View Full Version : News and Media Reports
Black Coffee
06-07-10, 16:59
According to the local rag, Leesburg Today, Cardinal Clinic Center, was raided Friday, June 4. The usual factors, which most of us are aware of, contributed to their quick demise. BC
Black Coffee
08-28-10, 20:58
Rt. 1 Therapy got raided last week according to PWC LE weekly "crime" report. 2 ladies arrested. They are also watching Manassas notels near I-66 and Balls Ford Rd. for drug activity. BC
Randy Farang
09-04-10, 16:11
According to press reports a group of 17 State's Attorneys General have pressured Craigslist over "adult services" postings.
As a result, as of today (Saturday, September 4th) Adult Services and Adult Gigs are no longer available in the Washington, D.C. area.
Since the is the second round on this issue (remember the demise of "Erotic Services" last year) I suspect that Craingslist is throwing in the towel.
The truth is, this will not have the intended effect.
W4M is still open, as are the other pay sites which can be used.
Black Coffee
09-04-10, 17:58
This story just hit the local all news radio station's website. The story's comments section will be an interesting read over the next few days. BC
Fun Cowboy
09-04-10, 19:38
This will not change a thing. The ladies will just go to another site, or someone will create a new site just for escorts to advertise on. Bunch of PR crap
cowboy up
Good ole boy Bob McD signed the human trafficking law. Is a short term clamp down in the works now for noVA's AMPs? It will be interesting to see what happens over the course of the year.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/31/mcdonnell-signs-law-to-fight-human-trafficking/
Vamassage Fan
06-01-11, 16:30
Yes, be extra cautious after July 1 when the law takes effect. Heard on good authority that some crackdowns to generate publicity are planned. Pressure will be on state, local police to make a few busts and ring up some numbers to make the politicians look good headed into the elections (primaries in August in Va, state legislative elections in November). Next 6 months will not be a wise time to to any TOFTT activity, rather stick with tried, known low profile experiences. I'm going to stick with my favorite indy for a while.
Good ole boy Bob McD signed the human trafficking law. Is a short term clamp down in the works now for noVA's AMPs? It will be interesting to see what happens over the course of the year.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/31/mcdonnell-signs-law-to-fight-human-trafficking/
Bunker Buster
06-02-11, 15:17
Good ole boy Bob McD signed the human trafficking law. Is a short term clamp down in the works now for noVA's AMPs? It will be interesting to see what happens over the course of the year.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/may/31/mcdonnell-signs-law-to-fight-human-trafficking/
'It says to people who would abuse our children, who would traffic our children, you are not welcome in Virginia, ' Mr. Hugo said.
Once again, we hear lots of meaningful speeches about saving children, then the fat, lazy cops will go out and arrest another batch of 40-year-old Korean women giving handjobs, charge some hapless 50-year-old Korean with major felonies, and crow about stopping human trafficking.
Meanwhile, actual, abused trafficked women and minors will pass right under their donut-stuffed faces, and they won't do a thing about it, because they lack the capability to penetrate the Chinese and Spanish gangs running the operations, which are not open or visible to the white public in the first place.
AKFourtySeven
06-02-11, 18:40
there was an article in the wash times or the examiner about an ms13 pimp who was busted down in alexandria. he was siad to be trafficking **** women. the cops claim to have his extensive client list.
http://piketowncenter.com/2011/05/arlington-physical-center-opens-offering-sweet-asian-staff-for-good-feel/
http://piketowncenter.com/2011/05/arlington-physical-center-opens-offering-sweet-asian-staff-for-good-feel/We have one positive report and one very negative one. Tie breaker, anyone?
Miketastic69
09-01-11, 10:16
She used a "known social networking website", I wonder which one?
Woman charged with prostitution at Woodbridge hotel.
WOODBRIDGE, Va.
A Washington, D. C. Woman was charged with prostitution and drug charges early Saturday after police said that she used a Woodbridge hotel room for a prostitution business.
Officers made contact with (some unlucky provider) at the Best Western hotel, at 14619 Potomac Mills Road, next to the Potomac Festival shopping center, at 2:31 a. M. After they observed 'suspicious activity' in one of the hotel rooms, Prince William police spokeswoman said.
(some unlucky provider) allegedly admitted that her hotel room was used for prostitution, Prince William police spokeswoman said.
Police said that (some unlucky provider) used a known social networking website, which Prince William police spokeswoman did not identify, to solicit her services.
Police allegedly found marijuana in the room, Prince William police spokeswoman said.
(some unlucky provider) .25, of the 1800 block of I St. NW, was charged with prostitution and possession of marijuana, Prince William police spokeswoman said.
She was held on a $2, 000 secured bond.
(some unlucky provider) 's court date was not immediately available.
Police did not provide a mugshot of (some unlucky provider).
Bunker Buster
09-01-11, 15:58
http://piketowncenter.com/2011/05/arlington-physical-center-opens-offering-sweet-asian-staff-for-good-feel/Whatever this site used to be, Google says there's malware on the site.
"piketowncenter. Com contains content from superpuperdomain2. Com, a site known to distribute malware. Your computer might catch a virus if you visit this site."
Ambidextrous
11-30-11, 21:19
http://www.arlnow.com/2011/11/30/board-approves-deregulation-of-massage-businesses/?utm_source=ARLnow.com+Afternoon+Update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=f5ab5cb3c9-ARLnow. Com+Afternoon+Update
http://www.arlnow.com/2011/11/30/board-approves-deregulation-of-massage-businesses/?utm_source=ARLnow.com
+Afternoon+Update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=f5ab5cb3c9-ARLnow. Com+Afternoon+UpdateLooks good for Buss.
http://www.arlnow.com/2011/11/30/board-approves-deregulation-of-massage-businesses/?utm_source=ARLnow.com
+Afternoon+Update&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=f5ab5cb3c9-ARLnow. Com+Afternoon+UpdateNice to see some good news every now and again!
Black Coffee
12-16-11, 18:51
Nice to see some good news every now and again!According to FCPD's website and WJLA a major enforcement operation involving a virtual "alphabet soup" of Fed, State and local LE and the self righteous Polaris project was carried out this week targeting multiple AMP locations in the county. Some licensing citations were handed out, but no evidence of the dreaded "human trafficking" was found. I did notice a TV satellite truck heading toward a former favorite spot one evening this week. As PA says,"be nice to the ladies" as they are under stress at what should be an enjoyable time of the year and of course we should be discreet in our words and actions.
According to FCPD's website and WJLA a major enforcement operation involving a virtual "alphabet soup" of Fed, State and local LE and the self righteous Polaris project was carried out this week targeting multiple AMP locations in the county. Some licensing citations were handed out, but no evidence of the dreaded "human trafficking" was found. I did notice a TV satellite truck heading toward a former favorite spot one evening this week. As PA says,"be nice to the ladies" as they are under stress at what should be an enjoyable time of the year and of course we should be discreet in our words and actions.Glad there were no problems with the girls. Hopefully between their coming up empty handed and the apparent loosening of licensing restrictions, they'll spend their time and energy chasing some real criminals.
The article can be found here, along with a 'map' of affected providers (link has been sanitized to obfuscate this referral) :
Share MyURL.in: www.wjla.com/articles/2011/12/fairfax-county-massage-parlor-sweep-finds-mutliple-licensing-problems-70397.html (http://a.myurl.in/?http://www.wjla.com/articles/2011/12/fairfax-county-massage-parlor-sweep-finds-mutliple-licensing-problems-70397.html)
Stay safe and stay hard.
AKFourtySeven
03-29-12, 19:38
fairfax county general : fairfax underground
welcome to fairfax underground, a project site designed to improve communication between residents of fairfax county, va. feel free to post anything northern virginia residents would find interesting.
crips prostitution ring busted.
posted by: hooker (
date: march 29, 2012 03:34pm.
fairfax-based crips members charged with recruiting girls for prostitution
by justin jouvenal, thursday, march 29, 12:38 pm
a fairfax county-based set of the crips gang recruited local high school girls to serve in a prostitution ring and threatened them with violence if they tried to leave, according to documents unsealed in federal court thursday.
five members of the underground gangster crips have been arrested and are charged in usa district court in alexandria with sex-trafficking **** girls, according to court records.
if convicted, each could serve life in prison.
over three years, the gang members and their most senior prostitute allegedly recruited at least 10 girls by approaching them in school, on facebook, on the street and as they rode the metro. they often told the girls they were pretty and could make money by having sex with men, according to court records.
the girls allegedly would split the proceeds from prostitution with the gang — sometimes $50 or $100 per customer — and gang members would give the girls drugs and party with them after the work was done, according to court records. sometimes, the girls worked door-to-door soliciting men for sex.
if the girls refused to work, things turned violent. justin strom. 26, of lorton, the alleged leader of the ring, choked one of the girls when she said she no longer wanted to engage in prostitution, according to court papers.
in another instance, strom told a 17-year-old girl he was recruiting to use cocaine, cut her on the arm with a knife and then forced her to have sex with him, according to court records. the girl was then taken to an apartment, where she was forced to have sex with 14 other men, court documents show. strom collected $1, 000 that night, according to court records.
the underground gangster crips have a long and violent history in fairfax county, allegedly committing rapes, armed robbery and selling drugs, according to court documents.
the crips are not the only local gang accused of prostituting young girls in the washington area in recent months. members of the violent gang mara salvatrucha, also known as ms-13, also have been accused in federal court in virginia of prostitution-related charges involving juvenile victims.
more details on the crips case are expected at a 2 pm press conference. virginia attorney general kenneth cuccinelli ii, usa attorney for the eastern district of virginia neil h. macbride, fairfax county police chief david rohrer and others are scheduled to attend.
Anyone herd from Sleazebum? Even though we do`nt see things eye 2 eye hope he`s OK. I know he was going to the GB partys hate too see anyone get himed up.
I am alive and doing very well! My main hangout nowadays is the FCCC.
Thank you so much for checking up on me!
I do not go to GBs anymore. The last one was a little dicey for me so I leave all that to you fellas.
JJ.
Sleazebum endures!
Anyone herd from Sleazebum? Even though we do`nt see things eye 2 eye hope he`s OK. I know he was going to the GB partys hate too see anyone get himed up.
Fairfax County General : Fairfax UndergroundI never see this and they sure are not coming to my door.
Capricaone
03-31-12, 10:01
I am alive and doing very well! My main hangout nowadays is the FCCC.
Thank you so much for checking up on me!
I do not go to GBs anymore. The last one was a little dicey for me so I leave all that to you fellas.
JJ.
Sleazebum endures!So what happened at the last one?
So what happened at the last one?It is not my thing but it might be yours. Go check it out for yourself.
JJ
Capricaone
03-31-12, 23:41
It is not my thing but it might be yours. Go check it out for yourself.
JJNo, I am not into them either. But you said the last one was dicey and I think you use to be a regular from your postings. I remember a while back there was a robbery. Did something else happen?
AKFourtySeven
04-19-12, 13:21
Here is the link. I never knew that one was there.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper/Metro/2012-04-19/B/6/40.2.3425396043_epaper.html
VAmongerman
04-20-12, 07:31
Here is the link. I never knew that one was there.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/todays_paper/Metro/2012-04-19/B/6/40.2.3425396043_epaper.htmlThis is a terrible thing. I have enjoyed this spa for years and always felt that the owner was working hard to make her way in the world. She worked very hard, going to school etc. This is really a terrible thing to happen and I hope they find the be*tard and cut is be*s off.
Its not like there was nothing else going on for LE to focus on. 2 Months of "Investigation"?
Vienna and Herndon Hit.
PM for link. Not sure if I can post it due to names included in the report.
Drunker Irish
08-05-12, 10:05
http://annapolis.patch.com/articles/prostitution-sting-catches-annapolis-man-in-prince-george-s-county-maryland#photo-10898422
First is background, and gives notes about what is to come:
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2012/06/07/city-focuses-on-massage-parlors-suspected-of-prostitution/
Next, we have the results of the city actions:
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21054685/berkeley-prostitution-investigation-closes-12-massage-parlors
This is scary stuff for those who choose to go outside a well moderated and managed site like usasg!
First is background, and gives notes about what is to come:
http://www.berkeleyside.com/2012/06/07/city-focuses-on-massage-parlors-suspected-of-prostitution/
Next, we have the results of the city actions:
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21054685/berkeley-prostitution-investigation-closes-12-massage-parlors
This is scary stuff for those who choose to go outside a well moderated and managed site like usasg!Some of the reviews on here give too much detail. But that's the dilemma: if you give too few details, the review isn't worth much to the other members; give too much details and you risk peeking the interest of LE or "upstanding concerned citizen Joe Blow" and the place gets ratted out and shut down.
Some of the reviews on here give too much detail. But that's the dilemma: if you give too few details, the review isn't worth much to the other members; give too much details and you risk peeking the interest of LE or "upstanding concerned citizen Joe Blow" and the place gets ratted out and shut down.I guess what really got to me with this situation was that the City Council got involved, and due to the Graphic Nature of the reviews on the site in question, took those reviews as gospel and shut down all 16 AMPs in the city. I have read some of that other board's stuff about this area, and believe me when I say there is enough there to get the notice of Miss Goody Two Shoes, and cause action that we do not want to take. My view is that this board is a much better bet, since there is at least an attempt to not be specific and / or graphic. That said, some of our brothers can definately use a good dose of STFU!
I'm Just Sayn.
See the article:
http://annandale.patch.com/articles/former-annandale-massage-parlor-owner-pleads-guilty-to-prostitution-money-laundering
See the article:
http://annandale.patch.com/articles/former-annandale-massage-parlor-owner-pleads-guilty-to-prostitution-money-launderingThanks for the info!
See the article:
http://annandale.patch.com/articles/former-annandale-massage-parlor-owner-pleads-guilty-to-prostitution-money-launderingNothing surprising in the report regarding the fraud marriage and money laundering LOL. I bet she has a ton more cash stashed overseas. What puzzles me is the NCIS involvement. What prompted that? The "husband" must be active duty Navy and somehow involved.
Nothing surprising in the report regarding the fraud marriage and money laundering LOL. I bet she has a ton more cash stashed overseas. What puzzles me is the NCIS involvement. What prompted that? The "husband" must be active duty Navy and somehow involved.NCIS became involved when they discovered that "Patrons of Peach Therapy included employees of defense contractors, commissioned officers of the USA military and individuals who held security clearances.
NCIS became involved when they discovered that "Patrons of Peach Therapy included employees of defense contractors, commissioned officers of the USA military and individuals who held security clearances.For CONUS, NCIS jurisdiction lies with Navy personnel, both uniformed or civilian. They have no authority over military members of other services (unless those personnel are assigned to Dept of Navy organizations) , non-Navy civilians with clearances, nor defense contractors. For contractors, the investigating authority lies with DSS, since that is the government authority that grants and revokes clearances for contractors. And even then, DSS does not investigate contractors suspected of patronizing massage parlors.
For CONUS, NCIS jurisdiction lies with Navy personnel, both uniformed or civilian. They have no authority over military members of other services (unless those personnel are assigned to Dept of Navy organizations) , non-Navy civilians with clearances, nor defense contractors. For contractors, the investigating authority lies with DSS, since that is the government authority that grants and revokes clearances for contractors. And even then, DSS does not investigate contractors suspected of patronizing massage parlors.There you go. You narrowed it down to the possibility of USN patrons. Understanding that there's no sign-in sheet in the spa, don't you suppose that records of calls from official USN phone numbers would be cause for NCIS interest?
.don't you suppose that records of calls from official USN phone numbers would be cause for NCIS interest?This is why I'm thankful for Google Voice!
There you go. You narrowed it down to the possibility of USN patrons. Understanding that there's no sign-in sheet in the spa, don't you suppose that records of calls from official USN phone numbers would be cause for NCIS interest?But I recall one of the articles mentioning that Peach had names and personal info on patrons. Phone numbers and emails are the usual means of setting up appointments. Unless they asked to see some form of I'd upon entrance?
AKFourtySeven
11-04-12, 09:44
This why I use a pre paid phone and pay cash. Its harder to gather info that way. I try to park away from the entrance so that the cameras won't pick up my tags too.
This why I use a pre paid phone and pay cash. Its harder to gather info that way. I try to park away from the entrance so that the cameras won't pick up my tags too.Does anybody know for SURE if the cameras record what they see? Or do they just provide a "peep hole" view for the occupants to see what is outside the door. I "Heard" one time that they were used by management to check provider times to match the take, but that was third-hand info.
Would like to know for sure, so I can be more careful about my tags. BTW, on one of the MP review sites, I once found a picture of my vehicle outside the Spa. Talk about a headache!
Safe!
AM
Does anybody know for SURE if the cameras record what they see? Or do they just provide a "peep hole" view for the occupants to see what is outside the door. I "Heard" one time that they were used by management to check provider times to match the take, but that was third-hand info.
Would like to know for sure, so I can be more careful about my tags. BTW, on one of the MP review sites, I once found a picture of my vehicle outside the Spa. Talk about a headache!
Safe!
AMCCTV systems would be useless if they did NOT record what they capture. If a crime were committed they would need the recording to assist police in investigating. Most systems on the market include either VCR or USB interface and software to record everything they see.
Drunker Irish
11-05-12, 07:28
I don't think its that complicated. LEO was probably just monitoring the people going in and coming out and running the plates and recording the information. Pretty easy to cross reference owners with address and place of employment.
FlowMaster
11-05-12, 18:24
I don't think its that complicated. LEO was probably just monitoring the people going in and coming out and running the plates and recording the information. Pretty easy to cross reference owners with address and place of employment.I would think, If one visits such place, that doesn't mean that said person actually participated in anything.
Also if one was in such a place and LEO decides to pay a visit what happens to patrons in the place?
I would think, If one visits such place, that doesn't mean that said person actually participated in anything.
Also if one was in such a place and LEO decides to pay a visit what happens to patrons in the place?What has happened in the past to fellas caught inside is they were charged with "Frequenting a bawdy place" and their names with addresses are published in the newspaper along with the charges.
It is never told if they are convicted or cleared.
For some of us just having the name in the paper is the kiss of death and leads to loss of security clearance, family, home, etc. It is more than enough to keep this fat, old man out of those places in times such as these. A HJ is simply not worth it to me!
As always, YMMV and others have other stories to tell.
Drunker Irish
12-09-12, 13:00
Excellent website for news and information.
