Sexual Addiction Reports

[Admin]

Thread Starter.

[Broad St Guy]

Happy New Year All (even you Psyberzombie). Civ2000


Thanks for that great post Civ2000 - it really sounded familiar.

[Best Tx Monger]

To my significant other,

Sorry that you will never-ever be able to read this letter. It is a cry-out for help. Last night I went out on the streets again. I did the deed for one reason, for the thrill, not because I think that they are better looking then you, but because of the danger involved.

After i got done with the session, this sense of guilty overwhelmed me and i felt ashamed and felt bad for myself for the low life that I am. All throughout my lifetime my parents taught me to have morals, it appears that this addiction has kicked that hard work out the window.

It is not fair to you that I cheat on you, but I can't stop, and as it appears, I don't want to stop because i keep posting on here. It is really a shame that you will never be really able to get to know everything about me, for that I am sorry.

Each one of us has a secret that is deep and profound. If everyone knew everything about us, then what would I have for myself. ?

-007

[Robocock]

That's pretty rough Z3. I saw from a post that I followed from a photo that you were trying to quit this in 06. I decided to do the same but left the door open a crack. Haven't failed yet, but took a stroll down one of Denvers SW spots Yesterday. Was thinking I would just see skanks and re-inforce my decision. I saw one young hottie giving a car the look, so I had to swing around and see if she was for real. It was quite a bit north of the usual area. She was gone by the time I got around the block, so she either got picked up as a SW, went into a building, or got picked up by a friend/bus, whatever. I don't think I would have done anything more than the Pickup, LE check, and just a future callback if she was there, because I really had to be somewhere and had no cash. But, I cussed myself a bit for breaking down so soon.

I am trying to limit my street activities to specific targets that have been posted as something I don't want to miss. But, that's probably not too smart either, because the last time I did that I was out a month, a few addicts and skanks later, I finally got to my target. Good Luck to all who made a resolution. Robo.

[Member #1705]

I read a lot of the reports with interest. I have been in the hobby for 10 years. Most of my experiences have been with agencies. I had luck with a few sw in mass and in fl. I find the agencies girls, though expensive, very young and beautiful. I agree with one of the posters that the thrill of being with an 18 year old girl and to believe for a few minutes that she wants to make love to you is quite a thrill. I only feel guilty if the girl turns out to be a dog. I try to keep it to $250 per time and maybe 2 a month. I have a few regulars now too in Boston and NYC. I've actually taken one of my regulars and her daughter to Disney World. My wife hates to have sex. So for me it's the companionship as well as the sexual release.

[Best Tx Monger]

Edited
Jan 19 2006

[Smiling Fox]

completely unbelievable, the guilt that drips though this site is pathetic. if you do the deeds, then why be guilty. guilt is a culturally imposed emotion to keep you with in the accepted norms of a society. you have been coopted by the society of feminists and politically correct socialogist to believe you are wrong and should feel guilty because you have hormones and are doing what is natural to your manhood.

let the guilt go. go out and monger or dont. but dont let the "guilt" beat you down.

oh one other thing,,,,,,,, miracles,,,,, THE ONLY MIRACLES IVE SEEN LATELY IS ON GROCERY STORE SHELVES, MIRACLE WHIP.

Smiling Fox

[Garthy]

I have to admit-- I am an addict. I know it. Shit, you would HOPE z3 would know it too. He posts all over this board for all kinds of stuff. Many good posts too! (esp in the Dallas area!)

That last post of his was kinda pathetic that I hope he either; 1) takes control of his addiction and STOPS POSTING AND MONGERING (cause you can't have it both ways), or 2) realizes he has a disease and limits the damage it is doing (either financially or physically).

Posting sad and mournful posts is not a road to a cure.

Hope he stops suffering.

[Garthy]

That last post was not meant as a slam to him.

I suppose a little self-destructive behavior is acceptable, but if you are suffering SO MUCH from your mongering, drinking, gambling, lying, etc., then professional help is probably a good idea.

He is a great poster and I meant no disrespect.

[Garthy]

Shit--

z3 pulled the post I was referring to.

oh well. Denial is more than just a river in Egypt ya know!

[Civ2000]

Z3, Hey, Don't let some detractors drag you or this thread down. Most of us really enjoy what you have to say and it probably helps a lot more guys out than you think.

You are right where you need to be. In the book I mentioned a few posts back, it would describe the phase you're in as pre-recovery. It is as necessary to the recovery process as any other phase. When the pain of continuing the addiction becomes greater than the pain of quitting the addiction -- you will quit.

My suggestion would be to find a SAA meeting in your area. All you have to do is google sex addicts anonymous. Go to a couple and see if anything resonates with you. You've got nothing to lose. And then go from there. Dallas literally has five or six meetings a day. PM me and I'll even email you a schedule.

Good Luck! Civ2000

[Best Tx Monger]

Thanks for the luv C2K.

[James D 2004]

Z3, I can advise you on your new year resolution. Go to hell, if you survive you will be cured.

Hook up with some brothels with some lineup. In your case the sleazier the better. If you are addicted on the convenience, you may lost the interest to cruise. Earn your stripes, and then the keepers will call you when they has good merchandise. For the quality and convenience, it's irresistible to turn them down. you will be very busy. You may have to pay more, but that's part of the plan.

Upgrade. Like good food, nice cars and nice house, it's pretty hard to go back on what you had before. You will soon find yourself living from pay check to pay check. The lack of cash will stop you from your activities. This is even more dangerous for those who have large credit limits and large home equities and considerable 401k's. You are really close to hell if you are so self-destructible as to spend all those.

Strike for perfection. If the provider is young, look for a good looking one, and vice versa. If she's all that, push for GFE, DFK, BBBJ, AR, anal, etc. And look for some deeper personal connections rather than one night stand. Take her to dinner dates, shopping and weekend escapes. This will deplete your asserts faster, and probably you will appreciate more and more what a real GF provides.

If you survive all that, you will be rich, or you will find a GF that give all that for free. If you don't survive, I'm happy to send you a holiday card.

[PsyberZombie]

http://www.break.com/index/springbreakbabes3.html

http://www.break.com/index/springbreakbabes1.html

http://www.break.com/index/springbreakbabes2.html

.... and don't for·get to left·click on the video to enlarge the image


p.s. to James D 2004 =

I don't know what makes you tick , but , *boy!* , I hope it's a Time Bomb !!

[Broad St Guy]

completely unbelievable, the guilt that drips though this site is pathetic.


There always has to be a douchebag like "Smiling Fox" to come and make an ignorant comment like this. Kind of like the crackhead that thinks they do nothing wrong or an alcoholic who thinks it is ok to continue drinking.

Shut up douchebag if you have nothing positive to offer other than your 8th grade perspective.

[Civ2000]

There always has to be a douchebag like "Smiling Fox" to come and make an ignorant comment like this. Kind of like the crackhead that thinks they do nothing wrong or an alcoholic who thinks it is ok to continue drinking.

Shut up douchebag if you have nothing positive to offer other than your 8th grade perspective.

Agreed. When someone like "Smiling Fox" feels the need to shit all over a thread, I think it is probably because we hit a nerve with him. He's out of control, spending way too much money, whatever, and is worried that he too may be addicted, but as long as he doesn't feel any guilt like some of us, that makes him okay in his own mind. DENIAL!

Alcoholics will vehemently deny their problem all the time, and criticize everyone else who is taking responsiblity for their problem.

Anyway, if Smiling Fox doesn't have anything positive, or at least helpful or constructive to say, he should just read and not comment, as his words are a waste of time and bandwidth.

Civ2000

[Smiling Fox]

i generally dont really care if you think im a doushbag or not. but i feel the need to rebuttle the comments. if you read my post carefully. you will notice that i am railing about the dripping guilt, oh my god the guilt..... say it again the guilt. guys if you are addicted or not. its your business. if you need to share with your fellow mongers thats fine. but you are doing yourselves a great diservice by allowing society to weigh you down with the self imposed guilt. they have taught you, brain washed you, ingrained it into your very fabric to be guilty. dont be.

look i empathize with you guys that feel you cant control your hormonal urges. and i know an addiction can be very trying and hard to break. there is a bevy of socioligists that can help. but most of them will try to make you feel guilty. because its "wrong" to do what we do. try to get help, try to straighten yourselves out, do what ever you need to do. but let the guilt go. it eats you alive, makes you feel bad about yourselves, and guilt is just not neccessary.

i am sorry i cant explain these thoughts about guilt, i just know that whether your addicted or not. its the guilt that is killing you now. not the addiction. and there is a very big differnce.

sorry for blabbing on. and i apologize if i have insulted anyone. it was not my intention. i have just learned over the years that guilt is a sociatal emotion designed to control humans. i have given up guilt. if i do something that i wont feel good about, i dont do it. and im frankly not guilty about my sexual behavior. as a matter of fact, im having the time of my life.

douchebag like "Smiling Fox" --- eh - well maybe i am , maybe im not.
be safe out there.
Smiling Fox

[Civ2000]

Myself, I don't feel any guilt, nor has anyone tried to make me feel guilty for my addiction. I don't see guilt pervading this thread, except perhaps for a guy or two who is remorseful for cheating on his faithful spouse, in which case guilt is an appropriate emotion, assuming of course that the guy is not a sociopath.

Me, I simply see that the addiction has lowered my quality of life and thus I try to reduce or quit the hobby when I can. When successful, my finances immediately improve, I spend more time engaging in healthy life-affirming activities, get closer to friends and family, my work productivity increases, and am generally happier. As I've stated before, guilt is not part of the equation for me.

The same basically is true in meetings. Guilt plays a small part in guys being labeled sex addicts. Sure, there is the guy or three who gave his wife herpes because he was barebacking 3 hookers a week, and now to save his marriage he agrees to go to meetings and counseling to quell his addiction. These guys are there out of guilt: Again, given the circumstances, a completely appropriate emotion.

So, yeah, I guess for a decent guy with a conscience, most feel guilty when cheating on their wife. Maybe Smiling Fox couldn't care less if his mongering affected those he loved, but most guys would. And I have been to a bevy of professionals, all were very caring and none tried to lay a guilt trip on me.

[Best Tx Monger]

The lessons and tribulations that I have learned in the sport are so apparent and obvious to me now. This is a fantasy world that i am inhabiting in.

A ver deep, dark fantasy world at that. Start digging into the "inner circle of trust" that exists within USG community and you will find yourself immensely immersed in the darkness. It does exist, and it will suck you in and spit you right out.

There is another thread on the board regarding a recent TV show about "sex addiction". Admit it or not, most of us are sex addicts. I admit it ! I have come to one conclusion that may sound harsh to some or many that love this site.

Hobbyists, we are the addicts, the providers are the dealers, and guess what? USG is the crack house and our ticket to such fantasies. If you can understand this concept then you can live and function in the "real world".

-007

[Best Tx Monger]

Interesting difference between hobby and addiction. So, Jay Leno has a car and motorcycle collection that is the envy of anyone who likes motorized vehicles. You can only drive or ride one at a time. Is he addicted? Or is it simply his hobby?

I have a friend with a watch collection of over 50 watches. We only have two wrists, so why have 50 watches. Again, addiction or hobby? Yet another friend is a wine collector, with over 4,000 bottles in his cellar. Even drinking one bottle every day for the next ten years, he'd still not get to the end.

So I ensue these two paragraphs with the most vital question of all. Are the things listed an addiction or hobby ?


-007

[Civ2000]

Interesting difference between hobby and addiction. So, Jay Leno has a car and motorcycle collection that is the envy of anyone who likes motorized vehicles. You can only drive or ride one at a time. Is he addicted? Or is it simply his hobby?

I have a friend with a watch collection of over 50 watches. We only have two wrists, so why have 50 watches. Again, addiction or hobby? Yet another friend is a wine collector, with over 4,000 bottles in his cellar. Even drinking one bottle every day for the next ten years, he'd still not get to the end.

So I ensue these two paragraphs with the most vital question of all. Are the things listed an addiction or hobby ?


-007

Z3, That's an easy question to answer. I'd say: Not Addicted. Hobby. Here's why: As I've wrote before, one of the hallmark symptoms of addiction is the continuation of the activity despite negative consequences. In 12-step meetings this is referred to as "unmanageability". The alcoholic who continues to drink despite health problems, job loss, spouse loss, numerous DUI'S, etc.

Now, at least for Jay Leno, his hobby brings him pleasure; he can certainly afford it; and it probably hasn't caused him to suffer. Thus, not addiction.

On the other hand, if the wine collector has a habit of purchasing high priced bottles of wine that he can't afford and is headed towards bankruptcy court, then perhaps, but I doubt it.

Unmanageablility and loss of control are the vital questions here.

[Best Tx Monger]

.
Scenerio 1
Drunk driver all over the road and he never has gotten stopped for D.U.I. He keeps on drinking and cannot ever control it. He has an addiction to alcohol !

Scenerio 2
Here you have a drunk driver that has an addiction and he keeps drinking and getting dui's all over the board through his years.

So are you saying that Scenerio 1 is not an addict, and the guy on Scenerio 2 is ?

-007

[Civ2000]

Scenerio 1
Drunk driver all over the road and he never has gotten stopped for D.U.I. He keeps on drinking and cannot ever control it. He has an addiction to alcohol !

Scenerio 2
Here you have a drunk driver that has an addiction and he keeps drinking and getting dui's all over the board through his years.

So are you saying that Scenerio 1 is not an addict, and the guy on Scenerio 2 is ?

-007

No, I'd say they're both addicted, with addict #1 being the luckier fellow, at least in regards to driving. I'd say that addict #1 has had negative consequences as a result of his alcohol addiction, just not necessarily the same as addict #2.

[James D 2004]

I have been out of the scene for couple months simply because when you tried the best (Angel and Ms. Anal during last summer) nothing seems to entice me anymore!

I just happened to be driving on Holt around the same time as CP Tuesday afternoon and saw the two chicks he had on his pics. I didn't get a very good look of the face of that chick in red top but if you're an assman, she's a 9+.

I too saw that innocent looking brunette walking eastboad crossing Mountain. She has that lazy walk, not really trying to turn on anyone and didn't have must makeup on. She's cute already w/o the makeup, that means she's very cute!

Nice warm day perhaps may have direct effect on when these pretty chicks decide to hit the track. I don't think I see either chicks on CL. Most chicks would walk the track and post on CL on the same day when they travelled to that area to work.

Happy Chinese New Year! It's the year of the DOG - hound dog want some pussies tonight!!!
This shows that my strategy works.

[Member #5605]

No, I'd say they're both addicted, with addict #1 being the luckier fellow, at least in regards to driving. I'd say that addict #1 has had negative consequences as a result of his alcohol addiction, just not necessarily the same as addict #2.


As a counselor at a DUI program (and working in the field the last 2-1/2 years!), I'd have to say that the scariest person out on the road (short of cell phone users while driving!) are the UNREPENTANT, ALCOHOLIC DUI driver's with continual access to motor vehicles! And here is the fun part-there is NOTHING in CA law that denies them ANY access to ownership, and access to a motor vehicle! Don't you love how our government can keep us safe by doing things like "suspending a license" and requiring ONLY a DUI program of DUI offenders?

[Best Tx Monger]

The following is a post that got pointed out to me recently. The forum member is Cladestine72. This post is from Texas under the Other Areas reports. This post was dated 1.04.05.

This post hits home extremely hard. Many of us have been struggling to quit this sport but yet continue on, not knowing what gene makes us tick for sw. The only thing that has stopped me this winter is the weather.

Otherwise when Spring starts to blossom, so do the sw. Well this report hit home because this character Cladestine72 was an active and participating member. That is until his wife found out and actually posted on this site as to how she felt.

Read about and let me know what you think. It is very disturbing and one of the reasons as to why many on this site are just lurkers

-007

Click on the following to view the post !

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=333500&postcount=1

[PsyberZombie]

And that was the guy's Last Post here

Since he obviously just got booted by his wife or S.O. , you'da thunk he would have needed this place more than ever

May·be he just changed his Handle — which Jackson will gladly do for you if you just ask him to


There's a Lesson to be learned here =

Erase your computer's History before you log out of here ; and dis·able the 'auto·complete' feature , so the woman in your life doesn't accidentally stumble across this site

[Asain_Ucker]

Jus want some feedback. Im a mid 40's married monger. Up to maybe 6 r 7 years ago any asian female did nothing for me as far as attraction. I even joked at cowokers who were banging them and telling me how hot it was. I worked with a few asian girls and never even look at them sexually although over time one started looking better and better since we been isolated together and away from others at the work place. This I felt was just the male urge since no other females around. I'd go to strip bars and when it was the asian girl's turn to dance, I always find time for a bathroom or snack break since they didn't interest me.

Well one night I was in mood and there were no hookers on the street, so I decieded to try one of the AMP's that are always open. I enter one and a mamason greets me and treats me with hospitality. At this point I have no idea what to expect since it's my 1st time at an AMP. Momason ask for house fee, I ask dumb questions bout the girls she shows me the selection. I pay fee and in walks the cute kgirl.

I get nervious and run out and the mamason gives me my $ back and I leave. A few nights later I return and try again. This time I stick it out and what a surprise I get. This cute kgirl just fucks me like a fucking machine,I never been in heaven but that was close to it. Anyway since that day,I must have fucked 100 asian girls and spent close to $10k on this hobby. I guess i do have the fever. Any comments would be welcomed.
Thanks
AsianUcker

[Civ2000]

Jus want some feedback. Im a mid 40's married monger. Up to maybe 6 r 7 years ago any asian female did nothing for me as far as attraction. I even joked at cowokers who were banging them and telling me how hot it was. I worked with a few asian girls and never even look at them sexually although over time one started looking better and better since we been isolated together and away from others at the work place. This I felt was just the male urge since no other females around. I'd go to strip bars and when it was the asian girl's turn to dance, I always find time for a bathroom or snack break since they didn't interest me.

Well one night I was in mood and there were no hookers on the street, so I decieded to try one of the AMP's that are always open. I enter one and a mamason greets me and treats me with hospitality. At this point I have no idea what to expect since it's my 1st time at an AMP. Momason ask for house fee, I ask dumb questions bout the girls she shows me the selection. I pay fee and in walks the cute kgirl.

I get nervious and run out and the mamason gives me my $ back and I leave. A few nights later I return and try again. This time I stick it out and what a surprise I get. This cute kgirl just fucks me like a fucking machine,I never been in heaven but that was close to it. Anyway since that day,I must have fucked 100 asian girls and spent close to $10k on this hobby. I guess i do have the fever. Any comments would be welcomed.
Thanks
AsianUcker


Sounds like you're having a great time. What's the problem?

[PsyberZombie]

Jus want some feedback....

You don't mention your own race , but sociologists have long recognized that when it comes to inter·racial relationships , by far the most common matchings are white man / asian woman ; and black man / white woman

Think about it = when was the last time you saw a couple that was asian man / black woman ??

Those last two demographic groups are also the ones least likely to be married or other·wise involved in long·term relationships

I'll see if I can dig up the article were I read that ; and the explanation for WHY it occurs = it originally was printed in a journal called NATIONAL REVIEW

Mean·while = Be a smarty !! Enjoy your Asian Party !!

[Asain_Ucker]

zombie and civ2000,

I am half white and half native american. Thanks for the info. I am enjoying the asian party. I was just courious if I was a bit wierd now, since asian girls are the only ones that really turn me on. White still do a lil, mex not much, and black not much. I mean up to age 35 or so I thought asian girls were the worst looking girls around. Flat asses, lil or no boobs, slanted eyes, broken english, but now it's a complete turn on. I guess I'm tired of seeing fat or plump older american girls with stretch marks, cellulite and other turnoffs.

Zombie if you find that info on the journel let me know.



You don't mention your own race , but sociologists have long recognized that when it comes to inter·racial relationships , by far the most common matchings are white man / asian woman ; and black man / white woman

Think about it = when was the last time you saw a couple that was asian man / black woman ??

Those last two demographic groups are also the ones least likely to be married or other·wise involved in long·term relationships

I'll see if I can dig up the article were I read that ; and the explanation for WHY it occurs = it originally was printed in a journal called NATIONAL REVIEW

Mean·while = Be a smarty !! Enjoy your Asian Party !!

[PsyberZombie]

Zombie if you find that info on the journel let me know.

Here's an 'Abstract' of the article in question =

Is Love Colorblind?
By: Sailer, Steve
7/14/1997

The article analyzes interracial marriage and its impact upon Asian men and Afro American women. According to the 1960 to the 1990 Census, white-Asian married couples increased almost tenfold, while Afro American-white couples quadrupled. The reasons cited for the increase are greater integration and decline of white racism. The problem for Asian men and Afro American women is that intermarriage does not treat every sex/race combination equality. The article cites facts about intermarriage and how they violate conventional sociological theories.

[Best Tx Monger]

In the following link, here is a guy (Clandestine72) that got caught by his S/O.

This is one of the many of the reasons why this sport is so dangerous BUT yet so enjoyable at the same time because of A Danger That Lurks Around The Corner.

The report can be found on the January thread of "Other Reports" in the state of Texas, fiscal year 2005. Needless to say, the wife wrote a report, then i guess he logged on and view what his wife wrote "Yikes!"

Since then, has either used another alliace on the forum or is no longer participating in the sport, or at least publically he may not !

This is an example of what may be the consequences of an addiction, events like this make people change, usually for the better !

-007

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=333500&postcount=1

[Muff Scout]

Z3,

I saw that report previously.

There are so many ways to get tripped up in this hobby, from credit card receipts to those toll paying devices in our cars to computer footprints. People in general don't realize what a trail of crumbs we leave behind during our everyday activities.

Just between us though, that guy was dumb to not at least password protect his computer if his SO had access to it. Lesson learned the hard way.

I went back and read his previous posts. Compared to me, he was pretty tame. She probably would have castrated me in my sleep. From her high and mighty tone, I'll bet he is better off without her.

Muff Scout

[Member #3943]

Im in south carolina near greenville, you know your addicted when u go to one of the amps and have done the 3 girls there , and then go to one of the brothels nearby and have done the 2 ladies there, then at another amp, Im so close to them they baked me a birthday cake and eat lunch with them at least once aweek but no extras at this amp just a friendly atmosphere type thing, is it I enjoy the latter amps company and they make me feel not guilty. ?? oh well , sometimes Im good fora month or so then just got to have some ??

[Third Eye]

In the following link, here is a guy (Clandestine72) that got caught by his S/O.
...
This is an example of what may be the consequences of an addiction, events like this make people change, usually for the better !

-007

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=333500&postcount=1

Quite agree, Z3. Reading that was tough to face. I wanted to look away but made myself absorb every word. To see things from the perspective of the lover who's being betrayed. There were simpler times when I didn't need this... complication in my life and I really wish I could find a time like that again.

3rdI

[Bad Bad Boy]

I went back and read the entire thread and came away with a few observations. Your posts really gave me cause to think in more detail about the subject which I have never done before.

First, it appears that those mongers who are primarily feeling gilt are the ones who are either married or have SO. I didn't sense these guilt feelings coming from single guys as much.

Second, was the distinction or definition between a hobby and an addiction. While they may appear to be similar at first glance, they are quite different. I agree with those who say an addiction is an uncontrollable urge to do something that may have negative consequences.

Third, betrayal and hurting of a loved one appears to be the primary reason for feeling guilty for your actions.

Fourth, sexual addiction, like any other addiction, is a very hard thing to break and there are often relapses to contend with.

Fifth, to best deal with your addiction, you will first need to be sincere in wanting to rid yourself of it and be willing to undergo considerable counseling to understand the root causes of it and attend various support groups.

Six, recovery is a constant uphill battle and a day-to-day thing.

This is really an interesting topic and has given my a lot of food for thought. I really appreciate everyone's willingness to share their opinions.

BBB

[Member #3943]

Bad boy u make a lot of sense, I fall into a lot of those catergories, but hey im 56 yold so better get while i can.

[Block Partier]

Passwords are good. If you erase your history and your SO is half savvy then the very erasure is an automatic conviction. Try using a different browser entirely. And use a different windows login ID too. But then theres keystroke trackers and there's no hiding from those. Anything you can do to monitor your kids she can do to monitor you. Makes me glad for this short moment that I'm totally single right now.

[Fred Reed]

I have found that running a LiveCD version of the Linux Operating System offers very good security. Nothing is saved on your hard drive. The best part is that it doesn't use Microsoft Windows for anything!

To learn more visit: http://www.knoppix.org/

Fred

[Civ2000]

I have found that running a LiveCD version of the Linux Operating System offers very good security. Nothing is saved on your hard drive. The best part is that it doesn't use Microsoft Windows for anything!

To learn more visit: http://www.knoppix.org/

Fred

You'd think a senior member would be smart enough to post security information here:

http://usasexguide.info/forum/showthread.php?t=371&page=1

rather than in the middle of a thread on sexual addiction. But what do I know?

[Benchseats Rock]

But then theres keystroke trackers and there's no hiding from those.


Oh my friend, I am most happy to report to you here and now that you are mistaken. Sometimes it's nice to be wrong eh? Keyloggers are actually very simple little devices. If it is a piece of software, spybot will find it and kill it: end of discussion. If it's hardware, it's a little more complicated than running spybot, but once you know it's there (either between your keyboard and the big box under your desk - or the card type that slides under the keyboard itself) than what's stopping you from fucking with it?

I promise you that if you google "keylogger hack" you'll see that it is easier than you think to simply reprogram the EEPROM memory with whatever you'd want: or desolder it, or fill it to capacity with Lorem Ipsum Text... whatever.

Google is your friend. So are drop out EE students.

Benchseats Rock

[Member #1705]

I find myself falling in love with so many of the great escorts I have used.

[Member #3943]

We wonder why we are addicted to amp's well a hot 25 or 30 yr old beautiful gives you a wonderful hot shower drys you off, always friendly to every detail drys you off, gives u a wonderful massage sucks u then does u and then we wonder why we like to go do it, in my city I have 2 that are great and convient to me. Oh well.

[Ho Watcher]

Google is your friend. So are drop out EE students.

Benchseats RockYep, Google is a friend. I was looking up what kind of spyware LE uses. Seems they have programs that many of the large vendors of PC protection programs have agreed to overlook. So LE can spy and not be detected. Of course they would never abuse the capability I am sure. This is a nation with the rule of law after all. BTW, Kaspersky was named as one of the vendors that refuses to cooperate with LE.

HW

[Constantsorrow]

I thought it was appropriate for my last post to be here in the addiction forum. I am out of here, done, finished. This addiction has cost me more than I can pay. I have lost a family because of this.
I have found a group to help me with this problem and will be doing whatever is necessary to be successful. I am canceling my account and killing my e-mail account.

Never again.

[Benchseats Rock]

I thought it was appropriate for my last post to be here in the addiction forum. I am out of here, done, finished. This addiction has cost me more than I can pay. I have lost a family because of this.
I have found a group to help me with this problem and will be doing whatever is necessary to be successful. I am canceling my account and killing my e-mail account.

Never again.


Godspeed. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[Midwest10]

I thought it was appropriate for my last post to be here in the addiction forum. I am out of here, done, finished. This addiction has cost me more than I can pay. I have lost a family because of this.
I have found a group to help me with this problem and will be doing whatever is necessary to be successful. I am canceling my account and killing my e-mail account.

Never again.


OK whatever! - Look forward to your post later today!

[Member #3943]

Amazing, does it control us or do we control it, I guess according to how much we push the envelope. A lawyer friend of mine said women control all the pussy and money in the world. Makes sense, I too have taken some bad hits, and backed off a bit, maybe being more choosy. Taking friendly partners at local amps, good luck.

[Preverted]

Interesting thread started over here in So Cal forum guys.

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=470532&postcount=957

Regards,

Preverted

[Member #4186]

[This will be quite a long post. I'm sorry if I've over-taxed anyone's patience. I invite you to move on to other threads, if you don't like the way I write. :)
]

I've often wondered if I too am a "sex addict" or merely a guy with a libido, perhaps an active one. Or am I simply a non-conventional thinker who is willing to act in ways that are often outside of society's typical dictates, more so than the normal sheep being fattened in the Dilbert-style cubicle? I know I get fired a lot because of my inability to "fit in," despite markedly amazing ability to perform tasks that contribute greatly to the organization's productivity and profit. Heck, I even TRY to act like I'm "fitting in" and I still get fired. Different issue

For me, sexual addiction / over-drive (yeah, I'll call it "my sex drive is in over-drive") sometimes goes hand in hand with alcohol abuse. Several episodes come to mind, in no particular order.

Once I went to a party where everyone around should have been "on my side" but it turned out that I got so wasted I was effectively without ability to determine my own actions. In the course of the evening, it turned out, I was "date raped" by the hostess. I didn't even know it happened until later when all my memories came flooding back to me -- her holding me down with a heavy chest of drawers and grinding her body on me, other weird stuff.

Another time, I had just discovered Jaegermeister, and after finishing basically a fifth of it while hanging out at a strip club, I then went to drive back to my hotel. I awoke at the wheel of my car facing the wrong direction in the middle of a suburban six-laner wondering how I got there, vaguely remembering the squealing sounds and the sensation of spinning.

Another time, as I headed out for an intoxicating night (you know the feeling, revving it up and knowing you're gonna have excitement) I realized I could MONGER without DRINKING. This didn't cause me to stop drinking, eventually, at later dates, but it did allow me to enjoy my mongering a lot more when I chose to do it sober.

Another time, in a smaller town, I ended up with a wig-clad ageing wrinkled crack 'ho in my car with me. She was bent over my crotch going at it (quite well, IIRC) and I realized she was groping down into the foot-well to snag my wallet. I kept my wits about me enough to bide my time and then try to grab it back from her at a moment that my dick was no longer inside her mouth, but the ensuing fight and violence, rolling about in the back seat of my car, me elbowing her across the jaw with a hideous crack, and so on -- that will stick with me. I got the damn wallet back, and in flight from the scene I threw my monogrammed metal hip-flask (recently emptied of its alcoholic content) out the car window for it to remain relinquished to the powers, no longer in my possession.

Another time, after a binge of street-driving, I ended up with a $10 crack 'ho who let me do her standing upside my truck. Another took me to her trailer in a trailer park in the midst of a semi-industrial area of a major city and explained she was eighteen. She looked fifty.

Sometimes the selection of mongering sober or drunk doesn't seem to be truly "in my hands," nor does the selection of whether or not I'll actually monger at all seem to be "my own volition," though I entirely know that it is, and that any claim otherwise is simply my own weak psyche trying to pass the buck.

One thing I often believe, is that if DANGIT I could get a "decent relationship" with a girl who was "hot enough" for me, I probably wouldn't monger, or want to monger, any more. This may merely be a pipe dream. I have dated some very sweet, nice, girl-next-door types, but none were especially confident about social interactions or about their capacity to "please a man." They were the sorts of girls who didn't know how to put on make-up, maybe tom-boy-ish or just less than wonderfully attractive. Cute but not sexy, maybe. I've had about six or five of these longer-term committed relationships in my life, and for all of them, I knew within the first week that it wasn't destined to last because the girl wasn't sexy enough for me, and nevertheless for all of them they lasted right up to about eighteen months long.

During some of these committed long-term relationships, I mongered (thus, by definition, "cheating"), while during others I did not. I look back now and can't really make a connection among the reasons why or why not -- maybe the more unhappy I was with the girl AS A PERSON (rather than, as a girlfriend), the more likely I was tempted to monger? It isn't exactly consistent, and anyway a sample size of six is rather limited.

Another thing that comes to mind for me, is that as I get older I do lose the "need" to monger. I had a rollicking time in my mid-20s, really wasting a lot of money that would better have been spent on other pursuits. I didn't maximize my monger experience, neither relishing the girls or the setting or even learning more about pleasing a woman or letting a woman please me (lessons all men can go about absorbing into our mental databases all our lives). More, just feeding the need.

Anyway, as I get older, maybe my sex drive is just diminishing -- I used to have so much energy I couldn't sit still to read a book, because after three pages I'd have to run outside to do ten laps around the track. Gaining a little weight actually benefitted my mental powers, because I slowed down, dropped off the "quantum high performance athlete" circuit, stopped trying to be an Olympian at everything I did, and started to be able to sit still longer.

I really think that this partly has to do with having other things to do with my time. To work 40 hours a week ends up taking nearly all my waking hours. What with commuting, eating, bathing, and being at the office from 8 am to about 6 pm five days plus all the "mandatory volunteer time" we all put in, I don't get it all done. Literally. I don't need sex-addicts anonymous, I need sleep-addicts anonymous. (If anyone has any "concierge" style hints about how to fix this problem, I'd be happy to hear them. Paying someone to wash my laundry -- not just the dry-cleaning and pressing, but also the undies, sheets, etc. -- is my biggest time-saving advice, to date. Not having a pet or a yard is another.)

I remember the first street walker I picked up, and the attendant huge amounts of excitement that I experienced. I pumped the air with my fist, jumped up and down in my car, yelled and screamed "wahoo!" as I drove her back to her stroll and left the area. It seemed that a huge load had been lifted, and all the prissy cunts who had blue-balled me in my personal past experience had been "taught a lesson" somehow by the universe at large.

And yes, I had indeed been blue-balled. I had gone to a preppy prissy private college where, basically, I didn't "fit in" (although, as above, I wonder at my ability to "fit in" anywhere at all), and had ended up "cuddle *****" to several girls without ever gettin sum. I wanted a "normal" interaction, a positive relationship, and even if the girl had demanded that she remain a virgin until marriage but was lying there next to me fully clothed and saying "gawd it's hard to resist" but did resist, I probably would have been happy. Instead, I got a lot of manipulative girls who treated me like I was evil for wanting to fuck -- and then off they went to fuck other boys instead. They'd say, when I asked how I could pick up a girl maybe at a bar, "I only ever end up in realtionships with people that are my friends first," but then when I befriended them they'd say, "I don't want a relationship with you because it would ruin our friendship." (If you aren't familiar with the term 'cuddle *****' I'm sure you can figure it out, but there's much more expostulation on it at the 'Ladder Theory' website.)

I basically wasn't wise to this manipulative habit of young women until I was well into my thirties. I haven't ever really gotten "the girl that I want," and instead (see above) have been relegated to dating women whom I deemed as "second best" or "not ideal" or even as "not desirable at all," largely because I am not much of an expert at "playing the games that people play." So, mongering for me is the only way I've found to consistently fulfill a need. If I had better relationship skills (one older British-sounding dude, with his Lindas and Lisas, posting a few years back, probably could benefit from this advice too) then maybe I'd value the act of wooing a woman and having her then submit to me. But I must say categorically, I've never succeeded at flirting and wooing and winning (well, maybe once). The girls go out with me because I'm a better catch than them. This is kind of cool -- "hey, he's so smart and cute I gotta date him no matter how dorky he acts," they seem to be thinking -- but also kind of a dead-end situation -- "hey, he has no skills. I only want him for his money." Same as street walkers.

One big thing I benefit from, is the belief that there's something better to move on to. The girlfriends have all been more interesting to me as people, than most "providers" (prostitutes, strippers, street walkers, web escorts). Sometimes the novelty is necessary for me, but not to an addictive extreme, to the point that I'm ruining my life over it. The alcohol is what ruins my life, and I've just got to damned well admit I'm a problem drinker. I have gotten into some obsessive-compulsive spirals with my mongering, though I have also seen them kind of get back into control on their own (without hitting rock bottom). So, in seeking something better to move on to, I try to believe that I can learn to "land a hottie" and can learn to PREFER the act of TRYING to land a hottie, than the act of cruising the street. I do know the rush, and the zone-out-and-keep-doing-what-you're-doing, of street cruising. It kind of makes me sick to think about it right now, because I associate it with past binge drinking.

Puking a belly full of Jack Daniels on a street girl isn't something positive to remember. Pissing a bladder full of Sam Adams onto a studio lingerie model isn't either. Or going back a week later to apologize, only to find out that in my stupor I had driven off without my pants and DIDN'T KNOW IT. True stories, I am ashamed to say.

