Rants and Stupid shit in Orange County

[Admin]

Thread Starter.

[Mb3333]

Actually, no, I don't. Matter of fact, probably no one but you knows what your comment means. Sorry.

BTW, what DO you mean?Needles have orange tops.

[HookerHunter]

Actually, no, I don't. Matter of fact, probably no one but you knows what your comment means. Sorry.

BTW, what DO you mean?She shoots up, DUH!

[CumSlutLover]

She shoots up, DUH!"DUH"?

Really?

Look, I hate needles. No need to be rude, I mean really now. DUH!

That being said, I saw no needles around nor did she mention them. I did see a meth pipe and she did mention doing that. I am with Steak on this, unless you know for sure, it is just a rumor. I know for sure she smokes meth and, if you read her ads, you can figure that out pretty quickly. Always available 24/7. Sometimes she says she is up all night. States she is the "rock" for her family. As in meth rock. Stay at home mother, but lives out of hotels. Without her kid. Skinny and getting thinner, garbled sentences with little to no meaning, posted 34, count them, 34 ads the other day. One single day! I am not sure who she thinks she is fooling.

Lastly, yeah, you totally nailed it too. Alter boy. Who plays with hookers. Don't be so dim. DUH!

[HookerHunter]

You said you didn't know what the orange cap and needle comment meant, I responded because it was too easy to figure out, then you decided to retaliate with a wall o' text instead of "oh that's what it means".

Don't care about rumors.

Don't care about some hos lifestyle.

I'm here to bang broads and help with questions.

And I'm especially not trying to piss off the admin by making this argumentative, so therefore I am closing this ended the discussion.

If you're going to get easily offended and try and White Knight all these women around here I think you could use a better Hobby.


"DUH"?

Really?

Look, I hate needles. No need to be rude, I mean really now. DUH!

That being said, I saw no needles around nor did she mention them. I did see a meth pipe and she did mention doing that. I am with Steak on this, unless you know for sure, it is just a rumor. I know for sure she smokes meth and, if you read her ads, you can figure that out pretty quickly. Always available 24/7. Sometimes she says she is up all night. States she is the "rock" for her family. As in meth rock. Stay at home mother, but lives out of hotels. Without her kid. Skinny and getting thinner, garbled sentences with little to no meaning, posted 34, count them, 34 ads the other day. One single day! I am not sure who she thinks she is fooling.

Lastly, yeah, you totally nailed it too. Alter boy. Who plays with hookers. Don't be so dim. DUH!

[CumSlutLover]

You said you didn't know what the orange cap and needle comment meant, I responded because it was too easy to figure out, then you decided to retaliate with a wall o' text instead of "oh that's what it means".

Don't care about rumors.

Don't care about some hos lifestyle.

I'm here to bang broads and help with questions.

And I'm especially not trying to piss off the admin by making this argumentative, so therefore I am closing this ended the discussion.

If you're going to get easily offended and try and White Knight all these women around here I think you could use a better Hobby.Are you for real? Don't mean to start an argument but totally troll my question to another user. And AFTER that user already responded? GTFOH with that moronic stuff. And to respond to my response with complete BS like I stand by my response? Grow up.

[MacNCheese]

Let's plan to carpool either Sat or Sunday, then haul ass down I-15 to Tijuana for some serious partying that night.

Mar 28-29: March ARB, Calif. .

"March Field Air and Space Expo: Thunder Over the Empire".FYI, event postponed due to coronavirus.

[Captain Solo]

Hi Mac,

Thanks for mentioning it.

There are no announcement from US Airforce, but I found an article in the Press Enterprise, a local newspaper in Riverside:

https://www.pe.com/2020/03/11/concern-over-coronavirus-postpones-popular-march-air-reserve-base-air-show/


FYI, event postponed due to coronavirus.

[WhoreMaster 91]

The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised.

[Captain Solo]

Mexico was considering limiting the flow cross San Ysidro border from the North, but they have not decided yet. Health officials said any containment efforts may last up to a year. About 30,000 people cross the border everyday to go to work in San Diego. What will they do?

Schools in Mexico will close for 1-month early Easter vacation starting end of March. I suspect a lot of CoronaVirus cases are not diagnosed or reported in Mexico. With the close living conditions in Mexico it will spread widely just like in Italy. Then mexico will close the border. You can forget about your sweethearts in La Zona for a few months, even up to a year. OUCH!


The way things are going I wouldn't be surprised.

[Jack926]

For next 30 days. I wonder who will close or who will continue to hobby.

[Lift Her Up]

For next 30 days. I wonder who will close or who will continue to hobby.FWIW, my last "visit" was 2/26, and at the time I wasn't totally sure it was a good idea. On 3/12 I had a chance to see someone, but passed. Retired, I now rarely go out, and when I do I alcohol my hands after touching hard surfaces, and wash my hands when I get home. For now, I'm holding off on our common interest. But, I don't know how long I'll persist. I've typically done it about twice a month. I love being able to throb in that warm slippery place that's both firm and soft at the same time, but even more what I crave is having someone treat the sexual part of me as something that's welcomed. That welcoming feeling is really at the core of what I need, something that hasn't happened at home for decades. The extra plus is being able to touch these wonderful women the way the want to be touched, helping them O when they want it.

Good luck everyone, and thank you to all the contributors here who've helped make my life better.

Lift Her Up.

[Jack926]

FWIW, my last "visit" was 2/26, and at the time I wasn't totally sure it was a good idea. On 3/12 I had a chance to see someone, but passed. Retired, I now rarely go out, and when I do I alcohol my hands after touching hard surfaces, and wash my hands when I get home. For now, I'm holding off on our common interest. But, I don't know how long I'll persist. I've typically done it about twice a month. I love being able to throb in that warm slippery place that's both firm and soft at the same time, but even more what I crave is having someone treat the sexual part of me as something that's welcomed. That welcoming feeling is really at the core of what I need, something that hasn't happened at home for decades. The extra plus is being able to touch these wonderful women the way the want to be touched, helping them O when they want it.

Good luck everyone, and thank you to all the contributors here who've helped make my life better.

Lift Her Up.Your post was written as I have typed it except that my last visit was 2/28 and I was really nervous visiting that day. Everything is same for me except that I used to visit 5-6 times a month.

Really liked this part on above: "I love being able to throb in that warm slippery place that's both firm and soft at the same time, but even more what I crave is having someone treat the sexual part of me as something that's welcomed. That welcoming feeling is really at the core of what I need, something that hasn't happened at home for decades. The extra plus is being able to touch these wonderful women the way the want to be touched, helping them O when they want it."

[Humyiy]

Any hobbyist over 50, should take time off. This covid19 is serious. Media keeps touting "mortality rate" as 3 to 5%, but they are downplaying the ICU admission rate of around 20%! And that is regardless of age. If you're 50 or older, or around there, you DO NOT WANT TO BE INTUBATED! Especially with hospitals being overcrowded, that would be the worst thing to ever happen. If you're 20 or 30-something you'll probably have the dry cough and feel weak, but resolve in 5 - 7 days. Still sucks, feeling like crap. Once people start getting immunity, the risk will go way down and numbers will go down. Stay safe, avoid any contact with anyone and this will resolve in 2 to 3 weeks hopefully. If it doesn't everybody's F'd.


FWIW, my last "visit" was 2/26, and at the time I wasn't totally sure it was a good idea. On 3/12 I had a chance to see someone, but passed. Retired, I now rarely go out, and when I do I alcohol my hands after touching hard surfaces, and wash my hands when I get home. For now, I'm holding off on our common interest. But, I don't know how long I'll persist. I've typically done it about twice a month. I love being able to throb in that warm slippery place that's both firm and soft at the same time, but even more what I crave is having someone treat the sexual part of me as something that's welcomed. That welcoming feeling is really at the core of what I need, something that hasn't happened at home for decades. The extra plus is being able to touch these wonderful women the way the want to be touched, helping them O when they want it.

Good luck everyone, and thank you to all the contributors here who've helped make my life better.

Lift Her Up.

[JacobsLadder69]

Any hobbyist over 50, should take time off. This covid19 is serious. Media keeps touting "mortality rate" as 3 to 5%, but they are downplaying the ICU admission rate of around 20%! And that is regardless of age. If you're 50 or older, or around there, you DO NOT WANT TO BE INTUBATED! Especially with hospitals being overcrowded, that would be the worst thing to ever happen. If you're 20 or 30-something you'll probably have the dry cough and feel weak, but resolve in 5 - 7 days. Still sucks, feeling like crap. Once people start getting immunity, the risk will go way down and numbers will go down. Stay safe, avoid any contact with anyone and this will resolve in 2 to 3 weeks hopefully. If it doesn't everybody's F'd.It doesn't matter your age- everybody should take a break simply because regardless of how sick you may or may not get, you become a carrier and can infect others. The person (s) you infect could be more likely to succumb if they are older it have compromised immune systems.

[Dildo Baggens]

Good advice, however it will take more than 2-3 weeks if you look at the mathematical modeling. Never the less, older mongers should stay clear and live vicariously through the " youngsters " on this site for a awhile.

Even though I'm in good health and have no chronic conditions, I don't want to take any chances at my age. When I go out and about, I bring with me, at all times, a bleach-water (25 ml per liter) mixture soaked cloth rag at my side. I wipe down any surface I may come in contact with and have a mask handy when in line at the store. It's cheap and easy. There's just a bit of a learning curve. You know, kinda like putting on a "Hat" before you dance!

Baggens.


Any hobbyist over 50, should take time off. This covid19 is serious. Media keeps touting "mortality rate" as 3 to 5%, but they are downplaying the ICU admission rate of around 20%! And that is regardless of age. If you're 50 or older, or around there, you DO NOT WANT TO BE INTUBATED! Especially with hospitals being overcrowded, that would be the worst thing to ever happen. If you're 20 or 30-something you'll probably have the dry cough and feel weak, but resolve in 5 - 7 days. Still sucks, feeling like crap. Once people start getting immunity, the risk will go way down and numbers will go down. Stay safe, avoid any contact with anyone and this will resolve in 2 to 3 weeks hopefully. If it doesn't everybody's F'd.

[Lift Her Up]

When I go out and about, I bring with me, at all times, a bleach-water (25 ml per liter) mixture soaked cloth rag at my side. Hi DB, just to be sure we all understand you correclty, you mean 1 part bleach to 40 parts water, not 1 to 4, right?

Thanks also for all of your many informative posts, also uplifting.

Lift Her Up.

[Captain Solo]

Baggen.

The situation in Italy and Spain, where the CoVid19 spread quickly and killed off thousands of people in a a week, is very frightening. There is no good projection how much worse it will get, also with the second and third waves of infection returning in China. Besides the health and death issues, looks like severe damages to all industries in global economies are coming and will have prolonged effects.

A guy in ISG, DramaFree, went to Mexico, picked up the virus, visited his parents in Las Vegas and quickly pass it on to his parents. They are all sick. He has most CoVid19 symptoms.

Damn good idea about the washcloth. Will have a soaked washcloth in my hand when I go out.

Have to wipe down the car first after shopping food a few times and driving it.


Good advice, however it will take more than 2-3 weeks if you look at the mathematical modeling. Never the less, older mongers should stay clear and live vicariously through the " youngsters " on this site for a awhile.

Even though I'm in good health and have no chronic conditions, I don't want to take any chances at my age. When I go out and about, I bring with me, at all times, a bleach-water (25 ml per liter) mixture soaked cloth rag at my side. I wipe down any surface I may come in contact with and have a mask handy when in line at the store. It's cheap and easy. There's just a bit of a learning curve. You know, kinda like putting on a "Hat" before you dance!

Baggens.

[Captain Solo]

DramaFree in ISG went in HK 2 weeks ago, afterwards immediately got hard coughing, weak health, loss of taste and smell, most CoVid19 symptoms. He visited his parents in Las Vegas and quickly passed it on to them, same symptoms. This virus infects very quickly and widely.

Sat March 7, I was worried about the pandemic, but a noob wanted to go, so another wingman and I went. We were all over La Zona, in HK, Chicago, Chevelas, Tropical, eating at the school girls' mariscos cart and HK tacos stand. The noob was DFKing a Chicago girl for half hour before doing a long and strong session with her. On the way back we decided to stay off TJ a few weeks waiting to see how CoVid19 develops in TJ. It's been over 2 weeks. All 3 of us have no symptoms. It's proof we did not pick up anything in TJ.

Now we are laying low, making sure we will not pick up the virus in SoCal so we can live many more years, waiting for the good news when the virus is under control so we can come back to TJ to warm the hearts of sweet, pretty chicas.

[Ump1969]

Baggen.

The situation in Italy and Spain, where the CoVid19 spread quickly and killed off thousands of people in a a week, is very frightening. There is no good projection how much worse it will get, also with the second and third waves of infection returning in China. Besides the health and death issues, looks like severe damages to all industries in global economies are coming and will have prolonged effects.

A guy in ISG, DramaFree, went to Mexico, picked up the virus, visited his parents in Las Vegas and quickly pass it on to his parents. They are all sick. He has most CoVid19 symptoms.

Damn good idea about the washcloth. Will have a soaked washcloth in my hand when I go out.

Have to wipe down the car first after shopping food a few times and driving it.I should get both you and Captain Solo to relate your experiences on the Chicago page. I tried merely to advise and got attacked.

[Captain Solo]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/world/coronavirus-updates-maps.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200324&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=82224936&segment_id=22735&user_id=0a233880530bbdf528594e1bf1f8295e

New York's case count is doubling every three days, the governor says.

Image: Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York speaking at the Javits Center in Manhattan on Monday. Credit. Demetrius Freeman for The New York Times.

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who last week adopted a friendly tone toward President Trump, got as close as he has to chastising the federal government, which has so far sent 400 ventilators to New York City.

"You want a pat on the back for sending 400 ventilators," Mr. Cuomo said. "What are we going to do with 400 ventilators when we need 30,000 ventilators? You're missing the magnitude of the problem, and the problem is defined by the magnitude. ".

Mr. Cuomo, speaking at the Javits Center in Manhattan, which the Army Corps is retrofitting into a 1,000-bed emergency hospital, said the rate of new coronavirus infections in New York is doubling about every three days.

"We haven't flattened the curve. And the curve is actually increasing," he said. The governor, appearing in front of piles of medical supplies, spoke in a far more sober tone and delivered notably bleaker news than he has in previous days.

The peak of infection in New York could come as soon as two to three weeks, far earlier than previously anticipated, Mr. Cuomo said, which would put even bigger strain on the health care system than officials had feared.

"The apex is higher than we thought and the apex is sooner than we thought," Mr. Cuomo said. "That is a bad combination of facts. ".

The governor said the state now projects that it may need as many as 140,000 hospital beds to house virus patients, up from the 110,000 projected a few days ago. As of now, only 53,000 are available. Up to 40,000 intensive-care beds could be needed. "Those are troubling and astronomical numbers," he said.

As of Tuesday morning, New York State had 25,665 cases, with at least 157 deaths. The state now accounts for nearly 7 percent of global cases tallied by The New York Times.

Some 13 percent of people who have tested positive were hospitalized as of Tuesday with nearly a quarter of those hospitalized in intensive care.

"That's the problem," Mr. Cuomo said. "As the number of cases go up, the number of people in hospital beds goes up, the number of people who need an I. C. you. Bed and a ventilator goes up, and we cannot address that increasing curve. "

In New York City alone, there have been around 15,000 cases.

Mr. Cuomo said that New York was a harbinger for the rest of the country.

"Look at us today," he warned. "Where we are today, you will be in four weeks or five weeks or six weeks. We are your future. "

[Dildo Baggens]

That is more than enough. CDC says 1/3 cup per gallon of water.


Hi DB, just to be sure we all understand you correclty, you mean 1 part bleach to 40 parts water, not 1 to 4, right?

Thanks also for all of your many informative posts, also uplifting.

Lift Her Up.

[Ump1969]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/world/coronavirus-updates-maps.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200324&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=82224936&segment_id=22735&user_id=0a233880530bbdf528594e1bf1f8295e

New York's case count is doubling every three days, the governor says.

Image: Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo of New York speaking at the Javits Center in Manhattan on Monday. Credit. Demetrius Freeman for The New York Times.

Gov. Andrew M. Cuomo, who last week adopted a friendly tone toward President Trump, got as close as he has to chastising the federal government, which has so far sent 400 ventilators to New York City.

"You want a pat on the back for sending 400 ventilators," Mr. Cuomo said. "What are we going to do with 400 ventilators when we need 30,000 ventilators? You're missing the magnitude of the problem, and the problem is defined by the magnitude. ".

Mr. Cuomo, speaking at the Javits Center in Manhattan, which the Army Corps is retrofitting into a 1,000-bed emergency hospital, said the rate of new coronavirus infections in New York is doubling about every three days.

"We haven't flattened the curve. And the curve is actually increasing," he said. The governor, appearing in front of piles of medical supplies, spoke in a far more sober tone and delivered notably bleaker news than he has in previous days.

The peak of infection in New York could come as soon as two to three weeks, far earlier than previously anticipated, Mr. Cuomo said, which would put even bigger strain on the health care system than officials had feared.

"The apex is higher than we thought and the apex is sooner than we thought," Mr. Cuomo said. "That is a bad combination of facts. ".

The governor said the state now projects that it may need as many as 140,000 hospital beds to house virus patients, up from the 110,000 projected a few days ago. As of now, only 53,000 are available. Up to 40,000 intensive-care beds could be needed. "Those are troubling and astronomical numbers," he said.

As of Tuesday morning, New York State had 25,665 cases, with at least 157 deaths. The state now accounts for nearly 7 percent of global cases tallied by The New York Times.

Some 13 percent of people who have tested positive were hospitalized as of Tuesday with nearly a quarter of those hospitalized in intensive care.

"That's the problem," Mr. Cuomo said. "As the number of cases go up, the number of people in hospital beds goes up, the number of people who need an I. C. you. Bed and a ventilator goes up, and we cannot address that increasing curve. "

In New York City alone, there have been around 15,000 cases.

Mr. Cuomo said that New York was a harbinger for the rest of the country.

"Look at us today," he warned. "Where we are today, you will be in four weeks or five weeks or six weeks. We are your future. "As I stated previously, I normally post in Chicago. I was attacked for stirring up a panic. Let's forget the news for a moment and use common sense. Under the best of circumstances, we have a risky habit. On the Chicago board, another monger attacked me, asking if street girls were more susceptible to the virus than anyone else. Well, actually, yes they are. They use illicit drugs that damage immune systems. They will take any customer who has cash, even if he is sick. They often live in unhealthy conditions. Anyone ever smelling them knows many don't have the best hygiene practices. Underlying conditions? I have known many girls that have been diabetic, as I am. How about high blood pressure, which can be just as active in younger people with poor diets as older people? How about mongers? Many believe that merely by being younger, the most they will get is a few days of uncomfortable flu? Are all mongers perfectly healthy? The rate of diabetes is skyrocketing in this country due to sugary and salty snacks combined with lack of exercise. I have met few mongers, but some made my fat body look like a male model. How about high blood pressure and other issues? So some of the mongers might be even more susceptible to the virus than the girls. Am I stirring up panic? Define "stirring up panic". Have I said anything untrue? Have I said anything that no one needs to know? Am I merely trying to scare the hell out of mongers for my own entertainment? Do what you want guys. I want pussy as much as anyone else. And I can't tell anyone else what to do. If the truth doesn't worry you, good for you. Go for it. Fuck til you're blue in the face. It's not worth risking my life for me, so I can wait awhile.

[BuddhaHead]

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/24/world/coronavirus-updates-maps.html?campaign_id=60&emc=edit_na_20200324&instance_id=0&nl=breaking-news&ref=cta&regi_id=82224936&segment_id=22735&user_id=0a233880530bbdf528594e1bf1f8295e
"You want a pat on the back for sending 400 ventilators," Mr. Cuomo said. "What are we going to do with 400 ventilators when we need 30,000 ventilators? You're missing the magnitude of the problem, and the problem is defined by the magnitude. ".

"The apex is higher than we thought and the apex is sooner than we thought," Mr. Cuomo said. "That is a bad combination of facts. ".

"Look at us today," he warned. "Where we are today, you will be in four weeks or five weeks or six weeks. We are your future. "When the going gets tough is when the real leaders shine. Cuomo is not demonstrating leadership by blaming the feds, whining about the magnitude of the problem, then being the messenger of bad things to come for the rest of the country. Is that someone you want to lead us out of this?

[Captain Solo]

Ump,

The whole world is worried stiff about the damages of CoVid19, but there will always be irrational guys who pursue pleasures regardless how grave the risks.

I don't do any mongering or know anyone in Chicago, so have no good reasons to post there. But you can research the news and post pertinent content there.

There are ugly guys who never post any helpful or worthwhile infos and analyses, but would attack other posters out of hate, envy and jealousy. Readers can see through their stupid motivations and treat them accordingly. You can report the attacks.




As I stated previously, I normally post in Chicago. I was attacked for stirring up a panic. Let's forget the news for a moment and use common sense. Under the best of circumstances, we have a risky habit. On the Chicago board, another monger attacked me, asking if street girls were more susceptible to the virus than anyone else. Well, actually, yes they are. They use illicit drugs that damage immune systems. They will take any customer who has cash, even if he is sick. They often live in unhealthy conditions. Anyone ever smelling them knows many don't have the best hygiene practices. Underlying conditions? I have known many girls that have been diabetic, as I am. How about high blood pressure, which can be just as active in younger people with poor diets as older people? How about mongers? Many believe that merely by being younger, the most they will get is a few days of uncomfortable flu? Are all mongers perfectly healthy? The rate of diabetes is skyrocketing in this country due to sugary and salty snacks combined with lack of exercise. I have met few mongers, but some made my fat body look like a male model. How about high blood pressure and other issues? So some of the mongers might be even more susceptible to the virus than the girls. Am I stirring up panic? Define "stirring up panic". Have I said anything untrue? Have I said anything that no one needs to know? Am I merely trying to scare the hell out of mongers for my own entertainment? Do what you want guys. I want pussy as much as anyone else. And I can't tell anyone else what to do. If the truth doesn't worry you, good for you. Go for it. Fuck til you're blue in the face. It's not worth risking my life for me, so I can wait awhile.

[Captain Solo]

https://www.borderreport.com/regions/california/city-of-tijuana-finally-goes-on-coronavirus-lockdown/

City of Tijuana 'finally' goes on coronavirus lockdown.

By: Salvador Rivera Posted: Mar 24,2020 / 05:54 PM GMT-0600 / Updated: Mar 24,2020 / 05:54 PM GMT-0600.

TIJUANA (Border Report) — With its northern neighbor, California, already on lockdown, the City of Tijuana had remained status quo and had refused to officially lock down the city to prevent the spread of the coronavirus. Until today.

The city just announced that bars, movie theaters, churches, gyms and other gathering places throughout Tijuana be closed.

City officials had been hesitant due to the fact only two coronavirus cases had been reported in previous weeks. Both cases were called "imported" because the two people who tested positive had traveled to the United States recently.

But with more and more people testing positive for Covid-19, the city finally put out the order.

The list also includes funeral homes, casinos and museums.

People are saying it "was about time" the city enacted such measures in accordance with the World Health Organization.

Tijuana's population is close to 2 million people and sits directly south of the border from San Diego.

[Captain Solo]

Budhha.

Looks like NY will get really fucked up with hundreds thousands infected and have only 3,000 beds with 400 respirators. Cuomo knows he will get not much more support from Trump regardless how much beetching he's doing, but he has to show his constituency that he's working and trying hard. If not he will not get reelected.

Technically Cuomo can claim the virus came from outside his state border, so it's not his problem but a federal one. Also the US government has FEMA as a central agency to support any state with disasters, so states don't have to duplicate efforts.

Cuomo can cry and scream, but it looks pretty clear now that the US responses to this virus will be slower and lighter than those of China.


When the going gets tough is when the real leaders shine. Cuomo is not demonstrating leadership by blaming the feds, whining about the magnitude of the problem, then being the messenger of bad things to come for the rest of the country. Is that someone you want to lead us out of this?

[Captain Solo]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/5-reasons-why-the-us-spread-of-covid-19-could-be-worse-than-italy-2020-03-30?mod=nextup_bomw

5 reasons why the USA Spread of COVID-19 could be worse than Italy.

Published: March 30,2020 at 3:24 pm ET By Tomi Kilgore.

Infection growth likely to start slowing late-April before 'second wave' hits central USA Cities; social distancing timeline likely to be pushed past April 30, Morgan Stanley says.

The spread of COVID-19 in the USA Is accelerating and mortality is increasing exponentially, putting the USA On a potentially worse trajectory than Italy, according to an analysis by Morgan Stanley.

Biotechnology analyst Matthew Harrison said he expects President Donald Trump will have to extend the social distancing timeline again, past April 30. His new forecast for the USA Calls for a peak of approximately 570,000 cases in about 20 days. That's roughly triple the prior forecast of about 200,000 cases at the peak. Read MarketWatch's coronavirus update.

Also read: Trump extends national social-distancing guidelines through April 30.

His worry is that while the first wave of infection growth could start slowing in late April, the USA Will be hit with a "second wave" of growth, emanating from the central regions.

"Importantly, this new forecast continues to assume more social distancing and a continued rapid increase in testing," Harrison wrote in a note to clients. "We would highlight that the biggest risk to this forecast is that while we have reasonable confidence the East and West coasts will reach peak cases in the next 2-3 weeks, the interior of the country is now exhibiting signs of new outbreaks. ".

He said there is also risk that the second wave delays the USA Peak, or causes "recontamination" of the coastal cities.

"Current USA Trends are concerning, suggesting a course potentially worse than Italy," Harrison wrote in a note to clients. "We highlight five dynamics to watch which we believe suggest the USA Is facing a broad and accelerating outbreak. ".

1) USA Cases are growing the fastest.

"The USA Now has the largest number of cases among all countries, while the growth rate of USA Cases is now the highest among all countries we follow. And is accelerating faster than Italy when adjusted for the start of the respective outbreaks. ".

2) USA Mortality is not slowing despite social distancing.

"Mortality is increasing at an exponential rate in the USA At a slightly lower slope than Italy prior to its lockdown. While mortality will lag new cases, other countries have been able to slow from exponential growth after lockdowns. ".

3) New cases are growing faster than testing capacity.

"Rates of testing positivity continue to trend higher across the USA As testing rates lag other countries and cases are growing faster than tests, suggesting the USA Continues to lack enough testing capacity. ".

4) New 'hot spots' are exhibiting growth above other regions.

"Case rates for emerging USA 'hot spots' are growing at rates faster than all countries or USA States. This suggests new USA Cases could continue to accelerate. ".

The new hot spots include Louisiana, Michigan and Illinois, as well as New York and Florida.

5) Social-distancing measures remain not as strict as other countries.

"The USA Has more limited quarantine measures compared to Italy or China. ".

Italy is exhibiting stabilization, and is now likely to reach a peak about 15 days after China. That represents a time to peak that is 2-times that of China and 3-times that of South Korea.

"With the USA Potentially trending worse than Italy, we would expect more social distancing to reduce the risk of tracking significantly worse than Italy. ".

Data suggests faster spreading in the USA, with the "reproduction number" of the USA At 2. 44 higher than Italy at 1. 48, while the doubling time of cases in the USA Of about 3. 7 days is lower than Italy's at 10 days, "pointing to a significantly faster elevation of case numbers in the USA Than Italy. ".

[Captain Solo]

I am looking for signs that the stock market has bottomed out to buy some stock.

The Market Watch site theorizes that the bottom is near when the major indexes move up and close at or near the top of the day's range 4 days in a row. Sounds pretty logical to me.

A wingman mentioned buying Carnival stock after the Gran Princess was repeatedly denied docking in Asia, and the stock was tanking, lost 70%. Like Boeing, CCL went down went down very low but their balance sheets are shit. We are looking at a very tough economic time in the next few years. Pleasure stocks like CCL may go bankrupt; Boeing is a critical national asset, government would never let it go bankrupt. But its balance sheet is such shit now that it would have to load down with a lot of debts to survive, then needs 5 to 7 years to dig itself out of its mess. AVOCO, the plane leasing co in Ireland, today just canceled order for 70 737 MAX worth $11 billions. Damn. Boeing engineers and managers really fucked up the company by Jerry rigging the 737 MAX.

There is not much sex and girls to talk about in this lock down time. So it would be nice to hear any sexy ideas how to make money.

[Incognito22]

I am looking for signs that the stock market has bottomed out to buy some stock.

The Market Watch site theorizes that the bottom is near when the major indexes move up and close at or near the top of the day's range 4 days in a row. Sounds pretty logical to M.D.

There is not much sex and girls to talk about in this lock down time. So it would be nice to hear any sexy ideas how to make money.If you are trying to game sticks for fast money, Google 'dead cat bounce' a lot of dead cats are bouncing right now.

If you are in it for the long haul. Look into automated diversified accounts like Schwab intelligent portfolios, especially if you have over 50 k (non-retitement) to invest. Schwab will do automatic tax loss harvesting.