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/prostitution-crackdowns-in-the-dmv
Bunker Buster
12-20-12, 17:54
Worth reading to see how Uncle is operating. People getting caught up in this violate many basic guidelines.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/dark-world-of-prostitution-turns-to-the-day/2012/12/17/d26f9842-432a-11e2-8061-253bccfc7532_story.html
Bunker Buster
01-06-13, 19:18
No other nominations are being accepted. This guy takes the cake.
He didn't just call police to report that a girl shortchanged him by 10 minutes, leading to his own and her arrest, as well as that of a second girl:
http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2012/12/nh-man-charged-after-telling-cops-alleged-prostitute-owed-him-10-more-minutes/
To add to his stupidity, he's been using his real name and phone, and is listed on bad-client boards.
He reportedly is listed on two websites where escorts share complaints about problem clients, National Blacklist and Bad Boy Client List. He is described as being "notorious for booking out-calls and then not answering his door or phone."
It also turns out that girls have called the police on him for booking dances then not answering the door.
http://www.generationbeta.com/?cat=16
This guy will never get civilian or pro action again in his life.
Interesting. Thai Massage in Fairfax? Most activity was in Wash State, but included some in Fairfax. As usual, its Human Trafficking. Article available via news search. Cannot post link due to posting guidelines. May PM for article if you like.
I should have said I will respond to those I know, or who are trusted Seniors. If you have no / few reports, do your own research.
Interesting. Thai Massage in Fairfax? Most activity was in Wash State, but included some in Fairfax. As usual, its Human Trafficking. Article available via news search. Cannot post link due to posting guidelines. May PM for article if you like.
I should have said I will respond to those I know, or who are trusted Seniors. If you have no / few reports, do your own research.Multi State Thai bust is a HOAX!
Senor DosEquis
03-16-13, 16:31
Interesting. Thai Massage in Fairfax? Most activity was in Wash State, but included some in Fairfax. As usual, its Human Trafficking. Article available via news search. Cannot post link due to posting guidelines. May PM for article if you like.Thai women brought to US to work as prostitutes!
I guess those Thai women thought they could make more money in the US.
Must be too much competition for those Thai women back in Phuket, Bangkok, or Pattaya!
The experiences of an investigative reporter in Vermont. He uses resources just like you and I, and we wonder why some spots have problems!
http://www.7dvt.com/2013inside-vermonts-asian-sex-market
AKFourtySeven
06-06-13, 16:06
So a handjob is prostitution? Looks like there's nothing going on up there either.
I'm somewhat curious as to how much manpower / money / time goes into these stings in relation to the results on average. With the economy the way it has been, is this REALLY the best use of taxpayer money? I get that human trafficking is awful, but how often are there any of these victims actually taken out of there?
After re-reading the article, I just do not think these so-called signs mean anything, other than that they are common to AMP business, and are used as an excuse by LEO to build up arrest count in an easy fashion by picking on vulnerable folk. Here are the signs listed, along with my comments.
1. No apparent cash registers or documentation of transactions;
Never have I seen a cash register in an AMP. Anywhere in the world. Even where full on prostitution is legal.
2. All-male clientele;
Not necessarily so around here, but am told that Ladies do appear from time to time. Same is true for escorts.
3. An abundant use of surveillance cameras, locked doors and buzzers to screen customers;
With cash inside and few workers on board (especially late) Seems like reasonable precautions to me.
4. Windows covered with bars, boards or curtains.
Would you want your ass showing to anyone who walked by? Bars on Windows? See 3 above.
5 The workers were all Asian women who claimed to work seven days a week.
Probably true. To me this just seems that the Asian ladies want to make as much as possible in the limited time that they have while they are still young enough to be attractive.
6. Live on the premises.
Do not believe this happens here. No blankets allowed. No cooking on site, etc. Pretty boring existence.
Guitarman1
06-08-13, 10:44
The whole human traffic in an AMP is ridiculous. These LE agencies are just trying to make it sound better that they raided an AMP instead of a crack house.
I had mentioned to one girl last year that after leaving the MP I was going house hunting. She started educating me on house prices where she was getting ready to buy. She actually knew a lot about the buying process and prices in the different areas she she was looking at.
A couple times I have done to different AMPs directly from the gym and brought in my change of clothes. After the whole session is over some of the girls have offered to carry my gym clothes to my car for me. One girl just picked my stuff up and followed me. I was expecting her to hand my stuff back when she let me out, but she followed me all the way to the car.
I have also been to an AMP where there was only 1 girl working in the entire place. No mamasan, no other girls, just her. It was not long before closing and I had seen other girls there during day visits. As I was getting dressed I asked if she was the only one there and she said yes.
I did have a girl tell me she was staying at the MP. She said she took the spot in DC because she'd been told there was good money to be made. She said she lived in NY and was not staying permanently so didn't want to spend the money getting a place. She said it is a common practice for the girls to rotate to different areas if the opportunity to make good money comes up.
The experiences of an investigative reporter in Vermont. He uses resources just like you and I, and we wonder why some spots have problems!
http://www.7dvt.com/2013inside-vermonts-asian-sex-marketBingo! Some mongers on here give the argument that LE already knows the names of these establishments so no need to be all cutesy with the reviews. Well I'm not worried about LE, I'm more worried about the regular civilian Joe Blows, either some goody two shoes or an investigative reporter like the one in the article, coming across monger boards where there is too much info being posted.
Bunker Buster
06-08-13, 18:23
The whole human traffic in an AMP is ridiculous. These LE agencies are just trying to make it sound better that they raided an AMP instead of a crack house.
I had mentioned to one girl last year that after leaving the MP I was going house hunting. She started educating me on house prices where she was getting ready to buy. She actually knew a lot about the buying process and prices in the different areas she she was looking at.
One girl just picked my stuff up and followed me. I was expecting her to hand my stuff back when she let me out, but she followed me all the way to the car.
I have also been to an AMP where there was only 1 girl working in the entire place. No mamasan, no other girls, just her.
I did have a girl tell me she was staying at the MP. She said she took the spot in DC because she'd been told there was good money to be made. She said she lived in NY and was not staying permanently so didn't want to spend the money getting a place. She said it is a common practice for the girls to rotate to different areas if the opportunity to make good money comes up.I've met girls at AMPs who gave me their cell phone numbers, and one girl asked me to pick her up at the end of her last day at 1818. I took her sightseeing for a few hours, browsed a record store with her, sat in a coffee shop for a while, then took her to the bus station. Another girl asked if I wouldn't mind picking her up at the spa and driving her to BWI, because she was flying to Vegas for vacation.
Both girls showed me their passports, which were NOT taken away to keep them trapped. They said they worked long hours in AMPs to save up a lot of money quickly, then take a nice vacation and buy expensive shoes and purses.
Don't know if anyone (Ginger Man, are you reading this?) remembers Sue from the spa on 14th St. Many years ago (she was famous for her toe-sucking technique) , but she gave me her number, and I spoke to her a few times, until the night I called and her American boyfriend asked who was on the phone, then took it from her and told me she wasn't interested in talking to me anymore.
Saying all AMPs are trafficking is like saying that all moonshine is poison that will make you blind. The bad actors are used to go after everyone, and the real issue is control, not safety.
The experiences of an investigative reporter in Vermont. He uses resources just like you and I, and we wonder why some spots have problems!
http://www.7dvt.com/2013inside-vermonts-asian-sex-marketThanks for the link, interesting read, especially the local criminal investigation that prompted his investigative piece. I wouldn't be too quick to extrapolate our experiences around here-a major metro area with a sizable Asian population-to places like Bennington Vermont. I can't see money necessarily working as the sole inducement for women to travel there to work.
Not very informative for details, but a needed read.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/more-than-20-men-arrested-in-fairfax-prostitution-sting/2013/08/21/2f0a6fca-0a61-11e3-9941-6711ed662e71_story.html
Safe!
AM
If there's somethin' strange in your neighborhood.
Who ya going to call (Johnbusters)
If it's somethin' weird an it won't look good.
Who ya going to call (Johnbusters)
I ain't afraid a no John.
I ain't afraid a no John.
If you're seein' things runnin' thru your head.
Who can you call (Johnbusters)
An' invisible man sleepin' in your bed.
Oh who ya going to call (Johnbusters)
I ain't afraid a no John.
I ain't afraid a no John.
Who ya going to call (Johnbusters)
If you're all alone pick up the phone.
An call (Johnbusters)
I ain't afraid a no John.
I hear it likes the girls.
I ain't afraid a no John.
Who you going to call (Johnbusters)
Mm. If you've had a dose.
Of a freaky John baby.
You better call Johnbusters.
Bustin' makes me feel good.
I ain't afraid a no Johns.
Don't get caught alone oh no. Johnbuster.
When he comes through your door.
Unless you've just got some more.
I think you better call Johnbusters.
Ooh. Who you going to call (Johnbusters)
Who you going to call (Johnbusters)
Ah, I think you better call (Johnbusters)
I can't hear you. (Johnbusters)
Who you going to call (Johnbusters)
Louder Johnbusters.
Who you going to call (Johnbusters)
Who you can call Johnbusters. (till fade)
You got that right. I`ve had them come crash at my house, sleep for 2-days eat sleep eat sleep then wake up & ready to go taking me out on their dime for weeks at a time!
I've met girls at AMPs who gave me their cell phone numbers, and one girl asked me to pick her up at the end of her last day at 1818. I took her sightseeing for a few hours, browsed a record store with her, sat in a coffee shop for a while, then took her to the bus station. Another girl asked if I wouldn't mind picking her up at the spa and driving her to BWI, because she was flying to Vegas for vacation.
Both girls showed me their passports, which were NOT taken away to keep them trapped. They said they worked long hours in AMPs to save up a lot of money quickly, then take a nice vacation and buy expensive shoes and purses.
Don't know if anyone (Ginger Man, are you reading this?) remembers Sue from the spa on 14th St. Many years ago (she was famous for her toe-sucking technique) , but she gave me her number, and I spoke to her a few times, until the night I called and her American boyfriend asked who was on the phone, then took it from her and told me she wasn't interested in talking to me anymore.
Saying all AMPs are trafficking is like saying that all moonshine is poison that will make you blind. The bad actors are used to go after everyone, and the real issue is control, not safety.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2013/101113humantraffickinggrant.htm
Bunker Buster
10-17-13, 01:26
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2013/101113humantraffickinggrant.htmthe lazy porkers are going to spend most of that money busting independent girls, because they're too cowardly to go after the foreign gangs doing most of the trafficking, especially of **** girls.
most trafficking is mexicans, salvadorians, and chinese, but the cops are going to roll up a lot of white and black american girls, then crow about how they're 'saving' victims of trafficking.
the lazy porkers are going to spend most of that money busting independent girls, because they're too cowardly to go after the foreign gangs doing most of the trafficking, especially of **** girls.
most trafficking is mexicans, salvadorians, and chinese, but the cops are going to roll up a lot of white and black american girls, then crow about how they're 'saving' victims of trafficking.i guess i'm interested to see these "innovative" approaches. again, i understand the need to get the **** and forced women out the game but let the ones eligible to play. play. something else (another crime) will rise because they're using that money to do this.
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/news-releases/2013/101113humantraffickinggrant.htmAll the more reason to be discreet with your postings, especially with MP reviews. LE knows most of the spots but it's the Joe Blow "we are against human trafficking" citizen advocacy groups and investigative reporters that cruise through public monger boards.
Guitarman1
10-20-13, 11:30
That is the norm these days. Law Enforcement is all about stats, not about really stopping crime or helping anyone. They make the easy busts that end up getting the ho's that are just trying to make a living, and completely bypass the actual gangs and organized criminals that are trafficking humans. Go after soft targets, get nice looking arrest stats, don't actually make a difference. Law enforcement at its best.
JustaNon75
03-20-14, 16:23
Last week 15 guys got picked up and 2 providers from Oakland (March 14-15) - but no mention in any of the news outlets?
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/prostitution-crackdowns-in-the-dmv
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/crime/arrest.txt
Last week 15 guys got picked up and 2 providers from Oakland (March 14-15) - but no mention in any of the news outlets?
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/prostitution-crackdowns-in-the-dmv
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/crime/arrest.txtWe get a lot of visits from West Coast girls, so apparently two of them let their guard down and got busted. For the men, the cops put up an ad, get a hotel room and bust the guys when they make the mistake of discussing $ for any kind of sex act. They'll either use an undercover female cop or I've read reports that they sometimes use providers they've previously arrested because they get some kind of deal for assisting LEO.
Sometimes LEO makes a big publicity push for these stings and sometimes they don't. Also, if there's a lot of other news going on the story may not be picked up by the press for that reason.
The bottom line is that everyone needs to stay smart, do their homework and look out for themselves. Although there are no 100% guarantees, staying with well-reviewed providers instead of chasing every new ad that pops up is one way to play smart. Another important point is to never, never, never discuss $. You should know the donation ahead of time and just drop it somewhere without saying a word. If the provider doesn't put her requested donation on her site or in her ad, you may need to ask her about it when you call to set up the appt. But you should never say anything remotely related to sex during that call because you have no idea if it's being recorded. Same thing goes for text messages and emails.
FYI, VA is a "one party consent" state, which means that LEO doesn't need your permission to record your call. DC is the same but MD is a "two party consent" state. But that applies only to calls made entirely within MD and calls made between states may not be protected. Also anything involving the Feds comes under "one party consent" rules.
Be smart and stay safe!
Mpduration
03-20-14, 22:25
Last week 15 guys got picked up and 2 providers from Oakland (March 14-15) - but no mention in any of the news outlets?
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/prostitution-crackdowns-in-the-dmv
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/crime/arrest.txtProbably a lawsuit from a hobbyist or indication that stings will continue.
Last week 15 guys got picked up and 2 providers from Oakland (March 14-15) - but no mention in any of the news outlets?
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/prostitution-crackdowns-in-the-dmv
http://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/police/crime/arrest.txtHoly crap! One of the guys on the list is my neighbor!
Mpduration
03-22-14, 12:28
Holy crap! One of the guys on the list is my neighbor!Sometimes information is removed from that file. Might be something to keep an eye on. This site use to keep an archive of all the records.
http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/arrests/
Here's a link to the USASG discussion from the SFO board (scroll down for the CNN story):
http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7080-News-and-Media-Reports
My first thought was whether BP might be a similar target but, the more I think about it, the more I think the differences are substantial enough that BP should be safe. Besides, BP is owned by Village Voice Media and I'm sure they have pretty good lawyers on their payroll.
Here's a link to the USASG discussion from the SFO board (scroll down for the CNN story):
http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7080-News-and-Media-Reports
My first thought was whether BP might be a similar target but, the more I think about it, the more I think the differences are substantial enough that BP should be safe. Besides, BP is owned by Village Voice Media and I'm sure they have pretty good lawyers on their payroll.Closed. If it was trafficking children, I'm all for it. People should be behind this even if we're in this hobby. No matter reason you're in this hobby, you should never consider that option.
closed. if it was trafficking children, i'm all for it. people should be behind this even if we're in this hobby. no matter reason you're in this hobby, you should never consider that option.i lived on the west coast for a number of years and that site was the primary escort / bodyrub advertising, review and forum site. it's been around for maybe 10-15 years, if not closer to 20. as any hobbyist should know by now, the standard media and le schtick when it comes to anything associated with prostitution is that it must involve "trafficking. " i don't think i've ever seen a hobby related arrest or raid where the "t" word isn't used. and that's the brainwash they feed the masses to get them to buy into our puritanical society's refusal to let consenting adults control their own bodies and behavior. other advanced countries have figured out how to legalize the hobby or at least not harass those who engage in consensual conduct. and they've also figured out how to go after the real traffickers while leaving the rest alone.
the rb site was no more about trafficking than is bp, usasg and the other site. just like bp, they always asked the proper verification questions to try to prevent ads being posted by **** providers. and just like bp, if a provider chooses to lie about her age, there isn't anything to stop her from doing so.
Closed. If it was trafficking children, I'm all for it. People should be behind this even if we're in this hobby. No matter reason you're in this hobby, you should never consider that option.http://redlightr.io/the-myth-of-maria/
http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/the-world-cup-of-dirty-dreams-inside-brazils-most-infamous-brothel-20140626
Two interesting articles focusing on the hobby in Brazil (guess because of the World Cup) where, even though the hobby is legal, "trafficking" is supposedly a big problem. Except both articles do a good job of demonstrating that the vast majority of sex workers are not victims but are making a conscious adult decision to do work that brings in the money they need to support themselves and their families. And the articles also point the finger squarely at government officials and anti-trafficking groups for spreading the trafficking myth, despite the lack of a factual basis, to further their own agendas.
One last note is that the articles are not saying, and I'm certainly not saying, that trafficking isn't occurring in some areas and circumstances. But the scourge of actual trafficking is never going to be solved by policy and legislation fed in large part by mythology and not by facts.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/09/us-usa-california-homicide-idUSKBN0FE1KZ20140709
Letting any provider, no matter how high-priced or "high-class" she is, inject you with anything (and then expecting her to call for help if something goes wrong) is a recipe for disaster. Earth to dead executive, she's a hooker and while you're enjoying the paid sex you also need to take care to ensure your personal safety and well-being because things can go to sh*t in a hurry if you don't.
And here I thought Google only hired the best and the brightest.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/couple-plead-guilty-craigslist-killing-25135100
Man answers Craigslist ad offering companionship (Women seeking Men or maybe Casual Encounters?) and then meets the woman at a mall and gets into her car. The guy is 6'2" and 270 lbs while the woman is a petite 19 year old, so no reason for the guy to worry, right? They drive away, park the car, and the woman's husband comes out from under a blanket in the back and puts a cord around the guy's neck while the "petite" woman stabs the victim 20 times.
While this particular incident involved CL, and not BP, Eros or some other site, it pays to remember that any F-2-F meeting of a person you found on the internet has an inherent risk attached.
So always do as much homework as possible, think with the big head and stay safe!
Gents, I'm typically pretty careful. Private browsing, clearing cookies and caches, no stored pics, etc. But, the good people at google found a way to fuck all that. I signed up for a gmail account long ago to make comments on news stories and to use as a vanilla dummy email acct. If you don't actively sign that account out, it will log all of your google browsing and google maps history in a separate gmail history file. Regardless of the steps you take for privacy, like selecting private browsing. You may only clear these search histories by going several menus deep into your gmail profile. Technology, the blessing and curse.