Another thing, I gotta mention it, is faith in a higher power. I've never regularly attended church (and frankly I HATE the oppressive Puritanical influence that organized religion has over our society). But when I started reading the "Chronicles of Narnia" books by C. S. Lewis, which I'd recommend to any adult, and to any parent who wants to get his or her kids started on thinking about "doing the right thing" and having a meaningful life, I did have a type of religious growth. I'm a bright enough guy to have already known about things like Aramaic and the Gnostic heresy and St. Thomas Aquinas and the Hegira and Krishna's umpteen arms and Tibetan prayer wheels, and even William James' damn "experiences." I'd read enough Emerson and Thoreau (and sometimes return to them just for solace) but I'd never really gotten that this higher power thing could be something less than intellectual. It's a mental, internal, mind-oriented act, to be sure; just like getting horny or craving chocolate, it takes place mostly in our neuro-transmitters (or whatever you want to call the ghost in the machine). But it's also NOT VERY SMART.

So after I read Narnia, I went on to some of Lewis' other mediations -- his more adult-oriented thoughts on Christianity ("The Screwtape Letters," "Mere Christianity," haven't read "The Problem of Pain") and his sci-fi trilogy (very wonky and dated, like Jules Verne: "Out of the Silent Planet," "Perelandra," "That Hideous Strength"). I found that although I hardly agree with him on the more intellectual points, I still can do two things. First, I can marvel at his own clarity of mind and purpose. (He manages, with all arguments and discussions, to close all doors and seal all windows. His room is contained. I sometimes still feel a draft, but he can sure say he's shut up all sources of wind.)

Second, I can parallel his experience with my own. I know, it's silly, kind of child-like (in the best sense), but I talk to my own personal Aslan. I ask a God-like glowing imaginary lion questions about the direction of my life. I have a personal relationship with him. He doesn't actually offer any answers, usually, and certainly doesn't say anything that I can't construe as something I made up out of my own mind. But I somehow, just because I've been STEEPED in Lewis and faith for a while, can RELY on him and on the SHOW of faith in my life much better than I could beforehand.

And this faith thing makes my mongering more sensible. I can back off of alcohol much better. I take or leave my mongering more carefully. Maybe this is just an illusion, and will fade (like so many other good intentions to leave off of destructive pursuits). I still go visit strip clubs, and I love it, and I really feel very little guilt about it. I am single, and don't have a committed girlfriend, so the only way I'd be hurting someone else by it would be the typical "ancillary effects" that prostitution always engenders, if it does -- the supposed things like helping an addict to pay for her fix, or degrading women by treating them like objects, or all that other twaddle that I can neither shoot down nor defend.

I have other tricks. Here is too much information: I have learned a new masturbation technique (and fer Gawd's sakes! stop spelling it "master" GEEZ!) that involves using a latex vagina and humping it, rather than using my hands. I know, it sounds lame but, actually, get this! It works better! I set the thing up between pillows and towels, lube up, and can still watch internet porn if I want to. But instead of stroking willie with my hand, I am humping the vagina-thang. This allows for not just the release that is necessary, but also something that I had under-valued until I discovered the utility of such a device: the bodily position. By humping with the whole body, and by grasping a plush object AROUND the vagina rather than grasping the dickie himself, you are simulating a wholly different experience. And thereby, you are stimulating different mental experiences, different endorphins.

Maybe this, too, will wear off over time. But for now, it leaves me satisfied that I have "had my girlie fix" rather than merely feeling, "all I did was jack off, so what if I cum or not?" which is how a previous jack-off might have left me feeling.

Because my employment situation is quite lame, I'm anticipating moving cities. I don't know if this will be a good development or a bad one. I do know I'll be seeking somewhere much larger than where I am now, so that means that the opportunities for mongering will increase. Now, I have to drive about 3 hours, either to New Orleans or to Memphis, for adequate strip clubs and massage or provider. I like the clubs, and spend a lot of money on them. I might end up in San Francisco, which is famous for ready availability of mongering opportunities. Will this feed the addiction? Or will the fact that I'm in a larger city mean I'll have more ready social outlets? I know, as I've said, one thing that I wrestle with is the viable opportunity for real social life, with friends and associates as well as with girlfriends. Ideally, I'd be able to slake my sexual desires through non-paid means. I'd still want to fuck as often as I could have through mongering.

Interesting point -- if I "kick" the addiction, but am still fucking just as often though not fucking street walkers or in other ways instilling undesirable activities or experiences into my life, am I still addicted?

Well, this has been quite a long post. It's great that I have the opportunity to present it, and I know a lot of you will just scroll right through it. But if anyone has some bright comments to offer, I'd be happy to hear them and discuss further.

[Civ2000]

Book Guy, That was a great post. Thank you for taking the time to write it and share it with us.

[Hizark21]

Prostitution is all about getting the kind of girl and action you want. If the girl is willing then I see nothing wrong with that.

[Member #4186]

Book Guy, That was a great post. Thank you for taking the time to write it and share it with us.Hey Civ2000, thanks for responding. I'd love to chat more, but after this and a couple other posts, I'm going pretty much radio-silence as far as internet forums go, for a while. I'm moving cities so computer and internet access will be limited while in transit.

And forums are bad for me. They take up too much of my time, obviously. And, an important point, they also contribute to the downward "addiction" (if it really is that) spiral by both sapping my real-world social life, and by immersing me in thoughts about irresponsible mongering (as opposed to "responsible mongering," a concept I still cling to as a longer-term goal) as well.

But if you'd like to write further, or let me know anything that might help me, or ask me anything I might know that might help you, please do send a missive somewhere: my email is at yahoo, with an underscore (but not at e-Bay! that's a different dude!); PMs here at this website might not get checked very often, no more than once every third week or so, but you can try.

I'm just reading the San Fran Chronicle stories about international K-girl trafficking and I'm getting that sinking feeling in my stomach, all about how I ought to behave better and how much time and money and personal psychic stores of "intimacy capacity" and "interpersonal quotient" I've used up on poor investments. I know the feeling will fade when it comes time to go at it again with a hottie, but right now I'm contrite. I don't know how I'd be able to monger, if I had to do without the bargain-basement version. I'm exactly the customer who has been supporting those businesses.

I wonder what your thoughts are, on the idea of "getting enough" from a real-world partner or two or ten? Is it possible? Maybe if all us mongers were to change our professions so that we were in fashion photography (meeting young impressionable models all day) or in screen writing (meeting hot willing failed Hollywood starlets at auditions all day). Would that just be hell in the temptation, or would it actually lead to the possibility of slaking some of these desires?

In the long run, as I look at it from that point of view, I start to believe that ALL men are mongers (well, all naturally heterosexual adult human North American males). Some of us get our jollies one way, some another way, and some just don't ever figure out how to put their resources into trying to get their jollies. Fashion photographers probably are a varied lot, some of them banging all the models and some of them frustrated as hell and going off to the AMPs near the fashion district. The trick isn't to become a fashion photographer, or I'd just go buy up some digital cams and flashes and set up a website. Rather, the trick is to become the one in your circle who gets to bang all the models.

As I was saying, my current theory is to have something better to turn to. That better thing, is a two-fold strategy -- A. on the one hand, clinging to the belief that I'll some day be able to "land a hottie" and therefore get some sexual gratification in a real-world manner rather than in a USASG manner; B. on the other hand, focusing on the serotonin rewards of learning to push another person's romantic buttons (in an effective way) and learning to be an effective Don Juan who can "pick up" girls, and ENJOY the act of getting them to submit to him. (By the way, item B. is fraught with danger. There are a LOT of ways that women SAY they want to be wooed, that they don't actually respond positively to. Different issue, but as long as you know that you shouldn't go about being sappy and romantic in the hopes of making the girl feel romantically inclined towards you, you're avoiding that pit-fall.) To do that, I'll have to start LIKING the act of interacting with strangers who are hot and female. Their frivolity and ineptitude, nowadays, so turns me off that I actually can't stand talking to them even IF they're sending signals that they might want to fuck me (and anyway, I have learned often and the hard way that their sending of signals means, absolutely, jack-squat-zilch). There's a lot about flirting I have yet to understand, before I can make it work for me rather than against me.

So, what I'm looking at is an attempt at a new life focus. It involves, basically, improving my social life to the point that I have some goal-oriented behavior there. Dunno if it will work. Mainly, I don't know if I can remain focused in the way I want. What happens when I go to a club, meet hot girls, DON'T get laid, and get home at 11 pm on a Friday night horny? I think we all know what the next step might be!

I received an interesting PM about my post, too. One fellow suggested I should look into the alcohol abuse, and I do agree. It's a totally intertwined issue. I don't think I am a sex-addict. But I do think I am a binge-drinking alcohol addict, therefore a form of alcoholic.

I hereby admit, my binge-drinking (for that is the form it takes) has been a huge addiction and therefore a problem. I don't know if it is a response to my life situation, or a cause of it. I do know that it has never interfered with anything other than my capacity for "real world" relationships, because I've never let it get to be a problem on the job, or with my parents, or during the holidays, or anything like that. The only time I've gotten so shit-faced I didn't know what the hell I was doing, was when I was also planning on mongering in order to get a girl. It is a problem for my intimate relationships only in the sense that it goes along with my mongering, and therefore prevents me from seeking sexual gratification from a more traditional romantic partner. But that's essentially the only manner in which the drinking interferes with the rest of my life, so that addiction is carefully circumscribed and weirdly under control.

Sometimes I went out to monger, then decided half-way through that I needed to drink in order to monger. Sometimes I went out to drink, then decided half-way through that I needed to monger. Either way, mongering was the goal and drinking was a vehicle to get me there. What form the mongering took, was basically the flavor of the month, whichever type of mongering I was after at that time in my life.

I've run the gamut. I started with a brief experimentation in pay-for-companionship telephone calls, back in my 20s (yes, pathetic, those 900 numbers!). I soon moved on from that, to street walkers (that fist-pumping celebration I reported in my previous post), to my main flavor -- strip-clubbing with many many extras involved -- , to some call-girl experiences as the internet grew. I "learned to monger" in Toronto, although I had a few experiences before I moved there. In the early 1990s there was a club named Fantasia in the town of Richmond Hill, which is a fairly distant bedroom-community suburb. They functioned essentially as a brothel, and I loved it.

I still love the extras-heavy strip club experience. There is no other form of mongering that I know, where you can examine and interact with the merchandise before purchasing it, where you can slake your desires at a moment's notice instead of planning ahead and calling ahead for it, and where you can take it or leave it as your whims dictate. That seems to fulfill my needs more than any other form. But I haven't ever had anything like what Fantasia was, since it closed and I moved away. I hear the Mitchell Brothers O'Farrell place in San Francisco is a close parallel, though rumored to be quite expensive. I found Treasure's in Houston to be a weak approximation, not without ultimate effectiveness. There are also lingerie studios in Tampa that filled the bill, and I spent a lot of time and money visiting those after getting an evening started at a Tampa strip club.

But with each of these venues, something having to do with alcohol was involved. It's almost as though I CHOSE to drive my inhibitions away on purpose (funny thing to do; deliberately second-guessing yourself?) in ORDER that I'd be able to go monger. When I first realized I was "allowed" to monger without drinking (I still remember the night, the exact scene in my car; it would have been when I was roughly 34), that somehow took some of the thrill out of it. It became a sterile, pre-planned activity, this business of going to take care of bodily functions without being INVOLVED in it. The alcohol would get me "zoned in" to the whole experience, and would help me to take risks I otherwise probably wouldn't have. But it also made me puke, drive dangerously, and a host of other problems, as reported.

So the two go hand in glove, alcohol addiction and sex addiction, for me. And I don't really "know" if I'm addicted to mongering, since I've never had an alternative. Kind of like asking me if I'm addicted to the Earth's atmosphere, which I freely admit I've been obsessively using in one form or another nearly all my life. But I haven't ever had an alternative -- not even been scuba diving, much less floating in outer space -- and therefore I don't know if the alternative source would actually sustain and fulfill my needs. I'd like to think I COULD find an alternative source to fulfill my sexual needs. If not, if there is no alternative source out there in the non-monger world that can fulfill my sexual needs, then it isn't that I'm addicted to sex or to mongering itself, it's just that I'm born with a sex-drive running in over-drive. The problem THEN is merely how to handle the revving engine, and not drive up against some embankment because I steered poorly. The problem is NOT, how to stop wanting that much sex, or how to stop mongering that much. Just, reducing the damage while still speeding forward.

Either way, however, the alcohol is free to go. I want it out of my life. I don't want to go cold turkey, because I shy away from extreme measures of all sorts. I know lots of fundamentalists down here in the Bible belt who go to extreme measures, and then just as extremely abandon them. (The divorce seminars run by the Baptist church are jam-packed every Saturday evening, for example!) I can drink responsibly, say wine with dinner or scotch on the porch with cousins. And New Year's Eve, I enjoy getting "drunk" along with a girlfriend. I don't consider those episodes to be the same as my "binge" drinking, when I go (alone) to a mongering situation, plow my way through an entire fifth of Jack Daniels (or Jaegermeister, my new flavor of choice!), and then brain-addled I abandon all sense and get me a girlie. The two are different types of drinking. I want the LATTER out of my life while keeping the former.

By the way, finally, sorry for using the term "cuddle BBBBB" in my previous post. I hadn't meant to be denigrating toward women with it, since (and you can confirm this by rereading) it actually referred to ME. :) But I understand why it twigged the computer re-write automaton. Anyway, it's a "cuddle female doggie" (I'm sure you've figured it out), meaning I was the boy-toy with whom the girls would get safely close, rubbing their clothed bodies up against me, but then not dangerously close, with no nudity allowed. One girl in particular actually got naked with me, but wouldn't let me do the touching, and we would have these evenings where I'd hold her in her dorm-room bed. Which you'd think would be great, right, lying in bed with a hot naked girl? Except for the fact that I wanted to date / kiss / fuck her, but on any given occasion she already had her regular boyfriend (some other dude, who would eventually break up with her, and then I'd "be there" to "help her get over" the breakup, grr.). And I wasn't allowed to be naked. What a fucked up chickie. And I was dumb enough to go along with it! Anyway, that's what a "cuddle BBBBB" is. Look up more about it by Googling "Ladder Theory," you'll find a funny but insightful site about boy-girl relations, more geared toward the adolescent and young-adult crowd. They used to have forums there but I think the board is now defunct.

Civ2000, looking forward to hearing more from you if you've got more to report. Otherwise, BG is heading for radio silence.

[Third Eye]

Book Guy, great post. You've definitely thought deeply about your situation, which is good, to a point. IMO the ideal is to be self-aware AND to be very involved with real life. Travel, volunteer, play sports, see movies. I wonder if you're aware of the seduction community--there's a lot of BS out there, but it pays to understand the Game and the female psyche--at least it provides an alternative to mongering. It's okay to combine some of these, e.g. travel and mongering, which can expand your horizons. My definition of responsible mongering is when you get what you want without letting it take over your life. And I have been there, done that.

Your post was very interesting to me because I think I have the opposite problem: I rarely drink to excess and am uninterested in chemicals except for caffeine, but when it comes to sex (mongering, seducing, viewing porn or other voyeuristic activities) I'm definitely an addict. It's all about being in control. I know when I'm in that mode (porn mode, monger mode, voyeur mode, etc.) it's a deep deep groove that I rarely can drive out of. Hell, I'm no longer in the driver's seat, something else is.

However, there's been an interesting development--since I started taking antidepressants a few months ago, my compulsive behavior has gone way down. Oh, it's still there, but I almost have to provoke it. For example, I might drop into a strip club once every fortnight, when I feel like it--as opposed to before when I was going EVEN WHEN I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT.

I take Zoloft (generic name Sertraline). Some men have reported losing sex drive taking these medications, and while I'd say my drive is slightly reduced, it's definitely still intact. No E.Rection problems, but it can be difficult to climax unless I'm highly aroused.

Back to the point, suppressing my compulsions was an unexpected but happy side effect. I wonder, has anyone else experienced a benefit like this from antidepressants?

3rdI

[Member #4186]

Thanks for your comments, Third Eye. I'm thinking about maybe considering that I might look into wondering whether or not someone should perhaps investigate if I need anti-depressant pharmacological intervention, too. Interesting how it attacked your compulsions.

I am familiar with the "seduction community", though I have long since given up on the initial pipe-dream that it presented -- of actually GETTING the girl (one? many? just ONE at a TIME would probably be enough!) rather than merely being manipulated by them, perpetually. I read up, applied myself, but didn't find that this was the solution. I am glad to have learned about some things -- the idea that socially forward people "get more" from life, for example -- but I'm also very unhappy about the cynical way that I would have to view my relations with others (women I'm seducing; and, colleagues of any gender at work; and so forth) to the point that I would become rather more Machiavellian than I now feel comfortable with. But it's still a worthwhile direction to investigate.

I've recently done a few experiments about responsible drinking. For example, I bought a 200 mL of Jack Daniels, and a 200 mL of Jaegermeister, both at the same time. I brought them both into a club, drank 2/3 of the Jaeger while sharing some, gave away the remainder to a few dudes whom I had befriended in the sharing process, and carried the Jack back to my hotel with me for another day. In a previous version of me, I would have compulsively drunk all 400 mL in one go, probably over the course of no more than an hour. As I figure it, I probably only drank 150 mL maximum that night, instead. This is a positive change. I realize that "true" Alcoholics Anonymous people might suggest, that because I'm carrying the alcohol around with me, and basically being involved in the first stages of drinking, I therefore am actually failing to avoid drinking. But, as I said earlier, I kind of distrust the approach of total abstinence, because it is an extreme measure, almost as compulsive as my drinking was. The point is, as much to avoid over-drinking, as to avoid compulsion of any kind. Therefore, half-drinking is better than no drinking.

At least, it is in my own invented screwed up fantasy psychological self-counseling universe where my own program is ideal for me and the brilliant inventors over at AA can be hanged. :)

Anyway, it was a good feeling. We'll see how long I stay on my self-diagnosed, self-designed, self-administered bandwagon.

Meanwhile, I'm planning on heading out into the hinterland of America's most Wild West city this evening or some time soon. New Orleans is teeming with unattached lower-class males being paid high dollar in cash. Guess who comes along with THAT bargain? :)

[PsyberZombie]

Meanwhile, I'm planning on heading out into the hinterland of America's most Wild West city this evening or some time soon. New Orleans is teeming with unattached lower-class males being paid high dollar in cash. Guess who comes along with THAT bargain? :)

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=470981&postcount=87

[Robux]

BBC:

Being in love is physically similar to the buzz of taking drugs and also has withdrawal symptoms, an expert on addiction has said.

Dr John Marsden says dopamine - the drug released by the brain when it is aroused - has similar effects on the body and mind as cocaine or speed.

"Attraction and lust really is like a drug. It leaves you wanting more," the National Addiction Centre head said.

[Benchseats Rock]

BBC:

Being in love is physically similar to the buzz of taking drugs and also has withdrawal symptoms, an expert on addiction has said.

Dr John Marsden says dopamine - the drug released by the brain when it is aroused - has similar effects on the body and mind as cocaine or speed.

"Attraction and lust really is like a drug. It leaves you wanting more," the National Addiction Centre head said.


National Addiction Centre Head (strike one)

Head of the National Addiction Centre (strike two)

Centre for the National Addiction to Head (home run!)




Benchseats Rock

[Hizark21]

If I have a addiction than it is cruising. As most you know I am fairly picky and sometimes go weeks or a whole month without picking a SW. The qty of good looking SW's has diminished greatly over the years. Back in the mid 80's or mid 90's one could almost be assured of finding a hot WSW in San Diego. These days finding a good looking WSW at a reasonable price is the exception rather than the rule. The action in SD and socal has become very erratic. Because of this it requires much more time to find a good WSW.

This is one reason why it's important to post news and get ph #'s. If I see a SW that interests me I always ask for ph# even if I don't have time to do her. I find myself cruising a lot more these days and finding no good action is a little depressing.

I have found that it's much better for me to seek sex for pleasure rather than for a sense of guilt or to escape unhappiness.

[Double Nickle]

Myself, I don't feel any guilt, nor has anyone tried to make me feel guilty for my addiction. I don't see guilt pervading this thread, except perhaps for a guy or two who is remorseful for cheating on his faithful spouse, in which case guilt is an appropriate emotion, assuming of course that the guy is not a sociopath.

Me, I simply see that the addiction has lowered my quality of life and thus I try to reduce or quit the hobby when I can. When successful, my finances immediately improve, I spend more time engaging in healthy life-affirming activities, get closer to friends and family, my work productivity increases, and am generally happier. As I've stated before, guilt is not part of the equation for me.I don't feel guilt either. The only thing I worry about is the temptation to overspend. Lately I've hit the AMPs as much as 3 or even 4 times a week which I can't afford to do on an ongoing basis. At up to $300 a visit this could run over $1000 a week, $52,000 a year. Over a 20 year mongering career one could literally spend over a million dollars. Invest that wisely and one could be a multimillionaire instead of an experienced monger. This "hobby" could ruin one financially just as a gambling habit could.

Just as I will gamble happily at moderate levels, I need to learn to limit my mongering to whatI can afford. Paying cash eliminates the temptation to use credit cards to the hilt on K-girls. On occasion I have used my credit card for other things to free up AMP money. I've stopped that lately. I go for the $140 or $160 FS rather than the $300 FS to save money. I even go HJ only sometimes which is a money saver.

I've gotten a lot of overtime money lately. I might spend all my OT money on AMP girls as it is extra money I don't need. But is it wise to do that? What do others do? Invest 50% or 5% of this OT windfall?

There are other ways to save that I am reluctant to utilize unless the point comes where I have to, such as retirement or when overtime dries up. I could save by patronizing a $20 SW rather than a CC Rider. I could limit my mongering to once a week or once a month or even to a vacation of once a year. What do others suggest?

The solution I really like is to win the lottery for a hundred million dollars which means I could indulge to an almost unlimited degree. (Really high rollers can spend an amount of money you or I could not believe.) Alternatively I could hustle extra money by a part time job or by cutting the fat in my non monger budget. How do others cope?

Double Nickle

[Ho Watcher]

...when it comes to sex (mongering, seducing, viewing porn or other voyeuristic activities) I'm definitely an addict. It's all about being in control. I know when I'm in that mode (porn mode, monger mode, voyeur mode, etc.) it's a deep deep groove that I rarely can drive out of. Hell, I'm no longer in the driver's seat, something else is.

However, there's been an interesting development--since I started taking antidepressants a few months ago, my compulsive behavior has gone way down. Oh, it's still there, but I almost have to provoke it. For example, I might drop into a strip club once every fortnight, when I feel like it--as opposed to before when I was going EVEN WHEN I DIDN'T FEEL LIKE IT.

I take Zoloft (generic name Sertraline). Some men have reported losing sex drive taking these medications, and while I'd say my drive is slightly reduced, it's definitely still intact. No E.Rection problems, but it can be difficult to climax unless I'm highly aroused.

Back to the point, suppressing my compulsions was an unexpected but happy side effect. I wonder, has anyone else experienced a benefit like this from antidepressants?

3rdII'm not a mental health professional, but I am aware of the reduction in obsessive behaviors that can occur with the use of anti-depressants. The Prozac class of drugs (Prozac, Zoloft, Paxil, Celexa, Lexapro and others) are serotonin reuptake inhibitors, serotonin being one of those neurotransmitters that that can make you feel good and change behavior if present in the right amount. Wellbutrin (not in the Prozac class) is another anti-depressant that works on two different neurotransmitters (dopamine and norepinephrine) that also can make you feel good if present in the right amount. However I'm not sure if Wellbutrin is effective for OCD.

I don't know if sexual addiction is a type of OCD, but I suspect it is, or is related, and recommend a google search on "Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder" to read up on OCD and related disorders. Then for others who want to see if Third Eye's experience can be repeated, it might be worth a trip to your doctor, a psychiatrist, or the public health clinic to get a prescription. A lot of these drugs are now available as generics so they can cost $4 or less a month at pharmacies like Walmart and those that are matching its prices.

Celexa and Lexapro are said to have the fewest side effects of the Prozac class of drugs and are among the newest drugs of this type. Wellbutrin is also said to have few side effects. Both Wellbutrin and Celexa are now available as inexpensive generics.

If there is a qualified mental health professional reading this report, please add to this report and correct anything I've said that is wrong.

[Benchseats Rock]

The classic pill for OCD is Luvox, though Wellbutrin also hits many of the same receptors without the same side effects. This is not to say that Wellbutrin is without it's own side effects, and it is most often prescribed in tandem with other anti depressants - such as Zoloft or Paxil - but again, side effects are plenty. The newest addition to the bunch is Cymbalta - which hits epis and neurepis - and more of each than ever before, and the neat part of it is that there is no weight gain AT ALL as part and parcel of the standard list of complaints. The trick with combining anti depresants with Wellbutrin is that Wellbutrin does have a stimulus effect in most cases, but dosage is tricky as more than 300mg puts the patient at a significantly higher risk for seizures, so it is not uncommon to see low doses of Viagra or other pills in the class prescribed as well.

OCD can manifest sexually for certain, though more often it is my experience that sexual compulsion is far more common in patients presenting with Major Depression and ADD/ADHD - the treatment of which can produce OCD behaviours and tendencies not present before medication.

I cannot stress enough that pills in and of themselves do not constitute a complete therapeutic regimen, and of course, before taking any pill or changing a therapy regimen it is imperative to consult with your Internist and a Psychiatrist to ensure the appropriate choices are made.


Benchseats Rock

[Klever]

I've tried various SSRI antidepressants and they all work to curb compulsions, but they also tend to make it difficult to cum.


The classic pill for OCD is Luvox, though Wellbutrin also hits many of the same receptors without the same side effects. This is not to say that Wellbutrin is without it's own side effects, and it is most often prescribed in tandem with other anti depressants - such as Zoloft or Paxil - but again, side effects are plenty. The newest addition to the bunch is Cymbalta - which hits epis and neurepis - and more of each than ever before, and the neat part of it is that there is no weight gain AT ALL as part and parcel of the standard list of complaints. The trick with combining anti depresants with Wellbutrin is that Wellbutrin does have a stimulus effect in most cases, but dosage is tricky as more than 300mg puts the patient at a significantly higher risk for seizures, so it is not uncommon to see low doses of Viagra or other pills in the class prescribed as well.

OCD can manifest sexually for certain, though more often it is my experience that sexual compulsion is far more common in patients presenting with Major Depression and ADD/ADHD - the treatment of which can produce OCD behaviours and tendencies not present before medication.

I cannot stress enough that pills in and of themselves do not constitute a complete therapeutic regimen, and of course, before taking any pill or changing a therapy regimen it is imperative to consult with your Internist and a Psychiatrist to ensure the appropriate choices are made.

Benchseats Rock

[Asain_Ucker]

Lately all I been banging is kgirls. They seem to be the only turn on for me. Heck even the unattractive ones get me hard. I'm late 40's and have had my share of white,black,& latina pussy. My question is, "Is there any truth to the term Asian Fever or Yellow Fever?"

[Member #4186]

Asian: I've been just the opposite, recently. I have un-Yellow Fever. :)

And another funny thing happened to me, just last night, in fact, that might have bearing on this general discussion. I scheduled myself loose from the various family and friends who are making demands on my time these holidays (told Mister A I was with Miss B, and vice versa!) and planned on mongering. I went after the clubs in the French Quarter, and Visions out on Downman Road (New Orleans), but I just couldn't get the ol' horn up. I haven't banged a chick in about three weeks but man I just ain't interested.

What'sup with that? I am starting to suspect, that regular socializing of the "normal" kind, in some way invades my mind and turns me into an upstanding and John-Birch type of citizen. Help! Now I'm wondering whether all my past mongering obsessions were just loneliness acting itself out in spurts and starts. What happens when I have to go back to the daily grind? I gotta fuck at AMPs more?

This isn't making sense. There I was, free pass in hand, standing outside the Hustler on Bourbon Street, peering through the doorway at plenty of scantily clad porn-starlet-types, and I didn't want to go inside. It just seemed ... seedy ... and, more important, it seemed DULL. I was BORED by sex.

Eeek. That CAN'T be a good development.

[Orlando J]

Does anyone know if there's a Sex Addiction centers in Orlando, Florida?

Please PM me

[AmIaCriminal2]

I used to be into porn, being a truck driver 24 hrs a day with my wife for ten years. We didn't get along very well, me focusing on bills and trying to get out of trucking but maintaining the same income, my wife couldn't comprhend maintaining a budget, I had very little sex life, and no friends. Then began going to stripclubs, thinking my marriage was over anyway; eventually I confided in my wife that I was going to stripclubs, and she could tell that I was infatuated with one dancer in particular. We argued fiercly over it. But I being adament that I can not make friends like most people (actually shunned by most people no matter how hard I try to fit in) and that this is all I have for finding normal conversation with people, she eventually accepted it; and I found that I really only needed friends; I am not even interested in most woman in the clubs even when fully nude; only a few of them and even then, more as friends than sexually. So the point I am trying to make is that there may be soemthing you are missing emotionally; I didn't even realize the things and issues I was hurting from in my life that swell up in my mind when I walk into a certain club near home, kind of like when I walked into a distant relatives home a few years ago for the first time in 20 years and was flooded with memories. For me a stripclub that was ran by people that remind me of where I was raised really healed me in ways I didn't know I was hurting the pain was buried so deep. So you may have deep rejection issues. Then I wound up obsessed with one dancer for about a year. Then quit going to that club for one month. Met a girl that looked similiar and it really helped me to "get over her".

[Member #4186]

A nice story, Mr. "Am I a criminal 2". (Funny nickname ...) I think a lot of us are lonely, looking for acceptance or for something that we have somehow lost but that we don't even know we lack.

[PsyberZombie]

Just like in 2005 ('http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=407066&postcount=236') , I kept a diary on my mongering activities this year

Because I missed five straight weeks because of some surgery this summer , my 'year'
was only 47 weeks long

In that time , I spent $$ 6400 on 61 'Dates' with 22 different women — an average of
one date every 5.4 days

Most of my activities are now with ATFs or in Strip Clubs = why risk a Solicitation arrest
when in·door prostitution is totally legal here in Rhode Island ?? My last SW date was in mid·August

I saw seven of the women at least twice , and spent by far the most time and money
on my ATF·ATF girl Jo·Elle , who I saw 31 times

My New Year's Resolution is to take a little break from the hobby and this web site

Wonder how long I'll be able to hold out ?? Addictions *are* hard to break , I realize

Any·wayz = Happy New Years , Peeps !!!

[Bad Bad Boy]

Why beat yourself up because you like porn, sex, mongering, strip clubs, or AMPs? Why take that guilt trip?

According to some articles I read, the average male thinks about sex every 5 minutes or so. Now that sounds like an addiction. But wait. Is there is a difference between thinking about sex and acting on your thoughts?

Who cares if there is a difference as long as no one is getting hurt. What normal male doesn't like looking at beautiful naked women acting out our fantasies right before our eyes? While most of us would rather have sex than watching it, who cares?

I personally believe that most people have some form of addictive behavior whether it's shopping, sex, alcohol, drugs, hobbies, workaholic, playing computer games or the like. Why beat yourself up over it?

There is a multitude of reasons why some men prefer dating SWs rather than find some nice regular girl for a relationship. My reasons are simple. I am tired of the dating game (head games, financial exploitation, hassles, and loss of independence and freedom).

Financially speaking, it's probably a toss up between mongering and dating regular girls. Either way, you are going to pay for sex. At least with mongering, you generally know what's going to happen, when and for how much.

It all depends on one's priorities and where you are in your stage of life.

Guess the point I am trying to make is don't beat yourself up over this so-called sex addiction thing if you are not hurting anyone and you enjoy this lifestyle.

Wanting to have, liking, and watching sex is a normal behavior.

Like anything in life, try to keep it under control and not do it to excess (going into debt, negatively affecting the rest of your life, etc.).

BBB

[Pcpc1688]

Lets face it, if we patronize this board we are sick mother fuckers. LOL I really liked the 06' accounting of Zombies, that was right on. I had thought about my lifetime mongering expenses and quite frankly I wanted to puke.

I coulda bought a house in Vegas and a nice one too. That combined with other vices, maybe 2 houses. hehe

oh well, cant take it with you when you go so enjoy it while we are all breathing is what I say.

PC out

[Civ2000]

Why beat yourself up because you like porn, sex, mongering, strip clubs, or AMPs? Why take that guilt trip?

According to some articles I read, the average male thinks about sex every 5 minutes or so. Now that sounds like an addiction. But wait. Is there is a difference between thinking about sex and acting on your thoughts?

Who cares if there is a difference as long as no one is getting hurt. What normal male doesn't like looking at beautiful naked women acting out our fantasies right before our eyes? While most of us would rather have sex than watching it, who cares?

I personally believe that most people have some form of addictive behavior whether it's shopping, sex, alcohol, drugs, hobbies, workaholic, playing computer games or the like. Why beat yourself up over it?

There is a multitude of reasons why some men prefer dating SWs rather than find some nice regular girl for a relationship. My reasons are simple. I am tired of the dating game (head games, financial exploitation, hassles, and loss of independence and freedom).

Financially speaking, it's probably a toss up between mongering and dating regular girls. Either way, you are going to pay for sex. At least with mongering, you generally know what's going to happen, when and for how much.

It all depends on one's priorities and where you are in your stage of life.

Guess the point I am trying to make is don't beat yourself up over this so-called sex addiction thing if you are not hurting anyone and you enjoy this lifestyle.

Wanting to have, liking, and watching sex is a normal behavior.

Like anything in life, try to keep it under control and not do it to excess (going into debt, negatively affecting the rest of your life, etc.).

BBB

BBB, The thing is, you're not describing addiction. When you say to "try and keep it under control" you're missing the point that addiction is a "loss of control."

"Wanting to have, liking, and watching sex is a normal behavior" -- sure it is. But a loose definition of addiction is continuing a behavior despite negative consequences. Liking sex is one thing, continuing to have sex despite arrest, heavy debt, disease, getting robbed, etc is another. Addiction does negatively affect the rest of your life; a normal sexual desire does not.

So yes, liking porn, strip clubs, mongering, etc., is great until you lose the ability to control it and then it is an extremely destructive force that can ruin your life and those who are close to you. The fact is, you are hurting someone - yourself and the people who care about you.

So, it's like I've described before. You go to a group of forty men (most of whom think of sex every few minutes) and ask them if they'd like to bang that hot blonde at the bar. Most will say yes. Then say there is a 50% chance she has an STD. You've now lost half the men, but the rest might bang her anyway with protection. Now you tell them there's a chance they could get arrested and their wife might find out. Ten more men drop out. Now mention they could get robbed by a pimp. Three more drop out. Then say, it could become addictive and you could end up heavily in debt. Five more drop out. Two guys are left, me and Psyberzombie. You've found the two sex addicts in the group.

[Call Me Booger]

In that time , I spent $$ 6400 on 61 'Dates' with 22 different women —on my ATF·ATF girl Jo·Elle , who I saw 31 times

My New Year's Resolution is to take a little break from the hobby and this web site

Wonder how long I'll be able to hold out ?? Addictions *are* hard to break , I realize[/b]


Just did the math myself and for 2006, I spent $5240 on a little over 30 mongering sessions.

By the way, good luck on the resolution (although I saw that you've been back already)

[Sc1919]

Lately all I been banging is kgirls. They seem to be the only turn on for me. Heck even the unattractive ones get me hard. I'm late 40's and have had my share of white,black,& latina pussy. My question is, "Is there any truth to the term Asian Fever or Yellow Fever?"How juvenile can you be? There's about as much truth to that as "once you go black, you never go back."

