take proper supplements and you will look like a 40 yr old when you're in your 50's.You guys are math-challenged. I'm 61, so I want (and have had) that girl who is 1/3 my age (a 20 YO) - a 'female' 3 x my age would be dead / gross.

[FredMoore]

So October ended up being a real binge. My CL experience I wrote about before produced additional hits. 8 new women in the FC, and 2 that I repeated with. Here are 3 more, the bikini is a one and done great body but turned out to be a UTR, the other 2 are keepers, as is one whose pic I won't share. I have taken down the ad, will stay with these for a while.Thanks for the porn shots and sharing your exceptional fortune in the "sugar " world. No offence intended but this kind of success stretches the imagination.

[FredMoore]

Couldn't agree with you more.

A good looking, fit, smart, well groomed, well dressed, and charming personality mid 40 to mid 50 guy can get way more pussies than a hot young stud. I guaranteed it.

And here's a secret. Work out 3-5 days a week, eat healthy, sleep well, take proper supplements and you will look like a 40 yr old when you're in your 50's.All true, except the SBs want money, and will go to the guy who is more likely to be a more seasoned guy. It certainly helps if you are as Smokey says.

[DrMcNaughty]

Youngest I had had just turned 18 but my Xscore is at 2.

I met an 18 yr old Korean girl last week and we went at it nonstop for six hours till my crotch began to hurt. How may times does that happen? LOL.Some funny stories to go along with her too! We were skiing and there was problem w ski pass I got for her. The ticket checkered call pass office" mister v is here with his daughter. " haha she then said to the ticket checker. " you wouldn't be call me his daughter if you had seen him pounding my ass and pussy 2 hours ago" one of my better SD / SB non sex moments!

[E1775]

This is some really great info, seems like you've worked it out great! This is going in the good knowledge file.


Couldn't agree with VA SAIL more.

Rentals are great because they provide for a whole host of opportunites. Need to fix the place up, so I've got to run to the home improvement store for a few hours, then got to fix the toilet. Cash for improvements are a perfect cover for withdrawals for a few 100. Did your tenants tell you that they're out of town and ask you to pick up their mail? Automatic fc spot. Just tell the baby you rented on air B&B, otherwise she will have a way to track you. In between tenants? Same deal. Free fc for a week or two. Realtors must have a field day with this.

Boats are great too. Young babies love being on the water in their bikinis. Get a boat with a cuddy cabin. Again, free fc. Bang on the boat. You can also "pack a picnic with wine" and watch your dating costs drop considerably as well. They say that boats are moneypits, but that's only if you're not using them to defray sugar costs. If you're rich enough to have a boat that has a full on cabin that's docked 40 minutes away, again, use that as a room. Tell your baby to meet you at the restaurant in a different Marina, to make sure she can't trace you back to your slip.

Another one of my favorites is the poker room. Tell your so you're going to the casino. Most SOs have no desire to sit for 5 hours of grinding on a table. Cash in 1000 in chips and take a picture of them on the table, with a message that you're up huge! Your so will be happy that you're coming back with money, then cash them back out, and spend the evening out with your baby.

Those are just a few of my favorites. But the rental property and boat are huge.

[FarFarAway]

[Deleted by Admin]

I already moved this post to the Safe Sex Information and Advice thread once.

A2

[Beachesnole02]

Thanks for the porn shots and sharing your exceptional fortune in the "sugar " world. No offence intended but this kind of success stretches the imagination.I have no explanation for what happened. CL has produced a couple over the years before this, but nothing like this time. Maybe the hurricane interfered with the job opportunities they were looking for. Like I said one in the first batch, and one in the second was probably utr, I did not pick it up in the meet and greet. Of the other 6, 2 told me they had a special need for cash and did not plan on doing it more than one. How they acted when the cloths came off bore out that they were not in the business. In any event, I will not be looking again for a while, and I cannot afford another binge like that, mentally, or financially. As for the pics, I have noticed since you guys ran off HWG that none of you post anything. I am careful not to show faces or tattoos that could be identified. Since the discussions here have been more about things that happened in the past, I thought the new readers might like to know what is happening now.

[JZLizard]

As for the pics, I have noticed since you guys ran off HWG that none of you post anything. Nobody ran HWG off. He verbally attacked me and was unable to handle what followed next, so he left the Richmond thread, which made sense anyway since he doesn't even play on the east coast. Those who wanted to read his daily diary found him easily enough after that, so please leave the shit stirring out of this thread.

Some of us don't post pics because we value our own privacy and practice what we preach. I personally am not a fan of the "sharing" culture, I think it's for teenagers and facebook. I don't need validation from others that my girls are hot and they probably don't want to be posted.

The bowl is more about privacy than sharing for most people.

[Member #5344]

I've been just amazed at how clueless some of these 20 somethings are.

One SB is an honors grad from a top school who is working as a Nanny (liberal arts degree in the Obama economy. Go figure) in the DC area. Seemingly very intelligent, can talk about most subjects, active volunteer. Kind of what you hope the next generation would be.

40% of her take home pay goes to student loan payments.

In the past year.

She moved into her own apartment vs. Having 2 roommates.

Started ordering from Blue Apron in order to make cooking / shopping less stressful.

Went to Cabo for a week.

Started applying to grad schools.

Found out her mom did not Co-Sign one of her student loans, so she is on the hook for an extra $150 a month.

Complained about having her debit card info stolen at the Farmers Market and having a week's pay disappear in fraudulent charges.

Then she asks me if I know of any good, cheap hotels in NYC because grad school apps and work is SOOOO stressful she and her friends just have to have a Girls Trip to NYC before her head explodes.

Thank goodness for clueless, entitled hotties.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Good to see you back Beach! I've found CL to be a goldmine myself. I've never had much luck with the resumes section, but filled my last rotation with various ads on various sites, including CL.

Not sure why your story would generate skepticism. Having heard the stories of countless pots over the years, nothing surprises me anymore. Having the kind of success I've had in the bowl also makes lmany of the stories on this forum easy to believe.

Also the shorty economy has been great for the games I like to play. I continue to hope that more and more of these pretty young things keep majoring in things like art history!

Will update the board on my new rotation shortly.

Fish on brother.

Fish out.


I have no explanation for what happened. CL has produced a couple over the years before this, but nothing like this time. Maybe the hurricane interfered with the job opportunities they were looking for. Like I said one in the first batch, and one in the second was probably utr, I did not pick it up in the meet and greet. Of the other 6, 2 told me they had a special need for cash and did not plan on doing it more than one. How they acted when the cloths came off bore out that they were not in the business. In any event, I will not be looking again for a while, and I cannot afford another binge like that, mentally, or financially. As for the pics, I have noticed since you guys ran off HWG that none of you post anything. I am careful not to show faces or tattoos that could be identified. Since the discussions here have been more about things that happened in the past, I thought the new readers might like to know what is happening now.

[VeryBigBuck]

You guys are math-challenged. I'm 61, so I want (and have had) that girl who is 1/3 my age (a 20 YO) - a 'female' 3 x my age would be dead / gross.One word makes a big difference, my bad english.

[Member #5570]

I have no explanation for what happened. CL has produced a couple over the years before this, but nothing like this time. Maybe the hurricane interfered with the job opportunities they were looking for. Like I said one in the first batch, and one in the second was probably utr, I did not pick it up in the meet and greet. Of the other 6, 2 told me they had a special need for cash and did not plan on doing it more than one. How they acted when the cloths came off bore out that they were not in the business. In any event, I will not be looking again for a while, and I cannot afford another binge like that, mentally, or financially. As for the pics, I have noticed since you guys ran off HWG that none of you post anything. I am careful not to show faces or tattoos that could be identified. Since the discussions here have been more about things that happened in the past, I thought the new readers might like to know what is happening now.I too had some amazing successes with CL ads. They come and go, but CL just works better for me compared to SA or SD4 M.

I am always looking for new approaches and ideas to hunt, so if you don't mind sharing your methods on CL feel free to shoot me a PM. I am opened to sharing my ways if you're interested, though I doubt you need it want to.

[Xenpar]

+1 on the planting seeds early advice. Slowly integrate the schedule that will allow for extracurricular, even if you aren't actively looking yet. That includes your overall health and fitness. "This is where I want to be in six months. ".

