PDA

View Full Version : News and Media Reports



Pages : [1] 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22

Admin
12-31-99, 20:00
Thread Starter

Kamabokos
02-20-11, 01:19
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110219_hpd_major_indicted_in_gaming_extortion.html

I found the above story interesting relating to the Luxury Ocean post in the AMP thread.

Lahainawhaler
02-20-11, 02:12
Did some searches on massage busts in honolulu, and on KHNL's site was news about a raid above 350 Ward with news pics attached. Couldn't find the date stamp so I don't know if this was just last night. In reading that police and and feds build cases based on "compaints", I wonder if PASS and other groups pushing legislation are making mass complaints to all establishments so LE can officially proceed with investigations. It's sad, but having all these recent news of cops getting busted for bribes, drunk driving and so on, does get the publics attention to show "hypocrisy" about singling out on establishments and private activity among adults and lumping them in with those who exploit children or force females to work against their will. Those are the real ones to go after.

Lahainawhaler for Governor 2014?

Hornyhaole
02-20-11, 02:47
In reading that police and and feds build cases based on "compaints", I wonder if PASS and other groups pushing legislation are making mass complaints to all establishments so LE can officially proceed with investigations.That would make sense as this is how various online groups have organized to mass-flag CL postings in the past. The Internet has removed the barrier to entry for all the casual witch hunters out there. Welcome to the era of tyranny by majority.


Lahainawhaler for Governor 2014?Depends on what promise to put in every pot.

Tsunami69
02-20-11, 04:30
Did some searches on massage busts in honolulu, and on KHNL's site was news about a raid above 350 Ward with news pics attached. Couldn't find the date stamp so I don't know if this was just last night. In reading that police and and feds build cases based on "compaints", I wonder if PASS and other groups pushing legislation are making mass complaints to all establishments so LE can officially proceed with investigations. It's sad, but having all these recent news of cops getting busted for bribes, drunk driving and so on, does get the publics attention to show "hypocrisy" about singling out on establishments and private activity among adults and lumping them in with those who exploit children or force females to work against their will. Those are the real ones to go after.

Lahainawhaler for Governor 2014? The GQ bust (s) are from several years ago.

H Mobius
02-20-11, 04:54
There was a discussion some time ago about a Korean MT (Michelle?) looking like Carole Kai ("Carole Kai lookalike"). Tonight I caught part of a video on the news at the Blaisdell Exhibition Hall, and she came on camera. Whoa! She looked pretty wild with eyes glaring and hair pigtailed left and right. I guess she looks young for someone who must be in her 60's by now, but I was surprised and the "lookalike" discussion came to mind; no way she looks like Michelle now.

Makana9
02-20-11, 11:29
There was a discussion some time ago about a Korean MT (Michelle?) looking like Carole Kai ("Carole Kai lookalike"). Tonight I caught part of a video on the news at the Blaisdell Exhibition Hall, and she came on camera. Whoa! She looked pretty wild with eyes glaring and hair pigtailed left and right. I guess she looks young for someone who must be in her 60's by now, but I was surprised and the "lookalike" discussion came to mind; no way she looks like Michelle now.CK was a classmate of my dad, and family friend. & yupps, I remember being at a party when I was a frosh in HS and she was pretty HOT, while getting much of the attention from the males there including my dad. That is when I got my 1st taste of the look and personality, so a few GF during my HS yrs. Kind of looked like CKai. With the smile, big hair, and tight bod. She is in her later 60s, but hey, still lookin pretty good.

Puinsai808
03-04-11, 12:26
http://www.kitv.com/week-in-review/27062038/detail.html

News crews may be out taping. You don't want to be the car on the news pulling over talking to the SWs!

It's a long article but a lot of good information.

Sancho2063
03-04-11, 15:36
http://www.kitv.com/week-in-review/27062038/detail.html

News crews may be out taping. You don't want to be the car on the news pulling over talking to the SWs!

It's a long article but a lot of good information.Mahalo Bruddah P.

I had a good laugh watching the video. It was interesting to hear Keoki Kerr talk about the prices getting cheaper near Aala park. I basically just go window shopping through there but I wouldn't want to get a Geographical Restriction because Angela and Mina live in that area.

Member #4472
03-04-11, 21:37
Either that, or she's just done too much drugs and her brain is all fried. Talking about Paige. Gave Keoki Kerr her real name. Can't believe it. And she gets around with a cane and walker. She has officially bottomed out. She tells everyone that she got a virus and got crippled. King Kong size BS! True story is that her bf Moe beat the crap out of her to the point that she was camatose. Was eating at zippys vineyard one evening and an ambulance guy told us the whole story. Two other gals that know her well said the same thing. One who is a really good friend of hers said that her bf's mother took her in for awhile so she wouldn't press charges and send him to jail. Now she looks like death walking around, and he is with her most of the time.

I don't like to put any body down, especially someone like her who is messed up already, but we got to be honest and tell the fellow mongers so we all know the real story.

I would not do her ever again, and I caution you not to either.

Blade82
03-04-11, 23:53
There was a discussion some time ago about a Korean MT (Michelle?) looking like Carole Kai ("Carole Kai lookalike"). Tonight I caught part of a video on the news at the Blaisdell Exhibition Hall, and she came on camera. Whoa! She looked pretty wild with eyes glaring and hair pigtailed left and right. I guess she looks young for someone who must be in her 60's by now, but I was surprised and the "lookalike" discussion came to mind; no way she looks like Michelle now.One member's report from some time said it all."You guys have some imagination, she doesn't look like Carole Kai. In fact she looks like she ate Carole Kai." That was super funny but true. Personally I never saw the attraction but I accepted that maybe she was hot when she was younger and I guess she looks good for her age. But yeah when I too saw what Michelle looked like I was like,"What the hell are people smoking?" She looked nothing like Carole Kai, besides the fact that she is asian.

Uki Eater
03-06-11, 22:15
One member's report from some time said it all."You guys have some imagination, she doesn't look like Carole Kai. In fact she looks like she ate Carole Kai." That was super funny but true. Personally I never saw the attraction but I accepted that maybe she was hot when she was younger and I guess she looks good for her age. But yeah when I too saw what Michelle looked like I was like,"What the hell are people smoking?" She looked nothing like Carole Kai, besides the fact that she is asian.You guys must be referring to Michelle who is at Rejuve Plus on S Beretania Street. I seen Michelle myself not too long ago and I guess if you compare her looks, smile and hairstyle now, she kinda does resemble Carole Kai with the shorter hair as Michelles hair is short. However, seeing that Carole Kai has her hair long and dyed it, then you wouldn't think that Michelle looks like Carole Kai.

http://www.hawaiistars.com/hosts.asp

H Mobius
03-06-11, 22:39
You guys must be referring to Michelle who is at Rejuve Plus on S Beretania Street. I seen Michelle myself bot too long ago and I guess if you compare her looks, smile and hairstyle now, she kinda does resemble Carole Kai with the shorter hair as Michelles hair is short. However, seeing that Carole Kai has her hair long and dyed it, then you wouldn't think that Michelle looks like Carole Kai.

http://www.hawaiistars.com/hosts.asp

That's a very nice pic of her on that website, unfortunately she looked Nothing like that when she came on camera. I don't want to describe the look she had because that would be crass, but like I said,"Whoa!".

Uki Eater
03-06-11, 22:50
she doesn't look like Carole Kai. In fact she looks like she ate Carole Kai." I know Michelle is on the thicker side but, she was nice though.

Kalani69
03-06-11, 23:19
One member's report from some time said it all."You guys have some imagination, she doesn't look like Carole Kai. In fact she looks like she ate Carole Kai." That was super funny but true. Personally I never saw the attraction but I accepted that maybe she was hot when she was younger and I guess she looks good for her age. But yeah when I too saw what Michelle looked like I was like,"What the hell are people smoking?" She looked nothing like Carole Kai, besides the fact that she is asian.Carole Kai is Asian.

Uki Eater
03-06-11, 23:41
Carole Kai is Asian.I think what he is saying is that the only resemblance Michelle and Carole Kai have is the fact that their both Asian.

Kalani69
03-07-11, 03:59
I think what he is saying is that the only resemblance Michelle and Carole Kai have is the fact that their both Asian.Oh. Duh. Ole fart with a brain fart.

Hypo Luxa
03-07-11, 05:41
Oh. Duh. Ole fart with a brain fart.Been in the same boat a lot myself lately!

Ripe2994
03-07-11, 10:58
Carole Kai is Asian.Was at this crowded event and all eyes were focused on the stage. My "radar" goes off and I look to my right and see this very nice rack tucked inside of a low cut evening dress. I'm watching the stage and peeking occasionally to the side and admiring these beautiful young looking perky twins.

Finally the talk on stage ends I look up to make eye contact and yes it was Carole. She was a hottie when young but am impressed how well she has kept herself together. Such a sweet lady too!

Foojdaman
03-10-11, 14:16
I think Michelle looks more like Rene Mansho than Carole Kai. Her Physical attributes are closer to Rene than Carole. Only my personal opinion. Don't what to start a flaming discussion.

Pineapple Kid
03-10-11, 16:11
She looks more like Rene Mancho than Carole Kai. Good massage, but, I've had better else where. PK.


I think Michelle looks more like Rene Mansho than Carole Kai. Her Physical attributes are closer to Rene than Carole. Only my personal opinion. Don't what to start a flaming discussion.

Smokin Gun
03-21-11, 06:53
I missed out on this event! Check out the link below. Can I cum next time?

http://www.honolulupulse.com/events/pics-floatopia-at-ala-moana-beach-park?pid=14418#pulse-gallery

Stoner R
03-21-11, 12:40
I missed out on this event! Check out the link below. Can I cum next time?

http://www.honolulupulse.com/events/pics-floatopia-at-ala-moana-beach-park?pid=14418#pulse-galleryI see two beached whales in the background at right!

Hypo Luxa
03-21-11, 14:14
I missed out on this event! Check out the link below. Can I cum next time?

http://www.honolulupulse.com/events/pics-floatopia-at-ala-moana-beach-park?pid=14418#pulse-gallery

Oh HELLZ yeah!

The chick in the red bikini behind her on the left looks like she'd have made a great closeup shot too!

(*edit) ...and it appears she did get in a couple of shots!

http://www.honolulupulse.com/events/pics-floatopia-at-ala-moana-beach-park?pid=14411#pulse-gallery
http://www.honolulupulse.com/events/pics-floatopia-at-ala-moana-beach-park?pid=14400#pulse-gallery

Darkman808
03-21-11, 16:42
Oh HELLZ yeah!

The chick in the red bikini behind her on the left looks like she'd have made a great closeup shot too!

(*edit). And it appears she did get in a couple of shots!

http://www.honolulupulse.com/events/pics-floatopia-at-ala-moana-beach-park?pid=14411#pulse-gallery

http://www.honolulupulse.com/events/pics-floatopia-at-ala-moana-beach-park?pid=14400#pulse-galleryYeah I think this is one of those sites that is under appreciated.

Everyday you'll find chicks in bikini shots or at some event that induces women to turn up dressed, looking like, and acting like Hoes. So funny. Right there on he front page. Probably recognize a few if ya look closely. Nobody I know (all too young).

Check it out daily.

First Try
03-23-11, 13:36
http://www.kitv.com/news/27272703/detail.html

Didn't take the time to notice the date of the report. Clip shows the diamond head stairs of Ohana, old site of Sakura Makaloa & VIP.

BJ Hawaii
03-23-11, 14:17
http://www.kitv.com/news/27272703/detail.html

Didn't take the time to notice the date of the report. Clip shows the diamond head stairs of Ohana, old site of Sakura Makaloa & VIP. It was on Monday night

T6650
03-23-11, 16:17
http://www.kitv.com/news/27272703/detail.html

Didn't take the time to notice the date of the report. Clip shows the diamond head stairs of Ohana, old site of Sakura Makaloa & VIP. The story implies that the Sakura site was closed because of a prostitution bust. I believe this is inaccurate and in fact the location was confiscated by Feds because of gambling raids on operations run by the property owner upstairs. Moral of story: if you are going to run a gambling house or massage parlor, do it in a rented location.

Johnny14
03-23-11, 17:13
http://www.kitv.com/news/27272703/detail.html

Didn't take the time to notice the date of the report. Clip shows the diamond head stairs of Ohana, old site of Sakura Makaloa & VIP. Did you see that "woman" from Pacific Alliance (pushing to shut down AMP's)?"She" looks like a man and can now understand why that organization hates men for going to get his sacks emptied. That old haole man probably can't get his pecker up or maybe he likes to get it from behind?

It would be interesting to actually find out the personal agendas of these people and rather or not they live in this area. The news report actually says these AMPs are kept hidden away privately, so what's the big deal? It's the same as a small minority making allot of noise like the gay / lesbian group that finally got their "civil union" agenda passed.

The only problem with these ones is they are trying to do the same with their own agendas and the rest has to suck up to them!

Ocolumbo
03-23-11, 18:25
Did you see that "woman" from Pacific Alliance (pushing to shut down AMP's)?"She" looks like a man and can now understand why that organization hates men for going to get his sacks emptied. That old haole man probably can't get his pecker up or maybe he likes to get it from behind?

It would be interesting to actually find out the personal agendas of these people and rather or not they live in this area. The news report actually says these AMPs are kept hidden away privately, so what's the big deal? It's the same as a small minority making allot of noise like the gay / lesbian group that finally got their "civil union" agenda passed.

The only problem with these ones is they are trying to do the same with their own agendas and the rest has to suck up to them!They are the same kinds of people.

Xian and PASS are radical, militant feminists with ideological agenda to stop all prostitution because that is men oppression of women, with or without human trafficking or coercion. They are the same types of people who champion unrestricted women's reproductive rights, including abortion on demand and partial birth abortion. They would be the same people on the radical Left that support gay marriage.

This is a big push by the Left, with support from neighborhood boards and the media and some religious constituents, to put an end to all forms of prostitution in Honolulu, starting with street walkers and AMPs. Once they succeed there, they will go after strip clubs and hostess bars.

And it does not look like there is anyone standing in their way, is there? Tracy Ryan and APLE who are for decriminalization and legalization of prostitution seem to be retreating and on the defensive. What are the AMPs owners going to do? What are mongers going to do except wring out hands?

Hornyhaole
03-24-11, 00:26
They are the same kinds of people.

Xian and PASS are radical, militant feminists with ideological agenda to stop all prostitution because that is men oppression of women, with or without human trafficking or coercion. They are the same types of people who champion unrestricted women's reproductive rights, including abortion on demand and partial birth abortion. They would be the same people on the radical Left that support gay marriage.

You are only partially correct.

While it is true that some of the members of the political left who support things like women's reproductive rights are also convinced that any sex-related business is oppressive to women, it is by no means a universal stance. I consider myself to be very left-wing and fully support gay marriage and unrestricted reproductive rights for women. Yet I also feel everyone should have the right to make a living by performing a service that does no harm to anyone else. I have known a number of providers over the years and by and large they have felt the same. They want the right to safely make a living through their skills and sex appeal. You know, just like models or pornographic performers do. Both of which are legal activities. It utterly confounds me that paying a woman for sex is OK so long as you get it on video and then sell it.

I also do not believe that sex work, be it pornographic or prostitution, is any more inherently oppressive to the people doing the work than any other industry. There's been about as much routine sadism in the textile industry as in sex work, but you don't see the people of PASS going around talking about the evils of clothing.

So rather than identify these particular loonie-toons as Leftists, let's call them what they are: Uptight Prudes. Whatever their stances are on other topics may be, the one thing we know is they are freaked out by the idea of people having sex all willy-nilly. Whether they take that stance because their church or their vegan friends told them to doesn't matter.


This is a big push by the Left,

I would say this is a big push by uptight and prudish women from the entire political spectrum who are convinced that sexuality is inherently evil. Because, seriously, you don't think right-wingers get just as angered when they imagine a guy getting a blowjob and then compensating the lady for her time and efforts?


And it does not look like there is anyone standing in their way, is there? Tracy Ryan and APLE who are for decriminalization and legalization of prostitution seem to be retreating and on the defensive. What are the AMPs owners going to do? What are mongers going to do except wring out hands?One thing we can do is vote, but that doesn't solve anything short term. I'd suggest writing letters, but so many of us are on the DL I don't expect that to do much.

The cops seem to be fine with it here as long as the whole industry doesn't draw too much attention, but then we've got Mr. Uptight Kaneshiro in the Prosecutor's office, so all bets are off IMO.

Basically they think we're vampires, so until a generation grows up that says "Who gives a frig if you pay the girl after?" we'll be in this state of flux.

Hypo Luxa
03-24-11, 01:53
This is a big push by the Left...Dude, enough with the "left" bashing. Hornyhaole's right, it goes across the whole political spectrum.

And "radical left" people are not the only ones supporting gay marriage. Basically, people who understand what America was founded upon are the ones supporting it. Equal rights for all, no matter the "religious" connotations. Many right wingers, including Dick Cheney and former first lady Laura Bush support gay marriage.

Puinsai808
03-24-11, 02:05
I spoke to a MMS and she said she has had suspicious calls from a woman asking about the business. She suspects this may be a place like PASS and Kathryn Xian.




http://www.kitv.com/news/27272703/detail.html

Didn't take the time to notice the date of the report. Clip shows the diamond head stairs of Ohana, old site of Sakura Makaloa & VIP.

Blade82
03-24-11, 08:19
The story implies that the Sakura site was closed because of a prostitution bust. I believe this is inaccurate and in fact the location was confiscated by Feds because of gambling raids on operations run by the property owner upstairs. Moral of story: if you are going to run a gambling house or massage parlor, do it in a rented location.There were 2 gambling houses in that area. One was at the church and the other was upstairs of the bars. The one at the church was busted years ago and the one above the bars has been closed more than a year already.

Ocolumbo
03-24-11, 14:54
You are only partially correct.

While it is true that some of the members of the political left who support things like women's reproductive rights are also convinced that any sex-related business is oppressive to women, it is by no means a universal stance. I consider myself to be very left-wing and fully support gay marriage and unrestricted reproductive rights for women. Yet I also feel everyone should have the right to make a living by performing a service that does no harm to anyone else. I have known a number of providers over the years and by and large they have felt the same. They want the right to safely make a living through their skills and sex appeal. You know, just like models or pornographic performers do. Both of which are legal activities. It utterly confounds me that paying a woman for sex is OK so long as you get it on video and then sell it.

I also do not believe that sex work, be it pornographic or prostitution, is any more inherently oppressive to the people doing the work than any other industry. There's been about as much routine sadism in the textile industry as in sex work, but you don't see the people of PASS going around talking about the evils of clothing.

So rather than identify these particular loonie-toons as Leftists, let's call them what they are: Uptight Prudes. Whatever their stances are on other topics may be, the one thing we know is they are freaked out by the idea of people having sex all willy-nilly. Whether they take that stance because their church or their vegan friends told them to doesn't matter.

I would say this is a big push by uptight and prudish women from the entire political spectrum who are convinced that sexuality is inherently evil. Because, seriously, you don't think right-wingers get just as angered when they imagine a guy getting a blowjob and then compensating the lady for her time and efforts?

One thing we can do is vote, but that doesn't solve anything short term. I'd suggest writing letters, but so many of us are on the DL I don't expect that to do much.

The cops seem to be fine with it here as long as the whole industry doesn't draw too much attention, but then we've got Mr. Uptight Kaneshiro in the Prosecutor's office, so all bets are off IMO.

Basically they think we're vampires, so until a generation grows up that says "Who gives a frig if you pay the girl after?" we'll be in this state of flux.You have made good points, but I stress that it makes a difference where the attack comes from.

Prudish, religious right wingers who are uncomfortable with sex in general are laughingstocks to the general public and media.

Militant feminist left wingers who use the weapon and propaganda of human trafficking, coercion and slavery gets the attention and support of the media and the public.

One attack is much more powerful and sustainable than the other is.

In my limited and short-term mongering experience (less than 12 months) at relaxation places in town (I have never been to any massage parlors where things are done on a massage table) , and reading about what goes on in other cities on this website, it is very clear to me how good we have it in Hawaii. I don't mean just for the men, but for everyone. The relaxation places provide a level of service in a safe and clean environment for both the men and the women that is quite remarkable. I cannot even imagine anything that could be better. Maybe this ideal situation is built into the high cost we pay. I have no doubt law enforcement and politicians realize this too. That is probably one of the reasons the "brothels" have been tolerated.

If it were not for these brothels, I would not do any mongering at all. It is high risk with a crack working girl on the street in Chinatown or a troubled streetwalker in Waikiki with a pimp. But the brothels, which just do not admit just any girls who want to work there, provide a needed public service that is low risk for both providers and customers.

But it is a more difficult if not impossible task to actually educate the public about the truth of the low risk and win-win situation the relaxation places provide without damaging the discretion the relaxation places need to operate. And this is made much worse by the propaganda of human trafficking, coercion and slavery spewed out by the other side and lapped up by the media.

Ocolumbo
03-24-11, 15:10
Dude, enough with the "left" bashing. Hornyhaole's right, it goes across the whole political spectrum.

And "radical left" people are not the only ones supporting gay marriage. Basically, people who understand what America was founded upon are the ones supporting it. Equal rights for all, no matter the "religious" connotations. Many right wingers, including Dick Cheney and former first lady Laura Bush support gay marriage.I would stress that the type and severity of the attack on prostitution would be very different coming from either the left or the right.

Friends of mine who do not monger, but would go to strip clubs, are flabbergasted when I tell them of the push against prostitution. They automatically assume it comes from the religious right, and they know the religious right has little public support. One example they bring up is civil union. How would the religious right be able to make a move against prostitution when same sex unions are being made legal? But what they do not understand is that prudishness is not the issue. What is at issue, based on my observations in the last few months, is an ideological agenda of the radical left that wield the weapon of human trafficking, coercion and slavery. And this campaign is led by PASS in Hawaii.

I am sorry, Bro, that is the way I see it. Since I have started mongering, I have accepted more social libertarian ideas. And to be consistent that would include a better acceptance of gay marriage too in my own mind.

Hornyhaole
03-25-11, 05:46
Militant feminist left wingers who use the weapon and propaganda of human trafficking, coercion and slavery gets the attention and support of the media and the public.

I agree, but again partially. The people currently using those deceptive tactics are in fact radical "feminists." Though I wouldn't personally define them as such. A feminist is someone who supports women's right, not someone who wants to restrict them and dictate their "morality" to everyone.

But my original point was that they do not speak for the vast majority of the political left, just as the crazier elements of the right do not speak for all conservatives.

PASS, and people like them, are splinter factions who seem to believe all the world's evils begin and end with men. Particularly horny men.

They are the same misguided social puritans who championed prohibition. It was only because of that one issue that women fought for the right to vote. They wanted that right just so they could take away everyone else's right to drink.

I think the parallels with this activity are obvious.

Ocolumbo
03-25-11, 15:04
I agree, but again partially. The people currently using those deceptive tactics are in fact radical "feminists." Though I wouldn't personally define them as such. A feminist is someone who supports women's right, not someone who wants to restrict them and dictate their "morality" to everyone.

But my original point was that they do not speak for the vast majority of the political left, just as the crazier elements of the right do not speak for all conservatives.

PASS, and people like them, are splinter factions who seem to believe all the world's evils begin and end with men. Particularly horny men.

They are the same misguided social puritans who championed prohibition. It was only because of that one issue that women fought for the right to vote. They wanted that right just so they could take away everyone else's right to drink.

I think the parallels with this activity are obvious.What bothers me the most is the media, like Civil Beat and KITV, is in bed with Xian and PASS, giving her a forum to spew her lies and propaganda.

Ocolumbo
03-25-11, 19:33
Here you go. The juggernaut on the offensive. Cross hair on hostess bars too.

http://honoluluweekly.com/cover/2011/03/how-much-is-your-daughter-worth/

Candy Addict
03-25-11, 23:11
Let me throw out a few thoughts and observations on this discussion, which collectively probably are nowhere near worth $.02.

First, Brother Oculumbo, I don't question your sincerity or your good intentions, but I have to say your posts make it sound like you're hyperventilating! Breath into a paper bag, slow down, try to relax. You say you've been mongering for about 12 months, and have based your comments on what you've observed. Well, many of us have been at this a lot longer than that. I've been mongering for over 30 years now. I've seen all of this before, and I'll see all of it again. This current anti-prostitution wave is nothing new. This kind of stuff comes and goes with a fairly regular rhythm as it has since the beginnings of the Oldest Profession. The current wave will fade despite PASS's intentions. In a few years, there'll be another one, and another. But little will change. The industry will evolve and adapt, but it will continue, just as it always has.