[Asain_Ucker]

WK,

It's not that I dont like fucking white, latina, and black girls anymore. Heck I'd fuck them all, but what really is, is that if I had a choice. If they lined them up, I'd most probably pick the Korean girl.

All my life I was never attracted to any asian girl no matter how cute she was, until I tried one at a AMP years ago. If I'd go to the strip club and if it was the asian girl turn to dance, I'd go to bathroom or get a drink. I just didn't waste my time. Now it's almost the opposite. Maybe it's just me. A buddy mentioned to me about this asian fever stuff thats why I brought it up on the forum.


How juvenile can you be? There's about as much truth to that as "once you go black, you never go back."

[Black Treechas]

"Why beat yourself up because you like porn, sex, mongering, strip clubs, or AMPs? Why take that guilt trip?"


No one ever accomplished anything by "beating oneself up." But one should be concerned if they have an addiction, and take action if it has negative affects on their health or other parts of their life.

How do you know if your addicted?? A good rule of thumb is that if you asking yourself that question, you probably are.

I don;t consider the study of human behavior a science. Addictions are more defined by society's mores and values than anything else.

But the most "scientific" method we use to determine addiction, there are 10 or 15 questions you need to answer, and if 5 or 6 have affirmitive answers, your considered addicted. Talk to a professional if you want the exact specifics.

You need to be concerned with an addiction because it may affect other more important parts of your life. For example, getting food and shelter are two basic needs that rate higher than the sex drive (having sex is third). If you spend too much on mongering and don't have enough to pay your mortgage or grocery bill, that's a problem. If you get your car impounded and can't get to work, lose your job, and can't earn money to pay your mortgage or for groceries, thats a problem. If your wife walks out on you and gets a big chunk of your paycheck and you can't pay your mortgage or grocery bills, that's a problem.

A friend of mine was fired from THREE jobs because of his addictive behavior when he went panning for gold on his placer mine claim. He would go on the week-ends, and would not return Monday for work. He just could not bring himself to leave, thinking the big nugget would be in the next spot he looked.

We also have other needs that are not considered as high as the sex drive..need for love, comfort, companionship, feeling good about ourselves, self-esteem, etc. The consequences of too much mongering can affect all of these...like getting arrested with name in the newspaper, no money for other things, divorce, accumulating debt, etc.

Some addicts are lucky or blessed and never have to deal with unpleasant consequences of their addiction...like the alcoholic CEO that never gets caught DUI nor ever has an accident. But addicts that do end up suffering from unpleasant consequences usually bsay "This is not how I wanted my life to be."
If your acutely aware of the consequences of addictive behavior and say "so what, this is how I chose to live my life", then so be it...but that's sort of a sociopath attitude...it means you don't play well with others.

We need pleasure, too. If all your time and resources are spent on an addictive pleasure, you'll be losing out of other pleasures...the trip to hawaii in January, the new car, new set of golf clubs, or whatever.

My addiction to coffee is a little bit of an inconvenience, but at least its affordable, legal, and acceptable.

[Member #4186]

Agreed on "this is why." The problem isn't the desire (aka "addiction" for some people), it's the RESULTS, or effects, or side-effects, or other problems it causes, or ... call it whatever. So, why? Because of the stories about people who "have to" drive the stroll over and over, despite losing their jobs or getting arrested; the stories about men who take a blow to their self-esteem every time they bone a stranger, and despite the fact that mister happy down below the belt gets his nut to bust so the little brain is satisfied, the BIG brain still isn't satisfied with the loneliness, the lack of self-affirmation, the sense of distance from humanity. Call it whatever, mongering is only a poor solution to a major problem for ALL of us here on this thread.

I have some kind of pipe dream in which, I'm a DESIRED man. I have a fair degree of power over the women whom I am interested in, precisely because I am as interesting to them as they are to me. There are ways to accomplish this pipe dream. One is to desire the women less; another is to BE desired by them more. I have "worked on" who I am, to the extent that I am starting to understand female desire more than I ever have before. It's not a problem that they want things from us that we don't necessarily want from them -- bank account, appearance of stability, capacity to bifurcate between total-biker-outlaw-James-Dean and family-man-Ward-Cleaver (wait, come to think of it, I might want Cyd-Charisse-versus-June-Cleaver, hmmm ...). What is a problem, is NOT being able to appear to them as something they want.

And then I start to wonder, is it really worth a whole lifetime, to apply myself to this massive problem, called "women"? If only they were just ... GROWN UP ... about sexuality, maybe we wouldn't HAVE TO monger, right? But nooo, they control us because we're born with a sexual need that they deliberately, cruelly manipulate.

So, why do I dislike mongering? Why do I feel like the "addiction" matters? Because it destroys my sense of self and makes me feel manipulated, makes me feel like the victim of cruel jokes and punishments.

And yet, in the long run, I'm not really a true misogynist. I don't "hate" human females (any more than I hate, for example, cats, even though I'm a dog person). I just recognize them for rather limited creatures, in this particular context. They have all sorts of other great things to offer.

Humph. Sometimes I consider taking salt-peter (the drug reduces your sex drive, I've heard; they put it in the food at boys' British public schools to prevent them from masturbating back in the Victorian era). Viagra would be the LAST pill I'd ever want to pass my mouth -- why INCREASE the disjunction between how much you want it and can have it, on the one hand; and how much you actually get, on the other?

Ah, the New Year dawns. Plus ca change, plus ca meme chose ...

[Member #4186]

I guess I just feel like I "need" to look it up and remind myself, but my accounts have just told me I'm spending more than $1000 a month on mongering. That includes such things as plane flights to Houston, associated hotel bills, etc.

Amazing where all that dough is going. Now ask my "why beat up yourself?"!

:(

[AmIaCriminal2]

What bothers me is that it is so overpriced due to our Civil Rights being violated as we are being outlawed for having basic bodily functions. I can not find one Civil Rights Group fighting to legalize prostituion specifically (Libertarian Party goes after too many wide agendas, I mean one focased solely on Prostitution, or hell if one would even specifaclly fight for Stripclub rights it would be a start). You can even neuter a dog and it still gets horny, so sexual body functions are just as uncontrollable as any other bodily function. When you gotta go you gotta go. What ever happened to Seperation of Church and State?

And that Asian thing? Yah. I am the same way when an Asian is on stage. I 'll generally excuse myself. But mostly because I only find 2 or three girls that I enjoy spending time with. Mostly the conversation. But once in a while I get lucky.

[AmIaCriminal2]

Here is a link to a coalition for promoting legalization of prostitution in the USA http://www.sexwork.com/coalition/index.html ;much of the "problems" men have with "sexual addictions" seem to come from not being able to obtain sex,a needed part of human or animal existance.If it is legalized and attainable it would cut down on many mureders,rapes,assaults,substance abuses,etc,etc just let your mind give you the results that occur from loneliness and social exclusion and the desperation that sets in from being ostricised.Hopefully everyone will at least try to promote this organization to local stripclubs,email it to local escorts/professional sex workers and let's get organized and get out from under this oppression!

[Member #4186]

Thanks for the link. I'm not really impressed with that dude's HTML skillz (har!) but he does have a "proper mind-set" for trying to get society to change.

I dunno. We've been at this for about two or four thousand years, the whole "sex is bad but I want it to be good" thing. My take on it, is to try to stop worrying about my sexual desire being a bad thing; but to also try to stop addictive or self-destructive behaviors that have some kind of OTHER negative effects. Spending $14 or $15 K a year on pussy (including lap dances, airplane flights to cities where I can get lap dances, drinks, rental cars, club entries, massage parlors, out-call girls, and so on) is a "negative" effect on me. I can't spare that kind of dough and SHOULD "choose" not to, but somehow the other head takes over and I make an inappropriate choice instead.

If I were wealthy enough, would I consider this type of expenditure non-addicted, and therefore non-self-destructive? Hypotheticals just get ya messed in da head.

[Benchseats Rock]

I guess I just feel like I "need" to look it up and remind myself, but my accounts have just told me I'm spending more than $1000 a month on mongering. That includes such things as plane flights to Houston, associated hotel bills, etc.

Amazing where all that dough is going. Now ask my "why beat up yourself?"!

:(


If you're spending $1K a month, you shouldn't be beating yourself, someone else should be beating it for you. :)

[Civ2000]

much of the "problems" men have with "sexual addictions" seem to come from not being able to obtain sex,a needed part of human or animal existance.If it is legalized and attainable it would cut down on many mureders,rapes,assaults,substance abuses,etc,etc just let your mind give you the results that occur from loneliness and social exclusion and the desperation that sets in from being ostricised.!

I would have to strongly disagree with this statement. For example, alcohol is legal, yet it has ruined millions of lives. If sex were legal, it would probably be even more of a problem for a lot of guys. The problems with obsessing about sex continuously, spending beyond your means, etc, etc, would actually increase.

In places where it is legal, they still have murders, rapes, assaults, and substance abusers. Just look at Vancouver BC. It's practically legal up there, they have brothels, barely enforce street prostitution laws, and sex is really easy to obtain. Yet, you have the highest rate of HIV, substance abuse, syphilis, and one of the worst mass murders of prostitutes anywhere. Rape is usually a crime of violence and power rather than a need for sex.

[Big Red50]

Thanks for the link. I'm not really impressed with that dude's HTML skillz (har!) but he does have a "proper mind-set" for trying to get society to change.

I dunno. We've been at this for about two or four thousand years, the whole "sex is bad but I want it to be good" thing. My take on it, is to try to stop worrying about my sexual desire being a bad thing; but to also try to stop addictive or self-destructive behaviors that have some kind of OTHER negative effects. Spending $14 or $15 K a year on pussy (including lap dances, airplane flights to cities where I can get lap dances, drinks, rental cars, club entries, massage parlors, out-call girls, and so on) is a "negative" effect on me. I can't spare that kind of dough and SHOULD "choose" not to, but somehow the other head takes over and I make an inappropriate choice instead.

If I were wealthy enough, would I consider this type of expenditure non-addicted, and therefore non-self-destructive? Hypotheticals just get ya messed in da head.For a grand a month I could get 50 BBBJ or 40BBJCIM or a piece of ass every day for the month, you are one horny dude.

Once I spent $$$$.1 over a 24hr period crowning a trifecta. It went like this 2 escorts, 1 SW, 1-BBBJCIM, 1-BBBJ69CIM, 1-Mish nut, 1-Doggie nut, 4 nuts overall and well worth the price. The rest of the month prior to the trifecta was $$.4 for 2-BBBJCIM, 2-Doggie nut, 1-Mish nut, 5 nuts overall. For a grand monthley total of 9 nuts for $$$$$$.5=.72/nut a little high but saw 3 escorts, and 3SW that month, I must have been ruting like and old HeRam. But this is once a year thing.

Am I a sex addict, just like do escorts and SW really O?

Who gives a shit

Big Red from Balmer

[LoveLOS]

Decided to start reading since some of my friends are lurking here... So, from what I read, $1K a month is a good starting place for defining sexual addiction.

Oh.... Shit!

How does that go at the meetings?

"Hi! My name is LoveLOS and I am a sex addict."

LoveLOS

BTW - Redman, One week in Mexico and we will have two months worth of sexual addiction credit points (assuming it works like frequent flier miles), maybe we will work it out of our systems if we party hard enough! :D

[AmIaCriminal2]

I would have to strongly disagree with this statement. For example, alcohol is legal, yet it has ruined millions of lives. If sex were legal, it would probably be even more of a problem for a lot of guys. The problems with obsessing about sex continuously, spending beyond your means, etc, etc, would actually increase.

In places where it is legal, they still have murders, rapes, assaults, and substance abusers. Just look at Vancouver BC. It's practically legal up there, they have brothels, barely enforce street prostitution laws, and sex is really easy to obtain. Yet, you have the highest rate of HIV, substance abuse, syphilis, and one of the worst mass murders of prostitutes anywhere. Rape is usually a crime of violence and power rather than a need for sex.Along with legalization or rather decriminalization of Prositution there is a need for Education, especially to brainwashed Religious Fanatics that kill in the name of "GOD". Making people to beleive that they are sick or evil for needing sex instead of teaching them that it is a neccessary bodily function as well as emotionally needed, we are still instilling fear and mind control from the Roman Empire into childrens and adults minds today. If you are a male and not one of the lucky minority that have women throwing themselves at you sexually on a daily basis, then you are quite aware of your physical drive and need for sex, it is on every man's mind constantly all day long, part of human anatomy, you can't just scare or shame it away just like any other bodily function, it is there and must be dealt with. Much substance abuse is directly connected to trying to "get laid" because it is unattainable to many; so much of the alcohol ruining millions of lives as you put it is directly linked to people searching for sex that would have just went to a prostitute and then went upon earning a living, rather then spending hours going from bar to bar trying to get laid, having no luck, driving intoxicated to the next bar, and then driving intoxicated or causing liver failure etc. I began drinking after 11 years of sobriety in direct connection with going to stripclubs after Escorts were ran out of our local Newspapers and ads by Police Stings replaced them.

The psycho babble about rape being a crime of violence and power, you forgot to call men controlling or bring up road rage, these are more terms by brainwashers to control people, which most people cannot handle reality, but for those of us that can, it shouldn't be illegal for us to live our lives. You also stated "it's practically legal up there" which means it is still oppressed by undue influences mainly making nut cases think they are working for "GOD" attacking people that don't beleive what they beleive.

[Civ2000]

Making people to beleive that they are sick or evil for needing sex instead of teaching them that it is a neccessary bodily function as well as emotionally needed, we are still instilling fear and mind control from the Roman Empire into childrens and adults minds today.

We are not trying to make people believe they are sick or evil for needing sex; but rather when the pursuit of sex is causing major life problems: Disease, Money Problems, Employment Problems, Loss of interest in family and other Important Things, etc., it is no longer just a necessary bodily function but a life damaging addiction.


Much substance abuse is directly connected to trying to "get laid" because it is unattainable to many; so much of the alcohol ruining millions of lives as you put it is directly linked to people searching for sex that would have just went to a prostitute and then went upon earning a living, rather then spending hours going from bar to bar trying to get laid, having no luck, driving intoxicated to the next bar, and then driving intoxicated or causing liver failure etc.

I disagree that alcoholism is directly connected to trying to get laid. The vast majority of men don't have women throwing themselves at them, yet they aren't alcoholics or drugs addicts. That sounds like a convenient excuse. As it is now, the mere fact prostitution is illegal makes it more accessible for most of us. SW's are everywhere, you can go on CL and find providers, you can go to the CL review site and see well-reviewed providers, you can go on EROs and find someone. Finding a prostitute is easier than buying pot. If it is legalized, I for one, certainly won't be able to afford it. And if I can't get laid, I have a perfectly good hand. I think people turn to drugs and alcohol not so much because prostitution is illegal, but rather due to their inability to form real relationships and friendships with women; something that would not be helped by legalization. An hour encounter with a hooker does little to combat lonliness which is the hallmark of most addictions.




The psycho babble about rape being a crime of violence and power, .

In many rapes, a fairly significant proportion, the object of penetration is an object rather than the penis, and the male rarely orgasms. This doesn't sound like a guy just trying to get his nut off to me.


which means it is still oppressed by undue influences mainly making nut cases think they are working for "GOD" attacking people that don't beleive what they beleive.

Actually not true. It is usually the liberal faction of our population that is most against legalizing sex. In extremely liberal Seattle, with our democrat mayor and city council, they have made every attempt to criminalize strip clubs and prostitution. There are frequent busts on CL. They see strip clubs and prostitution as deameaning to women they see as victims. Whereas in very conservative states like Texas or Tennessee, you can get great table dances with a nude dancer while drinking hard liquor. Try that in a blue state.

So, once again, it is not about a need for sex or a high state of libido. Those things are great. But when my wife who I absolutely loved and gave me great sex whenever I wanted it divorced me because I had to pick up SW's, I knew that I was out of control. When I filed for bankruptcy last year, despite making a hundred thousand dollars, I knew I had a problem. Every guy I know has an overactive sex drive, but not all can say it has severely fucked up their lives. I can.

[AmIaCriminal2]

Well, you certainly seem to have a blanket excuse for everything.

Too bad excuses don't change reality.

[Sarang Haeyo]

except after C (for criminal). The correct spelling is: believe.

[Sarang Haeyo]

How juvenile can you be? There's about as much truth to that as "once you go black, you never go back."
My new motto is: Once you go yellow, you're a lucky fellow.

[Orlando J]

Hi Bad Bad Boy,

I like your post actually my intentions to find sex addiction group or center is both to have more fun. Does this make me bad? I know. I just can't get enough of it.
Another contradictory reason is; the habit is taking time, energy and money---J


Why beat yourself up because you like porn, sex, mongering, strip clubs, or AMPs? Why take that guilt trip?

According to some articles I read, the average male thinks about sex every 5 minutes or so. Now that sounds like an addiction. But wait. Is there is a difference between thinking about sex and acting on your thoughts?

Who cares if there is a difference as long as no one is getting hurt. What normal male doesn't like looking at beautiful naked women acting out our fantasies right before our eyes? While most of us would rather have sex than watching it, who cares?

I personally believe that most people have some form of addictive behavior whether it's shopping, sex, alcohol, drugs, hobbies, workaholic, playing computer games or the like. Why beat yourself up over it?

There is a multitude of reasons why some men prefer dating SWs rather than find some nice regular girl for a relationship. My reasons are simple. I am tired of the dating game (head games, financial exploitation, hassles, and loss of independence and freedom).

Financially speaking, it's probably a toss up between mongering and dating regular girls. Either way, you are going to pay for sex. At least with mongering, you generally know what's going to happen, when and for how much.

It all depends on one's priorities and where you are in your stage of life.

Guess the point I am trying to make is don't beat yourself up over this so-called sex addiction thing if you are not hurting anyone and you enjoy this lifestyle.

Wanting to have, liking, and watching sex is a normal behavior.

Like anything in life, try to keep it under control and not do it to excess (going into debt, negatively affecting the rest of your life, etc.).

BBB

[Orlando J]

Here is how I control myself? Before acting I think for few sec. on all the things you have mentioned though I am not married or have a g/f ... and if I can't sleep I'll masterbate.

Silly is not it? a sex addict (me) is giving advice!


We are not trying to make people believe they are sick or evil for needing sex; but rather when the pursuit of sex is causing major life problems: Disease, Money Problems, Employment Problems, Loss of interest in family and other Important Things, etc., it is no longer just a necessary bodily function but a life damaging addiction.

I disagree that alcoholism is directly connected to trying to get laid. The vast majority of men don't have women throwing themselves at them, yet they aren't alcoholics or drugs addicts. That sounds like a convenient excuse. As it is now, the mere fact prostitution is illegal makes it more accessible for most of us. SW's are everywhere, you can go on CL and find providers, you can go to the CL review site and see well-reviewed providers, you can go on EROs and find someone. Finding a prostitute is easier than buying pot. If it is legalized, I for one, certainly won't be able to afford it. And if I can't get laid, I have a perfectly good hand. I think people turn to drugs and alcohol not so much because prostitution is illegal, but rather due to their inability to form real relationships and friendships with women; something that would not be helped by legalization. An hour encounter with a hooker does little to combat lonliness which is the hallmark of most addictions.

In many rapes, a fairly significant proportion, the object of penetration is an object rather than the penis, and the male rarely orgasms. This doesn't sound like a guy just trying to get his nut off to me.

Actually not true. It is usually the liberal faction of our population that is most against legalizing sex. In extremely liberal Seattle, with our democrat mayor and city council, they have made every attempt to criminalize strip clubs and prostitution. There are frequent busts on CL. They see strip clubs and prostitution as deameaning to women they see as victims. Whereas in very conservative states like Texas or Tennessee, you can get great table dances with a nude dancer while drinking hard liquor. Try that in a blue state.

So, once again, it is not about a need for sex or a high state of libido. Those things are great. But when my wife who I absolutely loved and gave me great sex whenever I wanted it divorced me because I had to pick up SW's, I knew that I was out of control. When I filed for bankruptcy last year, despite making a hundred thousand dollars, I knew I had a problem. Every guy I know has an overactive sex drive, but not all can say it has severely fucked up their lives. I can.

[Member #4186]

Some people on here are misunderstanding the notion of ADDICTION as opposed to CHOICE. The whole point of a discussion or a worry over being addicted (to anything!) is that you CAN'T choose a wiser path in your life. If you're addicted to the thing, then IT chooses for you. That's the point. It isn't about will-power, at least not solely.

And yes, society might do something to allow greater access to sexuality. I think in former times, young women put out a lot more. This whole "committed" thing, about how they want relationships in order to have sex while we don't? I don't believe that story. I think it only has as much evidence to back it up, as any other evo-psycho-bio theory that's currently in the vogue. They come and go, these theories, most of them generally recapitulating whatever is considered morally "normal" by the majority society at the time. Heck, the same type of scientists "proved" that blacks were dumber than whites in the Victorian era -- just another set of assumptions reaffirmed, then some "scientific" evidence found to support it.

What is missing from my life -- intimacy, trust, decent friendships to fill the evenings -- would probably have been present in a medieval village where there wasn't a local SW stroll or an old Dodge Dart to cruise around in. So if I were born back then, would I need to monger, and develop this addiction? Maybe so. Maybe I'd be so danged horny they got all medieval on my ass and chopped my dick off for tryin' to bugger all the girls and boys in the village just because a decent SW wasn't around to get me off regularly. Or maybe not. Maybe I'd be busy, or malnourished, or so happy that my extended family of cousins and friends was nearby in clan-like proximity, that the addiction never surfaced. Like I said, hypotheticals ...

And about the spending a grand a month-- I think I made it clear, that this amount included strip-clubbing, and airplane costs, and so forth; further, it wasn't necessarily every month that I mongered at all, but rather it AVERAGES to that amount per month over the past year. I haven't been living in towns where cheap-and-easy streetwalkers are available at less than $ a pop, so my expenses are going to have to be higher than those for someone in Houston or LA.

And anyway a SW wouldn't generally be my monger-ization of choice even if they had been available. As I said elsewhere, a price right around $.5 or $$ makes me feel "fulfilled" -- a higher cost makes me feel that she has cheated me; a lower cost makes me feel cheap. Just the way my own head is wired, no judgment about other people's different wiring. I went through a few episodes of crack-ho-type mongering along Nebraska Ave. in Tampa, and I have to admit it wasn't fulfilling, and felt rather dangerous, to boot.

[AmIaCriminal2]

Because it's no big deal unless you aren't gettin any.

[Civ2000]

Well, you certainly seem to have a blanket excuse for everything.

Too bad excuses don't change reality.

I and others here don't seem to be making excuses for anything, but rather discussing how picking up prostitutes has affected our quality of life. Regardless of your reality, my reality is that I've tried many times to quit picking up prostitutes unsucessfully and that my life has been negatively impacted as a result.

Now if you on the other hand can pick up mulititudes of hookers and be healthy, wealthy, happy, and can stop whenever you want, that's great. I'm happy for you.

[Orlando J]

My point of view is you own your body as long as you are a responsible mature adult you want to smoke fine, you want to drink fine, you love hoes fine as long as you do not hurt others. Your freedom ends where your neighbor's begins. I think prostitution even drugs should be legal but not in public. You want to use them fine but do not have sex in public that's offending. You would not want your children watching two humping each other.

Honest, full service, safe sex (sexwork) should be the accepted norm. Countries that doesn't have the legal repressive issues as in the U.S. ads are usually honest, prices quoted are real - not the U.S. rip offs and scams. In general prices are far lower than in the U.S. since they don't have to include the large legal risk premium. Also there are more providers, choosing sexwork for the right reasons, since there is not the legal risk.

Everyone should have access to reasonable priced sexual relief of that normal sexual tension or sexual variety that is natural, from professional, caring, honest providers.

In most every country except the U.S. such services are legally available and not any big deal. U.S. laws are controlled by a religious agenda that has no biblical basis, only false traditions of sexual repression that have been incorporated into laws to deny healthy sexual service options. Those that oppose sexwork the most often are the ones participating in it but their guilt makes them lash out against it. They seek to deny everyone the healthy sexual services they are not suppose to enjoy based on their perverted traditions, that are lies with no legitimate basis.

Yes, even in the U.S. there are many great honest providers. But it is sometimes hard to find them among all the scams. Organized crime is also an issue in the U.S., while in other countries simply is no "crime" to "organize"!

[Member #4186]

My point of view is you own your body as long as you are a responsible mature adult you want to smoke fine, you want to drink fine, you love hoes fine as long as you do not hurt others. Your freedom ends where your neighbor's begins. I think prostitution even drugs should be legal but not in public.A straightforward statement of the "social contract." I think that most of us would agree with those statements, or things similar, give or take. I guess, some of us misunderstood that some people were going further, to suggest as well that we should just stop whining about our lack of access and realize that the USA is the problem. I was disagreeing, to suggest to the contrary, that some people have a PROBLEM with sexual addiction (whether aided or abetted by the USA's current laws about sex-work) and that therefore the discussion isn't simply about the law.


Honest, full service, safe sex (sexwork) should be the accepted norm. Countries that doesn't have the legal repressive issues as in the U.S. ads are usually honest, prices quoted are real - not the U.S. rip offs and scams. In general prices are far lower than in the U.S. since they don't have to include the large legal risk premium. Also there are more providers, choosing sexwork for the right reasons, since there is not the legal risk.

Everyone should have access to reasonable priced sexual relief of that normal sexual tension or sexual variety that is natural, from professional, caring, honest providers.

In most every country except the U.S. such services are legally available and not any big deal. U.S. laws are controlled by a religious agenda that has no biblical basis, only false traditions of sexual repression that have been incorporated into laws to deny healthy sexual service options. Those that oppose sexwork the most often are the ones participating in it but their guilt makes them lash out against it. They seek to deny everyone the healthy sexual services they are not suppose to enjoy based on their perverted traditions, that are lies with no legitimate basis.

Yes, even in the U.S. there are many great honest providers. But it is sometimes hard to find them among all the scams. Organized crime is also an issue in the U.S., while in other countries simply is no "crime" to "organize"!Again, I don't disagree with the presumption, that we should all get sex when we want it, and be free from the hindrance of someone else's religious propaganda. Though I'd quibble with some of your associated statements (prostitution is definitely NOT "legally available" and no "big deal" in "most every country") I'm not against the general concept, that the USA is full of bible-thumpers who need to be reined in, and that such a reining in would probably increase general public consumption of sex, general safety and fairness for sex-workers and their clients, and overall happiness and morality. We're on the same page.

Here's one thing, though. I don't really want to live in a society of the type you seem to envision: where I have ready, easy access to sex-workers, and therefore I get to just go about my regular business just as I am doing here in the USA, except also I can go get laid for a reasonable price in a safe setting, with a hot girl, with no strings attached, and no risk of crime or prosecution or public recrimination or just scandalizing the school-marms. I know, it sounds like a great plan, and what the HECK would be wrong with me, a normal red-blooded American male, NOT to want something that seems so sane and rational?

Because what I want, is to NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. Yeah, I want sex, and I want it from hot women, but what I REALLY want, is to be DESIRED by those women. I want to be "dude," the "man about town," a "true ladies' man," someone whom women "can't resist." And all those other old cliches. I'm not SATISFIED when I have a good mongering experience, even when it's at a reasonably low rate and I don't get caught by either the cops or the bible-thumpers or the school-marms. I am only satisfied when the girl CRAVES me as much as I crave her. I don't want it to be about my money. I want a like-attracts-like situation.

I suppose this is an impossible dream. Maybe I'm screwed up in the head. Maybe I'm simply normal. Maybe I've deeply psycho-analyzed myself and realized that what I want is "love" and that this entails a meeting of relative equals and a sense of self-respect. Maybe I'm, to the contrary, totally un-self-aware, and I need to deeply psycho-analyze myself. I don't know, don't care.

But I do know, that in a world where the prostitutes are readily available and I can afford to visit them too often, I'd be like a recovering alcoholic in a liquor store. Or just a plain ol', NORMAL alcoholic in a liquor store. The way it stands in the USA right now, it takes up a lot of time and effort for me to get my rocks off, and every time I do with some AMP provider, it's generally a disappointment because of the lack of intimacy, the sense that I get of lack of fulfillment. It's not shame and self-loathing; none of that bible-thumping crap. No, it's a realization that I could be doing so much MORE with my life, than gadding about alone with strangers in the middle of the night, people I don't even know, and paying for access to their intimacy. Where are my social skills? My ability to land a hottie? Why am I NOT attractive to hotties? Why do I consistently lose friends, jobs, family connections, and have to find solace with a girl who was kidnapped from Seoul or Busan instead? God bless 'em, those little Koreans, I love 'em to death, they make my orgasm financially feasible. But we aren't from the same culture at all, we'll never know anything about each other, we can't really communicate beyond "hand job" and "fuckee fuckee," how can that be a "meaningful relationship"?

Anyway, just some morose thoughts for the day after the Saints went back to being Aints. Fun ride, though ... :)

[Orlando J]

Because what I want, is to NOT HAVE TO PAY FOR IT. Yeah, I want sex, and I want it from hot women, but what I REALLY want, is to be DESIRED by those women. I want to be "dude," the "man about town," a "true ladies' man," someone whom women "can't resist." And all those other old cliches. I'm not SATISFIED when I have a good mongering experience, even when it's at a reasonably low rate and I don't get caught by either the cops or the bible-thumpers or the school-marms. I am only satisfied when the girl CRAVES me as much as I crave her. I don't want it to be about my money. I want a like-attracts-like situation.There is nothing wrong with that at all I think that would be the best and I think that's one of the things that trigger my cravings.


I suppose this is an impossible dream. Maybe I'm screwed up in the head. Maybe I'm simply normal. Maybe I've deeply psycho-analyzed myself and realized that what I want is "love" and that this entails a meeting of relative equals and a sense of self-respect. Maybe I'm, to the contrary, totally un-self-aware, and I need to deeply psycho-analyze myself. I don't know, don't care. It's impossible to have it all. For example you can not have a no strings attached relation and an attached relation with the same girl. You can not eat the cake and have it.


But I do know, that in a world where the prostitutes are readily available and I can afford to visit them too often, I'd be like a recovering alcoholic in a liquor store. Or just a plain ol', NORMAL alcoholic in a liquor store. The way it stands in the USA right now, it takes up a lot of time and effort for me to get my rocks off, and every time I do with some AMP provider, it's generally a disappointment because of the lack of intimacy, the sense that I get of lack of fulfillment. It's not shame and self-loathing; none of that bible-thumping crap. No, it's a realization that I could be doing so much MORE with my life, than gadding about alone with strangers in the middle of the night, people I don't even know, and paying for access to their intimacy. Where are my social skills? My ability to land a hottie? Why am I NOT attractive to hotties? Why do I consistently lose friends, jobs, family connections, and have to find solace with a girl who was kidnapped from Seoul or Busan instead? God bless 'em, those little Koreans, I love 'em to death, they make my orgasm financially feasible. But we aren't from the same culture at all, we'll never know anything about each other, we can't really communicate beyond "hand job" and "fuckee fuckee," how can that be a "meaningful relationship"?

Anyway, just some morose thoughts for the day after the Saints went back to being Aints. Fun ride, though ... :)If you are an alcoholic do not go to bars,...etc unless you have mastered controling yourself but you do not ban liquors. The same with prostitution not because there are addicts we ban the whole thing!! Otherwise, they should ban any thing leading to addiction!

[Trav Pokerman]

Once I spent $$$$.1 over a 24hr period crowning a trifecta. It went like this 2 escorts, 1 SW, 1-BBBJCIM, 1-BBBJ69CIM, 1-Mish nut, 1-Doggie nut, 4 nuts overall and well worth the price. The rest of the month prior to the trifecta was $$.4 for 2-BBBJCIM, 2-Doggie nut, 1-Mish nut, 5 nuts overall. For a grand monthley total of 9 nuts for $$$$$$.5=.72/nut a little high but saw 3 escorts, and 3SW that month, I must have been ruting like and old HeRam. But this is once a year thing.I dated a woman for 3.5 months, spent $1,500 while dating her (yes..I actually calculated this), in addition to expenses incurred at strip clubs to relieve my anger about the nonsense she put me through. I also joined a gym because of her (as she enjoyed working out), incurring gym membership fees and personal training fees. All in, I spent THOUSANDS directly or indirectly related to her, and got NADA from her sexually, but LOTS of grief.

And people wonder why I prefer to spend my money on supposedly meaningless relationships and activities. Good thing I'm not bitter, right?

[Trav Pokerman]

I've gotten a lot of overtime money lately. I might spend all my OT money on AMP girls as it is extra money I don't need. But is it wise to do that? What do others do? Invest 50% or 5% of this OT windfall?

There are other ways to save that I am reluctant to utilize unless the point comes where I have to, such as retirement or when overtime dries up. I could save by patronizing a $20 SW rather than a CC Rider. I could limit my mongering to once a week or once a month or even to a vacation of once a year. What do others suggest?

The solution I really like is to win the lottery for a hundred million dollars which means I could indulge to an almost unlimited degree. (Really high rollers can spend an amount of money you or I could not believe.) Alternatively I could hustle extra money by a part time job or by cutting the fat in my non monger budget. How do others cope?

Double NickleCombine your vices. Win money by gambling, then spend that money on mongering.

After winning several hundred dollars in AC, I hit a strip club and got LOTS of lap dances that afternoon. Of course, I was remorseful about it afterward, but it seemed like a good idea at the time.

Here's my view on this topic. Instead of spending our money on "mainstream" women, we choose to alternatively spend that same money on strippers and others. We get variety, also.

[PsyberZombie]

Here's my view on this topic. Instead of spending our money on "mainstream" women, we choose to alternatively spend that same money on strippers and others. We get variety, also.

... And people wonder why I prefer to spend my money on supposedly meaningless relationships and activities. Good thing I'm not bitter, right?

"Why does a sleazy bastard like me like ****** so much? Why pay for it? The problem
is that the modern woman is a prostitute who doesn't deliver the goods. Teasers are
never pleasers; they greedily accept presents to seal a contract and then break it.
At least the whóre pays the flesh that's haggled for. The big difference between sex
for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less. "


Source = " If it flies, floats or fucks, you are better off renting it " ('http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=360415&postcount=2183')

[Benchseats Rock]

Source (http://www.anniesprinkle.org/html/writings/sex_addiction.html)

SEX ADDICTION

When I take the Sexual Addiction Screening Test (S.A.S.T.) it tells me that I am 96% likely to be a “sex addict”. The test consists of a list of simple questions found in the book. Contrary to Love, one of the bibles of the ‘sex addiction movement’. This book written by Patrick Carnes Ph.D., published in 1989, popularized the concept of ‘sex addiction’, and made it a household term.

Carnes describes a sex addict as someone who “experiences little pleasure, often feels despair in the middle of sex, lives a secret life surrounded by a web of lies, can’t control their sexual behavior, has delusional thought patterns and reality distortion. A sex addict frequently does or fantasizes sexual things s/he doesn't like. A sex addict is someone whose sexual behavior has become unstoppable despite serious consequences, someone whose sexual behavior and thoughts have become vastly more important than their relationships, family, work, finances, and health, someone whose sexual behavior doesn't reflect her/his highest self, etc.”. (1) According to the National Association of Sexual Addiction Problems, 6% or 1 out of 17 Americans are sexual addicts.’ That's about 14 million people. (2) Before the term sex addict came onto the scene, there was no such animal. The closest thing we had was “nymphomania, satyriasis, Don Juanism, perverts, sex fiends, and various other terms for sexual misfits.”

Let’s examine some of the questions in the S.A.S.T., and I will comment on them. Carnes says that the more ‘yes’ answers to these questions, the higher possibility the person is a sex addict.

1. Have you subscribed to sexually explicit magazines like Playboy or Penthouse?
(This question assumes that an interest in seeing naked women, or people having sex is a bad thing. Some people simply enjoy nude photos and reading articles about sex and without any negative effects.)