Gents, I'm typically pretty careful. Private browsing, clearing cookies and caches, no stored pics, etc. But, the good people at google found a way to fuck all that. I signed up for a gmail account long ago to make comments on news stories and to use as a vanilla dummy email acct. If you don't actively sign that account out, it will log all of your google browsing and google maps history in a separate gmail history file. Regardless of the steps you take for privacy, like selecting private browsing. You may only clear these search histories by going several menus deep into your gmail profile. Technology, the blessing and curse.Thanks Bud!
You are so right. Google watches and logs everything you do. Folks go back, log in and clear you hx, including maps, etc. This includes your Android phones.
Big bird is watching.
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21611074-how-new-technology-shaking-up-oldest-business-more-bang-your-buck
Not a short article but worth reading, IMHO.
Be careful with the first chart as the price data is adjusted for local cost of living and can be a bit misleading. For example, saying that Tokyo (one of the world's most expensive cities) has a lower price level on an adjusted basis doesn't mean nominal prices aren't high. So, while the price of an escort in Tokyo might be higher than in Cleveland or Atlanta, for the authors it's still a good deal on a relative basis because everything else in Tokyo is so damn expensive.
The problem with that analysis is, if you're a visitor and not a resident, what you really care about is the total hit to your wallet. But lots of other interesting info about supply and demand and different trends around the world.
One clear takeaway is that the DMV is a victim of its own success. Being the center of government, lobbying and other ancillary government services means we escape most of the worst effects of any economic downturn. And that means we're a magnet for providers from all over who are looking to get paid more for their services than they can get in their local markets.
Drunker Irish
11-30-14, 09:54
Sutr,
Great find and excellent article. Explains a lot, and in particular the screening process and why girls want certain information. I think the rates are based on online incall or escorts. The rates at FKK, relight district in Amsterdam, and 'barber shops' in Shanghai are MUCH cheaper for similar service, but different 'conditions' like a booth in Amsterdam.
http://www.economist.com/news/briefing/21611074-how-new-technology-shaking-up-oldest-business-more-bang-your-buck
Not a short article but worth reading, IMHO.
Sutr,
Great find and excellent article. Explains a lot, and in particular the screening process and why girls want certain information. I think the rates are based on online incall or escorts. The rates at FKK, relight district in Amsterdam, and 'barber shops' in Shanghai are MUCH cheaper for similar service, but different 'conditions' like a booth in Amsterdam.In reading the article, it seems they got their price data from either the oThER site or some other major review site. Prices are understandably lower in countries where the hobby is either legal or where there's little or no enforcement. Haven't yet been to Shanghai but I've enjoyed both Germany and the Netherlands.
In fact, when making an overnight connection through Frankfurt (arrive during the day / eve with onward flight the next morning), an interesting alternative to a regular hotel room is to spend the night at an FKK instead. I'm sure it's possible with other German cities but here's one way to do it in Frankfurt:
Pay a few euros to leave larger bags overnight at the airport storage counter (take toiletries and anything else you need in a small bag) and then take the train or bus to the city center. From there take a taxi to a one of the well-reviewed FKKs (some will even pick you up from the airport for a fee). At the FKK you pay a cover charge for a locker, an all you can eat / drink (non-alcoholic) buffet, clean shower area, quiet areas to rest or sleep, and of course a wide variety of providers to choose from. Each is independent and while there's a standard fee structure you can negotiate for special services (make sure you bring enough cash as there may not be an ATM at the FKK). Here's one link to check out for more info:
http://www.frankfurt-nightlife-guide.com/sauna-clubs-fkk/
The cost is definitely less than paying for a hotel, food and an escort. If you need to explain (for work or SO) why you didn't get a hotel, you can just say you spent the night at the airport to save money and time. Of course, don't forget to pay attention to important logistical issues. For example, double-check open / close times for both the FKK and the airport storage counter. If the FKK closes at 4 or 5 am, make sure you've prearranged your transportation back to the airport. Also, since airport storage isn't 24/7 make sure it opens in time to get your bags and make your flight.
Damn, writing this post brings back some great memories! Sure wish the US would move more in the direction of Europe when it comes to the hobby.
=============================================
Gents,
If you guys want to discuss traveling to international destinations to get laid, why don't you visit my International Sex Guide forum at:
http://www.internationalsexguide.info
Thanks,
Jackson
FYI we have whole sections on FKK's in Germany
A2
Member #4911
03-13-15, 20:39
Police: Manassas massage parlor was front for prostitution ring.
http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/police-manassas-massage-parlor-was-front-for-prostitution-ring/article_f97531aa-c81a-11e4-9db4-2f15b4be87bc.html
Two women have been charged with running a prostitution ring out of a Manassas massage parlor. Investigators with the Manassas police department and the Prince William County / Manassas / Manassas Park Vice Narcotics Task Force executed a search warrant on March 10 at Blue Sky Massage, 8701 Digges Road, in Manassas, ending a three-month-long investigation into allegations that women at that business were exchanging sexual services for money. Manassas police spokeswoman Adrienne Helms said in a news release. Two women were arrested and charged with maintaining a bawdy house.
The police investigation is ongoing and more charges are pending, Helms said.
DcFishMonger
03-24-15, 03:52
Thanks Bud!
You are so right. Google watches and logs everything you do. Folks go back, log in and clear you hx, including maps, etc. This includes your Android phones.
Big bird is watching.If you really want to stay safe use proxies and VPNs. Many of the paid VPN services will accept everything from crypto-currency to gift cards and even allow you to purchase through Amazon as a subscription service. Some of those services even have apps for your smartphone to encrypt traffic on your phone.
Stay safe & GLHF!
Police: Manassas massage parlor was front for prostitution ring.
http://www.insidenova.com/headlines/police-manassas-massage-parlor-was-front-for-prostitution-ring/article_f97531aa-c81a-11e4-9db4-2f15b4be87bc.html
Two women have been charged with running a prostitution ring out of a Manassas massage parlor. Investigators with the Manassas police department and the Prince William County / Manassas / Manassas Park Vice Narcotics Task Force executed a search warrant on March 10 at Blue Sky Massage, 8701 Digges Road, in Manassas, ending a three-month-long investigation into allegations that women at that business were exchanging sexual services for money. Manassas police spokeswoman Adrienne Helms said in a news release. Two women were arrested and charged with maintaining a bawdy house.
The police investigation is ongoing and more charges are pending, Helms said.I see that Blue Sky is advertising again, so apparently have reopened. I have no idea if the charges were dropped or what? Too soon for me to try again though.
Member #4911
04-20-15, 12:25
I see that Blue Sky is advertising again, so apparently have reopened. I have no idea if the charges were dropped or what? Too soon for me to try again though.I saw the CL ads as well, a bit disconcerting given the statement that the police investigation is ongoing with more charges pending, short time lapse, same name and phone number.
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/japan-ruling-paying-for-sex-not-adultery-strictly-business/
Partaking in the hobby is not adultery since it's strictly a business transaction. Of course, to get the full benefit of the court's ruling you'll need to move to Japan. Now if only the USA would catch up to the rest of the world and leave consensual adult behavior alone!
Guitarman1
07-16-15, 10:05
Someone posted this in the DC section. Not sure how many of you peek over there. LEO is making it more difficult for hoes to put their ads on Backpage.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/07/01/visa-mastercard-stop-business-with-backpage/29558315/
Someone posted this in the DC section. Not sure how many of you peek over there. LEO is making it more difficult for hoes to put their ads on Backpage.
http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2015/07/01/visa-mastercard-stop-business-with-backpage/29558315/This latest attempt to disrupt the oldest profession was bound to generate a response from either BP, the providers, or both.
Apparently BP struck first:
http://reason.com/blog/2015/07/07/backpagecom-stops-fees-for-adult-ads
If and when BP decides to reinstate fees, I'm guessing they'll work out a method that's more censorship-resistant. So this is merely the latest iteration of whack-a-mole played by puritans who refuse to recognize what most of the world has already come to terms with. And that is the simple fact that consensual adult behavior will always find a way to work itself out. Better in the long run to legalize or decriminalize and join the rest of the civilized world!
Happy Guy 2
07-16-15, 22:44
Smart reaction-response by Backpage. They deserve a pat on the back for caring about some of the finest services needed by humanity! . . And protecting our valued experienced professional and amateur caretakers that need to make an honest living. Agree it should be legalized and decriminalized since it is the opposite of a "victim" type of crime.
Thank you Backpage.
Happy Guy 2.
This latest attempt to disrupt the oldest profession was bound to generate a response from either BP, the providers, or both.
Apparently BP struck first:
http://reason.com/blog/2015/07/07/backpagecom-stops-fees-for-adult-ads
If and when BP decides to reinstate fees, I'm guessing they'll work out a method that's more censorship-resistant. So this is merely the latest iteration of whack-a-mole played by puritans who refuse to recognize what most of the world has already come to terms with. And that is the simple fact that consensual adult behavior will always find a way to work itself out. Better in the long run to legalize or decriminalize and join the rest of the civilized world!
I came across this article on one of Loudoun's local online news sites. Apparently, a newly minted Loudoun County deputy was busted via a prostitution sting originating from CL. Not sure the details on the sting but anyway be careful out there if you troll CL.
http://www.loudountimes.com/news/article/leesburg_deputy_arrested_for_soliciting_prostitution898
http://cnnphilippines.com/world/2015/08/12/Amnesty-International-votes-in-support-of-decriminalizing-sex-trade.html
One more voice drawing a clear distinction between consensual adult conduct and non-consensual trafficking. Probably won't have any short-term effect but one can hope that the tide will eventually start to turn in the USA.
http://cnnphilippines.com/world/2015/08/12/Amnesty-International-votes-in-support-of-decriminalizing-sex-trade.html
One more voice drawing a clear distinction between consensual adult conduct and non-consensual trafficking. Probably won't have any short-term effect but one can hope that the tide will eventually start to turn in the USA.WaPo Editorial board opposed Amnesty International, saying legalization has hurt more than helped in countries that have tried it. I don't know the evidence, but I suspect there are other explanations.
Interesting letters to the editor today: https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-case-for-legal-prostitution/2015/08/18/6c1fbafe-444e-11e5-9f53-d1e3ddfd0cda_story.html.
Did anyone see this report on one of the local TV stations?
http://wjla.com/news/local/nationwide-fbi-child-sex-trafficking-sting-saves-149-children-more-than-150-arrests-made
Did anyone see this report on one of the local TV stations?
http://wjla.com/news/local/nationwide-fbi-child-sex-trafficking-sting-saves-149-children-more-than-150-arrests-madeI saw it on a different news site. I'm happy it happened. If there are underage children being trafficked something needs to happen. The youngest was 12 years old. Messed up!
I saw it on a different news site. I'm happy it happened. If there are underage children being trafficked something needs to happen. The youngest was 12 years old. Messed up!I'd like to believe that this was the case but from the video the fbi released it looks like all they did was print out all the ads on Oct. 5 and 6 and tried to bust as many girls doing an out call as they could. Obviously they found some kids but they likely swept up everybody they croased paths with, minor or otherwise.
Bunker Buster
10-14-15, 17:41
Did anyone see this report on one of the local TV stations?
http://wjla.com/news/local/nationwide-fbi-child-sex-trafficking-sting-saves-149-children-more-than-150-arrests-madeWhen they say they arrested more than 150 pimps and others, does that mean 120 pimps and 35 drivers, or 10 pimps and 145 guys who didn't know they were meeting someone who wasn't really 21 like her ad said?
When they say they arrested more than 150 pimps and others, does that mean 120 pimps and 35 drivers, or 10 pimps and 145 guys who didn't know they were meeting someone who wasn't really 21 like her ad said?http://wtkr.com/2015/10/13/five-accused-virginia-beach-pimps-denied-bond/
This story says 3 juveniles were rescued and dozens of pimps arrested in VA Beach and other area towns. It also gives some background about how a dating relationship with one juvenile apparently turned into a pimped relationship. It may be accurate or it may be hyped up but here are some general observations:
If LE targets enough BP ads with young-looking providers they're bound to find a few of them who are underage. Not only are their overall numbers vague, but they also don't give a total number of incidents from which the 149 rescued children and 150 pimps and "others" are drawn. Since it was a nationwide sting (over how many weeks / months, I wonder) are we talking 1,000 incidents? 10,000? 50,000? Why that's relevant is because knowing the total would show what is the real extent of the problem, in percentage terms.
What's also relevant is the age breakdown of the 149. How many were 17? How many were 16? This becomes important when you consider that the age of consent in many states is lower than 18. Here's a chart that spells out at what age someone can legally consent to sex and also whether there's a defense in that state when the minor appears older than her actual age. What's interesting is that, if Federal statutes are used (such as anti-trafficking) I've read that the age of consent gets artificially bumped up to 18 even if the state where the arrest takes place uses a lower age for violations under state statutes.
http://www.ageofconsent.us/
So, even though local LE has had vice units for a long, long time, it pays to partner with the FBI because that brings the tougher Fed rules into play. And it also pays in a more literal sense because a sh*tload of $ gets funneled into local departments and task forces for anything having an anti-trafficking label. And that means, even admitting there is some level of problem with trafficking of underage providers, it's simply not possible to take LE's numbers and characterization at face value because they have a clear, self-serving motive to make the trafficking issue look as big as possible.
Bottom line for LEO: no, we're not going to just take your word for it.
Bottom line for hobbyists: do your homework and don't take a chance on any provider who looks to be anywhere close to the adult / juvenile line.
http://wtkr.com/2015/10/13/five-accused-virginia-beach-pimps-denied-bond/
What's also relevant is the age breakdown of the 149. How many were 17? How many were 16? This becomes important when you consider that the age of consent in many states is lower than 18. Here's a chart that spells out at what age someone can legally consent to sex and also whether there's a defense in that state when the minor appears older than her actual age. What's interesting is that, if Federal statutes are used (such as anti-trafficking) I've read that the age of consent gets artificially bumped up to 18 even if the state where the arrest takes place uses a lower age for violations under state statutes.
That's a really good point and the first reports may have been skewed.
Robespiere
10-15-15, 17:25
http://wtkr.com/2015/10/13/five-accused-virginia-beach-pimps-denied-bond/
This story says 3 juveniles were rescued and dozens of pimps arrested in VA Beach and other area towns. It also gives some background about how a dating relationship with one juvenile apparently turned into a pimped relationship. It may be accurate or it may be hyped up but here are some general observations:
If LE targets enough BP ads with young-looking providers they're bound to find a few of them who are underage. Not only are their overall numbers vague, but they also don't give a total number of incidents from which the 149 rescued children and 150 pimps and "others" are drawn. Since it was a nationwide sting (over how many weeks / months, I wonder) are we talking 1,000 incidents? 10,000? 50,000? Why that's relevant is because knowing the total would show what is the real extent of the problem, in percentage terms.
What's also relevant is the age breakdown of the 149. How many were 17? How many were 16? This becomes important when you consider that the age of consent in many states is lower than 18. Here's a chart that spells out at what age someone can legally consent to sex and also whether there's a defense in that state when the minor appears older than her actual age. What's interesting is that, if Federal statutes are used (such as anti-trafficking) I've read that the age of consent gets artificially bumped up to 18 even if the state where the arrest takes place uses a lower age for violations under state statutes.
http://www.ageofconsent.us/
So, even though local LE has had vice units for a long, long time, it pays to partner with the FBI because that brings the tougher Fed rules into play. And it also pays in a more literal sense because a sh*tload of $ gets funneled into local departments and task forces for anything having an anti-trafficking label. And that means, even admitting there is some level of problem with trafficking of underage providers, it's simply not possible to take LE's numbers and characterization at face value because they have a clear, self-serving motive to make the trafficking issue look as big as possible.
Bottom line for LEO: no, we're not going to just take your word for it.
Bottom line for hobbyists: do your homework and don't take a chance on any provider who looks to be anywhere close to the adult / juvenile line.According to court testimony, there was an instance of where one of these girls was taken across state lines (North Carolina). That. Is a whole new ball game. That falls under the Mann Act.
Bottom line. These human scum are finished for a long time. That you can take as Gospel. Not "maybe", not "kinda", not "sorta". Kaput.
According to court testimony, there was an instance of where one of these girls was taken across state lines (North Carolina). That. Is a whole new ball game. That falls under the Mann Act.
Bottom line. These human scum are finished for a long time. That you can take as Gospel. Not "maybe", not "kinda", not "sorta". Kaput.Nothing in my post (or anyone else's that I can see) was meant to imply that child sex-trafficking, or adult sex-trafficking for that matter, isn't a heinous crime and that perpetrators don't deserve to rot in jail.
My only point is that there's a self-serving agenda on the part of LE and the media to try to portray all prostitution as trafficking. It serves LE because it keeps the grant and task force dollars flowing and it serves the media because the more salacious they can make any story, the higher their ratings. So I take any announcements made by those two entities with a giant boulder of salt, especially when the report is so vague as far as details, numbers, etc.
Another thing that makes me skeptical is that all the videos I've seen online from this operation look like the typical LE sting where a decoy female is used to get a male to make incriminating statements, after which LE rushes in from an adjacent room to make the arrest. I have no idea if this is archival footage of past stings or if this is actually from the current operation. But how exactly does this square with fighting child trafficking? The decoy is obviously LE and the arrestee is going to be an adult male 99% of the time. So, if a regular sting operation wasn't going to attract their target audience, then how exactly did they find the 149 children they reported rescuing?
Robespiere
10-16-15, 16:04
Nothing in my post (or anyone else's that I can see) was meant to imply that child sex-trafficking, or adult sex-trafficking for that matter, isn't a heinous crime and that perpetrators don't deserve to rot in jail.
My only point is that there's a self-serving agenda on the part of LE and the media to try to portray all prostitution as trafficking. It serves LE because it keeps the grant and task force dollars flowing and it serves the media because the more salacious they can make any story, the higher their ratings. So I take any announcements made by those two entities with a giant boulder of salt, especially when the report is so vague as far as details, numbers, etc.
Another thing that makes me skeptical is that all the videos I've seen online from this operation look like the typical LE sting where a decoy female is used to get a male to make incriminating statements, after which LE rushes in from an adjacent room to make the arrest. I have no idea if this is archival footage of past stings or if this is actually from the current operation. But how exactly does this square with fighting child trafficking? The decoy is obviously LE and the arrestee is going to be an adult male 99% of the time. So, if a regular sting operation wasn't going to attract their target audience, then how exactly did they find the 149 children they reported rescuing?The point of the post was that if indeed these girls were taken across state lines (in this case North Carolina), then there is a whole new additional aspect to the situation, and that is the Mann Act. That is serious matter and in most cases it results serious time if you are convicted of it.
