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LexLuther
06-21-06, 17:58
Stoner, an apparently literate individual who has contributed greatly to this board, has suggested I start this thread as a way of continuing a discussion which developed on the South Carolina/Bennettsville/General Topics board. This discussion began when someone complained that he was denied service in a Bennettsville establishment due to his race.

I then commented that it seemed selfish and stupid to me to complain that some white ho would not give you a blow job or fuck you when there are other, more tragic issues concerning race here in South Carolina. One which came to my mind concerned the fact that South Carolina is so far behind the rest of the country in the number of black students who graduate from high school.

An ignorant cracker named Buxton then seized upon this comment to begin a diatribe against teachers. I believe he has crawled back under his semi now and therefore I have no further need to comment on him in that other thread. However if anyone would like to discourse intelligently on the crisis in education in this state, I invite your cogent responses.

Thanks.

Lex

Amosskittow
06-21-06, 18:25
It was somewhat interesting in spite of BB, then he went off on teachers. I KNOW about the education crisis. I KNOW what teachers make and what they don't. I won't say why, but trust me, I know.

What has kept us so far behind in education? Lack of commitment and political will. Our state does not fully fund education on ANY level. Our legislature wastes time and money passing bills forcing the high school league to move state championship football games around to different sites rather than addressing the real needs in our state. We buy used school busses. Our teachers, particularly in rural areas, make do with outdated text books, leaking roofs, and substandard pay. A rural teacher makes about 60-70% of what someone just across the state line makes in a neighboring state. BB, a teachers' pay is based on the assumption built in that he or she is only working 9 months out of the year. Whoops, there go all those "paid for" holidays. Teachers I know commonly work 70+ hrs. per week between time in class, paperwork, and prep time. Coach a sport or two, add 25+ more hours. Have you noticed that the school year now stretches to 10 months out of the year? I could go on, but until our politicians get off their behinds and get serious about educating our kids- we will continue to be last in everything.

Stoner
06-21-06, 18:56
Hahaha...Lex. I do enjoy a good discussion. Just to add some salt to this stew, I invite you to consider that the crisis is not just about race, but about the system in general. The race picture is just a snapshot of tip of the iceberg. More on this later.

FOLKS...this is a long ass post, I don't give a fuk. So if it bores you, don't read it.

One thing I would like to say, re: race and mongering, is that it is rarely an issue -unless- you are limited in venues. I travel to SC very frequently for business reasons, and it is my favorite state in the union to live...and yes, I am black. It becomes an issue when you are abruptly shocked by it. It can really throw you off cause you never expect it.

Over the years in CT and NY, I've come across a handful of venues which call themselves "exclusive". They restrict mainly based on finances. I do pretty well in my chosen profession because my work helps others to get rich. So when I come across these "exclusive" venues, I can swing a bat or two. Some are truly elitist, and I have no desire to drop money like that, but I could if I used money outside of my budgetted "play money" to do so. So these "exclusive" scenes, though sticker shocking, are understandable and agreeable to me. You get what you pay for, without question.

Economics and education in SC is also interesting to note that in some areas, blacks do far superior to the poor whites in their area. Better educated, better financed, with good brick homes, no trailers. It was just such a community I had purchased some real estate to flip, and did pretty good with it. Enough where I was able to secure for myself and a family member some lake front property. This was no urban area, nor was it truly rural SC. I felt successful. I worked damn hard for it.

I was completely happy when I found out about Truckers and SP through these boards. Doing my share of work, I got the contact info, directions, etc..and made my way to check out this venue. I knew it would be nothing what I am used to, but being a man who enjoys a good brothel and a cigar, both of these venues seemed worthy of my patronage. A good brothel can feel like home away from home, without the bullshit of home. You feel me?

Sticker shock is one thing, but race shock is another. No matter what I do, no matter my education, no matter my disposable wealth, the concept that a who-rehouse would actually exclude me based on race shocked me. I didn't expect it, though I remember reading a report about it on the boards. I had beleived in my mind that I can smooth my way in, since, hey...I've got a few shiney coins like everyone else.

That was not the case. Going in, it was clear that I was the northern boy with big pockets coming into a rednecks den of haven. I did not go in overly dressed or anything, but I was not dressed like your stereotypical young black male either. When I entered Truckers, I tell you, you would think that I just raped one of the men's daughters, they gave me such evil damn eyes. No service at the bar, no conversations despite being pleasant back. I did see a brother working in there, but he made zero eye contact my way...you know, the way us blackfolk talk to one another without having to say a word. I tell you, I felt like it was Selma Alabama, and the clock rolled back to 1956.