[FarFarAway]

Well said Mike. Very well said. It's also, in a nutshell, how one converts an SB from a demanding POT to a into a submissive that will do whatever you want, whenever you want.I want to revive this part of the thread to explore how to manipulate SBs. Help me out, Fish.

[FarFarAway]

I have a couple of girls close to me who put right in their profile they are submissive. I know it is pretty common for SBs to be this way. I am not naturally dominant, but I have a few ideas. I just like these particular girls for their looks and other stuff, and want to 1) get them and 2) please them. I'd like any pointers anyone is willing to share on #1 in terms of messaging approaches. The things guys have been posting about #2 are: verbal stuff, hair pulling, spanking, ropes. I've been giving my babies some orders at least. What else are subs wanting done to them? Let's try to collect a lot of resources in one place. Perhaps it can get added to the highlights.

[FarFarAway]

I posted a few months back on this topic. I use three subscription based services. PeopleSmart (about $25 every 6 months), Spokeo (about $40 a year) and Intelius (about $100 a year). I use these also for the type of work I am in. People Smart seems to be better getting owner names of cell phone #s, Spokeo is good with email addresses and also has a arrest record option (though they don't tell you the nature of the offense) and Intellius's specialty is finding individuals and their relatives, addresses, birth date, etc). Although I always love it when their cell phone takes me right to their FB page but I have also used the "Find Friend" feature on facebook by entering extra info that I may already know (name of employer, school, hometown, current town) with only a first name.Any update on this, ST? I just looked at PeopleSmart, and they are now on a monthly billing process w / a specific # of searches.

[StormyTuesday]

Any update on this, ST? I just looked at PeopleSmart, and they are now on a monthly billing process w / a specific # of searches.Glad you asked. I recently stumbled onto a free site, www.atlaspublicrecords.com. Their data shows the criminal records, usually with the description of the offense. Also shows the address and birthdate. Doesn't pull up everyone I have put in but if the girl has an unusual name then you will have better luck.

[RappaHannock]

So recently I went on the SA website. I actually thought you would have to pay to set up an account. To my surprise, it allowed me to set up a profile / account etc. Without any membership fee. So I did that and got it all set up. Then I started getting all of these emails that my profile had been been viewed. Ok understand that. Some said my profile had been favorited. So my first question is what does that really mean if anything?

Then some of the emails said I had been messaged. When I tried to open the message, then I got a message that I had to upgrade my account, and there is a membership fee associated with that. Ok, that's cool but the only option for payment is a credit card. Like many on that site I suspect, I am married and I don't have a credit card in just my name. Furthermore, if you use a credit card, then you have to provide your name etc. Etc. Not sure I want to do that. So I guess my question is, is there any other way to sign up and pay fees other than by credit card? As an example another membership I have to another site allows you to pay by mailing in money order but I did not see that option.

Final question is if someone sends you are message, is it likely something that has potential and real or is it just a fishing expedition.

I am new at this so sorry for the questions but hopefully some will be understanding and provide some information. Just trying to learn. Any other info that you feel would be helpful would be appreciated as well. If you prefer to PM me, that would be fine. Thanks in advance.

[Madaboutmax]

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?15100-Sugarbaby-Thread-Highlights-Index-and-FAQ

There is a wealth of information in this thread that will answer your questions. Fortunately, there is also an index to Frequently Asked Questions and some of the best replies to those questions. I've attached the link above to help you find the FAQ.

Best of luck.


So recently I went on the SA website. I actually thought you would have to pay to set up an account. To my surprise, it allowed me to set up a profile / account etc. Without any membership fee. So I did that and got it all set up. Then I started getting all of these emails that my profile had been been viewed. Ok understand that. Some said my profile had been favorited. So my first question is what does that really mean if anything?

Then some of the emails said I had been messaged. When I tried to open the message, then I got a message that I had to upgrade my account, and there is a membership fee associated with that. Ok, that's cool but the only option for payment is a credit card. Like many on that site I suspect, I am married and I don't have a credit card in just my name. Furthermore, if you use a credit card, then you have to provide your name etc. Etc. Not sure I want to do that. So I guess my question is, is there any other way to sign up and pay fees other than by credit card? As an example another membership I have to another site allows you to pay by mailing in money order but I did not see that option.

Final question is if someone sends you are message, is it likely something that has potential and real or is it just a fishing expedition.

I am new at this so sorry for the questions but hopefully some will be understanding and provide some information. Just trying to learn. Any other info that you feel would be helpful would be appreciated as well. If you prefer to PM me, that would be fine. Thanks in advance.

[DrMcNaughty]

I have a couple of girls close to me who put right in their profile they are submissive. I know it is pretty common for SBs to be this way. I am not naturally dominant, but I have a few ideas. I just like these particular girls for their looks and other stuff, and want to 1) get them and 2) please them. I'd like any pointers anyone is willing to share on #1 in terms of messaging approaches. The things guys have been posting about #2 are: verbal stuff, hair pulling, spanking, ropes. I've been giving my babies some orders at least. What else are subs wanting done to them? Let's try to collect a lot of resources in one place. Perhaps it can get added to the highlights.Some just arent cut out fot it. There are lotsa fun restsr=traints. Get creative. Are you creative?

[FarFarAway]

So recently I went on the SA website. I actually thought you would have to pay to set up an account. To my surprise, it allowed me to set up a profile / account etc. Without any membership fee. So I did that and got it all set up. Then I started getting all of these emails that my profile had been been viewed. Ok understand that. Some said my profile had been favorited. So my first question is what does that really mean if anything?

Then some of the emails said I had been messaged. When I tried to open the message, then I got a message that I had to upgrade my account, and there is a membership fee associated with that. Ok, that's cool but the only option for payment is a credit card. Like many on that site I suspect, I am married and I don't have a credit card in just my name. Furthermore, if you use a credit card, then you have to provide your name etc. Etc. Not sure I want to do that. So I guess my question is, is there any other way to sign up and pay fees other than by credit card? As an example another membership I have to another site allows you to pay by mailing in money order but I did not see that option.

Final question is if someone sends you are message, is it likely something that has potential and real or is it just a fishing expedition.

I am new at this so sorry for the questions but hopefully some will be understanding and provide some information. Just trying to learn. Any other info that you feel would be helpful would be appreciated as well. If you prefer to PM me, that would be fine. Thanks in advance.One specific of my fairly recent experiience getting on SA is that favoriting doesn't mean much unless she's local. I keep my profile hidden otherwise I get contaacted from all over the world w / people I have no interest in. I favorite girls b / c that enables me to keep track of them, see when they've been on, etc. Perhaps they do the same to us.

[Enzo Amore]

I run into these brainless girls all the time. I can't believe how dumb they are. It kind of makes me sick.

I think all these girls are really in NYC to protest Trump winning the election.


I've been just amazed at how clueless some of these 20 somethings are.

One SB is an honors grad from a top school who is working as a Nanny (liberal arts degree in the Obama economy. Go figure) in the DC area. Seemingly very intelligent, can talk about most subjects, active volunteer. Kind of what you hope the next generation would be.

40% of her take home pay goes to student loan payments.

In the past year.

She moved into her own apartment vs. Having 2 roommates.

Started ordering from Blue Apron in order to make cooking / shopping less stressful.

Went to Cabo for a week.

Started applying to grad schools.

Found out her mom did not Co-Sign one of her student loans, so she is on the hook for an extra $150 a month.

Complained about having her debit card info stolen at the Farmers Market and having a week's pay disappear in fraudulent charges.

Then she asks me if I know of any good, cheap hotels in NYC because grad school apps and work is SOOOO stressful she and her friends just have to have a Girls Trip to NYC before her head explodes.

Thank goodness for clueless, entitled hotties.

[GuyInTheCorner]

Almost pulled it off yesterday. Breakfast with POT 1 turned into a fun wild romp that had her squirt all over the bed. Lunch with POT 2 turned into a three-round marathon with me throwing her around like a rag doll, making her scream like crazy, and, yes, squirting all over the bed again. (Both were porn star level explosions too. That duvet is shot! POT 3 for happy hour seemed like it would turn into more fun, but I ran out of time and needed to get home. (Good decision because as it turned out there were issues on the home front.). So close. I have been flirting with retirement and this may be my way to go out on top.