I don't know how many of you participated, but the Reston weekly gangbangs have come to an abrupt end: https://www.restonnow.com/2016/01/22/police-bust-alleged-prostitution-club-on-northgate-square/.
I will admit that I signed up and got as far as the parking lot on one occasion. His MO was to have everyone show up at about the same time during the day at the same place. I watched as all of the guys got out of their vehicles at the same time and go into the same door of the apartment complex. The visibility was way too much for me to handle, and, fortunately, the Big Head prevailed.
The article says that he's already a convicted felon, so he paid a huge price.
Big Jizzle
01-27-16, 00:32
I don't know how many of you participated, but the Reston weekly gangbangs have come to an abrupt end: https://www.restonnow.com/2016/01/22/police-bust-alleged-prostitution-club-on-northgate-square/.
I will admit that I signed up and got as far as the parking lot on one occasion. His MO was to have everyone show up at about the same time during the day at the same place. I watched as all of the guys got out of their vehicles at the same time and go into the same door of the apartment complex. The visibility was way too much for me to handle, and, fortunately, the Big Head prevailed.
The article says that he's already a convicted felon, so he paid a huge price.I'm glad the little head prevailed for me too. I think he was advertising on CL. I came close to going once, only because of the convenience of location.
Damn! Just a reminder why many providers are so skittish and defensive when meeting clients for the first time.
From the details of the story, it appears the intended victim turned the tables on the predator and sent him to that special place in hell that waits for serial killers.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/neal-falls-las-vegas-dismemberments_us_55b08bc4e4b0a9b94853b60c?
I guess this shows how the Man can get you if he really wants you.
Here's the news story:
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2016/03/14/ags-office-announce-charges-against-prosecutor-dunnings/81758756/
And here's the LE affidavit:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/Stuart_Dunnings-Affidavit_-_54A_-_Dunnings_516941_7.pdf
Not sure how misdemeanor charges work in Michigan when the act isn't witnessed by LEO (as it would be in a sting operation). But the real hammer is the accusation of using his position to entice someone into prostitution.
Any legal beagles care to offer an opinion?
Bunker Buster
03-19-16, 12:28
I guess this shows how the Man can get you if he really wants you.
Here's the news story:
http://www.lansingstatejournal.com/story/news/local/2016/03/14/ags-office-announce-charges-against-prosecutor-dunnings/81758756/
And here's the LE affidavit:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/ag/Stuart_Dunnings-Affidavit_-_54A_-_Dunnings_516941_7.pdf
Not sure how misdemeanor charges work in Michigan when the act isn't witnessed by LEO (as it would be in a sting operation). But the real hammer is the accusation of using his position to entice someone into prostitution.
Any legal beagles care to offer an opinion?It's not about "the man" getting someone. This is a prosecutor who denounced prostitution, took away mongers' cars and charged them with felonies, while at the same time taking a woman who came to him for legal help and protection and turning her into his unwilling sugar baby.
He is facing a total of 15 criminal charges in Ingham, Clinton and Ionia counties, the most serious being a felony charge of prostitution-pandering for allegedly using his position to coerce a woman who came to him for help with a child custody case to have sex with him for money, according to court records.The investigators were put onto him by the FBI after hearing chatter about him during a human-trafficking investigation. The FBI isn't bothering with plain-old hobbying; they were looking into a serious case, and when the local prosecutor's name came up, a public-corruption investigation was absolutely needed.
It's not about "the man" getting someone. This is a prosecutor who denounced prostitution, took away mongers' cars and charged them with felonies, while at the same time taking a woman who came to him for legal help and protection and turning her into his unwilling sugar baby.
The investigators were put onto him by the FBI after hearing chatter about him during a human-trafficking investigation. The FBI isn't bothering with plain-old hobbying; they were looking into a serious case, and when the local prosecutor's name came up, a public-corruption investigation was absolutely needed.I hope my post didn't come across in any way as though I have any sympathy for this guy. I absolutely agree he crossed the line and needs to go down for using his position of authority and trust to entice a vulnerable woman into prostitution.
But what I found fascinating, and why I posted it as a cautionary tale, is the way LEO chose to expand the case and bring in many separate misdemeanor non-trafficking sex charges against not only him, but his brother.
From my reading of the affidavit, it looks like LEO was building a straight commercial sex and neglect of duty case against the guy when they discovered the sugar baby woman (listed last, as W-6). Even if she hadn't been part of the picture, they still would have gone forward because of the public corruption aspect, as you rightly pointed out. They may have had a felony angle already, because they could say they were looking for trafficking activity, but they definitely had it once they could tack on the pandering charge. With that in their pocket, LEO could look at bank, phone, text and email records which, combined with the statements of W-1 thru W-6, allowed them to build a strong circumstantial case on the misdemeanor charges.
So the cautionary element for DMV mongers, IMHO, is how aggressive and expansive LEO can get, even when it comes to misdemeanor violations, if you happen to get in their cross-hairs. One analogy to local conditions would be if some hobbyist with a govt job and security clearance gets identified as a client of a provider who gets swept up in an investigation involving any kind of alleged (and we all know how expansive the definition can be) trafficking. Once that hobbyist gets on the radar screen, maybe the FBI or local LEO refer the matter to whatever investigative agency covers that hobbyist's department. Since Michigan was able to build what looks like a strong case on non-Federal misdemeanor sex charges, even without LEO having to directly witness the violation, could that also happen in DC, MD or VA? I think many mongers believe that, as long as they steer clear of obvious stings, they're safe, but maybe not. I'm not saying it's a likely scenario, but it certainly seems more possible than I thought before reading about this case. And to me it highlights the importance of doing good homework and sticking with established and well-reviewed providers.
One thing that's not clear is whether the misdemeanor charges will stick or whether they were tacked on in a "kitchen sink" approach. That's why I would be interested in the opinion of any forum members with legal knowledge.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/senate-votes-to-hold-website-in-contempt-over-sex-ads/2016/03/17/8f3bf1ce-ec6e-11e5-a9ce-681055c7a05f_story.html
That would suck if BP caved under pressure and did away with adult ads like CL did. I'm sure another website would take up the slack since there's no way the hobby will ever go away but there's always an inconvenient adjustment period.
Hey Congress, get a clue and legalize consenting adult behavior like most of the civilized world has already done!
Bunker Buster
03-20-16, 17:39
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/senate-votes-to-hold-website-in-contempt-over-sex-ads/2016/03/17/8f3bf1ce-ec6e-11e5-a9ce-681055c7a05f_story.html
That would suck if BP caved under pressure and did away with adult ads like CL did. I'm sure another website would take up the slack since there's no way the hobby will ever go away but there's always an inconvenient adjustment period.
Hey Congress, get a clue and legalize consenting adult behavior like most of the civilized world has already done!That's up to the states. Congress only has power when it crosses state lines, which involves legitimate questions about trafficking.
Grafenberg
03-20-16, 19:39
https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/senate-votes-to-hold-website-in-contempt-over-sex-ads/2016/03/17/8f3bf1ce-ec6e-11e5-a9ce-681055c7a05f_story.html
That would suck if BP caved under pressure and did away with adult ads like CL did. I'm sure another website would take up the slack since there's no way the hobby will ever go away but there's always an inconvenient adjustment period.
Hey Congress, get a clue and legalize consenting adult behavior like most of the civilized world has already done!It would be great if it went to the Supreme Court and ruled protected speech under the 1st.
Much thanks to JmSuttr for bringing this case to light for those of us in the DMV area. I certainly would have missed it. Mr. Suttr is correct, this kind of broadening investigation should give many of us pause. This case heightens my concerns for the overall risk involved, particularly due to my job. Any time LEO can expand an investigation, they probably will about 99% of the time for a variety of reasons (E. G. making a splash in the media, seeking a feather in their cap, some simply have misguided morality in mind, and some are just assholes).
As well as being a world-class hypocrite, this guy primarily falls into the asshole category. The fact that he goes after other guys for doing the exact same thing he did makes me feel unconcerned that they are throwing the book at him. But it definitely makes me concerned about using those tactics on the "average Joe", or average "John" in this case.
However, the coercion he used to get W-6 to basically become a "sugar baby" is certainly not uncommon. The fine line here that he definitely crossed is he had a position of power over W-6. A position of power in the community that he exploited. Had it not been for that, he might engender sympathy from those of us in this fraternity. But I detest hypocrites!
As for the takeaway: Use extreme caution, limit the number of women one interacts with, make sure they are vetted through reviews or come from referrals from one's bretheren, and ALWAYS remain as anonymous as possible. Use a hobby phone, create an alias, never host incall at one's home, and never ever give out personal info for screening, especially work information!!
Many in this area have too much at risk to be careless or let their guard down. It will limit the experiences one might have, missing out on some talented ladies, but for some of us it is just a condition of the employment we have chosen. The best advice is cliche, "Always think with the big head".
Stay safe,
Derringer.
I hope my post didn't come across in any way as though I have any sympathy for this guy. I absolutely agree he crossed the line and needs to go down for using his position of authority and trust to entice a vulnerable woman into prostitution.
But what I found fascinating, and why I posted it as a cautionary tale, is the way LEO chose to expand the case and bring in many separate misdemeanor non-trafficking sex charges against not only him, but his brother.
From my reading of the affidavit, it looks like LEO was building a straight commercial sex and neglect of duty case against the guy when they discovered the sugar baby woman (listed last, as W-6). Even if she hadn't been part of the picture, they still would have gone forward because of the public corruption aspect, as you rightly pointed out. They may have had a felony angle already, because they could say they were looking for trafficking activity, but they definitely had it once they could tack on the pandering charge. With that in their pocket, LEO could look at bank, phone, text and email records which, combined with the statements of W-1 thru W-6, allowed them to build a strong circumstantial case on the misdemeanor charges.
So the cautionary element for DMV mongers, IMHO, is how aggressive and expansive LEO can get, even when it comes to misdemeanor violations, if you happen to get in their cross-hairs. One analogy to local conditions would be if some hobbyist with a govt job and security clearance gets identified as a client of a provider who gets swept up in an investigation involving any kind of alleged (and we all know how expansive the definition can be) trafficking. Once that hobbyist gets on the radar screen, maybe the FBI or local LEO refer the matter to whatever investigative agency covers that hobbyist's department. Since Michigan was able to build what looks like a strong case on non-Federal misdemeanor sex charges, even without LEO having to directly witness the violation, could that also happen in DC, MD or VA? I think many mongers believe that, as long as they steer clear of obvious stings, they're safe, but maybe not. I'm not saying it's a likely scenario, but it certainly seems more possible than I thought before reading about this case. And to me it highlights the importance of doing good homework and sticking with established and well-reviewed providers.
One thing that's not clear is whether the misdemeanor charges will stick or whether they were tacked on in a "kitchen sink" approach. That's why I would be interested in the opinion of any forum members with legal knowledge.
http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/online-site-where-men-rated-prostitutes-is-shut-down-charges-to-be-filed/
http://www.johntlaw.com/promoting-prostitution
It's getting nasty out there, folks. I know this is about the Seattle area, not the DMV, but it's still worth a post because sh*t can happen anywhere. At a minimum, it should serve as a caution to stay far away from anything or anyone that could even remotely be connected to alleged "trafficking" (real or imagined).
Laura Rager
03-26-16, 11:08
From News Accounts: "Two men were assaulted and robbed in the Lincolnia neigh-borhood early Monday morning by a female escort and several of her male accomplices. Officers from the Alex-andria Police epartment re-sponded to the 100 block of Bragg St. At around 5:21 am March 21 after two men met with a woman they knew to be an escort and she took them to a hotel room in the area. Police spokeswoman Crys-tal Nosal said once inside the hotel room, the men were beat-en and robbed by upwards of three unknown male suspects. ".
GuyInTheCorner
03-26-16, 13:35
You realize sometimes its just better to jerk off at home. !
Bunker Buster
03-28-16, 01:58
From News Accounts: "Two men were assaulted and robbed in the Lincolnia neigh-borhood early Monday morning by a female escort and several of her male accomplices. Officers from the Alex-andria Police epartment re-sponded to the 100 block of Bragg St. At around 5:21 am March 21 after two men met with a woman they knew to be an escort and she took them to a hotel room in the area. Police spokeswoman Crys-tal Nosal said once inside the hotel room, the men were beat-en and robbed by upwards of three unknown male suspects. ".The only hotel in the 100 block is the Days Inn, which I avoid 99.9% of the time, only breaking my rule against going there once in the last few years to see the amputee last month.
Bragg Towers at the end of that road is the public housing equivalent of a hotel, with the desk clerk hiding behind bulletproof glass. The last time I was there was a good 4-5 years ago, and I bailed after seeing some sketchy characters inside the place.
That block, which includes the Comfort Inn, is considered a "high prostitution area" by John Law, who uses that designation to stop people at will.
Roamin Roman
03-28-16, 19:14
From News Accounts: "Two men were assaulted and robbed in the Lincolnia neigh-borhood early Monday morning by a female escort and several of her male accomplices. Officers from the Alex-andria Police epartment re-sponded to the 100 block of Bragg St. At around 5:21 am March 21 after two men met with a woman they knew to be an escort and she took them to a hotel room in the area. Police spokeswoman Crys-tal Nosal said once inside the hotel room, the men were beat-en and robbed by upwards of three unknown male suspects. ".Yes, even though no demographic details were provided, one could say that Bragg Street is a "diverse" area. I'm guessing that the perps weren't blue-eyed Swedes. Perhaps they were members of the tongs or triads, or some other demographic group. Regardless, the Days Inn isn't going to attract the high-level (and usually not even the mid-level) providers or clientele. Situational awareness, as Bunker exercised on his excursion a while ago, is needed.
From News Accounts: "Two men were assaulted and robbed in the Lincolnia neigh-borhood early Monday morning by a female escort and several of her male accomplices. Officers from the Alex-andria Police epartment re-sponded to the 100 block of Bragg St. At around 5:21 am March 21 after two men met with a woman they knew to be an escort and she took them to a hotel room in the area. Police spokeswoman Crys-tal Nosal said once inside the hotel room, the men were beat-en and robbed by upwards of three unknown male suspects. ".Some years ago I visited a well-reviewed (and now retired) provider at the Comfort Inn in that vicinity. I had to park a couple of blocks down Bragg Street and was relieved when I discovered my car was still in one piece upon my return. I've got no desire to see anyone at that place ever again, not even for a social visit.
https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/end-to-end-encryption
With whatsapp enabling free end-to-end encryption (for both voice and text) by default, I would encourage every member to make full use of its upgraded security (unless you have something better).
I would also encourage every forum member to educate providers about this enhanced security option.
Happy hunting and stay safe!
Bunker Buster
04-09-16, 16:47
https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/end-to-end-encryption
With whatsapp enabling free end-to-end encryption (for both voice and text) by default, I would encourage every member to make full use of its upgraded security (unless you have something better).
I would also encourage every forum member to educate providers about this enhanced security option.
Happy hunting and stay safe!Can you imagine trying to make the argument to them? Maybe a few of the older ones who keep the same phone and try to keep regulars for years might understand, but 99% of these girls are young and fly-by-night, who can't plan beyond earning tomorrow's hotel fee.
https://blog.whatsapp.com/10000618/end-to-end-encryption
With whatsapp enabling free end-to-end encryption (for both voice and text) by default, I would encourage every member to make full use of its upgraded security (unless you have something better).
I would also encourage every forum member to educate providers about this enhanced security option.
Happy hunting and stay safe!I have used Whatsapp for communicating with people outside of the country. It worked best for me when both parties had wifi, but should work over your phone data network. The problem is that both parties need it installed. If your provider does not have it, you can't use it.
RedBaron Daron
04-10-16, 15:16
Can you imagine trying to make the argument to them? Maybe a few of the older ones who keep the same phone and try to keep regulars for years might understand, but 99% of these girls are young and fly-by-night, who can't plan beyond earning tomorrow's hotel fee.Very true,. These girls use their personal numbers in their ads which connect to their Facebook page. They think encryption means getting magazines in the mail.
Can you imagine trying to make the argument to them? Maybe a few of the older ones who keep the same phone and try to keep regulars for years might understand, but 99% of these girls are young and fly-by-night, who can't plan beyond earning tomorrow's hotel fee.I don't have any illusions about the business or security sense of many of the providers out there but there are some who might try it out and from those it's certainly possible for word to get around.
It's a pretty simple argument and also not a very heavy lift. If a few hobbyists, maybe just before leaving after a session, say something like "Hey, Hon, you ever heard of Whatsapp? It's a free app that keeps your calls / texts totally private. You should check it out. " maybe that's all that's needed.
As you mentioned, older providers who care about cultivating regulars are the most likely adopters but I wouldn't categorically rule out younger ones. Yes, a lot of them are flaky and dealing with various issues, but the fact they're younger means they're generally more familiar and comfortable with technology.
And, since providers talk and give advice to each other, and even copy (both in good and bad ways) from each other, if a few providers start using more secure means of communications, it has the potential to spread. Finally, since some of the cautionary tales posted about earlier illustrate how investigations into alleged "trafficking" can easily expand and catch ordinary hobbyists in their net, anything free and easy that has the potential to increase security is worth a mention, IMHO.
Former President Jimmy Carter published a column in the Washington Post calling for buyers of sex to be punished rather than sellers, based on the so-called "Nordic model. " I'll offer my comments later, but I want to open this for discussion among my fellow mongers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-curb-prostitution-punish-those-who-buy-sex-rather-than-those-who-sell-it/2016/05/31/e0376adc-236d-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2Fstory
Roamin Roman
06-01-16, 19:46
Former President Jimmy Carter published a column in the Washington Post calling for buyers of sex to be punished rather than sellers, based on the so-called "Nordic model. " I'll offer my comments later, but I want to open this for discussion among my fellow mongers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-curb-prostitution-punish-those-who-buy-sex-rather-than-those-who-sell-it/2016/05/31/e0376adc-236d-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2FstoryOl' Jimbo, still irrelevant after all these years.
Let's apply Jimbo's "Nordic Model" to other transactional areas. For instance, using his logic, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of illegal drugs. And, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of stolen merchandise. And, applying Jimmy's model to our nation's interests, we ought to punish the buyers (I. E. , foreign agents), rather than the sellers (I. E. , traitors), of secret national security information.