Google, tax loss harvesting. Basically if a stock you own goes down in value, and you sell it following specific rules you can claim up to $3,000 a year in tax deductions, you can roll over anything over $3 k a year into future years. Better still it hides your gains when you pull money out. Last year I pulled a big chunk out for a large purchase, and of course the market has been doing great for 2+years so I expected to get hammered on capital gains. Thanks to tax loss harvesting the 30 k+ profit I had earned on that money was hidden from the IRS, because the shares had been bought and sold every time the market dipped, then recovered I actually only had to pay taxes on 3 k of those market gains.

My golden rule, find out how the billionaire class cheats, then copy them.

Personally I have pulled my non-retirement out of the market; and into the highest interest savings I could find. Remember even if you are only earning 1. 5%. With the market down 20%. You are actually up 21.5%.

I am expecting huge political and market instability with the next election, and I have zero confidence our Dotard in chief could lead us out of a well lit downhilll 100' tunnel.

[Captain Solo]

Incognito.

You are very well-informed about the sex as well as the stock market. You gave me some very good ideas here.

There were lots of dead cat bounces in the market in March. With the tanking global economy. Lots of them will drop dead then bounce again.

I use Fidelity for a number of accounts. Their web site has lots of market and stock info plus the ease to move from stock into funds when I am not playing.

Glad to hear from you. Please give the bros headsups with any worthwhile news about the market moves.


If you are trying to game sticks for fast money, Google 'dead cat bounce' a lot of dead cats are bouncing right now.

If you are in it for the long haul. Look into automated diversified accounts like Schwab intelligent portfolios, especially if you have over 50 k (non-retitement) to invest. Schwab will do automatic tax loss harvesting.

Google, tax loss harvesting. Basically if a stock you own goes down in value, and you sell it following specific rules you can claim up to $3,000 a year in tax deductions, you can roll over anything over $3 k a year into future years. Better still it hides your gains when you pull money out. Last year I pulled a big chunk out for a large purchase, and of course the market has been doing great for 2+years so I expected to get hammered on capital gains. Thanks to tax loss harvesting the 30 k+ profit I had earned on that money was hidden from the IRS, because the shares had been bought and sold every time the market dipped, then recovered I actually only had to pay taxes on 3 k of those market gains.

My golden rule, find out how the billionaire class cheats, then copy them.

Personally I have pulled my non-retirement out of the market; and into the highest interest savings I could find. Remember even if you are only earning 1. 5%. With the market down 20%. You are actually up 21.5%.

I am expecting huge political and market instability with the next election, and I have zero confidence our Dotard in chief could lead us out of a well lit downhilll 100' tunnel.

[Oswalt]

Instead of waiting two or three years for CCL or BA to recover, if at all in CCL case, go with something you know and is in demand even in this environment. NFLX. Worldwide demand. Earnings 4/21. Keep turning out content like Tiger King to keep the masses happy. If its too pricey for you look into the options market.


I am looking for signs that the stock market has bottomed out to buy some stock.

The Market Watch site theorizes that the bottom is near when the major indexes move up and close at or near the top of the day's range 4 days in a row. Sounds pretty logical to me.

A wingman mentioned buying Carnival stock after the Gran Princess was repeatedly denied docking in Asia, and the stock was tanking, lost 70%. Like Boeing, CCL went down went down very low but their balance sheets are shit. We are looking at a very tough economic time in the next few years. Pleasure stocks like CCL may go bankrupt; Boeing is a critical national asset, government would never let it go bankrupt. But its balance sheet is such shit now that it would have to load down with a lot of debts to survive, then needs 5 to 7 years to dig itself out of its mess. AVOCO, the plane leasing co in Ireland, today just canceled order for 70 737 MAX worth $11 billions. Damn. Boeing engineers and managers really fucked up the company by Jerry rigging the 737 MAX.

There is not much sex and girls to talk about in this lock down time. So it would be nice to hear any sexy ideas how to make money.

[Captain Solo]

NETFLIX is in the leisure industry. In a bad economy, people will cancel it.

It has poor growth and very poor balance sheet. Analysts rank it very bearish.


Instead of waiting two or three years for CCL or BA to recover, if at all in CCL case, go with something you know and is in demand even in this environment. NFLX. Worldwide demand. Earnings 4/21. Keep turning out content like Tiger King to keep the masses happy. If its too pricey for you look into the options market.

[RiskA]

Be careful re tax loss harvesting; pretty sure if you sell then buy the SAME stock within a 30-day period, it's considered a "wash" sale or transaction that does not qualify for a change in basis. So you need to buy DIFFERENT beat down stocks, but you're probably rebalancing your portfolio anyway. You can buy some similar stock, and buy back your original after the period while harvesting another stock. Not sure if it's "30" days or a different period but know it's a rule. If you use a licensed broker they'll know, if DIY you should Google tax was sales to see how it applies in your situation.

[Captain Solo]

Stocks keep going up in the last 4 days. Analysts said the volume is mostly small-time individual investors / traders who are usually wrong.

S&P 500 went up about 15% last 4 days but volumes kept decreasing to very low. It's running out of breath and has to come down to another bottom.

[BuddhaHead]

Stocks keep going up in the last 4 days. Analysts said the volume is mostly small-time individual investors / traders who are usually wrong.

S&P 500 went up about 15% last 4 days but volumes kept decreasing to very low. It's running out of breath and has to come down to another bottom."Analysts" and other "experts" on TV don't know what they're talking about. Small time investors cannot move the market. The market has been going up even though the US & global economies are going down the tubes because the Fed is injecting 100's of billions of $ into the market. This is what kept the market going up for 10 years following the 2008 crash. The Dow goes up / down 1000 points because of "robo trading" used by the big banks. The small time investors have no chance if they're trying to "time the market" (read Michael Lewis' book "Flash Boys".

[Captain Solo]

The large volume sell off at the end of March was done by program traders.

The market rise lately was done in small volumes, likely short squeeze and small time trader feeling bullish. Most stocks are down today.


"Analysts" and other "experts" on TV don't know what they're talking about. Small time investors cannot move the market. The market has been going up even though the US & global economies are going down the tubes because the Fed is injecting 100's of billions of $ into the market. This is what kept the market going up for 10 years following the 2008 crash. The Dow goes up / down 1000 points because of "robo trading" used by the big banks. The small time investors have no chance if they're trying to "time the market" (read Michael Lewis' book "Flash Boys".

[Lift Her Up]

I've recently read in the San Gabriel section and elsewhere on Orange County threads the desperation not only for sex but for haircuts. In that vein, I noticed this morning that the barber shop on the Orange Circle in Orange, southwest corner, was open, strange to say.

Lift Her Up.

[Captain Solo]

https://nypost.com/2020/04/17/el-chapos-daughter-and-mexican-cartels-distribute-coronavirus-relief/

El Chapo's daughter, Mexican cartels distribute coronavirus aid packages.

By Vincent Barone April 17,2020.

12:24 am.

Employees of the clothing brand "El Chapo 701", fill boxes with products to be handed out to elderly people as part of a campaign to help cash-strapped elderly people.

"Chapo's provisions" to the rescue.

A daughter of the notorious drug kingpin Joaquin "El Chapo" Guzman and Mexican cartels are distributing coronavirus aid packages as the number of confirmed COVID-19 cases begin to soar in the country.

Alejandrina Guzman is using her company, El Chapo 701, to pack and deliver care boxes full of food, masks, hand soaps and other supplies, dubbed Chapo's provisions, around Guadalajara.

The parcels are labeled with El Chapo's image — and so are the medical-style facemasks the company's employees wear as they pack and deliver the goods.

The company, which Guzman uses to legally sell clothing and liquor bearing the drug lord's likeness, has been posting photo and video updates on production and deliveries on its Facebook page.

"We are working and contributing. A great pleasure to visit your homes and give you these Chapo handouts," said a post on the company's Facebook page showing Alejandrina, wearing a black facemask with Chapo's face, handing out parcels.

The inspiration for the brand name El Chapo 701 stems from a 2009 Forbes listing that ranked him the 701st richest person in the world with an estimated net worth of $1 billion.

Mexico his heading into a difficult, deep recession with 486 coronavirus deaths reported along with 6,300 confirmed cases — up from roughly 1,200 cases at the beginning of the month.

As cases mount, infamously violent Mexican cartels have joined in the aid efforts, posting their own photos to social media showing gang members distributing relief. The cartels are known to work to ingratiate themselves with the poor residents living where they base their bloody operations.

Guzman is serving time in a Colorado 'Supermax' prison.

[Captain Solo]

One of my wingmen is an attorney who litigates medical malpractice and personal injuries cases. He seems to have a good grasp of medical issues.

He said CoVid-19 has mutated into more than 30 mutations so far, and will mutate into a very large number. It's impossible to vaccinate against all hundreds or thousands of mutations of this virus. He argues that eventually every one in the world will be infected sooner or later. There are no cures for the virus, only treating symptoms and assisting them with ventilators.

He said government social distance enforcement only aim to flatten out the infection and death curves, pushing infection and death incidents out to the future, may be indefinitely, just so that hospitals don't run out of beds and doctors. US death rate is 55.383 over 330 mil population or about 1 in 6,000 to date. There will be more death in May and death rate will be higher.

China claims 4,642 death to date with a population of 1. 52 bil or 1 death per 327,000, 50 times lower than US, and much much lower than Italy, Spain, France, WTF? This figure is not credible, even ridiculous, unless China is full of supermen and superwomen hehe.

I have been going to stores, food, markets, banks ect a few times every week since the lock down. Have not got infected yet. Even if I get infected I belong to the 5,999 population who will not die. So if La Zona opens back up, a few trips to party with the chicas won't infect or kill anyone. The chicas may even have anti bodies they can donate via DFKs.

Probability of contracting and dying with this virus is very low. Perhaps we should not be so scared. My wingman is a very careful guy. So I will wait for him.

[Hornilius69]

Southeast Asia, you can still monger there. Just need to quarantine for 14 days first.

[Captain Solo]

It's not worth staying in quarantine 14 days to screw a few girls.

Will have to wait until the virus is completely eradicated, if ever. CoVid-19 seems far more infectious than the SARS virus. It may take months or years.

CoVid-19 is destroying liberty and livelihoods of billion people and causing far more wide-spread and long-lasting damages all over the world than terrorists.


Southeast Asia, you can still monger there. Just need to quarantine for 14 days first.

[Sound7]

Newsom claims the first California COVID 19 happened in a nail salon. No other details. Privacy?


Try little beauty center in GG:

http://orangecounty.backpage.com/HealthServices/male-grooming-service-hair-waxing-body-shaving-massage/54935700

She does hair, nails, massage and HE is on the menu. She upsells hard, avoid the nude massage, its not worth it.

[Sound7]

Possible Newsom solution for Nail Saloon. Full Face Sheild + N95 Mask + cleaning / sanitation supplies $16. Positive Air flow and Social Distance. Other add-on cost to the basic service may be added. Basic & Deluxe package pedicure in Phase II. 6 ft Social Distance maintained.

https://abc7.com/nail-salons-coronavirus-covid19-infections/6164615/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-gov-newsom-says-community-spread-started-nail-salon-n1203491


Newsom claims the first California COVID 19 happened in a nail salon. No other details. Privacy?

[James D 2004]

Possible Newsom solution for Nail Saloon. Full Face Sheild + N95 Mask + cleaning / sanitation supplies $16. Positive Air flow and Social Distance. Other add-on cost to the basic service may be added. Basic & Deluxe package pedicure in Phase II. 6 ft Social Distance maintained.

https://abc7.com/nail-salons-coronavirus-covid19-infections/6164615/

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-gov-newsom-says-community-spread-started-nail-salon-n1203491The one-off reusable stuff like face shield cost very little per client. Disposable N95 drops to $2 each retail shipping from China right now. They are good for a day if nothing happens to it. You can reduce the numbers by cycling between a few for any virus to "die" out in a few days, or cook them in the oven in the lowest setting for half hr. Sanitation supplies should cost less now that people know that lots of them are rip-offs and you can easily make it yourself. Best is spraying hydrogen peroxide diluted down to 0. 5%. In a salon setting, you can leave it for some time and wipe dry. You need alcohol for fast drying that still costs a lot right now. But I don't see the need if you have soap and water next to you.

And from my research on low-cost disinfection, I'm moving over to dissolved ozone, a lot better than hydrogen peroxide. An ozone generator cost less than $20 from China. It's small and consumes little electricity. You can run it outside windows or doors and it will be perfectly safe. The ozonated water cost next to nothing and can be more potent than H2 O2 if you choose to, or dilute it further. The best is that the half-life is 15 minutes! So you don't need to worry about the exact concentration. If you leave it for a while it will just be harmless disinfected water. In contrast, hydrogen peroxide will still burn your skin for the first-aid concentration of 3% until it's dry and gone. Indeed, I'm going back to using carpets in my home instead of wooden floors.

The cost will be that you can only take a lot fewer customers, separating them 6 ft apart. But during the times that I take my girls there, they already have at least a few ft between seats. Women go there to relax and enjoy nicer things in life. A big reclining crouch that you can comfortably stretch your legs will be beyond 6 ft, plus space for the technician to move around and for their gears. Even the side by side ones has a few ft between customers so the techs can work easily and customers don't smell each other's toes.

Airflow is a problem as everybody is in the same space. The only thing you can do is to increase the air extraction. But that could be a major investment for some. Say in malls, you are happy if the A / C works in summer, blowing cool air into the shops. Anything else needs major investment by the landlords. But that's a problem for every shop.

[Sound7]

"This whole thing started in the state of California, the first community spread, in a nail salon. I just want to remind everybody of that and that I'm very worried about that," Newsom said during his daily COVID-19 briefing in Sacramento.


The one-off reusable stuff like face shield cost very little per client. Disposable N95 drops to $2 each retail shipping from China right now. They are good for a day if nothing happens to it. You can reduce the numbers by cycling between a few for any virus to "die" out in a few days, or cook them in the oven in the lowest setting for half hr. Sanitation supplies should cost less now that people know that lots of them are rip-offs and you can easily make it yourself. Best is spraying hydrogen peroxide diluted down to 0. 5%. In a salon setting, you can leave it for some time and wipe dry. You need alcohol for fast drying that still costs a lot right now. But I don't see the need if you have soap and water next to you.

And from my research on low-cost disinfection, I'm moving over to dissolved ozone, a lot better than hydrogen peroxide. An ozone generator cost less than $20 from China. It's small and consumes little electricity. You can run it outside windows or doors and it will be perfectly safe. The ozonated water cost next to nothing and can be more potent than H2 O2 if you choose to, or dilute it further. The best is that the half-life is 15 minutes! So you don't need to worry about the exact concentration. If you leave it for a while it will just be harmless disinfected water. In contrast, hydrogen peroxide will still burn your skin for the first-aid concentration of 3% until it's dry and gone. Indeed, I'm going back to using carpets in my home instead of wooden floors.

The cost will be that you can only take a lot fewer customers, separating them 6 ft apart. But during the times that I take my girls there, they already have at least a few ft between seats. Women go there to relax and enjoy nicer things in life. A big reclining crouch that you can comfortably stretch your legs will be beyond 6 ft, plus space for the technician to move around and for their gears. Even the side by side ones has a few ft between customers so the techs can work easily and customers don't smell each other's toes.

Airflow is a problem as everybody is in the same space. The only thing you can do is to increase the air extraction. But that could be a major investment for some. Say in malls, you are happy if the A / C works in summer, blowing cool air into the shops. Anything else needs major investment by the landlords. But that's a problem for every shop.

[James D 2004]

"This whole thing started in the state of California, the first community spread, in a nail salon. I just want to remind everybody of that and that I'm very worried about that," Newsom said during his daily COVID-19 briefing in Sacramento.That is a typical overaction from men. For women who go to nail salons, it's like the grocery store and gas station combined. They will be worried but they will still go given half the chance. I know an escort who just can't survive this on her own. She checked herself into a resort hotel so she can have food. She even hired a chef for the week. Her only complaint? Nails!

[Sound7]

Elon and others have question for the local health department Czar and Governors long term objective. Limited testing available, very slow early response, limited N95 availability. KN95 approved by FDA.

Who is in charge? Are we saving lives?

Newsom Phase III. Now? Elon. Now.

Massage Place in Phase II. W / KN95 not N95.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2020/05/11/musk-tesla-factory/...

https://abc7.com/nail-salons-coronavirus-covid19-infections/6164615/

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2020/05/06/dallas-salon-owner-jailed-coronavirus/


That is a typical overaction from men. For women who go to nail salons, it's like the grocery store and gas station combined. They will be worried but they will still go given half the chance. I know an escort who just can't survive this on her own. She checked herself into a resort hotel so she can have food. She even hired a chef for the week. Her only complaint? Nails!

[FarFarAway]

That is a typical overaction from men. For women who go to nail salons, it's like the grocery store and gas station combined. They will be worried but they will still go given half the chance. I know an escort who just can't survive this on her own. She checked herself into a resort hotel so she can have food. She even hired a chef for the week. Her only complaint? Nails!Take a look at this.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR3Pkkx7OHlOkBoFFS-CAqVNcIKVrnEai-KfbSS8lvYzRpf4wsgbqEcaKvI

This is a respiratory virus, spread by breath. You can go near someone, 6 feet, for a short time, better w / a mask. If you are around them for an hour or more in a closed room, you will have it if they are contagious. That is why a nail salon is a no go for safety. Unless they provide SCUBA!

[James D 2004]

Take a look at this.

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them?fbclid=IwAR3Pkkx7OHlOkBoFFS-CAqVNcIKVrnEai-KfbSS8lvYzRpf4wsgbqEcaKvI

This is a respiratory virus, spread by breath. You can go near someone, 6 feet, for a short time, better w / a mask. If you are around them for an hour or more in a closed room, you will have it if they are contagious. That is why a nail salon is a no go for safety. Unless they provide SCUBA!Some of you take me the wrong way. Back in March, or Feb, how many of you wear a glove using the gas pump, press the buttons, and quarantine your card and glove (if not disposable) if you don't use your payment app? How many gas station staff wear a mask and have a shield? This is pretty standard now. And what did Ted Cruz do? He went for a haircut just now even when the barber isn't supposed to be open.

If you haven't been to a nail salon, you can watch the news about an OC owner reopened her salon in defiance. For smaller salons, the crouch seats are typically much bigger and more spacious than Happy Nails, and typical hair salons. To some women, going to a nail salon is like you have to go to the grocery store and the gas station. If the standard precautions are taken, it's no riskier than going into Walmart, certainly no risker than going for a hair cut. Texans cheer Ted for that.

Rideshare companies JUST required all riders and drivers wearing masks. CDC only recently gave guidelines that no riders should sit in front and suggests a partition. Look at a typical Target staff now. Back in Feb, March or even April, they all work like unprotected idiots. Only men will think why people still want to go to nail salons? To women, it's why not? People still got on cruises back in March and get themselves killed or strained at sea. If everybody wears a mask and glove in public areas on the cruise that will be making a difference.

[SteakTartare]

Fuck right now I would love a hairstylist more than an escort. I can get pussy anywhere, whenever I want, but what I really need is a haircut. I look like a damn hippie. My hair grows like a weed. Does anyone know any chick anywhere who does lingerie-haircuts? I don't even care about the lingerie part, just cut my stupid-ass hair LOL.

I miss my barber and his shavers. I miss that buzzing sound behind my head. In and out in less than 15 minutes.

Steak.

[HapaBoy86]

Fuck right now I would love a hairstylist more than an escort. I can get pussy anywhere, whenever I want, but what I really need is a haircut. I look like a damn hippie. My hair grows like a weed. Does anyone know any chick anywhere who does lingerie-haircuts? I don't even care about the lingerie part, just cut my stupid-ass hair LOL.

I miss my barber and his shavers. I miss that buzzing sound behind my head. In and out in less than 15 minutes.

Steak.A barbershop in Laguna Hills is open but hella crowded. You can google them or go to "thebarberhood.com".

They we're on all the local news for defying State / Local Gov't orders to stay shutdown.

[Incognito22]

Fuck right now I would love a hairstylist more than an escort. I can get pussy anywhere, whenever I want, but what I really need is a haircut. I look like a damn hippie. My hair grows like a weed. Does anyone know any chick anywhere who does lingerie-haircuts? I don't even care about the lingerie part, just cut my stupid-ass hair LOL.

I miss my barber and his shavers. I miss that buzzing sound behind my head. In and out in less than 15 minutes.

Steak.Barberwaxingqueen714 on Instagram is still cutting hair by appointment, pedicures too. She is 30's MILF, dresses sexy, does have an HE only menu.

[Sound7]

Cloth Mask and Social Distance Model May 14, 2020 .


As Los Angeles County continues to reopen certain retail and recreation opportunities, you may be wondering how the Public Health Department decides whether to move forward or retreat. You might also wonder how much the Safer at Home order, physical distancing, hand washing, and cloth face coverings actually help. Department of Health Services director Christina Ghaly, M. D. Broke that down in a county briefing this afternoon.

Ghaly presented the following model:

https://www.welikela.com/how-safer-at-home-allows-l-a-county-to-reopen/


Some of you take me the wrong way. Back in March, or Feb, how many of you wear a glove using the gas pump, press the buttons, and quarantine your card and glove (if not disposable) if you don't use your payment app? How many gas station staff wear a mask and have a shield? This is pretty standard now. And what did Ted Cruz do? He went for a haircut just now even when the barber isn't supposed to be open.

If you haven't been to a nail salon, you can watch the news about an OC owner reopened her salon in defiance. For smaller salons, the crouch seats are typically much bigger and more spacious than Happy Nails, and typical hair salons. To some women, going to a nail salon is like you have to go to the grocery store and the gas station. If the standard precautions are taken, it's no riskier than going into Walmart, certainly no risker than going for a hair cut. Texans cheer Ted for that.

Rideshare companies JUST required all riders and drivers wearing masks. CDC only recently gave guidelines that no riders should sit in front and suggests a partition. Look at a typical Target staff now. Back in Feb, March or even April, they all work like unprotected idiots. Only men will think why people still want to go to nail salons? To women, it's why not? People still got on cruises back in March and get themselves killed or strained at sea. If everybody wears a mask and glove in public areas on the cruise that will be making a difference.

[SteakTartare]

Thanks Hapa but the only thing I detest more than my long haired hippie look is long lines. I always went to my barber at a specific day and hour of the week so he can honor my scheduled appointment. I hate waiting in crowded rooms or long lines. I guess I just hate people in general ha ha ha. The overwhelming entitlement attitude nowadays makes my blood boil.

Good for them to defy Gov Nanny's shutdown. That blue dude hates red OC LOL.

Steak.


A barbershop in Laguna Hills is open but hella crowded. You can google them or go to "thebarberhood.com".

They we're on all the local news for defying State / Local Gov't orders to stay shutdown.

[MacNCheese]

Good for them to defy Gov Nanny's shutdown. That blue dude hates red OC LOL.Meanwhile, OC hit an all time high for new cases yesterday. These people are being reckless.

[SteakTartare]

Statistics and numbers can be manipulated by whatever political agenda one is leaning towards. All time high for new cases is meaningless to me. There are more accurate metrics I need to see to feel safer or less safe.

Steak.


Meanwhile, OC hit an all time high for new cases yesterday. These people are being reckless.

[James D 2004]

Cloth Mask and Social Distance Model May 14, 2020 .


As Los Angeles County continues to reopen certain retail and recreation opportunities, you may be wondering how the Public Health Department decides whether to move forward or retreat. You might also wonder how much the Safer at Home order, physical distancing, hand washing, and cloth face coverings actually help. Department of Health Services director Christina Ghaly, M. D. Broke that down in a county briefing this afternoon.

Ghaly presented the following model:

https://www.welikela.com/how-safer-at-home-allows-l-a-county-to-reopen/You guys should do less reading more thinking. The fact is that the virus is here since at least Jan. It is here whether you reopen or not. It will be there this winter and the next. The only game-changing developments are effective treatments and vaccines. That should be the only guideline for yourself.

If CDC lost its credibility, who else you should trust? I can go on and on but changing guidelines to reuse N95 respirators before effective disinfection methods were found? And advise this to doctors and nurses with a straight face, sending people to die?

[James D 2004]

Meanwhile, OC hit an all time high for new cases yesterday. These people are being reckless.I recommend Flowbee if they still have it in stock. I've been told I look 20 years younger in a bad way. The one-layer equal length cut is the fundamental technique hairstylists do to most of the areas on the head. If you have short straight hair you need a template from Amazon to do the neck blind. Or you can use a 3 mirror gadget to do the neck free handed. The modern version is to use two phones as a cam monitor pair. I also recommend the Philips trimmer designed for self-cut.

On more than one occasion, when I was talking to youngish girls who showed interest in me, her buddy would check my social profile picture and warned her that I am probably 20 years older than my look because of my haircut. That wasn't meant to be a compliment, LOL.

[Sound7]

Asian good to go.

Alameda County has about 141 cases and 5 deaths for every 100,000 residents, although that varies significantly by race. *Black Alameda County residents had disproportionally high death rates, with 9. 6 deaths for every 100,000 residents compared to death rates of 5. 3 for Latinos, 5. 1 for white residents and 2. 7 for Asian residents.


Cloth Mask and Social Distance Model May 14, 2020 .


As Los Angeles County continues to reopen certain retail and recreation opportunities, you may be wondering how the Public Health Department decides whether to move forward or retreat. You might also wonder how much the Safer at Home order, physical distancing, hand washing, and cloth face coverings actually help. Department of Health Services director Christina Ghaly, M. D. Broke that down in a county briefing this afternoon.

Ghaly presented the following model:

https://www.welikela.com/how-safer-at-home-allows-l-a-county-to-reopen/

[Broadjumper]

Thanks Hapa but the only thing I detest more than my long haired hippie look is long lines. I always went to my barber at a specific day and hour of the week so he can honor my scheduled appointment. I hate waiting in crowded rooms or long lines. I guess I just hate people in general ha ha ha. The overwhelming entitlement attitude nowadays makes my blood boil.

Good for them to defy Gov Nanny's shutdown. That blue dude hates red OC LOL.

Steak.You mean that RED OC that went 51% to 43% Hillary? Oh wait, it was the illegals, yeah. That's the ticket.

[Sound7]

To control the spread of COVID-19, the Alameda County Health Officer issued an order on April 17,2020 for all residents and workers to wear face coverings when conducting essential business and when around others outside of their immediate household. Combined with physical distancing and frequent handwashing, face coverings may reduce the risk of infection posed by people who are infected and without symptoms.

We recommend you do not purchase and-95 and surgical / medical masks. These masks are in short supply, and need to be conserved for health workers, first responders, and other workers on the frontlines.


Asian good to go.

Alameda County has about 141 cases and 5 deaths for every 100,000 residents, although that varies significantly by race. *Black Alameda County residents had disproportionally high death rates, with 9. 6 deaths for every 100,000 residents compared to death rates of 5. 3 for Latinos, 5. 1 for white residents and 2. 7 for Asian residents.

[Captain Solo]

To date US has 1.54 M confirmed infection with 290 K recovered and 90,694 deaths in a population of 330 M. About 25% confirmed infected recovered.

That translates to 467 confirmed infection and 27 deaths per 100 K population, or 1 death per 3,638.

The confirmed infected had obvious symptoms and were tested by healthcare. The infected population with no or mild symptoms who went untested are unknown. The infected rate may be 10 times or 5,000 per 100 K pop and going higher. It's unknown that if even recovered they still carry the virus and can infect others. The probability for US population to get infected is conservatively estimated 1 in 20 presently and going higher. For guys who are going to La Zona to hump chicas, the probability is much higher due to mingling in close proximity to a high risk population, may be 10 times higher, or 1 in 2.

A strong and healthy bro was infected, lost taste and smell for 2 days then recovered. He said he may have contracted it in La Zona or his health club. He's going in for antibodies test this week. I urged him to post his infos but he was reluctant. Waiting for his intels.

[Captain Solo]

The US to date had 90,694 deaths in a population of 330 M, 1 death per 3,638 or 27 per 100 K population.

Tjiuana had estimated 2,184 murders over 2. 14 million population or 102 murders per 100 K population. That did not count other unreported murders and missing / kidnapped persons, which may be high.

Mongers are 4 times more likely to die of murder in Tijuana and about 2. 5 times in big US cities than CoVid-19. So why worry?

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/

1. St. Louis, Missouri, 60.9 per 100,000.

2. Baltimore, Maryland, 51 per 100,000.

3. Detroit, Michigan, 38.9 per 100,000.

4. New Orleans, Louisiana, 37.1 per 100,000.

5. Baton Rouge, Louisiana, 35.1 per 100,000.

To date US has 1. 54 M confirmed infection with 290 K recovered and 90,694 deaths in a population of 330 M. About 25% confirmed infected recovered.

That translates to 467 confirmed infection and 27 deaths per 100 K population, or 1 death per 3,638.

[Lift Her Up]

. . . Mongers are 4 times more likely to die of murder in Tijuana and about 2. 5 times in big US cities than CoVid-19. So why worry?

https://www.cbsnews.com/pictures/murder-map-deadliest-u-s-cities/

1. St. Louis, Missouri, 60.9 per 100,000.

2. Baltimore, Maryland, 51 per 100,000. . . .New York City, 242.2 per 100 K, New Jersey 119.2, New York State excluding NYC 62.1, Los Angeles County 18.8, Orange County 3. 5, data from the last couple of days. (Don't know why the site adds a space for a number like 3. 5, but not for 18.8.).