2. Do you often find yourself preoccupied with sexual thoughts?
(Compared to what exactly; once a minute, once an hour, once every day? This is so nebulous. To think about sex often is absolutely common.)

3. Do you feel that your sexual behavior is not normal?
(What is ‘normal’? Compared to what? ‘Normal’ has a very narrow connotation. Normal can be extremely limiting, unsatisfying and even unnatural for some people.)

4. Are any of your sexual activities against the law? (This question assumes that all illegal sexual activities are a bad thing, as opposed to maybe there are some bad laws. Perhaps some sexual activities shouldn’t be against the law, like oral and anal sex and prostitution.)

5. Have you ever felt degraded by your sexual behavior? (It is likely that anyone who has lived a full and active sex life has likely felt degraded at one time or another by a sexual experience. Perhaps this is normal, as well as common.)

6. Has sex been a way for you to escape your problems?
(In fact, sex can be an excellent and healthy way to have some relief from problems on occasion.)

7. When you have sex, do you feel depressed afterwards?
(Sex can help a person get in touch with feelings. Sometimes a person can feel depressed after sex, but this is not necessarily bad. Plus this doesn’t mean the sex is the depressing part. The depression might come from dissatisfaction with the person they are having sex with, there may be unfulfilled expectations, or maybe there’s a problem communicating, or other such problems.)

8. Do you feel controlled by your sexual desire? (We are biologically programmed to desire sex. Perhaps very strong sexual desire is appropriate and beneficial.) Etceteras.

There have been plenty of heated debates as to whether the sexual addiction concept is helpful or destructive, especially in the sex therapy community. Sexologist Marty Klein is adamantly against the idea. “The concept of ‘sex addiction’ really rests on the assumption that sex is dangerous. There's the sense that we frail humans are vulnerable to the Devil's temptations of pornography, masturbation, and extramarital affairs, and that if we yield, we become ‘addicted.’ Without question, being a sexual person is complex, and we are vulnerable--to our sex-negative heritage, shame about our bodies, and conflict about the exciting sexual feelings we can't express without risking rejection. Sexuality per se, however, is not dangerous--no matter how angry or frightened people are. Professional sexologists should reject any model suggesting that people must spend their lives

1) in fear of sexuality's destructive power;
2) being powerless about sexuality;
3) lacking the tools to relax and let sex take over when it's appropriate. …The sexual addiction movement is not harmless. These people are missionaries who want to put everyone in the missionary position.” (3)

The currently used college text book, Our Sexuality explains it this way: “The criteria often used to establish alleged sub-conditions of hypersexuality-nymphomania and satyriasis—are subjective and value laden. Therefore these terms are typically defined moralistically rather than scientifically, a fact that has generated harsh criticism from a number of professionals.” (4)

Although I ‘test positive’ as a sex addict, if I read Carne’s description of what a sex addict is like and what she/he experiences, I certainly don’t fit the description whatsoever. The test is definitely extremely flawed. The unfortunate thing is that plenty of people don’t see the flaws, or even question the validity of such a test. Sex addiction often makes a disease out of what is often quite reasonable sexual behavior. It emphasizes negative aspects of sex. It takes away some of the personal responsibility for sexual choices and blames problems on a ‘disease’. It offers simple solutions to complex problems. Marty Klein points out that, “Sex addiction legitimizes sex-negative attitudes and supports sexual guilt.” It can make people feel badly if they simply have an active and varied sex life. Sex addiction can be used as a way to put down socially disapproved of behavior. Sometimes sex is blamed for various other problems; loneliness, frustration, lying, destructive behavior, etc. Some people find that taking on the sex addict label increases the struggle they are having with problematic sexual behaviors. As Jack Morin puts it, “conflict is fuel for the compulsion.” (5) It labels a behavior as either good or bad, and there is no in-between.

Generally a 12-step program modeled after Alcoholics Anonymous, or one-on-one therapy is used to treat ‘sex addicts’. There are groups such as Sexaholics Anonymous, Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous, Sexual Addicts Anonymous, and Sexual Abuse Anonymous. These groups are very popular and they do appear to help many people find some relief for their problems. It is interesting to note that sexual addiction therapy is also a multi-million dollar industry. Many one on one therapist benefit from this concept.

There are no exact ways of measuring if someone is a ‘sex addict’. For example Gloria Steinem called President Clinton a ‘sex addict’ after his affair with Monica Lewinsky. But Jack Morin points out that “poor judgement is not a sex addiction. Extramarital sex is not a sex addiction. Having a secret erotic life is not a sex addiction.” There is no way to really know if Clinton is a sex addict or not.
Shame seems to be part of what determines sex addiction. I’m reminded of the story of when some nude photos of Vanessa Williams were published in Penthouse. She was totally ashamed, humiliated, and gave up her Miss America crown. A couple of years later when nude photos of Madonna were published in Penthouse, Madonna’s response was “so what”, and she apparently wasn’t ashamed at all. By not have shame about her nude photos, they couldn’t and didn’t hurt her. Perhaps they enhanced her career. What is a sexual nightmare for one person, can be non-issue for another. It is questionable whether a sex addict has any more or any different kinds of sex than someone who simply has an active and varied sex life. Shame may largely be what makes the difference.
Addictionologists say that a sex addict ‘uses sex to lift moods, to seek validation, to soothe feelings of loneliness, for intrigue and adventure, to go into altered states of consciousness…” Perhaps, in fact, these are perfectly valid reasons to have sex.

Granted, there are millions of people with severe sexual problems that feel out of control, people who are very conflicted about their sexual activities. Some people are drawn to very dangerous and destructive behaviors. Some sex acts can have extremely negative consequences. A person’s sexual compulsion can be incompatible with a particular intimate relationship. There are very real and serious problems that need to be addressed. But the question is if pathologizing these problems makes matters worse instead of better. Perhaps sexual ‘compulsion’ or ‘problem’ or ‘challenge’ are better terms than sexual ‘addiction’.

Many people find the whole concept of sex addiction quite ridiculous, even an oxymoron of sorts. There are some folks who call themselves sex addicts with great pride. Ironically if you do an Internet search for sexaddiction.com, you get a web site that sells porn movies. Needless to say, it is probably a very prosperous site.


END.

FOOTNOTES
1. Carnes Ph.D., Patrick. Contrary to Love—Helping the Sexual Addict.
2. Klein, Marty. Website.
3. ibid.
4. Crooks, Robert and Baur, Karla. Our Sexuality (P. 562-563)
5. Morin, Jack. Eros and Compulsion: A Paradoxical view of Sex Addiction. IASHS lecture on Feb 8, 2000

BIBLIOGRAPHY
Carnes Ph.D., Patrick. Contrary to Love—Helping the Sexual Addict. CompCare Publishers, Minneapolis. 1989.
Carnes Ph.D., Patrick. Out of the Shadows—Understanding Sexual Addiction. Minneapolis. 1983.
Crooks, Robert and Baur, Karla. Our Sexuality (Seventh Edition), Brooks/Cole Publishing, 1999 (P. 562-563)
Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous. First Edition. The Augustine Fellowship. Boston. 1986.

WEB SITES
www.sexaddict.com
www.sexaddicted.com (XXX site)
http://www.sexed.org/arch/arch08.htm Marty Klein’s website.

VIDEOS
Morin, Jack. Eros and Compulsion: A Paradoxical view of Sex Addiction. IASHS lecture on Feb 8, 2000.

[AmIaCriminal2]

face it, we are being oppressed and then being blamed as the bad guy so that we are too ashamed to speak out about the oppression. By making what we need illegal and just out of reach, it keeps us spending our money making Vice into BIG BUSINESS. Sex is a need. Just like any other bodily function. Both physically and mentally. This crap about being "degrading". Let em go work at Mcdonalds and see which one is more degrading. Give me a freaking break.

[Member #4186]

BSR, that's a great little line-up of comments. I'm so glad you posted it.

Here's the thing. I wouldn't call myself a "sex addict" merely because I go bang strippers in the back room. I DO call myself, "someone with a problem" (whether or not I define that problem as "sex addiction") because I do a lot of self-destructive things:

1. I spend more money than I "ought" to on pussy. Whether that's on looking at strippers, or on fucking them, is beside the point. It all comes out of a big slush-fund that I'd rather put into a house or an early retirement.

2. I spend more time and energy than I "ought" to on pussy. It takes forever to involve myself in this hobby. For example:

A. going out all night

B. getting drunk before boning a girl, because I know the alcohol-factor makes my experience more enjoyable, and "lubricates" the event by bringing it to pass in a way that is more palatable

C. avoiding regular relationships with "civilian" girls because I don't want to have to cheat on them, run logistical circles around them in order to avoid them when I'm mongering, etc.

D. not having happy friendships with anyone, having to keep secrets, having to keep my evenings and weekends free, etc.

So, am I a sex addict? I dunno, don't care. I don't think I'm "addicted" because, I don't think the "need" for the substance is unreasonable. But I DO think I'm "controlled" to an undesirable degree.

It's kind of like saying that humans are "addicted" to food. Sure we are. We have to have it every day, regularly, more than once, in order to survive. But is that a "bad" thing? If we're all GETTING ENOUGH food then, what's the problem?

Same thing for me. If ONLY I could

-- get enough sex regularly from a variety of women in the civilian world who are interesting to me --

then I would

-- not have to spend all this time money energy trying to get enough throgh other means.

It's ruining my life. I have no career, no prospects of one, no girlfriend, no friends, I live with mom and dad and only spend my time looking at internet boards about sex, going out to get sex, saving up money for sex, etc. Why the HELL won't normal girls fuck me? They didn't, even before I moved back in with my parents. It has something to do with "got game" or "don't got game," two of the most nebulous and annoying concepts I've ever dealt with in my life.

It is a morally corrupt thing, to judge a fellow human on the basis of floating criteria, the general "holistic approach" by which you can't define why you did or didn't like them. But, that's what we EXPECT from fully 50% of the human species, 100% of the time.

That's bullshit. It needs to change.

[Civ2000]

I think the test is okay. I'll put my remarks in quotation marks""""




Let’s examine some of the questions in the S.A.S.T., and I will comment on them. Carnes says that the more ‘yes’ answers to these questions, the higher possibility the person is a sex addict.

1. Have you subscribed to sexually explicit magazines like Playboy or Penthouse? "Yes, most of us have subscribed to such magazines. But to sex addicts they often permeate our lives. I for example had over 200 by the time I was 14. Most addicts have a pretty good porno supply. There is nothing wrong with viewing nude women as long as it doesn't take over."

2. Do you often find yourself preoccupied with sexual thoughts? "Of course we are all preoccupied with sexual thoughts. But do your thoughts interfere with normal activity like work or socializing with a woman? An addicts often does to the point where he has to leave work and act on his thoughts. I've gone cruising for hookers on my lunch break before and missed the rest of the day."

3. Do you feel that your sexual behavior is not normal? "My sexual behavior is not normal. Cruising for a skanky Denny Park hooker while I've got a willing girlfriend asleep next to me in bed is not normal behavior. I'm not talking fetishes or stuff like getting peed on, I'm talking about stuff that would scare an ordinary guy to death."


4. Are any of your sexual activities against the law? "I don't think this was a judgement about whether sex work should be legal or not, but rather an indication that one was so controlled by sex that he would risk his career, wife, whatever by risking arrest in the pursuit of sex. In my occupation for example, I would lose my job. A non-addict probably wouldn't risk it, an addict doesn't seem to have the choice."

5. Have you ever felt degraded by your sexual behavior? "Of course we all have. We've met some drunk girl at a party and then woke up and saw how disgusting she was. But my behavior degrades me on a regular basis. Ever pull out of a SW and then notice she has track marks up and down her arms. Not a nice feeling."

6. Has sex been a way for you to escape your problems? Again, for most people a great way to escape problems. But most non-addicts also have sex just for the fun of it. Addicts seem to use sex as a drug.

7. When you have sex, do you feel depressed afterwards? "Almost every guy I meet in meetings feels depressed after having sex with a SW." Whereas I don't think most men with a healthy sexuality feel this way on a regular basis."


8. Do you feel controlled by your sexual desire? "Once again, no absolute symptom of addiction, but addicts feel completely controlled by sexual desire."



The list doesn't tell you that you are an addict. It merely says if you answer yes to enough of them that there is a chance you are addicted and if you feel like your life is out of control perhaps you should consider the possibility.


“The concept of ‘sex addiction’ really rests on the assumption that sex is dangerous. There's the sense that we frail humans are vulnerable to the Devil's temptations of pornography, masturbation, and extramarital affairs, and that if we yield, we become ‘addicted.

I disagree. I've never heard any counselor, author, or sex addict say that sex was dangerous. Most merely want people to enjoy a healthy sexuality. Since it is rather difficult to find a loving partner and make a relationship work, it is often easier to succumb to pornography, compulsive masterbation, and affairs. Often it is such a simple fix that one can become addicted and seek it out to the exclusion of everything else in life he enjoys.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BSR

There are no exact ways of measuring if someone is a ‘sex addict’. For example Gloria Steinem called President Clinton a ‘sex addict’ after his affair with Monica Lewinsky. But Jack Morin points out that “poor judgement is not a sex addiction. Extramarital sex is not a sex addiction. Having a secret erotic life is not a sex addiction.” There is no way to really know if Clinton is a sex addict or not.



I totally agree, except that Bill Clinton labels himself a sex addict. If you are addicted to sex you know it. All of these things you point out don't necessarily mean addiction. But when you use the standard "continues an activity despite negative consequences" you see that Bill had extremely negative consequences. He lied under oath, risked impeachment, probably hurt his wife badly and lot's of other really negative stuff that he knew about going in, but did anyway.

I think all this stuff about whether it is an addition or not is mute. To those of you who feel you are in control and can quit anytime the circumstances start to turn disatrous, then fine. You are not an addict and you know it. No book or quiz, or person will convince you otherwise.

On the other hand, if you are spending all your money, losing good friends and relationships, catching one disease after another, getting arrested, losing jobs, and despite repeated and sincere attempts to quit, you cant; then using the addiction model is easy. Really, how can you say that is not an addiction?

[Member #4186]

Civ2000,

I don't mean to nit-pick, because I agree with most of what you say, and I like the approach -- of adding a general middle-road approach to the whole question, rather than staring at extremes. But I have a point that does somehow differentiate your understanding from mine.

By the statements of yours quoted here:


On the other hand, if you are spending all your money, losing good friends and relationships, catching one disease after another, getting arrested, losing jobs, and despite repeated and sincere attempts to quit, you cant; then using the addiction model is easy. Really, how can you say that is not an addiction?Can't we ALSO say, for example, that humans are "addicted" to food, oxygen, and a certain range of temperate degrees between roughly 40 and 100 on the Fahrenheit scale? I know, I know, that sounds silly, and it seems like I'm kind of avoiding the issue.

But to me, it's NOT avoiding the issue, to point out that we all "need" (or are "addicted to") food and air. When we have very few resources, we DO spend all our resources on food, for example. Then if we have a few more resources, we spend them on food and clothing. Then we work our way up to shelter. Doesn't it seem reasonable to understand, that there are a lot of negative repercussions of this "addicted" approach to food, because of which we can't save every penny we ever earn and stock it away at 10% from the bank, thus enabling an early retirement and all the food we might ever want, but eat it later instead of right now? Can't be done.

Sex, to me, is something else that we all (or, at least, that *I*) also NEED. So, using the addiction model is somewhat misleading. Yes, the quest for more sex is ruining a lot of things in my life; but the ABSENCE of it makes life ruined, as well. Just like the absence of food, or air, would "ruin" my life.

So, little bells go off in my head, when you suggest that Clinton probably was a sex addict because of the negative repercussions he knew he would experience:


But when you use the standard "continues an activity despite negative consequences" you see that Bill had extremely negative consequences. He lied under oath, risked impeachment, probably hurt his wife badly and lot's of other really negative stuff that he knew about going in, but did anyway.But is it not possible, that for him, life WITHOUT sex is even more negative, than life-as-cheating-Bill? I mean, he got to remain President, he got an orgasm, he managed to deflect potential criticisms of his Whitewater scandal by means of redirecting the zealotries of Ken Starr toward his sex-pocket instead of his wallet-pocket, etc.

Really, none of us KNOWS what it would be like to give up on sex right away. It's all just a theory, an imaginary situation. How do we know that "it's controlling me" when we can't possibly have a control group in a scientific experiment?

So, what I want to know, is, how do I get laid more often, with our without mongering for it. I don't want the negative repercussions of mongering, sure; but I do consider NOT getting laid, to be a negative repercussion, of not mongering. Your thoughts?

[Orlando J]

Right on the point.


face it, we are being oppressed and then being blamed as the bad guy so that we are too ashamed to speak out about the oppression. By making what we need illegal and just out of reach, it keeps us spending our money making Vice into BIG BUSINESS. Sex is a need. Just like any other bodily function. Both physically and mentally. This crap about being "degrading". Let em go work at Mcdonalds and see which one is more degrading. Give me a freaking break.Why are we addicts? These are some thoughts;

I think you are all right but each one represented a different view.

Use it or lose it as in "40yr old virgin" movie. Also control and abuse of the habit. As in "40 days and 40 nights" movie. Finally, perception men are visual.

[Snake27]

I have contributed to this thread before and gave some specific advice on how to mitigate the dangers. My post is now buried many pages back, but I guess you could search on my handle if you felt like it. I have made some progress battling the addiction and am a lot more tame and careful than I used to be, though I'm not an angel yet.

Anyway, the reason I'm posting now is to mention an interesting article in www.wikipedia.org, the free and open-source online encyclopedia. Just enter "sexual addiction" in the search. It mentions a lot of the things Civ2000 discusses. It also discusses the major role of the "feel good" neurotransmitter dopamine. Yeah, I've felt that high too.

The article is a little short on remedies. The main advice seems to be "seek professional help" -- counseling, therapy, etc. I guess there's little "self help" advice on this topic, particularly as most addicts live in denial most of the time. But I appreciate this thread, and especially Civ2000, I think it helps a little.

[Civ2000]

Civ2000,

I don't mean to nit-pick, because I agree with most of what you say, and I like the approach -- of adding a general middle-road approach to the whole question, rather than staring at extremes. But I have a point that does somehow differentiate your understanding from mine.

By the statements of yours quoted here:

Can't we ALSO say, for example, that humans are "addicted" to food, oxygen, and a certain range of temperate degrees between roughly 40 and 100 on the Fahrenheit scale? I know, I know, that sounds silly, and it seems like I'm kind of avoiding the issue.

But to me, it's NOT avoiding the issue, to point out that we all "need" (or are "addicted to") food and air. When we have very few resources, we DO spend all our resources on food, for example. Then if we have a few more resources, we spend them on food and clothing. Then we work our way up to shelter. Doesn't it seem reasonable to understand, that there are a lot of negative repercussions of this "addicted" approach to food, because of which we can't save every penny we ever earn and stock it away at 10% from the bank, thus enabling an early retirement and all the food we might ever want, but eat it later instead of right now? Can't be done.

Sex, to me, is something else that we all (or, at least, that *I*) also NEED. So, using the addiction model is somewhat misleading. Yes, the quest for more sex is ruining a lot of things in my life; but the ABSENCE of it makes life ruined, as well. Just like the absence of food, or air, would "ruin" my life.

So, little bells go off in my head, when you suggest that Clinton probably was a sex addict because of the negative repercussions he knew he would experience:

But is it not possible, that for him, life WITHOUT sex is even more negative, than life-as-cheating-Bill? I mean, he got to remain President, he got an orgasm, he managed to deflect potential criticisms of his Whitewater scandal by means of redirecting the zealotries of Ken Starr toward his sex-pocket instead of his wallet-pocket, etc.

Really, none of us KNOWS what it would be like to give up on sex right away. It's all just a theory, an imaginary situation. How do we know that "it's controlling me" when we can't possibly have a control group in a scientific experiment?

So, what I want to know, is, how do I get laid more often, with our without mongering for it. I don't want the negative repercussions of mongering, sure; but I do consider NOT getting laid, to be a negative repercussion, of not mongering. Your thoughts?

I'll try to answer some of your points in no particular order. I said I thought Bill Clinton was a sex addict because he has admitted undergoing treatment for sexual addiction and considers himself such. I can't label someone an addict; they have to accept or reject that conclusion on their own.

I don't believe that people are addicted to food, oxygen, or anything else we absolutely need, despite the fact we may spend all or most of our available resources on them. Food can be an addiction however, if one is experiencing severe consequences as a result of overeating. If one is diabetic for example and can't stop eating candy bars regardless of how hard he tries, I would say he's addicted to sugar at the very least.

The absence of food and oxygen wouldn't just ruin your life, it would end your life. The absence of sex will not. A lot of people for whatever reason have to settle at times in their lives with masterbation, and perhaps celibacy. Sure for most of us, sex improves our quality of life and without it many would feel like it wasn't worth living. But needing to spend a thousand a month on hookers despite not having the basic necessities like rent paid and food and clothing is not a healthy sexual need. I personally don't find anything wrong or addictive with having sex with three hookers a day, everyday of the year if they can afford it, don't have negative consequences, and can stop whenever they want.

The second hallmark of addiction besides the continuation despite negative consequences is a subsequent lack of control. The addict wants to stop but can't. Much like cigarettes or alcohol.

As part of my recovery I went without sex or masterbation for 90 days and it actually was great. I had lot's of energy, I was much more focused on meeting and talking to women, and it wasn't overly hard after the first two weeks.

How do you get laid more often? Well for a fifties guy like myself, it basically means lowering your standards. The problem is that I like 18 y/o's that are hot. But I could get laid constantly if I was looking for women in my age group.

Snake, Thanks for the compliments. I'm glad I said something that helped.

[Member #4186]

Civ2000 -- thanks for your comments. I mostly agree with them. I was just playing devil's advocate, in my lines about "air addiction" and other silly extremes. For me, the PROBLEM is, when the sexual activity leads to problems. Duh. :)

Like you said, if you can afford it and there are no negative repercussions, then why not have sex with three different (safe clean happy) hookers a day for the rest of your life? If you CAN'T afford it? Or there ARE negatives? THEN it's an issue to be dealt with.

That, and the "can't stop" phenomenon. I don't know if I "can't stop" or if I simply don't yet CHOOSE to stop. It all feels like the same thing. I LIKE fucking. I like women. I haven't ever really lowered my standards (as another person reports) to the point that I feel I could, ever, get sex from a civilian without basically spending 100% of my time seeking it out.

And heck, I live in New Orleans and it's Mardi Gras! So there MUST be some kind of resistance or "problem" in my skills with picking up civilian women, if I can't get laid HERE! Golly.

:(

[AmIaCriminal2]

I am dealing with a problem that I can't seem to get rid of. I have been married to my wife for 9 years, mostly monogomus with since 1995 except for 8 times and a few BJ's now and then at times when we were split up when she'd leave me. A couple of years ago I started going to stripclubs after I thought our marriage was on it's final leg because I just don't make friends, tried to be too responsible and had lost the respect of my wife and was just lonely for "friends" and I don't get along with other dudes.

Anyway, I have one particular dancer that I wake up thinking about and go to bed thinking about for the past year and a half. I have had "dreams" with a few other dancers, one that was comparable in looks to my obsession, but I can't get her out of my mind and she doesn't do anything for me except when I first met her. I told my wife I was going to stripclubs and after a severe argument I was adament that I have no friends (we actually joined a group were we meet other dog owners and I wound up getting shunned from that as well as regular bars, religion which I disagree with, and I just don't seem to fit in anywhere) but anyway this one stripclub just reminds me of my teen and early 20's and one girl imparticular just drives me nuts. I have been able to get by with just seeing her once every couple of months and going to other clubs to try to forget about her but it just doesn't work. I bought a motorcycle and tried working a second job and that doesn't help much either. Has anyone had a similiar problem and was there a way to quit being so screwed up? I did meet a dancer at another club that looked similiar to her that I spent some time with and I woke up the next day thinking of the new chick but then she disppeared and I started thinking about the old one again. Is this a common problem for guys in their late thirtees with matrital problems or am I really screwed up or just need a freaking hobby?

[Member #4186]

No, you're not screwed up. You're just not particularly skilled at dealing with emotions, or emotional connections. That's OK, we all have our strengths and weaknesses.

I'm very sorry you find it difficult to make friends, and feel that you end up shunned by different groups. (By the way, I don't recommend that you try religion, and I agree with you that it's a bad plan. The people who gather at churches are even WORSE about being negative toward strangers, even toward people who haven't done anything to them at all.) I sometimes feel like that.

Sure, going to strip clubs is one way to fantasize, for a little bit of time, that your contact with a hot-looking girl or two is a "friendship" that provides you with sensations of "intimacy," but you know that she isn't "really" in your life. For some men, this is a good arrangement, because they can easily leave the fantasy behind, but still gain all the benefits of the positive endorphins, the sense of closeness, even just the sexual thrill of looking at / groping / having sex with a hot younger woman. But for some men, it's too difficult for them to leave the fantasy behind, and it starts to trail them into their "real" lives.

It just sounds to me like you're still trying to grow up. We all of us need to LEARN social skills, emotional skills, including the ability to make friends, the ability to understand who is trustworthy and who is actually just out to make a buck, the ability to feel close only when the real stimuli actually merit that feeling. I remember being an awkward adolescent who didn't know any of that stuff, and felt buffeted about by my emotions. They just "happened" on their own, and I felt like I was a total victim of them. Later, I learned how to let myself have emotions, but also how to make sure I had good emotions, and how to feel only appropriately given the circumstances. I don't know what it is that flipped the switch for me -- mostly, it's just time and growth.

I don't know how you can step up out of that trap. Maybe you won't ever grow away from your emotional reactivity; maybe you'll find that the idea of emotional proactivity is utterly impossible for you. I can't guarantee anything for you. But I do suggest that you're doing the right thing by trying to address it.

Young women who work at strip clubs, I'm sure you know, aren't great catches. They're delightful to be with for the time that you're at the club, but that's because they're on their best behavior, and they're DELIBERATELY being pleasing toward you. If you had to earn their desire and respect, and only got them to treat you nicely and pay attention to you if they WANTED to and if they LIKED you and thought of you as an equal, would they still be acting the same way? It's pretty unlikely. I mean, sure, they might still be polite to you, but I doubt that most of them would volunteer to grind on your lap just because they thought you had a nice shirt, or because she wanted to date you. To get people to REALLY want to date you takes a whole different set of strengths.

I don't know if there are places to learn to date. I read up for a long time in the "seduction community," a group of young men who are interested in learning to be socially proactive. Many of them learn how to pick up attractive young women, although I don't know if that is actually a possibility for me (I'm well beyond my prime in age) or if it would be for you, either. But some of the lessons are still applicable, from there. They teach you to find your own best strengths and play off of them; to be proactive about approaching strangers, and where to do so, and in what manner; and to basically have a positive outlook on life, realizing that the things that you make of it (rather than merely the things you buy at a strip club) are what are worth having.

[Rap Chik]

Did any of you guys tried to get rid off sexual addiction and did it work? This hobby is costing me more money time and resources than I expected.

Pls dont tell me to go to a church.

I tried all kinds of things including stopping masturbation but nothing, NOTHING worked for me.

[Member #4186]

Did any of you guys tried to get rid off sexual addiction and did it work? This hobby is costing me more money time and resources than I expected.

Pls dont tell me to go to a church.

I tried all kinds of things including stopping masturbation but nothing, NOTHING worked for me.STOPPING masturbation? Geez, I'd think that taking up EXTRA masturbation would have been more likely to work than CEASING ...

I dunno, what works for one might not work for another. It will likely be a lifetime challenge to stay "on the wagon" about any addiction.

[AmIaCriminal2]

The only answer to beating this "addiction" to me would seem to earn enough money that the spending isn't a problem. But it is a rejection issue for me. I have never "fit in" anywhere in my life.

I was raised by religious fanatics when I was a child, my father a violent religious fanatic, I wound up in a religious orphanage in my teens that was coed thankfully, and had some luck with the girls there but got kicked out just before turning 18 and sent to live in Atlanta. I won't go into too much detail, but imagine an 18 year old coming from the country brainwashed by Bible Thumpers his whole life and dropped into a major US city what trouble he might find. So I dreamt that after I got of prison in 1991 I wound up driving taxis and met alot of SW's that helped me earn cab fair for a few years until I was turned on to a private dancer that I dreamt of driving around for money and hiring girls, and I dreamt about returning to the area I was origianlly born in and my former aquintances earned a living through fabrication and sales, which led me to more contact with certain types of women, but never any stable relationships of trust and history, always money, game and hustling. I now am in a legitamite sales industry, married, child on the way and have such a lonliness and am a stripclub addict. I know that if I were successful in my sales job I would hire woman as escorts just to hang out with me. It isn't a nudity thing, it is more of a conversation thing with me. Of course I spend way more than I can afford on lap dances and tips and drinks and really feel desperate that no woman that I want will do anything for me, and I may have to dream about a lower class of club with a lower class of girl than I'd wish for, but for me it is more of a "I don't fit in" thing trying to get my ego healed. I can't hold conversations with people generally and dancers will at least talk to me. And sex for me is the only thing that makes me feel accepted, so I guess for me it is an acceptance thing.

I find that when I am not sulking around at stripclubs or looking for SW's, I am on forums like this and stripclub or internet dating sites and I can't get the desire out of my mind or the lonliness. I know that earning more money would put me in a position to have the company that I desire in my life, so my answer for me is to become discustingly successful in business to be able to spend as much time as I need fulfilling my desires with hot beautiful women, however, my dilemma is that I am a failure in business and that sucks.

[Member #4186]

I often feel, that "if only" I could get one of a number of things in my life, then my "need" to attend strip clubs and prostitutes would go away.

"If only" I were really really rich, then I could spend most of my life in a Rio de Janeiro brothel in Brazil, having sex with hot-looking women when I wanted, and playing soccer on some men's recreational club when I wanted, and otherwise hanging out at the beach.

"If only" I knew how to pick up women, I could find a way to get North American girls who look hot and turn me on to have dates with me, without me having to pay them in prostitutional arrangements.

"If only" I were a stud at business, or with the women, then I'd be getting what I NEED in life in one way, and therefore wouldn't have to get it in the other way, the way that I DO get it.

I don't know if that's true. I did have a time of my life when I had a really hot girl as a girlfriend, once, and though she was clinically depressed, lots of guys probably wanted to date her and they probably were jealous of me. But I still went to strip clubs. I snuck around behind her back to bone the girls at high-extras clubs, instead of appreciating the girlfriend I did have.

And I do have the chance to go out and try to pick up hot-looking young women. I live in New Orleans, heck, everyone comes here to sleep around for the fun of it. It's second only to Las Vegas for "what happens in the city stays in the city." But I don't even try. I just walk around Bourbon Street, convinced that I'm "not wanted", lonely, sure that I am not part of the "in" crowd of "cool" people, that I can't relate. Then I go to a strip club.

"If only" doesn't always work. I don't know any solutions. I do believe, for you, Mr. Amiacriminal, that if you were to get your business success, you'd probably find that you feel just as alienated as you do now when you don't have the money. You speak a lot about how you "don't fit in" but you don't mention anything that you're doing to find a group that you DO fit into, or steps you're taking to change who you are from a person who doesn't mesh with those groups, to the sort of person who DOES mesh with those groups.

It's a complicated issue. I don't have any solutions. I believe sometimes that all I ever do is fuck, think about fucking, go to web boards about fucking, or wish I hadn't just fucked some girl at an AMP who I had really really wanted to fuck. It's just one long cycle. I haven't ever really enjoyed the sex, not like the first few times when I found that prostitutes would respond to me. I remember that first occasion, after finally enjoying myself with a woman, driving around pumping my fist in the air "Woo hoo!" yeah I was so proud of myself. Now it seems kind of pathetic, to be PROUD of having paid for sex; but at the time, it was a big step, a major change for me, and it FINALLY paid off. North American women were such cunts to me, rejecting me BECAUSE (evidently) I was a good catch (they reward bad behavior, punish good, "make him wait" and all that) and I simply couldn't understand the system.

Still don't, really. Just relating a story about what it felt like the first few times I got laid by a prostitute. But that thrill is gone nowadays. Now, I just feel empty, like, "Why did I have to do that? I can't remember ..."

[AmIaCriminal2]

"If only" doesn't always work. I don't know any solutions. I do believe, for you, Mr. Amiacriminal, that if you were to get your business success, you'd probably find that you feel just as alienated as you do now when you don't have the money. You speak a lot about how you "don't fit in" but you don't mention anything that you're doing to find a group that you DO fit into, or steps you're taking to change who you are from a person who doesn't mesh with those groups, to the sort of person who DOES mesh with those groups. "Thanx for the respones Book.

Actually for three months last year I was extremely successful in business, and would dream of going to a particular stripclub where I would get the best tittie fuck/bbj's in my life from a girl that is the second most attractive woman I have ever met and in some departments the absolute best I have ever met, then I would also see a couple of girls there on night shift and Saturdays, one that I had one dream of fs with being the most attractive woman I have ever laid my eyes on, at least as far as what I am interested in. And my life was pretty much perfect other than the fact that I knew the money wasn't likely to stick around for long, and unfortunatley for me I was correct. But what I did to try to stop going to stripclubs and SW?

Martial Arts classes, very expensive and ultimately recieved a broken tail bone, I went to Meetup.com and joined a Chihuahua owners group with my wife, we just weren't "welcomed" in conversations, then at a PETA group a Jack Russle attacked my dogs where as I remember a dream where its owner wasnt trying to stop it and I couldn't catch the Jack Russle so I punted it through the air about 20 feet, and then none of the animal rights people liked me anymore, not that they did to begin with. I purchased a Harley and started riding 140 miles to Daytona and marketing add space for a Biker Magazine but failed at it and my regular income disappeared so I couldn't afford to keep on with the magazine due to having to drive 300+ miles a month to distibute them, but I had a blast doing it. I am just answering what I have done to try to fit in with people. I think it has something to do with how I was raised by first my parents and then the childrens home always alienating me from others and treating me like I was not good enough to be treated normal. But then since it still follows me it must be something about me, but I don't know what it is. And I am fine with it. I go to a stripclub and can get the conversation I need, and if I am too lonely, I know where to go. My "problem" with my situation is one particular girl that I just can't get out of my mind, I'll get a bbj or more from another girl and get her mostly off of my mind, but only for a few days. I don't know. But when I do give in and see her I am walking on clouds for months and it actually makes my wife alot nicer to me. So for me it is more of a money issue. I guess what I was trying to post on here originally was that other than asking if it is normal to have an obseesion about a woman knowing that it'll never be a real relationship and accepting in but still liking the company of whatever relationship is available with her as friends or business or just aquintance, was that for me I learned how to deal with my emotional or mental "problems" and look at the probable root causes, hoping that others may be able to look at themselves and try to find what is missing in their lives that they may be trying to compensate or overcompensate for. My father told me a couple of months ago why he was so violent and it explains his overprotective and insane religious actions due to he was molested by a man when he was 12. And here I always thought he wasn't my dad, or I did something unforgivable at the age of 2 years old or something. No he was just screwed up dealing with something he was ashamed of, and he vented it through religion and violence. Thankfully he never molested any of my siblings, just tried to kill a couple of us now and then, but what I am saying is that for me I need some affection sometimes and don't accept that I am a "bad person" for it. But I do need to address my feelings and find solutions, and I hope others can find what they need in life. Just because the law says a set speed limit it doesn't mean that you should get in a collision or run someone over if you can avoid a serious incident by skirting the law, and I believe this holds true in other areas of my life as well.