I exited Truckers once I got the drift, and entered SP. Was given a neutral response while a customer was "waiting" for his attendant. When he left, a kind older woman spoke with me quietly and offered her sympathy that I couldn't partake at this feast. As she spoke, I could hear the fear in her voice as she spoke. Eventually she said words that chilled the bones. "Honey, if they knew you were here and I snuck you in the back, these country boys would string ME on some tree in the backwoods somewhere."

Such a nice woman...yet because of fear, not hers, but of these clients of theres - you guys - a fellow american who works hard can't enjoy himself. She kindly helped me out with some incredible intel, that has since made my trips to Florence better for the most part until recently when the venue changed and went UTR yet again. If anyone happens to have info, man, it would be appreciated...though hunting strippers has sated me well over the past few months in Columbia.

Am I selfish? Am I in the wrong? Sure, I would be happy to see both places busted wide open and laid bare, BUT, and please get this...I don't hate them for being racist. In fact, I find it welcoming and engaging.

Why you may ask? Often the best way to define ones own self is to define your enemy and contrast yourself to them at every level you can. In this, your nemesis emboldens you, sharpens you, and makes you that much more lethal, compared to apathy brought on when you are lulled into thinking "everyone loves me". Such apathy dulls the mind. This is not words of wisdom from Stoner, no...I learned this long ago from Sun Tzu and the Art of War and many great writers, including Sam Greenlee who wrote "The Spook who sat by the door".

Going back to our main topic, in the same way, I think race issues in SC is a great thing. No, I am not advocating segregation or anything of that nature, but I do beleive that in our countries knee jerk reaction to make everying equal, we do a disservice to our kids, especially our minority children. They are lulled into beleiving they do not see an enemy or a problem to define themselves against.

They have no goal to rally against and galvanize them. As a kid, I was steeled up by my family to exceed the standards of my urban school and even the grades of my white counterparts. Why? Because my folks understood that mediocrity is unacceptable because being black and mediocre leaves you in a prison because you have no leg to stand on, and you will always have a culture that will oppose you. You'll never get ahead, and you have active oppononents trying to keep you out.

Instead I was galvanized to go for mine and do well. The majority (caucasian) culture will still oppose me, but at least I still have a leg to stand on and I can advance myself.

I do my part doing volunteer work and, at one point in time, teaching, to help these urban kids succeed. The educational system is against them, and they don't even know it.

A friend and I even went so far as to purchase some old computers, network them together, create a curriculum, and go into the innercity and teach these kids about computers, technology, and the internet back in the late 90's. It was a great. Some kids I even got into some elementary coding and programming...even a website. Eventually, we had just as many adults interested as kids.

We had dozens of people taking the class, we didn't have enough computers! But it was never a stumbling block. No. The one thing that ALWAYS crippled and stymied our efforts was the lack of basic education. I had some kids that were very bright, but taught just the minimum for there age to pass...and it just wasn't good enough.

You see, the kids were put into a "level" and that was considered ok for them. So you had kids in the 5th reading at 3rd grade level. The schools thought it was ok. So when the kid went to the 6th, he was now reading at 4th grade level. The kid was happy, the school was happy. Back in the 70's and 80's, this seemed the wises course of action in order to make kids feel good about themselves and graduate one day with a diploma.

The kid was happy, and the school was happy! But damn it all, the kid would NEVER progress AHEAD of their level in that racket! Never! When a 6th grader goes on to a website designed for 6th graders, it expects kids to read at 6th grade level, not 4th. I couldn't put an 8th grader on that same website, because he could clearly see its for 6th grade level. One boy even quipped about it saying "Teacher, I'm too old for this webpage." Yet the boy could barely read it, let alone get excellent comprehension and apply it to skills!

Yet something should be understood. This is NOT just done in urban schools full of black kids. They were just the testing grounds. This same educational doctrine is used in the suburbs and rural areas of America. As long as white american children still had a family to economically lean on, they could overcome this. But the time will come when gold in the families coffers fades too much. Children will be forced to excel even harder when they are saddled with our burgeoning debt, and the rest of the globe surpasses us. Even now, China is on the stage to surpass us if they can manage to get the economic machine running, and the standard of living higher and higher to American standards.

I haven't put much energy in that program for a few years now. I was too burned out and my own pockets were getting light becuase there was no money to be made from my time.