I've resumed letting these fine women use their warm moist tunnels to help me come, but I'm wearing a mask, and not hanging out in crowded places. Just my 2 cents worth.

Lift Her Up.

[Captain Solo]

Lift,

Are you talking about CoVid19 death rates in NYC and NJ? That's pretty scary.

A lot of Manhattan diehards are disillusioned and want to move away from NYC.


New York City, 242.2 per 100 K, New Jersey 119.2, New York State excluding NYC 62.1, Los Angeles County 18.8, Orange County 3. 5, data from the last couple of days. (Don't know why the site adds a space for a number like 3. 5, but not for 18.8.).

I've resumed letting these fine women use their warm moist tunnels to help me come, but I'm wearing a mask, and not hanging out in crowded places. Just my 2 cents worth.

Lift Her Up.

[Sound7]

Inspector General: California Answer to lower death toll?

We could learn from the Swedes how to die. Care Homes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52704836


Lift,

Are you talking about CoVid19 death rates in NYC and NJ? That's pretty scary.

A lot of Manhattan diehards are disillusioned and want to move away from NYC.

[Lift Her Up]

Lift,

Are you talking about CoVid19 death rates in NYC and NJ? That's pretty scary.

A lot of Manhattan diehards are disillusioned and want to move away from NYC.Captain, yes, the "death rate," that is the overall number of deaths adjusted for population size. This is a little different from the Tijuana values, which I think are murders per year per capita. The Covid-19 figures are the total so far, in these last few months. To be able to make fair comparisons among area in the USA, you have to dig into a few different websites and then set up your own spreadsheet. In short, NYC has been clobbered. Roughly one in 400 New Yorkers is now dead from this. So far we've been spared this in Orange County. I want to do my part to keep us this way, balancing this with my male hormonal needs. It's just like many other parts of life, finding the balance. I'm p. O. 'ed at the few guys who are just blowing off the whole danger, and also I don't want to run in terror and live my life in a cave.

Lift Her Up.

[Captain Solo]

By the time this virus infection subsides, we will be looking at at least double the death figure.

That translates to about 1 death in 200 in NYC. That's far worse than any war!


Captain, yes, the "death rate," that is the overall number of deaths adjusted for population size. This is a little different from the Tijuana values, which I think are murders per year per capita. The Covid-19 figures are the total so far, in these last few months. To be able to make fair comparisons among area in the USA, you have to dig into a few different websites and then set up your own spreadsheet. In short, NYC has been clobbered. Roughly one in 400 New Yorkers is now dead from this. So far we've been spared this in Orange County. I want to do my part to keep us this way, balancing this with my male hormonal needs. It's just like many other parts of life, finding the balance. I'm p. O. 'ed at the few guys who are just blowing off the whole danger, and also I don't want to run in terror and live my life in a cave.

Lift Her Up.

[Captain Solo]

San Diego let bars and restaurants open last week.

We are anxiously waiting for Tijuana's City Hall to declare la Zona's bars safe.

We promise to make out, DFK, suck tongues, have hot sex with HK chicas with social distancing.

Xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.

San Diego County shuts down Pacific Beach restaurant after images of crowds emerge.

(Sam Hodgson / San Diego Union-Tribune) By TERI FIGUEROA MAY 22,2020 8:15 PM SAN DIEGO —.

San Diego County shut down a Pacific Beach restaurant and bar Friday after video emerged of crowds flouting the county's public-heath orders, which require patrons to practice social distancing.

During the county's daily briefing Friday, Supervisor Nathan Fletcher played a video of crowds Thursday at El Prez on Mission Boulevard a few blocks south of Grand Avenue. The crowds gathered on the first day that San Diego County restaurants were allowed to reopen for in-person dining.

"We simply cannot tolerate such blatant and intentional violations of our public-health order," Fletcher said, calling it "one of the most egregious" violations he had seen.

The facility, he said, would "remain closed until further notice. ".

In a statement, the restaurant said its reopening made it clear that management needs to take even greater measures "to ensure that our.

The restaurant plans to work with county officials and law enforcement on how to best move forward "in the safest manner possible" and has devised new rules that employees and customers will need to abide by.

"We ask our patrons to help us respect and adapt to these mandatory rules," the statement read. "We recognize there will be a learning curve for them, too. ".

The additional protocols include new signage to better encourage social distancing in lines leading to the restaurant, and the addition of a security guard who will remind people of the rules.

Customers will be allowed to enter only if there is a table available and must wear masks.

"And if these don't work, then we'll continue to pivot as necessary to ensure we're doing the best we can, putting the safety of our customers, employees and community at the forefront," the statement read.

Fletcher said it is the only restaurant the county closed for such violations.

[GreenStream]

Most who died were both sick and old. Many others got it and just had a cold or bad cold. Did you read the letter from 500 doctors to president Trump regarding the many bad health effects of excessive lock-downs / quarantines?

[Captain Solo]

It's a big gamble not knowing how CoVid-19 virus will attack your own body. Hate to be flat out in a hospital bed letting big, fat nurses yank my dick to revive me hehe.

The scary part is scientists predict this virus will never be eradicated, be part of the normal virus pool and will come back every year. Without a good vaccine, there may be outbreaks every year.

Lock downs are harming the physical and mental health of a lot of people. Famine has already set in among many poor countries. If you don't eat you will die 100% in days or weeks.

Businesses are failing; 40 million people in US are jobless; economic damages are in 10's of trillions and may continue for a decade. This virus and others like it can destroy civilization. Remember how the Spanish brought in diseases and destroyed the entire peoples and civilizations of the Aztecs and the Incas in the 16th century.


Most who died were both sick and old. Many others got it and just had a cold or bad cold. Did you read the letter from 500 doctors to president Trump regarding the many bad health effects of excessive lock-downs / quarantines?

[CamsV]

https://occovid19.ochealthinfo.com/coronavirus-in-oc

"don't know how it will attack your body" - that's what I was thinking 2-3 months ago. Waited and wanted to see the data. Things are not unknown now.

https://occovid19.ochealthinfo.com/coronavirus-in-oc

Look at the pie chart with deaths by age. OLD PEOPLE. People with weaker than standard immune systems. I knew 2-3 people who got it to all around my age. 30 plus or minus 2-3 years.

Bad aches, cough, miserable but nothing horrendous so far that seemed like the huge fear and panic. If any of you are peddling fear, uncertainty, doubt, I'd recommend you start looking at independent analysts not talking heads. Specifically the ones who predicted the 2016 election correctly, as those people were also 2-3 months EARLY on predicting the virus and what would happen. Legacy media and anything that's on television is fucking trash, they can't even self-reflect on the 2016 election accurately and come up with a basic analysis of what happened in a reasonable way.

Nobody will change anyone's mind about anything but I can say that I learned a lot when I started getting into news and politics, starting off with that: "Why did 2016 happen the way it did, when everyone was thinking it'd be the other way". Be a truth seeker but then again, not going to expect much on a board about sex. Best to all.

[Captain Solo]

Thanks for sharing your info.

The virus attacks each person differently, depending on his health and immunity responses.

You should look into the risk probability of your age group, how many percent are totally cleared, need hospitalization, contract permanent organs damages, or death.


https://occovid19.ochealthinfo.com/coronavirus-in-oc

"don't know how it will attack your body" - that's what I was thinking 2-3 months ago. Waited and wanted to see the data. Things are not unknown now.

https://occovid19.ochealthinfo.com/coronavirus-in-oc

Look at the pie chart with deaths by age. OLD PEOPLE. People with weaker than standard immune systems. I knew 2-3 people who got it to all around my age. 30 plus or minus 2-3 years.

Bad aches, cough, miserable but nothing horrendous so far that seemed like the huge fear and panic. If any of you are peddling fear, uncertainty, doubt, I'd recommend you start looking at independent analysts not talking heads. Specifically the ones who predicted the 2016 election correctly, as those people were also 2-3 months EARLY on predicting the virus and what would happen. Legacy media and anything that's on television is fucking trash, they can't even self-reflect on the 2016 election accurately and come up with a basic analysis of what happened in a reasonable way.

Nobody will change anyone's mind about anything but I can say that I learned a lot when I started getting into news and politics, starting off with that: "Why did 2016 happen the way it did, when everyone was thinking it'd be the other way". Be a truth seeker but then again, not going to expect much on a board about sex. Best to all.

[Captain Solo]

A couple bros cannot wait for Tijuana's official opening date and are flying in from out of state. They are going crazy staying at home and cannot wait to squeeze and hump sexy bodies in TJ.

They believe they can get over CoVid-19 infection quickly with their good health and younger ages. I have been all over SoCal the last 3 months but tested negative for CoVid-19. I was hoping for antibodies so I can get immune.

I am driving down this weekend for a day trip. Would be safer than going to Santa Ana, Costa Mesa, NPB ect with all these angry rioters. Girls are prettier and sexier too.


There are no riots in Tijuana thank god. God protect Mexico.

[Lift Her Up]

I went back to Six Star, tugged by in by my memories of Bailey. This time she didn't have a mask, though another provider there did have one.

I want to cut down my chances of getting Covid-19, while trying to participate in life with women who acknowledge that I have a sex drive. So, I wore a mask the whole time, except for the good-bye kiss at the end. Supposedly the droplets fall to the ground after 15 minutes or whatever, but I think that's in a lab setting, and who knows what happens in these tiny rooms with lots of activity. So, to minimize how much of someone else's droplets I breathe, I'm making a point now to get in when the places open up in the morning so I'm the first guy in.

Slammer was right in his two comments in the Massage Parlor thread about Six Star being a sausage factory at lunchtime. I got there about 10:15, and while I was on the table, I heard two of you guys coming in. Then on the way out, I saw two more of you coming up the ramp, passing me. This leads me to think I'm better off going to less frequented places.

That in turn leads me to Slammer's riddle about going across the street to two other places. I've looked and looked and yeah, there are other places, all locked up with no suggestion of UTR activity. So, I'm stumped on that one.

Lift Her Up.

[BuddhaHead]

So, I wore a mask the whole time, except for the good-bye kiss at the end. Supposedly the droplets fall to the ground after 15 minutes or whatever, but I think that's in a lab setting, and who knows what happens in these tiny rooms with lots of activity. So, to minimize how much of someone else's droplets I breathe, I'm making a point now to get in when the places open up in the morning so I'm the first guy in.
Lift Her Up.This doesn't really help much, as those wearing non-N95 masks mainly prevent the spread of their own droplets, not protection from others. Also, if techs aren't wearing masks, and they are infected from previous customers, then even a kiss will pass on body fluids through your mouth. A great number of people are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms, so one cannot assume that techs or anyone else aren't infected just because they're still working and maybe feeling fine.

[GreenStream]

This doesn't really help much, as those wearing non-N95 masks mainly prevent the spread of their own droplets, not protection from others. Also, if techs aren't wearing masks, and they are infected from previous customers, then even a kiss will pass on body fluids through your mouth. A great number of people are asymptomatic or have mild symptoms, so one cannot assume that techs or anyone else aren't infected just because they're still working and maybe feeling fine.By the way, the N95's with exhale valves offer less protection to other people than the masks without exhale valves.

[TJ Dog]

I have been all over SoCal the last 3 months but tested negative for CoVid-19. I was hoping for antibodies so I can get immune.
Be careful what you wish for. It is referred to as the "novel" corona virus for a reason.

The jury is still out on whether the antibodies provide immunity. Is it like chicken pox. One-and-done (until you turn 50 and get nailed with shingles), or, is it like the common flu where you get immunity for the duration of flu season and then can get it again next year? Apparently there is no "season" for this virus. Contrary to sfb's proclamation, it didn't go away by April.

Another caveat is the severity of infection. Although odds are against the younger crowd being hospitalized, full recovery is apparently no walk in the park for many who acquire the virus.

[Captain Solo]

You are right there are a lot of unknowns about this virus.

Latest info show a very high percentage of people got infected. Healthy people get rid of the virus without symptoms, but those who get sick require long and expensive treatment. Even after recovery, their organs' tissues are permanently scarred which will reduce life span.

There are no vaccines for HIV, HPV, AIDS, Herpes virus after decades of trying. Effective vaccines for CoVid-19 are very unlikely to happen within a couple years. Eventually everyone will get infected with this virus, just like the common flu. The only alternative is to shut yourself out at home, avoid all social contacts and have no life.

This virus is the worst disaster in the last 100 years right after the Yellow Fever and Spanish flu that killed millions.


Be careful what you wish for. It is referred to as the "novel" corona virus for a reason.

The jury is still out on whether the antibodies provide immunity. Is it like chicken pox. One-and-done (until you turn 50 and get nailed with shingles), or, is it like the common flu where you get immunity for the duration of flu season and then can get it again next year? Apparently there is no "season" for this virus. Contrary to sfb's proclamation, it didn't go away by April.

Another caveat is the severity of infection. Although odds are against the younger crowd being hospitalized, full recovery is apparently no walk in the park for many who acquire the virus.

[Lift Her Up]

By the way, the N95's with exhale valves offer less protection to other people than the masks without exhale valves.I didn't know that, thanks. I happened to be wearing an N95 without exhale vavles. But my overall point about myself, for anyone interested, is that I want to cut my infection risk way back, but I don't want to cut it to zero if that means living without sex. And, I also wanted my friends here to know about current conditions in that place.

Lift Her Up.

[CamsV]

You guys still freaking out about this right? Orange county stats I linked below, those dying are only people who are old. And it's not just because they're old probably, the older they are the more likely, which means? Use reasoning. They have compromised immune systems. Not full strength. Could be other reasons too but it doesn't target people based on age, there's reasoning to it.

I wonder what else it could be other than weakened immune systems.

[Hadez]

Be careful what you wish for. It is referred to as the "novel" corona virus for a reason.

The jury is still out on whether the antibodies provide immunity. Is it like chicken pox. One-and-done (until you turn 50 and get nailed with shingles), or, is it like the common flu where you get immunity for the duration of flu season and then can get it again next year? Apparently there is no "season" for this virus. Contrary to sfb's proclamation, it didn't go away by April.

Another caveat is the severity of infection. Although odds are against the younger crowd being hospitalized, full recovery is apparently no walk in the park for many who acquire the virus.We are not going to get good science from double blind tests until probably 2021 1st qtr at the earliest.

With that said there is good data from 3 different countries including the USA suggesting people who are do not have sufficient levels of Vit D are going through the worst cases of Cov2 including death. There are studies going on to make this "science" but like I said we will not have that kind of "science" until early 2021 at best. I would suggest people getting tested for Vit D to see their levels and if need take supplements. There are other things to be done to strengthen immune system and I suggest people look into that.

By all means if someone wants to wear masks and stay at home use those methods of protection.

The Cov2 (COVID-19) conversation is probably far more complex than a forum section for going to TJ to have fun with girls can handle but if your whole defense is based on wearing a mask I suggest do more research.

[Admin2]

Be careful what you wish for. It is referred to as the "novel" corona virus for a reason.

The jury is still out on whether the antibodies provide immunity. Is it like chicken pox. One-and-done (until you turn 50 and get nailed with shingles), or, is it like the common flu where you get immunity for the duration of flu season and then can get it again next year? Apparently there is no "season" for this virus. Contrary to sfb's proclamation, it didn't go away by April.

Another caveat is the severity of infection. Although odds are against the younger crowd being hospitalized, full recovery is apparently no walk in the park for many who acquire the virus.If you want to continue to insist that this very bad flu is somehow a game changer in real life please keep it on the stupid shit thread. You're the same people that predicted Sweden would have 75,000 dead by the end of March if they didn't reverse course (4,000) and that everybody would get sick if the US opened (steadily declining cases and deaths for six weeks).

It's not nothing, it's obviously something but we let you doom sayers kill 30,000,000 jobs and put 400,000,000 people globally into extreme poverty. Enough is enough, time to get back to life. There is no "new normal. " There's just normal.

[Lift Her Up]

As I posted a few days ago in the San Bernardino MP thread, there's a place in Hesperia where they take your temperature at your forehead on the way in. I also read in one of the LA County threads about the same thing at a place there. I like it.

Note to any PPS or MMS reading these pages: I encourage you to do this too. I don't want to give up sex, so I'm doing a number of small things, each one cutting the risk back a little bit, to help me and these wonderful girls stay safe while you and the girls make money and I get the satisfaction I crave.

Lift Her Up.

[ChrisPoontang]

As I posted a few days ago in the San Bernardino MP thread, there's a place in Hesperia where they take your temperature at your forehead on the way in. I also read in one of the LA County threads about the same thing at a place there. I like it.

Note to any PPS or MMS reading these pages: I encourage you to do this too. I don't want to give up sex, so I'm doing a number of small things, each one cutting the risk back a little bit, to help me and these wonderful girls stay safe while you and the girls make money and I get the satisfaction I crave.

Lift Her Up.Rectal temperature checks are more accurate.

I'm sure certain guys would ask for extra large and ribbed thermometers.

Keep lifting her up over your head.

[HapaBoy86]

As I posted a few days ago in the San Bernardino MP thread, there's a place in Hesperia where they take your temperature at your forehead on the way in. I also read in one of the LA County threads about the same thing at a place there. I like it.

Note to any PPS or MMS reading these pages: I encourage you to do this too. I don't want to give up sex, so I'm doing a number of small things, each one cutting the risk back a little bit, to help me and these wonderful girls stay safe while you and the girls make money and I get the satisfaction I crave.

Lift Her Up.Only reason for the temp check is in cause the health dept could do a unannounced walk-in to make sure they're following the rules. Pretty sure they really don't care about it.

[GreenStream]

Per 10,000 population, there is more COVID19 in Anaheim and Santa Ana than other cities.

[BuddhaHead]

By the way, the N95's with exhale valves offer less protection to other people than the masks without exhale valves.This is kind of mis-stated. N95 masks, with or without exhale valves, offer the same protection to the people wearing them (assuming they are certified N95). They are not recommended by the CDC to be used in a sterile environment: "However, respirators with exhalation valves should not be used in situations where a sterile field must be maintained (e. G. , during an invasive procedure in an operating or procedure room) because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field. " So, the others who are not wearing N95 will be at higher risk of exposure from people who are wearing N95 with valves. But, that's not reducing the wearer's protection.

Also, N95 masks are referred to as respirators, which is a term to mean that they are designed to protect the wearer from foreign micro-particles, not necessarily to protect others from being exposed to the wearer's exhalation.

[BuddhaHead]

Eventually everyone will get infected with this virus, just like the common flu. The only alternative is to shut yourself out at home, avoid all social contacts and have no life.I don't see any scientific study that supports the these statements. "Everyone" does not get infected with the "common flu", which is not a single type, as there are different types that occur every year (for which different vaccines have to be developed). If one is never exposed to these viruses, then you don't get infected. Likewise, people don't quarantine themselves each time there's a flu outbreak, and, going back to the first statement, everyone doesn't get infected.

[RealSexyPanda]

These respirators are to help block small particles that are carried through the air.

I do amateur automotive restoration work as a side gig.

Whenever working with certain paints, chemicals or doing a respray, several of these kits and products emphasize using a respirator to keep these particulates from entering your airway.

[BatmanRobinBat]

Traveled to detox during my lunch break today (Monday). Cynthia was available. Saggy but fun dd's and a nice large ass. Standard service but I'm surprised no one has mentioned how beautiful this girl is. She's really fucking pretty. Had more fun getting a BJ from her and looking at her face than fucking that fat ass doggy. 1. 6 including door fee. Will repeat and focus on either face fucking or pure missionary. Great great face on her.How did the visit flow, considering covid circumstances? Marks, hand-hygiene. Etc. ? Any tips on enjoying the experience while staying safe.

[BatmanRobinBat]

How does it process flow post-COVID? Temperature checks, mask-wearing, sanitizing all surface areas?


So many places on Tustin in Orange. I've had my eye on Dahlia for a while, so decided to TOFTT. Open sign is off and place looks shuttered, but as I cruised through the lot I saw a monger exit, so I knew it was game on. Came back after an hour of errands and walked right in. Was met by a masked Asian provider, whose eyes made me guess 40's. Body seemed tight if not particularly revealing beneath the standard thigh length print dress. .4 hhr. Room was clean, temp comfortable. She started with a massage on the shoulders and back that was brief but actually good pressure, and reminded me that I do like massages. Moved to the legs and ass and the teasing was almost immediate, and very good. This lingered long enough to make it a memorable experience, and only when it was obvious that I was ready did we do the flip.

She started right into the handshake without asking, no discussion of tip or any other extras. Allowed roaming and groping of well-rounded, firm ass beneath the dress, but kept her legs firmly together and moved away when I tested the front. Technique was really good.

Here's the thing: HE have never been my thing. I enjoy the sensuality, but not the standard jackhammer or technique that perhaps get others off. I've never finished this way. Too often I feel this pressure to finish, and that kills it, plus (I now realize) I've never been vocal about what works or what I want. But she started doing some stuff with the shaft and below that was unexpected by highly pleasurable, and I let her know. Her urging me on was not a demand to finish quickly, but like a supporting encouragement LOL. She kept at it, put in the effort, and I had an explosion I'll not soon forget. I tipped the standard. 4 and she never questioned, just gave me a squeeze.

I do not think anything else is on the table there, though who knows. If you are looking for hot young spinners, I don't think this is the place either. But I'll be going back.

[James D 2004]

This is kind of mis-stated. N95 masks, with or without exhale valves, offer the same protection to the people wearing them (assuming they are certified N95). They are not recommended by the CDC to be used in a sterile environment: "However, respirators with exhalation valves should not be used in situations where a sterile field must be maintained (e. G. , during an invasive procedure in an operating or procedure room) because the exhalation valve allows unfiltered exhaled air to escape into the sterile field. " So, the others who are not wearing N95 will be at higher risk of exposure from people who are wearing N95 with valves. But, that's not reducing the wearer's protection.

Also, N95 masks are referred to as respirators, which is a term to mean that they are designed to protect the wearer from foreign micro-particles, not necessarily to protect others from being exposed to the wearer's exhalation.He is actually right, what you said. You kind of mis-stated. They are probably the same materials, medical and industrial. But, if the certification doesn't say bi-direction, it can be only designed and tested in the obvious direction. So it's protecting the wearer by default. There's no guaranteed for the other direction regarding the smallest particles even without a valve. For industrial, there's nothing to protect in the other direction. For medical, doctors / nurses are supposed to be healthy. But medical masks are typically without valves to minimize contamination in any direction. While industrial ones has it to be comfortable working for at least an hour or two.

[James D 2004]

Eventually everyone will get infected with this virus, just like the common flu. The only alternative is to shut yourself out at home, avoid all social contacts and have no life.

This virus is the worst disaster in the last 100 years right after the Yellow Fever and Spanish flu that killed millions.Many research are hoping to get effective treatment and vaccine fast at the beginning. In the latest claims, there are effective vaccines. For fast track approval they will be available next year. Like the flu, it will be very different when you get infected with or without a vaccine. The one thing you can do is to buy time depending on what you can afford. Having no life for a month or two doesn't hurt that much and see what happens.

I actually tried pandemic sex wearing a N100 with a valve for comfort. I went into a decon soapy shower right before and right after at home. I disinfect the whole car with an ozone machine.

[Miguel Honcho]

How does it process flow post-COVID? Temperature checks, mask-wearing, sanitizing all surface areas?Read posts from a few months ago when things started opening up. Recently for me, its wear a mask going in but take it off during the session. Where I've been they haven't been very strict about it. The recent state shutdowns have things like going to the back door, so it's not totally business as usual. Every place will handle things their own way and the rules and practices, like services, YMMV.

[July1714]

How did the visit flow, considering covid circumstances? Marks, hand-hygiene. Etc. ? Any tips on enjoying the experience while staying safe.Worried about covid? LOL come on mongers. Read the thread and use search engine for answers.

[Lift Her Up]

How did the visit flow, considering covid circumstances? Marks, hand-hygiene. Etc. ? Any tips on enjoying the experience while staying safe.I suggest moving this and your other post to the special thread our Administration set up for Covid discussion, "Rants and Stupid Shit in OC. ".

Lift Her Up.

[Captain Solo]

To make sure you are protected during sex, you should wear this CoVid suit:

DuPont TY122's Disposable Elastic Wrist, Bootie & Hood White Tyvek Coverall Suit, Size: Large, with IPT Protective Gloves.


Many research are hoping to get effective treatment and vaccine fast at the beginning. In the latest claims, there are effective vaccines. For fast track approval they will be available next year. Like the flu, it will be very different when you get infected with or without a vaccine. The one thing you can do is to buy time depending on what you can afford. Having no life for a month or two doesn't hurt that much and see what happens.

I actually tried pandemic sex wearing a N100 with a valve for comfort. I went into a decon soapy shower right before and right after at home. I disinfect the whole car with an ozone machine.

[Hornilius69]

How does it process flow post-COVID? Temperature checks, mask-wearing, sanitizing all surface areas?The girls probably wear mask and no temperature check require. I don't think they change towels.

Just visited 6* and the towel on the bed looks used or wet. I had to do K9 standing.

[Admin2]

How did the visit flow, considering covid circumstances? Marks, hand-hygiene. Etc. ? Any tips on enjoying the experience while staying safe.If you want to know what is up with the process of covid crap that's fine but when you post not once but twice about it an then add the "staying safe" part its obvious your crossing over into the politicized bullshit and it needs to be on the stupid shit thread.

Safety is found in this number which was released by the CDC back in May in planning scenarios. 99.74%. That is the overall recovery rate for covid according to the best estimate from the CDC. If that number isn't good enough for you then I suggest you take more draconian measures and stay home until a vaccine is developed.

A2.

[LaidBack59]

I have had several girls catch me on wechat about word spreading of a multi-agency crackdown on open stores. Supposedly, they have fire, health and safety, licensing, police, etc -- checking for "under the radar" stores and handing out hefty fines to stores and girls found working. The Massage council is also in on it and revoking licenses.

Just wondering if anyone has any info, please PM so I can pass it on. I know of at least two stores that were open but have decided the risk is too great and are now closing.

Laidback.

[BatmanRobinBat]

I searched the threads but it didn't yield any results.


Worried about covid? LOL come on mongers. Read the thread and use search engine for answers.

[James D 2004]

To make sure you are protected during sex, you should wear this CoVid suit:

DuPont TY122's Disposable Elastic Wrist, Bootie & Hood White Tyvek Coverall Suit, Size: Large, with IPT Protective Gloves.Actually that's appropriate for HSV prevention. Carriers with no symptom or no outbreaks can still shred the vir, and it's infectious through the skin. It's very misinformed to wear that for covid because it doesn't go through the skin. People rarely BBFS before PrEP. But it's misinformed to BB when you are not taking PrEP. You still cannot rely on a stranger to do all the right things. If you wear a condom why wouldn't you wear a mask?

[Lift Her Up]

In response to the recent question raised by senior member Bronco in the Escorts thread: Since resuming my sex life a few weeks ago, I have been to one AAMP, a house in Rosemead. I wore a mask except while in the shower. Each provider I saw, and both MMS's, had masks. Personally, I find the mask a lot less distracring than I was afraid it would be. Hope this helps.

Lift Her Up.

[Captain Solo]

CoVid-19 virus can travel and infect cells up to 16 feet away. Hope your dicks are longer than 16 feet, or buy some long extension tubes.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/17/health/coronavirus-surfaces-aerosols.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

'A Smoking Gun': Infectious Coronavirus Retrieved From Hospital Air.

Airborne virus plays a significant role in community transmission, many experts believe. A new study fills in the missing piece: Floating virus can infect cells.

By Apoorva Mandavilli.

Skeptics of the notion that the coronavirus spreads through the air — including many expert advisers to the World Health Organization — have held out for one missing piece of evidence: proof that floating respiratory droplets called aerosols contain live virus, and not just fragments of genetic material.

Now a team of virologists and aerosol scientists has produced exactly that: confirmation of infectious virus in the air.

"This is what people have been clamoring for," said Linsey Marr, an expert in airborne spread of viruses who was not involved in the work. "It's unambiguous evidence that there is infectious virus in aerosols. ".

A research team at the University of Florida succeeded in isolating live virus from aerosols collected at a distance of seven to 16 feet from patients hospitalized with Covid-19 — farther than the six feet recommended in social distancing guidelines.

The findings, posted online last week, have not yet been vetted by peer review, but have already caused something of a stir among scientists. "If this isn't a smoking gun, then I don't know what is," Dr. Marr tweeted last week.

But some experts said it still was not clear that the amount of virus recovered was sufficient to cause infection.

The research was exacting. Aerosols are minute by definition, measuring only up to five micrometers across; evaporation can make them even smaller. Attempts to capture these delicate droplets usually damage the virus they contain.

"It's very hard to sample biological material from the air and have it be viable," said Shelly Miller, an environmental engineer at the University of Colorado Boulder who studies air quality and airborne diseases.

"We have to be clever about sampling biological material so that it is more similar to how you might inhale it. ".

Previous attempts were stymied at one step or another in the process. For example, one team tried using a rotating drum to suspend aerosols, and showed that the virus remained infectious for up to three hours. But critics argued that those conditions were experimental and unrealistic.

Other scientists used gelatin filters or plastic or glass tubes to collect aerosols over time. But the force of the air shrank the aerosols and sheared the virus. Another group succeeded in isolating live virus, but did not show that the isolated virus could infect cells.