The media attention runs in several overlapping cycles. There's more attention paid to our hobby every election year, for example. This year is somewhat unique because it's a Reapportionment year, meaning the entire Hawaii legislature. House and Senate. Are serving two-year terms, so they have little time to make a splash before having to run again. Also, the mayor and city prosecutor were just elected in a special election to fill out the remaining two years of their predecessor's terms. So they have to make a bit of noise to get the attention of the voters. Activist groups of all causes and persuasions are aware of this and are attempting to make the most of it. The TV media also has another cycle. The ratings "Sweeps" cycle. Three times a year, local ratings are measured during what are referred to as "Sweeps Months." I believe these are February, May and November, but don't hold me to that. During sweeps months, the TV news operations run the most sensational stories they can find in order to pad their ratings, because these ratings determine the rates they can charge advertisers. Nearly every sweeps month can be counted on to feature one or more exposes on prostitution because it bumps up ratings. While newspapers don't have to contend with these ratings, they are nevertheless competitive by nature. So if TV news is doing prostitution stories, then the paper (s) nearly always follow suit.

Now, in addition to having mongered for 30+ years, both here and on the mainland, I will confess that I'm very active in local politics. I've held precinct and district officer positions in the past. I even ran for office once. I've met most of the current crop of legislators and city council members. I know several on a first-name basis. Some of them, I've talked to, discretely, about our hobby. Others, I've read and heard enough to form educated guesses about their attitudes and views. IMHO, in the current legislature, there is little stomach for much more than tinkering around the edges of our current prostitution laws, despite all of the media attention from PASS and their supporters. The "John Felony" bill has gotten further along than most anti-prostitution bills do, but its passage is by no means certain. Given the focus on the budget crisis, I'd put its chances of passing at around 50-50 at best. I initially expected the Human Trafficking bill to get further, and it still has a chance. But a number of legislators are publicly questioning the need for it, since the activities it prohibits are already addressed under existing statutes, though they're not specifically labeled as "human trafficking." Also, our legislature, God bless them, has an amazing knack for passing laws that look and sound like they're addressing a problem, yet are worded in ways to make them ineffective or even utterly useless. Often, the watering down process occurs at the end-stage of bill-passage. In other words, the current wording of these bills is very likely to change (for better or worse) before final passage. So, by all means, follow the legislative process, but don't get too carried away until you see what actually ends up getting sent to the governor.

Finally, Brothers Hypo Luxa and Hornyhaole both make excellent points with respect to the political philosophies at play here and where various groups fall on the political spectrum. I consider myself to be center-left. I wholeheartedly endorsed the civil unions bill. I may be straight, but I have many LGBT friends and they're deserving of the same rights, privileges, responsibilities, obligations and burdens as everyone else. I also fully support women's reproductive freedoms. Groups like PASS most definitely do not speak for the overwhelming majority of feminists and liberals.

Prohibition-style policies don't work, never have, and never will. Just as liquor survived the original prohibition, prostitution, gambling, drug-use, etc, are here to stay. They'll change forms, adapt, evolve, and even reinvent themselves if necessary, but they won't go away no matter what groups like PASS may try to do. In other words, this too shall pass! (pun intended!)

So chill out, Brother! May you enjoy as many years of mongering as I have!

CA

Otis C1
03-25-11, 23:54
Let me throw out a few thoughts and observations on this discussion, which collectively probably are nowhere near worth $.02.

First, Brother Oculumbo, I don't question your sincerity or your good intentions, but I have to say your posts make it sound like you're hyperventilating! Breath into a paper bag, slow down, try to relax.

So chill out, Brother! May you enjoy as many years of mongering as I have!

CABruddah Candy Addict, you have stated things that I pretty much echo to people who care to ask about such subjects. I wish I was as eloquent as you. You are absolutely correct. The media only puts out those types of stories for the bottom line. Those in government pass laws that will as you say make a lot of noise for the sake of making their constituents think they're doing a good job. That way they can get re elected and they don't get too much flack when they vote themselves a pay raise. Even in this present economy. As for these cuckoos in P. A. S. S, the agenda isn't currently clear but as history shows, groups like this are in it for some kind of power gain. In all of this brew ha ha, I boil it down to one universal equation: A+B=$.

For those of you who are new to the hobby, take heart as Candy Addict has stated the providers will always be there. They will always find a way to skirt the law. For us hobbyists, we don't want to go through the hassle of getting busted so we have to adapt and always be aware of out surroundings and use common sense. If the provider is TGTBT, you may be trying to pick up an undercover. If you see people hanging around the providers establishment that don't look right, it could be a bust. Just saying, be safe Oh

Ocolumbo
03-26-11, 02:40
Let me throw out a few thoughts and observations on this discussion, which collectively probably are nowhere near worth $.02.

First, Brother Oculumbo, I don't question your sincerity or your good intentions, but I have to say your posts make it sound like you're hyperventilating! Breath into a paper bag, slow down, try to relax. You say you've been mongering for about 12 months, and have based your comments on what you've observed. Well, many of us have been at this a lot longer than that. I've been mongering for over 30 years now. I've seen all of this before, and I'll see all of it again. This current anti-prostitution wave is nothing new. This kind of stuff comes and goes with a fairly regular rhythm as it has since the beginnings of the Oldest Profession. The current wave will fade despite PASS's intentions. In a few years, there'll be another one, and another. But little will change. The industry will evolve and adapt, but it will continue, just as it always has.

The media attention runs in several overlapping cycles. There's more attention paid to our hobby every election year, for example. This year is somewhat unique because it's a Reapportionment year, meaning the entire Hawaii legislature. House and Senate. Are serving two-year terms, so they have little time to make a splash before having to run again. Also, the mayor and city prosecutor were just elected in a special election to fill out the remaining two years of their predecessor's terms. So they have to make a bit of noise to get the attention of the voters. Activist groups of all causes and persuasions are aware of this and are attempting to make the most of it. The TV media also has another cycle. The ratings "Sweeps" cycle. Three times a year, local ratings are measured during what are referred to as "Sweeps Months." I believe these are February, May and November, but don't hold me to that. During sweeps months, the TV news operations run the most sensational stories they can find in order to pad their ratings, because these ratings determine the rates they can charge advertisers. Nearly every sweeps month can be counted on to feature one or more exposes on prostitution because it bumps up ratings. While newspapers don't have to contend with these ratings, they are nevertheless competitive by nature. So if TV news is doing prostitution stories, then the paper (s) nearly always follow suit.

Now, in addition to having mongered for 30+ years, both here and on the mainland, I will confess that I'm very active in local politics. I've held precinct and district officer positions in the past. I even ran for office once. I've met most of the current crop of legislators and city council members. I know several on a first-name basis. Some of them, I've talked to, discretely, about our hobby. Others, I've read and heard enough to form educated guesses about their attitudes and views. IMHO, in the current legislature, there is little stomach for much more than tinkering around the edges of our current prostitution laws, despite all of the media attention from PASS and their supporters. The "John Felony" bill has gotten further along than most anti-prostitution bills do, but its passage is by no means certain. Given the focus on the budget crisis, I'd put its chances of passing at around 50-50 at best. I initially expected the Human Trafficking bill to get further, and it still has a chance. But a number of legislators are publicly questioning the need for it, since the activities it prohibits are already addressed under existing statutes, though they're not specifically labeled as "human trafficking." Also, our legislature, God bless them, has an amazing knack for passing laws that look and sound like they're addressing a problem, yet are worded in ways to make them ineffective or even utterly useless. Often, the watering down process occurs at the end-stage of bill-passage. In other words, the current wording of these bills is very likely to change (for better or worse) before final passage. So, by all means, follow the legislative process, but don't get too carried away until you see what actually ends up getting sent to the governor.

Finally, Brothers Hypo Luxa and Hornyhaole both make excellent points with respect to the political philosophies at play here and where various groups fall on the political spectrum. I consider myself to be center-left. I wholeheartedly endorsed the civil unions bill. I may be straight, but I have many LGBT friends and they're deserving of the same rights, privileges, responsibilities, obligations and burdens as everyone else. I also fully support women's reproductive freedoms. Groups like PASS most definitely do not speak for the overwhelming majority of feminists and liberals.

Prohibition-style policies don't work, never have, and never will. Just as liquor survived the original prohibition, prostitution, gambling, drug-use, etc, are here to stay. They'll change forms, adapt, evolve, and even reinvent themselves if necessary, but they won't go away no matter what groups like PASS may try to do. In other words, this too shall pass! (pun intended!)

So chill out, Brother! May you enjoy as many years of mongering as I have!

CACA, I appreciate the time you took to write, and your long-term perspective. I have mongered actually much less than 12 months. But I have been doing it at hyperspeed, to my wallet's chagrin. I need to slow down badly.

I am paranoid that the option of mongering will be taken away, just when I have found it. I would like the option to be around for decades to come, regardless of how frequent or infrequent I choose the option. Main point is to have the option. Mahalo.

Lahainawhaler
03-26-11, 03:03
Here you go. The juggernaut on the offensive. Cross hair on hostess bars too.

http://honoluluweekly.com/cover/2011/03/how-much-is-your-daughter-worth/

I saw the copies on the streets. The article is really written like an opinion / promotion for PASS rather than objective.

So much for good journalism plus the weekly also runs ads for photographer looking for female nudes, massage places, head shops, and occasional adult personals. I guess PASS passed over this.

Hornyhaole
03-26-11, 07:25
What bothers me the most is the media, like Civil Beat and KITV, is in bed with Xian and PASS, giving her a forum to spew her lies and propaganda.You have something of a point. Having worked in the media, I can tell you that reporters working on social issues are easy to fool when you use the right words. Just tell them you're fighting for someone's rights and they'll buy everything you say. And like most people they assume that if something is a crime it must be harmful to society and that morality is black and white.

The only reporting I really respect is business, sports and science. The first two because they serve readers who bet money on the information, and science because the sources dry up if a story is just a little bit off. Everything else is either rewriting what was heard on the police scanner or spin.

Hornyhaole
03-26-11, 07:39
I saw the copies on the streets. The article is really written like an opinion / promotion for PASS rather than objective.

So much for good journalism plus the weekly also runs ads for photographer looking for female nudes, massage places, head shops, and occasional adult personals. I guess PASS passed over this. FWIW, The Weekly isn't a "news" paper as such, it's an entertainment rag. Like most of its kind almost all the articles are soapboxes for some social cause or other. There's never been much point in reading those kinds of publications for anything resembling objective reporting.

Hypo Luxa
03-26-11, 15:20
FWIW, The Weekly isn't a "news" paper as such, it's an entertainment rag. Like most of its kind almost all the articles are soapboxes for some social cause or other. There's never been much point in reading those kinds of publications for anything resembling objective reporting.Same with Midweek.

Hornyhaole
03-27-11, 00:04
I am paranoid that the option of mongering will be taken away, just when I have found it. I would like the option to be around for decades to come, As others have said, you can relax. I've been at it-on and off-for 17 years now. This kind of posturing is tied to election cycles and is meaningless in the mid to long term.

There's really not much more that can be done to prevent it legally, and actually the cops like it the way it is. It's an easy way for them to nail genuine bad guys in organized crime, and also pad their arrest quotas. Plus, lots of them see the girls in exchange for looking the other way. Hell, former NY governor and former state atty general Elliot Spitzer was removed from office when he was outed as a big time monger. And he had been known for busting "sex rings."

So PASS and their ilk will make some noise, maybe get some donations to their cause, and their naive supporters will tell themselves they've done something about evil male oppression of women.

Meanwhile, girls with looks and a need for fast cash will still be showing up and offering intimacies in exchange for your dollars. That's the part the believers in the oppression myth can't understand: there are plenty of girls who want to do this and they don't see what the big deal is.

It's not called the oldest profession for nothing (though I think cooking might be older). It's not going anywhere.

Though from what you say your savings might be. Self control is the key to safety when mongering.

Addendum: I didn't even mention the 600lb gorilla in the room-the military. It's not the same as the old days when the ratio of male to female enlisted was much greater, but it's still overwhelmingly male. Young males who spend months or years with zero chances of privacy with a willing girl. The local commanders can't say anything publicly, but they don't want to be bailing their guys out all the time for trying to get laid. These are guys who get shot at for a living, the least they deserve is some T&A when on leave. I think that if any serious kind of john felony gets close to passing, our elected officials will get some irate phone calls from guys with stars and eagles on their clothes.

John Ross
03-27-11, 00:22
As others have said, you can relax. I've been at it-on and off-for 17 years now. This kind of posturing is tied to election cycles and is meaningless in the mid to long term.

There's really not much more that can be done to prevent it legally, and actually the cops like it the way it is. It's an easy way for them to nail genuine bad guys in organized crime, and also pad their arrest quotas. Plus, lots of them see the girls in exchange for looking the other way. Hell, former NY governor and former state atty general Elliot Spitzer was removed from office when he was outed as a big time monger. And he had been known for busting "sex rings."

So PASS and their ilk will make some noise, maybe get some donations to their cause, and their naive supporters will tell themselves they've done something about evil male oppression of women.

Meanwhile, girls with looks and a need for fast cash will still be showing up and offering intimacies in exchange for your dollars. That's the part the believers in the oppression myth can't understand: there are plenty of girls who want to do this and they don't see what the big deal is.

It's not called the oldest profession for nothing (though I think cooking might be older). It's not going anywhere.

Though from what you say your savings might be. Self control is the key to safety when mongering. It is not called the world's oldest profession for nothing.

Uki Eater
03-27-11, 00:30
I am paranoid that the option of mongering will be taken away, just when I have found it. I would like the option to be around for decades to come, regardless of how frequent or infrequent I choose the option. Main point is to have the option. Mahalo.Frankly, I don't think about this. If you think about it too much you don't focus on enjoying it now. Don't focus and worry about the the future of it. Enjoy it as much as you can now while it lasts.

If it does get taken away, at least you can look back and say that you lived it up and took advantage of it when it was around.

Davidonecall
03-27-11, 00:58
Frankly, I don't think about this. If you think about it too much you don't focus on enjoying it now. Don't focus and worry about the the future of it. Enjoy it as much as you can now while it lasts.

If it does get taken away, at least you can look back and say that you lived it up and took advantage of it when it was around. Our hobby have been around for ever. I believe that this hobby will be around for many more. If you slow down someone else will pick it up. It a cycle that will continue. Happy hunting.

Hornyhaole
03-27-11, 01:05
In case my previous post made it sound like I was ok with the status quo, let me make it clear that I'm not. I want full legalization and I want it now-for a slew of reasons. Everything from removing the risks of dealing with cops and dangerous criminals (for us and the girls) to driving down prices (though many girls won't like that one) to simply removing the retarded social stigma.

My beef with PASS and their type is not due to a fear they'll somehow be able to actually prevent it, it's that they and the voters they represent are the driving force perpetuating the cycle. If they got over it then the politicians and cops might move on to genuine social ills.

Thought it's just as likely something equally inane would replace it, like flag burning or satanism. People just looooove witch hunts.

H Mobius
03-27-11, 01:29
Our hobby have been around for ever. I believe that this hobby will be around for many more. If you slow down someone else will pick it up. It a cycle that will continue. Happy hunting.Yup. My first rented nan was in a KB SB. Then they got cracked-down on so I leaned more towards KB hostess bars; then they had to get rid of the barriers that formed their 'private tables'.

Then I stumbled upon my first AMP; aside from a single close-call, I've never been snagged in a raid but the last thing I wanna see anywhere that night is a cop. Then came Korean and Chinese indies, plus ones like Angela who I first met in an AMP.

I read the article in Ocolumbo's post and I really don't buy those kinds of statements, at least in our sector, only because in my experience, local girls have told me that they heard about the money Korean girls make and they want to get in on the action. "How Much Is Your Daughter Worth?"; go to Michelle's on Sheridan or Evergreen after 2 am and ask her.

Korean AMP girls today tell me the same thing Korean bar girls have told me 20 years ago when asked how they found the place (because really, we live here and we're asking each other "Where's this place?"-type questions): "I need money; my friend introduce me." Candy at Ichiban was one of the only girls I've interacted with who seemed unhappy where she was.

Well anyway, JR is absolutely right.

Hornyhaole
03-27-11, 05:56
Same with Midweek.Not so much entertainment as crappy shopping circular you receive whether you want it or not, but yeah. The "articles" in that one are there just to get a good postage rate.

At least the Weekly's arts and entertainment reviews have some value.

Peach2
03-27-11, 06:23
I have a question about PASS and human trafficking. Is human trafficking different from prostitution? When I think of human trafficking I think of scenes from movies when the girls are held against their will or women kidnapped and forced into prostitution. Of course, that is inhumane and shouldn't be tolerated in any country.

However, my main concern is that is PASS trying to sell their idea to the public that all these women at AMP's and women on backpage are being forced into prostitution? If so, Is anyone setting PASS straight and letting them know that these women have a choice. They aren't forced into this. All the girls I know want to be in the industry to make quick money. Most of them don't want to take on a 9-5. They can stop working whenever they feel like it. If they do want leave no one is going to hold a gun to their head. You don't even have that freedom if you are in the military.

I really don't understand PASS's argument about human trafficking. I would understand if they said we should have tougher laws on prostitution but why lie and say they these women are being trafficked. Also, Isn't it better to keep the girls in a more controlled and hidden area like an AMP vs putting them on the streets. I understand why groups like PASS are created but is someone informing them that it might do more harm to their cause by abolishing AMP's. There would be an adverse affect that will create a situation of having more street walkers and pimps resulting in more violent crimes. I feel that the pimp-prostitute business role model is more along the lines of human trafficking than AMP's or freelancers. By attacking massage parlors they will only be hurting their own cause. Just my thoughts.

Hypo Luxa
03-27-11, 06:28
It's basically as follows:

Honolulu Weekly = MSNBC = Left Wing.

Midweek = FoxNEWS = Right Wing.


Not so much entertainment as crappy shopping circular you receive whether you want it or not, but yeah. The "articles" in that one are there just to get a good postage rate.

At least the Weekly's arts and entertainment reviews have some value.

Slypher
03-27-11, 18:20
In case my previous post made it sound like I was ok with the status quo, let me make it clear that I'm not. I want full legalization and I want it now-for a slew of reasons. Everything from removing the risks of dealing with cops and dangerous criminals (for us and the girls) to driving down prices (though many girls won't like that one) to simply removing the retarded social stigma.

My beef with PASS and their type is not due to a fear they'll somehow be able to actually prevent it, it's that they and the voters they represent are the driving force perpetuating the cycle. If they got over it then the politicians and cops might move on to genuine social ills.

Thought it's just as likely something equally inane would replace it, like flag burning or satanism. People just looooove witch hunts.Not disagreeing with you on any other point, but legalization or decriminalization would not remove the social stigma from prostitution. Look how long it's been since the civil rights movement helped to make African Americans considered equal, or women's lib for women. These groups still face social stigma today, though it is less universal.

Also consider that America was colonized by some of the most prude, uptight religious fucknuts that ever existed. Their beliefs still carry weight in today's society which is why we're having trouble with making civil unions, prostitution and other 'sins and vice' legal while organizations like the cult of $cientology are protected.

I agree, prostitution should be legalized. I agree that it will make prostitution safer for all those involved. But there will always be people who will go out of their way to fuck with mongers and working girls because they think that they are right and we are wrong.

Hornyhaole
03-27-11, 21:32
Is human trafficking different from prostitution?"Human trafficking" is simply cop slang for slavery. Unless you think all prostitution is slavery (as PASS seems to) then the answer is yes.


When I think of human trafficking I think of scenes from movies when the girls are held against their will or women kidnapped and forced into prostitution. Of course, that is inhumane and shouldn't be tolerated in any country.Now you see how PASS's plan works: By obscuring their real social cause (stopping all that filthy sex, and preventing some girls from making a living) behind the bureaucratic cop jargon for one of the greatest evils ever committed on humanity by other humans (slavery) , they fool the media and the public into thinking they're freeing prisoners from literal cages.

And while it bothers me that they are against prostitution, what *really* gets up my nose is they are doing so by stealing public empathy for people who are much more victimized than Honolulu SW, AMP girls, independents and whatever. Actual freaking slaves. These lowlife scum are cloaking themselves in the mantle of a cause they could not care less about.

It was just last September that we had this:

Hawaii Home To Largest Human Trafficking Case in US History

http://www.kitv.com/news/24866750/detail.html

When you click the link you'll notice a distinct lack of massage tables and happy endings. Those folks were doing the same kind of back-breaking manual labor under an unforgiving sun that was common in the South 150 years ago. That's the real face of slavery in the US. That's the real face of slavery in most of the world.

And where the hell was PASS during this? Why aren't they out patrolling local farms, for crying out loud? That's where real slavery happens when the cops screw up. As much as guys like sex, everyone needs food. And the slavers don't even have to worry what the slaves look like.

Don't get me wrong though. Sex slavery exists in this world and it's just as hideous as you can imagine. However I don't think we've got any brothels like that here. We're pretty high-profile for the military, as I mentioned in an earlier post. And it's too easy for a girl with mediocre-or-better looks and a decent sales pitch to make mad bank in Waikiki without ever performing anything sexier than a handjob with her top off.

But going after those girls, and the guys who are willing to pay for those handjobs, and calling yourself a champion in the fight against "human trafficking" is extraordinarily low. It's an insult to the poor souls who right this minute are in holding cells somewhere.


However, my main concern is that is PASS trying to sell their idea to the public that all these women at AMP's and women on backpage are being forced into prostitution? If so, Is anyone setting PASS straight and letting them know that these women have a choice.

In an organization built on lies there are two types of members. The upper management, or "liars." And the rank-and-file, or "suckers." Trying to talk reasonably to either group is pointless. The organizers have their own agendas, one of the most common being "let's keep the fight going so I can keep getting paid tax-free." And they've doped their often well-meaning, hard-working and painfully naive foot soldiers with an industrial-strength version of the sales pitch in order to keep them in line.


I really don't understand PASS's argument about human trafficking. If their cause had anything at all to do with human trafficking, they'd have signed up for law enforcement. These are puritanical prostitution abolitionists, pure and simple.

Hornyhaole
03-27-11, 23:40
It's basically as follows:

Honolulu Weekly = MSNBC = Left Wing.

Midweek = FoxNEWS = Right Wing. I think it's a little simpler. Midweek will publish whoever feels like putting some words in a row in time for deadline and doesn't mind not getting paid. One of them is Anger (such an ironic name), but most of the rest are pretty forgettable. Having an actual editorial slant takes, well, giving a shit.

But yeah the Weekly's opinion pieces are pretty liberal. Their audience and talent pool is college kids who like to drink and write. They tend to be budding social activists.

Lahainawhaler
03-27-11, 23:43
"Human trafficking" is simply cop slang for slavery. Unless you think all prostitution is slavery (as PASS seems to) then the answer is yes.

Now you see how PASS's plan works: By obscuring their real social cause (stopping all that filthy sex, and preventing some girls from making a living) behind the bureaucratic cop jargon for one of the greatest evils ever committed on humanity by other humans (slavery) , they fool the media and the public into thinking they're freeing prisoners from literal cages.

And while it bothers me that they are against prostitution, what *really* gets up my nose is they are doing so by stealing public empathy for people who are much more victimized than Honolulu SW, AMP girls, independents and whatever. Actual freaking slaves. These lowlife scum are cloaking themselves in the mantle of a cause they could not care less about.

It was just last September that we had this:

Hawaii Home To Largest Human Trafficking Case in US History

http://www.kitv.com/news/24866750/detail.html

When you click the link you'll notice a distinct lack of massage tables and happy endings. Those folks were doing the same kind of back-breaking manual labor under an unforgiving sun that was common in the South 150 years ago. That's the real face of slavery in the US. That's the real face of slavery in most of the world.

And where the hell was PASS during this? Why aren't they out patrolling local farms, for crying out loud? That's where real slavery happens when the cops screw up. As much as guys like sex, everyone needs food. And the slavers don't even have to worry what the slaves look like.

Don't get me wrong though. Sex slavery exists in this world and it's just as hideous as you can imagine. However I don't think we've got any brothels like that here. We're pretty high-profile for the military, as I mentioned in an earlier post. And it's too easy for a girl with mediocre-or-better looks and a decent sales pitch to make mad bank in Waikiki without ever performing anything sexier than a handjob with her top off.

But going after those girls, and the guys who are willing to pay for those handjobs, and calling yourself a champion in the fight against "human trafficking" is extraordinarily low. It's an insult to the poor souls who right this minute are in holding cells somewhere.