[JZLizard]

Almost pulled it off yesterday. Breakfast with POT 1 turned into a fun wild romp that had her squirt all over the bed. Lunch with POT 2 turned into a three-round marathon with me throwing her around like a rag doll, making her scream like crazy, and, yes, squirting all over the bed again. (Both were porn star level explosions too. That duvet is shot! POT 3 for happy hour seemed like it would turn into more fun, but I ran out of time and needed to get home. (Good decision because as it turned out there were issues on the home front.). So close. I have been flirting with retirement and this may be my way to go out on top.The fact that lack of time was the only thing stopping you from meeting the third alone is reason to get a plaque made in your own honor and hang it on your wall. I'm usually sufficiently overwhelmed with guilt after a few rounds of sex with only one SB that I usually need a day before my little head regains control and makes me crave another. But I guess that's more a statement about where I am with my SO overall.

I have considered retirement too, but I refrain from "officially" deciding anything, because I fear my retirement is going to be more like those entertainers or athletes that announce their retirement only to keep coming back for "ok, now this is REALLY the last tour... this time for real."

I think a gradual scaling back is better in my case, as opposed to drawing any lines for myself that are not to be crossed. That's one strategy for a well-managed addiction, allow a little slack in the rope for error and there's a better chance at sustenance.

[FarFarAway]

The fact that lack of time was the only thing stopping you from meeting the third alone is reason to get a plaque made in your own honor and hang it on your wall. I'm usually sufficiently overwhelmed with guilt after a few rounds of sex with only one SB that I usually need a day before my little head regains control and makes me crave another. But I guess that's more a statement about where I am with my SO overall.

I have considered retirement too, but I refrain from "officially" deciding anything, because I fear my retirement is going to be more like those entertainers or athletes that announce their retirement only to keep coming back for "ok, now this is REALLY the last tour". I think a gradual scaling back is better in my case than drawing any lines that are not to be crossed. That's one strategy for addiction, allow a little slack in the rope for error and there's a better chance at sustenance.You guys aren't hoping to expire while a 20-something is impaled upon you? I recall the wishes of Thurgood Marshall, Supreme Court justice, who wished to die by being shot dead at the age of 84 by a jealous husband. Actually, a quick google search took me to the actual quote:

"I expect to die at 110, shot by a jealous husband. ".

[Enzo Amore]

I am doing something wrong. LOL.

1. My skills are sub-par.

Or.

2. I live in the WRONG place.

Most girls on SA around me want online only or big bucks and wait to see how things go.


Almost pulled it off yesterday. Breakfast with POT 1 turned into a fun wild romp that had her squirt all over the bed. Lunch with POT 2 turned into a three-round marathon with me throwing her around like a rag doll, making her scream like crazy, and, yes, squirting all over the bed again. (Both were porn star level explosions too. That duvet is shot! POT 3 for happy hour seemed like it would turn into more fun, but I ran out of time and needed to get home. (Good decision because as it turned out there were issues on the home front.). So close. I have been flirting with retirement and this may be my way to go out on top.

[JZLizard]

You guys aren't hoping to expire while a 20-something is impaled upon you? I recall the wishes of Thurgood Marshall, Supreme Court justice, who wished to die by being shot dead at the age of 84 by a jealous husband. Actually, a quick google search took me to the actual quote:
"I expect to die at 110, shot by a jealous husband. ".If I can afford to bang a 20-something when I'm 84, I will also invest in the aforementioned plaque that honors my accomplishment to hang on the wall. Without a doubt I won't be able to pique their interest for anything beyond money (assuming I still have some at that point), thus will be ineligible for "dateable guy" discounts. If my retirement savings plus social security allows me to take a ride like that once a month and my dick is up to the task at that age I'll call it a win.

[FarFarAway]

I am doing something wrong. LOL.

1. My skills are sub-par.

Or.

2. I live in the WRONG place.

Most girls on SA around me want online only or big bucks and wait to see how things go.It has occurred to me that there are different bowl experiences depending on location. I look at some other cities' active threads, and those seem to be more like BP. I think in liberal SoCal, girls have a lot of exposure to sex, aren't hung up about it, and don't view the bowl as downright escorting. They have friends who have had arrangements they learn from, and it is expensive as hell to live here, so they have to do something.

[GuyInTheCorner]

A couple of qualifiers / notes:

1) I'm in the DC area.

2) all three were early 30's.

3) none were spinners but they were all objectively beautiful. Three distinct body types all with varying degree of curves.

4) first one actually didn't want or expect a gift. I was her first time doing this. But I have learned from my brethren that always better to give cash lest other things be expected. Second was 3, which was a little higher than I would have liked but I don't negotiate and it was a fair expectation. Not sure what the third would have been.

5) only popped once with the second. First was too wet. Second was as well but she let me get really rough and that flipped the switch. Honestly the neighbors might have thought I was attacking her.

[FarFarAway]

I've heard this from someone else posting. The full moon or something is going on and making all these girls seek us out. I am getting all kinds of messages from POTs and other former SBs. I literally have 1 or 2 meets per day this week. How the heck am I going to get any work done?

[Member #5344]

I've heard this from someone else posting. The full moon or something is going on and making all these girls seek us out. I am getting all kinds of messages from POTs and other former SBs. I literally have 1 or 2 meets per day this week. How the heck am I going to get any work done?Lunar cycles rev up menstrual cycles and hormones. http://www.menstruation.com.au/periodpages/mooncycles.html.

One MILF I see only wants to fuck the week after her period when she is a total animal.

[FarFarAway]

Trying to decide what to do w / this one and need other viewpoints. Posted on the LA thread (essence below) about InlandMILF. I'll PM her profile if anyone wants it. It says submissive.

"InlandMILF. M&G complete, great person, stable / reliable, wanted a lot, negotiated down to my usual, also offered to host (but is a half hour drive out of my usual zone. Tradeoff. Risk of exposure vs. Cost of room)".

My difficulty is that I had a past SB, ModelMILF, I had to travel out of my way to get to the FC. I was always paranoid something would happen when I was out of pocket that would cause the SO to wonder 'what were you doing there?' There were some other non-optimum features also that led me to quit her, and once I did it was a relief. I've mostly been fishing much closer to home. This gal actually reminds me a lot of ModelMILF. Is that alarm bells, to be gravitating to the same style baby? Others have observed that if a girl will meet you she almost certainly has already decided she will fuck you, at least at her price point. Yet, she wanted my photo again b / c she'd forgotten what I looked like (and my profile was down). Huh?

The desirable girls I've actually had the discussion w / have all started at 4 K / mo for allowance, but I just don't know who they think can pay that. Not most, certainly. I'm diplomatic and say ' some guys will pay that' or 'I can certainly see you getting that' but of course I won't / don't.

[FarFarAway]

There's a news report of a hack at another 'adult dating' website (link below). Who knows what will happen to this info. Thankfully for those of us who use SA, its not that. However, it is always good to be cautious. I never have any actual photos of me or my other personal info on the site. I have things that are close that can't be directly tied to me and give any accurate info I might need to supply to a POT via email. I have posted a while ago that I had a very old Ashley Madison membership and after that hack was getting contacted both by extortionists as well as IT people at my work.

http://www.businessinsider.com/adult-dating-site-adultfriendfinder-hacked-400-million-user-accounts-stolen-october-2016-11

[Magic Rat]

I had read more than a few times about passing over Babies who have been on SA for a longer period of time, and I understand that. What about our profiles there? Do you guys make up a new profile after a while or just let it ride? While not super active on SA, I did sign up a few years ago. Have any of you ever gotten a comment from a Baby about the length of time since joining?

[John HandCock]

I had read more than a few times about passing over Babies who have been on SA for a longer period of time, and I understand that. What about our profiles there? Do you guys make up a new profile after a while or just let it ride? While not super active on SA, I did sign up a few years ago. Have any of you ever gotten a comment from a Baby about the length of time since joining?Why worry about something that doesn't matter. Now if you want to update your profile that should be done. If I contact a girl who has been on awhile I ask why and they give various answers. I also ask if the profile is up to date. Most girls are there for help and really don't care how long you have been on. The few if any it bothers move on from. You provide the help in the amount that satisfy them they don't care.