[Member #4186]

To AmI: dude, you're rambling a bit. I'm not sure what your exact complaint is, or whether you just need to talk for a while. I frankly have a lot of similar worries about my life -- inability to "fit in" to clubs that I might have joined, a deep sense of being the "outsider," a bit of resentment at the "cool people" who are members of the "inside" group, an interest in super-hot-looking younger women, and an overall sense of my own failure at establishing social bonds that I would have wanted to create, including with those "cool" people and with the hottie young women. I don't know much about the effect of your upbringing -- I had a normal childhood, very supportive in fact, and my parents are really a well-balanced pair with whom I have a positive relationship even today, so I'm not so sure that your troubles necessarily stem from some kind of "rejection" you might have experienced, since you and I have similar troubles now but quite different experiences from back then.

Anyway, if you want to talk, I'm always here to write a few thoughts. I certainly know what you (we) are struggling with.

Here's what bugs me similarly. I have just spent, for example, most of today ogling hot-looking women at the Jazz Fest in New Orleans. You'd think that would be great, right? WRONG!!

I love attending this festival, but I also hate it, because inevitably I end up feeling "left out." Very few people go to it "stag" or solo, but I somehow always do. Either I go over there with a family group (mom and dad and a cousin, or their friends, or some such), people I don't want to hang out with. They're cool and fun, but not in my demographic, ya know, or they don't want to listen to loud music when I do and vice versa, or ... ya know, it's just kinda hard to get stoned with your mom. :) Or I go over there alone or expecting to meet someone and I never do.

So, I wouldn't miss the fest for the world. I love the food, I love the cacophony, and the big crowd, and the attitude that everyone has, the whole key-west thing of guys with their shirts off, girls in bikini tops, everyone hanging out in a relaxed loud atmosphere, walking from one band to another without having to wait in line, and of course the food. Did I mention the food? I love the food. :)

Anyway, I love it, but I also hate it. Because I always see lots of hot women who are, basically, just a tantalization. They are not in my life. It's like going to a strip club -- look but don't touch! The women are in little groups, with their little annoying boyfriends, or with their husbands (I am starting to notice that all the hotties my age are married, this is even MORE disconcerting!), or just doing their own thing. And I don't know how to get involved in THEIR thing, I just kind of float along, looking at them looking at me. So I hate having to feel left out, not knowing how to interact.

I mean, I DO interact. "Hey, you havin' fun? Great fest! Hot. Can I get a falafel please? Man last year I saw Dr. John up close, this year you can't even get close enough to HEAR him! Hey baby, lookout for the golf cart! John, wassup! Yo who ya here with? Did you see Janet, she just got married!" etc. etc. But interaction is always just on a "normal" level, it never seems to move on to "maybe I can bone this chick." Except of course with butt-ugly chicks, who are drunk enough to be all up in my face about it, "Boys don't like strong women, why aren't you buying ME a drink, lookatmeeeeI'mSOOOOOOOOOdrunk, I don't understand why men don't like a girl with a little bit more SKIN than just some SKINNY chick" ick.

So I end up thinking to myself, these festivals would be GREAT if I had some bikini-model-hot chick on my arm. Or two. But I never will. So I'm lonely. Even in that sea of tits waggling about in bikinis, I am still reminded that I don't have a pair of tits to call my own. Or a hot woman attached to them. :(

[Rap Chik]

xxxxxxxxWhy can't you find the stripper in your wife. In other words whts wrong with your marriage?

Option #2: If you are financially settled, try offering an LTR with the girl you're obsessed with.

Option #3(Linked with option 1): If you aren't happy with your marriage, say adios and try getting into a relation ship..

All the options would work for you unless you're 300 pounds, have bad breath, Extremely awful in looks and above 70 in age.

[Member #4186]

Rap chik: though I think your advice may be well-intentioned, I believe it hits very far off the mark. There's really no way, that a man who is feeling that he can't get along with groups of friends or with single attractive women, can just up and "get a relationship" with someone. Sure, it WOULD be a wonderful solution for an awful lot of lonely people, to just magically "get something better," but what you're not understanding is, that the problem isn't that they have something worse; the problem is, that they CAN'T get something better. Don't you think they'd be pretty likely to have done that if it were so easy?

I know that for me, all I really want is a hot girlfriend. But I keep on ending up with average or below-average girlfriends, or no girlfriend at all, or (worse) a girlfriend that doesn't tempt me enough that I choose not to go to strip clubs. So, although the advice, "get a hot girlfriend" might indeed be exactly what I need, actually DOING it is a different story altogether.

Reminds me of the old Vince Lombardi advice: "Hey Vince, how do you win?" "Score more than they do." Gee, thanks ... sure, it's true, but the trick is to know HOW to score more and HOW to keep them from scoring as much.

[AmIaCriminal2]

" There's really no way, that a man who is feeling that he can't get along with groups of friends or with single attractive women, can just up and "get a relationship" with someone. Sure, it WOULD be a wonderful solution for an awful lot of lonely people, to just magically "get something better," but what you're not understanding is, that the problem isn't that they have something worse; the problem is, that they CAN'T get something better. Don't you think they'd be pretty likely to have done that if it were so easy?"I did try to get her to date me, wouldn't do it. But I think it is a "property of Motorcycle Club" type thing. I can go to other clubs for company, but I always have her on my mind. I was just wondering if it was extremely abnormal to have a chick branded into my mind in my late thirtees like a school kid crush. My wife is my best friend I have ever had except for sexually, she just doesn't have the sex drive that I do, and my experience with women has been that they are either prudes or ****** and I have never found an inbetween, and for my childrens mother I would prefer a stable mother /wife that looks the other way on my filandering, so in that one aspect in life I hit the freaking jack pot, of course I tell her I am only talking to girls and I smell like perfume from a hug. But she isn't stupid. I would've left her last year when we were fighting, actually once I started going to stripclubs and told her about it we stopped fighting. So it actually saved my marriage and brought us closer. But when I was too responsible and working and planning for business growth she despised me. But I started drinking, chasing women and losing my business she loves me. Go figure.

[Rap Chik]

My wife is my best friend I have ever had except for sexually, she just doesn't have the sex drive that I do.If I were you and if I find my wife attractive enough to have sex(no offense just my 2 cents) I would do this:

- I would tell her that I have high sex drive(i am sure she would know by now) and her "lack of sex drive" is going to kill our marriage.

-(Since you said she is your best friend)I would trust her and confess my addiction towards a woman and tell her that it is costing a lot of money and might cost a relation in the future and I wouldn't want to loose her.

She would be intelligent/kind enough to console and counsel me and work towards her "low sex drive".

I believe marriage is all about understanding and adjusting for each other.

[Fourth Gen]

Something not so common in California. Asian Ladies Galore here on this island! Sexually addicted to the high of some strange? Asian Strange? Yes.. I guess I fully haven't grown up yet and in my mid-thirty's. I'm not one to jump around either, I find my one that I'm attracted to and I stick to it. I guess you can say I contribute to the high of sex addiction. Just not with the one I'm married to. I lead a happy life, work hard, sleep little and find myself a beach to snooze on.

Dating? Who has time for dating, and broken hearts do still happen you know. Then again, looking at Actual Street Prostitution? No way... Nasty, forget it. Where there is a massage parlor, there is a solitude of privacy still left in this world. As for unsafe sex?? Ummm Not... These days reading the artilces of people doing such. And every freak like me trying out some strange.. Not.

On another note,

Not that my Wife is a bore, well maybe she thinks I have issues and a bore, don't know. But to make a long story short, I'm married and with children, but life always needs spice, and my Wife wants more kids, I don't, and she'll probably end up leaving me soon this year. Not that I'm a cheat, but that she isn't really my match or have any care or desire to learn engrish so i've found out in the last few years of our turmoils. Now I kind of see why older guys end up with younger women! A guy with baggage is not an uncommon thing, why a guy would leave his wife? Welcome to my world.

[Fourth Gen]

Did any of you guys tried to get rid off sexual addiction and did it work? This hobby is costing me more money time and resources than I expected.

Pls dont tell me to go to a church.

I tried all kinds of things including stopping masturbation but nothing, NOTHING worked for me.Masterbation is a build up, it's a temporary fix for what you really crave. Hell, unless you working on your delay techniques.

I have this friend that is very religious, She is a freak actually. I know she rubs herself because out of our recent conversations she went into like know where to be found mode. Then about a year later she surfaces, after our late night conversations on still being single (Her) not me, she was talking about her small toy. I was like this is more than I need to know... Anyways the conversation rolled into, I asked her how many times a day/night... and she mentioned about 3 times in a day. I found myself not needing intercourse sex, I didn't really lie, but, she wanted to know If I did, I was like Duh~!I told her the same, ( I told her what I said above ) even though I was getting a bonner as I was talking to her about it & told her. She said gross! I told her it was just a natural thing, and funny after we talked she looked down to see and smiled. I was like OMG, you did not! I can't believe you.

Anyways, If you can find a friend ( opposite sex if your strait ) and have these conversations, you might be weened of the bad habit. The you would have someone you can confide in and talk to. And NO you don't have to go to Church, you can meet someone similar, but the opposite sex. (if your strait)

If your gay, I'm not to familar with Men to Men relationships and have really nothing to compare to, its just never been my cup of tea.

As for me, I've lost my_Girl_Friends that i've been close to while I was in California and resorted back to Parlors and searching for someone who is compatable in the meantime. I work my ass off so I don't have much time to do anything else.

[Member #4186]

Girl Goes For Bad Boy, Shuns Sensitive Shy Type

film at 11...

[Member #5805]

This is the first time I've seen this thread. Isn't it kind of redundant on this site?

[One Wing Low]

like my stomach is addicted to food...


This is the first time I've seen this thread. Isn't it kind of redundant on this site?

[Member #4186]

Hey now! Be nice ... :) ...

I think this thread has been quite appropriate for this website. There are some of us very unhappy about the way that certain types of sexual behaviors become obsessive -- trolling for SWs, for example, even though you can't afford the money; or sneaking out from work just to meet an escort and losing your job because you're not at your desk; or using work computers for porn even though you KNOW you shouldn't and you're likely to get caught at it. It's a very real problem for a lot of dudes.

Because there's a supportive atmosphere of men who don't FROWN upon sexual activity, the support here is quite useful for people who want to change their (paid or unpaid) sexual actions from problematic ones to non-problematic ones, and for people who just want to make sure their actions are or are not problematic in the first place.

If you go elsewhere on the internet to discuss possible sexual addiction, you end up on danged Christian fundamentalist websites (and similar) where they tell you that abstinence, total cold-turkey, is your only solution. Or where they tell you to pray more. Or where they tell you to join a monastery. Those places aren't helpful, because they ignore the reality that NORMAL adult human males need and want sex and should have access to it. They're in denial of reality. Even if they do provide a cure (which is questionable), it kills the patient.

And anyway, nobody is writing in here about how OTHER people need to change their behaviors. We aren't saying, "You dudes who use USASexGuide are bad people who are sexually addicted." We're saying, that WE want to change OUR OWN behaviors. There's no judgment of others implied in this thread. The petitioners here are petitioning about themselves, not trying to impose unwanted moral standards on others from the outside.

You should be doing the same. :)

[WebDog]

Hey now! Be nice ... :) ...
I think this thread has been quite appropriate for this website. There are some of us very unhappy about the way that certain types of sexual behaviors become obsessive -- trolling for SWs, for example, even though you can't afford the money; or sneaking out from work just to meet an escort and losing your job because you're not at your desk; or using work computers for porn even though you KNOW you shouldn't and you're likely to get caught at it. It's a very real problem for a lot of dudes.

Because there's a supportive atmosphere of men who don't FROWN upon sexual activity, the support here is quite useful for people who want to change their (paid or unpaid) sexual actions from problematic ones to non-problematic ones, and for people who just want to make sure their actions are or are not problematic in the first place.

If you go elsewhere on the internet to discuss possible sexual addiction, you end up on danged Christian fundamentalist websites (and similar) where they tell you that abstinence, total cold-turkey, is your only solution. Or where they tell you to pray more. Or where they tell you to join a monastery. Those places aren't helpful, because they ignore the reality that NORMAL adult human males need and want sex and should have access to it. They're in denial of reality. Even if they do provide a cure (which is questionable), it kills the patient.

And anyway, nobody is writing in here about how OTHER people need to change their behaviors. We aren't saying, "You dudes who use USASexGuide are bad people who are sexually addicted." We're saying, that WE want to change OUR OWN behaviors. There's no judgment of others implied in this thread. The petitioners here are petitioning about themselves, not trying to impose unwanted moral standards on others from the outside.

You should be doing the same. :)

Very well said. I had more than one intervention through this board which has caused me to rethink things. As a result I am not risking my family, career and all worldly possessions over a blowjob. I still pursue "the hobby" but I am able to keep things in better perspective. This thread has been helpful. So has the intervention of others on the board.

FWIW, as an aside, I had a friend go through high-end rehab place for Oxy addiction following a really nasty accident and related surgeries (was in a huge amount of pain and slid into Oxy addition without ever realizing it). Anywho, he was a this place where every client/patient was very affluent, and about 25 out of 30 were there for sexual addition -- including some of the women. I have never met a woman who had to pay someone so she would stop having sex, but sexual addiction is real issue which can be hugely destructive, but can also be kept in control in my opinion.

[Orlando J]

Well said Book Guy. I have this nerdy, geeky whatever you wanna call it inside me. That's why I relate to what you say. I might argue but at the end we all have a percentage of nerdness, open-minded, shy, bold, a personal attribute and its opposite ... etc.
Girls addict J



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If you go elsewhere on the internet to discuss possible sexual addiction, you end up on danged Christian fundamentalist websites (and similar) where they tell you that abstinence, total cold-turkey, is your only solution. Or where they tell you to pray more. Or where they tell you to join a monastery. Those places aren't helpful, because they ignore the reality that NORMAL adult human males need and want sex and should have access to it. They're in denial of reality. Even if they do provide a cure (which is questionable), it kills the patient.
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[Snake27]

I am dealing with a problem that I can't seem to get rid of. I have been married to my wife for 9 years, mostly monogomus .....

Anyway, I have one particular dancer that I wake up thinking about and go to bed thinking about for the past year and a half....

Has anyone had a similiar problem and was there a way to quit being so screwed up?
I had a similar problem. First of all let me say I've been "dating" pros for about 20 years, usually when I travel. I always just considered it mindless fun, i.e. I didn't think too much about it. But about 2.5 years ago I met this apparently semi-pro girl in a bar, and for some reason I got hooked on her. It was totally unexpected; there was something that clicked between us -- or that's how I perceived it. She picked up on my feelings for her and exploited them to the max; I've never given one girl so much $$ and gifts... it's embarassing. This went on for about a year.

Finally, however, I came to my senses. I think that my noticing her discover CL advertising did it for me. I know it's bizarre, but I was actually jealous. So I decided this was madness and went cold turky from her, and back to my normal low-rate mindless fun. I was very disciplined about avoiding her, but over the subsequent months she kept calling me or text messaging me about twice a month, always sentimental, saying how much she missed me, etc..... She even text messaged me on Christmas day ! Finally after months of resisting I had a brief relapse in early April, and all the powerful feelings I had came rushing back. But I knew it was poison, so once again I quit.

At the moment I'm avoiding her and she's still trying to lure me back. As far as I know, she doesn't walk the streets, and I think she doesn't advertise very often. It looks like she has a talent for engendering customer loyalty. Oh, and don't PM me for contact info (lol).

BTW, I am happily married. I realize this doesn't make much sense.

[Member #4186]

Makes plenty of sense. We all deal with the demon in one form or another. I personally haven't ever had the type of fascination for ONE PARTICULAR GIRL the way you describe.

My issues are more, about wanting intimacy and knowing I'm not getting it from pros, but still going to them for intimacy. I think somewhere in my head is the knowledge that, if I were to do certain things in my civilian non-pro social life differently (including, but not limited to, developing a social network, learning to respect women, not being intimidated by beautiful women in the civilian world, asking out people, being proactive about trying to meet attractive women, etc.), then I "wouldn't need" professional services. I have this theory, but I don't know if it's true. And since I never really accomplish the act of doing the things which I know that I ought to do, I never really have a chance to find out if the theory is actually true in practice. Mongering is just too easy a fix. Leaves me feeling empty, but it's still the path of least resistance.

I've had girlfriends (never been married) who were pretty much "ideal" by a lot of objective criteria. But I was never "hooked" to them the way you describe. I suspect that part of what makes these "special pros" so special to you, is that they're partly unavailable. You know you can't have them day-in and day-out, you know that you have to leave town, or at least that the one-hour appointment time has to end soon. You'll never see them without make-up, or in the morning, or on the rag. And you're on YOUR "best behavior" for them, too. No wonder they're so enticing!

[Snake27]

Don't take this the wrong way, Book Guy, because you seem like a worthwhile guy and the question could apply to several people on the forum -- including me. The quesion : Have you ever considered professional counseling ? For me it would be humiliating to lay out all my issues to a psychiatrist or group therapy session, so I just try to control myself the best I can. This section of the forum helps a little. Not a lot but a little.

[Orlando J]

It's hard to express myself. I'm looking for something but what is that thing? I do not know.
I loved and thought I was loved. I tried my best not to love a working girl but could not. The problem is not in things we control. If we control ourselves we won't be sexual addicts. I looked for sex addicts groups in Orlando and to be frank my intentions were totally contradictory. I wanted to control it and also have more sex. As I started I am looking for something but I do not know what it is?
Things that I know:
-I know that for me, all I really want is a hot girlfriend. But I keep on ending up with average or below-average girlfriends, or no girlfriend at all, or (worse) a girlfriend that doesn't tempt me enough.
-I have friends mostly boys and the few girls are not hot enough. The girls I know have ugly girl-friends and if they have a girl that's passable They try to keep them away from me. I think they are jealous and do not want me to get to know their beautiful girls.
-My friends fail to realize that sex is a need but they want a hot beautiful girl to love them. We are being oppressed and then being blamed as the bad guy. By making what we need illegal and just out of reach, it keeps us spending our money making Vice into BIG BUSINESS. Sex is a need. Just like any other bodily function. Both physically and mentally. I believe you own your body as long as you are a responsible mature adult you want to smoke fine, you want to drink fine, you love hoes fine as long as you do not hurt others. Your freedom ends where your neighbor's begins. I think prostitution even drugs should be legal but not in public.
-I know I prefer easy women and I am not justifying but they're better for your pocket and brain. The problem is that modern women are prostitutes who do not deliver the goods. Teasers are never pleasers; they greedily accept presents to seal a contract and then break it. The big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less.
- I know that I want the advantages of No Strings Attached (NSA) relation and those of a real love. I want a girl to love me be with me and for me only. A friends with benefits relation is a good one but how can I prevent myself from getting emotionally attached. It's impossible to have it all. You can not eat the cake and have it.
-I know I want sex but without paying for it directly or indirectly. I want to be DESIRED by those hot women. Another impossible dream.
-I know I prefer countries that do not have the legal repressive issues as in the U.S. ads are usually honest, prices quoted are real - not the U.S. rip offs and scams. Honest, full service, safe sex (sexwork) should be the accepted norm. In general prices are far lower than in the U.S. since they don't have to include the large legal risk premium. Also there are more providers, choosing sexwork for the right reasons, since there is not the legal risk.

[WebDog]

I had a similar problem. First of all let me say I've been "dating" pros for about 20 years, usually when I travel. I always just considered it mindless fun, i.e. I didn't think too much about it. But about 2.5 years ago I met this apparently semi-pro girl in a bar, and for some reason I got hooked on her. It was totally unexpected; there was something that clicked between us -- or that's how I perceived it. She picked up on my feelings for her and exploited them to the max; I've never given one girl so much $$ and gifts... it's embarassing. This went on for about a year.

Finally, however, I came to my senses. I think that my noticing her discover CL advertising did it for me. I know it's bizarre, but I was actually jealous. So I decided this was madness and went cold turky from her, and back to my normal low-rate mindless fun. I was very disciplined about avoiding her, but over the subsequent months she kept calling me or text messaging me about twice a month, always sentimental, saying how much she missed me, etc..... She even text messaged me on Christmas day ! Finally after months of resisting I had a brief relapse in early April, and all the powerful feelings I had came rushing back. But I knew it was poison, so once again I quit.

At the moment I'm avoiding her and she's still trying to lure me back. As far as I know, she doesn't walk the streets, and I think she doesn't advertise very often. It looks like she has a talent for engendering customer loyalty. Oh, and don't PM me for contact info (lol).

BTW, I am happily married. I realize this doesn't make much sense.
I won't get into the psycho-babble about why you've haven't severed the ties by changing phone #'s -- but I would strongly suggest you do that. You've already recognized her for what she, so it will never be "right" again. Now it is just the downside of an addiction. You need to make it impossible for her to reach you.

[Member #4186]

OrlandoJ only got one thing wrong: he thinks he's not good at expressing himself! He took all the words right out of my mouth. I concur. I also agree with the advice immediately following. But that's a different issue ...

[Az Dude]

I thought this advice was spot on!

http://*******.com/35svk5



Salon.com Ask Cary Column
------------------------------
I'm married with kids -- and in love with a prostitute

By Cary Tennis
Page 1

December 2, 2005 | Dear Cary,

I am going through what is a classic midlife crisis with a bit of a twist. I'm in my early 40s and have a great wife and two great young kids, all of whom I love dearly. I've been with my wife for over 20 years. Everyone tells me how lucky I am to have the perfect marriage. But, of course, I don't feel so lucky. Instead I feel burdened, trapped by the overwhelming obligations of family and of keeping up appearances. The way I've tried to deal with these feelings is by seeing prostitutes.

About eight months ago, I met and paid for the woman of my dreams. She's beautiful, a sexual dynamo, smart, funny and sweet. She's not a typical prostitute; she's more like the girl next door who wants to get paid for her great looks and abundant sexual talents.

I soon went from being her client to being her friend and confidant. Her presence in my life does two things for me. First I get to feel those incredibly strong emotions that I haven't felt in years about my wife (lust and longing), and more important, I feel so free during the few hours a month I get to see her. Not only do we explore sexual fantasies that would be completely out of bounds with my wife, but more important, I can completely relax around her and joke around and talk frankly, and not have to worry about things like who's picking up whom from school.

Of course, I know that this whole thing is incredibly stupid and immature, but I can't figure out how to unring the bell and go back to a life without this woman. Do you think it will be possible to not see her and forget about the pleasure, love and passion that we had? I've tried for a few weeks at a time, but I've always felt the need to see her again -- the urge for release, both literally and metaphorically, was too strong. I have a hard time imagining life without her, but at the same time, she could never be a part of my "real" life -- I have too much invested in my marriage and family to break it up.

So the question boils down to this: How do I give up sexual (and emotional) nirvana for the sake of my family?

Lost in L.A.

Dear Lost in L.A.,

Imagine this: In 15 or 20 years, when the kids are out of the house and you and your wife are adjusting to a new life in which the focus is less on the daily grind and more on gauzier, more philosophical questions, when you're both less easily shocked by the rank perfidy and incompetence of man, when you have faced some of the early questions of mortality and senescence and have learned not to be thrown too hard by the occasional sucker punch, you sit down over coffee and tell her about an episode in your married life that you'd kept secret until now, an episode a long time ago that almost brought everything crashing down.

There's no telling how she might respond. She might deck you. She might walk out and not come back. But imagine if she were to tell you, much to your surprise, that she had known all along, if not the details, at least the rough outline, and that by saying nothing she had knowingly protected you from the breakup that she could easily and quite innocently have precipitated had she chosen to confront you and demand all the sordid details. She might reveal that she had thought long and hard about what to do and had decided to continue with marriage and motherhood, betting that you would eventually resolve this devastating personal crisis on your own and come back to her.

Such a future is certainly not guaranteed. But it is only even possible if you can find a way to end this unconscionable indulgence and put it behind you. Even if you do everything right, things have a way of going wrong. But consider the alternative. Imagine where you will be in 15 or 20 years if you blithely continue along this path and are discovered in flagrante delicto, or, what might seem more honorable but could in a practical sense be worse, if you decide to come clean about this and throw yourself at your wife's mercy.

My bet is that you then go through an ugly divorce. And 15 or 20 years in the future my guess is that the kids have still never forgiven you for destroying the marriage; they have never been able to understand how their father could have hurt their mother so, could have done such a stupid, selfish thing, could have, basically, destroyed his own life and theirs. The affair and divorce became the pivotal trauma of all your lives. You never really get over the loss, never again really feel whole and untroubled. Nor perhaps do you ever really get over the rejection by your "girlfriend" who, pleasure being business, must regretfully decline your proposed promotion from paying client to permanent lover.

No matter what your wife would do if told 15 or 20 years later, the news couldn't possible be as tangibly disruptive to her life then as it would be now, when its revelation would threaten everything she has -- her marriage, her children, her self-esteem, her identity, her trust in others. While your letter mainly spells out your own concerns about the effect all this might have on you, it is the effect on your wife that must determine your course of action.

So, for your wife's sake, I think your best course of action is to end this affair immediately, put it behind you and never say a word about it.

There are problems with ending it and keeping it a secret, of course. Even if you're capable of doing it -- and we'll get to how in a minute -- some might argue that as an adult with free will she deserves to know the truth so she can choose whether to stay with you. Others might argue that the psychological damage done by keeping this secret would be greater than the damage done by revealing it. Some might say that a relationship based on less than complete disclosure is morally or psychologically inferior to one that includes full disclosure, and that it's your duty to be forthcoming, whatever the practical effect.

But in weighing the known ill effects of revealing this affrontery -- the probability of divorce and ignominy -- against the hypothetical evil of keeping it concealed, I find in favor of the perhaps impaired but still functioning relationship. That is, I sentence you to live in your own private hell instead of dragging everyone else into it.

So, as you so astutely observe, what this all boils down to is that you need to give up this sexual nirvana and put this whole episode quietly behind you. The question is how?

I would submit that you replace this sexual nirvana with a more compelling vision: the hero's quest to protect those he loves from the effects of his own tragic weaknesses. That is, you undergo a transformation of your fundamental orientation toward the world from one that is self-centered and narcissistic to one that is quest-centered and classically heroic. You move from a hedonistic extended adolescence in which you feel entitled to pleasures that threaten your marriage, to an adult role in which protecting your wife and children from your own imperfect character is your life's guiding principle.

But what's the fun in that? you ask. Well, frankly, it isn't much about fun. It's about right living. But there is something in it for you: self-worth, and the secret pride of knowing that you have done the best for others whether they know it or not. It's the kind of thing you can take to the grave with you and die happily. If lived with sufficient vividness, this sort of renunciatory role can have an almost erotic allure -- like the priesthood. OK, so maybe I exaggerate a little. But my basic take on it is that your only salvation from this god-awful mess is to pass into a new stage of manhood in which sacrifice and not pleasure is the goal.

Colloquially, this is known as "being a man," or "stepping up" or "doing the right thing" -- dealing with this quietly, on your own or more likely with the help of some confidential aide such as a spiritual counselor, 12-step sponsor or psychotherapist.

Again (and again and again) I'm not saying I think keeping secrets from your wife is a good idea. It's a terrible idea. I'm just saying that confessing to her that you've fallen in love with a prostitute is an even worse idea.

You won't have as good a marriage as you could have had if you had never allowed this situation with the prostitute to come up. But that's tough. Something bad has happened. It's your fault. Somebody has to take the fall. That person is you. You take the fall for the good of your wife and your kids. You shut up and be unhappy and uncomfortable for a while. That's a small price to pay, I'd think, to protect the lives of your wife and children.

[Snake27]

Thanks for sharing the article, but it's a lot of words to read for so little practical advice. The only advice I could see was to seek help from a "spiritual counselor, 12-step sponsor or psychotherapist." Apart from that, we're advised to keep it a secret from the wife and quit as soon as possible. But if the man loves his wife he already knows what is expected of him to be "classically heroic", as they put it. There is no analysis of what is wrong morally. I have my own theories about that; I'm just criticizing the article.

[Member #4186]

I think the most important thing to say about that Salon.com article is ...

THAT IT ISN'T ABOUT SEXUAL ADDICTION AT ALL ...

I don't REALLY mind the fact that the subject borders on this thread, because it has to do with "not wanting" to see a prostitute in some manner or other. But I'm concerned that the Salon.com advice might get directed at problem A (sexual addiction, prostitute addiction) when in fact it's really intended for problem B (man cheating on wife, potential disaster in marriage) and probably isn't really very germane to either and would only ever solve problem C (people bored at home reading internet boards).

[Orlando J]

I said this before I have this nerdy, geeky whatever you wanna call it inside me. That's why I relate to what Book Guy says.
(http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=524939&postcount=131). I read before you have control not to get emotionally involved. My problems stem from wanting contradictory things. That's why I relate with others who gets emotionally attached and deep down I do not want a relation with a biatch. Our worlds cannot meet, they can only collide.
From experiences; I know these girls do not give a flying f&ck about me. All we are to them is a source of money, food...etc. I was told "I'm different than all the other guys out there. Your a nice guy. You treat me so good." She took me to meet her mom and family. We went shopping on several occasions. Still if forced to make a choice between drugs and you, you will lose evenif she says and tries otherwise.
I am still confused. There is still something wrong (http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=526951&postcount=135) with me!

J the Girls addict


OrlandoJ only got one thing wrong: he thinks he's not good at expressing himself! He took all the words right out of my mouth. I concur. I also agree with the advice immediately following. But that's a different issue ...

[Benchseats Rock]

I said this before I have this nerdy, geeky whatever you wanna call it inside me. That's why I relate to what you say.
(http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=524939&postcount=131)
I am still confused. There is still something wrong (http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=526951&postcount=135) with me!

J the Girls addict


It seems to me that the only thing about your comment that has anything to do with sexual addiction is that it is posted in a the sexual addiction forum. That being said, I am not saying that you don't have a sexual addiction problem, but as you say that you do have problems expressing yourself and maybe that is why it's not immediately apparent to me, but from everything you're saying, it seems to me that you are barking up the wrong tree as far as diagnosis and treatment. You may do well to consult with a Psychiatrist or another mental health professional and see if you fit the criteria for Depression/Major Depression. It is often easier to notice the sexual effects that Depression can cause, and when combined with compulsive behavior, which may or may not be a separate though complimentary condition, it can be easy to confuse the apparent symptomatology with Sexual Addiction. More often than not, this is actually the case, if you or anyone reading this feel more comfortable talking about this over PM or email I am more than happy to oblige.

- Bench

[Orlando J]

I do not know BSR if I know I won't be confused. My problems stem from wanting contradictory things. I know or at least I think I know depression symptoms and I believe I am not depressed.
J girls addict
I have enjoyed our side talks before.


It seems to me that the only thing about your comment that has anything to do with sexual addiction is that it is posted in a the sexual addiction forum. That being said, I am not saying that you don't have a sexual addiction problem, but as you say that you do have problems expressing yourself and maybe that is why it's not immediately apparent to me, but from everything you're saying, it seems to me that you are barking up the wrong tree as far as diagnosis and treatment. You may do well to consult with a Psychiatrist or another mental health professional and see if you fit the criteria for Depression/Major Depression. It is often easier to notice the sexual effects that Depression can cause, and when combined with compulsive behavior, which may or may not be a separate though complimentary condition, it can be easy to confuse the apparent symptomatology with Sexual Addiction. More often than not, this is actually the case, if you or anyone reading this feel more comfortable talking about this over PM or email I am more than happy to oblige.

- Bench

[Member #4186]

The symptoms of depression are varied, and are not necessarily, simply, the old and familiar "I feel down, sad, a bit tired ...". Some forms of depression, even, might make you hyperactive, or extremely reactive and therefore quick to anger and to (ill-considered?) sexual activity, for example. Other forms of depression don't lead to the old emotional feeling of "down," but do lead to a sense of loneliness and disconnection.

I'm not saying that you have one of these things. I'm just saying, you shouldn't be too quick to judge that you aren't depressed, if you don't really know what all the real symptoms are. Diagnosis is always best left up to a professional. The internet isn't the place to get medical advice.

[AmIaCriminal2]

Mine is drinking in tittie bars. To help keep a Stripper from another club off of my mind. It doesn't work, but at least I ain't lonely. At least not for long. However avoiding those damn Field Sobriety Tests are tricky. Which leaves me one beer per hour with a limit of three per night. Just my legal tolerance level. I try various business ventures, yard work, shopping, hanging out with my wife, but I can't get this damn Stripper out of my head. I know if I could just screw a chick that looks like her I could probalby quit fixating on her. It's like one of those annoying songs stuck in my mind that I can't quit hearing in my head. Kind of sucks, but when I see her I am walking on clouds for months and gets my mind off of any real problems like how am I going to pay my mortgage this month and how do I replace accounts that baled on me. I sure had a wonderful time last year with this hobby, but when I lost my main business accounts I sure wish I had saved the money I spent on my "dreams". But what is better, having been a social loser with 3 times in my life where I was freely able to enjoy being a sex addict for 6 mth periods and being able to console my feelings of rejection with fond memories and looking hopefully to future times of an easier life, or to have a small savings and be totally miserable and no hope or knowledge of what it is like to have a healthy sex life?

[Member #4186]

AmI: I totally understand what you're saying. Indeed, what IS better, to live a sober and bored life and have a savings account with a buncha numbers you can look at on a sheet of paper and say "Wow, lots of 6s and 9s!" or to have a real 69? :)

Seriously, if you have a wife, then you have had at some point in your life SOME kind of normal social life. How did you meet her? What kinds of activities did you and your social group do, before you were married? What about before you learned about how you could go to a strip club? Or, failing that, what did you do before you met THE ONE all-time-favorite stripper you're talking about?

I know what you mean, to have a song going through your head over and over. I think the psychologists say, that this isn't a problem with MOST of our memory, it's just a problem with the "shut off valve," the part of our memory that decides, "OK, I'm DONE remembering that now." Maybe something similar happens with girls.

Another thing I know, is that the smell of people makes them very important to us. If her smell is juuuust right -- including not only her perfume and shampoo etc., but also her natural immune system and its smells -- and coincides exactly with our innate desires, then we can't get the person out of our head. Try stuffing your nose up? Just kidding ...

Well, seriously, I'm glad we can share our feelings here. Even if, so far, we haven't really mastered DOING anything about them. Yet.

[Butchcasidy]

I have to tell someone about how crazy this hobby is. I just kicked this fine 20 yr old ebony chick to the curb. When you start having relationships with these girls, you are better off retiring.

Here is my last straw. I was meeting with this youngster for about a month, low budget, great service. Then I got greedy [free pussy] and listened to her desire to leave the street life in the hood and change her ways.

I picked her up and all of her clothes in a large rubbermaid box. She was at the crib for two days and had to hit the streets. Two days later she called me an wanted to get clothes... this continued for a couple days while I told her I was not driving into the hood to drop off clothes, cell phone chargers, etc and that I was making one trip in so she needed to find a place to put her things.

She finially got me, the little head spoke loudly. After another two days at my house, she needed to make some cash to go out of town to visit her mother. I took her over to a pimps house, a broke ass pimp at that, but knew he would take her in. The next morning she calls to change clothes and wants to get her nails done. I told her I would take her to get the nails, but she would have to pay. She told me she made only $$ all night long. Then ho goes nuts, calls the pimp to take her in and starts hitting me. She gets to my house and pulls a nine inch knife on me, tells me she is going to cut me up, and to leave her alone while she packs.

When I drop her off at the pimps, she still has the knife out, she also talked the whole time with different people on her cell phone, asking them if she should cut me up.

After I dropped her off and returned home, I notice that my digital camera was stolen. After numerous calls to the pimp and the ho I finially get my camera back for $.

I think it is time to retire.

[PsyberZombie]

I have to tell someone about how crazy this hobby is.... I just kicked this fine 20 yr old ebony chick to the curb. When you start having relationships with these girls, you are better off retiring....

I think it is time to retire.

NO .... it is time to think about WHY we Mongers keep falling for these girls

Suggested reading =►

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=317920&postcount=1987

[Hizark21]

Picking up SW's is safe so long a you follow some basic rules.