In an organization built on lies there are two types of members. The upper management, or "liars." And the rank-and-file, or "suckers." Trying to talk reasonably to either group is pointless. The organizers have their own agendas, one of the most common being "let's keep the fight going so I can keep getting paid tax-free." And they've doped their often well-meaning, hard-working and painfully naive foot soldiers with an industrial-strength version of the sales pitch in order to keep them in line.

If their cause had anything at all to do with human trafficking, they'd have signed up for law enforcement. These are puritanical prostitution abolitionists, pure and simple. This was the best response written. Brother, I know you cannot use your real name, but this should be used in Letters to the Editor pages for Hon Weekly and even sent to PASS. Heck, maybe just use the name H. H. Aole from Honolulu! I recall years ago, our local politicians banned bidis cigarettes to "protect our children from smoking since they were flavored and looked like joints." Plus, they claimed that bidi factories in poorer countries paid children to work."Child labor, sweat shops, slavery!" So, states ban bidis, putting out of work a lot of children who were working hard to support their families and now have to peddle themselves out on the streets. So, if all these places here shut down for everyone's own protection, many ladies don't have a place to stay or afford rent for place to live, will have to file for unemployment, and landlords will lose money from all the rent cost of the establishments.

Hornyhaole
03-28-11, 00:31
This was the best response written. Brother, I know you cannot use your real name, but this should be used in Letters to the Editor pages for Hon Weekly and even sent to PASS. Heck, maybe just use the name H. H. Aole from Honolulu! Thanks for the kind words, and I'll think about the suggestion. They'll need my real name to publish it, but it's standard practice to grant a letter writer anonymity if they want it.

Edit: There is one bright spot to all of this. Apparently the word "prostitution" and its image is no longer enough of a shocker to upset the public on its own. The fact that PASS and people like them feel the need to "rebrand" it as slavery says they're either over-reaching or getting desperate.

Peach2
03-28-11, 02:13
Thanks for the kind words, and I'll think about the suggestion. They'll need my real name to publish it, but it's standard practice to grant a letter writer anonymity if they want it.

Edit: There is one bright spot to all of this. Apparently the word "prostitution" and its image is no longer enough of a shocker to upset the public on its own. The fact that PASS and people like them feel the need to "rebrand" it as slavery says they're either over-reaching or getting desperate. Thanks for answering my question. Nice report.

Niceguy808
03-28-11, 02:17
If a girl gets into the biz of her own free will, then I think that it's her own business. But, if she's got some pimp forcing her to get out on the strip or he'll beat the crap out of her, then I've got serious issues with that.

There are certainly some nights when it's slow out there for SWs and there is simply no money for them to make, no matter how many guys they approach. Yet, I've seen firsthand pimps yelling at their girls to stay out there, even after 6am in Waikiki. This is after walking around all damn night, they have to stay out there until they make some quota or they'll have to go out the next night and make-up the difference plus that night's quota.

I've seen too many news reports of girls being forced into it and being beaten by pimps, so I will not see any girl if I know she's being pimped. This is why I stopped picking-up SWs, especially Downtown.

I don't think that all prostitution is slavery, but there's certainly a problem out there and I think PASS has a part to play in cracking-down on pimps. If every girl out there is doing it out of her own free will and the money we give them goes to them and not to some wannabe superfly, I think that's the best way for it to be.

Lahainawhaler
03-28-11, 02:54
If a girl gets into the biz of her own free will, then I think that it's her own business. But, if she's got some pimp forcing her to get out on the strip or he'll beat the crap out of her, then I've got serious issues with that.

There are certainly some nights when it's slow out there for SWs and there is simply no money for them to make, no matter how many guys they approach. Yet, I've seen firsthand pimps yelling at their girls to stay out there, even after 6am in Waikiki. This is after walking around all damn night, they have to stay out there until they make some quota or they'll have to go out the next night and make-up the difference plus that night's quota.

I've seen too many news reports of girls being forced into it and being beaten by pimps, so I will not see any girl if I know she's being pimped. This is why I stopped picking-up SWs, especially Downtown.

I don't think that all prostitution is slavery, but there's certainly a problem out there and I think PASS has a part to play in cracking-down on pimps. If every girl out there is doing it out of her own free will and the money we give them goes to them and not to some wannabe superfly, I think that's the best way for it to be. Those are good points as well. In reading yours and brother Hornyhaole's views, perhaps some of us could at least make print outs of responses and mail them to PASS directly and the media. This way, our names are kept private and they get "the other side" of the coin. Yes, if they could concentrate their energy to HELPING these girls being used by pimps with things like shelter, counseling, medical treatment and finding a steady job instead of making moral judgements on everyone especially men, then maybe they would get more respect. Right now, these activist groups seem more like out for a power and funding grab. (Squeaky wheel gets the grease.) There is a group called Sister Offering Support (SOS) for girls getting off the street which is a very helpful. I don't think these girls need fines and punishment, but be given hope that they can have a new start.

Hornyhaole
03-28-11, 03:49
If a girl gets into the biz of her own free will, then I think that it's her own business. But, if she's got some pimp forcing her to get out on the strip or he'll beat the crap out of her, then I've got serious issues with that.

(snip)

I don't think that all prostitution is slavery, but there's certainly a problem out there and I think PASS has a part to play in cracking-down on pimps. If every girl out there is doing it out of her own free will and the money we give them goes to them and not to some wannabe superfly, I think that's the best way for it to be. You have a point about pimps, but they only exist because it's illegal. If that weren't the case the girls would have all the legal protection of anyone with a job. Girls work with pimps because they need protection from other pimps, amongst other things (drug use and so on).

By pushing for tougher laws PASS plays right into the pimps' hands: there's no regulation, no legal protection for the workers, and prices are kept high.

So in my estimation PASS is a pimp's best friend next to a dirty cop.

Hornyhaole
03-28-11, 04:12
Those are good points as well. In reading yours and brother Hornyhaole's views, perhaps some of us could at least make print outs of responses and mail them to PASS directly and the media. I don't want to draw attention from PASS or the media to this or any other forum. If anyone does write to anyone I would suggest a letter to the editor at either the Weekly or the S-A. Don't copy anything from anything anyone has written online since it can be easily searched for and found. And I mean a total rewrite, don't reuse so much as a phrase.

The cops naturally read everything here, and this is one of the safer topics to be on since we're discussing social issues. But 99 percent of review sites are pretty filthy and all PASS would have to do is say "look at how disgusting these men are" to totally invalidate any points that are made.

As for writing to PASS, I admire your faith in human nature and good will, but I don't think it would accomplish anything beyond drawing their attention to the clientele. I truly think we are irredeemably evil in their view. And since I don't expect any of you want to go on camera any more than me, we would be unable to defend our points and possibly make something like "online john club" a household phrase next to "craigslist killer." Everything creepy is somehow worse when you add an online element to it.

Hornyhaole
03-28-11, 04:45
Even if a miracle occured and the members of PASS had a total change of heart, nothing very detectable would change. As several have said earlier, this media push of theirs is a normal part of the political cycle. Campaigning on sex crimes is an easy way to get noticed and get elected, just ask Eliot Spitzer. If he doesn't abruptly hang up on you.

This activity ranks far below other arguably more worthy causes in the public's mind. It was, what, about 40 years ago that the Stonewall demonstrations happened in NYC and it's still not OK to be gay in almost the whole country, let alone get married. Marijuana use is far closer to legalization than prostitution, but its stalled despite having proven medical benefits for people dying of cancer. Cancer. And us? We just want to get laid on demand.

In a society that finds sex to be a necessary evil at best, even those who are sympathetic will tell us to get back in line. Societies change slowly, coinciding with the mortality rate.

But if patience isn't your thing, visit Vegas. And if you do, bring me.

Hornyhaole
03-28-11, 04:48
Not disagreeing with you on any other point, but legalization or decriminalization would not remove the social stigma from prostitution.Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that decriminalization would do that. I want decriminalization and a removal of the stigma, but they are two separate things. The stigma contributes to its legal standing though, so I think that needs to fade away first. And that will probably take several decades at least.

Ocolumbo
03-29-11, 03:03
I hear that PASS is sponsored by one local church, whose members buy into the trafficking lies and the rescue work lies PASS tries to tell the world it does but actually does not do.


"Human trafficking" is simply cop slang for slavery. Unless you think all prostitution is slavery (as PASS seems to) then the answer is yes.

Now you see how PASS's plan works: By obscuring their real social cause (stopping all that filthy sex, and preventing some girls from making a living) behind the bureaucratic cop jargon for one of the greatest evils ever committed on humanity by other humans (slavery) , they fool the media and the public into thinking they're freeing prisoners from literal cages.

And while it bothers me that they are against prostitution, what *really* gets up my nose is they are doing so by stealing public empathy for people who are much more victimized than Honolulu SW, AMP girls, independents and whatever. Actual freaking slaves. These lowlife scum are cloaking themselves in the mantle of a cause they could not care less about.

It was just last September that we had this:

Hawaii Home To Largest Human Trafficking Case in US History

http://www.kitv.com/news/24866750/detail.html

When you click the link you'll notice a distinct lack of massage tables and happy endings. Those folks were doing the same kind of back-breaking manual labor under an unforgiving sun that was common in the South 150 years ago. That's the real face of slavery in the US. That's the real face of slavery in most of the world.

And where the hell was PASS during this? Why aren't they out patrolling local farms, for crying out loud? That's where real slavery happens when the cops screw up. As much as guys like sex, everyone needs food. And the slavers don't even have to worry what the slaves look like.

Don't get me wrong though. Sex slavery exists in this world and it's just as hideous as you can imagine. However I don't think we've got any brothels like that here. We're pretty high-profile for the military, as I mentioned in an earlier post. And it's too easy for a girl with mediocre-or-better looks and a decent sales pitch to make mad bank in Waikiki without ever performing anything sexier than a handjob with her top off.

But going after those girls, and the guys who are willing to pay for those handjobs, and calling yourself a champion in the fight against "human trafficking" is extraordinarily low. It's an insult to the poor souls who right this minute are in holding cells somewhere.

In an organization built on lies there are two types of members. The upper management, or "liars." And the rank-and-file, or "suckers." Trying to talk reasonably to either group is pointless. The organizers have their own agendas, one of the most common being "let's keep the fight going so I can keep getting paid tax-free." And they've doped their often well-meaning, hard-working and painfully naive foot soldiers with an industrial-strength version of the sales pitch in order to keep them in line.

If their cause had anything at all to do with human trafficking, they'd have signed up for law enforcement. These are puritanical prostitution abolitionists, pure and simple.

Lahainawhaler
03-29-11, 04:12
I don't want to draw attention from PASS or the media to this or any other forum. If anyone does write to anyone I would suggest a letter to the editor at either the Weekly or the S-A. Don't copy anything from anything anyone has written online since it can be easily searched for and found. And I mean a total rewrite, don't reuse so much as a phrase.

The cops naturally read everything here, and this is one of the safer topics to be on since we're discussing social issues. But 99 percent of review sites are pretty filthy and all PASS would have to do is say "look at how disgusting these men are" to totally invalidate any points that are made.

As for writing to PASS, I admire your faith in human nature and good will, but I don't think it would accomplish anything beyond drawing their attention to the clientele. I truly think we are irredeemably evil in their view. And since I don't expect any of you want to go on camera any more than me, we would be unable to defend our points and possibly make something like "online john club" a household phrase next to "craigslist killer." Everything creepy is somehow worse when you add an online element to it. Good points, brother. Thanks for your suggestions.

Johnny14
03-29-11, 16:37
I hear that PASS is sponsored by one local church, whose members buy into the trafficking lies and the rescue work lies PASS tries to tell the world it does but actually does not do.What church is aligning with PASS?

P. A.A.S. is just another feminist movement looking for free media coverage played on mis-directed emotions when in fact they remain silent on more pressing issues in countries like Afghanistan where women are treated worse than dogs. As with the feminist movement in the 1960's, all that shouting in the West, yet none had the guts to go to these Muslin countries and voice their opinions.

Yet these same feminists were all too happy to go after our servicemen who risked their lives, some of which cannot legally drink because of age, yet when they go on liberty for female companionship, these same feminists attack and call it exploitation. I would agree that child predators are one of the worst scum and they should be shot, but putting our armed forces who are in a constant stressful unnatural environments and expecting them to be civil by those hypercritical feminist ones sitting in some safe far away, air conditioned rooms with manicured toe-nails attacking them for wanting female contact is beyond comprehension!

All commanders know this as a fact but remain neutral for fear of "political correctness" in part because of feminists and spineless politicians.

I've known many armed servicemen on extended deployments away from family and friends having other relationships overseas, some are financially supporting their "extended" families, the majority is not exploitative as these feminists of PASS seem to portray them as. Maybe we should make these feminists walk point in Afghanistan and see what's its like getting shot at rather than worrying if she (he?) has the batteries fully charged in her vibrator?

Hornyhaole
03-29-11, 23:29
What church is aligning with PASS?

P. AmS. Is just another feminist movement looking for free media coverage played on mis-directed emotions when in fact they remain silent on more pressing issues in countries like Afghanistan where women are treated worse than dogs. As with the feminist movement in the 1960's, all that shouting in the West, yet none had the guts to go to these Muslin countries and voice their opinions. This might be entirely futile, but I'm still going to urge you and everyone to not give into the temptation to start skiing down the slippery slope from broad generalization to demonization to calling for people to be literally shot.

Xian is a loony apostle of Andrea Dworkin, and her followers are either more loonies or dupes. They are not typical feminists or liberals any more than the members of the Westboro Baptist Church are typical Baptists, Christians or conservatives. Or humans, for that matter. And thank goodness for all of that. If they were typical then we'd be living in the Mirror Universe where everything we know to be good is evil and vice versa, and most of us would have goatees. And I don't look good with facial hair.

In fact these two groups are so far out on the political fringe they're indistinguishable. They exist in the political wastelands 180 degrees around the circle from the light of Good and Reasonable in the darkness of Evil and Crazy.

I'm a liberal and I'm a feminist. That's how I was raised. My parents instilled their values in me, one of which is freedom to choose one's way in the world. Neither of them believe prostitution should be a crime, though I have no doubt that if they knew about me they'd prefer I wasn't indulging due to the cost and the legal risks. All of my friends or family who have other views similar to mine would agree on this point as well.

So the bottom line for this liberal feminist monger is that I like sex with women, and I don't see a moral problem with fairly compensating a woman for her time. I also support our troops, and agree that a serviceman on leave deserves some private time with a willing woman. And if the only way he can get that is by compensating her financially, then what's the problem with that? He has fun, she gets paid, everybody wins.

This isn't the 1960s or 1970s when the majority views on both sides of the sexual role divide were much more heated and frankly stupider. It's been over 30 years since the troops returning from Vietnam were greeted with jeers, and it was a horrible thing that those misguided idiots did. That sort of reaction has mostly died out now and I encourage everyone to resist going back to it.

Or else you'll find yourself sharing a campfire with PASS and the Westboro Baptist Church. And probably working on a goatee.

First Try
03-31-11, 14:44
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/119005634.html

Punsai69
03-31-11, 17:59
What you guys think? Can?

http://hosted2.ap.org/HIHON/35a33e0a3d804e0fb770fa1f818a627c/Article_2011-03-31-Fake%20Massage%20Parlor%20Inspector / I'd-135c190856de4aceb5e960f53caf2978

Honolulu1
03-31-11, 21:27
NEWPORT BEACH, Calif. (AP) — A California man is charged with demanding a rubdown and $200 while pretending to be a massage parlor inspector.

Orange County prosecutors charged Edward Justin LaPorte with felony burglary and misdemeanor counts of impersonating a peace officer and firearm violations. The 47-year-old faces arraignment Friday in Newport Beach.

Investigators say LaPorte is a former police officer from Illinois. They say he was wearing a badge when he entered the Golden Spa massage parlor in Lake Forest on Jan. 31 and told the manager he was investigating a complaint.

Prosecutors say he then complained of back pain, and a masseuse gave him a back rub before LaPorte asked for a frontal massage, which was refused.

No phone listing could be found for LaPorte and court records don't list an attorney for him.

Johnny14
03-31-11, 21:41
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/119005634.html

Somebody didn't get paid off enough at Saigon Passion II. Why is HPD going after petty "crimes" that really has very little financial or social impact on the general population? When in fact such sexual favors are between consenting adults in a private setting not in public next to a shopping mall in full view of the public.

There are much bigger crimes that have major financial impact on the entire population of Hawaii, like how sleazy and corrupt this massive $10 billion dollar rail is beginning to reveal. Why is HPD not going after this instead of some really small time activity at the bars? Then of course we know how the special white collar crime section got shut down when HPD was getting too close in "pulling the pants down" on the former City of Honolulu Mayor Jerremy Harris.

It wasn't entirely the fault of the then Chief, but remember when Harris said "he'll spill the beans on everyone else if he gets arrested", for some reason after that, we never heard anything from the media, sounds rather strange indeed? It is these big shots that hide in the dark that needs to be investigated, not some small time customer in the darken bars of Honolulu.

Oldee
03-31-11, 23:59
Somebody didn't get paid off enough at Saigon Passion II. Why is HPD going after petty "crimes" that really has very little financial or social impact on the general population? When in fact such sexual favors are between consenting adults in a private setting not in public next to a shopping mall in full view of the public.

There are much bigger crimes that have major financial impact on the entire population of Hawaii, like how sleazy and corrupt this massive $10 billion dollar rail is beginning to reveal. Why is HPD not going after this instead of some really small time activity at the bars? Then of course we know how the special white collar crime section got shut down when HPD was getting too close in "pulling the pants down" on the former City of Honolulu Mayor Jerremy Harris.

It wasn't entirely the fault of the then Chief, but remember when Harris said "he'll spill the beans on everyone else if he gets arrested", for some reason after that, we never heard anything from the media, sounds rather strange indeed? It is these big shots that hide in the dark that needs to be investigated, not some small time customer in the darken bars of Honolulu.Agree. Our ONLY recourse is to vote the polititans out be sadly most guys don't vote. Same ole same ole.

Hornyhaole
04-01-11, 00:41
Somebody didn't get paid off enough at Saigon Passion II. Why is HPD going after petty "crimes" that really has very little financial or social impact on the general population? When in fact such sexual favors are between consenting adults in a private setting not in public next to a shopping mall in full view of the public.Whether or not someone didn't get paid off, this is the job of the vice unit. Which is to say keeping the sex trade under the radar enough that it doesn't bother "moral guardians" so much that it draws attention. One bust like that can help relieve public anxiety enough that they will stop worrying about it for a while.

I genuinely believe that most cops prefer to go after actual bad guys, but being limited in the methods at their disposal they take what they can get. Just as I suspect that Elliot Ness didn't give a fig personally about bootlegging he went after Capone for being a mass murderer by proxy (and because it was his duty). But he couldn't bust him for either and settled for tax evasion.

So while prostitution is not inherently harmful, it's a great temptation for impatient criminals to indulge in. And it is an inherently "sloppy" and open criminal profession. You don't see any web sites devoted to drug sales or reviewing different dealers for instance. It's easy for cops to infiltrate and thereby keep track of of other kinds of criminal dealings.

So if they bust a place where the girls are giving blowjobs the odds are good it was because of one of the following reasons:

* The place was getting well-known enough that someone complained.

* It was a periodic bust to remind all club owners of what will and won't be tolerated.

* The cops are investigating other things there.

* Someone didn't get paid off.

John Ross
04-01-11, 01:51
Whether or not someone didn't get paid off, this is the job of the vice unit. Which is to say keeping the sex trade under the radar enough that it doesn't bother "moral guardians" so much that it draws attention. One bust like that can help relieve public anxiety enough that they will stop worrying about it for a while.

I genuinely believe that most cops prefer to go after actual bad guys, but being limited in the methods at their disposal they take what they can get. Just as I suspect that Elliot Ness didn't give a fig personally about bootlegging he went after Capone for being a mass murderer by proxy (and because it was his duty). But he couldn't bust him for either and settled for tax evasion.

So while prostitution is not inherently harmful, it's a great temptation for impatient criminals to indulge in. And it is an inherently "sloppy" and open criminal profession. You don't see any web sites devoted to drug sales or reviewing different dealers for instance. It's easy for cops to infiltrate and thereby keep track of of other kinds of criminal dealings.

So if they bust a place where the girls are giving blowjobs the odds are good it was because of one of the following reasons:

* The place was getting well-known enough that someone complained.

* It was a periodic bust to remind all club owners of what will and won't be tolerated.

* The cops are investigating other things there.

* Someone didn't get paid off. One bust to appease the powers that be. My friends used to tell me when they went on a raid of the chicken fights, they just take in a few to keep the politicians happy. In speaking to a friend that used to run those fights, he told me the same thing.

Strong Mojo
04-01-11, 10:32
I believe that they just arrest a few because it's only those that get caught with the gaff.


One bust to appease the powers that be. My friends used to tell me when they went on a raid of the chicken fights, they just take in a few to keep the politicians happy. In speaking to a friend that used to run those fights, he told me the same thing.

Hornyhaole
04-01-11, 13:59
I believe that they just arrest a few because it's only those that get caught with the gaff.One definition of everything the police do is "keeping the politicians happy." That's who their bosses work for.

Hypo Luxa
04-01-11, 14:58
I believe that they just arrest a few because it's only those that get caught with the gaff.I'd like to see anyone running these things, entering birds, and even those who bet on them thrust into a ring with metal spikes on their fists to duke it out to the death.

Sorry, I've done volunteer work for animals shelters over the years and this sickens me.

Hornyhaole
04-01-11, 18:53
I'd like to see anyone running these things, entering birds, and even those who bet on them thrust into a ring with metal spikes on their fists to duke it out to the death.

Sorry, I've done volunteer work for animals shelters over the years and this sickens me. Right there with you. But I too know people who are into this so I just have to avoid the topic with them.

Ocolumbo
04-04-11, 20:10
My source informs me the church is Blue Water Mission.


What church is aligning with PASS?

P. AmS. Is just another feminist movement looking for free media coverage played on mis-directed emotions when in fact they remain silent on more pressing issues in countries like Afghanistan where women are treated worse than dogs. As with the feminist movement in the 1960's, all that shouting in the West, yet none had the guts to go to these Muslin countries and voice their opinions.

Yet these same feminists were all too happy to go after our servicemen who risked their lives, some of which cannot legally drink because of age, yet when they go on liberty for female companionship, these same feminists attack and call it exploitation. I would agree that child predators are one of the worst scum and they should be shot, but putting our armed forces who are in a constant stressful unnatural environments and expecting them to be civil by those hypercritical feminist ones sitting in some safe far away, air conditioned rooms with manicured toe-nails attacking them for wanting female contact is beyond comprehension!

All commanders know this as a fact but remain neutral for fear of "political correctness" in part because of feminists and spineless politicians.

I've known many armed servicemen on extended deployments away from family and friends having other relationships overseas, some are financially supporting their "extended" families, the majority is not exploitative as these feminists of PASS seem to portray them as. Maybe we should make these feminists walk point in Afghanistan and see what's its like getting shot at rather than worrying if she (he?) has the batteries fully charged in her vibrator?

Asstro
04-06-11, 19:44
AOL news and Hawaii News Now link. 5 Johns were arrested Monday night for soliciting in undercover sting, South St and Pohukaina Street. Worst thing about it are the photos and names of the five clearly posted. Could have been me or you!

Kurocha
04-06-11, 21:05
A regular Hawaii golfing buddy and Punahou School friend of President Barack Obama was among four people arrested during a prostitution sting operation in Kakaako by Honolulu police Monday night.

Waialua resident Robert Richard "Bobby" Titcomb. 49, was arrested at South and Pohukaina streets at 9:40 pm Monday.

Titcomb was charged with prostitution and released after posting $500 bail at 11 pm.

Titcomb was one of four men were arrested in a 'reverse sting'&8200; targeting prostitution customers. HPD&8200; declined to give specifics about the location or with other details about the operation.

The president last played golf with Titcomb during the first family's most recent holiday vacation over Christmas and New Year's. On Dec. 30, 2010 the president and his family spent the day at Titcomb's beachfront hom in Waialua, where they ate barbecue, played volleyball and hung out on the beach.

Titcomb is a 1980 graduate of Punahou School, from which Obama graduated in 1979.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/119366694.html

BJ Hawaii
04-06-11, 21:17
A regular Hawaii golfing buddy and Punahou School friend of President Barack Obama was among four people arrested during a prostitution sting operation in Kakaako by Honolulu police Monday night.

Waialua resident Robert Richard "Bobby" Titcomb. 49, was arrested at South and Pohukaina streets at 9:40 pm Monday.

Titcomb was charged with prostitution and released after posting $500 bail at 11 pm.