[Madaboutmax]

Depends on what type of baby you are interested in. Escorts or UTR SB's don't care. Scammer's look for new naive SD's to prey on. Some Sb's like an SD with a proven track record of successful arrangements and feel assured you know what you are doing. Still other SB's may be concerned if you come across as too much of a player.

I personally use track record as a successful SD for me and the SB to my advantage. I've rarely had any concern, if at all.


I had read more than a few times about passing over Babies who have been on SA for a longer period of time, and I understand that. What about our profiles there? Do you guys make up a new profile after a while or just let it ride? While not super active on SA, I did sign up a few years ago. Have any of you ever gotten a comment from a Baby about the length of time since joining?

[FarFarAway]

I had read more than a few times about passing over Babies who have been on SA for a longer period of time, and I understand that. What about our profiles there? Do you guys make up a new profile after a while or just let it ride? While not super active on SA, I did sign up a few years ago. Have any of you ever gotten a comment from a Baby about the length of time since joining?To answer your specific question, no, but I've only been on since May. Personally, I'd think someone who has been on a long time is more likely to be UTR, which isn't my interest. I'll convey the thoughts of one famous SD who doesn't read this board, that a peak experience for him is breaking in the new young ones, so obviously, a long-ago joined date is a downer. I M&G w / a POT this morning who has a 2015 joined date. She had an arrangement from that of 8 months and was inactive, then got back on. I obviously did not mark her down for that. Seemed sincere, but of course she could be a sociopath and capable of lying through the teeth.

[Falar]

Good day, it's nice to see some of the old guys posting again. It would be nice to see what Big Tigger is up to these days.

I have a question my membership on SA is about to expire. I've been talking to a few females but they don't have premium membership.

I sent a message to them giving out my email address and phone number to contact me. Would they still be able to view my last message, if they don't log on before my membership expires?

[JZLizard]

I had read more than a few times about passing over Babies who have been on SA for a longer period of time, and I understand that. What about our profiles there? Do you guys make up a new profile after a while or just let it ride? While not super active on SA, I did sign up a few years ago. Have any of you ever gotten a comment from a Baby about the length of time since joining?I would agree overall with Max's take here. I think it does not matter in the big scheme of things, because there will be some girls that consider prior SD experience a plus, then at the other end of the scale there are girls who will categorize you as a serial dater and dock you points for it or at least use it as leverage if they find a reason to become argumentative.

I always encourage anyone involved in online dating to keep the "tech-influenced natural selection effect" in mind. Everything from your profile (actual stats like your duration of membership as well as essays about yourself), to your photos (online or privately traded), to your individual conversations will determine what type of girls you meet, starting with which girls respond to you in the first place. For purposes of this post, that just means that if you've had an account for 3 years, most likely girls who have made up their mind they have a problem with an experienced SD are probably going to overlook you entirely and never meet you. Likewise, if you have a profile that's only a month old, there may be some girls who have had bad experiences with "fresh" SDs and prefer to avoid. It may be easy to forget this fact, as they might simply never respond to your first wink or note.

The consideration here is that it's easy to start believing that the girls you do meet do then, by definition, represent the entire population of girls out there, when nothing could be further from the truth (you're just not seeing the other types because who you are, or more specifically how you're representing yourself online, is selecting a certain type of girl and filtering out the others). The "selection" process can be avoided by having multiple profiles. I personally don't like the multiple profile approach and prefer to use the selection effect to my advantage. In the interest of time, I'd rather attract "good matches" that are likely to be what I'm looking for than to simply widen the pool of possibilities. Others might prefer the idea of casting a wider net by having multiple profiles and experimenting with the results. If I had unlimited opportunity / time / money to spend on the hobby I might be interested in the wider net.

I personally prefer to meet girls who have only recently discovered the bowl (when possible), so I tend to give a higher priority to newer profiles. However, I'm also aware that their profile creation date is not always the most accurate way to assess their experience. You might see a girl with a new profile, then ask her if she's had an SD before and maybe she says she's had several. Sometimes a new profile can be an indicator of a more experienced dater that likes to create new profiles, so it does not really indicate much by itself. The girl with the three year old profile may have been in an exclusive arrangement for 2. 5 years and is more of a fan of remembering passwords for previously inactive accounts than she is of retyping everything? So join date is somewhat of a meaningless indicator, left to its own.

[Ltnric]

So I have been chatting with this super cute cheerleader and how she has gone radio silent. If any of you have seen her hit me up on PM. Would love to know more about her.

[John HandCock]

Good day, it's nice to see some of the old guys posting again. It would be nice to see what Big Tigger is up to these days.

I have a question my membership on SA is about to expire. I've been talking to a few females but they don't have premium membership.

I sent a message to them giving out my email address and phone number to contact me. Would they still be able to view my last message, if they don't log on before my membership expires?Once the membership expires they won't be able to read it.

[IluvSmellyFish]

Magic, I've found most babies prefer sds who have been on the site for a while. The new ones want someone to show them the ropes, the ones who have been on for a few months don't want a newbie who is more likely to get cold feet and flake. Yes, I've been to plenty of m&gs where pots are complaining of potential sds getting cold feet.

Lots of girls out there are truly attracted to older guys for the experience they have in life. Think the dos equis commercial guy.

Long story short, the longer the better. No pun intended.


I had read more than a few times about passing over Babies who have been on SA for a longer period of time, and I understand that. What about our profiles there? Do you guys make up a new profile after a while or just let it ride? While not super active on SA, I did sign up a few years ago. Have any of you ever gotten a comment from a Baby about the length of time since joining?

[FarFarAway]

I have a few POTs including SouthernMILF (25). Had one arrangement. The M&G w / was great. Very upbeat and nice, a bit bigger butt than I could tell from SA photos, about as pretty, not a genius. In my car after, in a strip mall parking lot, she was very kind / empathetic, seemingly guileless. Hmm. Then she starts kissing me. Wow! Great!, some of the best in my memory. If kissing is any indication of the sex. I'm into it. One sticking point, says she works at my employer (a big organization); of course I have given a different work story, but I'm worried she will run into me or see my familiar car and break my secret identity. I have a SO.

[FarFarAway]

I am sufficiently interested in this girl, I bought a 1-month membership in PeopleSmart (recommended by StormyTuesday) for $20. I get to search 5 phone #s in the month, and believe that I found her. The report only gives you a name and cities, not an actual address, so I paid another $25 to get the full report. It includes a couple of court records that have no real info, and I wasn't going to pay even more to look at those. I heard on USASG recently there is a free site for that, and now I have her real name. The report also gives all her licenses (cosmetology), which began in 2005 and ended in 2013. I presume you need to be 18 to get licensed, so she is actually at least 29, not the 25 of her profile. NBD.

[FarFarAway]

The range of girls on SA and what they are going through is amazing. I have been in touch w / 2 POTs in their 20's in the past 24 h who are single moms. They got knocked up by 1) a guy they had no intention of any relationship w /, or 2) turned into a deadbeat / drug addict / ne'er-do-well. They get no child support, nothing. These are very beautiful, hot girls, both worked in the beauty industry. One has a job and car at least, the other has neither (and guess what. She has a high lifestyle expectation). They both respond nicely to be treated well, but I don't know if I want to take on their responsibility.

[FredMoore]

The range of girls on SA and what they are going through is amazing. I have been in touch w / 2 POTs in their 20's in the past 24 h who are single moms. They got knocked up by 1) a guy they had no intention of any relationship w /, or 2) turned into a deadbeat / drug addict / ne'er-do-well. They get no child support, nothing. These are very beautiful, hot girls, both worked in the beauty industry. One has a job and car at least, the other has neither (and guess what. She has a high lifestyle expectation). They both respond nicely to be treated well, but I don't know if I want to take on their responsibility.My experience has been bad with girls who require complete support. There are always disasters that pop up -the car craps out, is towed, rent due, electricity turned off, etc. If you care a little for them it is difficult to let them fail-hence you are resentfully putting out money for their failed lifestyle. Don't get involved if you can resist them.