You incident is just one more reason why one should not get involved with a SW. When you let a SW stay with you their problems become your problems.

SW's are flakey in general and they jump from town to town and from hotel to hotel.

[Member #4186]

I wonder, is the thing which Butchcasidy did (getting INVOLVED rather than just getting LAID) so much of a different thing from what we're recommending he "cut back" his activities to? Aren't we all a little bit "involved" with these girls? I like to know where a favorite stripper has ended up when her club has closed, or whether a girl is or isn't still turning trikcs. I don't want to hear about any of them getting beat up by a pimp. Is that "involvement" or just "human kindness," in which case, what's the difference anyway?

I also think, that dudes who are attracted to the thread about "addiction," are likely to be in the mongering game as much for "connection with another human" as for any other reason. Sure, it's necessary to get the nut finished with a hot chick, but there's just some kind of endorphin rush or something that we get when the nut with the hot chick is accomplished in a context of "we care about each other and this is exciting."

Somehow, I can't fault Butchcasidy for wanting to be involved with the girl, wanting her to "move in" and "be mine" for a little while. I see a hot-looking younger person who knows how to smile, be kind, make me happy, and I instantly think to myself, "She must be a good person. She doesn't do drugs, she's too friendly and sweet. And if she does, it's not because she's a druggie! No, it's because a person who is truly friendly and sweet deep down is actually doing something abnormal to herself for a brief period of time. Soon enough she'll get back to her normal, friendly, sweet ways."

Idiotic. But that's how the head works -- it just comes up with these preposterous conclusions. :) So you end up seeing only the good characteristics, and believing that the bad ones bear no relation to the "real" person there. But you might be seeing 99% bad, and making excuses for all 99% of it, when the only good thing going on is a teeny tiny 1% that isn't worth all the grief and risk associated with trying to resurrect it.

And anyway, is it right for us to try to resurrect someone from 1/99 and flip them over to 99/1? It's nice to think that I can "do something" for anyone in need. But can we actually CHANGE someone at all? And change them as RADICALLY as would be required?

I think "My Fair Lady" (and the Shaw play, "Pygmalion," and the eventual ancient myth on which it is all based) talks about this. But it has a happy ending, of course. Hollywood had to. More often, the girl is a lot rougher 'round the edges than having a mere Cockney accent like Eliza Doolittle. And for me at least, it's always the case that the guy (me) has a lot fewer resources of wealth, prosperity, success, stability, and lack of neediness, than Mister Higgins has in the play. We're not as high up, and she's a lot more low down, in real life, than in the drama.

[Orlando J]

I have to tell someone about how crazy this hobby is. I just kicked this fine 20 yr old ebony chick to the curb. When you start having relationships with these girls, you are better off retiring.
Easy said than done otherwise it won't be addiction.

Here is my last straw. I was meeting with this youngster for about a month, low budget, great service. Then I got greedy [free pussy] and listened to her desire to leave the street life in the hood and change her ways.
I picked her up and all of her clothes in a large rubbermaid box. She was at the crib for two days and had to hit the streets. Two days later she called me an wanted to get clothes... this continued for a couple days while I told her I was not driving into the hood to drop off clothes, cell phone chargers, etc and that I was making one trip in so she needed to find a place to put her things.
She finially got me, the little head spoke loudly. After another two days at my house, she needed to make some cash to go out of town to visit her mother. I took her over to a pimps house, a broke ass pimp at that, but knew he would take her in. The next morning she calls to change clothes and wants to get her nails done. I told her I would take her to get the nails, but she would have to pay. She told me she made only $$ all night long. Then ho goes nuts, calls the pimp to take her in and starts hitting me. She gets to my house and pulls a nine inch knife on me, tells me she is going to cut me up, and to leave her alone while she packs.
When I drop her off at the pimps, she still has the knife out, she also talked the whole time with different people on her cell phone, asking them if she should cut me up.
After I dropped her off and returned home, I notice that my digital camera was stolen. After numerous calls to the pimp and the ho I finially get my camera back for $.
I think it is time to retire.
Let us make some things clear here. I assume she wanted to hit the street to get her fix. You took her to a broke ass pimp that would take her in! So you knew that pimp.
I would not have taken the knife threats. These are some thoughts on scams and rip-offs (http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=524985&postcount=56)

PsyberZombie
It's good to hear from you bro. You make a very good point.

NO .... it is time to think about WHY we Mongers keep falling for these girls

Book Guy
A good interpretation and I can totally and always relate to what you say but it's still addiction. Evenif we know the solution we keep doing it.

[Hairypusslover]

I am a sex addict. I think of screwing a girl every two minutes. I look at on the internet, I travel to screw them, I pay them, etc.

I have figured out I was a sex addict a couple months ago when I was travelling with my five year old son. We were staying at my friends house who was out of town and while he was sleeping upstairs (when he sleeps, he is knocked out) I called a provider and we screwed downstairs on the couch. All he had to do was get up, walk downstairs and see his old man balls deep in another women. Did that stop me? Hell no!

Here in lies the problem: When I see good looking women, wether it be in the street or tv or the internet, something starts to itch and the only way to stop the itch is to pound some pussy. (sorry for the graphic language but its the only way for me to express myself) There have been times when I have been driving, see a really hot chick walking down the sidewalk and next thing I know I am calling my regular escort and within an hour I am banging her. I have walked into my local McDonalds and there are some really pretty latino women in there and that has kickstarted me! Hell, I love to workout and the gym chicks get me horny! And not just horny like, "Man, that chick is hot." No, horny like, "Man, she is hot." <breaks out the cell phone> "Hey, ____, can you meet me in an hour so I can fuck your brains out?"

Does anybody else feel this way? I cannot help myself. I have tried for a couple of months to stop to only find myself doing it again. Its like a drug addict who sees a picture of crack and has to smoke it. Now, there is not a single drug that I like doing except the feeling of blowing my load with another woman.

I need help. I need a harem to satisfy my primal urges.

[Snake27]

I need a harem to satisfy my primal urges.
A harem ? That's a wonderful idea ! Why didn't I think of that !

I guess another solution is to simply grow old and lose interest in or the ability for sex.

Other possible solutions:

1. Each time you think of sex, run to a private place and jack off. But I guess that still makes you an addict.

2. Volunteer for the army and seek duty in Greenland. There are no women in Greenland. Indeed no chance for anything sexual, although there is the danger that you'll go crazy or turn gay. But if you make it through your tour, you'll be cured. It's sort of like holding your breath to cure hiccups.

3. Manage to get thrown in jail. (See point 2.)

--------------------------
Just kidding, of course.

[Wonderlust]

Hairypusslover,

Yes, I would say you are a sex addict. I am too. If interested, I can provide you with some information. PM me and I'll get it to you.

[Gogagoga]

Hello, brothers in addiction;.),

Have you tried having a gf. I found that regular and frequent sex jst tires me out enough not to think about it all the time. Or even if I do not beilng able to do much (outa mojo). The only problem I have is, well, a commitment proble. So anything more than 3 mo tends to end quickly. Could addiction be driving commitment fear? Anyway, if you don't have the commitment issues as I do, try a gf and regular frequent sex with one person. I guess that may defeat the purpose as you are still doing it. Plus from what I hear after 3 months sex is not as frequent anymore. So maybe that is part of the issue with me. In any case I am just sharing thoughts.

[Civ2000]

Hello, brothers in addiction;.),

Have you tried having a gf. I found that regular and frequent sex jst tires me out enough not to think about it all the time. Or even if I do not beilng able to do much (outa mojo). The only problem I have is, well, a commitment proble. So anything more than 3 mo tends to end quickly. Could addiction be driving commitment fear? Anyway, if you don't have the commitment issues as I do, try a gf and regular frequent sex with one person. I guess that may defeat the purpose as you are still doing it. Plus from what I hear after 3 months sex is not as frequent anymore. So maybe that is part of the issue with me. In any case I am just sharing thoughts.

I think it's a misperception that a sex addict is just someone who needs lot's of sex. I've had girlfriends that wanted sex all the time and were very good at it, yet still cruised for SW's. There is just something very thrilling and addictive about cruising. Picking up that strange woman you've never met and getting a bj in a busy parking lot during the day or in a dark spot late at night. You know you could be robbed, arrested, catch something, get caught and yet you do it anyway. It's a total adrenaline rush. And once you get addicted to that, it's hard to be completely satisfied with normal behind closed doors sex.

[Member #4186]

Civ2000: sounds to me, like you might be interested more in the thrill and risk, than in the sex. I enjoy the thrill, too, sometimes. Especially the thrill of the hunt, finding a girl on the streets and being excited about her appearance. Different people are motivated by different aspects of the experience. I heard about one guy who didn't like mongering with window-girls in Amsterdam because they cost too little. It didn't "excite" him to spend only the equivalent of US$40 for a 20-minute session. But when the Euro was introduced, and the exchange rate changed such that the average price effectively rose to US$60, he was into it again. It was the "overpriced" part of it that got him off.

I notice that of all the mongering types of behaviors I engage in, the ones I enjoy most, will always allow me to assess the woman from a rather distanced point of view, before choosing to engage with her. If I get to look at her among a bunch of other women in a room, and then get my rocks off with her, then good. But if I get to look at her and she doesn't know I'm assessing her or hasn't identified me as the assessor (like, in a strip club), then that's even better. And if I get to watch her "from afar" in a manner like you'd do while cruising a street, then that's the best (as long as her looks and mannerisms do sufficiently live up to my beauty ideals), except I'd rather see her naked than clothed and I'd rather know about her mannerisms as well as her beauty. For these reasons, I find the "best" excitement for me, is at a strip club where some girls will offer back-room services. This allows me to look at the girls without being looked at back (I don't like those massage parlors where the girls come in one by one; they know that I'm assessing them), secretly. Then assess the girls' bodies, each one as she goes on stage. Then pick the one I like. Then do the deed. Internet providers, or massage parlor girls, or street walkers, all twist this ideal arrangement for me, by putting one or another thing in the wrong order. But that's JUST ME. Other guys have other fascinations.

About the suggestion for a girlfriend, to fulfill some of the sexual need. Well, that might work: I find in fact that I actually don't monger, usually, when I have a girlfriend, so you'd think it was a proven solution. I did cheat like hell on one girl, but on other girlfriends I had before her and after her I didn't. So go figger? For me, one of the major stumbling blocks to that girlfriend suggestion, is that it's so damned hard to GET a girlfriend. I go for long long years without hooking up. Women are such prissy cunts about letting me have access to their pussies.

[Aside: I've learned, perhaps, that the problem is how I "project" my expectation that they be resistant, onto them, and that if I were to interact differently with them, then my evident expectations of their "virtue" might be a little bit less prevalent. I certainly don't REALLY hope for them to be "virtuous" and therefore make me do without sex for months and months; but for some reason they get that message, on the basis of my interaction, even if I try to tell them otherwise (we're all of us always communicating in subtle ways, and just verbalizing something is not always the most heavy weight of a communication, especially not if your body language and all your behaviors betray the opposite). But learning to interact differently is easier said than done. I don't even know what I'm doing wrong, much less what to do to change it. I just try to continue to muddle through, and it isn't getting me girlfriends regularly. Kind of like, "Just eat cake, if you don't have bread." Well, I WOULD, if I could GET cake ...]

Anyway, "just get a girlfriend" also doesn't resolve the issue, of wanting VARIETY. If I could actually have a set of "relationships" that fulfilled my mongering need, I guess they would be with a new woman about twice a week. Go to the bar on Wednesday, meet my "girlfriend," have sex. Go to the bar on Saturday, meet my new "girlfriend," have sex. Etc. Problem with this is, sex is better if the woman is trying to get you off. Sex with a woman you meet in a bar, is sex with a woman who is trying to get HERSELF off. I just HATE the fact that they don't know their way around my dick. I haven't ever had sex in a private booth in a strip club, and FAILED to get off. The girls look hot, they're dolled up like tramps, and they work like hell to make me cum. And they KNOW HOW to make me cum.

But if I meet a "civilian" and "date" her in real life, then (a) our sexual activity is likely to be with her being rather resistant to it, instead of proactively seeking it, and (b) she won't know what she's doing. For example, if she offers to give me a blowjob, it will be a very bad one, perhaps with a lot of pain, and certainly without any ball-licking until I tell her to ball-lick. At which point she'll lick twice, then stop and go back to her standard pump-pump-pump uninspired action. Why can't "normal" chicks follow instruction? They seem to all think that rapid-fire hard-core pump-pump-pump is the only thing I would want. If I say, "Slow down," she slows down ... FOR TWO STROKES. And then goes back to fast. If I say, "Please don't suck like that, it hurts like hell," she stops sucking like that ... FOR TEN SECONDS. And then goes back to hurting me by sucking like that. What is WITH that crap? "Can't follow directions." That's something we used to use as a joke, to talk about the little kids in the playground who just were unclear on the concept. "Can't follow directions. Does not play well with others. Has some issues with sharing. Must work on hygiene." Etc. :P

Yeah, come right down to it, one thing I want is a chick with skill. Manual dexterity, tongue action, general attitude, that all combines into, "Book Guy orgasms quickly if he chooses to." I've NEVER experienced even 5% of a professional's skills, in a civilian girlfriend. I'd grade them all as solid Fs, in both what they come to the relationship with, and what they bother to try out when I ask them. Weird, no?

[Trick Williams]

I think it's a misperception that a sex addict is just someone who needs lot's of sex. I've had girlfriends that wanted sex all the time and were very good at it, yet still cruised for SW's. There is just something very thrilling and addictive about cruising. Picking up that strange woman you've never met and getting a bj in a busy parking lot during the day or in a dark spot late at night. You know you could be robbed, arrested, catch something, get caught and yet you do it anyway. It's a total adrenaline rush. And once you get addicted to that, it's hard to be completely satisfied with normal behind closed doors sex.

I agree 100%.

[WebDog]

Hello, brothers in addiction;.),
Have you tried having a gf. I found that regular and frequent sex jst tires me out enough not to think about it all the time. Or even if I do not beilng able to do much (outa mojo). The only problem I have is, well, a commitment proble. So anything more than 3 mo tends to end quickly. Could addiction be driving commitment fear? Anyway, if you don't have the commitment issues as I do, try a gf and regular frequent sex with one person. I guess that may defeat the purpose as you are still doing it. Plus from what I hear after 3 months sex is not as frequent anymore. So maybe that is part of the issue with me. In any case I am just sharing thoughts.Sure, and if you get married, sex every 3 months will seem like a 2nd honeymoon.

[WebDog]

I think it's a misperception that a sex addict is just someone who needs lot's of sex. I've had girlfriends that wanted sex all the time and were very good at it, yet still cruised for SW's. There is just something very thrilling and addictive about cruising. Picking up that strange woman you've never met and getting a bj in a busy parking lot during the day or in a dark spot late at night. You know you could be robbed, arrested, catch something, get caught and yet you do it anyway. It's a total adrenaline rush. And once you get addicted to that, it's hard to be completely satisfied with normal behind closed doors sex.that sums it up pretty well. Although it sounds a little more glamorous the way you describe it.

[Benchseats Rock]

Try a gf and regular frequent sex with one person. I guess that may defeat the purpose as you are still doing it. Plus from what I hear after 3 months sex is not as frequent anymore.

Yeah... that doesn't work. At least not for me. I'm in a very long term relationship - and after more than a few years we're still getting it on right around three times a week and it's not enough. Not nearly enough. Not even close.

[Member #4186]

Yeah... that doesn't work. At least not for me. I'm in a very long term relationship - and after more than a few years we're still getting it on right around three times a week and it's not enough. Not nearly enough. Not even close.

Benchseats: is it possible that the rate of sexual activity in your relationship with your "civilian" long-term girlfriend is something that is created as much by your own perceptions, expectations, hints, and other behaviors, as it is by her? I mean, can't it be that she's misreading you and "going along with" the status quo on a tacit female assumption that the male is "supposed" to create the sexual opportunities? I found, once with one girlfriend, that it really was all about me sending some kind of signal that she felt like she would seem "slutty" if she was pro-active about sex. Maybe you can change the signals and work with her to create more opportunities for activity?

Now, I know this doesn't alleviate a lot of related problems: the need for variety, or the thrill and excitement of the "hunt and chase" and risk of getting caught, that street-walkers provide. But I heard about some real "manly men" (you know, corporate lawyer make-no-apologies types) who basically only ever had girlfriends who were "willing to service" them 100% of the time, or else they broke up and got a better girlfriend. That would kind of be my goal, if I DID have a girlfriend. If I want a blowjob, what kind of skin is it off HER back to give me one? I should get it whenever, wherever; and I don't really even see how that's sexist or wrong even in the mind of the most stridently bitchy anti-masculinist femi-nazi.

[Misfit]

A "Sex addict" is such a strong word, I consider myself a hobbyist. In search for the ultimate thrill of pay for pleasure. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that.

Misfit

[Member #4186]

Misfit:

If you're happy with your own actions, and do not feel that they impinge on your sense of well-being or on your capacity to function productively and positively in the other aspects of your life, then you're not an addict, just a participant.

Same as with drinking or any other potentially deleterious action. People who drink socially, enjoy doing it, call it off when it's responsible to call it off, make sure that their drinking experiences have little or no bearing on their interpersonal relationships and job performance, are not alcoholics, pretty much no matter HOW big an amount of drinking they do. But people who can't control it because it controls them? They're alcoholics even if it only an ounce of liquor passes their lips and then something bad happens.

The question isn't one of how much you do or how stringent the word is. It's about whether or not the rest of your life can be in order along with your mongering / hobbying activities. Different people have different responses.

BG




A "Sex addict" is such a strong word, I consider myself a hobbyist. In search for the ultimate thrill of pay for pleasure. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that.

Misfit

[Misfit]

I believe the rest of my life is in fact in order along with my mongering / hobbying activities. From time to time I may take a trip out on my lunch break from my work in search for some PFP (Pay-For-Play). But I always get my ass back to work on time. You have to find a balance between having fun & not just living a dull & boring life. Just one mongers opinion.

Misfit

[Civ2000]

A "Sex addict" is such a strong word, I consider myself a hobbyist. In search for the ultimate thrill of pay for pleasure. I mean not that there's anything wrong with that.

Misfit

It's just interesting that you felt the need (out of 100's of thousands of hobbiest's on this board) to explain to us that you're a hobbiest and not a sex addict.

[Misfit]

It's just interesting that you felt the need (out of 100's of thousands of hobbiest's on this board) to explain to us that you're a hobbiest and not a sex addict.


In my opinion, I just stated a fact is all. Well that & boosting up the count a bit under my name. But hey don't read into it too much. But I believe Book Guy explained it best by describing the differences between an addict & just a participant. That just re-enforced my previous statement in my particular situation.

Misfit

[LoveLOS]

My 1200th post. Normally the even numbers are reserved for trip reports. 1199 was a trip report on one of the threads that I tend to monopolize because nobody else is reporting anything...

I felt this was a good time to get that off my chest in case anyone has any doubts that I am a sick man.

My last 60 days has been pretty good:
2 SW
4 Bar girls
6 AMP girls
7 escort/CL girls
and my S.O.

Variety is the spice of life. Glad to get that out and over with so I can find some more money in case I hook up this weekend with the girl coming thru the 'burg...

LoveLOS

[Misfit]

LoveLOS, dude congrats on your 1200th post.

Misfit

[Milo Milo]

Some recovery links that might be helpful. Take what you like and leave the rest.

www.saa-recovery.org

www.slaa.org

www.sexhelp.com

[Wonderlust]

I do consider myself a sex addict, or love addict would be a more accurate description. I have been successful in eliminating most of my compulsions concerning sex but it's taken a lot of work.

I can't and won't speak of who may or may not be addicted to sex or love but I realized I was and finally took steps to control it. There are several sites that can help you determine your own personal addiction (or lack of) I have enjoyed a great deal of private success but still have some mind sets to change. I found recoverynation.com useful as well as going to SAA meetings. I never would have believed anyone could be a sex addict until it was rubbed in my face.

I am for the most part happy and would be glad to offer anyone assistance. Simply PM me. I don't check back here often but will get your message.

[Member #5605]

The problem with "12-Step" based "sexaholic anonymous" groups, is that they are all about PROMOTING A DAMNED "spirituality"/religious experience, NOT about SOLVING THE PERSON'S PROBLEM!

You are better off "leaving it all!" Seek a therapist who actually KNOWS what the hell they are doing!


Some recovery links that might be helpful. Take what you like and leave the rest.

www.saa-recovery.org

www.slaa.org

www.sexhelp.com

[Gorilla69]

My 1200th post. Normally the even numbers are reserved for trip reports. 1199 was a trip report on one of the threads that I tend to monopolize because nobody else is reporting anything...

I felt this was a good time to get that off my chest in case anyone has any doubts that I am a sick man.

My last 60 days has been pretty good:
2 SW
4 Bar girls
6 AMP girls
7 escort/CL girls
and my S.O.

Variety is the spice of life. Glad to get that out and over with so I can find some more money in case I hook up this weekend with the girl coming thru the 'burg...

LoveLOS

I totally understand it. As a geographic bachelor who will see his wife once a month for a few days to a week at a time, I need more. I have 2 escorts/CL girls who I see and enjoy a great deal. They are attractive, fun to be with and not really all that expensive. My wife, when we are together, provides well. Hell, last time I came home a zombie....screwed me all weekend, but less than a week later I had to have some strange. What the hell is that?

Sex is a release for me and when I don't have it I get weird and grouchy. OK, I'm weird most of the time, but the grouchy part is true. In fact, I enjoy the sex with the other women, who both have multiple O's with me and like my company, treat me well and neither are clock watchers.

Addiction may be a strong term, but it is the only word I have for it. It could be worse!! I could be an alcoholic, drug addict or gambler.

And the only thing that will cure me is death itself.

[Gorilla69]

Yeah, come right down to it, one thing I want is a chick with skill. Manual dexterity, tongue action, general attitude, that all combines into, "Book Guy orgasms quickly if he chooses to." I've NEVER experienced even 5% of a professional's skills, in a civilian girlfriend. I'd grade them all as solid Fs, in both what they come to the relationship with, and what they bother to try out when I ask them. Weird, no?

I will brag here: when my old lady want to suck my cock she can suck like an experienced streetwalker. I have no idea where she learned it, but she can. She likes it most of the time and since we are only seeing each other occasionally she likes it more. She does not swallow now, but used to. She is trying to relearn that skill. Practice will make perfect. Most civilian woman simply do not like doing it... unless you are talking about the BBW's on Craig's list looking to get off.

[Civ2000]

The problem with "12-Step" based "sexaholic anonymous" groups, is that they are all about PROMOTING A DAMNED "spirituality"/religious experience, NOT about SOLVING THE PERSON'S PROBLEM!

You are better off "leaving it all!" Seek a therapist who actually KNOWS what the hell they are doing!

That's a common misperception of the 12-step program. It is up to each person to decide what his higher power is or lack there of. The concept is that addicts generally can't quit an addiction on their own, so for many addicts the group becomes the higher power with the theory being the collective experience of 30 recovering addicts is more powerful than the singular experience of recovering alone.

The thing is, when people confront their problems with forthrightness and honesty and reveal themselves to others, they usually do have some kind of spiritual experience. Some might call that God, but I know an equal number of athiests in the program.

In fact, the 12-step programs are very good about solving the persons problem. When 12 steps are combined with therapy the addicts odds improve dramatically. Hence the reason that when you do go to see that therapist, there is usually a 9 in 10 chance that they will recommend a 12 step program in addition to the therapy.

I've been to all three programs. I don't go to the SA meetings because I find their definition of sobriety too restrictive: No sex outside of marriage including masterbation. The other two however let you create your own definition of sobriety. I highly recommend the programs.

[Member #5605]

If the "12 Steps" are somehow "not" about religion, then why do 6 out of 12 of them (50%!) mention "God" (with a capital "G"!). That is NOT a declaration of atheism! Spirituality/religion has absolutely NOTHING to do with ANY ADDICTION, PERIOD! If it did, people who are NOT "spiritual" (atheists/agnostics) would have addictions, and people who ARE "spiritual" would not, as there "spiriruality" would be enough to keep them sober/sane.
Additionally, the idea that someone "can't quit on their own" is ridiculous, as people do it all the time for ALL TYPES OF DISORDERS! After all, how can one still be allegedly "powerless" over an activity, that one has clearly STOPPED DOING? 12 Step groups are nothing more then "collectivism" that wallows in the glory days of whatever "vice" the group is based around. They perpetuate "faith-healing" over individual responsibility for ending an activity that the individual in question has worked at, or succeeded in, destroying themselves over.

As for therapists that recommend 12 step groups for "support", it is usually because of one of three reasons: 1.) they are in a damned 12-Step group themselves, and are silent about the UNETHICAL "conflict of interest" referring a client to one perpetuates, 2.) they are unaware of the overwhelming religiosity of "the Program", or 3.) they are ignorantly aware of SECULAR alternatives! The idea that someone is going to "live without sex" (unless within a matrimonial confine!) is pathetic, and inhumane. A sex drive is a NORMAL HUMAN DESIRE! It should be treated as such, as long as the adults involved are consenting. Whether a person is "addicted" to it, is not only for that individual to figure out, but also for that person to GET OUT OF, just as they got INTO IT!



That's a common misperception of the 12-step program. It is up to each person to decide what his higher power is or lack there of. The concept is that addicts generally can't quit an addiction on their own, so for many addicts the group becomes the higher power with the theory being the collective experience of 30 recovering addicts is more powerful than the singular experience of recovering alone.

The thing is, when people confront their problems with forthrightness and honesty and reveal themselves to others, they usually do have some kind of spiritual experience. Some might call that God, but I know an equal number of athiests in the program.

In fact, the 12-step programs are very good about solving the persons problem. When 12 steps are combined with therapy the addicts odds improve dramatically. Hence the reason that when you do go to see that therapist, there is usually a 9 in 10 chance that they will recommend a 12 step program in addition to the therapy.

I've been to all three programs. I don't go to the SA meetings because I find their definition of sobriety too restrictive: No sex outside of marriage including masterbation. The other two however let you create your own definition of sobriety. I highly recommend the programs.

[Baltimonger]

It's basically simple:
I walk down the 12 (or so) steps into the basement AMP at 1413 K St. in Washington, DC. I spend an hour in a one on one session with my supporter. First she blesses me with holy water and washes away my sins. I demonstrate to her the missionary work I'm into. Then we talk a lot about God and Jesus Christ. Sometimes she lets me show her my ability to speak in tongues.

I leave there a changed man, ready to face the real world. Although I know alas, I am truly powerless over my addiction.

[Member #5605]

ROTFLMAO! ;) THIS is as it should be. . . .were that level of providing only as prevalent as corner churches are! ;)



It's basically simple:
I walk down the 12 (or so) steps into the basement AMP at 1413 K St. in Washington, DC. I spend an hour in a one on one session with my supporter. First she blesses me with holy water and washes away my sins. I demonstrate to her the missionary work I'm into. Then we talk a lot about God and Jesus Christ.

I leave there a changed man, ready to face the real world. Although I know alas, I am truly powerless over my addiction.

[Civ2000]

I've got to disagree with you once again Redneck. The original founders of AA wrote that they believed their higher power to be God, yes with a capital G, but explain in great detail that this higher power can be anything the addict chooses. There is a chapter for the agnostic/athiest. I know numerous atheists who love the program and get a lot out of it. In the present day program there isn't much talk about God or reveling in the glory days of the addiction, but rather talk about concrete ways of stopping the addiction.

And it's not at all about giving up sex. It's about developing a healthy sexuality. I don't know a single person who's goal it is to give up sex. But if a guy has been arrested 3 times for picking up hookers and faces a year with his next conviction, yet still finds himself having extreme difficulty staying off the stroll, this is they type of sexual behavior this guy for example only would be trying to limit. Every other type of sex would be fair game.

There is no unethical conflict about a therapist recommending 12 steps. The therapist doesn't profit from an AA group. They don't take a collection to give a cut to the therapist that recommends their client attend. The "dollar" singlular you put in the basket merely pays for rent. About the only conflict of interest could be the fact that someone who attends 12 step meetings has a proven much greater chance of beating any addiction, including smoking, so that therapists success rate in treating clients will go up.

You're clearly someone who quickly looked at the steps or a website and made a conclusion without actually going or looking very deep. 12 steps have helped millions get out of all kinds of addictions that they had previously been unable to do so. Some people hate the idea of God so much, that as soon as they see that word, the other 99% of the message goes right out the window.

[Member #5605]

The above noted web-site, is an EXCELLENTLY researched , and OVERWHELMINGLY thorough analysis of the founders of AA, it's "Big Book" "Alcoholics Anonymous"), and every conceiveable piece of false information perpetuated by AA, and 12-Step groups. One of these is this MYTH that somehow the founders of AA believed a person's "high power" (which the 12- Steps do NOT MENTION-only a "Power Greater Then Ourselves-note the capitalizing!) could be "anything". This is misleading considering that: a.) Bill W. states specifically in the "Big Book", may you find the "one true GOD, now", and Dr. Bob, used to FORCE early attendees of 12-Step meetings to GET DOWN ON THEIR KNEES AND PRAY to this "god", before being allowed to participate in 12-Step meetings! The chapter, "We Agnostics", is nothing more then a patronizing, degradation towards those who do not have the "belief necessary" in this "Power Greater Then Ourselves" concept. I guess that atheists and agnostics that attend 12-Step meetings (AA, SA, etc.) just get up and leave when the PRAYING part is on (at the beginning and end of EACH MEETING!)?

I never implied that therapists "take a cut" of AA's voluntary revenue collections in order to refer clients to it. I am saying that they do so out of the IGNORANCE of: a.) there are OTHER, SECULAR self-help groups to refer to, IN ADDITION TO, 12-Step ones, and b.) if a therapist is IN a 12-Step group, and then referring clients to one, that THAT IS A CLEAR CONFLICT OF PROFESSIONAL INTEREST (who would WANT to see a 12-Step attending therapist for a disorder anyway, if the therapist hasn't gotten clean of his/her OWN DAMNED PROBLEM?). Besides, there is ZERO PROOF that 12-Step programs are somehow "more effective" then a non-12-Step program, nor any treatment at all, as it is IMPOSSIBLE to measure the "effectiveness" of a group, that doesn't keep any damned records of who attends it, for how long, and how the attendees can "prove" their attendance resulted in their "recovery", vs. doing an alternative activity.

As far as what "SA" would consider "healthy" sexuality, if it's not calling for "sexual abstinance", then it is automatically a "moderation" program. And the "healthiness" of that "moderation" is determined by: the attendees of an SA group? A sponsor? A "big book"? Not getting arrested for a sexual related offense? I mean, what kind of "healthy standard" can a 12-Step based SA group place on what a person has to VOLUNTARILY engage in, with the VOLUNTARY movement of limbs, in order to attain the sexual activity desired? It sure as hell isn't being "powerless", and it is definetly NOT a "disease"!


I've got to disagree with you once again Redneck. The original founders of AA wrote that they believed their higher power to be God, yes with a capital G, but explain in great detail that this higher power can be anything the addict chooses. There is a chapter for the agnostic/athiest. I know numerous atheists who love the program and get a lot out of it. In the present day program there isn't much talk about God or reveling in the glory days of the addiction, but rather talk about concrete ways of stopping the addiction.

And it's not at all about giving up sex. It's about developing a healthy sexuality. I don't know a single person who's goal it is to give up sex. But if a guy has been arrested 3 times for picking up hookers and faces a year with his next conviction, yet still finds himself having extreme difficulty staying off the stroll, this is they type of sexual behavior this guy for example only would be trying to limit. Every other type of sex would be fair game.

There is no unethical conflict about a therapist recommending 12 steps. The therapist doesn't profit from an AA group. They don't take a collection to give a cut to the therapist that recommends their client attend. The "dollar" singlular you put in the basket merely pays for rent. About the only conflict of interest could be the fact that someone who attends 12 step meetings has a proven much greater chance of beating any addiction, including smoking, so that therapists success rate in treating clients will go up.

You're clearly someone who quickly looked at the steps or a website and made a conclusion without actually going or looking very deep. 12 steps have helped millions get out of all kinds of addictions that they had previously been unable to do so. Some people hate the idea of God so much, that as soon as they see that word, the other 99% of the message goes right out the window.

[Member #4186]

As I understand it, unbiased (heh ... already a loaded term; sorry) psychiatric observation suggests that those addicts (to alcohol or illicit drugs) who do accept into their lives a "higher power" and identify it strongly with a monotheistic God, are the ones who tend to be more likely to be able to recover from their addictions.

So, whether or not the "God" exists or not, is really beside the point. The AA point of view, as developed over the years (though distinct perhaps from the rather fundamentalist Protestant foundations), is (again, only as I understand it) that the relinquishing of some decision-making up to a higher power called "God" is essentially a necessary part of the equation. It's necessary NOT because the members of the group might or might not want you to share in their religious beliefs. Rather, it's necessary because without it recovery is very unlikely to happen, at least not by their methods.

I personally don't buy the idea of a "monotheistic God" and I'm not a member of any 12-step program. I certainly don't like the way that many 12-step programs designed for (what they perceive to be) sexual addiction, are generally extremely religion-based, more so than the mere "higher power" emphasis as I've described above for AA. Basically they think you can either be a monk or a sex addict.

For me, a "true" freedom from sex addiction would be, that I found sex to be more fulfilling if I undertook it with a partner whom I was "dating" and "respected" in a mutually supportive long-term relationship. I don't. The newer the partner to me, the better the sex. This doesn't mean (to me?) I'm "addicted to sex," but it does mean I spend a lot of time and energy, and a lot more money than I would wish, on getting new partners. People whom I have not previously banged.

I have read elsewhere that one tenet of the schizoid psychosis is that it lacks a true understanding of "feelings." People with different forms of certain psychopathic or sociopathic disorders simply feel stimuli and responses, as opposed to emotional states, and that they lack certain types of imaginative lives. I believe I am kind of like that. I don't really know what it is like to "be in love" or to "be disappointed." I don't have dreams and goals, at least not that I work toward in my imagination, and I don't really believe that my actions lead toward the attainment of goals. Especially as far as human relationships and sexuality go, all I have is beauty-to-boner responses (I see beauty, I get boner), and then stroking-to-orgasm responses (the beautiful woman administers to me by stroking the right parts of my skin in the right way while I do the same to her, I get orgasm). That doesn't "feel" like an emotional bond at all, and I'm flabbergasted that human females have some kind of "out of bounds" response, by which their act of coitus leads them to some emotional state. That's just plain old weird to me, and I kind of don't believe it. I think they're just indulging in the little-girl-Princess fantasy, when they say, "Oh, I feel so CLOSE to a man after we've had sex." I remember being a little-boy-Galahad and fantasizing about defeating dragons and being a hero, but I grew up and out of that false belief about myself. I wish the women in my life would also grow up, and recognize that sexual acts are at base simple biological drives, like eating and shitting.

But they won't. They insist on remaining in the child-like fantasy zone. This is fine for them, I don't mind if they ruin their lives or not. But it's not fine for me. I can't navigate their ineptitudes and childishness. I can't figure out how to make these childish humans (hot females) want to fuck me. So, I have to pay for it instead.

That means I'm sexually addicted? Well, I'm addicted to the act of paying for it, that's fer-sure.

[Member #5605]

I would LOVE to see the "research studies" SUPPORTING this "idea" that those who "adopt/believe in" some "HP" are somehow able to "better recover from an addiction" then those who do NOT have one! I have been working with alcoholics and drug addicts for 8 years now, and can count on one hand (3-to be exact!), the number of atheists/agnostic/lack-of-"spiritual" believing, alcoholics or drug addicts I have come across! Again, if "spirituality" had ANYTHING to do with an addictive disorder, a person that ALREADY HAS THAT "spirituality" should NEVER BECOME addicted to anything, as the "spirituality" would be mentally and pleasureably satisfying ENOUGH to keep an addiction to a liquid, solid, or even a multitude of orgasms, out of their lives!