Titcomb was one of four men were arrested in a 'reverse sting'&8200; targeting prostitution customers. HPD&8200; declined to give specifics about the location or with other details about the operation.

The president last played golf with Titcomb during the first family's most recent holiday vacation over Christmas and New Year's. On Dec. 30, 2010 the president and his family spent the day at Titcomb's beachfront hom in Waialua, where they ate barbecue, played volleyball and hung out on the beach.

Titcomb is a 1980 graduate of Punahou School, from which Obama graduated in 1979.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/119366694.html

That's an unusual location.

The intersection has Waterfront Towers (luxury condo) and Restaurant Row on the makai side and the Judiciary parking structure and that big open lot where they hold the food truck parties on the mauka side.

Never heard of SW there and I don't think there is an AMP there either.

Buck N Ham
04-06-11, 21:44
The president last played golf with Titcomb during the first family's most recent holiday vacation over Christmas and New Year's. On Dec. 30, 2010 the president and his family spent the day at Titcomb's beachfront home in Waialua, where they ate barbecue, played volleyball and hung out on the beach.

It looks like the Obama guest list will be short by one come the President's next Christmas visit. This is a sad story.

Hypo Luxa
04-06-11, 21:51
AWaialua resident Robert Richard "Bobby" Titcomb. 49, was arrested at South and Pohukaina streets at 9:40 pm Monday.WHOA! I was at Exotic Nights AT THAT TIME on Monday. Glad the po-po didn't come in to EN and see me getting a HJ from Anna Banana (her name) with my FIV.

Seriously though, this guy's life is RUINED. Some of us could probably bounce back from this. But this report will undoubtably make national news. Most certainly it'll make FoxNews.

Glad the police are going after the REAL criminals, sheesh!

H Mobius
04-06-11, 22:00
That's an unusual location.

The intersection has Waterfront Towers (luxury condo) and Restaurant Row on the makai side and the Judiciary parking structure and that big open lot where they hold the food truck parties on the mauka side.

Never heard of SW there and I don't think there is an AMP there either. Seems when girls get busted, they move further and further Diamond Head. That area is a little dark and has that big parking lot that BJ mentioned in the vicinity.

Starfox64
04-06-11, 22:08
You all beat me to the punch.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=14398306

Here is the link if anyone wants to read the full article.

Hehe. Now I want to cruise by to see if there are any SW's in that area if I get bored one night.

Also just a thought. The intersection reported may be where he got arrested and not where he picked the undercover up. Maybe he picked her up on hotel street and they are actually saving him some face.

Eastsidesurfa
04-06-11, 22:14
Anyone know what "fake agency" they used?


WHOA! I was at Exotic Nights AT THAT TIME on Monday. Glad the po-po didn't come in to EN and see me getting a HJ from Anna Banana (her name) with my FIV.

Seriously though, this guy's life is RUINED. Some of us could probably bounce back from this. But this report will undoubtably make national news. Most certainly it'll make FoxNews.

Glad the police are going after the REAL criminals, sheesh!

Relax808
04-06-11, 22:41
WHOA! I was at Exotic Nights AT THAT TIME on Monday. Glad the po-po didn't come in to EN and see me getting a HJ from Anna Banana (her name) with my FIV.

Seriously though, this guy's life is RUINED. Some of us could probably bounce back from this. But this report will undoubtably make national news. Most certainly it'll make FoxNews.

Glad the police are going after the REAL criminals, sheesh! Http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/119366694.html

Woa when did LE start targeting us. Where was this. Supposed to get massage tomorrow, should I cxl?

Subway45
04-07-11, 00:21
President Obama's close friend arrested during prostitution sting.

Posted: Apr 06, 2011 12:50 PM

Updated: Apr 06, 2011 4:45 PM

Minna Sugimoto. Bio | email.

HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow). One of President Obama's closest friends is scheduled to appear at Honolulu District Court next month, after he allegedly solicited sex from an undercover officer.

Police arrested Robert Richard Titcomb. 49, of Waialua on suspicion of prostitution Monday night.

Bobby Titcomb and President Obama have been close friends since their childhood days at Punahou School. The two are frequently seen on the news golfing, playing basketball and dining together when the Obama family vacations in Hawaii.

But the President's pal is now making news for a different reason. His arrest during a prostitution sting in Downtown Honolulu.

"After every sting, when you find out who the people are, you're always surprised that they're school teachers or other people in the community or well-known people," Frank Lavoie, former Downtown Neighborhood Board chair, said."Nothing goes by us now. We believe anything."

Police say the suspect showed up at the intersection of South Street and Pohukaina Street Monday night to meet an escort from an online service. Titcomb allegedly offered to pay the escort, who was actually an undercover officer, $100 for sex.

It's what police call a "reverse sting". An operation designed to net Johns instead of prostitutes.

"Prostitutes obviously are committing crimes, but some of them are victims as well," Lavoie said."So we want to stop the Johns from giving them business."

Also arrested on suspicion of prostitution at the same location Monday night were Joseph C. Chavez. 48, Jon M. Hatakenaka. 51, and Todd T. Shirai. 46.

HPD has been conducting prostitution stings in the Downtown Honolulu area in response to community complaints.

"It's one of the major issues," Lavoie said."Every month at neighborhood board meetings, we always talk to the police about the prostitution. Lots of time it's near schools. It's where people live in residences. It's really a quality of life issue."

Titcomb, Chavez and Shirai were released from police custody after each posting $500 bail. Hatakenaka is free after posting $1, 000 bail. The four suspects are due in court May 2.

"I'm just glad the police are doing their job," Lavoie said."Hopefully, the Legislature will continue looking at more legislation to help us solve the problem."

The maximum punishment for prostitution as a petty misdemeanor is 30 days in jail and a $500 fine.

Titcomb had no comment when reached by Hawaii News Now. There was no immediate response from the White House.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=14398306

Head Lock
04-07-11, 00:21
Also just a thought. The intersection reported may be where he got arrested and not where he picked the undercover up. Maybe he picked her up on hotel street and they are actually saving him some face.The evening news (Hawaii News Now) said he made arrangements via an online service. Doesn't sound like a street pickup.

H Mobius
04-07-11, 00:27
The evening news (Hawaii News Now) said he made arrangements via an online service. Doesn't sound like a street pickup.According to the article link provided by Subway45 and Starfox64 (which mirror the tv report), he allegedly offered the undercover $100 for sex upon meeting on the street after the initial online response.

Too bad he didn't have access to the "22 Rules for Street Mongering"; it would have kept him from making a 'fatal' error.

Hornyhaole
04-07-11, 08:31
Anything people don't like is somehow creepier when you add an online element to it.

http//www.usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?7514-News-and-Media-Reports&p=1164184&viewfull=1#post1164184

Hornyhaole
04-07-11, 08:33
Http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/119366694.html

Woa when did LE start targeting us. They always have.

Niceguy808
04-07-11, 09:53
AOL news and Hawaii News Now link. 5 Johns were arrested Monday night for soliciting in undercover sting, South St and Pohukaina Street. Worst thing about it are the photos and names of the five clearly posted. Could have been me or you!


The pics were removed from the news article, but have been posted on PASS' website.

http://www.traffickjamming.org/press.html#2011

First Try
04-07-11, 14:02
The pics were removed from the news article, but have been posted on PASS' website.

http://www.traffickjamming.org/press.html#2011

They have clear photos of establishments & have time to make phone calls & do research. Very motivated.

Buck N Ham
04-07-11, 14:49
Seriously though, this guy's life is RUINED. Some of us could probably bounce back from this. But this report will undoubtably make national news. Most certainly it'll make FoxNews.

I agree with you HL and am sad for him. My guess is that he did well professionally and his profile went up tremendously after Barry got into office. After this, his credibility is shot. And depending on his profession, conducting business in Hawaii will be extremely difficult. If he's married and they have children, wow, talk about shame. How do you protect your wife and kids from the humility they will face over the few days, weeks or months? How do you explain to them what you did and why you did it?

In a lot of ways, I consider myself lucky. Be safe all.

B

Dogdoy
04-07-11, 16:44
Too bad he didn't have access to the "22 Rules for Street Mongering"; it would have kept him from making a 'fatal' error.Yeah, too bad he was an amateur monger. I wonder if he contacted the mole on BP. We all better play it safer. Even the AMPs aren't completely safe from LE. I might just revert back to guaranteed providers who I know or who have good reviews on another site and this board. I don't see how we can get busted if we're really cautious. Even VG has never been busted so would be safe bet to deal with that agency also.

Punsai69
04-07-11, 18:57
I agree with you HL and am sad for him. My guess is that he did well professionally and his profile went up tremendously after Barry got into office. After this, his credibility is shot. And depending on his profession, conducting business in Hawaii will be extremely difficult. If he's married and they have children, wow, talk about shame. How do you protect your wife and kids from the humility they will face over the few days, weeks or months? How do you explain to them what you did and why you did it?

In a lot of ways, I consider myself lucky. Be safe all.

BI also feel sorry for the other guys who got caught that same night. Their picture and names wouldn't have made the news if it wasn't for Titcomb being caught. Bummer!

T6650
04-07-11, 18:59
The recent furor over the arrest of Titcomb points to changes to expect from potential new "john" laws and attitudes in Honolulu Hale with a prosecutor as mayor.

Connections via Craigslist and Backpage will be increasingly dangerous to mongers. Only repeat posters who have been reviewed (somebody has to be first) should be considered safe.

All should expect more sting operations involving street activity DT.

AMPs will remain the safest way to monger. First a sting would be essentially impossible. It would require an undercover policewoman (first or 1 1/2 generation?) to be hired by a Korean MS and have her service at least one client before an arrest could be made. The MS in fact shields us from LE. Any other arrest would require recording of either discussion of funds and / or the actual deed. To do this would require a judge to approve bugging the establishment, highly unlikely. Many years ago, I was in the old PT when LE came in, female cops, undercovers in ski masks, the whole deal. I had my pants on by the time they came in the room and they just told me to stay where I was. They left without arresting anyone as the girl they came for was not there.

I'm not sure they could arrest you even if you were engaged in sex. They have to observe a discussion of or an exchange of funds. This is why wiser AMP girls never ask for or discuss the tip. They risk getting stiffed by assholes but they also avoid successful prosecution even if they get arrested.

The politically based danger is if LE decides to start making arrests that they know will not lead to successful prosecution. They could do this for a while to harass clients but after a while judges would start to get on their case. Personally I suspect that most of the time LE looks the other way on AMPs because they have a much lower public profile than street prostitution.

Buck N Ham
04-07-11, 20:58
I also feel sorry for the other guys who got caught that same night. Their picture and names wouldn't have made the news if it wasn't for Titcomb being caught. Bummer!Good point. Luckily. Actually hopefully. The media attention they get will be limited to local news unlike Titcomb who made national headlines on CNN and USA Today. My sentiments go out to other three guys too.

Member #3973
04-07-11, 21:36
AOL news and Hawaii News Now link. 5 Johns were arrested Monday night for soliciting in undercover sting, South St and Pohukaina Street. Worst thing about it are the photos and names of the five clearly posted. Could have been me or you!Great that they caught those 4 long wanted hardened criminals and got them off our streets for an hour and a half. I feel so much safer. Thank God for HPD.

And it is also good news for local attorneys who get paid to defend them in court, and, if lucky get to handle a couple of divorce cases. Very productive and beneficial indeed!

Davidonecall
04-07-11, 22:01
The pics were removed from the news article, but have been posted on PASS' website.

http://www.traffickjamming.org/press.html#2011

I know this could happen to any one of us but the only reason it hit the media and will continued for a bit is because of one of the hobbies being a friend of the President. Totally not right. Let's be safe out there.

Relax808
04-07-11, 22:42
I know this could happen to any one of us but the only reason it hit the media and will continued for a bit is because of one of the hobbies being a friend of the President. Totally not right. Let's be safe out there.Is this a fate that awaits us all ooo be very careful fellow mongers!

Oioman
04-08-11, 00:04
I feel for the guys that just got busted. It could have happened to anyone of us. Its one of the reasons I don't try to hook up with SW. Even the BP gets me a little worried. The few times I made a contact on BP, either the picture wasn't of the girl or they were flaky. Same with Craigslist. I agree with the AMP rout. You might not get what you want, but it seems a much safer rout and you have selection to choose from and even then if nothing is good you can check out another AMP. Sort of like shopping. Be safe.

Alohas

Pok Gai
04-08-11, 01:32
Good point. Luckily. Actually hopefully. The media attention they get will be limited to local news unlike Titcomb who made national headlines on CNN and USA Today. My sentiments go out to other three guys too.Wow. It made national news? LOL man I don't watch the news, get the newspaper. I only read about stuff when I'm on FB. Hell, I heard of this story here. Wonder when it's safe to pop my head out! Only got 2 more months to play

Kukui Street
04-08-11, 01:38
Is this a fate that awaits us all ooo be very careful fellow mongers!What does everyone think and I'll keep it short. Ok, I have read only a couple of on-line articles.

Do you think he first contacted her from a web site or a posting on CL or some other site? From the reports

sounds like a web site. (This is interesting) Would you meet on the street from a web site positng? (Almost every personal web site I have seen is to go to the providers place. Vs. a CL/BP ad posting? Is there a difference?

News says downtown but I think Kakaako which I never considered part of Downtown. Is this a pick up area? I have never read a post on this area near Restaurant Row.

What can we learn from this? The way it was posted? The whole process of making contact and meeting setup?

That consensual crimes (entrapment, as no crime was committed. Intent? That is bullshit, sound like the Tom Cruise film Minority Report, arrested before a crime is committed) are still be pursued in the 21 century. I wonder how much money, time, and resources was spent to nab these 4-5 guys while tourist are still being molested on a regular basis in Waikiki. My business would come crashing down if I used my best judgement the way law enforcement does. Is your community safer.

How many of those LE, reading this now, can say that they have never been to a MP? And you know who you are!

Jzjz
04-08-11, 02:38
What does everyone think and I'll keep it short. Sting stinks. Entraping local guys is manini stuff. Why not go after pimps in Waikiki? Its easy to find them since they stand across the street from the hos on mauka side of Kuhio. I'm not racist, but the papolo pimps stand out like a sore thumb. Why not go after them? Cuz HPD and polatitions are chicken shet. Its easy to go after small johns, but takes real brains and balls to go after da orgainzers of da crimes.

These are the guys who are involved in human slave trade. PASS and prosacuter mayor should focus on these guys, not the manini local guys. One pimp shot another behind Longs. Go after them and publish there names and mug shot in the Star Advertiser. These are da guys driving prices up and making girls live in fear.

Or target the hos in Waiks. HPD lets prostatution go on right in front of there eyes on Kuhio Ave every nite from 10pm-2am. Hos are so obvious and they target tourists. Hassle waiks hos, piss off pimps, and nail um. Locals don't like them either. There prices are high and performance low. Choke HPD cruz Kuhio all nite in da red lite zone making sure drunk tourists coming out of bars and clubs dont get too stupid. They see Waiks hos right in front of them all nite, but dont do shet.

Its a shame the four guys were entraped and publicly humiliated with names, mug shots, and headlines with Prostitution and Obama to grab attention. Innocent until proven guilty, but there shame is already dealt.

Does this stop mongers? NO. Mongers will just be more careful and stick to their regulers. Mongers always suspiciius of BP out of towners for poor performance and rip off rates anyways. Guys will just be more suspicius of out of towners and stick with their reg AMPs, SW,

I used to preach JZJZ fo Mayor! During election time, but man I wish I was running the show. Jz would focus on pimps, Waiks hos, make PASS happy, and drive prices down for the locals.

Davidonecall
04-08-11, 02:39
Is this a fate that awaits us all ooo be very careful fellow mongers!I hope not. I will continued to be careful. The thing is you don't know who is going to betrayed you. The provider, the SW or your fellow hobbies that you help out.

Member #4163
04-08-11, 02:50
If only there was a way to find out where they looked or what numbers they called. I like to use the net as a resource of not only intel but to shop. So far it has been ok to me and have had more good or ok experiences than bad or scary ones. Make me wonder like some of you say, the out of town phone numbers usually lead to poor service providers that use fake or old pics but do you guys think hpd will have say a 702 area coded phone? All in all just food for thought, as always remember the mongering rules and do your homework.

Be safe all.

Phil-

Hawaiian Nono
04-08-11, 03:42
Hope it is not anyone from the forum that took the bust.

Dogdoy
04-08-11, 03:56
Check out this BS:

http://www.kitv.com/news/27473617/detail.html

Memahu
04-08-11, 04:09
I hear that PASS is sponsored by one local church, whose members buy into the trafficking lies and the rescue work lies PASS tries to tell the world it does but actually does not do.What's the difference between PASS and a pickpocket?

A pickpocket snatches watches.

PASS watches snatches.

Blake123
04-08-11, 04:48
Sting stinks. Entraping local guys is manini stuff. Why not go after pimps in Waikiki? Its easy to find them since they stand across the street from the hos on mauka side of Kuhio. I'm not racist, but the papolo pimps stand out like a sore thumb. Why not go after them? Because HPD and polatitions are chicken shet. Its easy to go after small johns, but takes real brains and balls to go after the orgainzers of the crimes.

These are the guys who are involved in human slave trade. PASS and prosacuter mayor should focus on these guys, not the manini local guys. One pimp shot another behind Longs. Go after them and publish there names and mug shot in the Star Advertiser. These are the guys driving prices up and making girls live in fear.

Or target the hos in Waiks. HPD lets prostatution go on right in front of there eyes on Kuhio Ave every nite from 10pm-2am. Hos are so obvious and they target tourists. Hassle waiks hos, piss off pimps, and nail um. Locals don't like them either. There prices are high and performance low. Choke HPD cruz Kuhio all nite in the red lite zone making sure drunk tourists coming out of bars and clubs don't get too stupid. They see Waiks hos right in front of them all nite, but don't do shet.

Well said. Exactly my thoughts. Go after the fucking pimps. BTW, I wonder how many REAL crimes were being committed in Honolulu during the sting.

Searchin9
04-08-11, 05:00
There was a segment on Bobby Titcomb arrest and his connection with President Obama on Inside Edition tonight. Big national news.

Buck N Ham
04-08-11, 06:10
There was a segment on Bobby Titcomb arrest and his connection with President Obama on Inside Edition tonight. Big national news.Now that's a punch in the stomach. I feel for his family more than I do him at this point. Lets hope this dies down soon so the healing process can begin.

Buck N Ham
04-08-11, 06:24
Wow. It made national news? LOL man I don't watch the news, get the newspaper. I only read about stuff when I'm on FB. Hell, I heard of this story here. Wonder when it's safe to pop my head out! Only got 2 more months to playNot only national but I saw the story on a UK news website about the President's "friend" in a sting.

Curious, during his run for President, Obama and his campaign advisors made a strategic decision to directly address the hateful comments made by his Pastor and as as result, eventually distanced himself from him. Now that he's President, what does he do about his friend's illegal and immoral indiscretions? I know Wright and Titcomb are different in terms of public stature and presence but does the Obama Administration keep quiet and hope this goes away quietly. Especially after all the press this story has received globally?

Otis C1
04-08-11, 07:14
What does everyone think and I'll keep it short. Ok, I have read only a couple of on-line articles.

Do you think he first contacted her from a web site or a posting on CL or some other site? From the reports.

Sounds like a web site. (This is interesting) Would you meet on the street from a web site positng? (Almost every personal web site I have seen is to go to the providers place. Vs. A CL / BP ad posting? Is there a difference?

News says downtown but I think Kakaako which I never considered part of Downtown. Is this a pick up area? I have never read a post on this area near Restaurant Row.

What can we learn from this? The way it was posted? The whole process of making contact and meeting setup?

That consensual crimes (entrapment, as no crime was committed. Intent? That is bullshit, sound like the Tom Cruise film Minority Report, arrested before a crime is committed) are still be pursued in the 21 century. I wonder how much money, time, and resources was spent to nab these 4-5 guys while tourist are still being molested on a regular basis in Waikiki. My business would come crashing down if I used my best judgement the way law enforcement does. Is your community safer.

How many of those LE, reading this now, can say that they have never been to a MP? And you know who you are! Sorry bro, but if you discuss money with the "suspect provider", you are guilty of intent. In the article, it mentioned Mr. Titcomb did agree to pay $ for sex. That is the definition of intent.

That's why you see ads in BP that say you are paying for the providers time only or they use the euphemism donation. The sad thing is, is that Mr. Titcomb did not have this forum to fall back on for the rules to mongering. It also looks like he's not a regular monger like most of us on the forum.

As for your last statement, the PD is not a business nor are they a preventative but rather a reactionary force. As for the Waikiki providers, they do service quite a few out of towners who don't know any better and it would be hard to prosecute those Johns when they will leave a few days after they get busted so what's the point. Right now I am talking about the John Law and not catching providers. Don't really know a solution to our dilemma, other than to be extra careful as some other brothers have pointed out. Stay away from ads that look too good to be true. Avoid the new ads from out of town talent and stick with your regulars and past providers that you have heard of on these threads. In other words, ride this storm out as this whole mess will eventually pass. Correction not P. A. S. S. Blow over. Be safe keep your eyes open and stick to this forum Oh

Virtua Stick
04-08-11, 11:33
I know this could happen to any one of us but the only reason it hit the media and will continued for a bit is because of one of the hobbies being a friend of the President. Totally not right. Let's be safe out there.Worse if it were me as I too am friends with the President! But I ain't stupid.

B Safe.

VS

CM0069
04-08-11, 12:01
What's the difference between PASS and a pickpocket?

A pickpocket snatches watches.

PASS watches snatches.Obviously. KathrynxXian in the interview is a lesbian, so that is not new.

H Mobius
04-08-11, 12:43
I'm not sure they could arrest you even if you were engaged in sex. They have to observe a discussion of or an exchange of funds. This is why wiser AMP girls never ask for or discuss the tip. They risk getting stiffed by assholes but they also avoid successful prosecution even if they get arrested.1. One night I was in a hostess bar that got raided and the girl said she'd call her husband, who came right over. They were questioned separately and their stories didn't match; the officers knew just what questions to ask. The guy was in hot kim chee.

2. Someone told me he was driving with an SW in the car and was pulled over because (long story short) the officer thought they didn't look right. Same thing; stories didn't match and it wasn't pleasant (well I suppose as soon as the blue lights come on it's not pleasant already).

A while back I stumbled upon a lengthy post by someone who claimed to be a defense attorney; while I have no idea who he really is, the information/advice sounded plausible. Here is a piece:

3. The officer doesn't care if you're innocent. He'll let the courts prove him wrong.

So, I'm wondering if you are "engaged in sex" in a place of business (the kind you wouldn't tell your family, SO or her friends or family about) with one of their 'employees', wouldn't they arrest you (especially since most guys don't see the girl enough times to know her personally, and the 'stories won't match') even if you will be "released pending further investigation" just to teach you a lesson? Wouldn't they have probable cause? What do you think, CA?

On a side note, I think Brother Jz is exactly right. I've seen uniformed officers openly fraternizing with the girls over a period of years.

Niceguy808
04-08-11, 14:31
Like the article said, HPD does these stings on occasion, it wasn't just this one time.

I remember an article posted about the Downtown Neighborhood Watch group that patrols around Kukui St and its environs. One of their leaders wants to have the names of everyone arrested on a prostitution charge. Prostitutes, clients and pimps. Posted on the Internet, along with their pictures and maybe even their addresses. The article is an old one and nothing of that sort has been done since it was posted. I can't find the article itself, but PASS does post these things on their site already. However, PASS only post names and pics of johns or pimps, never the girls, since the girls are seen as "victims".

Whenever I've read articles about raids at strip clubs and girls were arrested on prostitution charges, all of the girls real names are posted. I remember when Centerfolds got raided some years ago and every single girl who got picked-up was named.

It's funny how LE will let this go for so long and then crackdown real hard on one day out of the year.

I wonder: if they started posting the names of everyone (clients, providers, pimps) arrested on solicitation charges, how many of us would stop or decrease our participation in the Hobby?

I like to think that I'm pretty careful. The few times I picked-up an SW, it was some one I'd seen out on the strip for a long time, never some one who was unfamiliar. Escorts were mostly those who had reviews already online and who had been around for a long time.

But, I admit that I've taken a few risks and they could have turned-out bad for me if HPD had chosen that moment to kick-in a door.

Otis C1
04-08-11, 14:59
1. One night I was in a hostess bar that got raided and the girl said she'd call her husband, who came right over. They were questioned separately and their stories didn't match; the officers knew just what questions to ask. The guy was in hot kim chee.