[YayaGogo]

I have a few POTs including SouthernMILF (25). Had one arrangement. The M&G w / was great. Very upbeat and nice, a bit bigger butt than I could tell from SA photos, about as pretty, not a genius. In my car after, in a strip mall parking lot, she was very kind / empathetic, seemingly guileless. Hmm. Then she starts kissing me. Wow! Great!, some of the best in my memory. If kissing is any indication of the sex. I'm into it. One sticking point, says she works at my employer (a big organization); of course I have given a different work story, but I'm worried she will run into me or see my familiar car and break my secret identity. I have a SO.With all the girls on the site, why on earth would you risk everything to be with that one? Imagine her being the unstable type and running into her at a company function while there with your SO. There goes life as you know it. Good luck!

Yaya.

[Cephlapod Love]

I am sufficiently interested in this girl, I bought a 1-month membership in PeopleSmart (recommended by StormyTuesday) for $20. I get to search 5 phone #s in the month, and believe that I found her. The report only gives you a name and cities, not an actual address, so I paid another $25 to get the full report. It includes a couple of court records that have no real info, and I wasn't going to pay even more to look at those. I heard on USASG recently there is a free site for that, and now I have her real name. The report also gives all her licenses (cosmetology), which began in 2005 and ended in 2013. I presume you need to be 18 to get licensed, so she is actually at least 29, not the 25 of her profile. NBD.A few years back, a fellow monger who was involved in various parts of LE and the legal system educated me. Seems like all states have some requirement from the Feds to put all or part of their court records as accessible on the net. I know for a fact that one can search the databases of the state next door, while my state does allow searches, one just has to "sign up" for an I'd in order to gain access. So if one has a good real name, then one usually can do some free searching on those databases. I. e. No need to pay!

For the College going SBs out there, I'd be shocked if they had hits on those databases. But hey, sometimes "life happens" and one gets "charges put on them. " There is a difference between charges and convictions however. Er, at least last I check. But then again, in this PC-ism world everyone so readily accepts, it doesn't matter what the facts were (innocent or guilty) just the seriousness of the charge.

Anyway, who cares if a MILF, 29 yo SB has some minor charge when she was 18 or 19?

The point of any "background search" is to determine she is a real person and not some scammer or LE. Digging too much into her background is creepy and unnecessary.

[Cephlapod Love]

One sticking point, says she works at my employer (a big organization); of course I have given a different work story, but I'm worried she will run into me or see my familiar car and break my secret identity. I have a SO.There is an old saying that might be applicable here: Don't Sh*T where you eat!

[FarFarAway]

There is an old saying that might be applicable here: Don't Sh*T where you eat!To both CL and Yaya. I get it. Posting may just be my way of release. If anyone in the inland empire wants her profile, though.

[FarFarAway]

A few years back, a fellow monger who was involved in various parts of LE and the legal system educated me. Seems like all states have some requirement from the Feds to put all or part of their court records as accessible on the net. I know for a fact that one can search the databases of the state next door, while my state does allow searches, one just has to "sign up" for an I'd in order to gain access. So if one has a good real name, then one usually can do some free searching on those databases. I. e. No need to pay!

For the College going SBs out there, I'd be shocked if they had hits on those databases. But hey, sometimes "life happens" and one gets "charges put on them. " There is a difference between charges and convictions however. Er, at least last I check. But then again, in this PC-ism world everyone so readily accepts, it doesn't matter what the facts were (innocent or guilty) just the seriousness of the charge.

Anyway, who cares if a MILF, 29 yo SB has some minor charge when she was 18 or 19?

The point of any "background search" is to determine she is a real person and not some scammer or LE. Digging too much into her background is creepy and unnecessary.Yeah, no argument there, just put the facts out there for other people who might want to use PeopleSmart. The info StormyTuesday gave a while back needed updating, especially on specifics of what you get. Of course, often you get a lot of info just from finding a social media account via phone # or email. Some girls aren't as worried about being identified as we are.

[VeryBigBuck]

Hooked up with a 19 year old From SA, she is a nursing student in Maryland. Closer to DC meant more allowance that I am used to, $$$ Did I mention that she is a AA spinner? Amazing lips (very kissable and looked outstanding swallowing my cock), very very tight pussy that squeezed me as she came.

Next goal, 18 why / o.

[FarFarAway]

Hooked up with a 19 year old From SA, she is a nursing student in Maryland. Closer to DC meant more allowance that I am used to, $$$ Did I mention that she is a AA spinner? Amazing lips (very kissable and looked outstanding swallowing my cock), very very tight pussy that squeezed me as she came.

Next goal, 18 why / o.Congrats, Buck. Yep, it's a pretty damn cool world that allows us to do this. My first one 1/3 my age was pudgy but cauc, then I graduated to my current baby, OCHottie I've posted about. Other guys would say ATF but I've hardly been in the bowl long enough to make that meaningful.

Its interesting the occupations showing up a lot on SA. Definitely nursing, nanny, and of course server / bartender.

[Al Melrose]

Congrats, Buck. Yep, it's a pretty damn cool world that allows us to do this. My first one 1/3 my age was pudgy but cauc, then I graduated to my current baby, OCHottie I've posted about. Other guys would say ATF but I've hardly been in the bowl long enough to make that meaningful.

Its interesting the occupations showing up a lot on SA. Definitely nursing, nanny, and of course server / bartender.I laugh at the supposedly pre-med students. (I am sure there may be some, but not the numbers that claim to be).

[DrMcNaughty]

One of my sb's a super cute fit 18 year old spinner is going down the wrong path. Should I give her some knowledge or guidance or just a good spankin' ? Haha! When we met she was premed in her first semester excited to be trauma doctor. Since then she has been on three day acid bender. Decided she's isn't in the medschool mindset. Which is totally cool. I told her to stay in school and get liberal arts degree. Then she got car in car accident. Then car impounded for having bong and booze. Now she is stripping and I've seen too many young naive girls go down the wrong road with cocaine and even worse meth. What would you do?

[John HandCock]

One of my sb's a super cute fit 18 year old spinner is going down the wrong path. Should I give her some knowledge or guidance or just a good spankin' ? Haha! When we met she was premed in her first semester excited to be trauma doctor. Since then she has been on three day acid bender. Decided she's isn't in the medschool mindset. Which is totally cool. I told her to stay in school and get liberal arts degree. Then she got car in car accident. Then car impounded for having bong and booze. Now she is stripping and I've seen too many young naive girls go down the wrong road with cocaine and even worse meth. What would you do?I get the idea she was on this path before you meet her. If you hadn't offered any advice before and knew then you was an enabler. Pretty hard core stuff for 18 year old. Me personally move on and if I had an idea before she wouldn't have been my sb to start.

[FarFarAway]

I laugh at the supposedly pre-med students. (I am sure there may be some, but not the numbers that claim to be).This is so true. I have the professional position to know something about premeds, and I did M&G w / one baby who could not for the life of her figure out how to use her credit card to reserve the FC for us, then told me she made a C in freshman chemistry. On the fast track to humanities. I see some law students who seem real, but it kinda figures. Professional school is expensive, girls more on their own than in other topics.

[FarFarAway]

So, I am guessing other married SDs would discourage sharing w / the baby photos of wife, kids, dogs, etc. Mine has asked, and it doesn't seem too smart. She wants my baby picture too.

[DrMcNaughty]

I get the idea she was on this path before you meet her. If you hadn't offered any advice before and knew then you was an enabler. Pretty hard core stuff for 18 year old. Me personally move on and if I had an idea before she wouldn't have been my sb to start.Thanks. She seemed excited about her future. She was super innocent albeit wild and kinky in bed. I just feel some responsibility to give her some advice as a friend. I have a feeling her parents won't even let her return to school if she tells them she's dropping out of pre-med program. She comes from a very straight edge traditional asian family. She has scholarship that is only valid if she is pursuing med degree. I can see and accept some experimentation being away from home in college for the first time. But she sure seems like she hit the fuck it button!

[Enzo Amore]

I tried to be a White Knight many times. Just save your time and money and walk away.


One of my sb's a super cute fit 18 year old spinner is going down the wrong path. Should I give her some knowledge or guidance or just a good spankin' ? Haha! When we met she was premed in her first semester excited to be trauma doctor. Since then she has been on three day acid bender. Decided she's isn't in the medschool mindset. Which is totally cool. I told her to stay in school and get liberal arts degree. Then she got car in car accident. Then car impounded for having bong and booze. Now she is stripping and I've seen too many young naive girls go down the wrong road with cocaine and even worse meth. What would you do?