I've often been encouraged to go into teaching again...if I ever desire to leave my chosen profession. But, to hell with that! No money to be made teaching! I can't afford to go broke while their remains a culture that continuously oppose me strictly because of my race. In South Carolina, that opposistion is vocal and in your face. Yet in the north, it is just as tangible, and even more vicious. I describe it as the razor blades hidden in a scoop of ice cream. Keep licking it up all you want, but eventually you will get cut at the most worst time, in the most sensitive places.

There is no reason or incentive for me, or the many hundreds of thousands of black men like myself to hack off the leg we stand on, to cut our own bootstraps, so to speak.

Am I selfish? Or am I doing what I have to do for myself and those who follow after me? I've done my part and will do so again when economically I've reached the next level. Meanwhile, Stoner must do what Stoner does best...and enjoy his nominal-hedonistic life as long as he can economically sustain it.

LexLuther
06-21-06, 19:55
Stoner,

Thanks much for your thoughtful report. You said some interesting and thought provoking things. Let me just scratch the surface in replying.

I must say, however, that I am saddened by much of what you say. I work in an environment which most people would call middle to upper middle class. The people I work with are mostly white, fairly intelligent and semi-educated. I think that most people would regard them as successful. Some are even religious, calling themselves "Christians."

However what saddens me at times and pisses me off at others is that, like you, they see a conspiracy around every corner. Only instead of seeing a conspiracy against minorities, they see a conspiracy against themselves by minorities. This is such a shame. Because in an environment like modern day America, we can ill afford this type of paranoia and (if I may say) ignorance.

My boss probably earns about $150,000 per year and is well off. He is not a prejudiced man. However a week or so ago when we were preparing for the primaries, I asked him whom he though would make a good candidate for superintendent of schools. His response to me was: "Why do you care about the schools?". It never occurred to him that although I am single and without children or grand children, I might have a reason to care about how the children in my state are educated. What a stupid attitude.

I believe you are correct in what you see in the future. I believe that America is headed for 3rd world status. One reason I think this is that while countries like China are producing well educated children, America is producing people with diplomas who can't read, can't write, and sure as hell can't think. I've seen that in the newly hired professionals in my work environment. No one has taught them to think.

But unlike you, I don't blame this on any kind of conspiracy. I see it as a failure of all of our citizens to see the side on which their bread should be buttered. This environment of mistrust and anger just muddies the waters.

Lex

Bill Buxton
06-21-06, 21:12
I don't run from anything and never have,I take care of me and my own just fine in my self gotten ivory tower.Big words and intellect, maybe, but that was not what paved my streets with gold.Any person can get a job but it takes guts to start from nothing and build from there.

I give much back to kids but don't agree with the system.I see kids slacking off and doing just enough to get by.Mabey the dollars you chase make you feel better and give you a feeling in your mind of superiorty,thats good, accomplishment, being someone.Thats very apparent in your words towards this cracker.Did I cast a slang at you or refer to a Mobile home cotton field A watermelon patch not I.You called me CRACKER why is that ok but if I called you a ( WELL YOU KNOW WHAT) I am a bad person,racist,bigot,whatever,please tell us all WHY?

Sounds like the hangup is with you Lex not me I am fine and will make sure my truck never runs out of gas,and will always be capable of taking care of one's who I love.You worry about yourself and you stated it was just you,If you lose your job are make a mistake someday it's only you.The smart guy with no one but himself and the shame of having working class parents.You are a fucking joke.If you were the boss that you said had money you would not be satisfied even then.Because you want everyone to see what a smart good young man you have been.We all have opinions and I just gave you mine and I have read yours about me,thanks for your high powered perseptive criticisms now look in the mirror and cast the same at your self.You work for a paycheck every week,People depend on this IGNORANT CRACKER EVERY DAY,day in day out week by week,not just one person but families with kids.I make a mistake and they loose along with me,sure I can weather the storm longer but where would I be without them, and me without frends.You go to your office and worry about "you" and the friday Paycheck and worry about the bosses money more than yours,why?he must have more responsability because that's what they give to the people in charge,benafits for extra service.

You worry about the small stuff and the color Tye you ware and I will worry "sometimes all night" about the great people that depend on this ignorant persons business savvy for there livleyhood.Guts not brains you gotta play big to Winn big is my story and you don't get there thinking like a droid like a cow following the same path each and every day.But how would you know mr university,You do what the man tells you to do not what it takes to make decisions about yourself and other whole families.