2. Someone told me he was driving with an SW in the car and was pulled over because (long story short) the officer thought they didn't look right. Same thing; stories didn't match and it wasn't pleasant (well I suppose as soon as the blue lights come on it's not pleasant already).

So, I'm wondering if you are "engaged in sex" in a place of business (the kind you wouldn't tell your family, SO or her friends or family about) with one of their 'employees', wouldn't they arrest you (especially since most guys don't see the girl enough times to know her personally, and the 'stories won't match') even if you will be "released pending further investigation" just to teach you a lesson? Wouldn't they have probable cause? What do you think, CA?

On a side note, I think Brother Jz is exactly right. I've seen uniformed officers openly fraternizing with the girls over a period of years. You see the mistake made in some of these situations is that the hobbyist didn't know how to use the magic words: DENY EVERYTHING! I got caught once red handed with the providers head bobbing in my lap swallowing my spunk. The cops pulled us out and separated the two of us. He asked if I gave the provider money and I said no. He kept insisting that the provider said she received money from me and I said she was lying. In the end he sent me packing told me not to let him catch me in town again. As I drove away, I saw the provider heading down the street. Funny thing was I actually told the truth. As it turned out I put the donation on my dash and the provider forgot to collect it! Oops!

The moral of this story when in doubt DENY, DENY, DENY! Monger safe Oh

Aloha2
04-08-11, 16:17
Hi guys,

Been checking out the forums as a lurker for about a month. Sorry first post has to be here! Here's how I think the sting went. BP or other internet add. Call from the monger. Brief chat, set standard two call system, with 2nd call from the area of the bust."good timing, I am just walking back from (enter location, the store, the restaurant, etc.) why don't you just pick me up at this intersection and I will walk you up to my place". Rookie mistake negotiating in the car on the street, because they probablyl didn't even have a fake incall location set up nearby. Just reinforces that in everything, the difference between success and epic failure is research and preparation.

Dogdoy
04-08-11, 17:04
I was watching Mananswers the other day and an attorney said, first of all, never discuss money for sex with a provider or SW. Next, ask her that you'll pay her to do a "top model nude photo shoot with you" because that's not an illegal activity. Then wait for her response. LE will refuse or usually walk away.

H Mobius
04-08-11, 20:52
You see the mistake made in some of these situations is that the hobbyist didn't know how to use the magic words: DENY EVERYTHING! I got caught once red handed with the providers head bobbing in my lap swallowing my spunk. The cops pulled us out and separated the two of us. He asked if I gave the provider money and I said no. He kept insisting that the provider said she received money from me and I said she was lying. In the end he sent me packing told me not to let him catch me in town again. As I drove away, I saw the provider heading down the street. Funny thing was I actually told the truth. As it turned out I put the donation on my dash and the provider forgot to collect it! Oops!

The moral of this story when in doubt DENY, DENY, DENY! Monger safe OhThanks for the input. Wow, you're a lucky fellow! In rereading my post, I think I should have used "answers" instead of "stories". I guess I used "stories" because the cops told the guy in the bar "You guy's stories no match!", although with the car date, they gave different answers such as for each other's names which was one of the first questions.

That would suck to get snagged about the girl's name, and the monger only knows her by her AMP name, for example "7", "Soda", "Million" or "Tomato".

Mahalos,

H M

Member #3973
04-08-11, 22:09
A lawyer friend once told me the #1 rule: Do NOT tell the police ANYTHING except your name and address or show an I'd. Tell them you take the 5th, and want a lawyer before you talk about anything else. If they can catch you in a lie,

They may have enough reason to arrest you. They are not idiots. If you are in an AMP having sex with a provider.

They are pretty sure it is P4P, but they have to get you or the girl to admit it. They are talking to get you to mention something that shows a law is violated so they have a reason for an arrest. They are not there to help you.

Waikikian
04-08-11, 23:38
President Obama's close friend arrested during prostitution sting.

Posted: Apr 06, 2011 12:50 PM

Updated: Apr 06, 2011 4:45 PM

Minna Sugimoto. Bio | email.

HONOLULU (HawaiiNewsNow). One of President Obama's closest friends is scheduled to appear at Honolulu District Court next month, after he allegedly solicited sex from an undercover officer.

Police arrested Robert Richard Titcomb. 49, of Waialua on suspicion of prostitution Monday night.

Bobby Titcomb and President Obama have been close friends since their childhood days at Punahou School. The two are frequently seen on the news golfing, playing basketball and dining together when the Obama family vacations in Hawaii.

But the President's pal is now making news for a different reason. His arrest during a prostitution sting in Downtown Honolulu.

"After every sting, when you find out who the people are, you're always surprised that they're school teachers or other people in the community or well-known people," Frank Lavoie, former Downtown Neighborhood Board chair, said."Nothing goes by us now. We believe anything."

Police say the suspect showed up at the intersection of South Street and Pohukaina Street Monday night to meet an escort from an online service. Titcomb allegedly offered to pay the escort, who was actually an undercover officer, $100 for sex.

It's what police call a "reverse sting". An operation designed to net Johns instead of prostitutes.

"Prostitutes obviously are committing crimes, but some of them are victims as well," Lavoie said."So we want to stop the Johns from giving them business."

Also arrested on suspicion of prostitution at the same location Monday night were Joseph C. Chavez. 48, Jon M. Hatakenaka. 51, and Todd T. Shirai. 46.

HPD has been conducting prostitution stings in the Downtown Honolulu area in response to community complaints.

"It's one of the major issues," Lavoie said."Every month at neighborhood board meetings, we always talk to the police about the prostitution. Lots of time it's near schools. It's where people live in residences. It's really a quality of life issue."

Titcomb, Chavez and Shirai were released from police custody after each posting $500 bail. Hatakenaka is free after posting $1, 000 bail. The four suspects are due in court May 2.

"I'm just glad the police are doing their job," Lavoie said."Hopefully, the Legislature will continue looking at more legislation to help us solve the problem."

The maximum punishment for prostitution as a petty misdemeanor is 30 days in jail and a $500 fine.

Titcomb had no comment when reached by Hawaii News Now. There was no immediate response from the White House.

http://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/Global/story.asp?S=14398306I'm sorry folks! But I don't buy any of this!

From the cop that raped the prostitute, to the Presidents friend that got arrested for solicitation!

Too many holes in these stories. If you ask me, the mayor has been a prosecutor for too long!

These stories are designed to scare the living sniaga out of all of us mongers!

I like that the prostitute was going to get her $100. 00 for a trick. And out of an agency, no less!

And no prostitute in her right mind is going to claim rape on a cop! Simply the cost of doing business.

Nope! I'm sorry guys! You've been "ROUSED"!

Tsunami69
04-09-11, 01:54
You see the mistake made in some of these situations is that the hobbyist didn't know how to use the magic words: DENY EVERYTHING! I got caught once red handed with the providers head bobbing in my lap swallowing my spunk. The cops pulled us out and separated the two of us. He asked if I gave the provider money and I said no. He kept insisting that the provider said she received money from me and I said she was lying. In the end he sent me packing told me not to let him catch me in town again. As I drove away, I saw the provider heading down the street. Funny thing was I actually told the truth. As it turned out I put the donation on my dash and the provider forgot to collect it! Oops!

The moral of this story when in doubt DENY, DENY, DENY! Monger safe OhPicked up a girl once near Long's and proceeded up to a location she suggested. She was sucking like a champ but my old okole just couldn't finish the deal for some reason. So she proceeded to talk dirty to me while I jacked off. Right when I thought I could finally finish a bright mag-light shines in the truck and an HPD officer is tapping on the passenger window. That's about as close to sh*tting my pants as I have ever come. He ask for my I'd and I showed it to him. He would not actually touch it and said,"I have no idea where your hands have been", so he made me hold it up as he wrote down my info.

Like Otis, he sent me packing with a stern warning. Said he knew about that spot because neighbors had complained. I wonder if he kinda got off on watching mongers before he busted them. The girl was a regular so also like Otis she had not collected any of my money yet. He told her to take a walk while he lectured me. Before that, for a moment we were both in the car while he called in my plates. She took what money she did have and stuffed it in her panties. Turns out this worked because he searched her purse and pockets. Anyways, even if we were having sex, I suppose it would be at most indecent exposure as we could have been 2 consenting adults. She told the cop she was just watching me jack off by myself and denied any money had or was suppose to have changed hands.

Way too close for comfort. But I agree, keep you pie hole shut. It can only lead to trouble for you.

Hypo Luxa
04-09-11, 04:40
Three years ago when I took Lani from EN to Kaimana Beach and did the deed there, she wanted to do it more privately in more positions so we went to my SUV and parked on some Kahala Street. When we were done, she looked out the windshield and said we're going to have to wait out a cop sitting down the block. She said she knew him as he had hassled before on the same streets. I was shitting my pants. Finally after about 10 or 15 minutes I guess, he rolled on. I hightailed it out of there!

Dogdoy
04-09-11, 07:04
12 years ago I was briefly dating Sonja McDaniel (1995 Penthouse Centerfold) when she was feature dancing at one of the strip bars (can't remember the name) on Kapiolani that had lap dancing. During her break we went to my car, which was parked in a vacant lot next door. We were making out and an officer in a cop car drove right next to my car and just kept staring at us. I stared back at him and he gave me the stink eye and took off really fast. Maybe he thought he was going bust me for soliciting a hooker or something but that was my one-and-only strange encounter with LE.

Johnordaily
04-09-11, 11:39
My LE experience (well, I've had many for things other than mongering, but this forum being what it is.) involved picking up a fave from DT back in the day and driving up to Papakolea to do the deed. I had just blown my load and she was still sitting on top of me when the dreaded Maglight and window tap came.

Rolled my window down and as I stammered,"Yes, officer?" the provider started pleading to the officer,"Please, please, please don't report us! My husband just doesn't do it for me and we're both married and were really horny after seeing the movies so we pulled over to play. My husband can't find out about this!" Thankfully she was dressed relatively classy for a streetwalker, and the cop bought it, smirked, told us what else he could cite us for, then said,"Get a room next time".

Needless to say she earned a bit extra from me that night.

H Mobius
04-09-11, 18:32
If anyone's interested, I just thought I'd post this text (person's name and job title deleted) in light of members sharing their experiences with LE:


Ten Things NOT to do If Arrested:

I have been practicing criminal law for 24 years and have seen a wide variety of reactions by people who are being arrested. Some of these reactions are unwise but understandable. Others are self defeating to the point of being bizarre. No one plans to be arrested, but it might help to think just once about what you will do and not do if you ever hear the phrase "Put your hands behind you." The simplest "to do" rule is to do what you are told. Simple, but somehow it often escapes someone who is either scared or intoxicated. More important to guarding your rights and interests are ten things you SHOULD NOT do:

1. Don't try to convince the officer of your innocence. It's useless. He or she only needs "probable cause" to believe you have committed a crime in order to arrest you. He does not decide your guilt and he actually doesn't care if you are innocent or not. It is the job of the judge or jury to free you if he is wrong. If you feel that urge to convince him he's made a mistake, remember the overwhelming probability that instead you will say at least one thing that will hurt your case, perhaps even fatally. It is smarter to save your defense for your lawyer.

2. Don't run. It's highly unlikely a suspect could outrun ten radio cars converging on a block in mere seconds. I saw a case where a passenger being driven home by a drunken friend bolted and ran. Why? It was the driver they wanted, and she needlessly risked injury in a forceful arrest. Even worse, the police might have suspected she ran because she had a gun, perhaps making them too quick to draw their own firearms. Most police will just arrest a runner, but there are some who will be mad they had to work so hard and injure the suspect unnecessarily.

3. Keep quiet. My hardest cases to defend are those where the suspect got very talkative. Incredibly, many will start babbling without the police having asked a single question. My most vivid memory of this problem was the armed robbery suspect who blurted to police: "How could the guy identify me? The robbers were wearing masks." To which the police smiled and responded,"Oh? Were they?" Judges and juries will discount or ignore what a suspect says that helps him, but give great weight to anything that seems to hurt him. In 24 years of criminal practice, I could count on one hand the number of times a suspect was released because of what he told the police after they arrested him.

4. Don't give permission to search anywhere. If they ask, it probably means they don't believe they have the right to search and need your consent. If you are ordered to hand over your keys, state loudly "You do NOT have my permission to search." If bystanders hear you, whatever the police find may be excluded from evidence later. This is also a good reason not to talk, even if it seems all is lost when they find something incriminating.

5. If the police are searching your car or home, don't look at the places you wish they wouldn't search. Don't react to the search at all, and especially not to questions like "Who does this belong to?"

6. Don't resist arrest. Above all, do not push the police or try to swat their hands away. That would be assaulting an officer and any slight injury to them will turn your minor misdemeanor arrest into a felony. A petty shoplifter can wind up going to state prison that way. Resisting arrest (such as pulling away) is merely a misdemeanor and often the police do not even charge that offense. Obviously, striking an officer can result in serious injury to you as well.

7. Try to resist the temptation to mouth off at the police, even if you have been wrongly arrested. Police have a lot of discretion in what charges are brought. They can change a misdemeanor to a felony, add charges, or even take the trouble to talk directly to the prosecutor and urge him to go hard on you. On the other hand, I have seen a client who was friendly to the police and talked sports and such on the way to the station. They gave him a break. Notice he did not talk about his case, however.

8. Do not believe what the police tell you in order to get you to talk. The law permits them to lie to a suspect in order to get him to make admissions. For example, they will separate two friends who have been arrested and tell the first one that the second one squealed on him. The first one then squeals on the second, though in truth the second one never said anything. An even more common example is telling a suspect that if he talks to the police,"it will go easier." Well, that's sort of true. It will be much easier for the police to prove their case. I can't remember too many cases where the prosecutor gave the defendant an easier deal because he waived his right to silence and confessed.

9. If at home, do not invite the police inside, nor should you "step outside." If the police believe you have committed a felony, they usually need an arrest warrant to go into your home to arrest you. If they ask you to "step outside", you will have solved that problem for them. The correct responses are: "I am comfortable talking right here.","No, you may not come in.", or "Do you have a warrant to enter or to arrest me in my home?" I am not suggesting that you run. In fact, that is the best way to ensure the harshest punishment later on. But you may not find it so convenient to be arrested Friday night when all the courts and law offices are closed. With an attorney, you can perhaps surrender after bail arrangements are made and spend NO time in custody while your case is pending.

10. If you are arrested outside your home, do not accept any offers to let you go inside to get dressed, change, get a jacket, call your wife, or any other reason. The police will of course escort you inside and then search everywhere they please, again without a warrant. Likewise decline offers to secure your car safely.

That's it: Ten simple rules that will leave as many of your rights intact as possible if you are arrested. How about a short test? You have a fight with your live-in girlfriend and the police come and find you on the sidewalk two houses down from the apartment. The girlfriend points you out and the police arrest you for assault. They tell you they don't intend to question you. They just want your name and address. Do you answer? Well, you shouldn't. Your address is the single most damaging admission you could make. If you admit living with her, you have just converted a misdemeanor assault into a felony punishable by state prison. When you are arrested it is their game, and you don't know the rules. It is best to be silent and let the attorney handle it later. The bottom line is that if the police have enough evidence to arrest, they will. If they don't, you could easily provide that missing evidence by talking.

Hypo Luxa
04-09-11, 20:19
If anyone's interested, I just thought I'd post this text (person's name and job title deleted) in light of members sharing their experiences with LE:Where's the Facebook "Like" button when you need it? Or the Flickr "Favorite" button?

Good stuff H Mobius!

Pok Gai
04-09-11, 21:34
Where's the Facebook "Like" button when you need it? Or the Flickr "Favorite" button?

Good stuff H Mobius! I prefer a USA SG app where I can search providers and rate on that.

Hypo Luxa
04-09-11, 22:22
I prefer a USA SG app where I can search providers and rate on that.Wouldn't it be great if there were an iPhone app for this site to see it at a better reading size? It used to suck browsing it on my iPhone at normal size squeezed down when I needed hobbying info on the go. MUCH better when I got my iPad!

Here's a tip for those of you with iDevices or Androids. Buy (or DL free) ANOTHER browser app for your device to browse these sites. That way, they are not in the bookmarks or history of your main browser for others to see, etc. With iPhones/iPads, you can create folders and bury the app in there to be more stealth. The one I use is called Journey Browser for a couple bux, or the lite version for free!

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/journey-web-browser/id317286301?mt=8

Uki Eater
04-10-11, 02:45
The iPhone screen is just small to be reading and writing on a 3. 5" screen. When I used my Blackberry, it couldn't display the new USA sg forum properly. Was frustrating to logon and view posts. The older USA sg site had no issues though.

What would be nuts is an app that tells you which providers are in and which ones are out or on vacation on all the AMP places. Heh, you get real time status update on when a provider is busy or available. Not like this would ever happen but, would be cool.

Blake123
04-10-11, 05:26
A lawyer friend once told me the #1 rule: Do NOT tell the police ANYTHING except your name and address or show an I'd. Tell them you take the 5th, and want a lawyer before you talk about anything else. If they can catch you in a lie,

Just like we were told in SERE (http://www.gosere.com/) if captured: name, rank and serial number--nothing more.

Strong Mojo
04-10-11, 12:58
Thanks for the post. BTW, does anyone have the name of a good defense attorney just in case I get busted? I'd like to keep them in my contacts list.

Stay safe.

Sm

Pok Gai
04-10-11, 22:35
Thanks for the post. BTW, does anyone have the name of a good defense attorney just in case I get busted? I'd like to keep them in my contacts list.

Stay safe.

SmI'd like that info too. PM if needed. So what exactly happens when you get arrested? Like can you post bail and get out? Or do you have to go to court first? Just wondering if it was possible to do all that on the DL without the fam every knowing.

H Mobius
04-10-11, 23:03
I'd like that info too. PM if needed. So what exactly happens when you get arrested? Like can you post bail and get out? Or do you have to go to court first? Just wondering if it was possible to do all that on the DL without the fam every knowing.Well, it depends, such as how one handles themselves as in paragraphs 1 and 3 for example. Many years ago I had a coworker go through what is mentioned in #7 regarding adding charges (he did not "mouth off" and was cooperative); first his bail was going to be a certain amount, then they said "there's a problem" and he ended up having to stay.

I did see a guy get cuffed in front of what is now Winner 8 back in the 90's. There were numerous officers. Next thing you know the cops slammed him against the building (optical shop?), I honestly don't know why, he was just standing there cuffed.

The common thread in cases I've been told about is that the arrested person really eats a lot of verbal abuse from officers especially once they get to the station. I think it was "Blue Streak" where Martin Lawrence's character gets released from jail and a lace is missing from his shoe; same thing happened to a guy here and when he asked where the lace was, the cops ganged-up on him.

There was discussion in the AMP thread about raids and how the cops can't do this or that; but the fact is they'll do what they want and the judge will believe their side of the story, so it's best to not assume certain things can't or won't happen.

Otis C1
04-10-11, 23:21
I'd like that info too. PM if needed. So what exactly happens when you get arrested? Like can you post bail and get out? Or do you have to go to court first? Just wondering if it was possible to do all that on the DL without the fam every knowing.When they catch you (via a sting) they cuff you, read you the Miranda and drive you to the station for prints, pictures and lock up. They will ask you if you want to bail out and tell you the cost. The bad part is no checks or plastic, cash is king (between $ X 5 to $ X 10) at the station. If you don't have the cash, then hope you don't get caught on a Friday cause you either call someone to bail you out or you sit in the cell till Monday morning when they chain you up to others who couldn't post bail and take you to court in a paddy wagon. Didn't mean to get glamorous on you but that's what happens. In court, DO NOT PLEAD GUILTY! They will tell you this before you get into the courtroom. To the noobs who haven't developed the instincts or the "spider sense", Stick to the AMPs and providers who have been reviewed here in these threads. Stay safe Oh

Head Lock
04-11-11, 08:38
There was discussion in the AMP thread about raids and how the cops can't do this or that; but the fact is they'll do what they want and the judge will believe their side of the story, so it's best to not assume certain things can't or won't happen.I second this. There is the rulebook and then there is the field. In the field, no one is watching the rulebook. The lads in the blue suits make the rules in the field. Do not assume you have any advantage due to some technicality. Someone else mentioned it, but even cops are told by training officers, when 5h! T happens, deny, deny, deny.

Pok Gai
04-11-11, 13:00
cash is king (between $ X 5 to $ X 10) at the station. If you don't have the cash, then hope you don't get caught on a Friday cause you either call someone to bail you out So if I have that on hand, I can just pull it out of the wallet and I'm out, see you in court? I guess the only prob now is I only carry exact change when mongering. Thanks for the info. I guess I don't have to call the fam / SO to bail my ass out

Numbah One
04-11-11, 13:52
I've often wondered what it would be like to get busted in an MT establishment, that's located in a building on my Church's property!

I probably would have to sell all my property and leave town.

Could you imagine being busted on your church's property and having your picture in the local papers. Yes, I would have to leave town!

This definitely is not going to happen to me!

Niceguy808
04-11-11, 16:37
Thanks for the post. BTW, does anyone have the name of a good defense attorney just in case I get busted? I'd like to keep them in my contacts list.

Stay safe.

SmI got the name of a good attorney from a friend whose brother got busted on a criminal charge. The case is ongoing, so I can't say whether or not the guy got off, but I have a name if anyone wants it. Not sure if he'd handle this kind of case, but worth a try.

PM me for name of lawyer and telephone number.

Mba Hi
04-11-11, 16:49
Like the chicken fights where the house usually bails you out if busted in a raid, will the AMPs to the same if they are raided.

Waikikian
04-11-11, 22:20
If you're in a massage parlor, always make sure your shorts are at arms length. As soon as they break the outer door down (this is done in the Baltimore / D. C. Area) and you're naked, quickly grab your shorts and put them on! Then turn on your belly.

If anybody asks you anything, you're there to get a massage.

I haven't done escorts in years and never in Hawaii! If you were meeting an escort like "Mr. Titcomb" did, make sure you tell the agency that you want a lady to show you the sights for an hour or so.

Both ways, you have an out! And I'll tell you what! No cop is going to go with you anywhere, no matter what. That's out of their work scope.

H Mobius
04-11-11, 22:42
Like the chicken fights where the house usually bails you out if busted in a raid, will the AMPs to the same if they are raided.I'd be surprised if they gave a monger money for the soda machine. Bail amount multiplied by the number of customers snagged; I highly doubt it.

Local Legend
04-11-11, 22:45
I've often wondered what it would be like to get busted in an MT establishment, that's located in a building on my Church's property!

I probably would have to sell all my property and leave town.

Could you imagine being busted on your church's property and having your picture in the local papers. Yes, I would have to leave town!

This definitely is not going to happen to me!Why are you always worried about getting caught on church property? The priest who has the little boys balls in his mouth isn't worried. Maybe more pussy on sacred grounds will help remove the smell of young semen. I wouldn't worry about morality issues, if you are Showboatt then I kinda think that you probably won't be seeing Peter at the gate. Haha

SnatchThat
04-12-11, 08:16
Well yes they are out and about trying to nab the "bad" guy they got to something for being employed by the state. Well the problem is with you guys is that you give them everything that they need and not think about what it is that you are doing. Honestly instead of exact information this now brings up a new system of "doing things" heights should not be exact but a broad category like 5'4" and below is short. 5'5" to 5'9" is medium. 5'9" to 6' is tall, and 6'1" and beyond is huge. I think that we should not give out exactd names, what I notices is that all the places have the same names. This is good and bad for separate reason. Next, some might be "targeted" it is not illegal to track internet traffic then it comes down to state vs federal jurisdiction and they can make some BS up to justify it but in the recent reporst about those online predators they state that the PIGS followed form residence to point of meet. And then arrested when it was in the same general time frame. Next, what does that translate to in the future. Well they can track internet activity and see who is coming to this very website and back track to the originating signal meaning some of you all need to become more computer Savy.

Look into VPN or Tor Project, Tor is good for the cheapies, VPN makes it more secure. Good luck fellow past, future and fallen bros.

Tsunami69
04-17-11, 13:24
Certainly don't kill anyone, ever. If you did ever think of committing murder don't talk about it ever, especially on the internet! This whole case in New York is creepy weird to begin with and this part of the story caught my eye because of "our" forum! Jackson is wise in striking comments that contain direct threats of violence.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/04/17/internet-sex-forum-reportedly-wanted-revenge-long-island-escort-later-murdered/

Head Lock
04-18-11, 18:56
Don't recall anyone mentioning this, but Civil Beat has ongoing coverage of the subject:

http://www.civilbeat.com/articles/2010/11/23/6693-selling-sex-in-honolulu-unlicensed-massage-parlors-lack-enforcement-scrutiny/

Candy Addict
04-20-11, 09:45
So, I'm wondering if you are "engaged in sex" in a place of business (the kind you wouldn't tell your family, SO or her friends or family about) with one of their 'employees', wouldn't they arrest you (especially since most guys don't see the girl enough times to know her personally, and the 'stories won't match') even if you will be "released pending further investigation" just to teach you a lesson? Wouldn't they have probable cause? What do you think, CA?Sorry for the delayed response. This is the first time I've had a chance to get on the forum in almost a month.