[RappaHannock]

So thanks to some guidance from some of you, I did get my account set up with SA. I was having an issue getting the fee paid without using a credit card. Ended up using a prepaid card and even had some issues with that but thanks to the SA staff, got it worked out.

So I am off and running and would like some advice from some of you who are experienced at this. So what I have found is that you will have people who view your profile and that is it, you will have people who favorite you, and you will have people who message you. So my first question is if someone views your profile and that is it, does that generally mean they are really not interested and it is more or less a waste of time to engage with that person on your own?

My next and most important question is if you see someone's profile that interest you and you want to message that person cold turkey, any ideas or thoughts as to the best way to sort of break that ice and then if that person does reply, how you measure the level of interest.

Any thoughts and or tips on anything to improve success and help any connection develop into a great relationship would be appreciated. You can offer that here or PM me whichever you prefer.

Thanks for the guidance I have already received on this forum. Much appreciated.

[DrMcNaughty]

I tried to be a White Knight many times. Just save your time and money and walk away.I've only given her $100 since September, a few bucks for gas $ for her 3 hr drives here, a few hotel nights, some gifts that didn't cost me a cent. A my time which, is precious. I'm not in the bowl to be a parent. Gave her some advice last night. We'll see what she does w it. She went from #2 to #4 in my bountiful bowl she's driving here tonight to try and make daddy happy before she goes home for thanksgiving.

[WinSpy01]

Trying to decide what to do w / this one and need other viewpoints. Posted on the LA thread (essence below) about InlandMILF. I'll PM her profile if anyone wants it. It says submissive.

"InlandMILF. M&G complete, great person, stable / reliable, wanted a lot, negotiated down to my usual, also offered to host (but is a half hour drive out of my usual zone. Tradeoff. Risk of exposure vs. Cost of room)".

My difficulty is that I had a past SB, ModelMILF, I had to travel out of my way to get to the FC. I was always paranoid something would happen when I was out of pocket that would cause the SO to wonder 'what were you doing there?' There were some other non-optimum features also that led me to quit her, and once I did it was a relief. I've mostly been fishing much closer to home. This gal actually reminds me a lot of ModelMILF. Is that alarm bells, to be gravitating to the same style baby? Others have observed that if a girl will meet you she almost certainly has already decided she will fuck you, at least at her price point. Yet, she wanted my photo again b / c she'd forgotten what I looked like (and my profile was down). Huh?

The desirable girls I've actually had the discussion w / have all started at 4 K / mo for allowance, but I just don't know who they think can pay that. Not most, certainly. I'm diplomatic and say ' some guys will pay that' or 'I can certainly see you getting that' but of course I won't / don't.Sure, PM me the profile. I would love to check this chick out.

[Bowtie]

No-one said being a daddy was easy. I've been there myself several times. Absolutely give advise, likely it will get you nowhere, but that's the right thing to do. She is well along on the wrong track it seems so do not get attached. I know easier said than done sometimes. Give her good advice, if she chooses to follow it, great, have fun with her while you can. Good luck.


I tried to be a White Knight many times. Just save your time and money and walk away.

[Bowtie]

I have shown babies my real life pics from my phone, I won't send them though. Need to be careful about that. I'll send infrequent pics of myself or stuff I'm doing or working on but that's about it. I choose to keep somewhat of a wall, not as tight and secure as some on here do though.


So, I am guessing other married SDs would discourage sharing w / the baby photos of wife, kids, dogs, etc. Mine has asked, and it doesn't seem too smart. She wants my baby picture too.

[Madaboutmax]

Agree with most of the advice here. Give her advice as a friend, but remember "tough love" is sometimes the best medicine and also protection for yourself. Addicts are very manipulative and you need to be careful not to be taken advantage of. Be there as a friend, but don't be an enabler and be prepared to bail quickly and cleanly.


No-one said being a daddy was easy. I've been there myself several times. Absolutely give advise, likely it will get you nowhere, but that's the right thing to do. She is well along on the wrong track it seems so do not get attached. I know easier said than done sometimes. Give her good advice, if she chooses to follow it, great, have fun with her while you can. Good luck.

[JZLizard]

Thanks. She seemed excited about her future. She was super innocent albeit wild and kinky in bed. I just feel some responsibility to give her some advice as a friend. I have a feeling her parents won't even let her return to school if she tells them she's dropping out of pre-med program. She comes from a very straight edge traditional asian family. She has scholarship that is only valid if she is pursuing med degree. I can see and accept some experimentation being away from home in college for the first time. But she sure seems like she hit the fuck it button!Dropping out of pre-med (or any other pursuit requiring a serious commitment to schoolwork) is not uncommon at her age, I've known several girls that did that, even though drugs were not a factor at all. Just not yet mature enough to make the tradeoffs necessary to put aside typical college socializing / partying / dating or whatever in order to put in the hours. In her case, I feel sad for her family because they have to watch her throw a scholarship away, so they take a direct financial hit now while watching opportunity slip by. However, if she enters medicine and doesn't really want to enter medicine, she would be miserable anyway. If I were you I wouldn't carry the burden her parents have to carry.

The drugs are a different story. I couldn't get a sense of how into those she is from your post, but in my experience it's usually worse than they report back to their boyfriends (or SDs as the case may be). If she's getting into drugs I would just start to separate yourself from her. Ultimatums "quit the drugs or we are through" won't work, she will just lie about the behavior if she is still doing them. Drugs can turn honest people into liars and thieves pretty quickly.

I once met a real gem of a baby in a strip club. She was brand new to the scene, and if you spent even 3 minutes talking to her you could tell she was never cut out to be a stripper. She was not only young and gorgeous, but had that innocence that we SDs always seem to hunt for. She had just started dancing and I was the first guy to talk her into dating outside the club. This girl was not yet old enough to drink, but she tells me about being addicted to oxycontin in the past. She said that was all behind her and that she was 100% clean. She loved to hangout when I was in town, so one day she asks can I take her to meet her aunt because she owes her money from a loan. I'm almost certain I drove her to what was really a drug buy, and the transaction was complete before I even realized what was going on. Nice. She denied it of course. So while I didn't search her purse or anything like that, I feel I most likely had controlled substances in my car. How do I know a narc wasn't following the "aunt"? Yes its possible she was really just paying off a non-drug related debt, but the more I got to know her the more I doubted it.

You see what I'm getting at. As much as I enjoyed fucking that girl, drugs are a deal breaker and I cut ties. For anyone who thinks being careful is enough to avoid problems, don't kid yourself. Things can happen so quickly you won't be in control of the situation.

I can't say for sure that I would run from yours yet, as I don't know how bad it is, but basically if I were in a position to determine whether to run or to try to influence her life positively, I would just run, because you're probably not going to have the positive impact you'd like to, even if she tells you that you are.

[JZLizard]

So, I am guessing other married SDs would discourage sharing w / the baby photos of wife, kids, dogs, etc. Mine has asked, and it doesn't seem too smart. She wants my baby picture too.I would highly discourage this.

[DrMcNaughty]

No-one said being a daddy was easy. I've been there myself several times. Absolutely give advise, likely it will get you nowhere, but that's the right thing to do. She is well along on the wrong track it seems so do not get attached. I know easier said than done sometimes. Give her good advice, if she chooses to follow it, great, have fun with her while you can. Good luck.


Dropping out of pre-med (or any other pursuit requiring a serious commitment to schoolwork) is not uncommon at her age, I've known several girls that did that, even though drugs were not a factor at all. Just not yet mature enough to make the tradeoffs necessary to put aside typical college socializing / partying / dating or whatever in order to put in the hours. In her case, I feel sad for her family because they have to watch her throw a scholarship away, so they take a direct financial hit now while watching opportunity slip by. However, if she enters medicine and doesn't really want to enter medicine, she would be miserable anyway. If I were you I wouldn't carry the burden her parents have to carry.

The drugs are a different story. I couldn't get a sense of how into those she is from your post, but in my experience it's usually worse than they report back to their boyfriends (or SDs as the case may be). If she's getting into drugs I would just start to separate yourself from her. Ultimatums "quit the drugs or we are through" won't work, she will just lie about the behavior if she is still doing them. Drugs can turn honest people into liars and thieves pretty quickly.