WORLD FAMOUS;

B.B...

LexLuther
06-22-06, 07:22
Dear Bill,

When I called you a cracker, that was not a slur against your race. That was a slur against your ignorance. I wish you could read better than you write so you could see how stupid your thoughts seem to other people. Your writing, apart from being done poorly, gives evidence of a person who can't think well.

As I mentioned before, you seem to be a person who is full of anger. Anger can be a fine thing. Anger can act as a catalyst which propels a person to accomplish admirable things for himself, his family, society. But generalized anger is not good. That kind of anger in a person will destroy relationships and eventually the person himself. But before that happens, there is usually damage done to the other people around the angry person.

So you have some big problems fella. You are ignorant and very angry. It's possible that with some therapy or medication you could learn to deal with your anger, to focus it. But as the man said, "You can't fix stupid."

In closing, brother Bill, I believe that the biggest problem for a guy like you is that even though you express a great deal of undirected anger toward everyone and everything else in your circumscribed world, your real anger and hatred is toward yourself. You hate who and what you are.

Regards,

Lex

Bill Buxton
06-22-06, 08:05
Mask your words with whatever you have to and go on.Education cant make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

B.B...

Old Rebel II
06-22-06, 08:25
Find another place to discuss race and politics. This is not the place to discuss your true "colors".

Stoner
06-22-06, 09:09
Bill means well, Lex. Don't be overly hard on the man. He just hates to lose, no matter what the cost. Time and circumstance is the only difference between being the town's fool or president of the united states. Both time and circumstance can be taken, in the space of a heartbeat.

As for our topic, consider something. There is a difference between systemic evils and conspiracy. I do not beleive that the education system is a conspiracy...it was just put together with faulty logic. Its machinations, though working well, damage the goods it makes, as it produces a qualified citizen. Some get mangled, some develop rips or tears. Some get completely contorted and are left insufficient.

Take our drug laws for instance. Logically, if you sell a box of crack cocaine in South Carolina, or you sell it in Delaware, you should get a similar punishment. Nothing cruel or unusual...a punishment that fits the crime. Yet with our current drug laws in place in most states, if you sell drugs within a mile of a school, a church, or similar venue, you will suffer an extended sentence than if you did outside of that "green zone". This was to discourage drug dealers from selling to kids as they left school or church. In theory, its a very reasonable concept. But the devil is in the demographics. The cities are overloaded with schools, churches, etc. Its a dense construction. Particularly in black neighborhoods, a church can be found on every block. Where there isn't a church, there is a school around the corner. In essence, if you sell drugs in the city, you are doing an extended, stiffer sentence or "bid".

So here you set up two demographic tests. Take ten white teen who fucks up in the 'burbs, and ten black teens who fucks up in the city.

The white teens who sells crack or heroine to his friends in the burbs will get a consistently lighter sentence than the ten black teens. They may all face the same County Court judge, who realizes the disparity. They aren't evil and see easily that their is a real issue here. But there hands are tied. Why? Because the well intentioned law is on the books.

5 years later, you take a look at these two demographic test groups. The lighter sentence kids from the burbs are more than likely out. In many cases, leniency is placed, or they (or there families) paid for a lawyer to soften the sentence. It is easy for them to put up a bond in most cases, since they have several generations of land owners who can assist if they so choose.

Not so with the poorer black teens. They are more than likely still in prison, or in the correctional system in some capacity. They did not understand their rights because they were never taught them. They probably went with a public defender and simply plead guilty to get it over with.

This, my brother, is a systemic evil. Is it conspiracy? Not likely. I don't think there is a mastermind at work keeping blacks oppressed. But this systemic evil, however, is quite oppressive. The same crime, the same age group, yet due to demographics,

This is just one of a myriad of systemic evils.

We all understand that prison is far from being a corrective facility these days. Often, they are coming out jaded, hardened, and more determined than ever.

Now, if you were to look at the statistics, you'll see a skew between these two demographics. But the "reasons" behing the skew is never promoted...nor will it ever be mentioned. Why? Because its beyond the scope of what the "reporter" is trying to say. The general public is easily duped put in print. They beleive the statistic and reinforce their own fears and doubts with this knowledge.

No, not a conspiracy, Lex...a systemic evil. Just as damaging. Just as oppressive...worse even. Because intelligent men like yourself don't recognize the evilness of it and unthinking perpetuate it.

I won't even go into the shell game of statistics itself. Using hard numbers, you can shift things various ways to prove ones point, yet still claim veracity.