In response to the scenario you describe, keep in mind that having sex isn't illegal, not even when it's in a bar, strip club, or an AMP. It's having sex in exchange for money that's the crime. To arrest anyone for prostitution, whether it's the provider or the john, the police must have evidence of the exchange of money, or the agreement to exchange money. Without that, they can't arrest you for prostitution. Lewd conduct, maybe (which is probably just as bad) , but not prostitution. They would literally have to see and / or hear the agreement to exchange money. Not likely in a bar unless they were sitting at the table with you. Now I don't know about you, but I don't normally go hopping the KBs and VBs with Uncle LEO!

The 10 points from the lawyer you posted were good. If you find yourself in the middle of a raid:

1. STFU! Say nothing. Admit nothing. Don't try to explain anything, just play "stupid" and claim you have no idea what the nice officer is talking about. Yeah, you'll look and sound like an absolute idiot, but you won't be giving up anything that could be used against you later!

2. Be EXTREMELY polite to the officers! No matter how pissed off you might be, be polite and respectful. This ain't the time or place to fight anything, physically or verbally. You'll lose and probably screw yourself while your at it.

Now, I'm going to disagree slightly with something some people have alleged. Most cops will not make shit up and lie just to make an arrest only to let the courts deal with it later. If they ever get caught doing that even once, their credibility is totally shot and no judge will ever trust anything they ever say or do ever again. Plus, they open themselves, the department, and the city up to a lawsuit for false arrest. It just ain't worth it! Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, including this one, but the exceptions are rare. Cops want to put away the bad guys, and if their credibility is lost, they might as well turn in their badges. Now, if they should royally screw-up somewhere along the way, some will resort to lying to try and save their bacon (no pun intended!) , but that's a whole different story from lying just to make an arrest or harrass a guy they came across in a bar. Especially when you consider that prostitution is just a petty misdemeanor. I've known a lot of cops over the years, here and on the mainland, and none of the ones I've ever known would risk their ability to do their job on something manini like this. The majority of the times they raid a bar or an AMP, it's not prostitution they're actually looking for. Most of time they're looking for violations of immigration or licensing (liquor, massage) laws. Those are much easier to prove than prostitution, and serve to "harrass" the establishment and scare the customers as much as a prostitution arrest would.

CA

H Mobius
04-20-11, 11:50
Sorry for the delayed response. This is the first time I've had a chance to get on the forum in almost a month.

In response to the scenario you describe, keep in mind that having sex isn't illegal, not even when it's in a bar, strip club, or an AMP. It's having sex in exchange for money that's the crime. To arrest anyone for prostitution, whether it's the provider or the john, the police must have evidence of the exchange of money, or the agreement to exchange money. Without that, they can't arrest you for prostitution. Lewd conduct, maybe (which is probably just as bad) , but not prostitution. They would literally have to see and / or hear the agreement to exchange money. Not likely in a bar unless they were sitting at the table with you. Now I don't know about you, but I don't normally go hopping the KBs and VBs with Uncle LEO!

The 10 points from the lawyer you posted were good. If you find yourself in the middle of a raid:

1. STFU! Say nothing. Admit nothing. Don't try to explain anything, just play "stupid" and claim you have no idea what the nice officer is talking about. Yeah, you'll look and sound like an absolute idiot, but you won't be giving up anything that could be used against you later!

2. Be EXTREMELY polite to the officers! No matter how pissed off you might be, be polite and respectful. This ain't the time or place to fight anything, physically or verbally. You'll lose and probably screw yourself while your at it.

Now, I'm going to disagree slightly with something some people have alleged. Most cops will not make shit up and lie just to make an arrest only to let the courts deal with it later. If they ever get caught doing that even once, their credibility is totally shot and no judge will ever trust anything they ever say or do ever again. Plus, they open themselves, the department, and the city up to a lawsuit for false arrest. It just ain't worth it! Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, including this one, but the exceptions are rare. Cops want to put away the bad guys, and if their credibility is lost, they might as well turn in their badges. Now, if they should royally screw-up somewhere along the way, some will resort to lying to try and save their bacon (no pun intended!) , but that's a whole different story from lying just to make an arrest or harrass a guy they came across in a bar. Especially when you consider that prostitution is just a petty misdemeanor. I've known a lot of cops over the years, here and on the mainland, and none of the ones I've ever known would risk their ability to do their job on something manini like this. The majority of the times they raid a bar or an AMP, it's not prostitution they're actually looking for. Most of time they're looking for violations of immigration or licensing (liquor, massage) laws. Those are much easier to prove than prostitution, and serve to "harrass" the establishment and scare the customers as much as a prostitution arrest would.

CAThanks CA. Will PM you.

Waikikian
04-20-11, 12:49
Don't recall anyone mentioning this, but Civil Beat has ongoing coverage of the subject:

http://www.civilbeat.com/articles/2010/11/23/6693-selling-sex-in-honolulu-unlicensed-massage-parlors-lack-enforcement-scrutiny/

[QUOTE=CIVIL BEAT]The trafficking of sex workers is a problem in part because the state is a tourism destination and military center.

[QUOTE]Now I know. By human trafficking, they mean "pimped women". Thought it had to do with trafficking women from one place to another.

Also, during WW2, prostitution was legal in Honolulu! Probably was favored by the military!

Like I said before, I believe the cop raping the prostitute and Obama's friend getting arrested is just somebody's made up "wet dream"!

The Waiks.

Pok Gai
04-20-11, 14:10
Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, including this one, but the exceptions are rare.

CALOL rare enough that I've met the exception in 2 of the 3 states I lived in. But to be fair, the cars I've driven do cry for attention. But they don't shout DRUG DEALER in here, pull me over please. When I was in CA it got to the point I had to carry the business card of my uncles (by marriage) brother, who is a sheriff. My car was legit. 100% paid for. I don't give lip, I try to be respectful. Yet the same CHP kept pulling me over 2-3x a week for a few months. When I told my aunt about it, my uncles brother gave me his card and said for CHP to call him if it ever happened again. Sure enough, they stopped pulling me over after I flashed the card. So ya, I think most cops are crooked to some extent. But if you keep your nose clean (when they looking). And not be difficult, we can all get along just fine.

John Ross
04-20-11, 15:43
LOL rare enough that I've met the exception in 2 of the 3 states I lived in. But to be fair, the cars I've driven do cry for attention. But they don't shout DRUG DEALER in here, pull me over please. When I was in CA it got to the point I had to carry the business card of my uncles (by marriage) brother, who is a sheriff. My car was legit. 100% paid for. I don't give lip, I try to be respectful. Yet the same CHP kept pulling me over 2-3x a week for a few months. When I told my aunt about it, my uncles brother gave me his card and said for CHP to call him if it ever happened again. Sure enough, they stopped pulling me over after I flashed the card. So ya, I think most cops are crooked to some extent. But if you keep your nose clean (when they looking). And not be difficult, we can all get along just fine.When I was in CA, my cars used to have very expensive license plate frames that said CHP 11-99 Foundation. 11-99 is the CHP code for officer in distress, and the foundation had donors that supported the CHP officers' families in their time of need. For a donation of $1000, you got a license frame and a flat badge that you keep with you. You get pulled over in that car, flash the badge and you are usually let off by the officer.

V Rider
04-20-11, 17:52
Sorry for the delayed response. This is the first time I've had a chance to get on the forum in almost a month.

In response to the scenario you describe, keep in mind that having sex isn't illegal, not even when it's in a bar, strip club, or an AMP. It's having sex in exchange for money that's the crime. To arrest anyone for prostitution, whether it's the provider or the john, the police must have evidence of the exchange of money, or the agreement to exchange money. Without that, they can't arrest you for prostitution. Lewd conduct, maybe (which is probably just as bad) , but not prostitution. They would literally have to see and / or hear the agreement to exchange money. Not likely in a bar unless they were sitting at the table with you. Now I don't know about you, but I don't normally go hopping the KBs and VBs with Uncle LEO!

The 10 points from the lawyer you posted were good. If you find yourself in the middle of a raid:

1. STFU! Say nothing. Admit nothing. Don't try to explain anything, just play "stupid" and claim you have no idea what the nice officer is talking about. Yeah, you'll look and sound like an absolute idiot, but you won't be giving up anything that could be used against you later!

2. Be EXTREMELY polite to the officers! No matter how pissed off you might be, be polite and respectful. This ain't the time or place to fight anything, physically or verbally. You'll lose and probably screw yourself while your at it.

Now, I'm going to disagree slightly with something some people have alleged. Most cops will not make shit up and lie just to make an arrest only to let the courts deal with it later. If they ever get caught doing that even once, their credibility is totally shot and no judge will ever trust anything they ever say or do ever again. Plus, they open themselves, the department, and the city up to a lawsuit for false arrest. It just ain't worth it! Yes, there are exceptions to every rule, including this one, but the exceptions are rare. Cops want to put away the bad guys, and if their credibility is lost, they might as well turn in their badges. Now, if they should royally screw-up somewhere along the way, some will resort to lying to try and save their bacon (no pun intended!) , but that's a whole different story from lying just to make an arrest or harrass a guy they came across in a bar. Especially when you consider that prostitution is just a petty misdemeanor. I've known a lot of cops over the years, here and on the mainland, and none of the ones I've ever known would risk their ability to do their job on something manini like this. The majority of the times they raid a bar or an AMP, it's not prostitution they're actually looking for. Most of time they're looking for violations of immigration or licensing (liquor, massage) laws. Those are much easier to prove than prostitution, and serve to "harrass" the establishment and scare the customers as much as a prostitution arrest would.

CAI'd like to bust the crooked cops who get freebies in the AMPs.

Candy Addict
04-21-11, 03:57
LOL rare enough that I've met the exception in 2 of the 3 states I lived in. But to be fair, the cars I've driven do cry for attention. But they don't shout DRUG DEALER in here, pull me over please. When I was in CA it got to the point I had to carry the business card of my uncles (by marriage) brother, who is a sheriff. My car was legit. 100% paid for. I don't give lip, I try to be respectful. Yet the same CHP kept pulling me over 2-3x a week for a few months. When I told my aunt about it, my uncles brother gave me his card and said for CHP to call him if it ever happened again. Sure enough, they stopped pulling me over after I flashed the card. So ya, I think most cops are crooked to some extent. But if you keep your nose clean (when they looking). And not be difficult, we can all get along just fine.You're taking my statements out of context. There's just a bit of a difference in pulling someone over to check them out and arresting them on trumped-up charges. They only need to articulate "reasonable suspicion" to justify stopping you for questioning. It's a pretty low bar to reach. Though, in your case, it sounds like you had the makings of a solid harrassment complaint against the CHP officer.

My earlier comments were specifically regarding arresting someone, knowing they had no grounds to do so, and letting the courts sort it out later. They need "probable cause" to make a legal arrest, and if they don't have it, they could be in deep kim chee! What you experienced with those unjustified traffic stops happens more often than it should, no question. But actual arrests without justification? If he gets caught doing that, at best his credibility is shot forever with the courts. At worst, he could lose his job, his car, his house, whatever else of value he might have, when you sue his ass for false arrest and violation of your civil rights under the 4th and 14th Amendments. It just ain't worth it! Especially not for a manini petty misdemeanor charge.

Candy Addict
04-21-11, 04:00
I'd like to bust the crooked cops who get freebies in the AMPs.I agree! If they're demanding freebies for looking the other way, that's extortion. If the mamasan offers them freebies for looking the other way, that's accepting a bribe. They should pay full-price for their fun just like everyone else! .

Doublemint
04-22-11, 07:43
http://bartow.wtsp.com/news/news/hookers-pimps-and-gang-members-arrested-polk-prostitution-sting/54683

There are links to the mag shots in the article.

Head Lock
04-22-11, 09:12
What does this have to do with Honolulu?

Punsai69
04-22-11, 12:58
I'd like to bust the crooked cops who get freebies in the AMPs.Once I was at Smile Spa and I didn't know it was recently raided. While I was on the shampoo table, the girl tells me that she recognizes me. She told me that I was one of the cops that had busted the place a few nights before. First off, I am not a cop so wasn't sure how to respond. I started thinking, should I let her think I was and see what kind of extras I can get? Or just tell her I am not so there are no problems? I told her that it wasn't me but she insisted it was. I didn't get anything more than the regular and paid for it so not sure how they handle the cops in those places.

Scott4
04-22-11, 13:09
What does this have to do with Honolulu?Good information, be careful when contacting escorts, Five-O might be close by.

Doublemint
04-22-11, 22:25
What does this have to do with Honolulu?I just thought some of us may be interested. That's all.

John Ross
04-27-11, 00:52
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/120748624.html

The guy robbed Pukalana La Massage in Waimalu and started waving a gun around and an off-duty cop shot him.

Head Lock
04-27-11, 03:34
Yeah, right upstairs of Colorful. That neighborhood is pretty sketchy anyway.

CM0069
04-27-11, 03:45
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/120748624.html

The guy robbed Pukalana La Massage in Waimalu and started waving a gun around and an off-duty cop shot him.Some missing info that is usually added is the caliber / type of gun used by assailant, which makes me wonder if he even had a real gun. The added line by the reporter of the alleged unspent bullet found (heck could have been left by anyone?) certainly feels like an attempt to convince the readers it was justified. Robber never fired his gun, cept his mouth. And of course, the article simply says written by staff, guess someone doesn't want to stand behind their own article.

Waikikian
04-27-11, 04:07
Was a warning required, when a cop confronts a man brandishing a gun, in public!

Maybe not. Then again, Maybe so!

When I was living in Redondo Beach, I used to frequent the RB Spa on Artesia Blvd. One Friday night I decided to go to another spa instead, on Pacific Coast Highway. The next morning I read that the RB Spa was robbed by two armed men, and that two Korean providers were killed!

Do you know that I almost walked out of that Pacific Coast Highway MP, to go to RB Spa, that night!

Something told me not to go to RB Spa!

Waikikian

Punsai69
04-27-11, 12:43
Was the upstairs massage place legit or not?

Captin Crunch
04-27-11, 13:06
Was the upstairs massage place legit or not?Most likely legit.

Punsai69
04-27-11, 13:52
Some missing info that is usually added is the caliber / type of gun used by assailant, which makes me wonder if he even had a real gun. The added line by the reporter of the alleged unspent bullet found (heck could have been left by anyone?) certainly feels like an attempt to convince the readers it was justified. Robber never fired his gun, cept his mouth. And of course, the article simply says written by staff, guess someone doesn't want to stand behind their own article.Fake or not, you point a gun at a cop, you will get shot.

Member #4472
04-27-11, 17:03
Fake or not, you point a gun at a cop, you will get shot.I don't think cops should be given the right to shoot everyone, and I certainly don 't support all that they do. Like chasing after providers and mongers. But if it weren't for them, there would be no peace. So if you threaten / point a gun at / or shoot at a cop, you get what you deserve. And the one good thing in this case is that he shot the guy dead. Just like that idiot who terrorized the kalanianaole hwy area last week. The absolutely last thing we need is for a cop to just wound the guy. Then we have to pay for his recoverey, trial and house him for years at $50K per year. To all the cops that read this forum (and we know they do) , aim for the head and shoot to kill.

Today is a good day because there is one last crimminal terrorizing our neighborhoods.

Otis C1
04-27-11, 17:31
I don't think cops should be given the right to shoot everyone, and I certainly don 't support all that they do. Like chasing after providers and mongers. But if it weren't for them, there would be no peace. So if you threaten / point a gun at / or shoot at a cop, you get what you deserve. And the one good thing in this case is that he shot the guy dead. Just like that idiot who terrorized the kalanianaole hwy area last week. The absolutely last thing we need is for a cop to just wound the guy. Then we have to pay for his recoverey, trial and house him for years at $50K per year. To all the cops that read this forum (and we know they do) , aim for the head and shoot to kill.

Today is a good day because there is one last crimminal terrorizing our neighborhoods.

Well unfortunately, our friends in blue are under orders by the powers that be to go out and put on a good show and arrest a few providers and lets also sting some hobbyists while your at it. As for these a$$holes robbing and shooting people, yeah I'd like to agree with you but again the cops are instructed to shoot to "STOP". As for killing these animals, this is the reason I'm all for the death penalty, and not by lethal injection but rather by firing squad or hanging. These methods to me are the cheapest. Just my .2 cents.

Playboy54
04-27-11, 18:30
I checked the website, apparently it was a legit place that also did lipo and micro-abrasion. On the police, guys like "robbers" keep the cops busy from concentrating on stinging johns. I saw the pigs bust a John behind longs last night and took him to jail for the crime of solicitation. They also ruffed him up a little. So the cops think we are all criminals, so if you support police actions, you are digging your own grave. Plus who do you think makes future hookers for us to enjoy? The cops, doctors, and lawyers or low-life's that conceive and leave. So cut your local criminals a break, unless you like fucking you hand.

Playboy54

Waikikian
04-27-11, 19:52
I don't think cops should be given the right to shoot everyone, and I certainly don 't support all that they do. Like chasing after providers and mongers. But if it weren't for them, there would be no peace. So if you threaten / point a gun at / or shoot at a cop, you get what you deserve. And the one good thing in this case is that he shot the guy dead. Just like that idiot who terrorized the kalanianaole hwy area last week. The absolutely last thing we need is for a cop to just wound the guy. Then we have to pay for his recoverey, trial and house him for years at $50K per year. To all the cops that read this forum (and we know they do) , aim for the head and shoot to kill.

Today is a good day because there is one last crimminal terrorizing our neighborhoods.Yes but, if that guy that was shot and killed, was your brother in law and he had a toy gun, then it wouldn't be so good!

It's all in the way you look at it!

Kikian

Head Lock
04-27-11, 23:44
Some missing info that is usually added is the caliber / type of gun used by assailant, which makes me wonder if he even had a real gun.Not defending the cop, but that is pure BS. Matters not whether it was a. 44 Magnum, a BB gun or a water pistol. If you wanted people to think it was a gun, you deserve a bullet. I have been in more than one armed confrontation and if you think you are going to ponder, I wonder if that Beretta is real? And if it's real, is it loaded? Bullshit. You tell him to drop it and if he points it at you, the AH has just bought a bullet.

Head Lock
04-27-11, 23:51
Yes but, if that guy that was shot and killed, was your brother in law and he had a toy gun, then it wouldn't be so good!

If my brother-in-law, or for that matter, my brother, robbed a massage parlor and waved a toy gun around, I would offer to shoot him if the cops were too busy.

Yeah, surely cops should not be allowed to shoot just anyone, but so far in these three incidents, these were armed robbers. In that sense, the officer shooting the criminal was not only protecting himself, but the public as well. It's like that scene in the original Dirty Harry:

(Harry Callahan has to explain why he shot a man)

Callahan: Well, when an adult male is chasing a female with intent to commit rape, I shoot the bastard. That's my policy.

The Mayor: Intent? How did you establish that?

Callahan: When a naked man is chasing a woman through an alley with a butcher's knife and a hard-on, I figure he isn't out collecting for the Red Cross!

(walks out of the room)

The Mayor: He's got a point.

Capn Morgan
04-28-11, 00:03
Was the upstairs massage place legit or not?I was at Pukalana a few months ago and it appeared totally legit to me. She starts you on some sort of mechanical table to stretch you out and then moves you to a regular table for a deep tissue with a lot of pressure. Good massage. Hope this incident doesn't scare all her business off.

Suekebe
04-28-11, 00:07
Was the upstairs massage place legit or not?Tried her awhile back. Nice lady- sorta reminds me of Michelle / Carol Kai. Age and weight wise, anyway. Speaks good english, pretty good massage, clean place, but no shower. Only went once, though, and didn't ask about extras. Hope she's ok.

Member #4472
04-28-11, 00:25
Yes but, if that guy that was shot and killed, was your brother in law and he had a toy gun, then it wouldn't be so good!

It's all in the way you look at it!

KikianIf anybody, my brother, your brother, the pope's brother, the Dalai Lama's brother, has what looks like a gun and aims it at an officer, then I hope the officer shoots him dead.

BTW, that includes me too. That's why I don't go around carrying anything that even looks like a gun.

And I'm still waiting for his mama or wife or GF or family or friends to show up on tv and say "but he was just one good guy that was misunderstood". Alooooooha!

Head Lock
04-28-11, 02:36
And I'm still waiting for his mama or wife or GF or family or friends to show up on tv and say "but he was just one good guy that was misunderstood".The other one is,"He's not a bad man. He just made a mistake." Uh, no. Bzzt. Wrong. Dropping your ice cream cone is a mistake. Robbery is a crime. The way I learned it, you're a robber, then by definition you are a bad guy.

Numbah One
04-28-11, 03:46
If anybody, my brother, your brother, the pope's brother, the Dalai Lama's brother, has what looks like a gun and aims it at an officer, then I hope the officer shoots him dead.

BTW, that includes me too. That's why I don't go around carrying anything that even looks like a gun.

And I'm still waiting for his mama or wife or GF or family or friends to show up on tv and say "but he was just one good guy that was misunderstood". Alooooooha!A construction worker "eyewitness" said that the cop did tell the gunman to drop his weapon a couple of times, but the gunman ignored the warning!

In that case, Yes. The cop had every right to shoot.

Not wanting to take up for the gunman, but it sounds like the gunman was probably mentally ill. Since a toy gun was no match for the cops full auto baretta.

Chik0848
04-28-11, 05:21
Yes but, if that guy that was shot and killed, was your brother in law and he had a toy gun, then it wouldn't be so good!

It's all in the way you look at it!

KikianWrong is wrong. It may have ended as suicide by cop.

First Try
04-28-11, 14:12
Police officers are here to protect. Yes they have their share of bad eggs, but what profession doesn't have bad eggs. I hate it when a criminal with an extensive list of crimes [BTW, how many crimes does it take to be on the extensive list? ] is fatally wounded and the family of the criminal says to the media "Oh, he had troubled upbringing" or "Why didn't they shoot him in the leg or arm? '. Yeah, maybe if the guy poses for the shot to be taken. If an innocent bystander is shot by a criminal because the police didn't take him down I would be an enraged family member. A burden on society survives while someone who probably contributes to society is lost. I agree it suicide by cop if you wave any weapon around a police officer. Thanks HPD!

Otis C1
04-28-11, 16:44
Police officers are here to protect. Yes they have their share of bad eggs, but what profession doesn't have bad eggs. I hate it when a criminal with an extensive list of crimes [BTW, how many crimes does it take to be on the extensive list? ] is fatally wounded and the family of the criminal says to the media "Oh, he had troubled upbringing" or "Why didn't they shoot him in the leg or arm? '. Yeah, maybe if the guy poses for the shot to be taken. If an innocent bystander is shot by a criminal because the police didn't take him down I would be an enraged family member. A burden on society survives while someone who probably contributes to society is lost. I agree it suicide by cop if you wave any weapon around a police officer. Thanks HPD!Again, the police for that matter prison guards as well are trained to shoot to "STOP" and if that means the suspect survives so be it. However the police are strictly trained to aim for center mass and if that doesn't "STOP" the suspect brandishing a weapon, then it's head shot city.

Warrior12
04-28-11, 19:51
I don't have any issues with the shooting, but I found out that HPD are allowed to use hollow points. The suspect was shot in the right shoulder and the additional damage most likely done by the bullet is what probably killed him. I am not sure about how I feel about them using this type of ammo. I don't think a hollow point helps in the stopping capability for a police officer.

Johnny14
04-28-11, 19:53
I don't think cops should be given the right to shoot everyone, and I certainly don 't support all that they do. Like chasing after providers and mongers. But if it weren't for them, there would be no peace. So if you threaten / point a gun at / or shoot at a cop, you get what you deserve. And the one good thing in this case is that he shot the guy dead. Just like that idiot who terrorized the kalanianaole hwy area last week. The absolutely last thing we need is for a cop to just wound the guy. Then we have to pay for his recoverey, trial and house him for years at $50K per year. To all the cops that read this forum (and we know they do) , aim for the head and shoot to kill.

Today is a good day because there is one last crimminal terrorizing our neighborhoods. Yeah, how much did it cost taxpayers to run this criminal through the courts so that he repeats committing more crimes? Hey, maybe this cop should get a free pass to any AMP to help "recuperate" the job stresses, besides, he saved us taxpayer's allot of money for "finding" the proper solution to repeat offenders, this guy will certainly NOT commit any more crime!