Jimbo is still the nitwit he always was. If he wants to keep doing good, he ought to go pound more nails (with Habitat for Humanity).
Roman
Grafenberg
06-01-16, 20:04
Former President Jimmy Carter published a column in the Washington Post calling for buyers of sex to be punished rather than sellers, based on the so-called "Nordic model. " I'll offer my comments later, but I want to open this for discussion among my fellow mongers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-curb-prostitution-punish-those-who-buy-sex-rather-than-those-who-sell-it/2016/05/31/e0376adc-236d-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2FstoryIt's people trying to push their morals on others. If you don't like it fine you are not forced to participate, but don't tell others they are not permitted.
Former President Jimmy Carter published a column in the Washington Post calling for buyers of sex to be punished rather than sellers, based on the so-called "Nordic model. " I'll offer my comments later, but I want to open this for discussion among my fellow mongers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/to-curb-prostitution-punish-those-who-buy-sex-rather-than-those-who-sell-it/2016/05/31/e0376adc-236d-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html?hpid=hp_no-name_opinion-card-e%3Ahomepage%2FstoryIf you scratch the surface of most of the arguments posed by opponents of legalized prostitution, underneath you'll generally find one or more of the following false premises:
1. Prostitutes = Victims.
2. Prostitution = Violence against women.
3. Prostitution = Human trafficking.
Of course, to the extent those things do exist within prostitution, they should absolutely be rooted out and the perpetrators brought to justice. Ironically, the likelihood of fighting those evils is much higher if prostitution is legalized than it is if prostitution is kept in the shadows. Anyone who questions how it can be made to work in a civilized society need look no farther than the FKKs and red light districts of Germany.
I find it strange and bizarre that I can pick up a woman in a bar, go home with her and sleep with her, and that is considered perfectly legal. But if I meet with a woman in a similar consenting adults fashion and an exchange of money is involved, I face the possibility of arrest and prosecution. And even though prostitution is generally considered a low-level misdemeanor, an arrest and / or conviction can ruin lives and careers. In a day and age where even entry-level jobs require background checks, it can also ruin employment prospects for those seeking work. Those supporting the so-called "Nordic model" seem to have little concern for the potential effects of their legislative and social agendas.
Ol' Jimbo, still irrelevant after all these years.
Let's apply Jimbo's "Nordic Model" to other transactional areas. For instance, using his logic, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of illegal drugs. And, we ought to punish the buyers, rather than the sellers, of stolen merchandise. And, applying Jimmy's model to our nation's interests, we ought to punish the buyers (I. E. , foreign agents), rather than the sellers (I. E. , traitors), of secret national security information.
Jimbo is still the nitwit he always was. If he wants to keep doing good, he ought to go pound more nails (with Habitat for Humanity).
RomanI agree. The "Nordic model" makes little sense. Yet Jimmy Carter's argument could still carry some weight. Although many observers, including yours truly, consider him to be a failure as president, he's been transformed into an elder statesman and respected human rights activist over the last 30 years or so. It may take several court opinions to bring about changes in our prostitution laws.
If you scratch the surface of most of the arguments posed by opponents of legalized prostitution, underneath you'll generally find one or more of the following false premises:
1. Prostitutes = Victims.
2. Prostitution = Violence against women.
3. Prostitution = Human trafficking.
Of course, to the extent those things do exist within prostitution, they should absolutely be rooted out and the perpetrators brought to justice. Ironically, the likelihood of fighting those evils is much higher if prostitution is legalized than it is if prostitution is kept in the shadows. Anyone who questions how it can be made to work in a civilized society need look no farther than the FKKs and red light districts of Germany.You make some good points, and I would add pimps who are trafficking minors to your list. That can be dealt with while keeping consenting adults behavior legal, even when an exchange of money is involved.
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/montgomery-county-prostitution-incident-blotter
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/county-specific-prostitution-blotters
It's a mix of reports from all over the DMV.
Kudos to senior Mpduration for posting on the MoCo board. I saw it there and thought it was worth a repost here to highlight why safety should always be a top concern.
http://pilotonline.com/news/local/cr...6f16f6cb1.html
We appreciate the free advertising. Please be nice to the new guys that are going to show up because they read the article.
A2
Bunker Buster
07-26-16, 14:30
http://pilotonline.com/news/local/cr...6f16f6cb1.html
We appreciate the free advertising. Please be nice to the new guys that are going to show up because they read the article.
A2http://pilotonline.com/news/local/crime/more-than-massages-a-hidden-sex-industry-in-hampton-roads/article_7a982922-d3f7-5d63-9325-47d6f16f6cb1.html
53 yrs old. How do these places do any business. Are we mongers suffering from a granny obsession?
http://pilotonline.com/news/local/crime/more-than-massages-a-hidden-sex-industry-in-hampton-roads/article_7a982922-d3f7-5d63-9325-47d6f16f6cb1.html
Mustang946
07-27-16, 10:35
53 yrs old. How do these places do any business. Are we mongers suffering from a granny obsession?While on a business trip to VB, I stopped in that establishment. The women were older but attractive. Good massage with decent finish. House fee was lower there than here in NOVA. Sorry to hear they had trouble.
Big Jizzle
07-27-16, 12:46
53 yrs old. How do these places do any business. Are we mongers suffering from a granny obsession?I assume it's the status quo for alot of us mongers. There are plenty of older gems to be found though. As long as they aren't on drugs, the drama factor is always lower, they are more experienced in dealing with hotel staff, LE, etc, and more experienced in handling the rod. 53 is too old, she has to be exceptionally gorgeous for me to take the plunge at that age. Normally my cut off point is early to mid 40's.
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http://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/web-site-asks-supreme-court-block-subpoena-sex-ads
The battle is shaping up as free speech vs "anti-trafficking".
http://www.rollcall.com/news/policy/web-site-asks-supreme-court-block-subpoena-sex-ads
The battle is shaping up as free speech vs "anti-trafficking".Thanks for the update. I wonder how this will turn out. I hope BP wins. I also find it interesting that two of the senators mentioned in this article are considered vulnerable in the upcoming election and the third is expected to face a strong challenge in 2018.
Roamin Roman
09-08-16, 05:43
Thanks for the update. I wonder how this will turn out. I hope BP wins. I also find it interesting that two of the senators mentioned in this article are considered vulnerable in the upcoming election and the third is expected to face a strong challenge in 2018.I wonder how these three Senators, and especially Claire McCaskill (D-Mo), would feel about having their own correspondence opened to the public, in the same way they want to have access to the Backpage business records. After all, the American public would most likely want to screen the senators' correspondence for warning signs of pay-for-play and other corruption.
Frankly, while my political sentiments are to the right of center, I hope all three of these senators (two of whom are nominally with the GOP) get bounced out of office and sent back to their home districts. In my opinion, McCaskill is just plain reprehensible, Kirk is a cowardly sellout to the gun control crowd, and Portman is largely progressive mush. The issue of Backpage ads and so-called "trafficking" is an easy issue to take on for political expediency. After all, who can be against "trafficking"?
The problem is, none of these senators is standing for Free Press, Free Speech, and Free Association. If they really want to put a stop to real trafficking, they need to clamp down on illegal migration into the country. But, we all know how that argument goes. Just my opinion, of course. Other members may disagree. After all, we're a large community here. The main point, though, is Backpage's ability to offer ad space to a non-traditional customer base.
The United States Supreme Court ordered Backpage to comply with the Senate subpoena and produce the documents they're seeking.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/backpage-com-sex-ad-subpoena-fight-ends-supreme-court-sides-with-senate/
Grafenberg
09-17-16, 00:41
The United States Supreme Court ordered Backpage to comply with the Senate subpoena and produce the documents they're seeking.
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2016/09/backpage-com-sex-ad-subpoena-fight-ends-supreme-court-sides-with-senate/They should use the tactics of Hitlary and have their lawyers delete everything saying it wasn't related.
And by "demand side" I mean new LE tactics being used against review writers.
Here is a national news article:
http://www.marketplace.org/2016/09/16/world/battle-against-sex-trafficking-turns-prostitution-review-sites
This could have a broad chilling effect on those of us who write reviews. So should we be worried here or on the oThER board?
I'm very curious to hear your opinions about this one. To me, it seems there are constitutional issues of freedom of speech and freedom of association.
In case the web link goes dead, here is the entire news article:
Battle against sex trafficking turns to prostitution review sites
By Sasha Aslanian
September 16, 2016 | 2:30 PM
Seattle, WA
Last year, Luke Hillman began meeting with a group of sex buyers. They were guys he met online.
Looking at them in a bar, you would have no idea, Hillman said. Theyre just normal guys.
The men worked for some of the regions most prominent employers: Microsoft, Boeing, Amazon. One was a radiologist. Another was a dentist.
During their meetups in local bars, the men would discuss their hobby hiring Korean prostitutes.
I remember sitting there the first time, and I was just like ... looking around, praying that nobody would see me sitting with these guys and would hear what they were saying, Hillman said.
The men didnt know that Hillman, the man they had invited into their elite circle, was actually an undercover detective.
Law enforcement is beginning to take notice of so-called John boards review sites where customers rate prostitutes. The men busted in this Seattle group earlier this year exposed a secretive world where online sex buyers are treading on a whole new level of criminal behavior.
The men had met on TheReviewBoard.net (that now leads to a notice saying it was seized by the King County Sheriff's Office). Its one of many sites across the country where men rate prostitutes. Investigators estimate the Review Board had between 15,000 and 20,000 members.
The men would describe a woman's weight, race, breast size, which sex acts she was willing to perform and her hourly rate.
Hillman wrote fake reviews and was invited to join a subgroup that called itself The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen. Police documents show they were spending $300 per session, multiple times a week.
The League attracted the attention of law enforcement not because its members bought a lot of sex, but because of how they worked together. The men wrote glowing reviews to draw customers to their favorite women. That kept the women in town longer and encouraged the seven agencies supplying the women to send new prospects their way.
So they were really operating as pimps, said Valiant Richey, a senior deputy prosecuting attorney for King County and one of the lead attorneys on the case. Theyre charged with promoting prostitution because they expanded the market, they facilitated visits to these women, they connected new buyers to the women and helped with the screening process."
After six months of undercover surveillance, law enforcement closed in. They busted eight brothels. A dozen Korean women were offered human trafficking victim services and released.
The leagues website and the larger website, the Review Board, were seized.
Weve just taken down one small tentacle of whats going on, said King County Sheriff John Urquhart at a news conference announcing the arrests in January. There are still umpteen websites out there that we havent gotten to yet.
Instead of charging the 16 league members with buying sex, a misdemeanor, they were charged with promoting prostitution a felony. More than half have pleaded guilty.
At his sentencing, one of the men, Paul Rhinehart, expressed remorse and said hed been drawn into friendships and lost perspective. I took on a misguided feeling that this was a community like other legitimate communities, he told the court.
About 15 percent of American men buy sex at some point. Only a small fraction of them are hobbyists like the men in Seattle. This review board is gone, but it has left a digital trail that could help law enforcement come to a better understanding of how frequent buyers operate.
Alex Trouteaud of youthSpark in Atlanta studied the data on North American sex buyers. He found 5 percent of them account for nearly half of illegal sex transactions.
In order to feed their habit, these buyers need to find new sources of sex and avoid the cops. That means they have to share intel.
'John boards are far and away the fastest and easiest place to find these individuals, Trouteaud said.
Prosecutors said the Seattle case opened up a new window into the sex trade, where internet crowdsourcing allows buyers to work together to blur the lines between supply and demand.
--30--
Again, I am mostly wondering if this makes anyone think twice about using this and other review boards?
Finally, I will say that I'm glad they at least freed some trafficking victims in doing all of this. But there has to be a better way to do that without infringing on civil liberties.
Derringer
RedBaron Daron
09-20-16, 15:55
I read that article the other day and I too am concerned. First amendment as well as many other rights have been crushed as a result of the Government trying to control all "unacceptable" activity. For example, a John gets busted in a Backpage sting at a motel and is given a citation and a day in court. But his face is posted all over the news and in the paper just for the charge. The damage is done. Even if you beat the charge, your done if you have anything to lose. That's the way it works. If you have anything to lose Big Brother will take it right or wrong. They will twist any law to suit that purpose. And very few can fight back and win.
Roamin Roman
09-20-16, 16:31
As A2 and Jackson have reminded us on numerous occasions, the servers for this site are apparently located overseas and are, thus, much more difficult for US authorities to subpoena or seize. I'm not saying the risk to USASG members is zero, but I'd say that, based on A2's past explanations, we have a lot less to worry about than US-based server sites. Besides, writing a review does not equate to promoting anything. The guys in the article (I. E. , The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) were actually working with the agencies that supplied the Korean prostitutes, helping to coordinate the movement of the girls. Unless anyone on this board is doing that, there is little risk of anyone here being charged with a similar crime.
I read that article the other day and I too am concerned. First amendment as well as many other rights have been crushed as a result of the Government trying to control all "unacceptable" activity. For example, a John gets busted in a Backpage sting at a motel and is given a citation and a day in court. But his face is posted all over the news and in the paper just for the charge. The damage is done. Even if you beat the charge, your done if you have anything to lose. That's the way it works. If you have anything to lose Big Brother will take it right or wrong. They will twist any law to suit that purpose. And very few can fight back and win.
And by "demand side" I mean new LE tactics being used against review writers.
Here is a national news article:
http://www.marketplace.org/2016/09/16/world/battle-against-sex-trafficking-turns-prostitution-review-sites
This could have a broad chilling effect on those of us who write reviews. So should we be worried here or on the oThER board?
I'm very curious to hear your opinions about this one. To me, it seems there are constitutional issues of freedom of speech and freedom of association.
Derringer
RedBaron Daron
09-20-16, 18:23
As A2 and Jackson have reminded us on numerous occasions, the servers for this site are apparently located overseas and are, thus, much more difficult for US authorities to subpoena or seize. I'm not saying the risk to USASG members is zero, but I'd say that, based on A2's past explanations, we have a lot less to worry about than US-based server sites. Besides, writing a review does not equate to promoting anything. The guys in the article (I. E. , The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) were actually working with the agencies that supplied the Korean prostitutes, helping to coordinate the movement of the girls. Unless anyone on this board is doing that, there is little risk of anyone here being charged with a similar crime.I was aware of the servers being out of the country which is good. But remember the US has passed laws that reach worldwide I. E. The banking disclosure laws, so I am just saying that I would not put it passed them. I am sure the guys in charge would wipe the servers before that ever became an issue. Might want to call in Hillary's people on that one.
As A2 and Jackson have reminded us on numerous occasions, the servers for this site are apparently located overseas and are, thus, much more difficult for US authorities to subpoena or seize. I'm not saying the risk to USASG members is zero, but I'd say that, based on A2's past explanations, we have a lot less to worry about than US-based server sites. Besides, writing a review does not equate to promoting anything. The guys in the article (I. E. , The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen) were actually working with the agencies that supplied the Korean prostitutes, helping to coordinate the movement of the girls. Unless anyone on this board is doing that, there is little risk of anyone here being charged with a similar crime.Even though I am building a reputation as Bar Clamp on this site, I do everything I can to keep Bar Clamp and my personal I'd separate. I always use a VPN when accessing this site. Sure the NSA can probably figure out who I am but they are not interested in using their resources to go after dudes who like to rent pussy. Local LEOs aren't interested in busting through VPN firewalls, they want the low hanging fruit. Bottom line: keep your monger persona here separate from your real online identity.
I first want to say that anything I've ever said on this board is fantasy and billshit so I can Jack Off. Second we are moving to 1984 I saw that old movie recently. Very scary times.
Miketastic69
09-21-16, 08:49
I first want to say that anything I've ever said on this board is fantasy and billshit so I can Jack Off. Second we are moving to 1984 I saw that old movie recently. Very scary times.Since I stopped paying my subscription to Penthouse I have been uploading my letters on this site. By the way, I'm a millionaire fighter pilot cage fighter born in Brazil and raised in Paris.
And by "demand side" I mean new LE tactics being used against review writers.
Here is a national news article:
http://www.marketplace.org/2016/09/16/world/battle-against-sex-trafficking-turns-prostitution-review-sites
This could have a broad chilling effect on those of us who write reviews. So should we be worried here or on the oThER board?
I'm very curious to hear your opinions about this one. To me, it seems there are constitutional issues of freedom of speech and freedom of association.I'm concerned, even if the servers are overseas. I recall reading a few years ago that one of the local police departments had supposedly infiltrated TER. Hopefully they haven't infiltrated this board as well. Unfortunately, the constitution and its protections mean nothing to zealots in positions of power. Damage can be done and reputations can be ruined even if police or prosecutors' actions are subsequently found to be illegal or unconstitutional.
I'm frankly surprised a judge hasn't struck down laws banning what is essentially consenting adults activity with an exchange of money being involved. Then again, I guess the anti-trafficking do-gooders want to hold everyone else hostage to their views.
It's like weed, I've never tried weed, but I think it should be legal. You see the government needs these laws that are vices to make money, all of them are getting high and paying for sex, everyone does it.
But if it's legal takes away the revenue they depend on and operate. What would happen if everyone obeyed the law? The police and government would rob us at 🔫 point like a common criminal.
My wife has given me pussy to get what she wants, should she be arrested? This world is just Fucked up.
I'm concerned, even if the servers are overseas. I recall reading a few years ago that one of the local police departments had supposedly infiltrated TER. Hopefully they haven't infiltrated this board as well. Unfortunately, the constitution and its protections mean nothing to zealots in positions of power. Damage can be done and reputations can be ruined even if police or prosecutors' actions are subsequently found to be illegal or unconstitutional.
I'm frankly surprised a judge hasn't struck down laws banning what is essentially consenting adults activity with an exchange of money being involved. Then again, I guess the anti-trafficking do-gooders want to hold everyone else hostage to their views.
The anti-trafficking do-gooders seem to assume that most providers are being trafficked against their will. I haven't found that to be the case during my visits with providers. I'll give an example from my early days of mongering. At that time, I frequently traveled and checked out places in other areas during my travels. I recall visiting an American massage parlor where the provider told me she was using her earnings to pay for her tuition and living expenses while pursuing a college degree. A few years later I visited the same place and saw a different provider. I mentioned whom I'd previously seen and found out she completed her degree, relocated and was enjoying success in her new career. Good for her.
Roamin Roman
09-22-16, 02:00
It's like weed, I've never tried weed, but I think it should be legal. You see the government needs these laws that are vices to make money, all of them are getting high and paying for sex, everyone does it.