Somehow "prayer" to a "HP", or "spirituality" acknowledgement, just doesn't seem to rise to the level of PLEASURE a person with an addiction desires/demands. This is probably why 12-Step programs DO NOT WORK! Praying vs. an orgasm? I'll take the orgasm! Praying vs. intoxication? I'll take the intoxication! Sexual "addiction" vs. life of "sexual sobriety" as defined by some 12-Step group?? Hell, I will take the "label", and then demand they prove it has legitimate, quantitative, and documented, SCIENTIFIC CRITERIA!


As I understand it, unbiased (heh ... already a loaded term; sorry) psychiatric observation suggests that those addicts (to alcohol or illicit drugs) who do accept into their lives a "higher power" and identify it strongly with a monotheistic God, are the ones who tend to be more likely to be able to recover from their addictions.

So, whether or not the "God" exists or not, is really beside the point. The AA point of view, as developed over the years (though distinct perhaps from the rather fundamentalist Protestant foundations), is (again, only as I understand it) that the relinquishing of some decision-making up to a higher power called "God" is essentially a necessary part of the equation. It's necessary NOT because the members of the group might or might not want you to share in their religious beliefs. Rather, it's necessary because without it recovery is very unlikely to happen, at least not by their methods.

I personally don't buy the idea of a "monotheistic God" and I'm not a member of any 12-step program. I certainly don't like the way that many 12-step programs designed for (what they perceive to be) sexual addiction, are generally extremely religion-based, more so than the mere "higher power" emphasis as I've described above for AA. Basically they think you can either be a monk or a sex addict.

For me, a "true" freedom from sex addiction would be, that I found sex to be more fulfilling if I undertook it with a partner whom I was "dating" and "respected" in a mutually supportive long-term relationship. I don't. The newer the partner to me, the better the sex. This doesn't mean (to me?) I'm "addicted to sex," but it does mean I spend a lot of time and energy, and a lot more money than I would wish, on getting new partners. People whom I have not previously banged.

I have read elsewhere that one tenet of the schizoid psychosis is that it lacks a true understanding of "feelings." People with different forms of certain psychopathic or sociopathic disorders simply feel stimuli and responses, as opposed to emotional states, and that they lack certain types of imaginative lives. I believe I am kind of like that. I don't really know what it is like to "be in love" or to "be disappointed." I don't have dreams and goals, at least not that I work toward in my imagination, and I don't really believe that my actions lead toward the attainment of goals. Especially as far as human relationships and sexuality go, all I have is beauty-to-boner responses (I see beauty, I get boner), and then stroking-to-orgasm responses (the beautiful woman administers to me by stroking the right parts of my skin in the right way while I do the same to her, I get orgasm). That doesn't "feel" like an emotional bond at all, and I'm flabbergasted that human females have some kind of "out of bounds" response, by which their act of coitus leads them to some emotional state. That's just plain old weird to me, and I kind of don't believe it. I think they're just indulging in the little-girl-Princess fantasy, when they say, "Oh, I feel so CLOSE to a man after we've had sex." I remember being a little-boy-Galahad and fantasizing about defeating dragons and being a hero, but I grew up and out of that false belief about myself. I wish the women in my life would also grow up, and recognize that sexual acts are at base simple biological drives, like eating and shitting.

But they won't. They insist on remaining in the child-like fantasy zone. This is fine for them, I don't mind if they ruin their lives or not. But it's not fine for me. I can't navigate their ineptitudes and childishness. I can't figure out how to make these childish humans (hot females) want to fuck me. So, I have to pay for it instead.

That means I'm sexually addicted? Well, I'm addicted to the act of paying for it, that's fer-sure.

[Civ2000]

You're very unenlightened. There are lot's of studies that show 12-step groups greatly increase an addicts chance of recovery. Also you're quite wrong that a group defines sexual sobriety. In all groups except one, the addict defines their own sexual sobriety. Since most of your statements are false and misleading, I'll assume you just don't know what you're talking about.

Although not a 12-step program, Salvation Army is another spiritual program that deals with low-bottom, worst of the worst street alcoholics, and has a fairly high success rate also. There are hundreds of thousands of addicts that have recovered using spiritual/religious programs and the 12-steps. To say anything but is complete BS and you know it.

Praying vs. cruising around all night risking arrest, disease, getting my car seized to pay some crack ho 40 bucks for a 5-minute bj? Yeah, I'd gladly take prayer anyday. Most addicts would.

[Civ2000]

And there are studies out there if you look for them. The makers of the nicotine patch for example have followed groups of smokers using just the patch and those using the patch and attending nicotine anonymous groups and the second group has something like a 20% higher success rate in quiting smoking. Take virtually any hospitals quit smoking program and most have lists of support groups and encourage all attendees to go to them.

Drug Treatment Centers -Virtually everyone encourages 12-step meeting participation because their experience is that those who attend meetings stay clean more often than those who don't.

Physicians - every doctor I've ever had (when I was fighting alcoholism) recommended 12-step programs.

Therapists - Ditto.

Studies have shown that those who claim to believe in a higher power not only have a longer life expectancy, but also are happier.

And then there's RedNeck who thinks he knows everything because he has no room in his life for God or a higher power. Although it's clear he's never attended a meeting because of his false statements like the group deciding what sobriety is.

[Member #5605]

As for "unenlightenment"-NAME THE STUDIES! Let's see the CITATIONS! PROVE THEIR EXISTENCE (and that of your fairy-tale "god" for that matter!).
Let's see the criteria that any OBJECTIVE SOURCE used to prove that a "12-Step program" (which again, keeps NO RECORDS, AND NO NAMES!) is better then a non-12-Step program, or doing nothing! The idea that someone that CHOOSES to engage in a VOLUNTARY BEHAVIOR and call themselves "powerless" over an "addiction" is the worse abdication of individual responsibility, and in all likelihood shows the person should not be even breathing air! Whether the "addiction" is to nicotine, alcohol, sex, or the internet, let's see one objectively-researched example of where it is scientifically PROVEN! Just because a bunch of people, whether MD's, or Ph.D's say something "works", and it's been around for a long time-DOES NOT MEAN THAT IT DOES! (Is the Catholic Church proof that IT "works" because it's been around for 2,000 years, and has the most number of people in it-within Christianity?). The burden of proof is ON YOU! Let's see it.


And there are studies out there if you look for them. The makers of the nicotine patch for example have followed groups of smokers using just the patch and those using the patch and attending nicotine anonymous groups and the second group has something like a 20% higher success rate in quiting smoking. Take virtually any hospitals quit smoking program and most have lists of support groups and encourage all attendees to go to them.

Drug Treatment Centers -Virtually everyone encourages 12-step meeting participation because their experience is that those who attend meetings stay clean more often than those who don't.

Physicians - every doctor I've ever had (when I was fighting alcoholism) recommended 12-step programs.

Therapists - Ditto.

Studies have shown that those who claim to believe in a higher power not only have a longer life expectancy, but also are happier.

And then there's RedNeck who thinks he knows everything because he has no room in his life for God or a higher power. Although it's clear he's never attended a meeting because of his false statements like the group deciding what sobriety is.

[Member #4186]

Redneck, you've made an obvious logical fallacy.

I said: 12-steppers say, "You're more likely to recover if you have faith in a higher power."
You responded: If that's true, then only agnostics would be addicts.

How idiotic can you be? How about Catholics who fail to recover? I didn't say that faith in a higher power was the ONLY thing necessary for recovery, nor did I say that recovery was guaranteed if you had faith in a higher power, nor did I say that lack of faith in a higher power mandated any form of addiction, nor did I say that lack of faith in a higher power mandated failure to recover. Further, I didn't even say that *I* believed in a higher power, or in its necessity for recovery; I said that OTHER PEOPLE report that idea. You're really too simple-minded to follow this discussion, if you genuinely believe that your response is germane to my points.

I find it hard to believe that you have EVER worked with addicts of any sort in North America or in the English-speaking world, if you claim that you've never seen reports about the faith-based success of things like AA and other 12-step programs. That's an old-hat true-ism, this idea that 12-step programs succeed when participants give up part of their decision-making capabilities to what they term "a higher power." It's a simple fact. "I've never seen studies" implies you aren't looking.

But I do agree with you, that the studies may be false. The connection between recovery and faith may be a false one, or a merely anecdotal one; or it may have something to do with having a supportive community, or having a straight-laced lifestyle with a censorious observing community, or it may just be a random statistical correlation without any causation to connect the two ideas, or it may even be that there's not even a statistical correlation.

But ya gotta admit, nearly everybody out there (just generalizing here) TALKS about AA and other 12-step programs as though a "main portion" of recovery includes faith in a higher power. It's standardly accepted as part of it all. This is nothing novel.

I don't advocate for or against faith, its connection to or disconnection from recovery, or for or against 12-step programs. I've experienced none of the above. I'm just trying to make the issues here clear. All I'm saying is, PEOPLE (generally) TEND TO THINK (in a general sort of way) that an effective 12-step program requires faith in a higher power, among a lot of other things, for recovery to be successful.

[Civ2000]

Redneck, I never mentioned a belief in God. Just because I believe a support group like AA helps lot's of people, for me the group is the higher power. Obviously you have serious issues with the idea of God and the mere mention makes you shut down the obvious that is all around you. Being closed-minded is not a recovery tool either.

I admit I don't like the word "powerlessness" when it comes to addiction either. But most don't understand that concept either. When I was fighting the bottle, I tried everything I could do on my own to quit and I could not. The addiction was bigger than I. So I would say I was powerless over the addiction. But I wasn't powerless over my recovery. It took treatment, meetings, counseling, calling people when I was tempted, etc., to give it up. Not just one thing, many.

My suggestion to you is the common tool of "investigate before making conclusions." Obviously you haven't been to a meeting because of all the false assumptions you make, like the group defining your sobriety. Go to a few and report back to us. I think you will find a group of guys, particularly in a group like AA that goes back a long ways, a lot of people with long-term and quality sobriety that had no luck before attending meetings. And then you can stand up and tell them that it's not working. If you do work with alcoholics and addicts you have a duty to check out ALL available resources. That is if you are any good at what you do.

[Baltimonger]

Do you go to AA/NA/SA/GA, etc. meetings because you want to quit your addiction, or do you want to quit your addiction because you go to meetings?

The long-term success rates of these groups are single digits. Maybe those are the ones who would've quit anyway, group or no group. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

(?)

[Member #5605]

Exactly! "Maturing out" of a behavior has probably more to do with quitting an "addiction" then all the "mental masturbation" of every self-help group (12-Step, or non-12-Step!) COMBINED! Ask a smoker for example! Any person who has permenantly smoking will tell you that it was an act of "spontaneity", with no "support group", sponsors, meetings, or steps involved. The will of an individual to STOP an activity will end it just as the will to NOT STOP an activity will keep it going. It is always a choice, pure and simple!


Do you go to AA/NA/SA/GA, etc. meetings because you want to quit your addiction, or do you want to quit your addiction because you go to meetings?

The long-term success rates of these groups are single digits. Maybe those are the ones who would've quit anyway, group or no group. Sick and tired of being sick and tired.

(?)

[Member #3943]

Ok I was an alcoholic, and a hobbyist, now just a hobbyist, at least I don't get into as much trouble as I used to, but I get a lot more pussy and know what I did, its kinda like fishing you got to bait your hook and troll, at mid 50's you just think about it much more and want it much more like a permanent bucket list. I found a lady on one of the swing sites that her husband allows her to fuck me it gets them all revved up, it works for everbody she says. We are human, and have hormones. Drinking has caused me a ton more problems thans sex has. I do think about sex a lot but its comes more natural now than it did years ago.

Good luck guys

[Tomkat4848]

I think we are all sex addicts. It is natural for a healthy man to want to get laid every day. Most women want it too.

[Member #4186]

All women want it. In fact, just from impressionistic investigation, subjectively, I'd have to say that women want sex and "need" and crave it, for their wellbeing, much more than men. And I think they get it more often, too. They're just better liars and manipulators with it, than we are.

[Civ2000]

I think we are all sex addicts. It is natural for a healthy man to want to get laid every day. Most women want it too.

Absolutely it's natural for a man to want to get laid everyday. Is it natural for a man to go cruising for prostitutes ten minutes after he gets out of jail for patronizing a prostitute? Is it natural for a guy to pay for sex everyday, even though all his credit cards are maxed out and they are foreclosing on his home?

See you guys all make the mistake that wanting sex all the time equates to sexual addiction. It doesn't. Addiction is the continuation of a behavior despite wanting to stop and despite negative consequences. Just like drinking everyday, even drinking until one is quite drunk does not make one an alcoholic. The inability to control one's drinking and the inability to stop drinking despite the fact it's costing you employment and relationships etc., is what makes one an alcoholic.

[Toshiosamma]

All women want it. ...I know one who definitely does NOT want it.

-------------------------------------------------

Fuck all women - the prime directive.

[Gorilla69]

Well, I have a story to tell. The wife got into my gmail account due to a stupid move on my part and she found evidence of me with a couple of girls. To say the least the shit hit the fan. I am working on fixing this, mostly through admitting sexual addiction and going to counseling.

I am sure that I am an Eliot Spitzer type... doing it mostly for the thrill, not the sex. Anyway, I think I can salvage the relationship in the long term, but only because the stupid woman really loves me, though I no longer understand why.

So... keep your shit secure or pay the consequences.

[Member #5605]

When exactly does this MYTH of "loss of control" occur? Regardless of the behavior (drinking, sex, illicit drug addiction), how exactly DOES an "involuntariness" of acquiring the DESIRED ACTIVITY OCCUR if you HAVE TO ENGAGE IN VOLUNTARY PROCESS TO DO THE ACTIVITY? I mean, you CANNOT drink, get laid, or take addicting drugs unless hands. feet, arms and legs are involved, and THOSE require VOLUNTARY MOVEMENT, AND ENGAGEMENT on the part of the user! Just because you have the DESIRE to do an activity, and you may "not know why" you have the "obsessive-compulsive desire, where the hell is it written that an ACT must follow the THOUGHT! "Addiction" is a CHOICE! Period! It's time so-called "addicts" took responsibility for their own damned actions, and realized that yes, they ARE, ACTIVE, VOLUNTARY PARTICIPANTS in the behavior that results in the problems and consequences!


Absolutely it's natural for a man to want to get laid everyday. Is it natural for a man to go cruising for prostitutes ten minutes after he gets out of jail for patronizing a prostitute? Is it natural for a guy to pay for sex everyday, even though all his credit cards are maxed out and they are foreclosing on his home?

See you guys all make the mistake that wanting sex all the time equates to sexual addiction. It doesn't. Addiction is the continuation of a behavior despite wanting to stop and despite negative consequences. Just like drinking everyday, even drinking until one is quite drunk does not make one an alcoholic. The inability to control one's drinking and the inability to stop drinking despite the fact it's costing you employment and relationships etc., is what makes one an alcoholic.

[A John]

First let me say I apologize. I wasn't sure where to post this. I'm quite aware that it's somewhere in Latin America but I thought you guys here would enjoy it also :) This is a boat show, and whoever does this guy's marketing is a genius. What a way to draw a crowd! Just think about it who buys boats? "Men" what do men like "PUSSY" we need some of these here at home ;)

Anybody want to buy a boat
AJ

[Sarang Haeyo]

First let me say I apologize. I wasn't sure where to post this. I'm quite aware that it's somewhere in Latin America but I thought you guys here would enjoy it also :) This is a boat show, and whoever does this guy's marketing is a genius. What a way to draw a crowd! Just think about it who buys boats? "Men" what do men like "PUSSY" we need some of these here at home ;)

Anybody want to buy a boat
AJ
Can we get a discount on the floor model? I'll take it as is!

[NobodyYouKnow]

Anybody want to buy a boatNo. But I sure as hell have an urge to go fishing.

[Comcast1]

First let me say I apologize. I wasn't sure where to post this. I'm quite aware that it's somewhere in Latin America but I thought you guys here would enjoy it also :) This is a boat show, and whoever does this guy's marketing is a genius. What a way to draw a crowd! Just think about it who buys boats? "Men" what do men like "PUSSY" we need some of these here at home ;)

Anybody want to buy a boat
AJI didn't see any boat. What boat?

[Member #5605]

I agree-EXCELLENT "marketing" ploy! I will go out and BUY that exact boat-AS LONG AS-it comes with the hotties, demonstrating their sexual enrgies WITH the boat! ;)


First let me say I apologize. I wasn't sure where to post this. I'm quite aware that it's somewhere in Latin America but I thought you guys here would enjoy it also :) This is a boat show, and whoever does this guy's marketing is a genius. What a way to draw a crowd! Just think about it who buys boats? "Men" what do men like "PUSSY" we need some of these here at home ;)

Anybody want to buy a boat
AJ

[Member #4186]

Too bad the women are so unappealing.

By the way, I wonder if that stunned, dulled-out, blank look which is visible on the face of nearly every single man observing, is the kind of stupid expression I put on my face when I'm watching hotties.

[Wonderlust]

When exactly does this MYTH of..............It's time so-called "addicts" took responsibility for their own damned actions, and realized that yes, they ARE, ACTIVE, VOLUNTARY PARTICIPANTS in the behavior that results in the problems and consequences!Well friend, that's what is taught in a twelve step program. It doesn't matter if it's a program for AA, SA(sex addiction), eating addiction or other compulsive disorders or addictions. Recognise you are powerless over the addiction and take responsibility for your life.

I have had some good success with my sex addiction. I have not used the services of a prostitute in quite some time. I still think about it but those thoughts don't have the same power over me they once had. I do prefer to think about it as a compulsion rather than an addiction though.

[Member #4186]

Compulsion ... addiction ... is there a difference? Do you have different definitions for the two? What's the advantage of thinking of it one way as opposed to the other way?

Seriously, I'm not asking rhetorical questions here. Maybe the semantics will help me to consider my own issues. Thanks. :)

[Member #5605]

How exactly is STOPPING a behavior ('compulsive" or "addictive") an example of being "powerless", if the behavior STOPS? If someone is "powerless" over ANY activity, there would NEVER be ANY STOPPING OVER IT! (like having control over blinking!). So, where exactly is any RESPONSIBILITY over a behavior taken if a "12-Step" program's assertion is you are "powerless to stop it", and yet DO! Makes no damned sense! Period!


Well friend, that's what is taught in a twelve step program. It doesn't matter if it's a program for AA, SA(sex addiction), eating addiction or other compulsive disorders or addictions. Recognise you are powerless over the addiction and take responsibility for your life.

I have had some good success with my sex addiction. I have not used the services of a prostitute in quite some time. I still think about it but those thoughts don't have the same power over me they once had. I do prefer to think about it as a compulsion rather than an addiction though.

[Daka1]

Nothing too profound, but here are some ideas that I'm throwing out, FWIW.

A compulsion is a strong urge that one can overcome without significant outside help.

An addiction is a strong compulsion that one can usually only overcome with significant outside help.

It is very difficult to impossible to help someone who denies the problem and doesn't seek help.

At least in the short term, one can be "powerless" over the *feeling* to engage in certain acts, but at the same time, one has the power to resist the act itself, though maybe with great difficulty.

Different things work for different people. Humans are nothing if not extremely complex beings.

Good luck and best wishes to all.

D

[A John]

Definition of powerless:
Take a box of exlax and willpower your way not to shit.

I personally choose not to work on my sexual behavior/enthusiasm.

If you know so much about 12 step programs then you know if you go to the barbershop often enough you will get a haircut! If you go to the hotdog stand often enough you will buy a hotdog!

If you're working on this behavior so diligently with so much success what in the hell are you doing being a member of this forum. You might even look at changing your handle from Wonderlust to rejuvenate. Looking at your profile looks like you might of slipped on some streetwalker action last Oct. Not using sexual solicitation for 4 months I wouldn't call it great success.

I got 42 yrs of a 12 step program this year. What I'm observing you might wanna try to save your own ass from obsessional, compulsive behaviors. The only persons ass you can save is your own! Carrying the message is a great thing but carrying the addict is insane.

I'm sure if your sponsor new you're a member of this forum he might suggest your in relapse mode!

I'm only talking from 42 years of experience of a 12 step program. Not saying I'm better than anyone because everyone has faults.

I'm just saying if this is a problem in your life Wonderlust than worry about your situation.

Remember when you point the finger what's pointing back at you!

Make the man in the mirror happy, joyous and free!

Just one man of many men
AJ





Well friend, that's what is taught in a twelve step program. It doesn't matter if it's a program for AA, SA(sex addiction), eating addiction or other compulsive disorders or addictions. Recognise you are powerless over the addiction and take responsibility for your life.

I have had some good success with my sex addiction. I have not used the services of a prostitute in quite some time. I still think about it but those thoughts don't have the same power over me they once had. I do prefer to think about it as a compulsion rather than an addiction though.

[Member #5605]

Let's take it a step BACKWARD, and reevaluate engaging in the VOLUNTARY BEHAVIOR of NOT TAKING THE FUCKING EX-LAX TO BEGIN WITH! This is what makes a so-called "addict" so fucking STUPID! What part of moving hands, feet, arms, and legs in the ACQUISITION of the desired activity (getting a hooker, drinking alcohol, or ingesting illicit drugs!) do they NOT GET? You can crave an activity (the "desire") till you fucking cry, but if you do not engage in the PHYSICAL MOVEMENT TO GET IT (or call the "provider" to your immediate residential dwelling!), you are not gonna have the activity "spontaneously" force itself upon you! And for that matter, if a person has 42 years in a "12-Step" program (which I would NOT be bragging about!), then it sounds like "responsibility" is just not a strong feature of "abstinance" is it?


Definition of powerless:
Take a box of exlax and willpower your way not to shit.

I personally choose not to work on my sexual behavior/enthusiasm.

If you know so much about 12 step programs then you know if you go to the barbershop often enough you will get a haircut! If you go to the hotdog stand often enough you will buy a hotdog!

If you're working on this behavior so diligently with so much success what in the hell are you doing being a member of this forum. You might even look at changing your handle from Wonderlust to rejuvenate. Looking at your profile looks like you might of slipped on some streetwalker action last Oct. Not using sexual solicitation for 4 months I wouldn't call it great success.

I got 42 yrs of a 12 step program this year. What I'm observing you might wanna try to save your own ass from obsessional, compulsive behaviors. The only persons ass you can save is your own! Carrying the message is a great thing but carrying the addict is insane.

I'm sure if your sponsor new you're a member of this forum he might suggest your in relapse mode!

I'm only talking from 42 years of experience of a 12 step program. Not saying I'm better than anyone because everyone has faults.

I'm just saying if this is a problem in your life Wonderlust than worry about your situation.

Remember when you point the finger what's pointing back at you!

Make the man in the mirror happy, joyous and free!

Just one man of many men
AJ

[Orlando J]

why am I addicted? I do not know all the reasons. Some of them are nature driven (instinct). But I like passionate loud women. I like to see them sigh, moan, pant, scream of joy ... etc while I am giving it to them. That's one of the things that keeps me coming back. Whenever I crave for a girl I would imagine myself giving it to her and she's passionately enjoying it. She enjoys and suffers but enjoys more so she asks for more.
On this note, girls are different some enjoy but do not suffer at all. Some suffer a lot and enjoy a lot. Some just suffer without joy; mostly those are the one's that are not sexually active.
Another factor is the duration, some girls cum fast and they can't cum again. Some are mutli-orgasmic ... etc.
I would be interested to see research done on these topics! Few interesting questions would be to predict these;
Can you tell if she is a passionate loud girl?
Can you tell if she'd be a multi-orgasmic?
Can you tell if she cums fast?

[Member #5605]

I am pretty sure Kinsey researched some of these issues.


why am I addicted? I do not know all the reasons. Some of them are nature driven (instinct). But I like passionate loud women. I like to see them sigh, moan, pant, scream of joy ... etc while I am giving it to them. That's one of the things that keeps me coming back. Whenever I crave for a girl I would imagine myself giving it to her and she's passionately enjoying it. She enjoys and suffers but enjoys more so she asks for more.
On this note, girls are different some enjoy but do not suffer at all. Some suffer a lot and enjoy a lot. Some just suffer without joy; mostly those are the one's that are not sexually active.
Another factor is the duration, some girls cum fast and they can't cum again. Some are mutli-orgasmic ... etc.
I would be interested to see research done on these topics! Few interesting questions would be to predict these;
Can you tell if she is a passionate loud girl?
Can you tell if she'd be a multi-orgasmic?
Can you tell if she cums fast?

[A John]

It's OK you just don't get it! For that matter probably never will.

However don't forget opinions are like assholes everybody's got one.

I hope someday when I grow up I can be as responsible and self-righteous as others!

AJ

PS
Not that it would matter to you or that I personally care about your opinion. I am extremely ecstatic about MY 42yrs.

Never criticize a man unless you`ve walked in his shoes.

Wonderlust knows exactly where I'm coming from, and that's what was important to me!

[Member #5605]

What exactly IS it that you want "Gotten"? Your inability to make RATIONAL CHOICES? What a pathetic, waste of oxygen consumption you are? Obviously, rational decision making will never be your forte! I am ecstatic about my 42, soon to be 43 years too! They involve ZERO ADDICTION OF ANY IMPAIRING BEHAVIOR OR SUBSTANCE! Don't be jealous!


It's OK you just don't get it! For that matter probably never will.

However don't forget opinions are like assholes everybody's got one.

I hope someday when I grow up I can be as responsible and self-righteous as others!

AJ

PS
Not that it would matter to you or that I personally care about your opinion. I am extremely ecstatic about MY 42yrs.

Never criticize a man unless you`ve walked in his shoes.

Wonderlust knows exactly where I'm coming from, and that's what was important to me!

[A John]

HEY,
TRAILER PARK
Reading back a couple pages it's obvious to many here you are the one who needs to look in the mirror.

Something is obviously hitting a nerve with you (pushing a button)
push, push, push & push

Does CONTROLLING sound familiar!

I'm done with your ignorance.

LMFAO :)
AJ

[Member #5605]

I see, and you are such a damned genius, you . . . . CAN'T ANSWER THE QUESTIONS?? You cannot even articulate to yourself your own "sobriety/contol over behavior" maintenance?? P.S. Enjoy your relapse, cause I don't think abstinance is a viable option for you!


Reading back a couple pages it's obvious to many here you are the one who needs to look in the mirror.

I'm done with your ignorance.
AJ

[Daka1]

Two cliches come to mind concerning recent posts on this thread.

> Gentlemen can disagree without being disagreeable.

> If you argue with a fool, you may be taken for a fool.

The topics being discussed here are obviously very personal, not-to-say explosive, and some folks are very touchy. There seems to be more heat than light in many comments. Let's keep in mind how our posts might contribute to increased understanding and success in reaching desired goals.

While I disagree with a lot of what I read, I can also usually find nuggets of truth in almost any non-trivial post.

It is sometimes useful to focus on points of agreement, even while pointing out points of disagreement.

D

[Member #4186]

Redneck

The thread's about addictions. If there is or isn't a legitimate possibility that someone has a sexual addiction, is a valid question. Accusing certain members (most of whom you've never met) of not having addictions, or of being normal rather than addicted, in the absence of evidence about their lives, is not really a valid response.

It's kind of like talking about food addiction. We all need food, and most of us use it rather sensibly. Some of us use it irresponsibly but still aren't "addicted" -- nevertheless, we experience deleterious side-effects from our lack of moderation (overweight; unhealthy). But THEN, above and beyond the "irresponsible" eaters, there are actually ADDICTED people. They have a set of neuro-transmitter and other physiological and psychological responses to a certain behavior, which are categorically different from the previous two categories. Responsible and irresponsible eaters, alike, are simply making choices and living by them, as you rightly point out, Redneck. But ADDICTION victims are not making choices for themselves. Their addiction, rather than their internal mental skills, is the issue at hand.

You wouldn't walk into a room of people who are suffering the detoxification symptoms of coming off a three-year heroin binge, and tell them they should "try harder" not to feel bad about the absence of heroin in their bloodstream. Well, similarly, it's foolish to tell someone who is sexually addicted, that his only issue is will power.

People who make some sexual choices that are rather gluttonous, but who are nevertheless not addicted, have one pattern of behavior. You're welcome to go talk to them. They aren't, generally, in this thread. They're all over the rest of this website. :)

People who are genuinely ADDICTED to sexuality experience it differently. They get out of jail for cruising, and cruise that same afternoon. They lose all their money and then go solicit a pay-for-play. They lose their job for spending the afternoon cruising, and then cruise on the first day of their new job. These people require not just suggestions about choices and will power. Their will power is insufficient to control their addiction. The issue for them has almost NOTHING to do with choices and will power. It has to do, instead, with addiction.

You're not an addiction counselor, Redneck. I see that you've claimed some expertise in this area. That's a lie. If you did have expertise, you wouldn't so obviously conflate two familiar conditions into one. You wouldn't assert tough-love enthusiasm-coaching of the "improve your will power" sort, to people for whom (as you would instantly know, if you genuinely had experience) the question has nothing to do with will power.

[Snake27]

Well, there is something to what Redneck is saying.

For example, I have never been addicted to heroin because I know it's highly addictive and I have resisted all invitations to give it a try. I am responsible for that first hit.

From what I remember reading there is some controversy in the psychology community about whether "sex addiction" even exists. And IMHO we shouldn't demand forum members produce citations of studies. Of course it would improve their credibility but this is an anonymous forum, not a peer-reviewed journal. The way it works for me is: if a credible-sounding member makes a statement which is interesting or useful to me, I'll follow-up on it myself. For example, I researched the 12-step program because of what I read here.

Indeed there is some danger that by calling a behaviour an "addiction" we dismiss our responsiblity. We may rationalize that we are no longer in control, so it's somehow ok to do it. We say: "Can't stop it, so don't try."

Hookers are just not on a par with heroin. I don't go into a shaking delirium if I have deprived myself of hookers.

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time -- I know it's tough out there -- just playing devil's advocate here.

[Member #5605]

Thank you Snake! Point well taken! I too don't have withdrawls if I don't get laid, but blue balls sure hurt, and it sucks to not have that pleasure that is found in SEX! However, it does not, nor ever has been at the level of an "addiction", and for anyone advocating that it is, is well-versed in the art of NOT taking responsibility for what is an overwhelmingly VOLUNTARY activity, whether it is consuming sex or an illicit, intoxicating drug. Period!


Well, there is something to what Redneck is saying.

For example, I have never been addicted to heroin because I know it's highly addictive and I have resisted all invitations to give it a try. I am responsible for that first hit.

From what I remember reading there is some controversy in the psychology community about whether "sex addiction" even exists. And IMHO we shouldn't demand forum members produce citations of studies. Of course it would improve their credibility but this is an anonymous forum, not a peer-reviewed journal. The way it works for me is: if a credible-sounding member makes a statement which is interesting or useful to me, I'll follow-up on it myself. For example, I researched the 12-step program because of what I read here.

Indeed there is some danger that by calling a behaviour an "addiction" we dismiss our responsiblity. We may rationalize that we are no longer in control, so it's somehow ok to do it. We say: "Can't stop it, so don't try."

Hookers are just not on a par with heroin. I don't go into a shaking delirium if I have deprived myself of hookers.

I'm not trying to give anyone a hard time -- I know it's tough out there -- just playing devil's advocate here.

[Snake27]

Nevertheless, some people have a problem with sex, so maybe we should call it a "sex problem" instead of "sex addiction", but since the term "sex addiction" is in widespread use and has been defined here it may be convenient to keep using it to label the problem.

First one must decide if one has a problem, and here it may help to have some objective evaluation from a trusted person. If you don't have a problem, great. As an example, I would say that if you are a single man who sees a prostitute once or twice a month, and you don't spend too much, and there's not much danger (either to health or getting arrested), and you're generally happy -- then you do not have a problem. But if these parameters change substantially then you might have a problem.

The interesting question to me is: what to do about it ? There's little useful discussion on that here. After some more thought I may assemble a list of suggestions that have worked (partly) for me. Anyone else want to suggest things that have actually worked ?

[Member #4186]

Snake: yup, I see your point, and purdy much wish I'd said exactly that. :)

[Baltimonger]

Compulsion ... addiction ... is there a difference? Do you have different definitions for the two? What's the advantage of thinking of it one way as opposed to the other way?

Seriously, I'm not asking rhetorical questions here. Maybe the semantics will help me to consider my own issues. Thanks. :)

Addiction, I believe comes from an outward influence; cocaine, heroin, crystal meth, etc. Anything you do because you got hooked on; because or in spite of your intent.

Compulsion come from within: Gambling, stealing, excessive horniness that leads to picking up prostitutes. Anything you do do because your natural body chemistry leads you to it.

[Member #5605]

How can someone have a "problem" with something that one get PLEASURE (e.g. sex or intoxication!) from? As an analogy, I always like to pass on a perspective that one trainer told me regarding alcoholics: They don't have a "problem" with alcohol, they have a problem with SOBRIETY! (After all, if they can't stay SOBER is that not the "problem"?). Same with a so-called sex "addict". That person does NOT have a "problem" with "sex", but a problem with a LACK OF SEX, or lack of sexual partners, encounters, etc. Thus, the voluntary pursuit of ending the "problem" (however temporarily!) begins!



Nevertheless, some people have a problem with sex, so maybe we should call it a "sex problem" instead of "sex addiction", but since the term "sex addiction" is in widespread use and has been defined here it may be convenient to keep using it to label the problem.

First one must decide if one has a problem, and here it may help to have some objective evaluation from a trusted person. If you don't have a problem, great. As an example, I would say that if you are a single man who sees a prostitute once or twice a month, and you don't spend too much, and there's not much danger (either to health or getting arrested), and you're generally happy -- then you do not have a problem. But if these parameters change substantially then you might have a problem.

The interesting question to me is: what to do about it ? There's little useful discussion on that here. After some more thought I may assemble a list of suggestions that have worked (partly) for me. Anyone else want to suggest things that have actually worked ?

[Snake27]

Ok, Redneck, your opinion has been received and is acknowledged. Just to address one specific point in your last post, even if we say drinking alcohol is completely voluntary and leads to pleasure, etc, one potential "problem" is that, if abused, alcohol can lead to serious health problems. Or should we say "health issues" ? In any case, the alcoholic needs help, in my opinion, which is the main point.

[Member #4186]

Redneck is delighting in acting superior to others.

The initial context is, that some people posted on here complaints -- that they felt they might be "addicted" to sexuality. Redneck MIGHT have been able to contribute to that context by asking fair questions which aided those people. They are (myself included) clearly seeking answers to some of life's thornier issues.

Instead, however, Redneck posts with a tone and an attitude that betray three or four very problematic beliefs. The first and foremost of these, is, that Redneck insists on portraying Redneck as knowing more because that makes him better and therefore someone whom we ought to listen to. However, his posts tend to portray a lack of education in this field. Sure, it's fine to question the basic premises as stated by many many workers in the addiction-recovery field, by stating them and then pointing out, point by point, weaknesses in those premises. But to just announce something utterly contradictory to them without acknowledging they exist, indicates to me he doesn't know they exist. He's working in a vacuum.

Second, Redneck insists on speaking down to his listeners. His one piece of advice, consistently, is "Be like me because I'm better." Though he doesn't outright say this, he implies it. Note the circularity -- choose A, because A is worth choosing -- which is the hallmark of those who have nothing but ego to add to a conversation.

Third, Redneck is consistently using "frustrated" language. The tone of a man who is bugged that other people aren't "listening to me." No, Redneck, we ARE listening. JUST listening isn't enough for us to be convinced that you have anything valid to say. Your correct realization of our failure to AGREE with you, is not identical to our failure to HEAR you. You haven't DEFENDED your propositions, and you have generally stated them from far outside the normally accepted context as presented. Like me jumping in to an abortion debate and hollering, "You IDIOTS! How can you USE knives and scalpels on a little baby?" See, it includes several assumptions, and fails to address the other participants (or their opinions) with respect.