I'm sure the ACLU will be up in fits towards HPD. Criminals in prison should be growing their own food, generating their own power (bicycles) , no cable TV, no smoking, bread and water, no "Congential" visits, work in the hot sun from dawn to dust so that they are so tired they can only think of sleeping.

Ocolumbo
04-28-11, 21:18
Yeah, how much did it cost taxpayers to run this criminal through the courts so that he repeats committing more crimes? Hey, maybe this cop should get a free pass to any AMP to help "recuperate" the job stresses, besides, he saved us taxpayer's allot of money for "finding" the proper solution to repeat offenders, this guy will certainly NOT commit any more crime!

I'm sure the ACLU will be up in fits towards HPD. Criminals in prison should be growing their own food, generating their own power (bicycles) , no cable TV, no smoking, bread and water, no "Congential" visits, work in the hot sun from dawn to dust so that they are so tired they can only think of sleeping. I used to knock the ACLU about everything. But it is the ACLU, along with the local Libertarian Party, that take a stand and testify against anti-prostitution laws being prepared in the legislature.

Waikikian
04-28-11, 21:43
Yeah, how much did it cost taxpayers to run this criminal through the courts so that he repeats committing more crimes? Hey, maybe this cop should get a free pass to any AMP to help "recuperate" the job stresses, besides, he saved us taxpayer's allot of money for "finding" the proper solution to repeat offenders, this guy will certainly NOT commit any more crime!

I'm sure the ACLU will be up in fits towards HPD. Criminals in prison should be growing their own food, generating their own power (bicycles) , no cable TV, no smoking, bread and water, no "Congential" visits, work in the hot sun from dawn to dust so that they are so tired they can only think of sleeping. HPD has done a good job in this instance, and I commend them for it!

Just don't like the idea of Mr. Police officer breaking into an MP room and catching me with my pants down.

Just is not the same thing! Just keep spending your time catching the bad guys, is all we ask! A misdemeaner is not my idea of a bad guy!

WaiKikian

Head Lock
04-28-11, 22:54
I don't have any issues with the shooting, but I found out that HPD are allowed to use hollow points. The suspect was shot in the right shoulder and the additional damage most likely done by the bullet is what probably killed him. I am not sure about how I feel about them using this type of ammo. I don't think a hollow point helps in the stopping capability for a police officer.Your information is largely incorrect. Aside from personal interest in the subject, I do have training in firearms and tactics.

HPD has used hollowpoint (HP) ammunition as standard issue for years. Decades? Even before they changed over to 9mm autopistols, they used. 38 Special +P 125-gr. JHP. So does every other police agency. Interestingly, NYCPD was a long-time holdout but I think they too have long since gone to HP ammunition.

HP ammunition brings two primary advantages:

1. Reduced likelihood of overpenetration. In an urban scenario, this is crucial. It does no good to perforate an attacker, only to have the bullet continue on to strike a bystander. This has happened.

2. Contrary to your assertion, it has been documented in studies that HP ammunition improves stopping power. This occurs as the bullet deforms in the target, it dumps its energy there, as opposed to continuing on past the target.

Both of these factors have led police departments to conclude that hollowpoint ammunition is in fact safer for the public. Even the ACLU doesn't fight this (anymore).

The news accounts reported the robber was struck in the right clavicle. Not quite the "shoulder". Now if the robber were standing squared to the officer, this might be a nonlethal wound. However, if the robber were angled with his right shoulder leading toward the officer, the wound track could perforate the right lung or heart, possibly both. We don't know those details, but this clearly illustrates how a simplistic report can lead to false conclusions.

Otis C1 is correct.


Again, the police for that matter prison guards as well are trained to shoot to "STOP" and if that means the suspect survives so be it. However the police are strictly trained to aim for center mass and if that doesn't "STOP" the suspect brandishing a weapon, then it's head shot city.

In defense, the objective is to stop the threat. If an armed officer's commands cause the criminal to cease his activity, this is a success. If not, the force continuum continues and if necessary, deadly force will be utilized. At no point is killing the objective. It can be the unfortunate outcome of some poor choices on the part of the criminal, but no sane individual ventures forth planning to kill.

Police, and anyone trained in the defense use of firearms are instructed to direct fire at center mass. This is because

1. It's the largest target. This increases hit probability and reduces likelihood of overpenetration.
2. It's the least mobile part of the target. The head moves to damned much and is stinking small (see #1).

Not all trainers agree on the head shot. Back in the old days, Col. Cooper taught the "Mozambique" as the response to a failure to stop. Interestingly although the drill had one follow up with a head shot, the actual incident that gave rise to this technique actually had the attack concluded by a shot through the low part of the neck, luckily severing the attacker's spine.

Not just any head shot is effective. There are numerous documented cases of shots deflecting off the skull. Facing front, the actual effective target is roughly delineated by the eyes and nose. Anything outside that is likely to be ineffective. From the side and rear, the effective target area is also smaller than one would think.

Anyway some trainers have since taught that if the attacker doesn't go down as in the North Hollywood bank robbery, to shoot at the pelvis. The pelvis doesn't move as much as the head. It is also more likely to drop the attacker.

I think that's more than enough. Back to sex.

Warrior12
04-29-11, 23:15
Your information is largely incorrect. Aside from personal interest in the subject, I do have training in firearms and tactics.

HPD has used hollowpoint (HP) ammunition as standard issue for years. Decades? Even before they changed over to 9mm autopistols, they used. 38 Special +P 125-gr. JHP. So does every other police agency. Interestingly, NYCPD was a long-time holdout but I think they too have long since gone to HP ammunition.

HP ammunition brings two primary advantages:

1. Reduced likelihood of overpenetration. In an urban scenario, this is crucial. It does no good to perforate an attacker, only to have the bullet continue on to strike a bystander. This has happened.

2. Contrary to your assertion, it has been documented in studies that HP ammunition improves stopping power. This occurs as the bullet deforms in the target, it dumps its energy there, as opposed to continuing on past the target.

Both of these factors have led police departments to conclude that hollowpoint ammunition is in fact safer for the public. Even the ACLU doesn't fight this (anymore).

The news accounts reported the robber was struck in the right clavicle. Not quite the "shoulder". Now if the robber were standing squared to the officer, this might be a nonlethal wound. However, if the robber were angled with his right shoulder leading toward the officer, the wound track could perforate the right lung or heart, possibly both. We don't know those details, but this clearly illustrates how a simplistic report can lead to false conclusions.

Otis C1 is correct.

In defense, the objective is to stop the threat. If an armed officer's commands cause the criminal to cease his activity, this is a success. If not, the force continuum continues and if necessary, deadly force will be utilized. At no point is killing the objective. It can be the unfortunate outcome of some poor choices on the part of the criminal, but no sane individual ventures forth planning to kill.

Police, and anyone trained in the defense use of firearms are instructed to direct fire at center mass. This is because.

1. It's the largest target. This increases hit probability and reduces likelihood of overpenetration.

2. It's the least mobile part of the target. The head moves to damned much and is stinking small (see #1).

Not all trainers agree on the head shot. Back in the old days, Col. Cooper taught the "Mozambique" as the response to a failure to stop. Interestingly although the drill had one follow up with a head shot, the actual incident that gave rise to this technique actually had the attack concluded by a shot through the low part of the neck, luckily severing the attacker's spine.

Not just any head shot is effective. There are numerous documented cases of shots deflecting off the skull. Facing front, the actual effective target is roughly delineated by the eyes and nose. Anything outside that is likely to be ineffective. From the side and rear, the effective target area is also smaller than one would think.

Anyway some trainers have since taught that if the attacker doesn't go down as in the North Hollywood bank robbery, to shoot at the pelvis. The pelvis doesn't move as much as the head. It is also more likely to drop the attacker.

I think that's more than enough. Back to sex. Well thanks for the detailed information. Interestingly enough the person that told me that the hollow point bullets were a leading cause of death was an HPD Officer. LOL.

Head Lock
04-29-11, 23:32
Well thanks for the detailed information. Interestingly enough the person that told me that the hollow point bullets were a leading cause of death was an HPD Officer. LOL.. And his data comes from? I totally believe that he told you this.

In fact some studies have shown that the opposite is true. But, as I said before, back to sex.

Numbah One
04-30-11, 03:20
. And his data comes from? I totally believe that he told you this.

In fact some studies have shown that the opposite is true. But, as I said before, back to sex.The last place that anybody wants to be is in front of an incoming bullet that just left the gun of a capable shooter.

And that's from 10 feet away to 500 yards away. Just not the place to be. In capable hands, don't matter if the bullet is Full Metal Jacket (round nose) of Jacket Hollow point, cast lead or plated. Just not the place to be! Basically the Hollow point acts like a parachute does, and transfers the full energy of the load to the target.

Back to pussy.

K Designs
05-03-11, 02:32
I won't post details since this is not what the forum is about, but the link below for those interested in the read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrostatic_shock

Numbah One
05-03-11, 04:38
The last place that anybody wants to be is in front of an incoming bullet that just left the gun of a capable shooter.

And that's from 10 feet away to 500 yards away. Just not the place to be. In capable hands, don't matter if the bullet is Full Metal Jacket (round nose) , Jacketed Hollow point, cast lead or plated. Just not the place to be! Basically the Hollow point acts like a parachute does, and transfers the full energy of the load to the target.

Back to pussyWell, when you're talking large caliber, say 44 magnum, you can have way over a 1000 ft lbs of energy hit the target, and that can affect any connecting tissue anywhere in the body. Cops usually carry around either a 9mm or 38 special or even a 45 ACP. In hollow point, they are very potent. Like I originally said."The last place that anybody wants to be, is in front of an incoming bullet that just left the gun of a capable shooter".

Now that's very good advice!

Local Legend
05-03-11, 21:46
Well, when you're talking large caliber, say 44 magnum, you can have way over a 1000 ft lbs of energy hit the target, and that can affect any connecting tissue anywhere in the body. Cops usually carry around either a 9mm or 38 special or even a 45 ACP. In hollow point, they are very potent. Like I originally said."The last place that anybody wants to be, is in front of an incoming bullet that just left the gun of a capable shooter".

Now that's very good advice! I don't understand why you quote yourself and reply back. Did you mistakenly use the wrong user I'd? Or are you a multipersonaliyty kinda guy? Just curious.

CM0069
05-04-11, 11:20
Not defending the cop, but that is pure BS. Matters not whether it was a. 44 Magnum, a BB gun or a water pistol. If you wanted people to think it was a gun, you deserve a bullet. I have been in more than one armed confrontation and if you think you are going to ponder, I wonder if that Beretta is real? And if it's real, is it loaded? Bullshit. You tell him to drop it and if he points it at you, the AH has just bought a bullet.If the robber had fired even ONE shot the entire time, whether to the air, to the wall and yes at people he deserves a bullet asap. But again, in broad daylight, the ONLY bullet was from HPD in the end. So did anyone find out what caliber of gun the robber had?

Asstro
05-07-11, 22:32
One of Keke / Annie's girls was taken away in handcuffs last week. Keke probably got reprimand for no massage license.

Todahi
05-10-11, 00:26
One of Keke / Annie's girls was taken away in handcuffs last week. Keke probably got reprimand for no massage license.Yes, my friend actually was there when the cops raided the place. Apparently, HPD swat took it down hard. He said he was never more afraid in his life. He thought the place was actually a legit massage parlor. He got off because they just started the massage when the door was kicked in.

Stay safe guys.

Tsunami69
05-10-11, 12:39
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/20110510_prostitution_expected_to_surge__for_APEC.html

Caught this article in the paper this morning. By reading some of the blog, I think some of you here post there as well. LOL There is a paragraph that quote Katherine Xian. (The one who heads up PASS) She is a racist be*itch that needs to be stopped."It will bring hundreds of Asian businessmen with diplomatic immunity that may not view prostitution as a crime," Xian said. Why didn't she just say businessmen? There will be more than just Asians here for the summit. Even Obama himself will be here. I realize the "A" APEC does stand for Asian but imagine the outcry had she said blacks, hispanics, etc.

Well enough about that, point is brothers be extra careful as I do expect stings to go up until after the summit. They will most likely focus on the visible stuff such as street walkers and CL ads. KB's may be in the crosshairs too, though not as much.

Oh and has anyone actually seen Katherine Xian? That is one fugly woman! She looks like a troll. I think she has a chip on her shoulder and is just jealous that guys pay to have sex with other girls but she is so hideous that she would have to pay someone to have sex with her!

Johnny14
05-10-11, 14:13
[url]http://www.staradvertiser.com

Oh and has anyone actually seen Katherine Xian? That is one fugly woman! She looks like a troll. I think she has a chip on her shoulder and is just jealous that guys pay to have sex with other girls but she is so hideous that she would have to pay someone to have sex with her! Xian looks like a MAN and I won't have sex with "her" even if I got paid to do it doggie style! Even a donkey would lose his hard on and run for cover if forced to copulate with this He-she freak, probably only a vibrator would be appropriate.

How about you guys. Would you pelvic thrust your junior into her ala wai channel?

Numbah One
05-10-11, 14:55
Yes, my friend actually was there when the cops raided the place. Apparently, HPD swat took it down hard. He said he was never more afraid in his life. He thought the place was actually a legit massage parlor. He got off because they just started the massage when the door was kicked in.

Stay safe guysIs Downtown Massage still open? Or is she back at CC.

Jzjz
05-11-11, 01:34
Xian looks like a MAN and I won't have sex with "her" even if I got paid to do it doggie style! Even a donkey would lose his hard on and run for cover if forced to copulate with this He-she freak, probably only a vibrator would be appropriate.

How about you guys. Would you pelvic thrust your junior into her ala wai channel? Dude, don't bag on Katherine Xian. I heard she's a female advocate because she heard the cry for help from her apartment window from a girl in Waiks who was getting raped. She didn't do nothin, and felt helpless and then dedicated her life to safety for women. Sounds like the lesbo version of Peter Parker turn Spiderman. Doesn't hurt she's into chicks too I hear.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to stand on her soapbox. I like my mongering just as much as anyone, and am careful thesedays.

Maybe if Jzjz was gov and Xian Lt Gov, we could clean up the hobby to cut out pimps and let consenting adults partake in mutoally agreed services. The problems not sex, its abuse. She mixes up sex for abuse.

Head Lock
05-11-11, 03:54
Don't know where it is on Facebook but there is an article on the KITV website.

Member #4671
05-11-11, 06:13
Yes, my friend actually was there when the cops raided the place. Apparently, HPD swat took it down hard. He said he was never more afraid in his life. He thought the place was actually a legit massage parlor. He got off because they just started the massage when the door was kicked in.

Stay safe guysThat explains why Nan is on the straight and narrow path recently. Be safe out there brothers!

Waikikian
05-11-11, 12:41
That explains why Nan is on the straight and narrow path recently. Be safe out there brothers!I'm pretty sure, if you're raided, then you just broke the lease! Or she could be a Catholic! On church property!

Ocolumbo
05-11-11, 14:41
Dude, don't bag on Katherine Xian. I heard she's a female advocate because she heard the cry for help from her apartment window from a girl in Waiks who was getting raped. She didn't do nothin, and felt helpless and then dedicated her life to safety for women. Sounds like the lesbo version of Peter Parker turn Spiderman. Doesn't hurt she's into chicks too I hear.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not going to stand on her soapbox. I like my mongering just as much as anyone, and am careful thesedays.

Maybe if Jzjz was gov and Xian Lt Gov, we could clean up the hobby to cut out pimps and let consenting adults partake in mutoally agreed services. The problems not sex, its abuse. She mixes up sex for abuse.Dude, don't bag on pimps. 6'5" soul brother was a victim of racist America, grew up in the ghetto in a broken home, witnessed drive bys and crack dealing since he was a kid. The MAN put him down all his life and if teenage, white runaways from the midwest need a daddy figure, who is he to deny them?

Thumperforq
05-11-11, 20:01
Orange County arresting the girls for indecent exposure:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/05/my-entry.html

Relax808
05-12-11, 16:03
I saw this post on BP. Scarey! Probably been noted already but just in case. From yesterday 5/11.

Stings on Kapahulu. Watchout if the girl asks you to park there and that she'll meet you out front. She'll walk you into the alley next to the Queen liliuokalani Hotel. Police will bust you from there. Happened to me and a couple others tonight.

Skinman52
05-12-11, 17:56
I'm pretty sure, if you're raided, then you just broke the lease! Or she could be a Catholic! On church property!Someone posted that Annie & her girl (s) got arrested and taken away in handcuffs. I tried calling her for a coupla days after the report was posted. No answer. Then she calls me back yesterday with some excuse as to why she did not pick up my calls and denies that she got a visit by LE. She blames those posts on the girl that took her old space in CC on the 11th floor. So you know what? The hell with all this BS! Skin and all his monger bros will just have to be very careful about mongering these days because of all the write ups and ongoing police stings. You'd think busting johns and hos would be very low on the LE priority list with all the destructive activity being committed by the scumbags selling and using crystal meth! WTF? Speaking about drugs. Legalize pot already! If it was readily available legally. Maybe meth addicts would have been instead. POTHEADS! What does a pothead want to do when stoned? 1) Eat (pussy, food) 2) Sleep 3) Spew jizz 4) Spew more jizz 5) Jerk off while watching porn. Taxpayer dollars being spent by LE on surveillance activity, stings etc. Go spend your time catching the REAL bad guys out there instead of bothering us horny fucks who don't get it at home with our wives & SO's! DAMMIT! Sorry bros. Just venting because I have not had any for a coupla days because of life circumstances and finding that I got to increase my blue buddy dosage nowadays. Getting old is a real drag.

Be safe. Skin

Numbah One
05-12-11, 21:20
I saw this post on BP. Scarey! Probably been noted already but just in case. From yesterday 5/11.

Stings on Kapahulu. Watchout if the girl asks you to park there and that she'll meet you out front. She'll walk you into the alley next to the Queen liliuokalani Hotel. Police will bust you from there. Happened to me and a couple others tonight. Wait a minute. Did money exchange hands? Doesn't sound like it! How can they bust you if you're just walking to the room?

I smell 5-0 here!

H Mobius
05-12-11, 22:36
Orange County arresting the girls for indecent exposure:

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/05/my-entry.html

Watched the video and those girls looked fine to me. If they're not appreciated there, they're welcome to come here and work at Happiness, Sandy's Place, Club Sandy, the v-AMPs, and maybe even some of the k-AMPs. We need an infusion of quality high-visibility eye candy especially in our vbars, but every sector including BP indies can always use sexy girls IMHO.

Tsunami69
05-13-11, 12:50
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/121764318.html

Here we go again. APEC upcoming so seemingly sting are on the rise. I think they are busting places now to make the general public and politicians happy. Everyone will in turn lay low for a few months and then when it is safe to go out again it will be about time for APEC. Coincidence? I think not! My theory is they (LE and politicians) have to do this for posturing but they want everyone to "come" back out around APEC time because quite honestly Hawaii needs the money. The providers will make money and in turn spend it on Louis Vuitton, Chanel, etc. The mongers, local and visiting, are happy and will be more likely to be out spending money on food, beer, and gifts for the girls.

Only bad thing for us locals is we will take a back seat to the big spending APEC guys and the girls will be a bit spoiled for a while afterwards.

Otis C1
05-13-11, 16:02
Wait a minute. Did money exchange hands? Doesn't sound like it! How can they bust you if you're just walking to the room?

I smell 5-0 here! To prosecute the hobbyist, PD doesn't need money to exchange hands. All they need is for the hobbyist to agree to make monetary payment for sexual service. Once the UC officer hears what she needs, you are going down. So do what ever it takes to avoid this. The usual call providers that have been reviewed here on USASG or by friends etc.

Blake123
05-14-11, 04:37
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/121764318.html

Here we go again. APEC upcoming so seemingly sting are on the rise. I think they are busting places now to make the general public and politicians happy. Everyone will in turn lay low for a few months and then when it is safe to go out again it will be about time for APEC. Coincidence? I think not! My theory is they (LE and politicians) have to do this for posturing but they want everyone to "come" back out around APEC time because quite honestly Hawaii needs the money. The providers will make money and in turn spend it on Louis Vuitton, Chanel, etc. The mongers, local and visiting, are happy and will be more likely to be out spending money on food, beer, and gifts for the girls.

Only bad thing for us locals is we will take a back seat to the big spending APEC guys and the girls will be a bit spoiled for a while afterwards. One has to wonder how many REAL crimes were being commited in Waikiki during this bust.

Numbah One
05-14-11, 05:00
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/121764318.html

Here we go again. APEC upcoming so seemingly sting are on the rise. I think they are busting places now to make the general public and politicians happy. Everyone will in turn lay low for a few months and then when it is safe to go out again it will be about time for APEC. Coincidence? I think not! My theory is they (LE and politicians) have to do this for posturing but they want everyone to "come" back out around APEC time because quite honestly Hawaii needs the money. The providers will make money and in turn spend it on Louis Vuitton, Chanel, etc. The mongers, local and visiting, are happy and will be more likely to be out spending money on food, beer, and gifts for the girls.

Only bad thing for us locals is we will take a back seat to the big spending APEC guys and the girls will be a bit spoiled for a while afterwards. Just hypothetically,

What if you make a verbal agreement to pay for sex and it comes out later that you don't have any money!

There would be no intent, on your part, to commit a crime. Wouldn't everything then become just hearsay talk!

Many years ago, I knew a Federal Attorney, who used to say,"Talk is Cheap, I want to see action"!

Is that all out the window too!

Punsai69
05-14-11, 13:50
http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/breaking/121764318.html

Here we go again. APEC upcoming so seemingly sting are on the rise. I think they are busting places now to make the general public and politicians happy. Everyone will in turn lay low for a few months and then when it is safe to go out again it will be about time for APEC. Coincidence? I think not! My theory is they (LE and politicians) have to do this for posturing but they want everyone to "come" back out around APEC time because quite honestly Hawaii needs the money. The providers will make money and in turn spend it on Louis Vuitton, Chanel, etc. The mongers, local and visiting, are happy and will be more likely to be out spending money on food, beer, and gifts for the girls.

Only bad thing for us locals is we will take a back seat to the big spending APEC guys and the girls will be a bit spoiled for a while afterwards. Another thing about these APEC guys is a lot of them have diplomatic immunity so will not get arrested even if they get caught.

Tsunami69
05-14-11, 14:26
Another thing about these APEC guys is a lot of them have diplomatic immunity so will not get arrested even if they get caught.I would say a few of them are diplomats but not all. Diplomatic immunity is an agreed upon practice amongst participating nations but is more of a tradition and formality these days. It is not as simple as it seems on TV where you can do anything you want by running amuck in a country and then simply saying "I have Diplomatic Immunity". In the USA you will almost always be arrested and charged with the offense no matter who you are. After that it is up to the prosecution / government as to whether or not the matter would be pursued. If in fact you are a foreign diplomat and immunity is not waived by your home country you will most likely be expelled back to your home country. Your home country can choose to waive immunity and allow you to be prosecuted, prosecute you at home, or "let you slide". Some agreement has to reached on more serious crimes as we are not going to allow someone to come over and murder someone then just simply get back on the plane as if nothing ever happened and go home.

Of course if you are not an actual diplomat and just a regular foreign citizen, all bets are off and you are in deep kimchee. Well, sort of as US laws and punishments are way less severe than most other countries.

Enough about that though, let's see how we can literally get the most bang for our buck. That should be the theme for APEC or they should at least give a seminar titled,"Mongering in Today's Economy". LOL

Just hypothetically,

What if you make a verbal agreement to pay for sex and it comes out later that you don't have any money!

There would be no intent, on your part, to commit a crime. Wouldn't everything then become just hearsay talk!

Many years ago, I knew a Federal Attorney, who used to say,"Talk is Cheap, I want to see action"!

Is that all out the window too!

No money has to actually change hands as you agreed and the intent was already there. Example is if I agree to buy drugs from you and I don't have any money I have already attempted to buy. Or, if I ask you to kill someone for me for say, $10,000 but don't actually have said money, I am still guilty of conspiring to commit murder and attempt.

By the way, confirmed all of this with one of my drinking buddies who before private practice was working in the federal prosecutor's office.

Tract
05-17-11, 15:54
It is unfortunate that Kathy Xian has been so successful in promoting herself as some sort of savior for women held in abusive situation by pimps. The facts of her agenda can much better be determined by visiting the PASS website at www.traffickjaming.org. Or by visiting the capitol website at www.capitol.hawaii.gov And looking at the text of anti-sex legislation such as SB 2045 CD 1 from 2010 or HB44 CD 1 and HB 240 CD 1 from 2011. This is a moral crusade to abolish prostitution. In it prostituted people include strippers and other currently legal workers. Tough new sentencing is advocated for madams, strip club owners, johns, and even a cab driver who gets a kickback from a sex worker for sending her trade.