But if it's legal takes away the revenue they depend on and operate. What would happen if everyone obeyed the law? The police and government would rob us at 🔫 point like a common criminal.
My wife has given me pussy to get what she wants, should she be arrested? This world is just Fucked up.
Not to start a pissing contest with you, JimRob, but I have to correct a slight misconception in your post.
The "government" hasn't outlawed certain vices, like marijuana or prostitution, in order to make money. In fact, the government would very likely increase its revenues if it legalized some of those vices, since it could then regulate (fees, licenses, etc.) and tax those vices. Plus, it could reduce its enforcement-related expenses as a result of that legalization. Writing tickets and charging court costs is chicken feed compared to the taxes and regulatory income a government could obtain.
The reason governments outlaw illicit drugs and prostitution is because of the demands of the civil society. Whether the majority of society are hypocrites or prudes or whatever, most people do not want these things legalized, since they consider them vices or sins and don't want their government giving official imprimatur to those activities.
There's also a cost impact in legalizing them, at least with regard to illicit drugs (or even just marijuana). Legalizing marijuana usage would have a negative effect on businesses, insurance, and public health. Outlawing marijuana, while it wouldn't necessarily eliminate it's use (far from it), at least has a salutary and sobering effect on people in that it will at least discourage some who might otherwise partake.
At any rate, the government doesn't "make money" by outlawing these things. And, it hardly needs these as an excuse to rob us. It doesn't even need a gun, since it already has something much better: the IRS. If our government wants more revenues, it simply raises taxes (and fees) on us and on businesses. At least, it does so until there is major pushback in the form of electoral change and the like.
With regard to the world being fucked up: Yeah, you're right on that score, and we don't even need to point to the troglodytes who worship some 7th-century Middle Eastern death cult. We can see it right here at home, with protests, burning of cars, smashing of windows, looting of stores, and daily accounts of shootings in many major cities (including Obama's home town of Chicago, which looks increasingly like "Aleppo-on-the-Lake").
But, if your wife is using her pussy to get what she wants, that's your fault. After all, you signed the marriage certificate and said "I do. " Besides, man has been on the losing side of that situation ever since Eve suckered Adam into trading away his leisurely life in the Garden of Eden for a bite of her apple. So, why are you whining here? You're not likely to find many sympathetic ears in this forum. Life can be tough, but that's why Jackson created the USASG, right? Right. Here, at least, you can get an occasional freebie (info-wise, that is).
Have fun, stay safe, be careful, and (as another member admonishes) "always be kind to the ladies. " Cheers, and peace out, home fry. Now, back to the exciting hunt for good pussy.
The anti-trafficking do-gooders seem to assume that most providers are being trafficked against their will. I haven't found that to be the case during my visits with providers. I'll give an example from my early days of mongering. At that time, I frequently traveled and checked out places in other areas during my travels. I recall visiting an American massage parlor where the provider told me she was using her earnings to pay for her tuition and living expenses while pursuing a college degree. A few years later I visited the same place and saw a different provider. I mentioned whom I'd previously seen and found out she completed her degree, relocated and was enjoying success in her new career. Good for her.100% true. This is the only profession that makes great, tax free money fast. Fuck 10 johns, make 1200 Plus less expenses. Alittle better than Mcds wages ehhh.
Most are not driven into slavery like that. I have been with and was boyfriend with quite a few over the last 15 yrs in this hobby.
PC out.
Roamin Roman
09-22-16, 10:05
The anti-trafficking do-gooders seem to assume that most providers are being trafficked against their will. I haven't found that to be the case during my visits with providers. I'll give an example from my early days of mongering. At that time, I frequently traveled and checked out places in other areas during my travels. I recall visiting an American massage parlor where the provider told me she was using her earnings to pay for her tuition and living expenses while pursuing a college degree. A few years later I visited the same place and saw a different provider. I mentioned whom I'd previously seen and found out she completed her degree, relocated and was enjoying success in her new career. Good for her.It might not be 100%, but it's probably close to 98% of those adults in this business are not being trafficked or coerced. Among the Asian population, and especially at the Asian massage parlors, those in this business are in it by choice because of its lucrative nature. Oftentimes, the women are in need of quick funds in order to pay off a debt or to obtain some much-needed emergency funds, which obviates the need to obtain a loan. One of the "Asian MILFs" that I met recently said she was trying to earn some seed money to eventually open a small restaurant, while another said she needed some extra money because she was taking care of her mother. Now, again, these might have merely been nice stories but, if so, then one has to ask why the girls were even offering those explanations at all. And, with regard to non-citizens (Asians, in particular) come here to work because their earning potential is so much greater.
Authorities, as well as so-called "women's rights" advocates (who are all too often ugly feminists who can't get decent dates or lesbians who resent the fact that men are "subordinating" the women), often use the excuse of "trafficking" in order to up the ante and be able to levy more serious criminal charges. Misdemeanor charges against AMP owners do little to discourage or eliminate AMPs; felony charges give the authorities more latitude in seizing assets and charging the owners and operators. Because some authorities are lazy, or because the desired laws that would allow them to enact the penalties they desire are not in place, charging people with "trafficking" (which can elevate things to a federal level) gives them more flexibility. Even if such charges are eventually dropped or lessened, they can encourage the defendant to plea rather than fight the charges.
Twelve Thai nationals and five Americans were charged with illegally transporting hundreds of women from Thailand and forcing them into prostitution in Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, DC, and other cities.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/1103161/us-charges-17-in-sex-trafficking-ring
Twelve Thai nationals and five Americans were charged with illegally transporting hundreds of women from Thailand and forcing them into prostitution in Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, DC, and other cities.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/1103161/us-charges-17-in-sex-trafficking-ringForce, coercion and holding on to all the cash: those are signs of real traffickers who need to be stopped and put away for a long time. Now if only LEO would focus on those cases and leave the voluntary businesswomen alone!
CoupleOfInches
10-05-16, 17:53
Twelve Thai nationals and five Americans were charged with illegally transporting hundreds of women from Thailand and forcing them into prostitution in Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, DC, and other cities.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/asia/1103161/us-charges-17-in-sex-trafficking-ringSeveral years ago, I was a regular visitor, on business to this land of gentle kind people. And yet, there is a dark side. I preferred Pattaya to Bangkok. Was there many years ago, when it was a beautiful beach with lots of talent walking around. Over the years it just kept sinking into the heavy sex trade. There were lots of go-go added as the years moved toward the 90's and the new century. Late 90's in one of the dance clubs (sucking a brew) noticed a very young girl, no more than twelve, maybe even less, sitting at one of the upper tables with a couple of bar girls. I started to ask about her and was told in no uncertain terms she was brand new. It was her second day in Pattaya. Seems, she was from northern Thailand and had been brought her by her family that were famers. We continued the conversation about what was going to happen to her. The manger had paid a nice price to bring the girl south and the plan was to work her for a period of time within the dance club, teach her the best way to service gentlemen. Then sell her virginity to the highest bidder. When asked how much would be the top bid, she said something on the order of 250 k to 300 k baht, roughly +/- $8000 US. How soon would that happen six months to a year. She then pointed out three other very young girls working as bar maids. Several months later, she was a bar maid and the Mama-son asked if I was interested. "Sorry, I would not even consider it. ".
Several years ago, I was a regular visitor, on business to this land of gentle kind people. And yet, there is a dark side. I preferred Pattaya to Bangkok. Was there many years ago, when it was a beautiful beach with lots of talent walking around. Over the years it just kept sinking into the heavy sex trade. There were lots of go-go added as the years moved toward the 90's and the new century. Late 90's in one of the dance clubs (sucking a brew) noticed a very young girl, no more than twelve, maybe even less, sitting at one of the upper tables with a couple of bar girls. I started to ask about her and was told in no uncertain terms she was brand new. It was her second day in Pattaya. Seems, she was from northern Thailand and had been brought her by her family that were famers. We continued the conversation about what was going to happen to her. The manger had paid a nice price to bring the girl south and the plan was to work her for a period of time within the dance club, teach her the best way to service gentlemen. Then sell her virginity to the highest bidder. When asked how much would be the top bid, she said something on the order of 250 k to 300 k baht, roughly +/- $8000 US. How soon would that happen six months to a year. She then pointed out three other very young girls working as bar maids. Several months later, she was a bar maid and the Mama-son asked if I was interested. "Sorry, I would not even consider it. ".Although this particular article references Thailand, you can find the problem all over the globe. For example, a Google search for sex trafficking in Europe will bring up many sordid stories.
The point I was trying to make in my post is that there are plenty of foreign-born providers, Thai, Chinese, Korean, Latina, European (etc.) who are working in the hobby on 100% voluntary basis. When LE uses the pretext of "trafficking" to go after them it detracts and diverts resources from the real thing.
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/Paxton-to-Hold-News-Conference-About-Human-Trafficking-396213311.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrand
Cowboy Wilson
10-06-16, 22:49
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/Paxton-to-Hold-News-Conference-About-Human-Trafficking-396213311.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrandI mean really, is it against the law to advertise escort services? I'm aware of this sites (seldom used in our area) classified ad page however, with no BP where do we go!! Oh the madness!!
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/Paxton-to-Hold-News-Conference-About-Human-Trafficking-396213311.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrandIn reading through the affidavit, it seems to me the gist of the prosecution's argument is that prostitution is facilitated by BP, and the CEO makes money from BP, so therefore the CEO is guilty of acting as a pimp for specific, individual escorts. Also, since some of those escorts were minors, additional charges can be tacked on.
One defense against that argument is that BP is nothing more than an online marketplace, like CL or FB or many other different sites, and all the CEO is responsible for is having some kind of reasonable screening process to try to filter out illegal activity and especially any sex-related activity by minors. While it's possible to argue that BP's processes didn't do a good job, that's not the same as the CEO having direct knowledge of individual acts of prostitution and intending to profit from them.
It's also interesting that this case is being brought under California law, not federal. Makes you think they must have had concerns they wouldn't be able to make Fed charges stick. Since BP's activities cross over state and national borders, I have a hard time believing the Feds wouldn't want a piece of this if they thought it had a decent chance of success. Just the sheer amount of fines and forfeiture they could get out of BP's worldwide operations would seem to make it worth it.
Lots of potential twists and turns and, while I don't know all the facts, I certainly hope BP hires some great lawyers and sticks this case right back down CA's throat.
I mean really, is it against the law to advertise escort services? I'm aware of this sites (seldom used in our area) classified ad page however, with no BP where do we go!! Oh the madness!!It's too lucrative. One possible scenario is for it to move operations to areas outside US jurisdiction, maybe even changing the business name. But I don't think the personal charges against the CEO will automatically cause the site to shut down. There would probably have to be a separate legal action filed to try to accomplish that. And that legal action could (and would) be challenged in the courts.
It won't be easy, straightforward or inexpensive, but let's hope BP puts up a good fight and wins!
So we have a state attorney general, currently seeking higher office, who's decided to make a name for herself a month ahead of the general election. Whether this tactic will succeed remains to be seen. In the meantime the defendants will have to spend some serious money hiring lawyers to defend themselves. Aside from some pretty obvious First Amendment issues, I really wonder if the charges can possibly stick. In addition, will this case be a priority for the next state attorney general should the incumbent's Senate campaign be successful?
I hope a judge laughs this case out of court. However, far too many judges legislate from the bench these days rather than interpret the law and constitution, so it's too early to predict how this will play out.
It's too lucrative. One possible scenario is for it to move operations to areas outside US jurisdiction, maybe even changing the business name. But I don't think the personal charges against the CEO will automatically cause the site to shut down. There would probably have to be a separate legal action filed to try to accomplish that. And that legal action could (and would) be challenged in the courts.
It won't be easy, straightforward or inexpensive, but let's hope BP puts up a good fight and wins!Just as Backpage became the top site for escort ads once Craigslist discontinued its adult services section, I'm sure some other site would step forward should Backpage get shut down or agrees to get out of the escort ads business. Those ads won't go away; they'll simply move elsewhere.
Roamin Roman
10-07-16, 03:18
http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/national-international/Paxton-to-Hold-News-Conference-About-Human-Trafficking-396213311.html?_osource=SocialFlowFB_DCBrand
It's also interesting that this case is being brought under California law, not federal. Makes you think they must have had concerns they wouldn't be able to make Fed charges stick. Since BP's activities cross over state and national borders, I have a hard time believing the Feds wouldn't want a piece of this if they thought it had a decent chance of success. Just the sheer amount of fines and forfeiture they could get out of BP's worldwide operations would seem to make it worth it.My guess is that the expansive list of charges is an effort to obtain BP's records and server information. Making the charge of pimping (and child pimping) stick will be an uphill battle for the California authorities, so there might be thoughts of plea bargaining. I truly hope the BP execs win this big time or, better, that an impartial judge throws the case out of court with prejudice.
A couple additional thoughts and observations:
(1) Had this been a federal case, it would likely have subordinated the California case until completion or resolution of the federal case. Trying the matter under California law first will still enable the feds to come in at a later point and, of course, bring all of its resources to bear on the defendants. (The effect if this is greater financial hardship for the defendants.)
(2) The fact that the case was brought under California law, rather than federal law, suggests some behind-the-scenes coordination between the Feds and the California authorities.
(3) As JmSuttr has already suggested, don't discount the money angle of this action.
(4) Even if the California action, and any subsequent federal action, is ultimately unsuccessful, there is probably the hope or expectation of putting a crimp in BP's operations, temporarily or permanently.
(5) Like LEO "street sweep" actions to round up prostitutes and clean up an existing stroll, this action (if successful) will simply cause BP operations to move outside the country.
(6) This is the action of a lazy and/or incompetent AG and authorities, who cannot seem to put a crimp in the source of under-age or "trafficked" individuals. (There is a way to clamp down on trafficking, but that involves better border enforcement, something the current administration and even California are none to keen about.)
Miketastic69
10-07-16, 09:35
My guess is that the expansive list of charges is an effort to obtain BP's records and server information. Making the charge of pimping (and child pimping) stick will be an uphill battle for the California authorities, so there might be thoughts of plea bargaining. I truly hope the BP execs win this big time or, better, that an impartial judge throws the case out of court with prejudice.
A couple additional thoughts and observations:
(1) Had this been a federal case, it would likely have subordinated the California case until completion or resolution of the federal case. Trying the matter under California law first will still enable the feds to come in at a later point and, of course, bring all of its resources to bear on the defendants. (The effect if this is greater financial hardship for the defendants.)
(2) The fact that the case was brought under California law, rather than federal law, suggests some behind-the-scenes coordination between the Feds and the California authorities.
(3) As JmSuttr has already suggested, don't discount the money angle of this action.
(4) Even if the California action, and any subsequent federal action, is ultimately unsuccessful, there is probably the hope or expectation of putting a crimp in BP's operations, temporarily or permanently.
(5) Like LEO "street sweep" actions to round up prostitutes and clean up an existing stroll, this action (if successful) will simply cause BP operations to move outside the country.
(6) This is the action of a lazy and/or incompetent AG and authorities, who cannot seem to put a crimp in the source of under-age or "trafficked" individuals. (There is a way to clamp down on trafficking, but that involves better border enforcement, something the current administration and even California are none to keen about.)
Feds go after cases they expect to win, and when they have the evidence to support a conviction. They do not want to tarnish their 90+ percent conviction rate and lose the confidence of the masses. What I could see the Feds possibly doing is going after the company itself and not individuals.
Feds go after cases they expect to win, and when they have the evidence to support a conviction. They do not want to tarnish their 90+ percent conviction rate and lose the confidence of the masses. What I could see the Feds possibly doing is going after the company itself and not individuals.The courts have already decided that the owners of a forum are not responsible for what gets posted on the forum. Rather, it is the responsibility of the person who posted it.
It sounds like Backpage has plenty of money to defend these type of cases. The cost of defending themselves from lawsuits should be baked into their business plan. If it is not, they need to rewrite their business plan. Defending free speech is not cheap.
Perhaps Backpage could do a better job in enforcing their rules. Currently, they just ask their users / viewers to "Please report the suspected sexual exploitation of minors and / or human trafficking to the appropriate authorities" and to email abuse@backpage.com. Perhaps they could do more to clean up "Inappropriate or Illegal Content". But, it is up the the prosecutors to prove that Backpage is willfully negligent.
The courts have already decided that the owners of a forum are not responsible for what gets posted on the forum. Rather, it is the responsibility of the person who posted it.
It sounds like Backpage has plenty of money to defend these type of cases. The cost of defending themselves from lawsuits should be baked into their business plan. If it is not, they need to rewrite their business plan. Defending free speech is not cheap.
Perhaps Backpage could do a better job in enforcing their rules. Currently, they just ask their users / viewers to "Please report the suspected sexual exploitation of minors and / or human trafficking to the appropriate authorities" and to email abuse@backpage.com. Perhaps they could do more to clean up "Inappropriate or Illegal Content". But, it is up the the prosecutors to prove that Backpage is willfully negligent.https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/can-prosecutors-stop-child-sex-trafficking-without-breaking-the-internet
Good explanation about how the Communications Decency Act applies and also about past and current cases. Pretty even-handed info, IMHO, and lays out a pretty good argument for why BP may win.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-16/can-prosecutors-stop-child-sex-trafficking-without-breaking-the-internet
Good explanation about how the Communications Decency Act applies and also about past and current cases. Pretty even-handed info, IMHO, and lays out a pretty good argument for why BP may win.http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BACKPAGE_SEX_TRAFFICKING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-11-16-13-52-57
Judicial (preliminary) ruling favoring BP.
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_BACKPAGE_SEX_TRAFFICKING?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2016-11-16-13-52-57
Judicial (preliminary) ruling favoring BP.I find this story encouraging, but the judge agreed to give California's attorney general more time to make her case. I hope he tells her to go take a hike.
If the judge upholds his initial ruling, I have to wonder if the attorney general will seek to change federal law once she moves to the United States Senate. She won last week's election.
I find this story encouraging, but the judge agreed to give California's attorney general more time to make her case. I hope he tells her to go take a hike.
If the judge upholds his initial ruling, I have to wonder if the attorney general will seek to change federal law once she moves to the United States Senate. She won last week's election.In some court cases the judge makes a ruling where the issues raised are a bit of a surprise and may not have been fully discussed or argued. But in this case it's always been clear that the Communications Decency Act was going to be the centerpiece of BP's defense. While I haven't read all of the documents in the case, I'd be very surprised if the AG hasn't already thrown her best arguments out there. And if those didn't persuade the judge, I doubt repackaging and recycling them is going to make any difference. For the sake of fairness the judge will give them a chance to respond but, IMHO, their case is on life support and it's only a matter of time before the plug is pulled.