In the new study, researchers devised a sampler that uses pure water vapor to enlarge the aerosols enough that they can be collected easily from the air. Rather than leave these aerosols sitting, the equipment immediately transfers them into a liquid rich with salts, sugar and protein, which preserves the pathogen.

"I'm impressed," said Robyn Schofield, an atmospheric chemist at Melbourne University in Australia, who measures aerosols over the ocean. "It's a very clever measurement technique. ".

As editor of the journal Atmospheric Measurement Techniques, Dr. Schofield is familiar with the options available, but said she had not seen any that could match the new one.

The researchers had previously used this method to sample air from hospital rooms. But in those attempts, other floating respiratory viruses grew faster, making it difficult to isolate the coronavirus.

This time, the team collected air samples from a room in a ward dedicated to Covid-19 patients at the University of Florida Health Shands Hospital. Neither patient in the room was subject to medical procedures known to generate aerosols, which the W. H. O. And others have contended are the primary source of airborne virus in a hospital setting.

The team used two samplers, one about seven feet from the patients and the other about 16 feet from them. The scientists were able to collect virus at both distances and then to show that the virus they had plucked from the air could infect cells in a lab dish.

The genome sequence of the isolated virus was identical to that from a swab of a newly admitted symptomatic patient in the room.

The room had six air changes per hour and was fitted with efficient filters, ultraviolet irradiation and other safety measures to inactivate the virus before the air was reintroduced into the room.

That may explain why the researchers found only 74 virus particles per liter of air, said John Lednicky, the team's lead virologist at the University of Florida. Indoor spaces without good ventilation — such as schools — might accumulate much more airborne virus, he said.

But other experts said it was difficult to extrapolate from the findings to estimate an individual's infection risk.

"I'm just not sure that these numbers are high enough to cause an infection in somebody," said Angela Rasmussen, a virologist at Columbia University in New York.

"The only conclusion I can take from this paper is you can culture viable virus out of the air," she said. "But that's not a small thing. ".

Several experts noted that the distance at which the team found virus is much farther than the six feet recommended for physical distancing.

"We know that indoors, those distance rules don't matter anymore," Dr. Schofield said. It takes about five minutes for small aerosols to traverse the room even in still air, she added.

The six-foot minimum is "misleading, because people think they are protected indoors and they're really not," she said.

That recommendation was based on the notion that "large ballistic cannonball-type droplets" were the only vehicles for the virus, Dr. Marr said. The more distance people can maintain, the better, she added.

The findings should also push people to heed precautions for airborne transmission like improved ventilation, said Seema Lakdawala, a respiratory virus expert at the University of Pittsburgh.

"We all know that this virus can transmit by all these modes, but we're only focusing on a small subset," Dr. Lakdawala said.

She and other experts noted one strange aspect of the new study. The team reported finding just as much viral RNA as they did infectious virus, but other methods generally found about 100-fold more genetic matter.

"When you do nasal swabs or clinical samples, there is a lot more RNA than infectious virus," Dr. Lakdawala said.

Dr. Lednicky has received emails and phone calls from researchers worldwide asking about that finding. He said he would check his numbers again to be sure.

But ultimately, he added, the exact figures may not matter. "We can grow the virus from air — I think that should be the important take-home lesson," he said.

Apoorva Mandavilli is a reporter for The Times, focusing on science and global health. She is the 2019 winner of the Victor Cohn Prize for Excellence in Medical Science Reporting. At apoorva_nyc.

[James D 2004]

Hi Captain, if you haven't noticed I was wearing an N100 mask throughout. It's in the air but you have to breath it in or through other holes. And of course I was wearing a condom.

[Captain Solo]

James D.

You were way too clean and careful, wearing mask, decon shower, ozoen clean your car ect. I was kidding that you may as well wear that bio hazard suit with the big mask hehe.

I went down to Tijuana about 10 times since CoVid shutdown, popped about 20 girls. So far tested negative and had no symptoms. A wiingman went with me most trips, so far he's OK. May be we are too strong we just scare the virus off hehe.


Hi Captain, if you haven't noticed I was wearing an N100 mask throughout. It's in the air but you have to breath it in or through other holes. And of course I was wearing a condom.

[RedRoddddd]

Can you get it from a BBBJCIMTC?

If so, I'm so screwed!

[Canuck6234]

Can you get it from a BBBJCIMTC?

If so, I'm so screwed!You are screwed 😉.

Were you on the one with the CIM? Or did she / he get the CIM? Well either way CV is primarily transmitted through air borne particles. This is why all the shit over masks. Whoever was recieving the BBBJCIM (the TC is redundant if you are cummjng in mouth) obviously was not masked. So if you were both breathing the same air. You are screwed.

[Captain Solo]

Who says US is a sex desert? Why you guys waste time and money cruising for ugly street hos?

Southern women are beautiful, horny and passionate. You should move South, attend Liberty University and go to church a lot. You will strike pink gold!

Business partner of Falwells says affair with evangelical power couple spanned seven years.

https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-falwell-relationship/

Falwell, 58, took an indefinite leave of absence earlier this month from Liberty University, the Christian school he has run since 2007. The leave, announced in a terse statement from the school's board of trustees, came days after Falwell posted, then deleted, an Instagram photo of himself with his pants unzipped, standing with his arm around a young woman whose pants were also partly undone. Falwell later told a local radio station that the picture was meant as a good-natured joke.

FALWELL POST: The photo on Instagram that was posted, then quickly deleted. Falwell later explained that the post was meant as a joke and the woman was his wife's pregnant assistant.

Becki Falwell, 53, is a political figure in her own right. She served on the advisory board of the group Women for Trump, which advocates for the president's reelection campaign. She also spoke as part of a panel with her husband and Donald Trump Jr at last year's Conservative Political Action Conference, or CPAC, the signature annual gathering of conservatives. Jerry Falwell and others refer to her as "the first lady of Liberty University. ".

The university, based in Lynchburg, Virginia, was founded in 1971 by Falwell's televangelist father, the Rev. Jerry Falwell. The younger Falwell took over in 2007. Today, the university boasts an online and on-campus enrollment that exceeds 100,000 students and holds those who attend to an exacting honor code. "Sexual relations outside of a biblically ordained marriage between a natural-born man and a natural-born woman are not permissible at Liberty University," the code reads.

[Captain Solo]

Summary: Don't grope girls then touch your face; don't hang out without masks in HK more than 15 min.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/doctor...ce-coronavirus

Dr. David Price on how to prevent COVID-19 from spreading: Clean hand and do 'not touch your face, period'.

Jesse Watters featured Dr. David Price of Weill Cornell Medical Center on "Watters' World" Saturday, where the New York City doctor gave advice on how people can prevent spreading the coronavirus.

"You may hear a little inflection in my voice like I'm emotional. It's not because I'm scared. It's actually the opposite. For the first time in a while, I'm actually not scared," Price said via video. "I work at probably the premier hospital in New York City. Our hospital is almost exclusively a COVID-19 hospital, but we're learning and we know a lot. And what I want you guys to know is that every single day we're getting better, we know more. And I am confident that the stuff I can tell you today should make you guys feel like when this comes to your community that you don't have to be scared and that you can protect your family. ".

Price went on say the virus is primarily transmitted by touching someone who has the virus and then touching your face.

"The ways that you get this is the transmission of the virus almost exclusively from your hands to your face, from your hands to your face and inside your eyes, into your nose or into your mouth," Price explained. "So there's a lot of talk about contact or getting it through contacts, hands to face. ".

The doctor also addressed the idea that the virus is transmitted by "long sustained contact" or through the air.

"There's also a small thought that it can be aerosolized, that it can kind of exist a little bit in the air," Price said. "The thought at this point is that you actually have to have very long sustained contact with someone. And I'm talking about over 15 to 30 minutes in an unprotected environment, meaning you're in a very closed room without any type of mask for you to get it that way. ".

"But very simply stated, the overwhelming majority of people are getting this by physically touching someone who has this disease or will develop it in the next one to two days and then touching their face," he pointed out.

"The thing that makes me smile a little bit is I actually know now that I won't get this disease because I know how to protect myself," Price said in the video.

Price offered two practical tips to keep you, your family and your friends from getting the coronavirus.

"Become a hand Nazi. Everything you know about your hands, just keep it clean and you will not get this disease," Price said. "The second thing is you have to start psychologically working on the connection between your hands and your face. ".

"Those two things combined is incredibly powerful and will prevent the transmission of disease in your family in 99 percent of cases, to know your hands are clean and not touch your face, period," Price added.

[James D 2004]

James D.

You were way too clean and careful, wearing mask, decon shower, ozoen clean your car ect. I was kidding that you may as well wear that bio hazard suit with the big mask hehe.

I went down to Tijuana about 10 times since CoVid shutdown, popped about 20 girls. So far tested negative and had no symptoms. A wiingman went with me most trips, so far he's OK. May be we are too strong we just scare the virus off hehe.Since you believe in testing and science, you believe it's real and you have your odds in your mind. So understand that I don't want all my family to have to test regularly and all their contacts. I'm taking it a week at a time until the promised vaccine. It's not that bad and I'm going to upgrade my car with all the saved money.

[Captain Solo]

Why don't you just live in your car a few months so you can go to TJ and distance from your family at the same time?


Since you believe in testing and science, you believe it's real and you have your odds in your mind. So understand that I don't want all my family to have to test regularly and all their contacts. I'm taking it a week at a time until the promised vaccine. It's not that bad and I'm going to upgrade my car with all the saved money.

[TooLazy]

Some are tasteful and well placed and others, well not so much.

What is it with fine ass chicks putting tats on their neck or right above the cleavage? I mean, I get arms, upper shoulder / back, even lower back, hips, ankles, etc.

But neck, face, ears, upper chest? Maybe not so much.

Or am I just old as fuck and behind on the times?

[Captain Solo]

President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump test positive for Covid-19.

By Kevin Liptak, Kaitlan Collins, Betsy Klein, Jim Acosta and Paul LeBlanc, CNN.

Updated 6:11 AM ET, Fri October 2, 2020.

Vinograd: This may be the most dangerous moment the US government has ever faced.

Now PlayingVinograd: This may be.

Lawmaker corners former pharma CEO in blistering interrogation.

White House still won't outright denounce white supremacy.

WASHINGTON, DC. December 12: Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) speaks during a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration hearing on Capitol Hill on December 12,2018 in Washington, DC. The subcommittee addressed issues relating to transnational cartels and border security. (Photo by Zach Gibson / Getty Images).

Cruz: We could find ourselves in nationwide litigation.

US President Donald Trump looks on during the first presidential debate at Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio, on September 29,2020.

Avlon: Proud Boys see Trump's comments as an endorsement.

Undecided voter reacts to debate: I'd consider not voting.

USA President Donald Trump walks to Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 29,2020 in Washington, DC. President Trump will square off with Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden in tonight's debate in Cleveland, Ohio. (Photo by Drew Angerer / Getty Images).

Watch Trump's history of refusing to release his tax returns.

US President Donald Trump speaks during the first presidential debate at the Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio on September 29,2020.

'That is false': Dale fact checks Trump's ballot fraud claim.

Vendor at Trump rally says he's seen uptick in QAnon merchandise demand.

WASHINGTON, DC. MAY 25: USA President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump depart the White House for Baltimore, Maryland on May 25,2020 in Washington, DC. The Trumps will attend a Memorial Day ceremony at the Fort McHenry National Monument and Historic Shrine despite objections by Baltimore Mayor Bernard C. " Jack" Young, whose residents remain under a stay-at-home order due to the coronavirus. (Photo by Sarah Silbiger / Getty Images) NOW PLAYING.

Vinograd: This may be the most dangerous moment the US government has ever faced.

Screenshot of Selina Wang.

CNN reporter: Trump contracting Covid-19 could be 'game changer' for markets.

Joe Biden: I pray Trump makes a full recovery.

Pelosi reacts to Trump's coronavirus diagnosis.

Trump makes fun of Biden's mask-wearing habits.

TOPSHOT. US President Donald Trump tours a Honeywell International Inc. Factory producing N95 masks during his first trip since widespread COVID-19 related lockdowns went into effect May 5, 2020, in Phoenix, Arizona. (Photo by Brendan Smialowski / AFP) (Photo by BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI / AFP via Getty Images).

Trump has repeatedly downplayed the virus all year.

Voter intimidation election day fears donald trump poll watchers brown dnt nr vpx_00002812.

'Complete propaganda! Lt. Governor calls out Trump's tactics.

President Donald Trump exits the Oval Office and walks toward Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 30,2020 in Washington, DC.

Study: Trump likely largest driver of Covid-19 misinformation.

Lawmaker corners former pharma CEO in blistering interrogation.

White House still won't outright denounce white supremacy.

WASHINGTON, DC. December 12: Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) speaks during a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration hearing on Capitol Hill on December 12,2018 in Washington, DC. The subcommittee addressed issues relating to transnational cartels and border security. (Photo by Zach Gibson / Getty Images).

Cruz: We could find ourselves in nationwide litigation.

US President Donald Trump looks on during the first presidential debate at Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio, on September 29,2020.

Avlon: Proud Boys see Trump's comments as an endorsement.

Undecided voter reacts to debate: I'd consider not voting.

USA President Donald Trump walks to Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 29,2020 in Washington, DC. President Trump will square off with Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden in tonight's debate in Cleveland, Ohio. (Photo by Drew Angerer / Getty Images).

Watch Trump's history of refusing to release his tax returns.

US President Donald Trump speaks during the first presidential debate at the Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio on September 29,2020.

'That is false': Dale fact checks Trump's ballot fraud claim.

Vendor at Trump rally says he's seen uptick in QAnon merchandise demand.

WASHINGTON, DC. MAY 25: USA President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump depart the White House for Baltimore, Maryland on May 25,2020 in Washington, DC. The Trumps will attend a Memorial Day ceremony at the Fort McHenry National Monument and Historic Shrine despite objections by Baltimore Mayor Bernard C. " Jack" Young, whose residents remain under a stay-at-home order due to the coronavirus. (Photo by Sarah Silbiger / Getty Images).

Vinograd: This may be the most dangerous moment the US government has ever faced.

Screenshot of Selina Wang.

CNN reporter: Trump contracting Covid-19 could be 'game changer' for markets.

Joe Biden: I pray Trump makes a full recovery.

Pelosi reacts to Trump's coronavirus diagnosis.

Trump makes fun of Biden's mask-wearing habits.

TOPSHOT. US President Donald Trump tours a Honeywell International Inc. Factory producing N95 masks during his first trip since widespread COVID-19 related lockdowns went into effect May 5, 2020, in Phoenix, Arizona. (Photo by Brendan Smialowski / AFP) (Photo by BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI / AFP via Getty Images).

Trump has repeatedly downplayed the virus all year.

Voter intimidation election day fears donald trump poll watchers brown dnt nr vpx_00002812.

'Complete propaganda! Lt. Governor calls out Trump's tactics.

President Donald Trump exits the Oval Office and walks toward Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 30,2020 in Washington, DC.

Study: Trump likely largest driver of Covid-19 misinformation.

(CNN) President Donald Trump announced early Friday that he and his wife both tested positive for the coronavirus, an extraordinary development coming months into a global pandemic and in the final stretch of his reelection campaign in which he has flouted experts' guidance on preventing the disease's spread.

The diagnosis amounts to the most serious known health threat to a sitting American president in decades. At 74 years old and obese, Trump falls into the highest risk category for serious complications from the disease, which has killed more than 200,000 Americans and more than 1 million people worldwide.

His infection with the disease could prove destabilizing in an already fraught political climate, and stock market futures tumbled on news of Trump's infection.

"Tonight, at FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER!" Trump tweeted shortly before 1 am Friday.

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Later, the first lady wrote on Twitter that she and her husband were "feeling good. ".

Trump was last seen in public on Thursday afternoon, returning to the White House after a fundraising trip to New Jersey. He did not appear ill, though he did not speak to reporters as he walked into his residence.

In a memo issued to reporters around 1 am ET, the President's physician, Navy Cmdr. Dr. Sean Conley, wrote that he received confirmation of the positive tests on Thursday evening.

"The President and First Lady are both well at this time, and they plan to remain at home within the White House during their convalescence," Conley wrote.

"The White House medical team and I will maintain a vigilant watch, and I appreciate the support provided by some of our country's greatest medical professionals and institutions," Conley wrote, without elaborating what assistance was being provided to the White House.

"Rest assured I expect the President to continue carrying out his duties without disruption while recovering, and I will keep you updated on any further developments," he wrote.

READ: Trump's doctor releases statement after the President and first lady test positive for Covid-19.

The President had said late Thursday night that he planned to quarantine after one of his closest aides, Hope Hicks, tested positive for the infection, bringing the disease into his innermost circle. Earlier in the night, he had downplayed the virus' continued spread.

"The end of the pandemic is in sight," he said during prerecorded remarks at the annual Al Smith dinner, held virtually because of the health crisis.

Ignoring the science.

While the White House frequently touts its extensive testing regimen for the President and those who come into close proximity with him -- aides have deemed him the "most tested man in the country" -- the infections underscored the shortcomings in relying on tests alone to prevent contagion.

Trump and many of his aides have eschewed practices like social distancing and mask wearing. At Tuesday evening's presidential debate, the President mocked his rival, Democratic nominee Joe Biden, for frequently wearing a mask.

After announcing the President's diagnosis, the White House issued a new schedule to reflect several cancelled events on Friday, including a fundraiser in Washington and a campaign rally in Florida.

The scrubbed plans were the most immediate effects of the President's diagnosis on the presidential campaign, which has centered largely on the pandemic and the President's response to it. Trump has frequently sought to paint a rosy picture of the current situation, including just hours before he announced his diagnosis.

Trump has also repeatedly insisted the country is "rounding the corner" on the disease and claimed the virus would "disappear," though even health experts within his own administration said those claims did not reflect reality.

Getting infected himself with coronavirus will do little to further his claims that the disease is waning, and undercut his push for states to reopen schools and businesses. Trump has complained during recent rallies about Democratic governors who have maintained strict lock downs to prevent the spread of the virus.

At-risk category.

Trump has blatantly disregarded medical recommendations from his own coronavirus task force during the pandemic, proceeding with a busy schedule of packed campaign rallies. Most recently, his supporters stuffed into events in Minnesota and Pennsylvania.

Those events appear on hold for now as the President stays at the White House. Long guarded about his medical history, the President's most recent physical showed he weighed 243 pounds -- considered obese for his height. Still, Conley said he was in "very good health" in a readout of the exam.

President Donald Trump walks off Marine One as Hope Hicks is seen through the window as he returns to the White House following a trip to the west coast, on September 14,2020 in Washington, DC. Photo by Kevin Dietsch / Pool /ABACAPRESS.COM.

President Donald Trump walks off Marine One as Hope Hicks is seen through the window as he returns to the White House following a trip to the west coast, on September 14,2020 in Washington, DC. Photo by Kevin Dietsch / Pool /ABACAPRESS.COM.

Aside from Hicks, several of the President's aides have tested positive for the coronavirus since the pandemic began ravaging the country earlier this year. In May, two White House staffers, including a member of the Navy who serves as one of Trump's personal valets, tested positive for the virus, and in July a cafeteria employee on the White House grounds tested positive as well. The vice president's press secretary has tested positive, as did the President's national security adviser Robert O'Brien. The President confirmed a fourth positive case on White House grounds last month.

Trump has previously expressed concern that aides contracting the coronavirus would undercut his message that the outbreak is waning and states should accelerate reopening, according to a person who had spoken with him.

And he asked in the spring how it was possible that one of his valets -- responsible for handling his food and drink -- could have come into contact with him.

The White House has since gone to great lengths to shield Trump and Vice President Mike Pence from the outbreak, even as they travel to states where cases are surging.

Close aide tests positive.

Hicks has traveled with the President multiple times recently, including to the debate in Cleveland on Tuesday, and was seen boarding Marine One, along with several other of the President's closest aides -- Jared Kushner, Dan Scavino and Nicholas Luna -- none of whom wore masks, on Wednesday as Trump was heading to a campaign rally in Minnesota.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines state that a 14-day quarantine should take place after the last known exposure to someone who has tested positive for Covid-19. This is because the incubation period for the novel coronavirus can be up to two weeks.

Trump, in his Fox News interview, speculated that Hicks could have contracted the virus from an interaction with a supporter.

"She's a very warm person. She has a hard time, when soldiers and law enforcement comes up to her, you know, she wants to treat them great, not say, 'Stay away, I can't get near you. ' It's a very, very tough disease," he said.

A source close to Hicks told CNN that she is experiencing symptoms and is back in Washington. A source familiar with Hicks' symptoms describes her as being achy and feeling pretty bad. CNN has reached out to Hicks for comment.

"The President takes the health and safety of himself and everyone who works in support of him and the American people very seriously," White House spokesman Judd Deere told CNN in a statement when asked about the level of contact between Hicks and Trump.

The White House made no mention of Hicks by name, nor did it confirm she had tested positive.

"White House Operations collaborates with the Physician to the President and the White House Military Office to ensure all plans and procedures incorporate current CDC guidance and best practices for limiting COVID-19 exposure to the greatest extent possible both on complex and when the President is traveling," Deere added.

Some White House staffers who were in close proximity were notified of the positive test result today, one official said.

This story has been updated with further developments Friday morning.

CNN's Paul LeBlanc contributed to this report.

[Incognito22]

President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump test positive for Covid-19.

By Kevin Liptak, Kaitlan Collins, Betsy Klein, Jim Acosta and Paul LeBlanc, CNN.

Updated 6:11 AM ET, Fri October 2, 2020.

Vinograd: This may be the most dangerous moment the US government has ever faced.

Now PlayingVinograd: This may be.

Lawmaker corners former pharma CEO in blistering interrogation.

White House still won't outright denounce white supremacy.

WASHINGTON, DC. December 12: Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) speaks during a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration hearing on Capitol Hill on December 12,2018 in Washington, DC. The subcommittee addressed issues relating to transnational cartels and border security. (Photo by Zach Gibson / Getty Images).

Cruz: We could find ourselves in nationwide litigation.

US President Donald Trump looks on during the first presidential debate at Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio, on September 29,2020.

Avlon: Proud Boys see Trump's comments as an endorsement.

Undecided voter reacts to debate: I'd consider not voting.

USA President Donald Trump walks to Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 29,2020 in Washington, DC. President Trump will square off with Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden in tonight's debate in Cleveland, Ohio. (Photo by Drew Angerer / Getty Images).

Watch Trump's history of refusing to release his tax returns.

US President Donald Trump speaks during the first presidential debate at the Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio on September 29,2020.

'That is false': Dale fact checks Trump's ballot fraud claim.

Vendor at Trump rally says he's seen uptick in QAnon merchandise demand.

WASHINGTON, DC. MAY 25: USA President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump depart the White House for Baltimore, Maryland on May 25,2020 in Washington, DC. The Trumps will attend a Memorial Day ceremony at the Fort McHenry National Monument and Historic Shrine despite objections by Baltimore Mayor Bernard C. " Jack" Young, whose residents remain under a stay-at-home order due to the coronavirus. (Photo by Sarah Silbiger / Getty Images) NOW PLAYING.

Vinograd: This may be the most dangerous moment the US government has ever faced.

Screenshot of Selina Wang.

CNN reporter: Trump contracting Covid-19 could be 'game changer' for markets.

Joe Biden: I pray Trump makes a full recovery.

Pelosi reacts to Trump's coronavirus diagnosis.

Trump makes fun of Biden's mask-wearing habits.

TOPSHOT. US President Donald Trump tours a Honeywell International Inc. Factory producing N95 masks during his first trip since widespread COVID-19 related lockdowns went into effect May 5, 2020, in Phoenix, Arizona. (Photo by Brendan Smialowski / AFP) (Photo by BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI / AFP via Getty Images).

Trump has repeatedly downplayed the virus all year.

Voter intimidation election day fears donald trump poll watchers brown dnt nr vpx_00002812.

'Complete propaganda! Lt. Governor calls out Trump's tactics.

President Donald Trump exits the Oval Office and walks toward Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 30,2020 in Washington, DC.

Study: Trump likely largest driver of Covid-19 misinformation.

Lawmaker corners former pharma CEO in blistering interrogation.

White House still won't outright denounce white supremacy.

WASHINGTON, DC. December 12: Sen. Ted Cruz (R-TX) speaks during a Senate Judiciary Subcommittee on Border Security and Immigration hearing on Capitol Hill on December 12,2018 in Washington, DC. The subcommittee addressed issues relating to transnational cartels and border security. (Photo by Zach Gibson / Getty Images).

Cruz: We could find ourselves in nationwide litigation.

US President Donald Trump looks on during the first presidential debate at Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio, on September 29,2020.

Avlon: Proud Boys see Trump's comments as an endorsement.

Undecided voter reacts to debate: I'd consider not voting.

USA President Donald Trump walks to Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 29,2020 in Washington, DC. President Trump will square off with Democratic presidential nominee Joe Biden in tonight's debate in Cleveland, Ohio. (Photo by Drew Angerer / Getty Images).

Watch Trump's history of refusing to release his tax returns.

US President Donald Trump speaks during the first presidential debate at the Case Western Reserve University and Cleveland Clinic in Cleveland, Ohio on September 29,2020.

'That is false': Dale fact checks Trump's ballot fraud claim.

Vendor at Trump rally says he's seen uptick in QAnon merchandise demand.

WASHINGTON, DC. MAY 25: USA President Donald Trump and first lady Melania Trump depart the White House for Baltimore, Maryland on May 25,2020 in Washington, DC. The Trumps will attend a Memorial Day ceremony at the Fort McHenry National Monument and Historic Shrine despite objections by Baltimore Mayor Bernard C. " Jack" Young, whose residents remain under a stay-at-home order due to the coronavirus. (Photo by Sarah Silbiger / Getty Images).

Vinograd: This may be the most dangerous moment the US government has ever faced.

Screenshot of Selina Wang.

CNN reporter: Trump contracting Covid-19 could be 'game changer' for markets.

Joe Biden: I pray Trump makes a full recovery.

Pelosi reacts to Trump's coronavirus diagnosis.

Trump makes fun of Biden's mask-wearing habits.

TOPSHOT. US President Donald Trump tours a Honeywell International Inc. Factory producing N95 masks during his first trip since widespread COVID-19 related lockdowns went into effect May 5, 2020, in Phoenix, Arizona. (Photo by Brendan Smialowski / AFP) (Photo by BRENDAN SMIALOWSKI / AFP via Getty Images).

Trump has repeatedly downplayed the virus all year.

Voter intimidation election day fears donald trump poll watchers brown dnt nr vpx_00002812.

'Complete propaganda! Lt. Governor calls out Trump's tactics.

President Donald Trump exits the Oval Office and walks toward Marine One on the South Lawn of the White House on September 30,2020 in Washington, DC.

Study: Trump likely largest driver of Covid-19 misinformation.

(CNN) President Donald Trump announced early Friday that he and his wife both tested positive for the coronavirus, an extraordinary development coming months into a global pandemic and in the final stretch of his reelection campaign in which he has flouted experts' guidance on preventing the disease's spread.

The diagnosis amounts to the most serious known health threat to a sitting American president in decades. At 74 years old and obese, Trump falls into the highest risk category for serious complications from the disease, which has killed more than 200,000 Americans and more than 1 million people worldwide.

His infection with the disease could prove destabilizing in an already fraught political climate, and stock market futures tumbled on news of Trump's infection.

"Tonight, at FLOTUS and I tested positive for COVID-19. We will begin our quarantine and recovery process immediately. We will get through this TOGETHER!" Trump tweeted shortly before 1 am Friday.

Content by Paint Your Life.

Turn your favorite photo into a work of art.

Hand-painted portraits can add texture to your gallery wall, give a room a unique finish and preserve an important figure in your life for the rest of time.

Later, the first lady wrote on Twitter that she and her husband were "feeling good. ".

Trump was last seen in public on Thursday afternoon, returning to the White House after a fundraising trip to New Jersey. He did not appear ill, though he did not speak to reporters as he walked into his residence.

In a memo issued to reporters around 1 am ET, the President's physician, Navy Cmdr. Dr. Sean Conley, wrote that he received confirmation of the positive tests on Thursday evening.

"The President and First Lady are both well at this time, and they plan to remain at home within the White House during their convalescence," Conley wrote.

"The White House medical team and I will maintain a vigilant watch, and I appreciate the support provided by some of our country's greatest medical professionals and institutions," Conley wrote, without elaborating what assistance was being provided to the White House.

"Rest assured I expect the President to continue carrying out his duties without disruption while recovering, and I will keep you updated on any further developments," he wrote.

READ: Trump's doctor releases statement after the President and first lady test positive for Covid-19.

The President had said late Thursday night that he planned to quarantine after one of his closest aides, Hope Hicks, tested positive for the infection, bringing the disease into his innermost circle. Earlier in the night, he had downplayed the virus' continued spread.

"The end of the pandemic is in sight," he said during prerecorded remarks at the annual Al Smith dinner, held virtually because of the health crisis.

Ignoring the science.

While the White House frequently touts its extensive testing regimen for the President and those who come into close proximity with him -- aides have deemed him the "most tested man in the country" -- the infections underscored the shortcomings in relying on tests alone to prevent contagion.

Trump and many of his aides have eschewed practices like social distancing and mask wearing. At Tuesday evening's presidential debate, the President mocked his rival, Democratic nominee Joe Biden, for frequently wearing a mask.