In the long run, Redneck is just trolling for a fight. He probably has a lot of deeper personal questions about why he mongers, himself, and doesn't want to address them so instead of thinking about his own issues, he lambastes others who are thinking about similar issues. It's the same as trying to shut everyone up on the internet.

So, to address your question: Redneck, just because it's pleasurable doesn't mean it isn't addicting. And to re-cast alcoholism as people who don't have trouble with drinking but with sobriety, utterly misses the point of much discussion of that addiction, casts yourself as someone not willing to participate in the group's talk, and therefore as someone setting out to deliberately cause problems rather than help resolve them.

You might have a valid point. But if you can't express it in a manner in which the rest of us feel like you're talking WITH us rather than DOWN TO us, then your point will continue to be lost on most of us. Personally, I think you're just very proud of yourself, and now you want the rest of us to acknowledge your superiority and gratify your ego a bit. "Oh, gosh, Redneck, I never thought of it that way. You're so brilliant! Why didn't I REALIZE that sex is PLEASURABLE and therefore I ought to do AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE? Golly, THANK YOU SO MUCH for your help. Where would I be without you?" Yeah right ...

[Snake27]

Below is some advice to mitigate the dangers. I will admit that I am not perfect at following this advice but I have made good progress. My sex habits are far more careful and in better moderation than 20 years ago.

As I've said before, the first step is to decide if you have a problem, and here it may help to have the objective judgement of a trusted person. The criteria would be if the results of your actions can lead to serious negative consequences. If not, then you don't have a problem and you may ignore this post :).

When confronting an addiction, you must define your goals. Moderation and safety are key goals. Consider all the small steps you need to take, and work on them one at a time in sequence. Total elimination of the habit may not be realistic. It is also relevant that two of the main moral problems with visiting prostitutes are the health risk you bring to other partners and the danger of excessive expenditure, where the latter is also a problem with gambling.

With all that, here is my advice:

1. Keep a log of what you spend. This will create pressure to hold down costs. A goal of 2% of income is reasonable.

2. Rigorous adherence to safe sex. Consider alternatives such as lapdances, full-body massages, and handjobs. Don't laugh, if done right they can be fun.

3. Avoid street prostitutes and drug addicts. Finding a few regulars with whom you "click" can reduce risk too.

4. Curfew at 2 am. Limit the number of adventures per month (4 at most, 2 better).

5. Find plenty of non-sexual entertainments and develop routines -- e.g. vigorous workouts on a regular basis (makes you tired, improves your body). Even becoming a workaholic may help (keeps you diverted, improves your career, assuming you have one).

6. Best advice -- though often easier said than done -- find a loving woman, a true friend. Granted you may still feel the temptations (and it raises the aforementioned moral issues) but the demons within will be much calmer.

This advice is free, and you get what you pay for ! :)

[Member #4186]

Good work, Snake! Thanks. :)

Now, HOW does one find a loving true female friend?

I've always (personally) felt, that the problem was simply lack of sexual outlets other than mongering. It seems pretty clear to me, that if I could just get a decent girlfriend who was hot-looking enough and not psychotic about withholding sex and limiting it to only one bout of missionary coitus once a month, I wouldn't feel the need to monger at all. Really, why ARE women so fucked up about sex?

[Sarang Haeyo]

Now, HOW does one find a loving true female friend?

Really, why ARE women so fucked up about sex?

Not every woman is "fucked up about sex."

I've retired from this sport and am married to a former AMP worker. Every K-girl I've talked to, and especially my wife, tells me if they are treated properly (and this just means being nice to them) they will do whatever you want. "Anytime you want honey-ya, I'm your wife."

Go East young man.

[The Backrow]

Over the past two years I have read everything I can get my hands on about addiction and recovery. I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what recovery program is followed. I have, however, noticed 2 keys to successful recovery from an addiction. They are: 1. The person must have an overwhelming desire to change their behavior, and 2. They must believe, without a doubt, they can change their behavior. If those 2 keys are not present then no recovery program will work.

For those who want to blast my observations, feel free to do so. It won't change what I have seen.

[Member #5605]

One of the worst forms of mental masturbation perpetuated on American society is this belief that it is a "desire to stop" that results in one stopping an "addictive behavior". How exactly can this be, when the "desire" to stop an activity is just a THOUGHT, whereas the ACT OF STOPPING equals the actual stopping? You can think, plan, desire, contemplate, meditate, masturbate, and levitate your way all over the act of "stopping", but IT NEVER WILL OCCUR until you actually engage in the VOLUNTARY ACT OF STOPPING THE BEHAVIOR! PERIOD! Thinking about it does NOTHING. Stopping it does! THAT is the damned difference! It does not matter whether the activity is an addictive substance, or a so-called "addictive activity", until you stop it, you are only engaging in mental masturbation. You actually want it done? KNOCK IT THE HELL OFF! PERIOD!


Over the past two years I have read everything I can get my hands on about addiction and recovery. I have come to the conclusion that it doesn't matter what recovery program is followed. I have, however, noticed 2 keys to successful recovery from an addiction. They are: 1. The person must have an overwhelming desire to change their behavior, and 2. They must believe, without a doubt, they can change their behavior. If those 2 keys are not present then no recovery program will work.

For those who want to blast my observations, feel free to do so. It won't change what I have seen.

[Snake27]

Well, Redneck, the BRAIN controls the BODY, hence under this scenario THOUGHT controls ACTION. However, perhaps it's not the case for everyone.

Perhaps your message is that one shouldn't think about it (stopping an addiction) too much ? One should "Just do it", as the Nike commercial says ? Not clear how that works, but it sounds simple and appealing.

[Member #5605]

Ok, I will endorse that. No "thinking" for any kind of "pre-contemplation." and just END the behavior (whether a substance or an activity), showing once in for all, control was had all along.


Well, Redneck, the BRAIN controls the BODY, hence under this scenario THOUGHT controls ACTION. However, perhaps it's not the case for everyone.

Perhaps your message is that one shouldn't think about it (stopping an addiction) too much ? One should "Just do it", as the Nike commercial says ? Not clear how that works, but it sounds simple and appealing.

[The Backrow]

When I made my previous post I was referring to people who I observed had stopped their addictive behavior. I was referring to what makes one person stop the behavior with no relapse yet another person struggles with relapse after relapse. What I observed was the people who stopped their addictive behavior had a strong desire to stop and a belief they could stop. It also did not matter if they used a 12 step program, REBT, or simply cold turkey on their own. What mattered was their internal belief system.

[Member #4186]

Agreed -- it's "from the inside" but there's a full panoply of internal characteristics that are necessary. "Just do it" isn't enough advice -- the person has to have ability, desire, determination, and a whole host of other facets to his own character to make it work for him.

Given that this is the case, what would you recommend to someone who has been struggling with relapse after relapse? What would his prescription for change be?

[Horndog132]

Love Sick: Secrets of a Sex AddictSynopsis:

Based on the book by Sue William Silverman, her personal account of conquering sexual addiction through therapy and a 12-step program after a life of abuse.
Genre: Drama, Adaptation

URL: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1213864/

Director:Grant Harvey

Writer:Maria Nation (writer)

Release Date:19 April 2008 (USA) more

Genre:Biography | Drama more

Plot:Based on a memoir by Sue William Silverman about her struggle and triumph over sexual addiction. | add synopsis

Plot Keywords:Seedy Motel | Sex Addict | Partial Female Nudity | Motel Sex | Twelve Step Program
User Comments:I expected more.

*** This comment may contain spoilers ***

I expected there to be more sex scenes in a movie about sex. I didn't need to see nudity or certain body parts but I thought that the scenes they showed were way too short. I had to wait 41 minutes into the movie just to see a two minute scene of lust. It wasn't enough for me watching Sue clean her house and serve cake. I didn't watch the movie for that, I wanted what the title gave me. I suppose I shouldn't judge a movie by it's title. Especially not this movie. There were some good things in it too like how she opened up to her psychiatrist about her past. It explained a lot about the movie. I really didn't know if she was addicted to sex, I thought that she just had a sex problem but what do I know. I really expected more out of this movie and I was somewhat disappointed.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Cast (Cast overview, first billed only)

Sally Pressman ... Sue Silverman

Actress:
"Army Wives" .... Roxy LeBlanc / ... (25 episodes, 2007-2008)
- Episode #2.5 (2008) TV episode .... Roxy LeBlanc
- The Messenger (2008) TV episode .... Roxy LeBlanc
- Strangers in a Strange Land (2008) TV episode .... Roxy LeBlanc
- Would You Know My Name (2008) TV episode .... Roxy LeBlanc
- Goodbye Stranger (2007) TV episode .... Roxy LeBlanc
(20 more)
Love Sick: Secrets of a Sex Addict (2008) (TV) .... Sue Silverman
"The New Adventures of Old Christine" .... Melanie (1 episode, 2008)
- Between a Rock and a Hard Place (2008) TV episode .... Melanie
"Criminal Minds" .... Chrissy Wilkinson (1 episode, 2007)
- Birthright (2007) TV episode .... Chrissy Wilkinson
Life Unkind (2007) .... Amelia
The Dread (2007) .... Teri
Last Rites of the Dead (2006) .... Angela's Boss
... aka Last Rites of the Dead (USA: copyright title)
... aka Zombies Anonymous (USA: new title)
"Shark" .... Deena Brock (1 episode, 2006)
- Pilot (2006) TV episode .... Deena Brock

[R Consultant]

Seeing friends and so forth that had addictions of sorts that really does work. I have seen it. You just have to tell yourself your "done". Then go ahead and just do exactly what you have planned to do. The old saying "'I Try to Say What I Mean, and Mean What I Say".

If you really do try to follow through it will work. But they also say you cant expect to do the same things and get different results. So you have to want change somewhere.

My humble opinion.

Happy Hunting..



Ok, I will endorse that. No "thinking" for any kind of "pre-contemplation." and just END the behavior (whether a substance or an activity), showing once in for all, control was had all along.

[Teabag X]

I am a sex addict and that's OK. I don't smoke crack. HELL! I don't use drugs at all. I don't commit felonies. I don't drive drunk. I only use a firearm when I have to. I salute the flag. I consider all service men and women as heros, as well as all prior service men and women. I own a business. I pay my taxes. I don't mooch off the system. I drink beer. I make moonshine. And I enjoy having sex with beautiful, petite, young ladies, that enjoy older men.

I'm not doing anything wrong.

I'm a sex addict. And that's OK.

[Member #4186]

Amen brother. If you're comfortable with your own actions, then I have nothing but respect for your own choices for yourself, and I salute your self-reliance and sensibility. Amen brother.

[Member #5605]

If you do what you do, and are comfortable, and most importantly, HAVE CONTROL, when you do it, I think the term "addict" does not even apply. One of the more ridiculous concepts of "addiction", is that a person engaged in a specific behavior (whether having lots of sex, or paying for it, or drinking alcohol, or buying and using illegal drugs), is someow "out of control" with that activity. Considering that you, and ONLY YOU, can "make yourself do what YOU do", the idea of your behavior being an "addiction" is questionable at best, and an insult at worse. The 12-Step types that think that EVERYTHING should be labled as an "addiction" use such a broad definition, and vague criteria, that ANY sexual behavior is somehow an addiction! Don't let anyone else give YOU a "label" for what YOU DO on your own-willingly, voluntarily, and knowingly. Period.


I am a sex addict and that's OK. I don't smoke crack. HELL! I don't use drugs at all. I don't commit felonies. I don't drive drunk. I only use a firearm when I have to. I salute the flag. I consider all service men and women as heros, as well as all prior service men and women. I own a business. I pay my taxes. I don't mooch off the system. I drink beer. I make moonshine. And I enjoy having sex with beautiful, petite, young ladies, that enjoy older men.

I'm not doing anything wrong.

I'm a sex addict. And that's OK.

[R Consultant]

If you enjoy something and you are still comfortable and your not hurting anyone in the process then do what you enjoy. To me if you want to smoke a joint and drink beer and you arent committing crimes to get your cash and you have worked for what you have then enjoy yourself.

Theres even people that do cocaine -crack that are functioning in the world everyday. You and I wouldnt even know they are addicted. But if they can function and do a good job who am I judge them. My personal deal with ladies is there all woman who are hookers and are kept by rich men also. That doesnt make them any worse or better.

So just enjoy yourself.

[Civ2000]

I am a sex addict and that's OK. I don't smoke crack. HELL! I don't use drugs at all. I don't commit felonies. I don't drive drunk. I only use a firearm when I have to. I salute the flag. I consider all service men and women as heros, as well as all prior service men and women. I own a business. I pay my taxes. I don't mooch off the system. I drink beer. I make moonshine. And I enjoy having sex with beautiful, petite, young ladies, that enjoy older men.

I'm not doing anything wrong.

I'm a sex addict. And that's OK.

What is it that makes you a sex addict? Are you continuing to have sex with prostitutes despite experiencing increasingly negative consequences? Have you tried to quit but could not? Are you spending money you don't have? If not, probably not an addict.

I completely agree with Redneck here. If you are comfortable, having fun, and in control, you're not an addict even if banging 7 hookers a week. You could also get drunk everynight and not be an alcoholic. Millions of college kids do it. Loss of control, unsuccessful attempts to quit, guilt and remorse, and negative consequences.....that is addiction.

[Tomkat4848]

I am a sex addict and that's OK. I don't smoke crack. HELL! I don't use drugs at all. I don't commit felonies. I don't drive drunk. I only use a firearm when I have to. I salute the flag. I consider all service men and women as heros, as well as all prior service men and women. I own a business. I pay my taxes. I don't mooch off the system. I drink beer. I make moonshine. And I enjoy having sex with beautiful, petite, young ladies, that enjoy older men.

I'm not doing anything wrong.

I'm a sex addict. And that's OK.


Teabag, most of us are sex addicts and there is nothing wrong with that because it is totally natural. I also enjoy sex with those young petite babes.

[Markvi]

You could also get drunk everynight and not be an alcoholic. Millions of college kids do it. Loss of control, unsuccessful attempts to quit, guilt and remorse, and negative consequences.....that is addiction.
Which why Alcoholics Anonymous was such a complete failure in Russia. All Russians already knows they are alcoholics... and are fine with that!

[Mirrar]

The Sexual Addiction Screening Test (SAST) is designed to assist in the assessment of sexually compulsive behavior which may indicate the presence of sex addiction. Developed in cooperation with hospitals, treatment programs, private therapists, and community groups, the SAST provides a profile of responses which help to discriminate between addictive and non-addictive behavior. Before starting the assessment we need basic information in order to build your profile.

Please indicate gender:

Male__ Female __
Indicate Orientation:
Heterosexual __ Bi-sexual __ Homosexual __

Please check any of the following which apply:
__I have no concerns about my sexual behavior but am curious how I would score.
__I have no concerns about my sexual behavior but others are concerned.
__I am having problems with my sexual behavior but do not consider myself a "sex addict".
__I know I am a sex addict.
__I have sought therapy because of my sexual problems.

To complete the test, answer each question by selecting yes/no.

1. Were you sexually abused as a child or adolescent? Y/N
2. Did your parents have trouble with sexual behavior? Y/N
3. Do you often find yourself preoccupied with sexual thoughts? Y/N
4. Do you feel that your sexual behavior is not normal? Y/N
5. Do you ever feel bad about your sexual behavior? Yes No
6. Has your sexual behavior ever created problems for you/family? Y/N
7. Have you ever sought help for sexual behavior you did not like? Y/N
8. Has anyone been hurt emotionally due to of your sexual behavior? Y/N
9. Are any of your sexual activities against the law? Y/N
10. Have you made efforts to quit a type of sexual activity and failed? Y/N
11. Do you hide some of your sexual behaviors from others? Y/N
12. Have you attempted to stop some parts of your sexual activity? Y/N
13. Have you felt degraded by your sexual behaviors? Y/N
14. When you have sex, do you feel depressed afterwards? Y/N
15. Do you feel controlled by your sexual desire? Y/N
16. Have important parts of your life (e.g. job, family, friends, leisure) been neglected because you were spending too much time on sex? Y/N
17. Do you ever think your sexual desire is stronger than you are? Y/N
18. Is sex almost all you think about? Y/N
19. Has sex (or fantasies) been a way for you to escape your problems? Y/N
20. Has sex become the most important thing in your life? Y/N
21. Are you in crisis over sexual matters? Y/N
22. Has the Internet created sexual problems for you? Y/N
23. Do you spend too much time online for sexual purposes? Y/N
24. Have you purchased services online for erotic purposes (sites for dating, pornography, fantasy and friend finder)? Y/N
25. Have you used the Internet to make romantic or erotic connections with people online? Y/N
26. Have people in your life been upset about your sexual activities online? Y/N
27. Have you attempted to stop your online sexual behaviors? Y/N
28. Have you subscribed to or regularly purchased or rented sexually explicit materials (magazines, videos, books or online pornography)? Y/N
29. Have you been sexual with minors? Y/N
30. Have you spent considerable time and money on strip clubs, adult bookstores and movie houses? Y/N
31. Have you engaged prostitutes and escorts for your sexual needs? Y/N
32. Have you spent considerable time surfing pornography online? Y/N
33. Have you used magazines, videos or online pornography even when there was considerable risk of being caught by family members who would be upset by your behavior? Y/N
34. Have you regularly purchased romantic novels or sexually explicit magazines? Y/N
35. Have stayed in romantic relationships after they became emotionally or physically abusive? Y/N
36. Have you traded sex for money or gifts? Y/N
37. Have you maintained multiple romantic or sexual relationships at the same time? Y/N
38. After sexually acting out, do you sometimes refrain from all sex for a significant period? Y/N
39. Have you regularly engaged in sadomasochistic behavior? Y/N
40. Do you visit sexual bath-houses, sex clubs or adult video/bookstores as part of your regular sexual activity? Y/N
41. Have you engaged in unsafe or "risky" sex even though you knew it could cause you harm? Y/N
42. Have you cruised public restrooms, rest areas or parks looking for sex with strangers? Y/N
43. Do you believe casual or anonymous sex has kept you from having more long-term intimate relationships? Y/N
44. Has your sexual behavior put you at risk for arrest for lewd conduct or public indecency? Y/N
45. Have you been paid for sex? Y/N

If you picked up any new ideas from this test, you just might be addicted!

Be safe

[Member #4186]

One of my recent experiences is, that I've got all sorts of other shit going on in my life so I'm not mongering as much (or at all) as I used to. I've started a new school program, full time, high pressure, and I find that the social outlet of meeting all sorts of new people is really tempting me away from mongering. If I end up with a spare weekend night, maybe even a little tipsy because I was at a social hour, I'm not tempted to go slip off to the monger-zone and get an AMP service. Instead, I'm tempted (in a "what I WANT to do with my time" sort of thing) to get on Facebook and internet-chat with my classmates about some interesting idea that came up; or just get a textbook out and go back over something again because it was cool to me. In particular, I have FRIENDS who don't monger, and they're not UNHAPPY ABOUT LIFE or grumpy like I was. They get me up, instead of my life bringing me down.

For now, this is a solution to my desire to back off from mongering. I'm meeting plenty of younger women, and they spend time with me interacting as though I'm not a jerk. In fact, people, seem to respect me. They like my company. A few think I'm a bit wonky, weird, an older guy hanging out with younger people, but that's OK, I'm game to be the "king of the geeks." It feels like I have friends instead of adversaries. The girls are some of them flighty and difficult to deal with, but instead of them slamming me for the fact that I don't "know how to treat a woman," they instead want my opinion, and like being around me even if they'd never fuck me in a million years. I get the sense, that if or when I actually DO make a pass at one of the ones who's shown some interest, it won't be some kind of occasion for her to be a raving **** to me about how she can manipulate and control me. Instead, it would just be a pair of humans bumbling around like all of us do, and there'd be no bad power-imbalance that drove me to drink, to anger, to hatred of the manipulativeness of women. As I look forward at that possibility, it just seems like natural human clumsiness and wishful thinking on both sides, rather than the fucked up North American model of things which castrates and frustrates men at every turn. It all looks better, at least in my imagination.

This much for now is a wonderful change. I guess I had to get into a forward-looking program, to experience this. Partly, I'm anticipating being more employable, having a better life, more prospects, after I'm done with this degree (Spring 2011). I feel like, when I go to a club, and a girl asks me "so, what do you do?" I don't have to be apologetic. I don't have to MAKE UP something that's impressive, or somehow TWIST what I'm doing to the point that she'll give me the time of day. That means, I'm free to be myself, have my own opinions, because I feel like I deserve the audition.

I remember in my last job, some of the more senior staff were hanging about chatting about some of our ongoing projects. One of the Senior Editors took down a picture of one of the latest authors of ours (it was a publishing house) and pointed out, that she was a very attractive woman. He commented something like, "She's probably married to some doctor or lawyer." He said it with chagrin, annoyance. Like, "... and I'm only a Senior Editor and therefore MY wife has to be uglier than her." Well, I thought at the time, "Gosh, and now *I'M* trapped into being like the Senior Editor, over time, slowly getting to his status." Now, however, I look at my own life and I think, there are CHOICES, opportunities. I can ask Emma out tomorrow. She might say yes. That sounds good. If she says no, or decides she only wants dinner and not fucky-fucky, then I'll still enjoy dinner. That also sounds good from this vantage. I can still ask Caroline out the next day. And it's not UNREASONABLE for me to do these things. I'm not "some Senior Editor who shouldn't think he deserves to be happy," not "some guy who is supposed to accept that his life will be bad."

The whole outlook, from inside me, changed. So far that's a good thing. And, gee what a surprise, the mongering interest shifted along with it.

(And, again, I'll repeat, I don't try to encourage others to do as I'm doing, nor do I judge anyone negatively or positively for his own choice. Plenty of us can monger and do so with little or no negative consequences, or even a preponderance of extremely positive consequences, and they can choose to continue to do so, and I just say "more power to 'em!" I have no aims at changing their behavior, or recommending any new path, for THEM. I'm just saying that my OWN mongering has been something I've wanted to be able to change. And yet, in the past, I've really had very little self-control on that issue, and very little success with alternate programs of action and behavior. I just kept on doing the same old thing, drinking and mongering and spending money I shouldn't have had -- even though if I'd invested it back then I would be poor because of the stocks crash, just like I am now, and so I'm glad I spent it!)

[Verotica]

So God bless the lot of you.

I hope you don't mind hearing from a woman on some of these forums; I tend to speak my mind (at least on paper...er, on the keyboard) and have an opinion or two regarding this subject.

First of all, I am definitely a sex addict - always have been. I've chosen my profession as a provider as a natural consequence of my sexual appetites. But even a "busy" day (which I would consider more than four customers) still leaves me twitchy and wanting. That's why I try to give every one of my clients my all...not only because I love to please men, but because I so very much want to reach that feeling of "completion" that so many of you delicious men seem to take for granted.

Don't get my wrong; I orgasm with every customer, usually squirting several times. But I rarely "climax," as in "Ok, I'm done, let me sleep." It usually takes several hours to get me there, and that's not my usual professional experience.

I always laugh when I hear men wishing they had a nymphomaniac as a girlfriend. I've yet to find one that doesn't "tap out" on me after a few weeks or maybe months. Apparently, there are only so many 3-5 hour sessions any man wants in a week. I inevitably end up frustrated and move on to someone new.

Well, I just wanted to give you guys a little insight into the other half of your hobby. Not that I'm necessarily a "typical" provider. But men aren't the only ones addicted to sex. Some women just make a career, rather than a hobby, out of their predilections.

[Member #4186]

Reads like spam to me. Generally, women affirming themselves to be so goal-directed as the previous post -- counting orgasm; planning on giving "my all" unit by unit -- and generally, women affirming their ability to do such visually pleasing performances as squirting, or expressing the notion of "completeness" in terms of orgasm rather than emotional bond ... are women who think like men. I'm not saying it isn't possible. Just unlikely.

[Member #5605]

These "assessment items" were no doubt designed by pathetic "12-Steppers" of "Sexaholics Anonymous" who have the same broad standard to include EVERYONE as an addict, as much as AA does with THEIR "assessments"! I truly doubt there is ANY clinical research behind ANY of these items/behavior questions!


The Sexual Addiction Screening Test (SAST) is designed to assist in the assessment of sexually compulsive behavior which may indicate the presence of sex addiction. Developed in cooperation with hospitals, treatment programs, private therapists, and community groups, the SAST provides a profile of responses which help to discriminate between addictive and non-addictive behavior. Before starting the assessment we need basic information in order to build your profile.

Please indicate gender:

Male__ Female __
Indicate Orientation:
Heterosexual __ Bi-sexual __ Homosexual __

Please check any of the following which apply:
__I have no concerns about my sexual behavior but am curious how I would score.
__I have no concerns about my sexual behavior but others are concerned.
__I am having problems with my sexual behavior but do not consider myself a "sex addict".
__I know I am a sex addict.
__I have sought therapy because of my sexual problems.

To complete the test, answer each question by selecting yes/no.

1. Were you sexually abused as a child or adolescent? Y/N
2. Did your parents have trouble with sexual behavior? Y/N
3. Do you often find yourself preoccupied with sexual thoughts? Y/N
4. Do you feel that your sexual behavior is not normal? Y/N
5. Do you ever feel bad about your sexual behavior? Yes No
6. Has your sexual behavior ever created problems for you/family? Y/N
7. Have you ever sought help for sexual behavior you did not like? Y/N
8. Has anyone been hurt emotionally due to of your sexual behavior? Y/N
9. Are any of your sexual activities against the law? Y/N
10. Have you made efforts to quit a type of sexual activity and failed? Y/N
11. Do you hide some of your sexual behaviors from others? Y/N
12. Have you attempted to stop some parts of your sexual activity? Y/N
13. Have you felt degraded by your sexual behaviors? Y/N
14. When you have sex, do you feel depressed afterwards? Y/N
15. Do you feel controlled by your sexual desire? Y/N
16. Have important parts of your life (e.g. job, family, friends, leisure) been neglected because you were spending too much time on sex? Y/N
17. Do you ever think your sexual desire is stronger than you are? Y/N
18. Is sex almost all you think about? Y/N
19. Has sex (or fantasies) been a way for you to escape your problems? Y/N
20. Has sex become the most important thing in your life? Y/N
21. Are you in crisis over sexual matters? Y/N
22. Has the Internet created sexual problems for you? Y/N
23. Do you spend too much time online for sexual purposes? Y/N
24. Have you purchased services online for erotic purposes (sites for dating, pornography, fantasy and friend finder)? Y/N
25. Have you used the Internet to make romantic or erotic connections with people online? Y/N
26. Have people in your life been upset about your sexual activities online? Y/N
27. Have you attempted to stop your online sexual behaviors? Y/N
28. Have you subscribed to or regularly purchased or rented sexually explicit materials (magazines, videos, books or online pornography)? Y/N
29. Have you been sexual with minors? Y/N
30. Have you spent considerable time and money on strip clubs, adult bookstores and movie houses? Y/N
31. Have you engaged prostitutes and escorts for your sexual needs? Y/N
32. Have you spent considerable time surfing pornography online? Y/N
33. Have you used magazines, videos or online pornography even when there was considerable risk of being caught by family members who would be upset by your behavior? Y/N
34. Have you regularly purchased romantic novels or sexually explicit magazines? Y/N
35. Have stayed in romantic relationships after they became emotionally or physically abusive? Y/N
36. Have you traded sex for money or gifts? Y/N
37. Have you maintained multiple romantic or sexual relationships at the same time? Y/N
38. After sexually acting out, do you sometimes refrain from all sex for a significant period? Y/N
39. Have you regularly engaged in sadomasochistic behavior? Y/N
40. Do you visit sexual bath-houses, sex clubs or adult video/bookstores as part of your regular sexual activity? Y/N
41. Have you engaged in unsafe or "risky" sex even though you knew it could cause you harm? Y/N
42. Have you cruised public restrooms, rest areas or parks looking for sex with strangers? Y/N
43. Do you believe casual or anonymous sex has kept you from having more long-term intimate relationships? Y/N
44. Has your sexual behavior put you at risk for arrest for lewd conduct or public indecency? Y/N
45. Have you been paid for sex? Y/N

If you picked up any new ideas from this test, you just might be addicted!

Be safe

[Verotica]

Reads like spam to me. Generally, women affirming themselves to be so goal-directed as the previous post.- counting orgasm; planning on giving "my all" unit by unit.- and generally, women affirming their ability to do such visually pleasing performances as squirting, or expressing the notion of "completeness" in terms of orgasm rather than emotional bond. Are women who think like men. I'm not saying it isn't possible. Just unlikely. I know I've been insulted, but not quite sure as to the nature of the affront. I suppose you're calling me a liar, but I'm not sure upon what what you're basing your opinion.

And I'm really don't know what you mean by "spam. " USG is the only place I posted that response, and I didn't write it for any hope of gain. I merely wanted to share with you gentlemen the fact that sex "addiction" is not located on the Y chromosome.

I don't call myself typical or representative of my gender or profession. What I wrote is what I truly feel. Yes, I know my attitude toward sex is more like of a man, but it's no hype or bullshit. Do you think that all providers are really just angling for someone to cuddle up with?

To stay on-thread, I'll just say one more thing about my addiction: instead of letting my obsession with sex interrupt my "real" life, I incorporated it and now make a living out of your hobby. ("I enjoy being a girl. ")

Oh, and my G-spot doesn't know or care whether or not it's "visually pleasing" to you for me to squirt; it's just what happens when I come.

V

[Member #4186]

OK OK, I demur. Sorry if I came across as insulting; it was more defensiveness, than aggression, which I intended to convey. I just felt a bit of worry on the basis of your previous post, and I felt it important to share that worry. The worry was, that the post in question sounded to me like typical "starved-for-attention net-trolling male attempting to sound like horny female" posting (or permutation there-of), which is all too common on these sorts of boards. If your statements were genuine, then I'm sorry I called you out for something you didn't do.

Presuming arguendo that your statements were the truth: I do congratulate you on your evident capacity to move on from a self-daignosed condition and incorporate it into your life in a positive way that allows you to make it a benefit rather than a detriment. I'm sure you know that most of us won't be able to do that. Hot female sex addicts can become providers (given a set of other characteristics and willingnesses etc.); horny male sex addicts can seldom do the same for themselves. Most of us on this thread would LOVE to be able to wave a magic wand and change the world such that we were paid-for-play gigolos with nothing but nubile, beautiful, desperately horny women demanding our attention all day every day. Oh wouldn't it be woeful to be a male sex addict then? :) No, of course not. The world would actually FULFILL rather than DENY our needs.

I recall once on TER, a hot female provider -- call her Brandy --posted something along these lines: "I just had the most wonderful experience. I saw the Goddess. I and a woman with whom I have a deal to provide erotic services (they work together) decided to take a weekend off together, and call our favorite friend. Call him Pablo. Pablo and I and Juliette, we lay about the garden, gave each other massages, engaged in long stimulating foreplay, and finally tweaked each other to amazing, slow orgasms under the beautiful midnight moon. I don't understand why other men can't be as accommodating, giving, and sharing as Pablo and Juliette were. If you men would just stop being so selfish, and stop CARING about your own petty peeny little orgasms, and instead just let things come as they may, then you'd find that you were as close to seeing your God as I was to seeing my Goddess last night. I wish I could find men who would share with me like Pablo."

My response to this pablum was, to call her out at once. She was essentially saying, "if you're physically beautiful like Pablo or Juliette, and Brandy happens to give you the dumb-luck once-in-a-lifetime chance of lying around her expensive garden with her, then you'll be free to relax and not care about getting an orgasm with a hot woman because you'll know that the nut is forthcoming by the end of the evening. Now, presuming you ARE physically beautiful and Brandy happens to call you in to this tryst, she wants you to act nicer. And, oh, by the way, for the rest of you losers who aren't as hot as Pablo? Never mind the fact that you aren't Pablo, just go ahead and act like him anyway. Even if no hot woman EVER calls you, and you don't EVER get to cum, you'll still be thankful that you had the chance to be nice. Just sit around and wait for good things to happen. They happened to Pablo, who is ABSOLUTELY NOTHING LIKE YOU, and therefore they should happen to you, maybe. Even if good things don't happen to come about randomly, then her advice is, still, to just sit around waiting and doing the same thing over and over inactively, and maybe they will later. So, you should wait forever. And not be frustrated about lack of orgasm, in the interim."

What she doesn't GET, is not that her message is false. Her message is fairly true. The essential tenets aren't objectionable: you should relax, give to others, stop caring about selfish needs like the immediate-gratification style of typical male orgasm, and you'll probably have a better experience in life. Yeah, true dat.

What she doesn't GET, is that her message isn't APPLICABLE. Most men on that bulletin board ARE NOT PABLO or JULIETTE. We're here BECAUSE we're desperate. We can't CHOOSE to do without orgasm. Biologically, FACTUALLY, we NEED IT IMMEDIATELY. It'd be nice to learn to be more relaxed about it. But tell a man dying of thirst, "We have better water coming tomorrow. Why don't you wait a bit. Here's a nice chair. Go dilly-dally in the garden."

We here can't just say, "Hey, I'm going to act like Pablo because I know Brandy and Juliette are going to give me a call." They aren't. Pablo, furthermore, probably got laid with Betty the night before Brandy called, or at least, no more than a week previously, I'll bet. Therefore, when Brandy called, he was already well-screwed-out. He'd gotten a nut or two. He wasn't frustrated and angry at women. His balls sagged a bit. He thought of Brandy and Juliette as added spice to an already good life. I think of a chance with Brandy as the only small bit of nourishment I ever experience, the few drops of life-sustenance I can barely scrape up, once every six months or so. I'm the man dying of thirst. Don't deny me whatever water is immediately available, I might not make it.

We aren't so lucky as Pablo. Our looks, or wealth, or height, or "style," is the sort that makes us wait and wait and ... if we're really nice to hot chicks ... wait some more. And never get called. We have to BE PROACTIVE. We can't rely on dumb-butt Brandy to "happen" to decide to make our lives better for free.

It never ceases to amaze me, that women misunderstand this about most men. Even about men who are so bad at getting laid, that we ask one another's advice ON A SEX-ADDICT bulletin board, at a web site devoted to GETTING MONGERING OPPORTUNITIES. We are the blind leading the blind, yet still someone arrives to tell us to just take off the sunglasses and the moonlight will be so pretty. Blind. Moonlight. Duh.

Somehow, the advice given, seems to always be, "Just act like John F. Kennedy, Jr., and everything will be fine if you're John F. Kennedy, Jr." There's no dispensation for the 99.9999999% of us who aren't John F. Kennedy, Jr.

In like manner, your recent post says, "Just realize that women can be sex addicts too, and if you realize that, then all the females who are sex addicts will be free to act the way female sex addicts might choose to act." Jeepers. That applies to us ... HOW?

[Verotica]

In like manner, your recent post says, "Just realize that women can be sex addicts too, and if you realize that, then all the females who are sex addicts will be free to act the way female sex addicts might choose to act." Jeepers. That applies to us ... HOW?First of all, your logic as it applies to my remarks is captious. Yes, I wanted you all to know that there are women sex addicts. But your (men's) acceptance or rejection of that fact has nothing to to do with how I act, or how any woman acts. I don't need your permission, or even understanding, to conduct my life as I choose.

Secondly, you seem to be under the impression that, since I service men all day in my profession, my only function on this site is to somehow be of service to the men. Your implication that my post doesn't necessarily apply to all of the men on this site is correct; however, it does apply to sex addiction, which is what this thread is about, and I know that some men share my frustration at needing several hours of solid sex to to feel "done."

Much like Teabag X posted in an earlier response, I'm merely affirming that "I am a sex addict and that's OK" (from Teabags X's post).