As for her election to the Senate, she'll have even less influence as a single junior senator than she did as AG of CA. And, while nobody was willing to specifically defend BP, changing a federal law that protects companies like Google and FB will most likely turn out to be a pretty fruitless endeavor.
FWIW, my prediction is that the judge will rule in favor of BP and against CA. And, if a state as big and powerful as CA can't get it done, my guess is other authorities will back off. And if BP is smart, they'll learn some lessons from this and make even more adjustments to their ad reporting and review process to avoid anything that could possibly be related to trafficking.
Backrub321
12-05-16, 07:58
From the PWC website. Security cam pics on the website (in case you ever wondered how good they are).
Abduction.
Assault & Battery – On December 4th at 3:06 PM, officers responded to ZY Massage located at 2578 Dynasty Loop in Woodbridge (22193) to investigate an assault. The victim, later identified as a 44 year-old-woman of Woodbridge, reported to police that at approximately 10:00 AM that day, an unknown man entered the business and asked to use the restroom. While the subject was exiting the business, he requested a hug from the victim which was declined. The subject then left the store but returned after a short period of time. When the subject reentered the business, he locked the door with the victim inside, preventing her from leaving. A struggled ensued between the two and the subject assaulted the victim, causing minor injuries. The victim was able to break free from the subject and ran from the business. The subject also exited the business and was last seen on foot walking towards Telegraph Rd. The investigation continues and more information will be released once it is made available. Anyone with information about this incident is asked to call police at 703-792-6500.
The suspect is described as a Black male, 23-27 years of age, 6'0', and 180 lbs. He also has dark hair with a dark colored unshaven beard and mustache. He was last seen wearing blue jeans with a skull on the back right pocket, a black shirt with "Blackwatch" written on the front, a gray New York Yankees hat, and dark colored shoes.
Very clear photos have led to identification of the guy, though he hasn't been located and arrested the last I heard.
From the PWC website. Security cam pics on the website (in case you ever wondered how good they are).
Abduction.
Assault & Battery On December 4th at 3:06 PM, officers responded to ZY Massage located at 2578 Dynasty Loop in Woodbridge (22193) to investigate an assault. The victim, later identified as a 44 year-old-woman of Woodbridge, reported to police that at approximately 10:00 AM that day, an unknown man entered the business and asked to use the restroom. While the subject was exiting the business, he requested a hug from the victim which was declined. The subject then left the store but returned after a short period of time. When the subject reentered the business, he locked the door with the victim inside, preventing her from leaving. A struggled ensued between the two and the subject assaulted the victim, causing minor injuries. The victim was able to break free from the subject and ran from the business. The subject also exited the business and was last seen on foot walking towards Telegraph Rd. The investigation continues and more information will be released once it is made available. Anyone with information about this incident is asked to call police at 703-792-6500.
The suspect is described as a Black male, 23-27 years of age, 6'0', and 180 lbs. He also has dark hair with a dark colored unshaven beard and mustache. He was last seen wearing blue jeans with a skull on the back right pocket, a black shirt with "Blackwatch" written on the front, a gray New York Yankees hat, and dark colored shoes.
http://www.therecorder.com/id=1202774419462/Charges-Dismissed-in-Online-Brothel-Case-Against-Backpagecom-Execs?slreturn=20161110002908
While the state of CA can appeal the judgment, the higher court generally only looks at whether the trial judge made an error of law and they usually give the lower court the benefit of the doubt.
So, while it's not completely over, it's certainly not looking good for CA.
http://www.therecorder.com/id=1202774419462/Charges-Dismissed-in-Online-Brothel-Case-Against-Backpagecom-Execs?slreturn=20161110002908
While the state of CA can appeal the judgment, the higher court generally only looks at whether the trial judge made an error of law and they usually give the lower court the benefit of the doubt.
So, while it's not completely over, it's certainly not looking good for CA.This is good news, at least for now. I hope the United States Senate has better things to do than consider any changes to the Communications Decency Act which may be proposed by Senator-elect Kamala Harris once she take office next month.
This is good news, at least for now. I hope the United States Senate has better things to do than consider any changes to the Communications Decency Act which may be proposed by Senator-elect Kamala Harris once she take office next month.As the AG of CA, she was a legitimate big fish. As a junior senator of the minority party, without any committee chairmanships or seniority, her power is greatly diminished (if not almost nonexistent).
She can propose changes but those would have to get through a hostile committee and general Senate environment. And not only is she facing an uphill battle on those fronts but all the internet businesses (Google, Facebook, etc.) who would feel threatened by a harsher CDA would be actively working against her.
Of course it's not finally over yet, but she's shot her best wad and the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
Miketastic69
12-10-16, 17:40
As the AG of CA, she was a legitimate big fish. As a junior senator of the minority party, without any committee chairmanships or seniority, her power is greatly diminished (if not almost nonexistent).
She can propose changes but those would have to get through a hostile committee and general Senate environment. And not only is she facing an uphill battle on those fronts but all the internet businesses (Google, Facebook, etc.) who would feel threatened by a harsher CDA would be actively working against her.
Of course it's not finally over yet, but she's shot her best wad and the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.No one is going to listen to valley girl kamala.
RustyMuffler
12-14-16, 13:12
Ms. Harris got kicked upstairs. Bigger paycheck, more prestige, better pension, but virtually ZERO real power. Nothing gets done in the Senate that Mr. McConnell does not support / allow.
About all she can do in her new role is make speeches from her desk on the Senate floor. She has been neutered. Or I guess in her case, spayed.
On a more personal note, she will have more people around her to kiss her ass and stroke her ego. But it is ironic that as a senator she actually has less raw power than before. (BTW, that is why you see senators who have any sense leave DC to go home and run for governor instead.).
Fun times.
As the AG of CA, she was a legitimate big fish. As a junior senator of the minority party, without any committee chairmanships or seniority, her power is greatly diminished (if not almost nonexistent).
She can propose changes but those would have to get through a hostile committee and general Senate environment. And not only is she facing an uphill battle on those fronts but all the internet businesses (Google, Facebook, etc.) who would feel threatened by a harsher CDA would be actively working against her.
Of course it's not finally over yet, but she's shot her best wad and the window of opportunity is rapidly closing.
Not sure if you have seen this or not. -.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/12/13/12-more-charges-in-trb-prostitution-case
Miketastic69
12-14-16, 21:47
Not sure if you have seen this or not. -.
http://reason.com/blog/2016/12/13/12-more-charges-in-trb-prostitution-caseHow are they catching these so called criminals? Are they getting real email addresses and phone numbers? How could they prove that any of them actually ever saw any of the women? I think Pamela Anderson is a fine ass ***** and is worth every penny if she was out there providing. Does that statement mean that I am promoting prostitution and human trafficking? No way. In criminal law there is a term called Mens Rea, which means criminal intent. How can the defense lawyers allow this to go on? I see online comments everyday where one group hates and wants to kill another (whether it race, politics, or religion). So, how can my comments about a fine ass woman be prosecuted more quickly than someone who wants to kill me because I'm white, or black or jewish? I just don't understand how this is happening and it seems to fail the legality 101 test:
1. Criminal intent.
2. Act (or conspiracy).
3. Proof.
I'm probably missing a lot of other tests, but I am guessing the success for them comes from guys pleading out rather than face public trial. If someone does go to trial and it gets fully into the State Court System, a lot of these "wins" will be overturned and someone will end up with egg on their face.
Looks like it is blocked for the time being.
Looks like it is blocked for the time being.http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/09/backpage-shutters-u-s-escort-ads-after-senate-report/
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/report-child-sex-ads-pushed-through-backpage-com/S4YvjMPv19wODPuCzE3SoI/
The way I read these articles, BP isn't actually being blocked by the govt but rather it seems like this is their way of protesting against a report coming out of the US Senate as well as ongoing hearings.
Maybe they're trying to make an impact by temporarily shutting down all the adult ads? If that's the case, not sure how long this "ad strike" will continue. One thing's for sure, all the philandering politicians on Capitol Hill will have to find another source for their pussy!
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-backpage-shutdown-20170109-story.html
Backpage shut down its adult section like Craigslist.
But it was deadman walking as most providers were moving to.
******.
Instagram.
Snapchat.
It's a new game out here.
RedBaron Daron
01-10-17, 21:08
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/09/backpage-shutters-u-s-escort-ads-after-senate-report/
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/report-child-sex-ads-pushed-through-backpage-com/S4YvjMPv19wODPuCzE3SoI/
The way I read these articles, BP isn't actually being blocked by the govt but rather it seems like this is their way of protesting against a report coming out of the US Senate as well as ongoing hearings.
Maybe they're trying to make an impact by temporarily shutting down all the adult ads? If that's the case, not sure how long this "ad strike" will continue. One thing's for sure, all the philandering politicians on Capitol Hill will have to find another source for their pussy!They may not be able to find answers to America's problems, but they can always find rented pussy.
Pbarber307
01-11-17, 01:41
The AMPs are advertising under Massage in the Services.
Section.
http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/09/backpage-shutters-u-s-escort-ads-after-senate-report/
http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/state--regional-govt--politics/report-child-sex-ads-pushed-through-backpage-com/S4YvjMPv19wODPuCzE3SoI/
The way I read these articles, BP isn't actually being blocked by the govt but rather it seems like this is their way of protesting against a report coming out of the US Senate as well as ongoing hearings.
Maybe they're trying to make an impact by temporarily shutting down all the adult ads? If that's the case, not sure how long this "ad strike" will continue. One thing's for sure, all the philandering politicians on Capitol Hill will have to find another source for their pussy!BP may have acted voluntarily, but for now the government censors have won. It remains to be seen if their victory is permanent.
Of course, this will also stop Uncle LEO from using BP to run sting operations targeting mongers. I wonder if the powers that be thought about that as they were gloating over the BP shutdown.
In case anyone is interested.
http://sharedhope.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/PSIReport.pdf
In case anyone is interested.
http://sharedhope.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/10/PSIReport.pdfSounds like the staff and the Committee did a lot of research on the job. They probably had fun doing it on Government time from their desks. Wonder how much field work they did?
I don't know how much human trafficking actually takes place, but my carpenter said all the girls he knows do the sex game because it is profitable, and an easy life and they enjoy it. Maybe there is a segment that he does not see or he is naive? He said most are more honest, down to earth and straight forward and have more integrity than his x-wife. Many are professional business persons. I certainly don't endorse any human trafficking, but he said there are a lot of nice gals he has met that it hurts no one, and it has helped him be a better person!
DC.
Black Coffee
01-13-17, 00:59
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/florida-woman-arrested-for-prostitution-undercover-sting/EN5vfOa4V0lOpiFnsMcO5N/
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/florida-woman-arrested-for-prostitution-undercover-sting/EN5vfOa4V0lOpiFnsMcO5N/In a few years she will be ready for NOVA.
I'm of the opinion that the BP adult section shutdown is a temporary protest and they will bring it back online at some point.
Of course I could be 100% wrong, but I'll throw it out there that my call for a restart would be somewhere during the weekend right after the prez inauguration (Jan 21 or 22).
Anybody else want to make a call on possible timing? Also, for those who think the shutdown is permanent, why do you think BP hasn't simply scrubbed all the adult categories completely off their site instead of leaving them on there, but with prominent "censored" markings?
Miketastic69
01-14-17, 22:22
I'm of the opinion that the BP adult section shutdown is a temporary protest and they will bring it back online at some point.
Of course I could be 100% wrong, but I'll throw it out there that my call for a restart would be somewhere during the weekend right after the prez inauguration (Jan 21 or 22).
Anybody else want to make a call on possible timing? Also, for those who think the shutdown is permanent, why do you think BP hasn't simply scrubbed all the adult categories completely off their site instead of leaving them on there, but with prominent "censored" markings?Last weekend of the month or first of February. No later than Groundhog Day. I don't want my dick to see its shadow and crawl back in for another 6 weeks.
Miketastic69
01-14-17, 22:24
In a few years she will be ready for NOVA.Nova mongers will still pay her top notch for a standard nova.
RustyMuffler
01-16-17, 12:34
So 70 must be the new 50! Ha!!
Honestly, I would not walk out on her if she came in to the room to be my "girl. " She probably has a few tricks up her sleeve that the young gals don't know about yet. And besides, Asians usually look younger than their years. Especially in a low, dimly lit room. As long as she has nice hands.
Now if it is full service, that might be a different story. I wonder if she is still up for asian cowgirl? Maybe after a knee replacement. And she would have to buy lube by the barrel! Ha Ha!!
In a few years she will be ready for NOVA.
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/news/crime--law/florida-woman-arrested-for-prostitution-undercover-sting/EN5vfOa4V0lOpiFnsMcO5N/
Nova mongers will still pay her top notch for a standard nova.Ha Ha. That is very funny, but absolutely true.
Propilot-Always check your six.
Big Jizzle
01-23-17, 12:49
Last weekend of the month or first of February. No later than Groundhog Day. I don't want my dick to see its shadow and crawl back in for another 6 weeks.It seems like most of the girls have migrated to the women seeking men section of Backpage. But it will be interesting to see how long Backpage's self imposed exile lasts.
Bostonpeter
01-24-17, 13:44
It seems like most of the girls have migrated to the women seeking men section of Backpage. But it will be interesting to see how long Backpage's self imposed exile lasts.Personally, I think BP should keep the ban. From a legal perspective, it gives them, and anyone of advertises, plausible deniability if all parties are just 'dating' as 'adult services' explicitly banned. It also gives officials a reason to claim victory, I think everyone knows that regardless of who they shut down other advertising services will merely pop up. From a pragmatic perspective its business as usual, but being a little more 'out of sight, out of mind' about it is in everyone's interests.
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:s7310zqL
I don't have any special insights into the political environment in Hawaii, but this is interesting even if only to add to the dialogue and debate about decriminalization and legalization. It would be nice to have Hawaii join Nevada as a state that doesn't penalize consensual adult activity.
Alvorado87
02-05-17, 03:46
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:s7310zqL
I don't have any special insights into the political environment in Hawaii, but this is interesting even if only to add to the dialogue and debate about decriminalization and legalization. It would be nice to have Hawaii join Nevada as a state that doesn't penalize consensual adult activity.https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154475470211379&id=66874361378 (Khon).
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10154120285561861&id=61865376860 (Kitv).
The comments are livid on the Khon2 and KITV4 facebook post. Many locals and transplants saying let's legalize marijuana and gambling first (they forgot to mention that Kamehameha was a polygamist yet they wear their defend Hawaii crap shirts). Aren't those two things just as bad if one gets addicted? Personally, I wouldn't take a street-ho considering the diseases she may have already been contaminated with. However, the point of the legislation is to decriminalize consensual acts between two consenting adults yet opponents (mostly feminist-conservative females and cuckold men) on the facebook posts kept spouting the typical bullshit of trafficking and being coerced into the job. Trafficking is real but that's an entirely different issue when this is about the ethics of making a simple transaction between both parties (matured individuals) who consent to a particular activity that harms no one outside legal. Also to those who say this will lead to increased adultery, I respond with my thoughts that if a man is truly faithful to his wife, he wouldn't fail the test of temptation when it's readily accessible near him and this would be a great experiment to determine your man's honor. That's why I'm currently MGTOW and enjoying freedom without the matrimony bee-ess. Aloha.
SexsSarved9141
02-05-17, 13:20
http://m.hawaiinewsnow.com/hawaiinewsnow/pm_/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=od:s7310zqL
I don't have any special insights into the political environment in Hawaii, but this is interesting even if only to add to the dialogue and debate about decriminalization and legalization. It would be nice to have Hawaii join Nevada as a state that doesn't penalize consensual adult activity.As someone from Hawaii who has partook in some mongering there, this is interesting and probably not going to happen. There is still a lot of open anti-trafficking campaigns going on and I respect that. However, depending on the language of the bill, it probably won't pass. It's an open secret about the AMPs and several were busted before. News stories covered the conditions but although the first shops were closed, they would reopen a month later. The public pressure is real though but it just means that the parlors will work on the thin line they're on.
The question is really whether the mama-sans who manage the places are respectful of the women they have and how much the PD in HI can worry about it (which isn't a lot considering the chief there is about to get fired, the department doesn't have enough funds for his 250 K pension, and they generally have bigger concerns than the AMPs). I support the legislation as a means to maybe help them get future assistance by the state for STD tests, etc. It also won't go the other way either because many are there by choice and love what they do. The ladies are beautiful, kind, and would be appreciative to use funds to do other stuff.
For good service, my go to's are Rejuve and Happiness. The providers there are there because they want to and the mama-sans take care of their people. So long as everyone is happy and healthy, I do not see a problem.
Informative. I knew some of it but definitely not all.
http://www.citylab.com/crime/2017/02/cellphone-spy-tools-have-flooded-local-police-departments/512543/
Informative. I knew some of it but definitely not all.
http://www.citylab.com/crime/2017/02/cellphone-spy-tools-have-flooded-local-police-departments/512543/Thanks, Jim. This is deeply disturbing. What happened to the Fourth Amendment? And why do local police departments need such equipment?
This article provides another reason to use burner phones and change them frequently.
Miketastic69
02-27-17, 01:52
As someone from Hawaii who has partook in some mongering there, this is interesting and probably not going to happen. There is still a lot of open anti-trafficking campaigns going on and I respect that. However, depending on the language of the bill, it probably won't pass. It's an open secret about the AMPs and several were busted before. News stories covered the conditions but although the first shops were closed, they would reopen a month later. The public pressure is real though but it just means that the parlors will work on the thin line they're on.
The question is really whether the mama-sans who manage the places are respectful of the women they have and how much the PD in HI can worry about it (which isn't a lot considering the chief there is about to get fired, the department doesn't have enough funds for his 250 K pension, and they generally have bigger concerns than the AMPs). I support the legislation as a means to maybe help them get future assistance by the state for STD tests, etc. It also won't go the other way either because many are there by choice and love what they do. The ladies are beautiful, kind, and would be appreciative to use funds to do other stuff.
For good service, my go to's are Rejuve and Happiness. The providers there are there because they want to and the mama-sans take care of their people. So long as everyone is happy and healthy, I do not see a problem.Each time I'm there, there is talk about legalization of prostitution. Heck, on Kalakaua Bl prostitutes walk around right in front of cops and rarely get bothered. Hell, Century Center Plaza is about a dozen floors of AMPs. Reminds me of the FKK Clubs in Germany and Amsterdam. Oh what tax revenue the islands could generate by taxing prostituion.