After announcing the President's diagnosis, the White House issued a new schedule to reflect several cancelled events on Friday, including a fundraiser in Washington and a campaign rally in Florida.

The scrubbed plans were the most immediate effects of the President's diagnosis on the presidential campaign, which has centered largely on the pandemic and the President's response to it. Trump has frequently sought to paint a rosy picture of the current situation, including just hours before he announced his diagnosis.

Trump has also repeatedly insisted the country is "rounding the corner" on the disease and claimed the virus would "disappear," though even health experts within his own administration said those claims did not reflect reality.

Getting infected himself with coronavirus will do little to further his claims that the disease is waning, and undercut his push for states to reopen schools and businesses. Trump has complained during recent rallies about Democratic governors who have maintained strict lock downs to prevent the spread of the virus.

At-risk category.

Trump has blatantly disregarded medical recommendations from his own coronavirus task force during the pandemic, proceeding with a busy schedule of packed campaign rallies. Most recently, his supporters stuffed into events in Minnesota and Pennsylvania.

Those events appear on hold for now as the President stays at the White House. Long guarded about his medical history, the President's most recent physical showed he weighed 243 pounds -- considered obese for his height. Still, Conley said he was in "very good health" in a readout of the exam.

President Donald Trump walks off Marine One as Hope Hicks is seen through the window as he returns to the White House following a trip to the west coast, on September 14,2020 in Washington, DC. Photo by Kevin Dietsch / Pool /ABACAPRESS.COM.

President Donald Trump walks off Marine One as Hope Hicks is seen through the window as he returns to the White House following a trip to the west coast, on September 14,2020 in Washington, DC. Photo by Kevin Dietsch / Pool /ABACAPRESS.COM.

Aside from Hicks, several of the President's aides have tested positive for the coronavirus since the pandemic began ravaging the country earlier this year. In May, two White House staffers, including a member of the Navy who serves as one of Trump's personal valets, tested positive for the virus, and in July a cafeteria employee on the White House grounds tested positive as well. The vice president's press secretary has tested positive, as did the President's national security adviser Robert O'Brien. The President confirmed a fourth positive case on White House grounds last month.

Trump has previously expressed concern that aides contracting the coronavirus would undercut his message that the outbreak is waning and states should accelerate reopening, according to a person who had spoken with him.

And he asked in the spring how it was possible that one of his valets -- responsible for handling his food and drink -- could have come into contact with him.

The White House has since gone to great lengths to shield Trump and Vice President Mike Pence from the outbreak, even as they travel to states where cases are surging.

Close aide tests positive.

Hicks has traveled with the President multiple times recently, including to the debate in Cleveland on Tuesday, and was seen boarding Marine One, along with several other of the President's closest aides -- Jared Kushner, Dan Scavino and Nicholas Luna -- none of whom wore masks, on Wednesday as Trump was heading to a campaign rally in Minnesota.

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines state that a 14-day quarantine should take place after the last known exposure to someone who has tested positive for Covid-19. This is because the incubation period for the novel coronavirus can be up to two weeks.

Trump, in his Fox News interview, speculated that Hicks could have contracted the virus from an interaction with a supporter.

"She's a very warm person. She has a hard time, when soldiers and law enforcement comes up to her, you know, she wants to treat them great, not say, 'Stay away, I can't get near you. ' It's a very, very tough disease," he said.

A source close to Hicks told CNN that she is experiencing symptoms and is back in Washington. A source familiar with Hicks' symptoms describes her as being achy and feeling pretty bad. CNN has reached out to Hicks for comment.

"The President takes the health and safety of himself and everyone who works in support of him and the American people very seriously," White House spokesman Judd Deere told CNN in a statement when asked about the level of contact between Hicks and Trump.

The White House made no mention of Hicks by name, nor did it confirm she had tested positive.

"White House Operations collaborates with the Physician to the President and the White House Military Office to ensure all plans and procedures incorporate current CDC guidance and best practices for limiting COVID-19 exposure to the greatest extent possible both on complex and when the President is traveling," Deere added.

Some White House staffers who were in close proximity were notified of the positive test result today, one official said.

This story has been updated with further developments Friday morning.

CNN's Paul LeBlanc contributed to this report.Well someone had to do the research. Hope Hicks has proven even presidential knee pads can't protect you from Covid.

[Captain Solo]

Doing research in bed?


Well someone had to do the research. Hope Hicks has proven even presidential knee pads can't protect you from Covid.

[Incognito22]

Doing research in bed?She is #1 White House concubine. She is paid 180 k a year from campaign funds. Which is the going rate.

Melania has got to be pissed catching Covid from his side piece.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8231805/Kimberly-Guilfoyle-Lara-Trump-sign-Trumps-election-campaign-180-000-year.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/hope-hicks-bio-trump-spokeswoman-2017-2

[Captain Solo]

These are the risks of engaging in child prostitution and pimping, trafficking children.

It's possible there are other victims and more charges will be piled up.

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-10-06/orange-county-da-announces-child-prostitution-charges-against-ceo

By ANDREW J. CAMPASTAFF WRITER.

OCT. 6, 20209:23 PM.

The Orange County district attorney's office said Tuesday that Ian Charles Schenkel, founder and chief executive of Ontario-based Haliburton International Foods, was charged last month with engaging in underage prostitution.

Schenkel was arrested Sept. 29 in Newport Beach. The following day, Amanda E Perez, 22, of Huntington Beach was arrested on suspicion of facilitating the crimes.

Authorities are asking any potential victims to call the Newport Beach Police Department at (949) 644-3790.

Schenkel, 59, has been charged with six felony counts, including unlawful sex with a minor, unlawful sexual intercourse and a lewd act on a child 14 or 15.

There were also two misdemeanor counts of soliciting prostitution with a minor.

Perez was also charged with six felony counts, including human trafficking of a victim under 18, human trafficking of a victim under 16 and pandering with a minor for the purposes of prostitution.

If convicted on all counts, Schenkel could serve as much as eight years in state prison and almost two years in county jail. Perez faces a maximum of 14 years and eight months in state prison.

"The exploitation of children for sex acts shocks the public conscience," Orange County Dist. Atty. Todd Spitzer said in a statement. "It is reprehensible, and it is unlawful. ".

Schenkel, a dual American-Canadian citizen, is believed to be home in Newport Beach after posting $100,000 bond. Perez posted a $70,000 bond.

[GreenStream]

She is #1 White House concubine. She is paid 180 k a year from campaign funds. Which is the going rate.

Melania has got to be pissed catching Covid from his side piece.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8231805/Kimberly-Guilfoyle-Lara-Trump-sign-Trumps-election-campaign-180-000-year.html

https://www.businessinsider.com/hope-hicks-bio-trump-spokeswoman-2017-2Kindly stop with the hate.

[CamsV]

The more you sound like the television, the less people pay attention to you because we get a glut of information out there.

1. You hate trump.

2. You fear mongered corona virus like hell.

3. You dropped 2-3 credibility points in my mind until you say something insightful in the first few sentences, then I'm going to attribute TDS to you and emotional responses galore.

Go listen to someone who actually provides something insightful like this guy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mG1qJeDI9Ok

[KindOfSchmidty]

Hey guys,

Finally made an account but been lurking on the forums. Anyone interested in me making a video guide of the AMP's in OC and where to go w / streetwalker footage too. Thinking about doing a series and starting a go fund me for the channel.

[SaltyDog]

Hey guys,

Finally made an account but been lurking on the forums. Anyone interested in me making a video guide of the AMP's in OC and where to go w / streetwalker footage too. Thinking about doing a series and starting a go fund me for the channel.Oh yea!? I could use a "Go fund me" account to!

[Genbua]

Hey guys,

Finally made an account but been lurking on the forums. Anyone interested in me making a video guide of the AMP's in OC and where to go w / streetwalker footage too. Thinking about doing a series and starting a go fund me for the channel.I don't think anyone still actually doing it, you know, to make sure LE not having footage. And sometimes we may have LE here as well.

[Jackzter]

I don't know about everyone else but in my opinion, more publicity isn't a good thing.


Hey guys,

Finally made an account but been lurking on the forums. Anyone interested in me making a video guide of the AMP's in OC and where to go w / streetwalker footage too. Thinking about doing a series and starting a go fund me for the channel.

[Slammer6008]

Hey guys,

Finally made an account but been lurking on the forums. Anyone interested in me making a video guide of the AMP's in OC and where to go w / streetwalker footage too. Thinking about doing a series and starting a go fund me for the channel.Send me a check for 50,000 I even have a few midgets also. 😳.

[TooLazy]

Hey guys,

Finally made an account but been lurking on the forums. Anyone interested in me making a video guide of the AMP's in OC and where to go w / streetwalker footage too. Thinking about doing a series and starting a go fund me for the channel.V: (Evey pulls out her mace) I can assure you I mean you no harm.

Evey Hammond: Who are you?

V: Who? Who is but the form following the function of what and what I am is a man in a mask.

Evey Hammond: Well I can see that. 0.

V: Of course you can. I'm not questioning your powers of observation; I'm merely remarking upon the paradox of asking a masked man who he is.

Evey Hammond: Oh. Right.

V: But on this most auspicious of nights, permit me then, in lieu of the more commonplace sobriquet, to suggest the character of this dramatis persona.

V: Voil! In view, a humble vaudevillian veteran, cast vicariously as both victim and villain by the vicissitudes of Fate. This visage, no mere veneer of vanity, is a vestige of the vox populi, now vacant, vanished. However, this valorous visitation of a by-gone vexation, stands vivified and has vowed to vanquish these venal and virulent vermin vanguarding vice and vouchsafing the violently vicious and voracious violation of volition.

V: The only verdict is vengeance; a vendetta, held as a votive, not in vain, for the value and veracity of such shall one day vindicate the vigilant and the virtuous.

V: Verily, this vichyssoise of verbiage veers most verbose, so let me simply add that it's my very good honor to meet you and you may call me V.

Evey Hammond: Are you, like, a crazy person?

V: I am quite sure they will say so. But to whom, might I ask, am I speaking?

[Slammer6008]

Send me a check for 50,000 I even have a few midgets also. 😳.Slammers home movies in DVD or. 3-D.

If you get a 3-D version it will be like you're there with the slammer.

If you buy both you'll get a free slammer T-shirt.

[Lift Her Up]

Just a word of thanks to all my brothers on this site, and I guess a sister or two as well, whose many posts help guide me to these wonderful women who let me feel connection, relieve me of my stress, and help me enjoy life. Don't know what I'd do without them.

Lift Her Up.

[Brock Laser]

Hey guys,

Finally made an account but been lurking on the forums. Anyone interested in me making a video guide of the AMP's in OC and where to go w / streetwalker footage too. Thinking about doing a series and starting a go fund me for the channel.Remember, anything can and will be used against you in the kangaroo court of law.

[BJojo]

[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[BJojo]

And he didn't even see her first hand? Probably a competitor using a sock puppet account.I inquired ABOUT her (it's a good thing to do before dropping $$) sometime ago! Got so-so responses, so I finally decided to drop the data this day. Besides! One has much more freedom to express these things here. Because I'm sure you know, beefing with a chick on HX leads to multiple white knights ganging up against those that speak out about a lady in hopes that they would get a free session, or points for having that ladies' back. The truth is, it's a one way / ridiculous loyalty that's a troubling because these chicks don't give a rats AZZ about zero dudes in the community. To them, they are only loyal to one thing: $$, nothing else.

[BJojo]

This shit is funny because this guys beefing with this chick on that board, based on the multiple threads I've seen.

Now he's on here writing a bad (and likely fake) review of her. The shit some of you guys pull man, shit's funny.What's even funnier. ! She would really help cause if she took the money she make while on her knees, and / or her back. And.

Invest it in (1) literacy courses (spelling, dictation is worse than a 2 year old) to learn how to read and write; (2) Vaginal surgery, to tighten that gaping hole that she considers to be her money maker. Because at the rate she's going, 200+ men in her network and counting.

It will get to the point where it's beyond repair.

[JHeezy]

Watch out for this provider: https://www.humaniplex.com/profiles/Sxyvictoria , do your homework. Besides there are much younger.

, prettier, less drama based gals on the site, at much better donation points than what she requests. Her donations asks are delusional.

As hell for a dame that's over the hill (real age is closer to 50+, not early 40's). A smoking hot 20 something, is much better lay than.

An old dame posing as a young chick.Dude. You're so upset you've resorted to responding to yourself, just to make yourself feel better about beefing with some hoe on HX about imaginary points.

Get over it.

[PlutoKiller]

Dude. You're so upset you've resorted to responding to yourself, just to make yourself feel better about beefing with some hoe on HX about imaginary points.

Get over it.Questionable past with multiple handles and he got expelled from the Safety Club on HX. Also subject of a new blog there.

[BJojo]

Questionable past with multiple handles and he got expelled from the Safety Club on HX. Also subject of a new blog there.You bet Mr. WhiteKnight!! I'm over it. Run and tell that! Questionable Past (handles, expulsion, etc.) ! Are you serious? What does a past have to do on an escort site. This isn't corporate america Mr. Knight. The basic premises of the entire site is shady practices, married people, pimps, etc. Don't get self righteous. These chicks don't give a damn about you either. Regardless of how you endear them.

[BJojo]

Never was attractive looking to me, and not my type! Looks terrible for her fake age. She's a hardcore Trump supporter also posting / commenting dumb shit his dumb ass tells his supporters and they believe it like herself. Check her blogs tab to see for yourself.Keith I'm with you guy. I just find other 's here: white-knight's (escort scouts) . To be delusional: they put hoes before bro's.

[BJojo]

Questionable past with multiple handles and he got expelled from the Safety Club on HX. Also subject of a new blog there.Again. ! You said: Questionable past with multiple handles, expelled from a club, etc. Who gives a rip Mr. White Knight! You say these.

Things as if it's some kinda revelation, or it's the first of it's kind. Plenty of folks have had more than one handle, expelled from a.

Club, etc. Personally, I don't comment on girl / guy beef because it's not that serious. And most important, I don't put hoe's before bro's.

[Rrod1114]

NO I did not Mr. Knight. But I inquired (it's a good thing to do before dropping $$) sometime ago! Got so-so responses, so I finally decided to drop the data this day. Besides! One has much more freedom to express these things here. Because I'm sure you know, beefing with a chick on HX leads to multiple white knights ganging up against those that speak out about a lady in hopes that they would get a free session, or points for having that ladies' back. The truth is, it's a one way / ridiculous loyalty that's a troubling because these chicks don't give a rats AZZ about zero dudes in the community. To them, they are only loyal to one thing: $$, nothing else.LOL No White Knight here.

Posting unsolicited information where you do not have 1st hand knowledge is always going to look sketchy. Especially with information that you are in arguments with this broad on the HX site.

[BJojo]

LOL No White Knight here.

Posting unsolicited information where you do not have 1st hand knowledge is always going to look sketchy. Especially with information that you are in arguments with this broad on the HX site.Ok Sir! I was not referring to you as a WK! But I'll close this out with you. I'm always amazed with how many guys are over-protective of an ESCORT!! Now I respect any lady that I've seen, I don't take advantage, tender the agreed upon $$, etc. But I will speak truthful about an encounter, good or bad. But for the life of me. I'll never understand way dudes over-protect a lady that is shared by 100's, 1000's of other dudes. Because I really believe ladies have MUCH less loyalty to dudes, than the opposite. As long as dudes are providing the $$, their loyalty is 10000% focused there. AND ONLY THERE! Now when you leave! There are 15 appointments awaiting. !!

[JHeezy]

Ok Sir! I was not referring to you as a WK! But I'll close this out with you. I'm always amazed with how many guys are over-protective of an ESCORT!! Now I respect any lady that I've seen, I don't take advantage, tender the agreed upon $$, etc. But I will speak truthful about an encounter, good or bad. But for the life of me. I'll never understand way dudes over-protect a lady that is shared by 100's, 1000's of other dudes. Because I really believe ladies have MUCH less loyalty to dudes, than the opposite. As long as dudes are providing the $$, their loyalty is 10000% focused there. AND ONLY THERE! Now when you leave! There are 15 appointments awaiting. !!Nobody is defending this chick though. You just got called out on your bullshit review fueled by how sore your ass is because you got called out on that board.

There was no encounter and you even admitted it. But here you are talking about an encounter.

How did you manage to convince yourself to get this butthurt? All over imaginary internet points. Shits fucking hilarious.

[Rrod1114]

Ok Sir! I was not referring to you as a WK! But I'll close this out with you. I'm always amazed with how many guys are over-protective of an ESCORT!! Now I respect any lady that I've seen, I don't take advantage, tender the agreed upon $$, etc. But I will speak truthful about an encounter, good or bad. But for the life of me. I'll never understand way dudes over-protect a lady that is shared by 100's, 1000's of other dudes. Because I really believe ladies have MUCH less loyalty to dudes, than the opposite. As long as dudes are providing the $$, their loyalty is 10000% focused there. AND ONLY THERE! Now when you leave! There are 15 appointments awaiting. !!This you?


NO I did not Mr. Knight....I don't give a damn about this girl. Just hate to see this board littered with bullshit information.

You obviously have a grudge with this person so any information you provide is useless.

[BJojo]

Nobody is defending this chick though. You just got called out on your bullshit review fueled by how sore your ass is because you got called out on that board.

There was no encounter and you even admitted it. But here you are talking about an encounter.

How did you manage to convince yourself to get this butthurt? All over imaginary internet points. Shits fucking hilarious.Sir. I never once said I met this dame. From the start I indicated that is was data collected from folks that met her, and If I did say, it was in error. I will not lie and say I met this dame. But I don't want to continue conversing on this subject / back -and- forth with what appears to be an infestation of White-Knights, Escort Apologists, Scouts for the Working Girls, etc. What's hilarious you say? Guys that come to the aid of "Women of the Night", and they to, have to fork over $$ for some action, like the rest of us. Now that's FUNNY AS HELL!

[BJojo]

This you?

I don't give a damn about this girl. Just hate to see this board littered with bullshit information.

You obviously have a grudge with this person so any information you provide is useless.Ok. I'll give you that, on the litter front. But your tone, and the hostility in your response is not consistent.

With a dude that 's not invested emotionally (or "don't give a damn" as you believe) in this dame, or whoever else you hang out.

With on external boards. But you sir!! Exhibit many of the same traits as a White-Knight, Escort Scout, etc.

So! Drop the act, you're in this sh*t way too deep when you' re at another dude's throat over chick (s).

That earn their money on their knees / back, etc.

[CumberlandBlue]

[Deleted by Admin]

EDITOR'S NOTE: This report was redacted or deleted to remove sections of the report that were largely argumentative. Please read the Forum FAQ and the Forum's Posting Guidelines for more information. Thank You!

[Rrod1114]

Nice girl. Standard rates and GFE services for this crew. Real pics. Nice booty indeed.This crew hardly disappoints but you will run into duds time to time.

SabrinaLynn was one of those. One of the worst experiences I had in this hobby.

[Rrod1114]

Ok. I'll give you that, on the litter front. But your tone, and the hostility in your response is not consistent.

With a dude that 's not invested emotionally (or "don't give a damn" as you believe) in this dame, or whoever else you hang out.

With on external boards. But you sir!! Exhibit many of the same traits as a White-Knight, Escort Scout, etc.

So! Drop the act, you're in this sh*t way too deep when you' re at another dude's throat over chick (s).

That earn their money on their knees / back, etc.LMAO. You got me.

I earn the words to say to my ****** "I wooed thee with my sword, And won thy love doing thee injuries on the external boards. ".

[BJojo]

LMAO. You got me.

I earn the words to say to my ****** "I wooed thee with my sword, And won thy love doing thee injuries on the external boards. ".I here ya bro'! You got to go balls deep!

[Edward Appleby]

Where did you see her ad? She's a bit coy on email.

Thanks.

Nick.She's on HX as cute-kiki.

Not sure why the OP of that review felt compelled to paste it in 20 different threads.

Kiki is nice. Keeping it real, 7's across the board is more accurate. Maybe OP is in love.

[BenFranklinz]

She's on HX as cute-kiki.

Not sure why the OP of that review felt compelled to paste it in 20 different threads.

Kiki is nice. Keeping it real, 7's across the board is more accurate. Maybe OP is in love.LOL- One mongers 7 is another mongers 9 or 10- best CIM I've had in a long time- would wifey her up in a heartbeat- but I got no problem sharing- with my fellow mongers!

I'm new to this site- I'm from HX where you can post your reviews in multiple clubs- thus the various posting on this site in different threads- still learning the ropes here.

Ben.

[OCpyro]

She's on HX as cute-kiki.

Not sure why the OP of that review felt compelled to paste it in 20 different threads.

Kiki is nice. Keeping it real, 7's across the board is more accurate. Maybe OP is in love.He's a shill that came over from HX. He literally states "tell her Ben sent you" in one report. Just a cheap ass, white knight trying to get a discount.

[BenFranklinz]

He's a shill that came over from HX. He literally states "tell her Ben sent you" in one report. Just a cheap ass, white knight trying to get a discount.Bro- happy New Year! No shill or WK here FAM! Just keeping it 100- as far as being cheap- I never haggle with the ladies regarding their rates- I always do a GFE hour- with my ladies-.

I'm from HX. As Ben. Franklin4 u- no shill acct there nor here- just was spreading the gospel about this true GFE provider- now if you got anything to add about the lady- please do- got my attention bro-.

Semperfi.

Ben.

[Capper6969]

Ok Sir! I was not referring to you as a WK! But I'll close this out with you. I'm always amazed with how many guys are over-protective of an ESCORT!! Now I respect any lady that I've seen, I don't take advantage, tender the agreed upon $$, etc. But I will speak truthful about an encounter, good or bad. But for the life of me. I'll never understand way dudes over-protect a lady that is shared by 100's, 1000's of other dudes. Because I really believe ladies have MUCH less loyalty to dudes, than the opposite. As long as dudes are providing the $$, their loyalty is 10000% focused there. AND ONLY THERE! Now when you leave! There are 15 appointments awaiting. !!Bruh. You bone these women then you like trash talking the number of dudes who bone them. Like your on both sides of it brush. How come you see them, say you respect them, then judge them for boning other dudes. You might as well go and find a virgin in Asia, marry her then you won't be getting at the ladies body count. In reality brush your disgusted with yourself for mongering. ,and taking it out on the ladies. You got some issues brush. No I am not a white knight, just speaking facts. I can care less about these hoeskies, but I don't talk sheet either.

[Capper6969]

Again. ! You said: Questionable past with multiple handles, expelled from a club, etc. Who gives a rip Mr. White Knight! You say these.

Things as if it's some kinda revelation, or it's the first of it's kind. Plenty of folks have had more than one handle, expelled from a.

Club, etc. Personally, I don't comment on girl / guy beef because it's not that serious. And most important, I don't put hoe's before bro's.Oh dang, is this guy Bjojo (fatfukk) from HX? If it is then all his derogatory posts make sense, dude has serious issues with providers, and judges them as if they were his daughters. He needs therapy. Guy got blasted by Victoria back in the day for being a hypocrite. If a lady seen more than a few fellas he calls them nasty and high volume. Yet he bones who he wants. Straight fool.

[ElonMusk]

Not dumb just a simpleton.

Basic economics. By your notion gas here in LA should be below $2 a GAL.Nah you guys out here defending high rates are just a bunch of simps. These hookers aren't smart enough to process economics. It's literally the bookers taking advantage of the situation.

[Mekaman]

Nah you guys out here defending high rates are just a bunch of simps. These hookers aren't smart enough to process economics. It's literally the bookers taking advantage of the situation.Have you considered just not paying the rates while also not bitching about it? Pussy isn't food bro, you can literally just not pay for it and, I don't know, get a GF?

[Thanxxx]

Nah you guys out here defending high rates are just a bunch of simps. These hookers aren't smart enough to process economics. It's literally the bookers taking advantage of the situation.Beg to differ with you and agree to disagree Simpleton.

Here's one that's independent that I've been seeing for almost a year now every month or so. Last time was a late Valentines surprise couple days after. Always been something or another for no creampie for this guy but not this time. She started to allow greek as well at least with myself. So if $100 for an overnight yes a bill 1 Franklin is too high then you don't understand economics. Oh yeah the go to booker been using for over a decade is really taking advantage by at most increased $40 for HR session but only the topshelf ones, mostly stayed same with few went up $20 HR in the same decade of time been seeing the girls offered But then again I need not apply I'm minimum 1 HR typically 2 HRs+ if not overnight so get better rates regardless.

[Wireless91910]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/16/atlanta-spa-shootings/

[Meshugga]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/03/16/atlanta-spa-shootings/It's really sad. These ladies are just looking to make a living like anybody else. That guy's an asshole and I hope he rots in hell.

[PlutoKiller]

Saw her she is gnd looks flip chick.

Her tits are big but very squishy and her tummy is squishy as well. She ain't fat more chubby but if she keep eating she going to be thicker!

She loves daty and gets into dfk also loves to suck di*k!

She is a one and done for me but her pussy does get juicy wet if ya stimulate it just right.Is it just coincidence that both you and PeteMalloy (in a HX club) posted a mini review on the same day about Robyn or is 1+1=2?

[Jedi69]

Is it just coincidence that both you and PeteMalloy (in a HX club) posted a mini review on the same day about Robyn or is 1+1=2?Pete Malloy is a well known HX pimp. So are you saying Hapa dude is a pimp? Lmao.

[HapaBoy86]

Is it just coincidence that both you and PeteMalloy (in a HX club) posted a mini review on the same day about Robyn or is 1+1=2?LOL, keep on dreaming! First, I'm not in as many clubs as I used to be cause I deleted my handle awhile back. Got a new fresh car (handle) and only in 5 clubs instead of the 35 I used to be in.

Just happen to be a coinidence I posted about her same day.

Just makes me laugh and laugh!

[JohnPot]

Not to defend the asshole, but some of the massage places employ UPCHARGE tactic that piss alot of guys of. I'm Asian (my bottom half is black) myself and many a time I do want to go out to my truck and return to those places. To be on the news.


It's really sad. These ladies are just looking to make a living like anybody else. That guy's an asshole and I hope he rots in hell.

[Jedi69]

She definitely visited OC in the past, but I have no clue whether she's BBFS. Only mentioned her as the only mother / daughter team that I know.Copy that. Your mistake was to respond to Trolls. Don't hold your breath as far as receiving the so-called Finder's Fee. That dude can't even afford to pay the $25 release fee at Hx.

Maybe he will pay you in Monopoly Money.


TinyMisty. She does not provide bareback, and I have never heard of her visiting the OC.


Crap, there goes another hope LOL.Still had a great time with her in Green Valley with CFS, awesome sloppy BBBJ, 69, DATY, and this chick is super tiny. No tits at all. But she was engaged, and she even let me wash and soap her up in my bathroom before we started. She does go to Cali rarely, but it is always way up north, like in the Milpitas or Petaluma area, not SoCal.

The problem is the Trolls just post whatever the F comes to their mind at the moment, then asks for info on sisters or whatever in the BB Forum of the OC, when there are more relevant forums for their shit. TinyMisty belongs in the LV Escort Forum, not here.

Stop paying mind to the Trolls and their out-of-reach fantasies good grief.

[Roman]

Does it make sense to do this hobby now that Covid is out there forever, mutating, evolving, through additional gain-of-function research and Darwinian evolution into worse forms?

Is it worth making it with a babe to die?

Methinks not.

ROMAN.

[Grimmy23]

Does it make sense to do this hobby now that Covid is out there forever, mutating, evolving, through additional gain-of-function research and Darwinian evolution into worse forms?

Is it worth making it with a babe to die?

Methinks not.

ROMAN.The virus doesn't transmit through contact. That's been proven repeatedly. As someone in the legit spa industry, we have data showing that something like 15 million massages have been performed across the country since reopening without a single case of Covid transmission. The caveat is that's with both the client and the therapist masked, and that normally doesn't happen in this hobby, so there's slightly more risk. I certainly wouldn't be kissing any providers right now or putting my mouth on any part of their body, but outside of that your risk is low. I do always worry about sheets because I know very well most of these places aren't changing them after every customer. I take a small spray bottle of HBV sanitizer with me and mist the table before I start getting ready. That stuff is expensive and hard to get right now. It's hospital grade and kills on contact. But it's an easy way to add a little extra peace of mind. Or take a towel with you to lay on so at least you're not laying on someone else's jizz stain. Wash your hands right after your service before you walk out. Not hand sanitizer. Ask to use the restroom in your way out and wash for a full 20 seconds. That's the most important part.

[Meshugga]

Does it make sense to do this hobby now that Covid is out there forever, mutating, evolving, through additional gain-of-function research and Darwinian evolution into worse forms?

Is it worth making it with a babe to die?

Methinks not.

ROMAN.Well if it ever made sense to do this hobby, I believe it still does. Personally, I'm vaccinated and once at I'm at 2 weeks after the second shot, I'm going balls-out. Stats so far show the chance of dying of Covid after being fully vaccinated is less than one in a million. The chances of be being killed by my wife if I'm caught are greater than one in a million. I assume you don't go for BBFS because you're seriously rolling the dice there vs Covid, between the dangers of something like HIV and the chance your wife chops your dick off in your sleep.