I can be reached directly at tracyar@hawaiiantel.net For anyone who would like a private conversation on these matters. I also recommend the sex worker's rights website at www.APLEHawaii.org

PopoloGirl
05-18-11, 01:28
I would say a few of them are diplomats but not all. Diplomatic immunity is an agreed upon practice amongst participating nations but is more of a tradition and formality these days. It is not as simple as it seems on TV where you can do anything you want by running amuck in a country and then simply saying "I have Diplomatic Immunity". In the USA you will almost always be arrested and charged with the offense no matter who you are.Oh Yeah, Mr Strauss-Kahn can testify to this as he sits in Rikers on suicide watch. If anyone should have Diplomatic Immunity, it would be the chief of the IMF!

Waikikian
05-18-11, 19:20
Oh Yeah, Mr Strauss-Kahn can testify to this as he sits in Rikers on suicide watch. If anyone should have Diplomatic Immunity, it would be the chief of the IMF!Do you realize how many guys would kill for his position as head of the International Monetary Fund.

That's why I say, he could very easily have been framed! And he might go to jail a long time, since it sounds like they got him, where he can't get out!

Jetli316
05-19-11, 18:23
Do you realize how many guys would kill for his position as head of the International Monetary Fund.

That's why I say, he could very easily have been framed! And he might go to jail a long time, since it sounds like they got him, where he can't get out! No way he could have been framed. In this day and age there are so many conspiracy theorists that it boggles the mind. Just like Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. First you got to get the maid to make the accusation and keep her mouth shut. Forever. Then you got to get the NYC detectives go go along. Then you got to get the the to go along. A man like Strauss probably has friends in high places in the US and someone has to keep his allies in check. So, I highly doubt he was set up.

Kamabokos
05-20-11, 20:10
Yes, my friend actually was there when the cops raided the place. Apparently, HPD swat took it down hard. He said he was never more afraid in his life. He thought the place was actually a legit massage parlor. He got off because they just started the massage when the door was kicked in.

Stay safe guys. I just visited Jing earlier today and looked for broken jabs from the doors being kicked in. I didn't observe any broken door jabs on the front door or 2 rooms. Also, I have never heard of SWAT being used in MP bust. Normally, it's just Narco / Vice Officers.

May be your friend was exagerating or this post is made up.

Dech Awer
05-20-11, 20:46
Oh Yeah, Mr Strauss-Kahn can testify to this as he sits in Rikers on suicide watch. If anyone should have Diplomatic Immunity, it would be the chief of the IMF!You get immunity if you're in country on official IMF business. He said from the very start, he was there on vacation.

Waikikian
05-21-11, 02:26
No way he could have been framed. In this day and age there are so many conspiracy theorists that it boggles the mind. Just like Obama wasn't born in Hawaii. First you got to get the maid to make the accusation and keep her mouth shut. Forever. Then you got to get the NYC detectives go go along. Then you got to get the the to go along. A man like Strauss probably has friends in high places in the US and someone has to keep his allies in check. So, I highly doubt he was set up.We may all be surprised at the trial.

Jzjz
05-29-11, 17:15
MSNBC running 1hr documentares today on prostitution in different states like Texas or Florida etc. Anyone watchum?

Waikikian
05-29-11, 21:30
MSNBC running 1hr documentares today on prostitution in different states like Texas or Florida etc. Anyone watchum?But after 5 minutes, I usually shut it off. Since, it's the same ole crap we all know and love. Totally boring. SOS.

Honolulu1
06-05-11, 12:34
Battle of the sex trade.


Concerns over prostitution and the welfare of victims are slowly prodding a toughening of Hawaii laws.

By Vicki Viotti

POSTED: 01:30 a. M. HST, Jun 05, 2011.

INTRODUCTION.

It's called the world's oldest profession, and it's not exactly a new phenomenon in little Waikiki, either.

What is new is that Honolulu is about to move under the white-hot glare of international attention, and prostitution is not exactly what Hawaii leaders want to have front and center.

The advent of the Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation meeting in November has left Waikiki residents anticipating that the influx of some 20, 000 attendees will create a surge in prostitution. And advocates for legislation to protect the victims of sex trafficking are afraid that the Waikiki sidewalk crowds will include some who were pressed into service against their will.

Kathryn Xian probably has the pressure of that impending event to thank for the legislation that finally was passed in the 2011 session, after years of her lobbying. Xian is director of advocacy for the Pacific Alliance to Stop Slavery, which this year pushed for passage of House Bill 240, the first measure that attempts to address the issue of sex trafficking in some way.

'We've been at this with them for six years, ' Xian said. 'The previous administration's view was that if it (the law) was not broke, don't fix it. And also because the victims were viewed as part of the problem. '

HB 240 is still under review by Gov. Neil Abercrombie, who has until July 12 to sign it or veto it; otherwise it becomes law without his signature.

This measure wasn't what Xian and other advocates first proposed, either this year or in previous years. What they wanted was the creation of a new section of law to deal expressly with sex trafficking, establishing a set of new criminal terminology in which the person drawn into the sex trade is defined as a victim, not as a prostitute.

But Xian's complaints about the Linda Lingle administration notwithstanding, the current city prosecutor agreed with the former governor that the sex trafficking bill offered both in 2010 and 2011 was the wrong approach. New legal definitions often get challenged in court, Keith Kaneshiro said, so he found Lingle's veto to be based on sound reasoning.

Instead, Kaneshiro's staff worked with state Sen. Clayton Hee and other lawmakers to craft a bill aimed at working within tried and tested legal definitions.

'We thought, 'Why don't we try to take the concerns of the human-trafficking people and look at how we can address the concerns? ' he said. The result was a law that offered witness protection to those coerced into prostitution if they testify against those profiting from their work; hardened penalties against the people who got them into it; and toughened penalties for the 'johns' who frequent prostitutes.

The term 'sex trafficking' never appears in the bill.

Hee believes it will work, because it focused on the needs of people affected.

'It's always one thing to construct laws in the abstract, ' he said, 'but this law resulted from real-life people sharing real-life examples. '

———

The Polaris Project is a national nonprofit that bird-dogs all the state legislation aimed at curbing the trafficking of youths and adults into the sex trade. In the eyes of its policy counsel, Hawaii is beginning a long trek upwards from the absolute bottom of the heap.

It's not taking a path the group generally prescribes, said Jim Dold, but maybe that's OK. Whatever works.

"Sometimes the best approach is just going in there and increasing penalties," Dold said."Each state has its own issues, and each state is responding differently."

That charitable assessment aside, Polaris still officially has Hawaii listed as one of the "Dirty Dozen": the 12 USA states lacking in large measure the laws it favors as weapons in the war on sex trafficking.

It's hard to know how or whether Hawaii's grade will improve once the fate of House Bill 240, as well as some other measures, is decided. HB 240 is the primary measure dealing with the issue that passed in the recent legislative session, and it's unknown whether Gov. Neil Abercrombie will shepherd it finally into law.

The 2011 bill takes a different approach from legislation that passed last year, only to be vetoed by then-Gov. Linda Lingle. At that time lawmakers passed Senate Bill 2045, which created a new section criminalizing "sexual human trafficking."

The veto dismayed its advocates, but upon taking office, Honolulu City Prosecutor Keith Kaneshiro examined the issue and ultimately agreed with Lingle's reasoning.

"Using the word trafficking, we never had trafficking defined," Kaneshiro said."And there's going to be all kinds of interpretation, so of course it's going to delay. It's going to go to the Supreme Court for a firm definition.

"It's in vogue to use the term, it's politically correct. That's the term that's going around, and everybody's using now," he added."For us in the legal system, it may be in vogue but now it has to be tested. It's going to cause more problems for us."

Instead, Kaneshiro's staff worked with the Senate Judiciary Committee chairman — Sen. Clayton Hee — and other lawmakers to toughen up existing statutes that target the demand side of the prostitution problem, adding penalties for the "johns," as well as for those making the biggest profits.

Groups worried about the state's approach to human trafficking were uneasy that there was no terminology in law distinguishing the pimps for willing prostitutes from those engaging in what they view as a modern-day form of slavery. But Kaneshiro is resolute on that point.

"One of the things the human trafficking people wanted: 'Can't you use, instead of calling it "promoting prostitution," can you call it "sex trafficking?"' And I said no. It's going to deflect from what we're trying to accomplish."

The focus of HB 240 is the "promoting prostitution" section of the statute, and if the bill becomes law, people who coerce or push people into prostitution through fraud will be considered to be committing the offense. These are people who are sex traffickers by another name, Hee said.

"This is the best effort by lawmakers to put together broad-based approach to sex trafficking," he added.

Hee's counterpart chairman in the House, Rep. Gilbert Keith-Agaran, agreed, but acknowledged that hardening the statutes won't be enough. Whether it's sex trafficking or any other kind of human trafficking — such as the Thai slave labor being prosecuted in federal court — better training of law enforcement and government agencies is an important component.

"One of the lawyers for the Thai laborers said one of the victims of trafficking at the farms went to an official at the labor department to complain, but (the official) didn't look into it any further," Keith-Agaran said.

The actual impact of legislative changes is hard to gauge, given that there are no clear numbers on trafficking to serve as a baseline. Kaneshiro said getting a better idea of the scale will be one job for his office.

Also unknown: whether providing witness protection to the victims of sex trafficking will help.

"For all these people who testify and say they're victims, not too many have come forward to say, 'Can you come and prosecute the people who fostered this? '" Kaneshiro said.

Some people have their doubts. Tracy Ryan, who chairs the Libertarian Party of Hawaii and who has favored the legalization of prostitution, does not object to prosecuting those who are truly in the trade against their will or through misrepresentation of some kind.

But there are many cases of prostitutes who were convinced their pimp loves them, she said, and not many of them are willing to step up as witnesses for the prosecution.

Among her other objections are that prison populations and costs will increase; that few johns are repeat offenders, making the new "habitual solicitation" offense pointless; and that many offenders are engaging in a consensual act.

"The rational bases for the whole set of ideas is not supported by any real understanding of the sex industry and seems primarily aimed at pandering to the wishes of radical feminists who have zero expertise," she said in an emailed response to the Star-Advertiser.

One of the primary advocates of sex-trafficking legislation is Kathy Xian, and she takes exception to that characterization. Xian said her Pacific Alliance to Stop Slavery organization has intervened for six years on behalf of those she prefers to call "prostituted persons." Very little about what they do is consensual, she added.

"After you establish trust with them, they all say the same thing: 'Nobody in their right mind would do this, '" Xian said.

"The unfair bias against women is the assumption that a woman would want to engage in prostitution," she added."Reality says to us that that is not the case, but that these people have been relegated to a very small choice, and we would argue that it isn't a choice. These traffickers steal these girls' lives away."

Xian agreed that better statistics would help, but she predicted that new protections for victims will drive better prosecution.

"Come July 1 when they take effect we will see more traffickers come to justice," she said."And we will see more victims come through our doors, so social services better get ready."

Honolulu1
06-05-11, 12:35
Laws on Prostitution in Hawaii


Hawaii attempts to toughen prostitution laws.

By Vicki Viotti

POSTED: 01:30 a. M. HST, Jun 05, 2011.

Here are the bills passed by the 2011 Hawaii Legislature that relate to prostitution, especially as it relates to human trafficking. They are awaiting a final decision by the governor before they become law.

HB 240 — Promoting Prostitution; Witness Security and Protection.

This measure attempts to crack down on the primary profiteers and those who solicit prostitutes (the "johns"). Offers priority access to witness protection to victims who testify against promoters of prostitution to bolster the chances of successful prosecution. Reclassifies promoting prostitution in the first and second degree to a class A and B felony, respectively. Expands the offenses of prostitution and solicitation of prostitution to cover patrons of prostitution. Adds "habitual solicitation of prostitution" as a class C felony to further discourage johns who are repeat offenders.

HB 141 — Hawaii Penal Code; Labor Trafficking.

This bill more broadly covers labor trafficking. But to the extent that it applies to a case of sex trafficking — such as when a victim's documents are unlawfully withheld — it's being seen as another weapon to counter sex trafficking.

HB 44 — Prostitution; Solicitation.

This measure attempts to discourage prostitution in a broader area. It creates the offense of "solicitation of prostitution near schools or public parks" as a misdemeanor. The offender is a person who "offers or agrees to pay a fee to another person to engage in sexual conduct.

Waikikian
06-05-11, 13:46
Battle of the sex trade.This law will take away a lot of Male tourists, who come to Hawaii with their families, hoping to find their own "Private Escape time in Hawaii. A drop in Tourism, will be the only effect in Hawaii. Other destination, such as Vegas and California will take these revenues.

It seems like, in Hawaii, one hand is used to cut off fingers on the other hand! The former Republican Governor knew, all too well, but kept to herself, the loss in future revenues, Hawaii would experience.

Come on Legislatures, let's not cut off your nose, to spite a little face!

Waikikian

Head Lock
06-05-11, 20:33
In today's paper:

A Kalihi bar accused of allowing prostitution on its premises lost its case on Thursday before the Ho*no*lulu Liquor Commission.

Club Fire and Ice, at 727 Waiakamilo Road, was fined $1, 600 and found guilty of failing to suppress lewd conduct, allowing an employee to drink on the job, and overlooking another employee violation on Oct. 15.

Bar owner Chong Jones defended her bar before the commission and accused an undercover officer of setting up her employee.

http://www.staradvertiser.com/news/hawaiinews/20110605__Panel_fines_Kalihi_bar__after_lewd_conduct.html

Member #6232
06-07-11, 03:19
Laws on Prostitution in HawaiiSo can anyone dicepher in layman terms the language of HB 240 in ref to the statement,"habitual solicitation of prostitution" as a class C felony to further discourage johns who are repeat offenders." Exactly what constitutes a habitual solicitor and repeat offender?

Enthusiasts such as those that partake must be equally informed and aware of the language of the laws, their intent, and the possible impact it may have on everyone.

Perhaps the worlds oldest trade may have to go underground. Independent contractor might be another option, but, only time will tell. Lets hope things don't get to hard for those in the business voluntarily and enthusiasts alike. It is afterall, part of the economic machine.

As for the lawmakers in office, the public who voted got them in office and the same votes can get them out of office, so exercise your rights, esp the right to vote before these same lawmakers begin to take what rights we have remaining.

Alohaz,

O

Illicit2
06-07-11, 04:51
Just curious. New to the game and wondering why there are not more reported bust at "Relaxation" places like 7, Ichiban, and PT? It seems these places are ripe for the LE picking. At least some of the massage therapy places operate under a license and a patron could use a more legitimate excuse for being there. Can someone fill me in?

Ocolumbo
06-08-11, 23:43
Just curious. New to the game and wondering why there are not more reported bust at "Relaxation" places like 7, Ichiban, and PT? It seems these places are ripe for the LE picking. At least some of the massage therapy places operate under a license and a patron could use a more legitimate excuse for being there. Can someone fill me in?Could it be there has been some common sense among law enforcement and politicians in town? That these places provide the safest and cleanest environments for adults to have consensual and commercial sex for decades in Hawaii? That the economics of the industry argue against the risk of coercion and human trafficking? That there are too many girls in too many places trying to make the big bucks, and no coercion is needed.

That is why they would be the biggest targets of the religious prudes and militant feminists. Not because human trafficking and coercion may occur there, but because they do NOT occur there. The lack of coercion and human trafficking is what the activists fear the most. It undermines their reason for existence and ideological agenda.

Tract
06-12-11, 17:52
Habitual solicitaion requires two prior convictions in the past ten years. To be convicted one must be guilty of offering to pay, agreeing to pay, or paying another person a fee to engage in sexual conduct.

For example a man approaches a woman on the street and offers money for sex. This is a violation of the law with a thirty day in jail sentence possibility. If she offers the sex for money and he accepts he is also guilty. If the person paying is convicted two more times for the same offense within the ten year time fram the penalty is bumped up to five years in jail.

Those who feel this is a bit much should express those feelings to their legislators or vote them out.


So can anyone dicepher in layman terms the language of HB 240 in ref to the statement,"habitual solicitation of prostitution" as a class C felony to further discourage johns who are repeat offenders." Exactly what constitutes a habitual solicitor and repeat offender?

Enthusiasts such as those that partake must be equally informed and aware of the language of the laws, their intent, and the possible impact it may have on everyone.

Perhaps the worlds oldest trade may have to go underground. Independent contractor might be another option, but, only time will tell. Lets hope things don't get to hard for those in the business voluntarily and enthusiasts alike. It is afterall, part of the economic machine.

As for the lawmakers in office, the public who voted got them in office and the same votes can get them out of office, so exercise your rights, esp the right to vote before these same lawmakers begin to take what rights we have remaining.

Alohaz,

O

Tract
06-12-11, 17:55
Common sense can prevail unless it is assualted by a fear campaign as is now being waged by PASS. A cardinal rule of politics is that lies defeat logic unless there are numerous people who will stand up to the lying.


Could it be there has been some common sense among law enforcement and politicians in town? That these places provide the safest and cleanest environments for adults to have consensual and commercial sex for decades in Hawaii? That the economics of the industry argue against the risk of coercion and human trafficking? That there are too many girls in too many places trying to make the big bucks, and no coercion is needed.

That is why they would be the biggest targets of the religious prudes and militant feminists. Not because human trafficking and coercion may occur there, but because they do NOT occur there. The lack of coercion and human trafficking is what the activists fear the most. It undermines their reason for existence and ideological agenda.

Numbah One
06-12-11, 20:55
Habitual solicitaion requires two prior convictions in the past ten years. To be convicted one must be guilty of offering to pay, agreeing to pay, or paying another person a fee to engage in sexual conduct.

For example a man approaches a woman on the street and offers money for sex. This is a violation of the law with a thirty day in jail sentence possibility. If she offers the sex for money and he accepts he is also guilty. If the person paying is convicted two more times for the same offense within the ten year time fram the penalty is bumped up to five years in jail.

Those who feel this is a bit much should express those feelings to their legislators or vote them out.In that case, there has to be an alternative to, just coming out and asking for money. For instance, if a code were developed, whereas, a monger could comminucate with a street walking provider, without really offering in plain english for money, then that alternative would satisfy the agreement!

Something similar to walking up to a Chinese provider, on Kuhio Ave and offering her money in the Chinese language.

A new method of communication must be established. That's the only way. Something like the lingo the Beatniks had in the sixties. A new Jargon only understood by "Mongers and Walkers".

So you walk up to a Street walker and you give her the "V" for Victory sign. Except instead of "Victory" it means 2 bills. Then you start walking towards her hideaway and using only small talk.

The use of an alternative "Jargon" must be developed. It's either that or Mongers go to Jail!

Just thinking out loud. Since, I don't do StreetWalkers, anyway.

#1

H Mobius
06-13-11, 00:24
In that case, there has to be an alternative to, just coming out and asking for money. For instance, if a code were developed, whereas, a monger could comminucate with a street walking provider, without really offering in plain english for money, then that alternative would satisfy the agreement!

Something similar to walking up to a Chinese provider, on Kuhio Ave and offering her money in the Chinese language.

A new method of communication must be established. That's the only way. Something like the lingo the Beatniks had in the sixties. A new Jargon only understood by "Mongers and Walkers".

So you walk up to a Street walker and you give her the "V" for Victory sign. Except instead of "Victory" it means 2 bills. Then you start walking towards her hideaway and using only small talk.

The use of an alternative "Jargon" must be developed. It's either that or Mongers go to Jail!

Just thinking out loud. Since, I don't do StreetWalkers, anyway.

#1Yes, BP providers and their "Gift" envelopes ;)

I used to date an oriental WSW and we'd just make eye contact, either from a distance or I'd walk right in front of her. Then we'd walk via different routes to rendezvous at her place.

Getting that first date was the 'hump' though, but I got around that, for she was too hot to pass-up.

Ottiss
06-13-11, 01:05
In that case, there has to be an alternative to, just coming out and asking for money. For instance, if a code were developed, whereas, a monger could comminucate with a street walking provider, without really offering in plain english for money, then that alternative would satisfy the agreement!

Something similar to walking up to a Chinese provider, on Kuhio Ave and offering her money in the Chinese language.

A new method of communication must be established. That's the only way. Something like the lingo the Beatniks had in the sixties. A new Jargon only understood by "Mongers and Walkers".

So you walk up to a Street walker and you give her the "V" for Victory sign. Except instead of "Victory" it means 2 bills. Then you start walking towards her hideaway and using only small talk.

The use of an alternative "Jargon" must be developed. It's either that or Mongers go to Jail!

Just thinking out loud. Since, I don't do StreetWalkers, anyway.

#1That might work, but what if she mistook you for a reincarnated Roman Soldier and thought you were ordering five beers.

Ottiss

Numbah One
06-13-11, 02:46
Yes, BP providers and their "Gift" envelopes.

I used to date an oriental WSW and we'd just make eye contact, either from a distance or I'd walk right in front of her. Then we'd walk via different routes to rendezvous at her place.

Getting that first date was the 'hump' though, but I got around that, for she was too hot to pass-up.What the heck is an Oriental WSW?

Eastsidesurfa
06-13-11, 04:09
Common sense can prevail unless it is assualted by a fear campaign as is now being waged by PASS. A cardinal rule of politics is that lies defeat logic unless there are numerous people who will stand up to the lying.PASS is out of control. I am familiar with them and their leader. The group is run by this lesbian girl named kathy, who is basically a man hater. She also runs "Girlfest". Over the years, its become super clear that she could care lass about stopping slavery as a general crime, but only cares about if its happening to women. Recently, when that Aloun farms case about human trafficking hit the news, she replied that PASS wasn't interested in taking up their cause, because some of the trafficked people were men.

Most of my provider friends are really upset at her for pushing this new legislation. They are all independent and don't have to turn over their money to anyone.

This kathy chick just annoys the shit out of me.

Playboy54
06-13-11, 04:17
Well, I have never heard of AMP girls getting busted. Appears the new law is targeted at the streetwalkers in Waikiki. Whose service really sucks. I remember 5 years ago. They were asking $300 for 1 hour. Not to mention these way over priced call girls on backpage. So am for letting the law go. It will only make in harder for the black pimps in Waikiki. How many hundereds of tourists have been ripped off by pimped out Waikiki street tricks. I suspect many. So this is just my take after being here for 25 years.

Playboy54.

If you paid for pussy in Hawaii, you probably paid too much.

Otis C1
06-13-11, 15:14
What the heck is an Oriental WSW?WSW normally means "White Street Walker" I think in this case it means "Waikiki Street Walker".

Johnny14
06-13-11, 19:20
PASS is out of control. I am familiar with them and their leader. The group is run by this lesbian girl named kathy, who is basically a man hater. She also runs "Girlfest". Over the years, its become super clear that she could care lass about stopping slavery as a general crime, but only cares about if its happening to women. Recently, when that Aloun farms case about human trafficking hit the news, she replied that PASS wasn't interested in taking up their cause, because some of the trafficked people were men.

Most of my provider friends are really upset at her for pushing this new legislation. They are all independent and don't have to turn over their money to anyone.

This kathy chick just annoys the shit out of me. Yeah, allot of these "female" activists are hypercritical (my way or the highway) extremists. I wouldn't be surprised if Kathy, the man hater who actually looks like a man sees the world on human trafficking only in terms of females.

I remember taking a class on social equality at UH-Manoa and the professor was a lesbian feminist who advocated lesbian and gay issues. I wrote a paper on the reasons why HIV spread so rapidly because of gay men having many partners and spreading it to straight women, which became everyone's problem because of them. Even had supporting scientific evidence to prove that 90 percent of HIV cases in Hawaii at that time was gay men. She would NOT even talk about that in class! Goes to show that these bag pipers are only preaching what they feel is important to themselves regardless of the facts on hand.

Funny though before the end of the semester, I was talking to my friend who had his back to her and was bitching about lesbians "belong in the kitchen and the bedroom to service men". That really got her pissed toward my friend, I've seen her coming but wanted to see what reaction she gave.

Maybe Kathy has some inferior complex of not being able to do a "walking urination" without spilling a drop on one's legs as most guys can do, but have to squat down?

Anyways, at least lesbians like her keep the vibrator and dildo industry productive and in business.

H Mobius
06-13-11, 22:17
WSW normally means "White Street Walker" I think in this case it means "Waikiki Street Walker".Yes; I got into acronym mode.