NoVa Ranger
03-01-17, 00:19
Each time I'm there, there is talk about legalization of prostitution. Heck, on Kalakaua Bl prostitutes walk around right in front of cops and rarely get bothered. Hell, Century Center Plaza is about a dozen floors of AMPs. Reminds me of the FKK Clubs in Germany and Amsterdam. Oh what tax revenue the islands could generate by taxing prostituion.Been there -- liked it! Joy was her name -- and she was true to her name.
Be nice to the Ladies.
NR.
Miketastic69
03-23-17, 12:29
Been there -- liked it! Joy was her name -- and she was true to her name.
Be nice to the Ladies.
NR.I will be visiting a client in Honolulu first week or so of April. La femme nu and Century Plaza will see me every night I'm there! Reminds me, I need to stop by iNova clinic and get a new script for viagra!
Mpduration
05-11-17, 21:35
https://sites.google.com/site/beefeater500/fairfax-county-virginia-prostitution-incident-blotter
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/1256818/sex-traffickers-took-hundreds-from-thailand-to-us
Having seen ladies from most of the different Thai groups in the area, I'm pretty sure some are being trafficked. But most are not.
All the more reason to stick with the trusted "A" group of Kk, Tara, Nikki, Patty, and their friends.
http://www.bangkokpost.com/news/world/1256818/sex-traffickers-took-hundreds-from-thailand-to-us
Having seen ladies from most of the different Thai groups in the area, I'm pretty sure some are being trafficked. But most are not.
All the more reason to stick with the trusted "A" group of Kk, Tara, Nikki, Patty, and their friends.I'm no longer hobbying, but I'll still comment from time to time on news coverage and related topics.
This report disturbs me. Having said that, I'm also quite aware that the term "trafficking" is frequently used even when being applied incorrectly or inappropriately.
Those who are still active should carefully do their homework to be sure they're seeing consenting providers who aren't in the business against their will.
Bossanova86
07-01-17, 13:57
http://wjla.com/news/local/police-masseur-arrested-for-sexual-battery-and-unlawful-massage-in-fairfax
FAIRFAX, Va. (ABC7) — Police say a masseur working at Massage Green Spa in Fairfax City has been arrested and charged with sexual battery and unlawful massage.
A 40-year-old woman told police the man engaged in "extensive unwanted touching" and related actions during a massage on May 25.
Following an investigation, police arrested and charged Anhua Cao, 38, of Fairfax on June 28.
He is being held without bond.
And this time, they're working for the larger of the two local daily bird-cage liners, ahem, newspapers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/backpage-has-always-claimed-it-doesnt-control-sex-related-ads-new-documents-show-otherwise/2017/07/10/b3158ef6-553c-11e7-b38e-35fd8e0c288f_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_backpage-8am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.06261b9a4b1c
And this time, they're working for the larger of the two local daily bird-cage liners, ahem, newspapers.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/backpage-has-always-claimed-it-doesnt-control-sex-related-ads-new-documents-show-otherwise/2017/07/10/b3158ef6-553c-11e7-b38e-35fd8e0c288f_story.html?hpid=hp_rhp-top-table-main_backpage-8am%3Ahomepage%2Fstory&utm_term=.06261b9a4b1cThe ironically named Tom Jackman has been on this beat awhile. Google his name and "massage."
The ironically named Tom Jackman has been on this beat awhile. Google his name and "massage."Thanks for the info. It seems he has an agenda like too many other of today's reporters.
FunTimes6969
07-15-17, 21:05
Thought I'd give you guys a heads up on something you might be interested in.
http://nova.backpage.com/WomenSeekMen/authentic-upscale-young-sultry-blonde-here-eager-to-play/32228773
www.provider.pics/925-727-4622/
Pictures are fake, but kind of look like her a little? She's definitely chubby (which I normally don't like) but I thought she was surprisingly cute and a natural chest to die for. Advertises as 19, might be accurate but looks early 20's to me. Now the downside, in convo she said she was full GFE. In person not so much. She said no kissing, no BBBJ. Despite the urge to stay I decided to leave. So if you're not looking for GFE and like thick young white girls might be for you. I would be hesitant since she blatantly lied about her services though.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/forced-work-sex-slave-new-york/
If the information in this article is accurate, this is an example of a real trafficking situation. The victim was reportedly recruited by an employment agency in her home country and promised legit employment in the US. Once she arrived, she said she was sold for sex work and kept under control by means of coercion, intimidation and force (until she escaped). I thought it was worth posting as an example of the real deal since the media constantly tries to portray every part of the hobby as "trafficking" even when it involves consenting adults making free choices.
Articles are a bit long but have good info, especially about how "rescued victims" are treated.
http://reason.com/archives/2017/03/14/american-sex-police
http://reason.com/blog/2017/10/18/fbi-operation-cross-country-xi
In too many instances, "anti-trafficking" campaigns are nothing more than a way to guarantee a continual stream of funding for local / state / federal agencies. The stated goal of helping victimized women is often secondary and, in some cases, a complete illusion.
http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Appeals-court-in-SF-allows-challenge-to-state-law-12292093.php#4.
http://m.sfgate.com/news/article/Appeals-court-in-SF-allows-challenge-to-state-law-12292093.php#4.I think there is a similar bill in DC.
I think there is a similar bill in DC.Yes, but one big difference is that even if the bill in DC passes the City Council and Mayor, the Fed govt still has the final say on DC legislation. I could be wrong but I don't see that happening during the current administration.
The CA situation is a Federal court case challenging the law by saying that it violates the rights of consenting adults. If it keeps going on this path then it could even end in the Supreme Court. And, since we already have one state where prostitution is legal (NV) it'll be interesting to see how that turns out, if it makes it that far.
Yes, but one big difference is that even if the bill in DC passes the City Council and Mayor, the Fed govt still has the final say on DC legislation. I could be wrong but I don't see that happening during the current administration.
The CA situation is a Federal court case challenging the law by saying that it violates the rights of consenting adults. If it keeps going on this path then it could even end in the Supreme Court. And, since we already have one state where prostitution is legal (NV) it'll be interesting to see how that turns out, if it makes it that far.Prostitution is legal in Nevada, but only in certain mostly rural counties. It remains illegal in Clark County, where Las Vegas in located.
This court case is worth following. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was a California case which eventually triggered the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage.
Prostitution is legal in Nevada, but only in certain mostly rural counties. It remains illegal in Clark County, where Las Vegas in located.
This court case is worth following. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe it was a California case which eventually triggered the Supreme Court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage.Right, NV legalized it but regulates it so it's restricted to certain areas and excludes it from the most populated counties, like Clark and Washoe. But, however that process played out, I don't think it addressed the specific legal questions raised in the CA case.
What's most interesting in the CA case is the argument that it's the basic right of every adult to engage in consensual sexual conduct without government interference. Following that train of thought, why then should it be illegal for consenting adults to exchange something of value while engaging in that basic right?
The other side of the argument is that the state has a compelling interest in keeping prostitution illegal. I'm sure they'll bring up trafficking, drug use, and other such reasons in trying to defend the status quo. But stacked against that is the fact that there are ways to legalize it, such as the NV example, so that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. And if the Federal court agrees that a basic right is being violated, it could issue an order that invalidates most of the prostitution laws in CA. And if that happens it's only a matter of time before it spreads to other states.
Of course, there are lots of moving parts because Congress, the Supreme Court, and even the President could get involved. Lots of moving parts but at least we're having the conversation. And there are plenty of models in Western Europe and elsewhere that demonstrate that there are ways to successfully legalize or decriminalize.
BuckshotWatson
10-24-17, 09:10
"a new study provides strong evidence that when law enforcement closes down sites like Craigslist or Redbook, women die. ".
https://thinkprogress.org/craigslist-erotic-services-platform-3eab46092717/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link&ICID=ref_fark
http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/01/fake-human-trafficking-busts-by-dhs
I firmly believe that many in LE would rather devote their scarce resources to going after more serious threats to life and property. But, as long as there are state and federal programs and grants that shovel $ to local departments, and as long as there are elected sheriffs and mayors who need to pander to voters, nothing will change.
To paraphrase a common saying: If the preferred tool is an "anti-trafficking" hammer then it's helpful to make every problem look like a "trafficking" nail.
http://reason.com/blog/2017/11/01/fake-human-trafficking-busts-by-dhs
I firmly believe that many in LE would rather devote their scarce resources to going after more serious threats to life and property. But, as long as there are state and federal programs and grants that shovel $ to local departments, and as long as there are elected sheriffs and mayors who need to pander to voters, nothing will change.
To paraphrase a common saying: If the preferred tool is an "anti-trafficking" hammer then it's helpful to make every problem look like a "trafficking" nail.Good point, JmSuttr.
I have no desire to see providers who are being held and trafficked against their will. However, I haven't found that to be the case during most of the years I've spent mongering. Perhaps there were a few streetwalkers I saw during my early days of mongering who were being pimped, but getting mugged a couple of times and having my car broken into quickly cured me of picking up streetwalkers in that city.
If there's evidence of actual human trafficking, I'm all for authorities cracking down on such behavior. However, I'm sick and tired of do-gooders on both sides of the aisle criminalizing consenting adults behavior which involves an exchange of money.
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/everett-man-was-shot-in-the-head-left-for-dead-for-3-days/
https://www.heraldnet.com/news/everett-man-was-shot-in-the-head-left-for-dead-for-3-days/Now you know why I don't do outcall, even if I happen to be home alone.
RustyMuffler
11-13-17, 10:59
I saw this posted on one of the Maryland boards:
https://nypost.com/2017/11/11/sex-worker-with-over-10000-partners-reveals-what-men-really-want/
Sex worker with over 10 K partners reveals what men really want.
By The Sun.
November 11,2017*.
*1:19 pm*.
*Updated.
A former prostitute who has slept over 10,000 men has answered the golden questions that many women ask – including "what do men REALLY want from sex?
Gwyneth Montenegro, 39, from Australia, spent 12 years in the industry and has now written a book revealing the surprising things that men will pay for.
In her book, on "being financially successful in the sex industry", she said "most gentlemen don't always go for the kinky services. ".
In fact, in the decade she was in the industry, the most important thing to her clients was "feeling of being needed and wanted. Wanted badly by a horny woman. It is their ultimate fantasy after all. ".
She said that it is vital, therefore that whatever sex acts you are doing, "you make look like you want him bad and are enjoying him so much (even if you aren't). ".
Gwyneth said that many girls in the industry try to "outdo" other women with the acts or techniques they use, but this is to be avoided.
She said: "Don't try and keep up with, or outdo anyone else, or this can backfire. You only want to work within your boundaries.
"They are regular everyday men who just want some fun, and they want to know that you are having fun too. ".
One of the biggest questions that she found girls asking was whether or not a getting bigger boobs would be beneficial.
Thankfully the former prostitute revealed most men prefer the feel of real boobs and there is a market for every body type.
She wrote: "If you've got them, there's a market. If you don't, there's a market too. I wouldn't lose too much sleep over it.
"A little-known secret in the punting world, is that there are quite a lot of men who will actively seek out escorts who are not the hottest of the hot women and go for someone who isn't as classically beautiful, because they feel shy and sometimes a little inadequate themselves.
"You don't have to be the hottest femme fatale, but as long as you are well groomed, comfortable and confident in your own skin, have a great vibe, energetic and you are professional. Then this is what it takes.
"There are many, many different women of all shapes, ages, sizes and backgrounds than you can think of making money from their body. ".
Gwyneth said that one of the biggest myths is that men only want younger women.
But in her experience, women can be successful at any age, and she has witnessed escorts in their 30's, 40's, 50's and 60's earning good sums of money.
She even heard of one escort who started working at the age of 83, and carried on for four years charging £250 an hour.
In fact, many men want a genuine conversation and connection – something they might not get with girls the same age as their daughters.
She said: "Talking to one of my amazing male friends, who is in his early 50's, he said 'Well that makes sense. Can you see me wanting to book a 22-year-old? If I wanted to have some conversation and connection and to feel like I was getting the attention I wanted, do you think a 22-year-old would necessarily give me that kind of service?
And getting men excited about bedroom action often has little to do with skimpy outfits out in public.
When it comes to the clothes you wear, she said: "You don't have to have 'it all hanging out' to make money in this business".
She said that men like a bit of mystery and would rather pay for something that other men don't always get to see.
She said: "You don't have to **** yourself out in how you dress, to get the attention of the men. ".
Gwyneth revealed she had written the guide to empower women thinking of entering the industry and to teach them how to survive.
She said: "In my line of work I am approached by practicing escorts almost weekly and the trend is alarming. More and more reveal that they are disheartened, bitter, broken and financially struggling. They are desperate.
"How could I sit back and stay quiet, when I know how it's done? With my much talked about 10,091 encounters behind me I don't need the knowledge any more, so I passed it on. ".
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/innovations/wp/2018/01/15/big-brother-on-wheels-why-your-car-company-may-know-more-about-you-than-your-spouse/?utm_term=.7fd06af678c8
WTF? Any data that is collected and stored can ultimately be subpoenaed by LEO or disclosed by the order of a divorce court judge. And, because they'll have a signed "consent" on the lease or purchase papers, good luck to anyone trying to keep their info private.
Seems to me that this is a great business opportunity for aftermarket solutions to block this kind of BS. Hmmm, wonder what the vehicular equivalent of a burner phone is?
Seems to me that this is a great business opportunity for aftermarket solutions to block this kind of BS. Hmmm, wonder what the vehicular equivalent of a burner phone is?For now, I guess it would be driving an old car not equipped with such modern data collection technology.
That's some pretty scary stuff, and not just with regard to the hobby. Thanks for sharing this article.
Although Richmond's police chief sought the legislation, I understand this bill applies statewide. Each locality would have to adopt a local ordinance if it wants to use the powers granted by the new law, assuming of course that the governor signs the bill. Since the law passed unanimously in both houses of the General Assembly, I doubt he'll veto the legislation.
http://www.richmond.com/news/local/city-of-richmond/general-assembly-gives-richmond-new-tool-to-crack-down-on/article_4b41aee1-f956-57a9-a689-f932bb51d71d.html
FunTimes6969
04-06-18, 15:43
Backpage.com has been shutdown it looks like. It's been fun guys.
Check the BP homepage for info.
WalterKovacs
04-06-18, 16:08
Check the BP homepage for info.Holy shit I just saw it.
WalterKovacs
04-06-18, 16:38
Check the BP homepage for info.The real question. Is this good or bad for mongers? Does this put the power back in the hands of mongers to bargain prices or does this drive prices up on providers end?
Check the BP homepage for info.Sites like this are next.
The section on CL that a lot of spas used to advertise is gone as well.
The real question. Is this good or bad for mongers? Does this put the power back in the hands of mongers to bargain prices or does this drive prices up on providers end?Short-term, I'd expect to see more business move toward sites that haven't been affected like Eros, etc. I also think AMPs will be busier and there may be a reappearance of SW traffic where there wasn't before. Long-term, something will fill the void as it always has. What that something is will depend on the marketplace. My guess is that BP had too much baggage and even their recent changes weren't enough to save them. What happens to them now will depend on the courts. Any new websites will have the advantage of knowing what LE is targeting and will be able to tailor their service accordingly.
As these disruptions play out, pricing will probably be volatile as individual providers and clients try to use the situation to their own advantage. A client who is desperate for a nut is going to overpay more than one who can maintain price discipline. And there will be some providers who will lower their prices if business drops off and they can't pay for their needs.
Interesting times. Stay tuned.
Looks like CL is also taking proactive steps to avoid the BP treatment.
WalterKovacs
04-06-18, 20:12
Looks like CL is also taking proactive steps to avoid the BP treatment.Saw this too.
Short-term, I'd expect to see more business move toward sites that haven't been affected like Eros, etc. I also think AMPs will be busier and there may be a reappearance of SW traffic where there wasn't before. Long-term, something will fill the void as it always has. What that something is will depend on the marketplace. My guess is that BP had too much baggage and even their recent changes weren't enough to save them. What happens to them now will depend on the courts. Any new websites will have the advantage of knowing what LE is targeting and will be able to tailor their service accordingly.
As these disruptions play out, pricing will probably be volatile as individual providers and clients try to use the situation to their own advantage. A client who is desperate for a nut is going to overpay more than one who can maintain price discipline. And there will be some providers who will lower their prices if business drops off and they can't pay for their needs.
Interesting times. Stay tuned.I say now is the time for gentlemen to collectively withhold to maintain order and put clients back in driver seat.
Full disclosure: I'm not a lawyer, although I did have a provider dress up as a legal secretary at a Holiday Inn Express last night (wink wink).
But, IIRC, the new FOSTA law hasn't been signed by the Prez so, whatever the Feds have on BP, they have it under existing law.
Since the notice on the website also lists the IRS and Postal Inspection Service, I'm guessing they dug up something related to tax evasion, alleged money laundering, or something related to the mail. Although the notice says more info will be released after 6 pm, I haven't seen any specifics and there's no press release yet from DOJ.
As always, the devil is in the details so we don't really know yet what legal issues are involved. But, whatever it is, it's not FOSTA-related because that hasn't taken effect yet.
With so many sites being shut down today the question is how do providers and their clients connect now? I don't know yet, but think that several members of this forum could contact some favorite providers and see what they plan to do now and share that info here. Any thoughts?
The Drudge Report had a link to the following article from Arizona:
http://www.azfamily.com/story/37898603/fbi-raids-sedona-home-of-backpagecom-founder-michael-lacey
So much for the First Amendment in the USA What next?
According to this site, the bill was presented to the president for his signature or veto this past Wednesday. He has yet to act. I hope he vetoes the bill and tells Congress where to stick it.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/1865
Interesting to read what actual workers are saying. Also, this is not geographic specific, so perspective from all over:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SexWorkers/
Interesting to read what actual workers are saying. Also, this is not geographic specific, so perspective from all over:
https://www.reddit.com/r/SexWorkers/Thanks for the Reddit link. Followed a link from one of the posts and found this helpful info:
https://gerzilla.de/channel/cat-gun/?f=&mid=f92758fc66f535978e0d879070a0b2bf32d3efd8eb5ed6c7149119eaa4dbafdf
Click the "expand" button at the bottom to see the entire post.
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