I once met a real gem of a baby in a strip club. She was brand new to the scene, and if you spent even 3 minutes talking to her you could tell she was never cut out to be a stripper. She was not only young and gorgeous, but had that innocence that we SDs always seem to hunt for. She had just started dancing and I was the first guy to talk her into dating outside the club. This girl was not yet old enough to drink, but she tells me about being addicted to oxycontin in the past. She said that was all behind her and that she was 100% clean. She loved to hangout when I was in town, so one day she asks can I take her to meet her aunt because she owes her money from a loan. I'm almost certain I drove her to what was really a drug buy, and the transaction was complete before I even realized what was going on. Nice. She denied it of course. So while I didn't search her purse or anything like that, I feel I most likely had controlled substances in my car. How do I know a narc wasn't following the "aunt"? Yes its possible she was really just paying off a non-drug related debt, but the more I got to know her the more I doubted it.

You see what I'm getting at. As much as I enjoyed fucking that girl, drugs are a deal breaker and I cut ties. For anyone who thinks being careful is enough to avoid problems, don't kid yourself. Things can happen so quickly you won't be in control of the situation.

I can't say for sure that I would run from yours yet, as I don't know how bad it is, but basically if I were in a position to determine whether to run or to try to influence her life positively, I would just run, because you're probably not going to have the positive impact you'd like to, even if she tells you that you are.I gave her some advice as a friend. I'll give her some more here. Ivecseen many young naive girls get wrapped up into the stripper cocaine lifestyle and "blow" their lives to shreds.

[Cephlapod Love]

She loved to hangout when I was in town, so one day she asks can I take her to meet her aunt because she owes her money from a loan. I'm almost certain I drove her to what was really a drug buy, and the transaction was complete before I even realized what was going on. Nice. She denied it of course. So while I didn't search her purse or anything like that, I feel I most likely had controlled substances in my car. How do I know a narc wasn't following the "aunt"? Yes its possible she was really just paying off a non-drug related debt, but the more I got to know her the more I doubted it.Yes, exactly. You drove her to Cop!

A couple of things: Had a baby who was exotic as heck and killer in the FC and seemed normal as heck and pursuing a degree. But one day after she was in the bathroom for 15-min, I peaked in and saw a needle in her arm. Would never have suspected it if I had not seen it! Then a fellow monger dated her and helped her clean up so she wouldn't get evicted. When he emptied the trash into the dumpster he saw a ton of those little blue waxed paper baggies that dope comes in.

Second, I have a rule that I developed for indoor dates with girls when I pick them up (street, restaurant, club, dorm, etc) and that is that once we are done I will drive them anywhere they wish to go and drop them there: ONE stop and only one stop. We stop & you get out and I will leave. Had too many girls run me around to "pick up cellphone chargers" or "give money they owe to a friend" or "help out a sister or aunt. " That is always a sign they are Copping drugs!

The point is I do not want drugs in my vehicle or even hotel room! There is a legal "theory" called constructive possession which essentially means that if the drugs are found in your car or room (under your control), they can be deemed to be owned (I. E. Possessed) by you. So if a girl dumps her stash in your car or room and there is a search, unless someone owns up to the drugs, LE can and usually will just charge EVERYONE with possession. LE charges and lets the lawyers figure it out. Drug charges are felony charges that usually don't just "go away" easily and require some bucks for a lawyer.

So yeah, avoid playing taxi service.

[Bowtie]

One stop rule, I love it. I know I have had it in the car after the fact. Scares the crap out of me. One time I find a sweater in my car the next day. Actually I smelled the perfume. I pick it up and find a rig. About shit myself. And this was after driving 50 miles or more home. Out the window it went as soon as I could, no calling her back. Great rule, seasoned monger just learned something new! Thanks!


Yes, exactly. You drove her to Cop!

A couple of things: Had a baby who was exotic as heck and killer in the FC and seemed normal as heck and pursuing a degree. But one day after she was in the bathroom for 15-min, I peaked in and saw a needle in her arm. Would never have suspected it if I had not seen it! Then a fellow monger dated her and helped her clean up so she wouldn't get evicted. When he emptied the trash into the dumpster he saw a ton of those little blue waxed paper baggies that dope comes in.

Second, I have a rule that I developed for indoor dates with girls when I pick them up (street, restaurant, club, dorm, etc) and that is that once we are done I will drive them anywhere they wish to go and drop them there: ONE stop and only one stop. We stop & you get out and I will leave. Had too many girls run me around to "pick up cellphone chargers" or "give money they owe to a friend" or "help out a sister or aunt. " That is always a sign they are Copping drugs!

The point is I do not want drugs in my vehicle or even hotel room! There is a legal "theory" called constructive possession which essentially means that if the drugs are found in your car or room (under your control), they can be deemed to be owned (I. E. Possessed) by you. So if a girl dumps her stash in your car or room and there is a search, unless someone owns up to the drugs, LE can and usually will just charge EVERYONE with possession. LE charges and lets the lawyers figure it out. Drug charges are felony charges that usually don't just "go away" easily and require some bucks for a lawyer.

So yeah, avoid playing taxi service.

[Falar]

Once the membership expires they won't be able to read it.Thanks, I ended up renewing my membership. I have to work on moving them to the email or texting faster.

[Falar]

The long term approach can be rewarding especially, if the pot is being genuine and your working towards making her feel comfortable.

After hearing some of the horror stories and how some men approach them on the site. I am now more understanding.

I had one on SA that I was working on for months on and off. And I suspected that she was uncomfortable but didn't know how to come out and say it directly. She flaked on me two times but I kept communicating. When I finally got the breakthrough she showed up and we went to the FC. The only cost incurred was the cost of the room. After that she thanked me for having patience with her. And she wanted to meet up again. But I could meet right because I only travel to the city she's live. She went silent again but I have on snap chat but she's not aware because I use my Google number to communicate. She currently in relationship based on the snaps. But I'll keep her number she post a lot of information on what's going in her life. When starts posting again about heart break and relationships not working out. I'll send a message and follow up with her.

Another one that I was working on ahead of my trip didn't work out so well. I sent her gas money to drive to me. But she never showed up. It was a lost if $20. You win some you lose some. But I'm definitely getting better at targeting the women that works out for my current strategy. And with communicating with so many of them over time. You sort of see similarities that allows you to drop them or continue on based on your pass experience. I've had one last as long as two years and the other over a year.

How many of you guys take this approach, it's help that when I travel, I usually to the same city. I know if I was local my success rate might be much higher.

[Madaboutmax]

Is it true that SBs can't read an SDs messages after his membership expires on SA? I've seemed to get responses to my messages after my membership expired. I can't read them or respond to them, but it seems they can read mine.

I get a message saying I must upgrade to read messages. What message would they get? "Member must upgrade to read their messages?

Most girls seem completely unaware we have to pay to message and several have sent multiple frustrated emails that I wasn't responding while my membership lapsed.

Anyone know for sure?.


Once the membership expires they won't be able to read it.

[John HandCock]

Is it true that SBs can't read an SDs messages after his membership expires on SA? I've seemed to get responses to my messages after my membership expired. I can't read them or respond to them, but it seems they can read mine.

I get a message saying I must upgrade to read messages. What message would they get? "Member must upgrade to read their messages?

Most girls seem completely unaware we have to pay to message and several have sent multiple frustrated emails that I wasn't responding while my membership lapsed.

Anyone know for sure?.Just told ya for sure. If they were able to read it then they could contact you if they were smart enough to write your info down or you was smart enough to send it and tell them your membetship was running out and you wasn't renrwing for awhile. Pretty simple. Once your membership runs out you can't read their responses in old mail. They can't read urs either.

[FarFarAway]

I am wondering about other's experiences w / getting initial contacts from women on SA. I almost always have my profile hidden from search (I am super cautious as I have a SO). If I have a baby on allowance, I deactivate (when not on the site, and only go on while she's working) so she doesn't know I am still looking. If I message a POT and then she reads it but my profile is dead, I give my email if she is really interested by the words, but I realize that some won't take the trouble and I miss out / they may get mad. I just wonder what my lost opportunity cost is here, really. When I had no baby and everything in the open, I got all these crazy contacts from around the world. I don't miss not having those in my inbox. What do you get out of it by being fully out there?