LexLuther
06-22-06, 20:07
Hey Old Rebel II,

Go fuck yourself!

Stoner,

Yeah, the drug issue is a tough one. I'm not sure what the right track should be there. On the one hand, I don't believe it makes sense to put people in jail whose only crime is drug usage. But on the other hand, I think some drugs such as crack cocaine and heroin are killing a whole generation of our children.

Hell, I used drugs as a youngster. I used grass, LSD, even tried horse once. Personally I would like to see more done on the treatment and education side. But I definitely don't think all these youngsters should be incarcerated, especially with hardened criminals. And I agree that due to a lot of reasons, black youth suffer disproportionately.

I sometimes think that the ills of society must be way too complex for the average person to understand or deal with intelligently. I think another problem is that the media and politicians pander to the fears of what's left of the middle class. It seems that a lot of people enjoy walking around thinking about what they have to be afraid of instead of what they have to be thankful for. There's not a lot of love in our society. But then when you see folks like Old Rebel II or Bill Buxton, you don't feel much love either, just disgust.

Lex

MeatMan
06-22-06, 20:56
Old Rebel II,

This is his thread and he created it. It's you who have come to change the furniture(or something like that)

OneNut
07-24-06, 19:13
Gentlemen,

While I am coming late to this thread I would like to add my opinion. I lived in SC for two years. While not a native to SC I did not have a gold lined pocket as a child. I grew up on a farm in Iowa and while we had food that is about all we had. I joined the Army and spent enough years in it to retire. After retirement I joined the Corporate world for three years, two of which was in SC. My observations of people while there is what I wish to add to this discussion on education.

I interviewed applicants on a weekly basis for the two years I was there. What I observed was a very wide spread across educational abilities. In my opinion, the education system in SC, at least in the area where I lived, seemed adequate to provide a good education. There were teachers who had the qualifications to teach and their hearts were in it; the schools weren't falling down or makeshift; and the extra curricular activities kept the kids involved past the regular school hours.

What I feel is part of the problem with the education levels of those you speak is a combination of two things; the past and the present. The past is a manufacturing economy where you did not need an education to get a job at a mill where you were supposed to be able to work forever. A past where family bonds are strong and the encouragement to "get a job at the mill" to take care of the family since "Dad, Brother, or Cousin" just got injured and can no longer take care of his family because there is no health insurance offered by the "Company" is even stronger than the family bonds. The present is a continuation of the past except there are fewer jobs. However, the family ties are still strong and the encouragement to get that job is still there. The peer pressure and family pressure to take care of the family versus get your education so you can take care of the family is not existant in some areas of the society.

I interviewed many a person, young and old, who did not finish school so they could take care of the family. Many were glad to get a job so they could take advantage of the educational assistance from the Company I worked for.

One particular individual that worked for me had a tough time keeping his job because of family. He was not a talented worker when he came to my department but he had heart and gave it all to learning. He could not afford his own place and lived with family. He almost lost his job on several occassions because of family. The family would take his car to the store on an errand and not return in time for him to go to work, we picked him up. His family, would not pay the power bill with the money he provided which resulted in his alarm not going off on one occassion. A family member took his car to buy drugs and had the tires shot out. A family member told him he should quit his job so he could babysit while she looked for a job.

I use this person as an example, but I have many stories that are the same. If education were a priority in the minds of the mothers, fathers, sisters, and brothers of SC then perhaps more people would finish High School. Perhpas pay scales would increase, and perhaps the socio-economic structure would change.

Only my opinions, you are welcome to comment or bash as you see fit. Thanks for allowing me to reply.

LexLuther
07-24-06, 22:31
OneNut,

Good report. Well stated. I'm sure that what you say is probably largely true. I think my point when I started this thread is that SC is at the bottom of the stack where education is concerned.

No matter what is at work to make SC such an educational backwater, if the state wants to move ahead, create and maintain jobs, then people have to figure out what the problems are and work on them. You are right. The old industrial jobs are largely gone. This state must educate its people and then try to lure new jobs into the state.

Just my opinion.

Lex

PWhipped
07-26-06, 10:52
I love the education you and I get at our fav Asian places(grin) E-mail me if any new stuff is out there. This thread above my intellegence level(grin).

Remember, I live in Ga. LOL Wet dreams, PW

LexLuther
07-26-06, 15:26
Hey Jimmy,

Good to hear from you. I remember you were under the weather a while back. Is everything ok now?

Lex