The few providers I've seen in the last year have all been masked, errrr, except when performing oral. If you both are masked and vaccinated, you are safe. Yes the virus will mutate, but so far not as fast as influenza, and if we achieve herd immunity it will probably die out.

Meanwhile, I'm planning on a great massage and HE this weekend, just need to decide where. Maybe ATOE in SJC.

[BuddhaHead]

Does it make sense to do this hobby now that Covid is out there forever, mutating, evolving, through additional gain-of-function research and Darwinian evolution into worse forms?

Is it worth making it with a babe to die?

Methinks not.

ROMAN.This is an exaggeration of the risk, based on the statistics, both of getting infected and dying. This is what the alarmist main stream media does.

[Meshugga]

This is an exaggeration of the risk, based on the statistics, both of getting infected and dying. This is what the alarmist main stream media does.It is an exaggeration. The media exaggerates things just for ratings. Yes the virus is mutating, but not that fast. Get the vaccine, and go balls-out and live your life. Don't get it, and maybe you get Covid, but you probably aren't going to die from it. Your choice.

But just like before Covid, you might die if you get caught and your wife cuts your dick off in your sleep. Maybe I need to get some iron underwear for peace of mind.

[CrustyOldGuy]

I had it and I'm not young. Way over 50. I experienced fever and chills. No body aches, no respiratory issues. I definitely had it. Two tests and reacted to first inoculation like it was the second.

Remember what Blue Oyster Cult taught us - 'don't fear the reaper. '.

[AhardLanding]

Pete Malloy is a well known HX pimp. So are you saying Hapa dude is a pimp? Lmao.Whats the story with that dude? Does he just rate girls? Or what?

[CrazyGuy93]

Is it normal for girls to use their condoms? And the condoms have no wrapper on it?

I'm tripping out because it could be reused or something.

[Bad Influence]

Is it normal for girls to use their condoms? And the condoms have no wrapper on it?

I'm tripping out because it could be reused or something.They buy in bulk.

[Oc Amper]

Is it normal for girls to use their condoms? And the condoms have no wrapper on it?

I'm tripping out because it could be reused or something.They unwrap them before they get to you. One girl, would unwrap them, and keep the unwrapped condoms in a pill container. Presumably, she would only wrap a few at a time.

[Taxi Mike]

They unwrap them before they get to you. One girl, would unwrap them, and keep the unwrapped condoms in a pill container. Presumably, she would only wrap a few at a time.What?? This is something that really happens? In all the years I've been doing this and all the girls I've been with I've never seen this. LOL. The only reason I could think of to do this has to do with Street Walkers. If they get caught with condoms on them it's used against them. So maybe it would be an attempt to hide them? This sounds bizarre though.

[SCJohn]

What?? This is something that really happens? In all the years I've been doing this and all the girls I've been with I've never seen this. LOL. The only reason I could think of to do this has to do with Street Walkers. If they get caught with condoms on them it's used against them. So maybe it would be an attempt to hide them? This sounds bizarre though.I've been at this a while too. I've seen this done at a few places. The girl doesn't have to deal with a wrapper in the room, one less thing to keep track of. Also it's a little quieter. I've seen them keep the condoms in a little hand towel, pill box, candy tin. It also gives them easy access to the condom and they can quickly slip it on. Hate it when they are struggling to open the wrapper and JR is ready to go. I wouldn't worry about them reusing them. Tho that would really be a sucky job to clean and reroll them LOL.

[IslaVista]

Love the unity and calling them out on ridiculous price increases. When LA girls raise their prices, all we get are white knights and simps saying if you can't afford it then don't play. Anyone willing to pay that much more for the same product is a moron.


Agreed. Rates used to be 260/ hr, now it's 300. And they got rid of 45 minute option.

HaMi / Peony is good, but there is now much better value outside of K Agencies, especially on HX.

[Slammer6008]

If you don't feel like AMP are safe than stay home. Let's get back to the reviews and stories LOL.

P.S. Jackie at VT does bb for 2. Don't judge. It's been a minute.Quit pimping Jackie. LOL yeah I haven't had Jackie in awhile.

[Slammer6008]

Quit pimping Jackie. LOL yeah I haven't had Jackie in awhile.Nura should have its own site. This site is for fucking and sucking.

[MikeSanchez]

I am one that will pay the price. But far from a moron. I create a great relationship with my fav ladies and do treat them very very very well.


Love the unity and calling them out on ridiculous price increases. When LA girls raise their prices, all we get are white knights and simps saying if you can't afford it then don't play. Anyone willing to pay that much more for the same product is a moron.

[PaperTiger24]

Nura should have its own site. This site is for fucking and sucking.Man, GTFO. Check the top of the page, says Thread: Massage Parlor Reports. Nuru is a type of a massage and it takes place at what would be called a massage parlor. If I can put up with posts talking about fucking 60 year old asian grannies raw at F&C CKB or wherever the fuck you can put up with posts about nuru. Go Dodgers, Angels fucking suck.

[OakOak22]

Man, GTFO. Check the top of the page, says Thread: Massage Parlor Reports. Nuru is a type of a massage and it takes place at what would be called a massage parlor. If I can put up with posts talking about fucking 60 year old asian grannies raw at F&C CKB or wherever the fuck you can put up with posts about nuru. Go Dodgers, Angels fucking suck.Hahaha what a legendary fucking post. While I see the merit in both arguments, Nuru most definitely belongs under massage parlor reports.

[BuddhaHead]

Love the unity and calling them out on ridiculous price increases. When LA girls raise their prices, all we get are white knights and simps saying if you can't afford it then don't play. Anyone willing to pay that much more for the same product is a moron.You mean all we get are the whiners and bargain hunters saying we need to boycott. Go ahead. See where that gets you. It's a free market. You get what you pay for. If you can find the same "product" for a lower price, go for it.

[Slim129]

Thanks smart guy, I'm elite VIP on eroticmonkey and TER but, recently been seeing more reports here. Weird flex bro.I don't see it as a flex and more of a callout as in calling you a shill. Not sure how calling you a shill translates to a flex, well that's got me confused at least.

[BbfsMaster2020]

I don't see it as a flex and more of a callout as in calling you a shill. Not sure how calling you a shill translates to a flex, well that's got me confused at least.LOL, look at your previous shill posts. This is forum where you report your visit no? Who died and made you king of the forum. I shared my experience with Rabbit cause I have money to blow and visited her. How miserable is your broke life begging for reviews? Make some money so maybe you can actually visit and write a helpful review as well.

[Slim129]

LOL, look at your previous shill posts. This is forum where you report your visit no? Who died and made you king of the forum. I shared my experience with Rabbit cause I have money to blow and visited her. How miserable is your broke life begging for reviews? Make some money so maybe you can actually visit and write a helpful review as well.I'm just giving you an opinion or a view of what was said, no need to attack me. If someone called you a jackass in a different language and then another person told you he called you a jackass you'd attack the person who translated it for you?

[SirSmitty]

I know this is not really monger related. But I just moved to Westminster. Wondering if there are any popular bars, or clubs to frequent. Are there bars with some normal ladies? That anyone knows of. Or is it all Huntington beach?

Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[GentleSun]

Inflation is here. Just scheduled to see White at CKD tomorrow and the new rate is $300/ hr. She's worth every penny, imo, but I am not loving the Biden Effect. Stay safe and have fun, everyone!

[Abcat1]

Inflation is here. Just scheduled to see White at CKD tomorrow and the new rate is $300/ hr. She's worth every penny, imo, but I am not loving the Biden Effect. Stay safe and have fun, everyone!Not sure it's only Biden but we now have women asking $1000 or more with no reviews. Seems that escorts coming to Chicago raise prices 50% or more. It seems that almost every reliable escort has jumped prices $100 in the last two months Trannies and Doms asking $400 to either get beat up or do a man. And if it's under $300 you're probably ending up in a trailer park Really would like to know if these people / women are getting ant business?

[SaltyDog]

Inflation is here. Just scheduled to see White at CKD tomorrow and the new rate is $300/ hr. She's worth every penny, imo, but I am not loving the Biden Effect. Stay safe and have fun, everyone!Rates starting to up last year during COVID and stayed there because so few places were shut down. Biden had nothing to do with it but if Trump would have done something sooner last year in March it wouldn't have happened. I went to KK and this fat ugly woman asked for $ then. 8 for he. I said no and gave her 8 $ tip and bailed. Stupid shit out there better just to say no.

[Meshugga]

Not sure it's only Biden but we now have women asking $1000 or more with no reviews. Seems that escorts coming to Chicago raise prices 50% or more. It seems that almost every reliable escort has jumped prices $100 in the last two months Trannies and Doms asking $400 to either get beat up or do a man. And if it's under $300 you're probably ending up in a trailer park Really would like to know if these people / women are getting ant business?I saw prices start to inflate in 2020, some providers were giving the excuse because of Covid they were taking increased risks, or had to make up for lost business. My go to place for years raised their hourly rate to $70.

Between the effects of lockdowns, and the shit ton of money dumped into the economy by Congress and Trump last year, THAT is were it started. Yes more spending happened under Biden, but the bulk of it was under Trump if you're looking to point fingers. Either way we're spending way too much fucking money.

That's where the general inflation in the economy started, and a big reason why retail employers are desperate to hire people and can't. They took their time and got better jobs, or are sitting on their Covid stimulus money and don't want to work retail and deal with assholes. It might be me, but I feel like there's also an increase in demand for parlors now, and fewer providers. Simple economics at play here.

[EcstacySeeker]

Not sure it's only Biden but we now have women asking $1000 or more with no reviews. Seems that escorts coming to Chicago raise prices 50% or more. It seems that almost every reliable escort has jumped prices $100 in the last two months Trannies and Doms asking $400 to either get beat up or do a man. And if it's under $300 you're probably ending up in a trailer park Really would like to know if these people / women are getting ant business?Ridiculous to blame Biden for rate increases. That's a new one.

[BuddhaHead]

Obviously many agencies have OC and LA locations and rotate girls between them. Just some examples are m, kakao girls, ca-kdolls and MKC. Many of the girls are booked by multiple bookers as well who might give them a heads up that there are other nearby fishing grounds.

Also if it is so rare, how do so many kgirls shift between socal, bay area, seattle, new york, etc? Someone either provides info to the girls on moving from one location to another or moves them as part of an organization.

I don't know how your "opinion" debunks anything -- it simply means the girl is popular. Several popular girls like Thai Bella, Pink and White have gone back and forth to LA and OC as well as San Diego and Bay Area.So you ask a question and answer it yourself because you don't like the answer given. It's not "opinion" that there isn't a reason to move if someone is fully booked. That's common and good business sense. If girls moved solely on the basis of abundance of white collar workers, then they would all want to work out of Silicon Valley. Obviously, that's not the only nor even the primary criteria. Many girls want to live in KTown for obvious reasons.

[Punter3]

I debated whether or not to respond to your post, but figured why not.


So you ask a question and answer it yourself because you don't like the answer given. I asked: "if the current crop of HYAs in LA will rotate to OC?" You said "unlikely". Fair enough you think it unlikely, despite many in the past being rotated down to OC.


It's not "opinion" that there isn't a reason to move if someone is fully booked.That is not what you said though, is it. You said:


That debunks the notion that OC is a "richer fishing hole".That is your "opinion", that you inserted as a non-sequitor. How exactly does the popularity of a girl in a particular area (LA) alter the richness of a different fishing hole (OC)? There may be many reasons not to go to OC like being fully booked, but that is in no way deterministic on the average disposable income available to hobbyist in OC vs. LA. A point in fact, in LA many agencies offer BBFS and 2 shots for no extra charge, but every agency in OC has an upcharge. They could only do this because there is demand for these services by hobbyist who are willing to pay the upcharge.


If girls moved solely on the basis of abundance of white collar workers, then they would all want to work out of Silicon Valley. And if they could stay fully booked all the time, they would never move. But free markets work and new girls show up. Hobbyist want new pussy or may have had their fill after hitting a particular HYA 5-10-25 times. The bookings gradually drop off and the girl rotates to another location.


Obviously, that's not the only nor even the primary criteria. Many girls want to live in KTown for obvious reasons.I agree that other considerations may influence where a girl works. If she wants to live in ktown or if she has friends that live in LA. But for most HYA girls (not talking about grandmas here), not all, they are on tourist Visas and are here to make money -- as much money as they can before returning home. So if they can stay fully booked and not have to move, I am sure they would. But newness wears off and bookings decline. This is precisely the reason the LA / OC agencies rotate their girls. Again take Thai Bella, she had glowing reviews in LA, but now she works full time in OC.

[BuddhaHead]

I debated whether or not to respond to your post, but figured why not.Again, you seem to want to show you know the answer already, so why argue with someone who disagrees? Also, the only reason you gave that girls would come to OC because it's a "richer fishing hole" but then admit that you agree there's other reasons, that I pointed out.

So you can debate whether you respond or not, but you've already shown that you didn't want to see anyone else's "opinion" anyway.

[Punter3]

Again, you seem to want to show you know the answer already, so why argue with someone who disagrees? Also, the only reason you gave that girls would come to OC because it's a "richer fishing hole" but then admit that you agree there's other reasons, that I pointed out.

So you can debate whether you respond or not, but you've already shown that you didn't want to see anyone else's "opinion" anyway.The question itself was largely rhetorical. The only people who could answer it with certainty are HYA girls or their bookers. It does call for "opinion" and I gave mine and you gave yours. Others may want to offer their's as well. The reality is some HYA girls will rotate to OC and some won't.

What I called bs on was your conclusion:


That debunks the notion that OC is a "richer fishing hole".Plain and simple, the OC is a richer fishing hole than LA. Median incomes in OC are more than 30% higher than LA (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/orangecountycalifornia,losangelescitycalifornia,losangelescountycalifornia,CA,US/PST045219). The reasons you gave to justify your "opinion" don't debunk anything, they simply offer alternative reasons why a girl may not wish to come to OC.

[BuddhaHead]

What I called bs on was your conclusion:

Plain and simple, the OC is a richer fishing hole than LA. Median incomes in OC are more than 30% higher than LA (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/orangecountycalifornia,losangelescitycalifornia,losangelescountycalifornia,CA,US/PST045219). The reasons you gave to justify your "opinion" don't debunk anything, they simply offer alternative reasons why a girl may not wish to come to OC.If you had bothered to read the context of my answer and responses rather than trying to defend your statement, you would have seen that my statement referred to debunking the reason you gave for girls to work out of a certain geographic area. And, as you acknowledged, there are other reasons that girls have for working in a certain area. They don't all work in the "richer fishing holes" or work there because of the relative income levels. The census data is irrelevant to this point.

[HapaBoy86]

Plain and simple, the OC is a richer fishing hole than LA. Median incomes in OC are more than 30% higher than LA (https://www.census.gov/quickfacts/fact/table/orangecountycalifornia,losangelescitycalifornia,losangelescountycalifornia,CA,US/PST045219). The reasons you gave to justify your "opinion" don't debunk anything, they simply offer alternative reasons why a girl may not wish to come to OC.Because it says higher incomes is done off a census don't mean shit when it comes to hobbying. They're are more higher priced girls in LA than OC and it will always be that way!

People in OC are cheap asses cause they use the excuse I don't want to drive to LA due to traffic. Good stay in the OC.

[SaltyDog]

Because it says higher incomes is done off a census don't mean shit when it comes to hobbying. They're are more higher priced girls in LA than OC and it will always be that way!

People in OC are cheap asses cause they use the excuse I don't want to drive to LA due to traffic. Good stay in the OC.Why drive to LA when everything is here? I've yet heard of Vietnamese in LA like here in OC. You can't say that about LA. Everything is here in OC. I'd rather drive to West Covina than LA anytime LOL.

[Prophotog]

And that, my friend, is the QV, HHR, HR scam that we've allowed them to perpetuate all for the privilege of busting a nut. Now stand by while the white knights come to defend this nonsense.


Don't get mad you blew your load after 2 minutes is what cameraeye said. If I paid for an hr I don't care if I blow a load every 2 minutes for an hr. I paid for an hr not 1 pop. I don't understand a msog upcharge. If we agreed on an hour and she's saying you pop you got to go or pay more I probably wouldn't want to pay for a full hr either. I probably would just because that was agreed upon, but I wouldn't repeat. I can see where some would say ok, but I'm only paying for hhr then, no way I'm paying for an hr and leaving in 15 or 20 minutes and still paying for an hr. That's the kind of stuff that belongs in the ripoff reports. Lorena (dolphin tattoo) pulls that nonsense. She just offers full service for $$ instead of an hr, and doesn't tell you it's pop-and-go service until you pop and she gets dressed and rushes you out the door. I say if you are going to play games like that then you don't get mad when you only get paid for the service you provided.

[Jedi69]

I'm blocked by the booker, not sure why it's either because I told her about her this site (I did a long time ago) or he found out we do "BBFS" every time or because I see other girls that have left and she asks about them. It sucks because Athena was my go to "BBFS" date, my favorite actively working girl. She told me not to mention it because supposedly I'm the only one she's allowed to rawdog her and she isn't allowed to offer it but if I'm blocked what do I have to lose? A rating? Fuck them. She's the last attractive one in the group anyway. I at least have the videos but I'm still confused as to why I got blocked.

And I'm NOT the guy that made the post about her asking why I'm blocked earlier this week? If you saw that post you'll realize you are not talking to any girl in that group directly. Seems they're on a blocking spree though. Fucking bullshit. I doubt she was behind blocking me so if she sees this my bad for letting people know you allowed "BBFS" but whoever you work for is a fucking idiot and you should have left long ago. I need to find a new replacement now LOL. Rant over.The baby-flower crew is on a blocking rampage because Athena is his or her most prized income generator right now. If you ever met her in person and she is completely buck naked the only thing that is flooding your mind would be good God I want to fuck her raw. Believe me, dudes have tried and they learned a painful lesson because she reported them and Manager blocked them so fast their heads spun. Afterwards they post a public blog desperately pleading Athena Please Unblock Me!

It is as pitiful and pathetic as it is funny.

Of course there really is no way to tell if you really got what you claim you did. In my eyes you have not earned street cred for me to consider you credible. But trust me, 99.99% of the dudes will go full blast with their Monger Logic, and swallow everything you reported hook, line, sinker. I will say this much. Athena, and other hot young girls like her, will always be raw dogging somebody. And I will say this. The ones who are keep their mouth shut because they don't want to ruin a good thing. You are effectively blocked so you have nothing to lose anyway. Might as well earn some bragging rights. She has mostly bad reviews here, and on other sites. There are guys, one dude in particular, who will say you are embellishing based on the totality of reviews. BrookeViolett is another example with similar hotness. The weakest and most incompetent mongers are truly incapable of understanding the prime directive of this hobby, which is YMMV. They say these things because they are exceedingly jealous, as a consolation prize. If I did not get a 10/10 experience, then it means nobody else did either. Monger Logic at its finest.

You effectively created an operational nightmare for them with your post (see what I did there)? You mentioned the forbidden fruit. She will be spammed to death with BBFS requests. Expect more Hx members to be blocked, and probably more simpish "unblock me please!" public blogs to follow. They want to bang that 4 foot, 11 inch, 90 pound blonde body with the 32 C natural boobs and no tats. Can't say I blame them.

I have seen Athena a total of 3 times now, the last one so very recently. I think I will stop there and conclude this abject lesson, my longest post so far. I hate long ass posts. A picture is worth a thousand words, and say much more than any wordy report could possibly hope to achieve.

[OCpyro]

FitVietMilf Again!

Hey Bros,

I visited this beauty again. That's twice in one week. The reason twice in a week is she is very reasonable. But she is also very hot in my option.Eighteen posts about her in the last few weeks? Are you getting a discount for spamming this site with her reports? Beauty is the eye of the beholder, to me she's maybe a 6. Compared to other Viet girls in general, she's a 5. Service has gotten a little better, but at $151 for a hhr + BBBJ. You're better off spending a little more and getting a well reviewed Kgirl.

[NailBoiz1]

Eighteen posts about her in the last few weeks? Are you getting a discount for spamming this site with her reports? Beauty is the eye of the beholder, to me she's maybe a 6. Compared to other Viet girls in general, she's a 5. Service has gotten a little better, but at $151 for a hhr + BBBJ. You're better off spending a little more and getting a well reviewed Kgirl.LOL. He must be getting paid.

She good but not twice in a week good. I say maybe once a month if that.

[HeadHunter1969]

Eighteen posts about her in the last few weeks? Are you getting a discount for spamming this site with her reports? Beauty is the eye of the beholder, to me she's maybe a 6. Compared to other Viet girls in general, she's a 5. Service has gotten a little better, but at $151 for a hhr + BBBJ. You're better off spending a little more and getting a well reviewed Kgirl.Couldn't agree more!

[BetterThanPro]

Eighteen posts about her in the last few weeks? Are you getting a discount for spamming this site with her reports? Beauty is the eye of the beholder, to me she's maybe a 6. Compared to other Viet girls in general, she's a 5. Service has gotten a little better, but at $151 for a hhr + BBBJ. You're better off spending a little more and getting a well reviewed Kgirl.6 is very generous. 5 at most and maybe a 4.even if she is a good fuck.

[Jedi69]

Give it up on Athena. If you can find the video, then you probably already downloaded and jerked to it. If not, then you will still be here moaning and crying like a little girl, wondering why your internet skills failed you LOL. Grow up.

Speaking of little girls, just saw Cleopatra22 again at her incall in OC. Same GFE date, BBBJ, DATY, 69, pics, video, then CFS in many positions. That body is so tight like a snare drum and totally built for sex. Too bad she is no longer hanging with Torreyskye. I miss those days when they did doubles in Temecula-Murrieta. Here are some pics.

[TheZorak]

Alright, I'm not wasting any more of my time looking for that video. No point in giving the vaguest hints when Xvideos has millions of videos and a shit search engine. Nobody using the site will be able to see it.


Give it up on Athena. If you can find the video, then you probably already downloaded and jerked to it. If not, then you will still be here moaning and crying like a little girl, wondering why your internet skills failed you LOL. Grow up.You're bragging about paying for sex and acting like a 80's movie bully. You're on the same level of the food chain as the rest of us. Relax. If you're not going to contribute to a subject, stay out of it.

[Snidgens]

Give it up on Athena. If you can find the video, then you probably already downloaded and jerked to it. If not, then you will still be here moaning and crying like a little girl, wondering why your internet skills failed you LOL. Grow up.

Speaking of little girls, just saw Cleopatra22 again at her incall in OC. Same GFE date, BBBJ, DATY, 69, pics, video, then CFS in many positions. That body is so tight like a snare drum and totally built for sex. Too bad she is no longer hanging with Torreyskye. I miss those days when they did doubles in Temecula-Murrieta. Here are some pics.How does she compare with a K-girl for her rate?

[Heartless Jay]

Two newbs have been pimping Elegant in CM pretty hard the last few weeks. Posts sound like BP ads. Hot young chix, new talent every week, run, don't walk, don't miss out. LOL.

Have yet to see a detailed report, like where the place is located (this in itself is an enigma), what type of spa it is, house fee, tip fees, the usual stuff we need to know. Any veterans been there that could fill in some of the details?

Is all the hype true, or are the newbs fake accounts working for the spa to spread free advertising?

You know what they say, if it sounds too good to be true, well you know.

[Assaholic]

Two newbs have been pimping Elegant in CM pretty hard the last few weeks. Posts sound like BP ads. Hot young chix, new talent every week, run, don't walk, don't miss out. LOL.

Have yet to see a detailed report, like where the place is located (this in itself is an enigma), what type of spa it is, house fee, tip fees, the usual stuff we need to know. Any veterans been there that could fill in some of the details?

Is all the hype true, or are the newbs fake accounts working for the spa to spread free advertising?

You know what they say, if it sounds too good to be true, well you know.As with 90% of BP ads, hot, young chicks etc it's all BS. TOFTT, Chinese, 30's, huge undefined ass, paid for nuru, she left the top on and 15 seconds in tried to turn it into a jackhammer. I know the routine by now, so I put my pants on and GTFO. If still interested, it's on Harbor. Text them and they'll send you the addy.

[Porkys1980]

Two newbs have been pimping Elegant in CM pretty hard the last few weeks. Posts sound like BP ads. Hot young chix, new talent every week, run, don't walk, don't miss out. LOL.

Have yet to see a detailed report, like where the place is located (this in itself is an enigma), what type of spa it is, house fee, tip fees, the usual stuff we need to know. Any veterans been there that could fill in some of the details?

Is all the hype true, or are the newbs fake accounts working for the spa to spread free advertising?

You know what they say, if it sounds too good to be true, well you know.This place is true. Not newb promo. Looks like some senior members pimping their old places like fc Lucy or apple at palms.

I been to palms and fc. Lucy does everything. Ass to mouth. $40 for house. 90 for her. Total $130. Anna at palms wasn't all that.

[LilBuddyGillig]

Two newbs have been pimping Elegant in CM pretty hard the last few weeks. Posts sound like BP ads. Hot young chix, new talent every week, run, don't walk, don't miss out. LOL.

Have yet to see a detailed report, like where the place is located (this in itself is an enigma), what type of spa it is, house fee, tip fees, the usual stuff we need to know. Any veterans been there that could fill in some of the details?

Is all the hype true, or are the newbs fake accounts working for the spa to spread free advertising?

You know what they say, if it sounds too good to be true, well you know.Agreed. Porky and Jerry are the two hyping this place with no details, no communication, and inability to reply to private messages. It's all fluff, hype, nonsense. Likely both are somehow invested in this establishment.

[JerryX]

Agreed. Porky and Jerry are the two hyping this place with no details, no communication, and inability to reply to private messages. It's all fluff, hype, nonsense. Likely both are somehow invested in this establishment.I don't reply to losers. TOFFT.

BTW.

Head or tail told me about this place, go yell at him.

[JerryX]

Just try elegant yourself. And stop whining, I don't reply to dorks.

[Porkys1980]

Agreed. Porky and Jerry are the two hyping this place with no details, no communication, and inability to reply to private messages. It's all fluff, hype, nonsense. Likely both are somehow invested in this establishment.You are bullying people, just if you don't like the info, then skip along, jeezes don't you Mongers have better things to do than complain and ***** all day long. move along If you actually read the list, You would know its head or tail that mentioned this place first, too bad people don't reply to your inbox, LIke we don't have anything better else to do. LOL.

[Porkys1980]

Agreed. Porky and Jerry are the two hyping this place with no details, no communication, and inability to reply to private messages. It's all fluff, hype, nonsense. Likely both are somehow invested in this establishment.Umm wth you talking about Willis?? I reported bunch of places for last 3 weeks, what have you done? Broke? No $$ no honey buddy Go scream at HEAD OR TAIL, he introduced this place here. LOL.

[Porkys1980]

Two newbs have been pimping Elegant in CM pretty hard the last few weeks. Posts sound like BP ads. Hot young chix, new talent every week, run, don't walk, don't miss out. LOL.

Have yet to see a detailed report, like where the place is located (this in itself is an enigma), what type of spa it is, house fee, tip fees, the usual stuff we need to know. Any veterans been there that could fill in some of the details?

Is all the hype true, or are the newbs fake accounts working for the spa to spread free advertising?

You know what they say, if it sounds too good to be true, well you know.Who are you Ranting to? LOL go find out for yourself, I actually reported about a lot of places, I wish I owned them all LOL.

[SpreadEmWide]

Agreed. Porky and Jerry are the two hyping this place with no details, no communication, and inability to reply to private messages. It's all fluff, hype, nonsense. Likely both are somehow invested in this establishment.You 3 seem to know everything. Assholic an senior member did a review. Maybe you are saving the best for yourselves haha.

Get a life. This totally belongs in stupid shit and rants hahaa.

[Kevin80]

In 30+ years of mongering, I have found that at MOST AMP's, it makes very little difference whether you go for 30 minutes or an hour. Either way you're going to get a rush job 90% of the time. At some places, the hour gets you extra amenities such as a table shower. At most places, 30 minutes really means about 50, and 60 minutes really means about 30. Either way it's make you pop as soon as possible and get you out the door for the next guy. There are exceptions of course. One of the things I like about Bamboo is that you actually get an hour service when you pay for an hour there, and given the cheap house fee for an hour that's very commendable. And it's more or less a real massage, not a half assed AMP special.30 years of experience and 90% of the time it's a rush job. That tells me a lot about you.

[Grimmy23]

30 years of experience and 90% of the time it's a rush job. That tells me a lot about you.Well I'm glad you're such a stud that you can go to any AMP you want and get the full time. The fact of the matter is the goal of most AMPs is to get you in, get you off, and get you out as soon as they possibly can. My 90% may have been an exaggeration, but the fact remains that the providers at AMPs for the most part are not skilled in massage, and the massage you're going to get almost all the time at an AMP is going to be half assed whether it's 30 minutes or an hour. And if you believe otherwise, you don't know much about massage. Again I'm saying most, not all. There are exceptions to any rule of thumb. The girls at Bamboo for example give good massages, but even those aren't CMT quality massages. They're good, but would fall well short of expectations at a legit spa with actual licensed therapists. The other fact is you generally go to an AMP for the extras, not the massage. The "massage" is just a nice bonus, but if you were going for the massage you wouldn't be going there. I would bet good money that if you polled people on here who frequent AMPs, you would overwhelmingly hear that most of the time people don't get the full time that they pay for. AMPs are rush jobs by design, and it's one of the reasons I don't really visit AMPs anymore.