I made a mistake last week not hiding my profile upon reactivating, and got approach from a local 31 YO who has an 'older man' fantasy. As things have developed she's likely a 'big' (not fat) girl, not my favorite type. She is crazy w / the nasty texting / sexting and I could see getting her for small sugar. I asked for a full length photo and she went crickets, though, so not a good sign. This experience did stimulate me to think if my caution is causing me to lose out on such 'over the transom' opportunities.

I have a regular baby now (OCHottie, 21) and did have her favorited so I could keep track of her. I knew she hadn't been on the site for the past month. I gave her the allowance for this month, and the next time I was perusing my messages I could see she deactivated her profile. Just a little reassurance.

[Falar]

Any brothers notice a difference in the activities and responses that your profile generate. When you have a picture in your profile versus not having any at all. I usually just indicated that I'm willing to email photos. I've notice that I got way more interactions my last time in the bowl compared to now. I was thinking maybe it's the none photo. I might have upload a photo and set it to private. And just grant access to those who I choose to communicate with.

[FarFarAway]

So thanks to some guidance from some of you, I did get my account set up with SA. I was having an issue getting the fee paid without using a credit card. Ended up using a prepaid card and even had some issues with that but thanks to the SA staff, got it worked out.

So I am off and running and would like some advice from some of you who are experienced at this. So what I have found is that you will have people who view your profile and that is it, you will have people who favorite you, and you will have people who message you. So my first question is if someone views your profile and that is it, does that generally mean they are really not interested and it is more or less a waste of time to engage with that person on your own?

My next and most important question is if you see someone's profile that interest you and you want to message that person cold turkey, any ideas or thoughts as to the best way to sort of break that ice and then if that person does reply, how you measure the level of interest.

Any thoughts and or tips on anything to improve success and help any connection develop into a great relationship would be appreciated. You can offer that here or PM me whichever you prefer.

Thanks for the guidance I have already received on this forum. Much appreciated.My mentor HolllywoodGuy said that you would never date someone who favorites you. That has been true in my experience. I think the point is you favorite someone you want to come back to, but if you really want someone, you message them. In my case I use favoriting differently. To keep track of people I am messaging, as well as stockpile POTs for the times I don't have a paid membership. Once I can message again, I tell them I didn't have a membership and couldn't message. That hasn't seemed to be a problem.

You do need to review all of the Highlights thread for hints about what to put into your initial contact. HWG had letters posted at one point. Someone may still have them.

[PghGuy2005]

https://www.seekingarrangement.com/member/636e16fc-8e92-3ed0-3855-96022f725d3c

Got his from her.

"I don't see Indians for less than 2000 per visit. ".

[TravelinSD]

Take a look at this video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGvrmltfMrA&app=desktop

We've been missing out on a big opportunity. We could form a non-profit to help our poor millenial babies and all of our SB payments would be a charitable contribution, LOL.

Good Hunting!

Travelin.

[Member #5344]

"I don't see Indians for less than 2000 per visit. ".More like Weight Based Pricing. Won't see an Average gal for more than $250!

[FarFarAway]

Had a great M&G w / a HOT blonde MILF last night, sort of a newbie, decided I wanted to get her to the FC today (room booked for holiday visitors), texted and messaged her on SA. I get a message back allright, but not the one I expected. From her hubby. A mild threat but I'm protected by my standard security procedures. I guess hers weren't good enough.

[FarFarAway]

Just had an experience that reminds us all how important operational security is. Had a great initial meet w / a married MILF. There was some indication hubby suspected something was up. I messaged her on SA to try to set the FC. After she fell asleep, he takes her finger and uses it to unlock the phone, sees everything, and then messages me on her account, w / obvious content. Can't control how careful the SBs are, but neither can we rely only on a fingerprint scan on the phone anymore.

[DrMcNaughty]

Haha that's right! I thought she was just a sweet kinky single mom met her at concert in town last year and we hooked up a couple times. I noticed she has been in or local graybar hotel for the past 2 months on a minor charge w fta. Last night I was bored and googled her name. The second site that pops up a sugar site I'd never heard of financialarrangement.com . Her words on profile were very unappealing. After checking out a few of her porn vids (suzanne kelly & giselle ibiza) I may have to go play with her again! Haha!

[FarFarAway]

I'm messaging w / a 19 YO waitress on SA. I ask the key question, 'have you dated much older guys' - trying to arm myself against those who think they want sugar but then when they see the reality of a photo of a 50 YO guy go 'yecch'. Anyway, her answer is that she has had two arrangements, with a 30's guy and a 40's guy, which was pretty out there b / c she's just 19. Then I looked at her profile, and she's been on the site less than a month. So, what she's calling an arrangement pretty much means two dates. LOL. My SD age is 56, so I'll have to play up the age progression thing. She's skinny and hot, WTH.

[Madaboutmax]

The join date on SA isn't always an indicator for how long they've been in the sugar world. Girls can easily create a new profile and there are other sites.

I do always ask if they've had an arrangement or dated an older man before. I've noticed it makes a big difference if a girl likes older guys already or has had good experiences in the past. Even if they have no experience, I like to guage if they've been attracted to older men.

You may be surprised how many young women are actually attracted to older men. Within reason.


I'm messaging w / a 19 YO waitress on SA. I ask the key question, 'have you dated much older guys' - trying to arm myself against those who think they want sugar but then when they see the reality of a photo of a 50 YO guy go 'yecch'. Anyway, her answer is that she has had two arrangements, with a 30's guy and a 40's guy, which was pretty out there b / c she's just 19. Then I looked at her profile, and she's been on the site less than a month. So, what she's calling an arrangement pretty much means two dates. LOL. My SD age is 56, so I'll have to play up the age progression thing. She's skinny and hot, WTH.

[John HandCock]

The join date on SA isn't always an indicator for how long they've been in the sugar world. Girls can easily create a new profile and there are other sites.

I do always ask if they've had an arrangement or dated an older man before. I've noticed it makes a big difference if a girl likes older guys already or has had good experiences in the past. Even if they have no experience, I like to guage if they've been attracted to older men.

You may be surprised how many young women are actually attracted to older men. Within reason.There is a small amout of younger women who are actually attracted to older men but never forget the arraignment is most of the time a deciding factor. A very beneficial arrangement takes you along ways. Lots of women stay in an arrangements becaus of the dollars are really good, not because they actually like you. When you want to test that just cut the sugar off and see if they are still there.

[CigarFL]

Hi guys, I am a longtime lurker and decided I would give back. I am in my sixties, and an African-American business executive. I pretty much date exclusively chocolate, because that is what I like. I don't do arrangements and have never paid more than $120 for a FS session. Some of my quirks and tips:

-- Most of my action comes when I am traveling for business. SA is the greatest thing ever for the business traveler.

-- I don't do dinner, meet-and-greets or drinks unless all that is happening at my hotel.

-- She's never in my car.

-- If she is transportation-challenged I'm happy to send an Uber car to her and take her back -- all on my dime regardless of how the date turns out.

-- I am focused more on enthusiasm and effort than facial features and overall beauty That's how I keep the cost low. One of the best sessions of my life was with a 20-something college student who qualified for BBW status. It was awesome. She stayed with me for two hours and worked like a porn star.

-- Some of the girls I approached hadn't had a date on SA since they signed up -- in some cases more than a year. Discrimination or different tastes are probably the reason. But for those of us who like chocolate that means plenty of bargains that are going untouched.

-- My photo is not on my profile because of business reasons and my relationship status.

-- I will send a real photo once we begin texting or phone conversations.

-- As I noted, my standard payment is $100 plus a $20 tip if it is good, along with Uber transportation to / from if necessary. I'll go as high as $150 plus transportation but that's it. So far, nobody has walked away from that.

-- Small college towns are the best.

-- The last four babies I was with never mentioned money at any point in the process -- and neither did I. In each case I offered up a Benjamin and usually a tip and that was it.

So there are some tips and observations from the chocolate point of view. Without a doubt, there are lots of glamour queen chocolate babies who are in the $300-$500 range but I know how to avoid them from the get-go.

Happy hunting, my friends.

[BrazzerToFive]

If she says she's 18 or 19 you may want to check her age. Had to politely walk out on what turned out to be a HS girl in RVA today who was 3 weeks away from being legal. She had a good cover story about how she was in dorms. Nope. Doesn't move into dorms until next fall.