[Kevin80]

Well I'm glad you're such a stud that you can go to any AMP you want and get the full time. The fact of the matter is the goal of most AMPs is to get you in, get you off, and get you out as soon as they possibly can. My 90% may have been an exaggeration, but the fact remains that the providers at AMPs for the most part are not skilled in massage, and the massage you're going to get almost all the time at an AMP is going to be half assed whether it's 30 minutes or an hour. And if you believe otherwise, you don't know much about massage. Again I'm saying most, not all. There are exceptions to any rule of thumb. The girls at Bamboo for example give good massages, but even those aren't CMT quality massages. They're good, but would fall well short of expectations at a legit spa with actual licensed therapists. The other fact is you generally go to an AMP for the extras, not the massage. The "massage" is just a nice bonus, but if you were going for the massage you wouldn't be going there. I would bet good money that if you polled people on here who frequent AMPs, you would overwhelmingly hear that most of the time people don't get the full time that they pay for. AMPs are rush jobs by design, and it's one of the reasons I don't really visit AMPs anymore.I'm no stud but rarely do girls short me time. It happens of course but rare. Bamboo is my favorite place, but I've gone to many other places and rarely do they short time, especially shorting as much as 20-30 minutes, really? If it happened to you 90% or 50% of the time, something is wrong with you.

And knock it off with the CMT qualify, you are incredibly full of yourself. Bamboo, SH, YZ, many other places, girls provide amazing quality massages. You kept repeating that the quality is not as good as your place, how silly are you to believe that. You're proud of being an owner, well then listen to me, I'm a customer and I'm telling you the truth. Myself and several of my friends have been to those overpriced luxury places. You charge a hefty fee for the name and atmosphere but the actually massage is no better than anywhere else. So dude, get over yourself.

I'm trying to be humble in these MP social media sites, and I know admin doesn't want people to argue but fuck dude, after a couple years I realize how silly some of you guys are.

[Grimmy23]

I'm no stud but rarely do girls short me time. It happens of course but rare. Bamboo is my favorite place, but I've gone to many other places and rarely do they short time, especially shorting as much as 20-30 minutes, really? If it happened to you 90% or 50% of the time, something is wrong with you.

And knock it off with the CMT qualify, you are incredibly full of yourself. Bamboo, SH, YZ, many other places, girls provide amazing quality massages. You kept repeating that the quality is not as good as your place, how silly are you to believe that. You're proud of being an owner, well then listen to me, I'm a customer and I'm telling you the truth. Myself and several of my friends have been to those overpriced luxury places. You charge a hefty fee for the name and atmosphere but the actually massage is no better than anywhere else. So dude, get over yourself.

I'm trying to be humble in these MP social media sites, and I know admin doesn't want people to argue but fuck dude, after a couple years I realize how silly some of you guys are.Keep your ego in check. If you don't know the difference between what you get at Bamboo and what you get at a legit spa then you don't know much about massage. As I mentioned, what you get at Bamboo is good, but any one of those providers would be fired on the first day at a legit spa. Someone would come in with some therapeutic need and a prescription from their doctor on something that needs worked on, and they wouldn't have the first clue as to how to approach it. There's a reason why legit spas charge what they do. You're getting someone trained and licensed to deal with various therapeutic conditions. My place is not even a luxury spa. If you think we're overpriced, then don't come. Keep going to your Bamboo, SH, YZ, and such. To each his own. But don't pretend that these places are on the same plane as a good spa with licensed therapists. They're a different world completely and they exist for an entirely different reason and for an entirely different clientele.

There are luxury spas that charge a lot more than mine. It's basically the same massage though - you're getting a CMT and the service isn't any different. The "amenities" in the luxury spa are different - they may have a jacuzzi and sauna, they may give you a glass of champagne after your service, and they may have what I call fru fru services like seaweed wraps. I don't offer any of that stuff - I just have highly trained, highly skilled therapists who know how to work with whatever condition a client may come in with. What if someone is a cancer patient? What if they have fibromyalgia? What if they're pregnant and in a high risk pregnancy? Hypertension? IT Band Syndrome? TMJ? Those all require special massage skills and training that I guarantee you none of the girls at Bamboo have, and that's just naming a few off the top of my head. It's just not an apples to apples comparison, nor does it need to be. They exist for completely different purposes. Claiming Bamboo is the same thing for less money is ludicrous and shows pure ignorance when it comes to therapeutic massage.

It's kind of like my food analogy. Say you want a steak dinner. You can go to Ruths Chris and pay $100 a plate for your dinner and it's amazing, but there are people who will claim that a $30 dinner from Outback is every bit as good. It isn't, nor is it anywhere close. Some people will say so, but a lot of people are conditioned for crappy food, so they don't have a refined enough palate to distinguish between fine dining and a place like Outback. Not that Outback is bad - it's fine and I like going there once in a while, but it's a far cry from Ruths Chris or Morton's. Different quality at a different price point.

This is going to be my last post on the subject because nobody is here to get into pissing matches.

[Taws6]

Grimey & Kevin. Cut it the fuck out, no one wants to hear this shit.

Grow up.

[DJezDick]

Keep your ego in check. If you don't know the difference between what you get at Bamboo and what you get at a legit spa then you don't know much about massage. As I mentioned, what you get at Bamboo is good, but any one of those providers would be fired on the first day at a legit spa. Someone would come in with some therapeutic need and a prescription from their doctor on something that needs worked on, and they wouldn't have the first clue as to how to approach it. There's a reason why legit spas charge what they do. You're getting someone trained and licensed to deal with various therapeutic conditions. My place is not even a luxury spa. If you think we're overpriced, then don't come. Keep going to your Bamboo, SH, YZ, and such. To each his own. But don't pretend that these places are on the same plane as a good spa with licensed therapists. They're a different world completely and they exist for an entirely different reason and for an entirely different clientele.

There are luxury spas that charge a lot more than mine. It's basically the same massage though - you're getting a CMT and the service isn't any different. The "amenities" in the luxury spa are different - they may have a jacuzzi and sauna, they may give you a glass of champagne after your service, and they may have what I call fru fru services like seaweed wraps. I don't offer any of that stuff - I just have highly trained, highly skilled therapists who know how to work with whatever condition a client may come in with. What if someone is a cancer patient? What if they have fibromyalgia? What if they're pregnant and in a high risk pregnancy? Hypertension? IT Band Syndrome? TMJ? Those all require special massage skills and training that I guarantee you none of the girls at Bamboo have, and that's just naming a few off the top of my head. It's just not an apples to apples comparison, nor does it need to be. They exist for completely different purposes. Claiming Bamboo is the same thing for less money is ludicrous and shows pure ignorance when it comes to therapeutic massage.

It's kind of like my food analogy. Say you want a steak dinner. You can go to Ruths Chris and pay $100 a plate for your dinner and it's amazing, but there are people who will claim that a $30 dinner from Outback is every bit as good. It isn't, nor is it anywhere close. Some people will say so, but a lot of people are conditioned for crappy food, so they don't have a refined enough palate to distinguish between fine dining and a place like Outback. Not that Outback is bad - it's fine and I like going there once in a while, but it's a far cry from Ruths Chris or Morton's. Different quality at a different price point.

This is going to be my last post on the subject because nobody is here to get into pissing matches.I respect both of your opinions.

Maybe we should come up with our own rating system?

CHJT (certified hand job therapist).

CBJT (certified blow job therapist).

CFT (certified fornication therapist).

Lets get back to what we are really here for.

[Porkys1980]

Keep your ego in check. If you don't know the difference between what you get at Bamboo and what you get at a legit spa then you don't know much about massage. As I mentioned, what you get at Bamboo is good, but any one of those providers would be fired on the first day at a legit spa. Someone would come in with some therapeutic need and a prescription from their doctor on something that needs worked on, and they wouldn't have the first clue as to how to approach it. There's a reason why legit spas charge what they do. You're getting someone trained and licensed to deal with various therapeutic conditions. My place is not even a luxury spa. If you think we're overpriced, then don't come. Keep going to your Bamboo, SH, YZ, and such. To each his own. But don't pretend that these places are on the same plane as a good spa with licensed therapists. They're a different world completely and they exist for an entirely different reason and for an entirely different clientele.

There are luxury spas that charge a lot more than mine. It's basically the same massage though - you're getting a CMT and the service isn't any different. The "amenities" in the luxury spa are different - they may have a jacuzzi and sauna, they may give you a glass of champagne after your service, and they may have what I call fru fru services like seaweed wraps. I don't offer any of that stuff - I just have highly trained, highly skilled therapists who know how to work with whatever condition a client may come in with. What if someone is a cancer patient? What if they have fibromyalgia? What if they're pregnant and in a high risk pregnancy? Hypertension? IT Band Syndrome? TMJ? Those all require special massage skills and training that I guarantee you none of the girls at Bamboo have, and that's just naming a few off the top of my head. It's just not an apples to apples comparison, nor does it need to be. They exist for completely different purposes. Claiming Bamboo is the same thing for less money is ludicrous and shows pure ignorance when it comes to therapeutic massage.Just get a girlfriend. Or wife already. You cheap basterds.

These are supposed to be in the rants and stupid shit LOL not here. OMG.

Just report on what good and bad massage places already and locations.

[Koreahh]

i respect both of your opinions.

Maybe we should come up with our own rating system?

Chjt (certified hand job therapist).

Cbjt (certified blow job therapist).

Cft (certified fornication therapist).

Lets get back to what we are really here for.Hahaha those are great acronyms hahaha.

[Kevin80]

Keep your ego in check. If you don't know the difference between what you get at Bamboo and what you get at a legit spa then you don't know much about massage. As I mentioned, what you get at Bamboo is good, but any one of those providers would be fired on the first day at a legit spa. Someone would come in with some therapeutic need and a prescription from their doctor on something that needs worked on, and they wouldn't have the first clue as to how to approach it. There's a reason why legit spas charge what they do. You're getting someone trained and licensed to deal with various therapeutic conditions. My place is not even a luxury spa. If you think we're overpriced, then don't come. Keep going to your Bamboo, SH, YZ, and such. To each his own. But don't pretend that these places are on the same plane as a good spa with licensed therapists. They're a different world completely and they exist for an entirely different reason and for an entirely different clientele.

There are luxury spas that charge a lot more than mine. It's basically the same massage though - you're getting a CMT and the service isn't any different. The "amenities" in the luxury spa are different - they may have a jacuzzi and sauna, they may give you a glass of champagne after your service, and they may have what I call fru fru services like seaweed wraps. I don't offer any of that stuff - I just have highly trained, highly skilled therapists who know how to work with whatever condition a client may come in with. What if someone is a cancer patient? What if they have fibromyalgia? What if they're pregnant and in a high risk pregnancy? Hypertension? IT Band Syndrome? TMJ? Those all require special massage skills and training that I guarantee you none of the girls at Bamboo have, and that's just naming a few off the top of my head. It's just not an apples to apples comparison, nor does it need to be. They exist for completely different purposes. Claiming Bamboo is the same thing for less money is ludicrous and shows pure ignorance when it comes to therapeutic massage.

It's kind of like my food analogy. Say you want a steak dinner. You can go to Ruths Chris and pay $100 a plate for your dinner and it's amazing, but there are people who will claim that a $30 dinner from Outback is every bit as good. It isn't, nor is it anywhere close. Some people will say so, but a lot of people are conditioned for crappy food, so they don't have a refined enough palate to distinguish between fine dining and a place like Outback. Not that Outback is bad - it's fine and I like going there once in a while, but it's a far cry from Ruths Chris or Morton's. Different quality at a different price point.

This is going to be my last post on the subject because nobody is here to get into pissing matches.Oh wow, I understand now.

[Porkys1980]

Oh wow, I understand now.Heartless jay is a little beeitch that likes to bully and whine and too cheap to venture himself. Lmao. Wonder why you still monger you cheap f.

[Slammer6008]

Heartless jay is a little beeitch that likes to bully and whine and too cheap to venture himself. Lmao. Wonder why you still monger you cheap f.That's how you can settle this!! Pick a neutral site!!

[Porkys1980]

That's how you can settle this!! Pick a neutral site!!Its the heartless and lilgilligan that are cray and expect free stuff and the ones probably stealing tips from the girls, I hope they upload their video camera pictures to youtube. I installed a few cameras for these AMPs and know they will spread their doom online and via their own AMP Channel / on discord lmao.

[Justify]

With the way gas prices are going I may have to choose between filling my car with a tank of gas or getting some tail. Tough choice, need one, can't live without the other.

[Edward Appleby]

First of all, I have not seen Rabbit, so this is not based on my personal experience. The primary reason that I've not attempt to see her is that there are so many conflicting reports on her services and menu. When she was here last year, there were initial reports of BBFS and then later there were conflicting reports of everything covered, including CBJ. Now there is report of BB greek? Granted I've not participated in this forum for a long time, but I've not recalled a provider with such discrepancies in her menu.The discrepancy might be due to shill account reviews. It's pretty easy to work out if you read the other posts by the reviewers.

[OCpyro]

The discrepancy might be due to shill account reviews. It's pretty easy to work out if you read the other posts by the reviewers.Time to put a stop to this. Mods should ban all mention Rabbit, and ban the users who continue to shill for her.

Wasn't she the one who scammed someone out of a lot money last visit?

[Grimmy23]

Since a few people like to ridicule my expertise and insight on the legit massage industry, and I don't want to get into another pissing match on the MP thread, I thought I'd elaborate here. And if anybody still has any doubts, let 'er rip. I'm a straight shooter telling it the way it is, whether it's what people like to hear or not. This is going to be long so bear with me.

First off, I personally have no issues with a legit massage ending with a HJ. It's harmless and even healthy. It's stress relieving and thought by some to reduce blood pressure and risk of getting prostate cancer. Unfortunately the laws in our country don't agree, so legit massage places have to comply. There's also the stigma in our society. Nobody wants their legit spa turning into a jack shack. Also, legit places hire therapists based on their massage skills. They have to or they go out of business. If happy endings become the norm, now it's a slippery slope. You have to hire girls who are good looking, willing to get naked or at least partially naked, willing to give HJs, and don't mind being touched. And then it may not necessarily stop with a HJ. You'll always have customers pushing for more. That's why as much as I advocate for legit massage with happy ending, I don't think happy endings will ever mix with true therapeutic massage in this country. Too many complications. I have a staff full of amazing CMTs, but not one that you'd want to get a HJ from or see naked.

Now, what started this off was someone wondering about getting a HJ from Zeel or Soothe, and I said probably not. That's where the ridicule kicked in. Said poster didn't seem to care much for my professional insight.

Imagine for a moment that you own a legit massage establishment. You invested your life savings in it and literally have everything on the line, including your house as collateral. I'm talking hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line here, nothing you can easily recover from if you screw up. If you lose your business you lose everything. No, this is not unrealistic. It's how most of us finance our businesses. It's extremely scary shit for a few years until you get profitable. Now with all that in mind, don't you think you're going to take every possible measure to protect your business? You bet your ass you will. Now what's one of the biggest things keeping you up at night, other than making rent and payroll every month? You're now a business owner and an employer, and you own a business where your customers get naked behind a closed door with members of your staff. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, you're in the wrong business, or you don't belong in business at all. SO much room for SO many things to go wrong. Lawsuits happen ALL THE FREAKING TIME, all over the country. Two big scenarios loom:

Scenario 1 is the most common: Male MT with female client. Obvious room for misconduct there, and unfortunately it happens frequently. MT improperly exposes the female client, or inappropriately touches something, and she sues you for hundreds of thousands of dollars and probably wins because it's all behind closed doors, her word against yours. You have little to defend yourself with.

Scenario 2 is less common, but still happens more than you probably realize: Female MT seeing male customers who make unwanted advances, try to inappropriately fondle, etc. Female MT sues the business for sexual harassment and not providing a safe, secure work environment. More of a difficult case, but believe me they happen quite a bit.

Various other things worry business owners because of the behind closed door thing. Say an MT gives away expensive upgrades to keep her clients coming back. Things like a hot stone add-on that would normally cost extra she does for free. She's using company supplies, so she's basically stealing from the business. Or say she offers to see a customer outside of work for a cheaper price. Stealing clients from the business. That stuff is hard to monitor and keep in check because you just don't know what happens behind that closed door.

Now consider Zeel, Soothe, and other "delivery" massage places. Now it's more than just "behind a closed door. " Your employee (or independent contractor) is literally in the customer's house and now doesn't have the protections your spa might offer. Unlike a spa where if something goes sideways she can just step out the door into safety, in someone's house it isn't that easy. And it doesn't matter if you live in a nice gated community in OC or if you're in the projects in Watts. Your employee is working in someone else's environment that you have no control over. Again, if that doesn't scare the crap out of you as an employer, then you're totally out of touch with what employers have to deal with every day.

So what do you do? You put whatever controls in place that you can to make DAMN sure you're providing a safe, secure workplace. In a brick & mortar spa it's easy. The CMT can just walk out of the room. Some spas even have hidden panic buttons that the CMT can push to summon help. And you (and your management) make sure that if any guy crosses the line or attempts to cross the line, you throw his sorry ass out of your business and even report to authorities if necessary. You have to back your employees up 100%. If you don't, you're setting yourself up for major trouble.

Secret shoppers: I mentioned this and got openly ridiculed. Being behind closed doors, there's a lot of room for the CMT to cross the line too. Not only sexual misconduct stuff, but stealing products, stealing clients, offering their own retail products that are cheaper than what the spa offers, etc. The ONLY way you stop those things from happening is to plant the thought in their heads that we have people going in for services who report back to us. Every spa owner I've ever met does that. I have a handful of them. Some of them are just friends of mine who are regular customers who tell me what goes on. Some are random people who I reimburse for their massages and nobody but me knows about them. Nobody but me knows how often they come in or how many there are. In reality they don't come in very often. I have a busy spa and don't have to be giving away a lot of services. But the point is they're out there and the staff knows they're out there, so it's a cheap and easy way of keeping them in check. I will stop short of saying I know what Zeel's or Soothe's standard business practices are, but I'd be stunned if they weren't doing something similar. It costs next to nothing and it's an easy quality control tool. You just find a small handful of people who you occasionally have book a massage and give you feedback. They're not employees or even contractors. If you think it's a laughable matter, then again you're out of touch with reality. All it would take would be for a female CMT to get groped in a couple dudes' houses. Best case she quits, worst case she hits you with a harassment / unsafe workplace claim.

Now, I heard Zeel and Soothe compared to delivery services like instacart. Just pay the driver a little extra to make an extra stop on the way and pick up some stuff not normally authorized for delivery, no problem because "everyone needs money. " News flash: Massage isn't instacart, or postmates, or door dash. It's a licensed profession. CMTs have to go to massage school which costs a fair amount of money, and they have to take an exam, and they have to pay licensing fees. They can't legally practice their trade without their credentials. It is their way of making a living. If they do something improper and get their credentials suspended, now they have to find something else to do for a living. It's not like they're just downloading an app that enables them to deliver groceries for money as a little bit of a side gig, and if they get in trouble with that company they just go to a different one. In massage, if you screw up, you're done. You'll never get another massage job again anywhere in the US.

Think there's no "blacklist" for therapists who get in trouble? Think again. Being a licensed profession, every legit massage business that exists does a full background check, not only on new hires, but usually once a year after you've hired them. Part of that background check includes checking in with the state certification agency. If they have an infraction against their license there is no way for them to hide it. All of their current employers will know, and any future prospective employers will know. There's your blacklist. If someone gets fired for giving handjobs or anything else, industry standards demand a thorough investigation, and that includes reporting the incident to the certification board (or licensing board, depending on the state). IN ADDITION TO THAT, there is a relatively new nationwide "Employment Verification Database" for spas that will include any such incidents. Again, this is something that only came about in the past year or so, mostly as a result of the dumbass shenanigans that happen at Massage Envy, but it is quickly gaining traction. Today it is at least theoretically possible that someone could lose their credentials in California, move to another state, go through the licensing process there and completely evade detection. Once the new database gains traction that will no longer be possible since there is a national database in addition to the state database.

Is all of this harsh and over the top? Remember that you're a business owner who probably invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in your business, so you have to go to all extremes to protect that. You don't want to risk losing everything because a couple of your employees were giving handjobs under the table and you chose to look the other way.

So laugh all you want. This is all the reality of the industry and how things work. If you still think this is all "hilarious," I have nothing left to tell you that will change your opinion.

[Wireless91910]

Here's an interesting study that I found online. Some informative info.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4529837/


Since a few people like to ridicule my expertise and insight on the legit massage industry, and I don't want to get into another pissing match on the MP thread, I thought I'd elaborate here. And if anybody still has any doubts, let 'er rip. I'm a straight shooter telling it the way it is, whether it's what people like to hear or not. This is going to be long so bear with me.

First off, I personally have no issues with a legit massage ending with a HJ. It's harmless and even healthy. It's stress relieving and thought by some to reduce blood pressure and risk of getting prostate cancer. Unfortunately the laws in our country don't agree, so legit massage places have to comply. There's also the stigma in our society. Nobody wants their legit spa turning into a jack shack. Also, legit places hire therapists based on their massage skills. They have to or they go out of business. If happy endings become the norm, now it's a slippery slope. You have to hire girls who are good looking, willing to get naked or at least partially naked, willing to give HJs, and don't mind being touched. And then it may not necessarily stop with a HJ. You'll always have customers pushing for more. That's why as much as I advocate for legit massage with happy ending, I don't think happy endings will ever mix with true therapeutic massage in this country. Too many complications. I have a staff full of amazing CMTs, but not one that you'd want to get a HJ from or see naked.

Now, what started this off was someone wondering about getting a HJ from Zeel or Soothe, and I said probably not. That's where the ridicule kicked in. Said poster didn't seem to care much for my professional insight.

Imagine for a moment that you own a legit massage establishment. You invested your life savings in it and literally have everything on the line, including your house as collateral. I'm talking hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line here, nothing you can easily recover from if you screw up. If you lose your business you lose everything. No, this is not unrealistic. It's how most of us finance our businesses. It's extremely scary shit for a few years until you get profitable. Now with all that in mind, don't you think you're going to take every possible measure to protect your business? You bet your ass you will. Now what's one of the biggest things keeping you up at night, other than making rent and payroll every month? You're now a business owner and an employer, and you own a business where your customers get naked behind a closed door with members of your staff. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, you're in the wrong business, or you don't belong in business at all. SO much room for SO many things to go wrong. Lawsuits happen ALL THE FREAKING TIME, all over the country. Two big scenarios loom:

Scenario 1 is the most common: Male MT with female client. Obvious room for misconduct there, and unfortunately it happens frequently. MT improperly exposes the female client, or inappropriately touches something, and she sues you for hundreds of thousands of dollars and probably wins because it's all behind closed doors, her word against yours. You have little to defend yourself with.

Scenario 2 is less common, but still happens more than you probably realize: Female MT seeing male customers who make unwanted advances, try to inappropriately fondle, etc. Female MT sues the business for sexual harassment and not providing a safe, secure work environment. More of a difficult case, but believe me they happen quite a bit.

Various other things worry business owners because of the behind closed door thing. Say an MT gives away expensive upgrades to keep her clients coming back. Things like a hot stone add-on that would normally cost extra she does for free. She's using company supplies, so she's basically stealing from the business. Or say she offers to see a customer outside of work for a cheaper price. Stealing clients from the business. That stuff is hard to monitor and keep in check because you just don't know what happens behind that closed door.

Now consider Zeel, Soothe, and other "delivery" massage places. Now it's more than just "behind a closed door. " Your employee (or independent contractor) is literally in the customer's house and now doesn't have the protections your spa might offer. Unlike a spa where if something goes sideways she can just step out the door into safety, in someone's house it isn't that easy. And it doesn't matter if you live in a nice gated community in OC or if you're in the projects in Watts. Your employee is working in someone else's environment that you have no control over. Again, if that doesn't scare the crap out of you as an employer, then you're totally out of touch with what employers have to deal with every day.

So what do you do? You put whatever controls in place that you can to make DAMN sure you're providing a safe, secure workplace. In a brick & mortar spa it's easy. The CMT can just walk out of the room. Some spas even have hidden panic buttons that the CMT can push to summon help. And you (and your management) make sure that if any guy crosses the line or attempts to cross the line, you throw his sorry ass out of your business and even report to authorities if necessary. You have to back your employees up 100%. If you don't, you're setting yourself up for major trouble.

Secret shoppers: I mentioned this and got openly ridiculed. Being behind closed doors, there's a lot of room for the CMT to cross the line too. Not only sexual misconduct stuff, but stealing products, stealing clients, offering their own retail products that are cheaper than what the spa offers, etc. The ONLY way you stop those things from happening is to plant the thought in their heads that we have people going in for services who report back to us. Every spa owner I've ever met does that. I have a handful of them. Some of them are just friends of mine who are regular customers who tell me what goes on. Some are random people who I reimburse for their massages and nobody but me knows about them. Nobody but me knows how often they come in or how many there are. In reality they don't come in very often. I have a busy spa and don't have to be giving away a lot of services. But the point is they're out there and the staff knows they're out there, so it's a cheap and easy way of keeping them in check. I will stop short of saying I know what Zeel's or Soothe's standard business practices are, but I'd be stunned if they weren't doing something similar. It costs next to nothing and it's an easy quality control tool. You just find a small handful of people who you occasionally have book a massage and give you feedback. They're not employees or even contractors. If you think it's a laughable matter, then again you're out of touch with reality. All it would take would be for a female CMT to get groped in a couple dudes' houses. Best case she quits, worst case she hits you with a harassment / unsafe workplace claim.

Now, I heard Zeel and Soothe compared to delivery services like instacart. Just pay the driver a little extra to make an extra stop on the way and pick up some stuff not normally authorized for delivery, no problem because "everyone needs money. " News flash: Massage isn't instacart, or postmates, or door dash. It's a licensed profession. CMTs have to go to massage school which costs a fair amount of money, and they have to take an exam, and they have to pay licensing fees. They can't legally practice their trade without their credentials. It is their way of making a living. If they do something improper and get their credentials suspended, now they have to find something else to do for a living. It's not like they're just downloading an app that enables them to deliver groceries for money as a little bit of a side gig, and if they get in trouble with that company they just go to a different one. In massage, if you screw up, you're done. You'll never get another massage job again anywhere in the US.

Think there's no "blacklist" for therapists who get in trouble? Think again. Being a licensed profession, every legit massage business that exists does a full background check, not only on new hires, but usually once a year after you've hired them. Part of that background check includes checking in with the state certification agency. If they have an infraction against their license there is no way for them to hide it. All of their current employers will know, and any future prospective employers will know. There's your blacklist. If someone gets fired for giving handjobs or anything else, industry standards demand a thorough investigation, and that includes reporting the incident to the certification board (or licensing board, depending on the state). IN ADDITION TO THAT, there is a relatively new nationwide "Employment Verification Database" for spas that will include any such incidents. Again, this is something that only came about in the past year or so, mostly as a result of the dumbass shenanigans that happen at Massage Envy, but it is quickly gaining traction. Today it is at least theoretically possible that someone could lose their credentials in California, move to another state, go through the licensing process there and completely evade detection. Once the new database gains traction that will no longer be possible since there is a national database in addition to the state database.

Is all of this harsh and over the top? Remember that you're a business owner who probably invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in your business, so you have to go to all extremes to protect that. You don't want to risk losing everything because a couple of your employees were giving handjobs under the table and you chose to look the other way.

So laugh all you want. This is all the reality of the industry and how things work. If you still think this is all "hilarious," I have nothing left to tell you that will change your opinion.

[ChrisPoontang]

Here's an interesting study that I found online. Some informative info.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4529837/That is interesting. I'd like to see a study that shows if there is a correlation between massage parlors and prostate cancer.

I would argue that communities served by massage parlors have lower rates of prostate cancer since guys have more chances to empty their sacks.

Obviously I would want the peer reviewed article to use phrases like emptying sacks, blowing wads, shooting loads and bareback grannies.

[Grimmy23]

Here's an interesting study that I found online. Some informative info.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4529837/One obvious thing they totally overlooked. It's a little complicated, but in California we have a massage "certification" instead of a massage license. The difference is that certification is voluntary- some cities require it to practice massage within their limits, some don't. Some cities are far more lax with their muni codes than others. Guess where the MPs tend to cluster. I haven't done any formal research, but places like Stanton that have a bunch of MPs don't require certification. Cities with strict enforcement of massage regulations generally don't have MPs.

As I've mentioned before, some of the legislators are pushing hard to move California to a licensing structure. We're one of only 3 states that doesn't have one. I'm working to prevent that, not just for the sake of the hobby but for many other reasons.

[Taws6]

but places like Stanton that have a bunch of MPs don't require certification. Cities with strict enforcement of massage regulations generally don't have MPs.Too bad we don't have a list of cities that are small business friendly.

[Grimmy23]

Too bad we don't have a list of cities that are small business friendly.If you mean AMP friendly, you don't need a list. We all know where the hot spots are. If there's a lot of MPs there that have been around a long time, you know what the city's attitude about them is.

My city is very small business friendly, but its muni code requires all massage workers to be CAMTC certified. If you're a legit massage place the certification is a given anyway. You're not going to hire anyone who isn't certified so it’s not that big of a deal. Some cities will only require one person on staff to be certified, or one certified person must be on shift at any given time. Cypress and Stanton are like that. Of course it's no surprise that when they get visited for a random inspection there's never any certified therapists to be found. It's all a matter of how lax the city wants to be in its enforcement.

Years ago when I lived in Downey, and long before I ever thought I'd find myself owning a spa, I went on a ride along with a Downey PD officer for a day. He actually pointed out every MP in town to me. There are about 6 of them and they've all been around for 20-30 years. He pointed out the blacked out windows, the neon open sign, all that stuff. He said they know exactly what goes on in there, but as long as they don't become a public nuisance and draw a lot of complaints they generally just let them be. They'd rather have it happening in there where it's contained and relatively harmless than in say the cheap motels in town where there's usually other stuff going on (drugs, street prostitution, armed robberies, and various other criminal activity). There's even an AMP in Downey right across the street from a high school. It's been there for at least 25 years and it doesn't bother anybody. If you weren't a monger you wouldn't even know it existed. Now if used condoms started showing up in the neighborhood that would be a different story.

[Nitescape]

I got ridiculedNice info, but I suspect some of your motivation is drama and territorial. I haven't got time for that.

ON THE TOPIC, there will always be a struggle between govt and private business. Any person who is a fan of free markets, opportunity, and not having a nanny-state run your life should be against authoritarianism (generally speaking). As the business owner here points out, there are some forces in play that could really fuck things up for your favorite hobby, and not just in mainstream massage / spa places. The more that people roll over or roll out the welcome mat for authoritarianism, the more govt will come in. I wonder how many people are aware, for example, of the bills being pushed through the CA legislature right now, that will do things like create a statewide vaccine database, mandate every employer to comply, take away parental authority and awareness of their own child, etc. There's a reason why so many people and businesses are fleeing the state and why homelessness and crime are skyrocketing.

I think it's smart to be cautious and strategic. I don't think it's smart (or helpful) to roll-over for authoritarianism, nor facilitate it.

As for Zeel / Soothe, they don't even respond to messages from their therapists so I highly doubt they are engaged to the point of "secret shoppers" to make sure no one gives a handjob in the privacy of your own home amidst two consenting adults. I'm also pretty sure there is no mandate by the state that a business send out "secret shoppers" in order to avoid liability. But this is the society we've created, where comedians are afraid to tell a joke, males on a college campus are afraid to look at a female, and people are afraid to even think a common sense thought, for fear of authorities.

Whether someone wants to admit it or not, half the appeal of massage is pleasure (at least half). Yes you can create a sterile, therapeutic, examination room atmosphere to ensure that no one ever feels a moment of pleasure and so that there is almost no chance of a frivolous lawsuit, but just like mandates and most other govt regulations, you're going to kill your own market. And as there are less businesses, less customers, less jobs, less people with money. Desperation grows, and even the people who think they are in a safe niche will get touched (eventually).

On a side note, a CMT friend of mine would tell me stories (this was 4-5 years ago) about a 5-star resort spa in the Newport Beach area where the girls weren't just giving HJs but were doing the whole nine. Some people want to make money, as opposed to being good little subjects to authoritarians. And I would argue that safety and discretion are more valued by most smart business owners as opposed to corrupt govt bureaucrats, who simply use that notion as a pretext in order to gain power and control over the populace. But govt and authoritarians are definitely on the March, and who knows, maybe we'll end-up like Australia where we can't come out of our own homes except for 1 hour out of the day and with our smartphone to monitor our position and activity at all times.

[SaltyDog]

Since a few people like to ridicule my expertise and insight on the legit massage industry, and I don't want to get into another pissing match on the MP thread, I thought I'd elaborate here. And if anybody still has any doubts, let 'er rip. I'm a straight shooter telling it the way it is, whether it's what people like to hear or not. This is going to be long so bear with me.

First off, I personally have no issues with a legit massage ending with a HJ. It's harmless and even healthy. It's stress relieving and thought by some to reduce blood pressure and risk of getting prostate cancer. Unfortunately the laws in our country don't agree, so legit massage places have to comply. There's also the stigma in our society. Nobody wants their legit spa turning into a jack shack. Also, legit places hire therapists based on their massage skills. They have to or they go out of business. If happy endings become the norm, now it's a slippery slope. You have to hire girls who are good looking, willing to get naked or at least partially naked, willing to give HJs, and don't mind being touched. And then it may not necessarily stop with a HJ. You'll always have customers pushing for more. That's why as much as I advocate for legit massage with happy ending, I don't think happy endings will ever mix with true therapeutic massage in this country. Too many complications. I have a staff full of amazing CMTs, but not one that you'd want to get a HJ from or see naked.

Now, what started this off was someone wondering about getting a HJ from Zeel or Soothe, and I said probably not. That's where the ridicule kicked in. Said poster didn't seem to care much for my professional insight.

Imagine for a moment that you own a legit massage establishment. You invested your life savings in it and literally have everything on the line, including your house as collateral. I'm talking hundreds of thousands of dollars on the line here, nothing you can easily recover from if you screw up. If you lose your business you lose everything. No, this is not unrealistic. It's how most of us finance our businesses. It's extremely scary shit for a few years until you get profitable. Now with all that in mind, don't you think you're going to take every possible measure to protect your business? You bet your ass you will. Now what's one of the biggest things keeping you up at night, other than making rent and payroll every month? You're now a business owner and an employer, and you own a business where your customers get naked behind a closed door with members of your staff. If that doesn't scare the shit out of you, you're in the wrong business, or you don't belong in business at all. SO much room for SO many things to go wrong. Lawsuits happen ALL THE FREAKING TIME, all over the country. Two big scenarios loom:

Scenario 1 is the most common: Male MT with female client. Obvious room for misconduct there, and unfortunately it happens frequently. MT improperly exposes the female client, or inappropriately touches something, and she sues you for hundreds of thousands of dollars and probably wins because it's all behind closed doors, her word against yours. You have little to defend yourself with.

Scenario 2 is less common, but still happens more than you probably realize: Female MT seeing male customers who make unwanted advances, try to inappropriately fondle, etc. Female MT sues the business for sexual harassment and not providing a safe, secure work environment. More of a difficult case, but believe me they happen quite a bit.

Various other things worry business owners because of the behind closed door thing. Say an MT gives away expensive upgrades to keep her clients coming back. Things like a hot stone add-on that would normally cost extra she does for free. She's using company supplies, so she's basically stealing from the business. Or say she offers to see a customer outside of work for a cheaper price. Stealing clients from the business. That stuff is hard to monitor and keep in check because you just don't know what happens behind that closed door.

Now consider Zeel, Soothe, and other "delivery" massage places. Now it's more than just "behind a closed door. " Your employee (or independent contractor) is literally in the customer's house and now doesn't have the protections your spa might offer. Unlike a spa where if something goes sideways she can just step out the door into safety, in someone's house it isn't that easy. And it doesn't matter if you live in a nice gated community in OC or if you're in the projects in Watts. Your employee is working in someone else's environment that you have no control over. Again, if that doesn't scare the crap out of you as an employer, then you're totally out of touch with what employers have to deal with every day.

So what do you do? You put whatever controls in place that you can to make DAMN sure you're providing a safe, secure workplace. In a brick & mortar spa it's easy. The CMT can just walk out of the room. Some spas even have hidden panic buttons that the CMT can push to summon help. And you (and your management) make sure that if any guy crosses the line or attempts to cross the line, you throw his sorry ass out of your business and even report to authorities if necessary. You have to back your employees up 100%. If you don't, you're setting yourself up for major trouble.

Secret shoppers: I mentioned this and got openly ridiculed. Being behind closed doors, there's a lot of room for the CMT to cross the line too. Not only sexual misconduct stuff, but stealing products, stealing clients, offering their own retail products that are cheaper than what the spa offers, etc. The ONLY way you stop those things from happening is to plant the thought in their heads that we have people going in for services who report back to us. Every spa owner I've ever met does that. I have a handful of them. Some of them are just friends of mine who are regular customers who tell me what goes on. Some are random people who I reimburse for their massages and nobody but me knows about them. Nobody but me knows how often they come in or how many there are. In reality they don't come in very often. I have a busy spa and don't have to be giving away a lot of services. But the point is they're out there and the staff knows they're out there, so it's a cheap and easy way of keeping them in check. I will stop short of saying I know what Zeel's or Soothe's standard business practices are, but I'd be stunned if they weren't doing something similar. It costs next to nothing and it's an easy quality control tool. You just find a small handful of people who you occasionally have book a massage and give you feedback. They're not employees or even contractors. If you think it's a laughable matter, then again you're out of touch with reality. All it would take would be for a female CMT to get groped in a couple dudes' houses. Best case she quits, worst case she hits you with a harassment / unsafe workplace claim.

Now, I heard Zeel and Soothe compared to delivery services like instacart. Just pay the driver a little extra to make an extra stop on the way and pick up some stuff not normally authorized for delivery, no problem because "everyone needs money. " News flash: Massage isn't instacart, or postmates, or door dash. It's a licensed profession. CMTs have to go to massage school which costs a fair amount of money, and they have to take an exam, and they have to pay licensing fees. They can't legally practice their trade without their credentials. It is their way of making a living. If they do something improper and get their credentials suspended, now they have to find something else to do for a living. It's not like they're just downloading an app that enables them to deliver groceries for money as a little bit of a side gig, and if they get in trouble with that company they just go to a different one. In massage, if you screw up, you're done. You'll never get another massage job again anywhere in the US.

Think there's no "blacklist" for therapists who get in trouble? Think again. Being a licensed profession, every legit massage business that exists does a full background check, not only on new hires, but usually once a year after you've hired them. Part of that background check includes checking in with the state certification agency. If they have an infraction against their license there is no way for them to hide it. All of their current employers will know, and any future prospective employers will know. There's your blacklist. If someone gets fired for giving handjobs or anything else, industry standards demand a thorough investigation, and that includes reporting the incident to the certification board (or licensing board, depending on the state). IN ADDITION TO THAT, there is a relatively new nationwide "Employment Verification Database" for spas that will include any such incidents. Again, this is something that only came about in the past year or so, mostly as a result of the dumbass shenanigans that happen at Massage Envy, but it is quickly gaining traction. Today it is at least theoretically possible that someone could lose their credentials in California, move to another state, go through the licensing process there and completely evade detection. Once the new database gains traction that will no longer be possible since there is a national database in addition to the state database.

Is all of this harsh and over the top? Remember that you're a business owner who probably invested hundreds of thousands of dollars in your business, so you have to go to all extremes to protect that. You don't want to risk losing everything because a couple of your employees were giving handjobs under the table and you chose to look the other way.

So laugh all you want. This is all the reality of the industry and how things work. If you still think this is all "hilarious," I have nothing left to tell you that will change your opinion.Even with 14 paragraphs I ain't laughing. I hear ya!!

[BenderOver]

Can someone go today?Holy crap Slammer? Why the campaign? I get she's going to be gone a bit, but are you asking us to TOFFT or to go and see the beauty you discovered and already conquered? .

*thumbs up* buddy.

[Grimmy23]

Nice info, but I suspect some of your motivation is drama and territorial. I haven't got time for that.
.I will however staunchly defend the mainstream spa industry, as many people don't know how to distinguish it from massages in this hobby.

One area where you're a bit misguided is the reason people get massages. Years ago you got a massage to pamper yourself when you were on vacation. You were on a cruise ship or in a luxury resort and said what the hell, I'll drop a couple hundred bucks on a massage. These days, people get massages more regularly as a lifestyle choice. The emergence and growth of membership massage places like mine that make getting regular massages affordable has driven that. Yes, some are about pleasure and relaxation, but a large chunk of my clients get massages because they have some sort of chronic pain. CMTs are trained to work with that. The massages might even hurt like fucking hell, but the client feels better after leaving. If you know CMTs, most of them consider themselves healers. They're often very zen about it. Are there some that provide extras? Of course. I know a CMT operating her own private practice out of an office in Lakewood who will give you a HJ without batting an eye about it. But those are the minority. The vast majority take their training very seriously and get quite offended at any sexual innuendo over what they do. And as I pointed out, we (the spas) hire MTs based on their skills, not their looks or ability to give a good release. Anybody can jerk a guy off, but finding a trigger point that is causing a client pain and taking the steps to relieve that pain requires a lot of training. I have 14 MTs on my staff right now and you wouldn't necessarily want to see any of them naked or get a HJ from any of them.

My estheticians on the other hand are all under 30 and all pretty hot, and we've had guys try to cross the line with them by either flat out asking for a handjob or just grabbing their ass. Fortunately it has been very few because it doesn't end well for the guy. I'll just leave it at that without elaborating, but in every case where it has happened I've had a very shaken young female employee to deal with who I usually had to send home for the rest of the day. That costs me a lot of money in cancelled appointments but I do what I need to do and take care of my team. So yeah, some women will push all boundaries aside for the sake of making more money, but the vast majority won't.

Back to Soothe / Zeel. Again, I don't know their business practices, but if they aren't doing something to prevent stuff from happening, they're extremely foolish and putting their business in danger. Not even just sexual stuff. What about the "hey, give me a call directly next time instead of using the app and I'll give you a cheaper price?" You are correct in that there is no mandate to do that. They aren't even mandated to run background checks, but they're morons if they don't. There has to be a deterrent in place. It's kind of like a burglar alarm on your house. It's not going to catch a burglar. If someone breaks in they're going to smash a window, grab what they want, and be long gone before the cops even get dispatched. But having the alarm system makes it far less likely that you get broken into. Hell, even having just a sign outside saying you have an alarm makes you a less likely target even if you don't really have an alarm. Same thing applies here. You have to at least tell them that you're monitoring "for quality control purposes. " Even if you're not actually doing it, they're far less likely to stray from protocol if they think they just might get caught. And if someone does for example get caught in a sting and LE comes after your business, you can open your operations manual and employee manual and show them that you have procedures in place, and that takes a lot of legal burden off. I actually do it in my business, albeit not very often, but just often enough that I have documented records that we have preventative procedures in place.

I suspect Zeel and Soothe are trying to do what Uber tried (but failed) when AB5 passed. Uber basically said "we're not in the transportation business. We're in the software business. All we do is write an app that independent drivers use to find customers looking for rides. " It didn't fly with the courts.

[Taws6]

Would have cost you $20, FS was $60. Door rate were about the same though $40/ hh and $60/ hr.I see a lot of posts recently about stability of prices. Or lack there of.

Some talk as been dated. Back a few decades. Apart from a trusted word of mouth, I would think that finding a reliable FS place was somewhat risky. Sure, take one for the team, but that would be hit or miss, and a lower yield endeavor.

With the internet and rating sites / review boards, I would think the demand has increased, with more mongers willing to venture out and get "into the hobby" where prior, it might have kept a large percentage of what we see now out. I know for me, I don't have buddies that we talk about fun outside. No one wants that risk of a coworker ratting, or a "friend" turning on you.

That would make me think that demand would push prices up.

However, the other side of that coin is with the review boards etc, the low mileage rub & tugs would loose business to the higher level of service places. Demand pushing the supply into more services to retain and attract customers, and new shops entering the market to meet the specific demand of FS entertainment.

I don't know the answer, but I would suspect that if fellow mongers continue to push places where reliable quality and service are to be had for a reasonable rate fewer recommendations for higher price point venues, that collectively, the consumer can drive the market. But I could be wrong.

[Nitescape]

Back to Soothe / Zeel. Again, I don't know their business practices, but if they aren't doing something to prevent stuff from happening, they're extremely foolish and putting their business in danger. Not even just sexual stuff. What about the "hey, give me a call directly next time instead of using the app and I'll give you a cheaper price?" You are correct in that there is no mandate to do that. They aren't even mandated to run background checks, but they're morons if they don't. First, I totally agree with you that there is a market of people who just want therapeutic massage. I get that. My take tho, and this is just my personal opinion, is that it's akin to people who go out for healthy food. Yes, some people just want a quick meal for nutrition, and nothing else matters, and that's it. On the other hand, there are people who care about nutrition, but they also like some nice atmosphere, maybe an outdoor patio to smoke and mingle, etc. With the way things are going, many small businesses are going to close (if they haven't already). For example, many people I know will never patronize a restaurant again if they ask for a vaccination card. And many others (including myself) have stopped going to bars or clubs, because even before the pandemic, the atmospheres have become largely pointless in trying to mingle. The fun has been taken away, so why waste 15 dollars per drink, and 50 bucks on a meal.

What are the REAL issues? It seems you concede that the main issues are: safety, disloyalty (not selling the parlor's products but their own), and that's pretty much it. And these two issues can be addressed effectively with some effort. The real issue is THE GOVERNMENT. And are any of us pretending that the govt has noble intentions and is doing anything for our best interests? You yourself said that the entire hobby is at risk once the few places that can operate without license are taken away. And that sucks for the girls / providers, it sucks for the entrepreneurs, it sucks for the local economy, and it sucks for all the regular people who want services they can enjoy. To pretend that the govt is anyone's friend is to facilitate the authoritarianism that we are at war with. And for anyone here who enjoys this "hobby", you can't be ok with that unless you're ignorant to your own interests.

As to the other business issues, these are present in many venues. Every business who has sales people has to deal with the reality / possibility that their sales people will make side deals, or will join another company. That's nothing new. And I know of very few of these who send out "spies" to try to stop it from happening. You would end-up spending way more on the spies than if you just operated normally and let the chips fell. Sure a girl might scoop a customer in private here or there, but the free-market entrepreneur understands that a market isn't a set pie. That market grows and contracts, and often times when you have competitors you have access to much more profit and opportunity because that market is bigger. If there is a Downtown area with just one restaurant, it's often going to have less customers than a Downtown that has a lot of restaurants because the Downtown with a lot of restaurants becomes an attraction and pulls in a lot more people.

Also, specifically with massage, if a girl says "hey you can hire me privately", then she loses the assets of the place / agency she's working with. A girl on Zeel / Soothe goes on calls where there is a customer record. If anything goes wrong, there is more chance of recourse, and as such, it's much more of a deterrent than it would be if she takes that client privately. Even still, if that went on more often, how many more clients would Zeel / Soothe have? You know damned well that "mongers" want to see different girls. If this were more of a possibility, then Zeel / Soothe (and their girls) would likely have a lot more business and revenue. Which would be a good thing, would it not?

Anyways, this is just some of my thoughts, and I certainly am not claiming to have all the answers. I just think that today's victim-culture bullshit is infecting us all to the point where we lose the ability for common sense. It reminds me of the type of woman who works in Vegas as a cocktail waitress, but walks around with the "I'm oppressed" mindset because she's getting flirting attention. You specifically came to Vegas and the casinos because you know there is money to be made there. The whole reason there's money to be made there is because it's a fun atmosphere with the reputation of "Sin City". You could easily go to a conservative / traditional area and establishment, if that's what your values are. But you want the benefits of a culture / environment, while playing the victim and complaining as you receive those benefits. And if you are given your way, those benefits will dry up because so will that culture / environment.

[Grimmy23]

First, I totally agree with you that there is a market of people who just want therapeutic massage. I get that. My take tho, and this is just my personal opinion, is that it's akin to people who go out for healthy food. Yes, some people just want a quick meal for nutrition, and nothing else matters, and that's it. On the other hand, there are people who care about nutrition, but they also like some nice atmosphere, maybe an outdoor patio to smoke and mingle, etc..You are on point with your restaurant analogy. I've used my steak dinner analogy here many times. You want a steak dinner so you can go to Ruth's Chris and easily drop $100 a plate. Or you can go to Outback for $30, or a place like Norms for even less. There are people who will claim the cheap diner steak is just as good. It isn't even close, at least not to anyone with a refined enough palate to be able to distinguish good food from crap. The difference in the spa industry is most people will find their one therapist that they like and keep going back to that one. In contrast, in our little hobby, most of us like to have a variety of girls available to keep things interesting.

On the safety aspect, you're also correct in that other industries face many of the same things. Again, massage is a little bit unique in that our therapists are behind a closed door with a naked client and touching them all over (almost). That in itself brings liabilities you don't have with say someone going door to door selling solar panels.

Re: government, I don’t think too many people want authoritarianism, but “reasonable regulation” has a lot of importance to nearly everybody, whether they care to admit it or not. We don’t want the roads full of untrained, unlicensed drivers. When we go out to eat we want to feel reasonably comfortable that we aren’t going to get food poisoned because the restaurant has poor sanitation. When we get a therapeutic massage we want to be reasonably sure that we aren’t going to get injured by a therapist who doesn’t know what in the hell she’s doing, and that we aren’t going to catch some infectious disease by laying on sheets soiled in someone else’s bodily fluids. Granted, not too many people get injured from massage, but believe it or not it does happen. And there are a lot of things that are potentially dangerous. Have you ever been to an AMP where they used hot stones on you? Awesome. It feels amazing. But did you know that there are certain medical conditions where hot stone massage is contraindicated and can be potentially dangerous? Pretty good bet that the AMP that used the hot stones didn’t do a proper intake to gather that information - they just plopped the stones on you without asking. Diabetes, hypertension, cancer, heart disease, are autoimmune conditions are just a few conditions where hot stones can cause serious problems. That’s where training and regulation come in. And yes, licensing. Now again, California doesn’t have a license per se, it has a certification, which more or less serves the same purpose (assuring proper training and adherence to certain established protocols). The difference between the two has a lot of nuances that I won’t get into here.

If California goes to massage licensing, and there's a very real chance that it will happen after this year, I think the effect on the types of massage places that we discuss on this site will be fairly minimal. Almost every other state has massage licensing, and they all still have MPs. There will be a noticeable effect on some level though. Basically if any city decides that they don't want MPs on their turf they now have an easy way to push them out. Places like the much reviewed Bamboo for example- if Westminster decided they didn't want erotic massage in their town, Bamboo would have one choice. Get all of the girls licensed or find another town to set up shop in. A lot of cities around here don't really care about MPs as long as they aren't a public nuisance and there's no trafficking going on. They'd rather have that stuff in an MP where it's contained than in a cheap motel where there's a bunch of other crap going on. Cypress is one city that recently has been trying to squeeze out its MPs, but it's not so easy under the current structure. With licensing they just send code enforcement in and "oh, nobody here is licensed? Then you can't operate. " I'm not in favor of licensing- I'm part of the other side that's actively fighting to maintain more or less status quo. It's because California is a beast of a state with more government than most countries, and licensing here will turn into a bureaucratic cluster fuck. The industry doesn't need that. It's a tough fight though and still very much up in the air as to which way it will go. One way or another, by the end of this year we will either have licensing or we won't.

If it were up to me we'd have legalized body rub establishments in California, very much like they do in Toronto. You can go into one, get jerked off by a completely naked provider, even get some nuru type action or a soapy shower massage with full mutual touch, and it's all 100% legal. Toronto still has AMPs that are offering FS which is technically illegal, but if you want to go the cleaner, safer, legal route you can. The body rub places at least you know are clean because they are subject to the same health regulations as the therapeutic spas. That's one thing that grosses me out a little about MPs here. The sanitation standards at most are highly questionable. I even wonder about Bamboo a little bit. With as much traffic as they get, and knowing first hand what spa operations are like, I can't for the life of me figure out how they're getting all of their sheets and towels washed. You can't possibly do that much laundry. It hasn't stopped me from going to Bamboo but there are a lot of other AMPs I won't visit out of sanitary concerns.

[Nitescape]

We dont want the roads full of untrained, unlicensed drivers. I haven't finished reading the rest of your comment, but saw this and got triggered.

Bruh. Have you seen the highways these days? Have you seen the condition of the roads?

Anyways, I guess it's obvious at this point that I'm pretty anti-govt. I believe Thomas Paine said it best way back in 1787:

"Government even in its best state, is but a necessary evil. In its worst, an intolerable one."

[Nitescape]

A sincere thanks for the good info.

The rest is just more opinion on methods to achieve the same goals. In other words, the higher quality, intelligent, responsible "mongers" should care about safety and taking care of the business establishments just as much as a business owner like yourself. Now some people are low quality, cheap and tacky, and don't want to show proper support for those who provide the services and products they enjoy. And that sucks, but those are stupid, less desirable customers. Personally, I want to take care of those who take care of me. I do accounting but I don't always comb through a bill once I receive it. I've usually already done my research, and know that a place is providing good quality, so I want to support them, as opposed to trying to squeeze the bare minimum profit from them. I know that's not the norm tho, unfortunately.

I'd concede that some govt regulation can help, but I guess I'm pretty jaded at this point of time in history / society, and I'm pretty through with govt and their shenanigans. Some of the most basic shit they're supposed to take care of, they don't do; However they are excellent at facilitating wealth transfer to the top 1% (because that is who funds them to do so) at the expense of the small business and rest of the populace. But I prob have ranted long enough.

I'll just share one more thought on the Safety issue. First, I did not know that about hot stones and that is an excellent example. I do think however, that this could also be addressed by the free market better than govt regulation, because once a couple establishments get sued for injuries they caused, the motivation would be there for them to begin behaving responsibly. On the other side of that, I don't believe we always need to protect idiots at the cost of the rest of us, and this is precisely what is fucking-up our society. We've tried this experiment of creating a Utopia where everyone can walk around like a child with absolutely zero personal responsibility, and this leads to one thing. Govt being put in a place of power and control as the alleged solution. When I'm coming home late at night and hungry, I personally don't just stop at the random food truck, because I'm a person who values my health and what I put into my body. I have friends tho that will eat anything anywhere as tho they are wild dogs. Once they get food poisoning, maybe they'll begin to be a little more selective, but govt regulation or not, the more these idiots are willing to shovel garbage into their bodies, the more others will be willing to take advantage of that. McDonald's, Taco Bell and KFC are absolute poison, yet they are able to bypass regulation and there are trillions of lowlifes who still patronize these places. That's the reality of humanity and the world we live in.

Anyways, thanks for letting me vent / rant.

[Grimmy23]

I see a lot of posts recently about stability of prices. Or lack there of.

Some talk as been dated. Back a few decades. Apart from a trusted word of mouth, I would think that finding a reliable FS place was somewhat risky. Sure, take one for the team, but that would be hit or miss, and a lower yield endeavor.

With the internet and rating sites / review boards, I would think the demand has increased, with more mongers willing to venture out and get "into the hobby" where prior, it might have kept a large percentage of what we see now out. I know for me, I don't have buddies that we talk about fun outside. No one wants that risk of a coworker ratting, or a "friend" turning on you.

That would make me think that demand would push prices up.

However, the other side of that coin is with the review boards etc, the low mileage rub & tugs would loose business to the higher level of service places. Demand pushing the supply into more services to retain and attract customers, and new shops entering the market to meet the specific demand of FS entertainment.

I don't know the answer, but I would suspect that if fellow mongers continue to push places where reliable quality and service are to be had for a reasonable rate fewer recommendations for higher price point venues, that collectively, the consumer can drive the market. But I could be wrong.I think things have changed somewhat due to the Internet and availability of info. Back in the day we used to have something called the Yellow Pages. Just look for Massage in the phone book and there would usually be places listed, and it was pretty clear which ones offered extras. Same buzz words as today. Nice girls, all Asian staff, international staff, etc. I honestly don't know how I navigated my first MP experience. I remember it vividly though. I was asked if it was my first time, I foolishly said yes, was led to a room, told to undress and lay down on my stomach, and 5 minutes later the girl came in and got started. Somehow I just instinctively knew to rub her leg when she was within reach. I ended up getting a HJ. She just made the HJ sign and I nodded my head yes. I don't even remember giving a tip. I didn't know it was necessary, and she didn't say anything. Somehow I just gained experience from repeat visits and things got better. This was an old reliable place in Downey that's still around.

There was also the LA X-Press. Those little rag newspapers that you used to pay a quarter for on city sidewalks. The ones with pics of topless girls with stars covering their nipples on the front page. You'd just go through and shop the ads and hope you got lucky with a good one.

The services you went for back then were a bit different though. I'd say a little less expectation of FS and a little more HJ and "nude modeling. " I used to go to these places operating out of big houses in Bel Air. Their ads in X-Press said something like "I am a real college girl, not a pro, and I give an erotic full body massage at my place nude. " They had super hot young white girls that definitely could have walked right off the campus of UCLA. They also seemed pretty inexperienced, so their "not a pro" was very plausible. The girls would basically just get naked and spend an hour having nice conversation and rubbing their oiled tits across your chest until it was time for the finish. A couple of the girls I saw barely knew how to give a HJ. I had to help one of them. Could have been an act of course but if so she did an incredible job of playing innocent. There was a girl there that I would have legitimately dated if I could have. She was about my age and had a great personality. All of that in itself made the experience kind of hot for me. You just don't find services like that anymore. I think the reviews would come out that they have hot girls but all they do is HJ and some of them suck at it. It's all about getting the BJ or FS now.

Then there were places like Suzettes Modeling Studio where you'd pay to have a girl give you a strip show in a private room and then she'd jerk you off or blow you. And the lingerie modeling places where eventually the lingerie would come off and you'd get a HJ. All kinds of unique stuff that just doesn't exist anymore.

AMPs are still AMPs. They haven't changed a bit in the 30+ years I've been in the hobby. Everything was always available there. The difference was you learned it was available by going back a few times and being offered more. It's the other varieties of places that are a bit harder to find now and / or much more expensive, like the nuru places, which aren’t even real nuru and a lot of people consider nothing more than an overpriced handjob.