Prostitution and Law Enforcement

[Lorenzo]

TallnHandsome,

I think what you're talking about is jaywalking, which is defined as crossing a street anywhere but at an intersection which has a crosswalk or a handicap access ramp, which, unbeknownst to most pedestrians and drivers, has the same status as a crosswalk (a cop told me this). You will definitely get a ticket for jaywalking across a major or busy thoroughfare in LA. The LAPD is pretty agggressive about this. Last I heard, the fine was $50. There is good reason for this; two well known people in the past ten years have been killed after being hit by cars while jaywalking across Wilshire Blvd. One was a female school board member, the other was the activist and former Yippie Jerry Rubin. Who knows how many unknowns have had a similar fate that doesn't merit printing in the paper.

In years past the LAPD had a reputation for stopping any pedestrian who "looked suspicious," which usually meant being black or Latino, especially in a white neighborhood. They no longer do this, thanks largely to some successful law suits.

That's the situation in LA. As for the rest of CA, I can't say. Jaywalking is illegal anywhere in the state, but whether the laws are enforced anywhere outside the City of the Angels, I don't know.

Lorenzo

[Mangus Man]

Civvy.
Maybe I exaggerated slightly, but when I said 5 stings a week, I'm talking about
for all of the PD's from Miami Beach, to Hialeah, Hollywood, Ft.Lauderdale, Boca, Delray, Lake Worth, West Palm, to Tampa, Orlando and Jacksonville, and everywhere in between, etc. etc. Don't know how well you know SoFla, but there's over 5 million in these 3 counties alone, that's plenty of work, and unlimited supply of suckers and their cash. Everybody's gotta work, and everybody gets paid, and everyone wants to get laid. This is not something they don't know. Instead of your cash going for pussy, it goes to pussy police.

Only 5 arrests in a sting? More like 5 in an hour, on a slow night. They rotate crews, so as soon as they drag one fool away in cuffs, they second crew's ready for the next sucker. There's enough female employees now that they don't run out of decoys.
Compared to the frightening crack monsters that walk these streets, any female that isn't dripping green ooze down her thighs is gonna have cars lined up down the block, just waiting their turn to get trapped. 15 cops? How about 5 plus the decoy. 2 teams of 2 for the takedown, plus one at the table to process the marks, plus the decoy. Oh, I forgot the paddy wagon driver, sorry!

Just read where they post the names. It always goes on for 2 pages. 20 to 25 is probably average. Pinto or Porsche, it don't matter. If you need to drive to work, its $1000 or no car. Obviously, for Jose the drunk gardner who was looking for a $5 blowjob from the major's secretary, he won't even have the cash to bail out, let alone get his jalopy back. But they'll let him make payments, and squeeze every dollar out of him that they can. And remember, that's only the start. By the time you finish paying the lawyer, who by no coincidence used to be the prosecutor and set the whole scam up with the judge and the cops, you're looking at another $3500. Again, a few years running the scam, and its in the millions.

Finally, you are 1000% mistaken saying that seizing cars is what reduces activity.
What reduces activity is picking up all the girls, and then stinging the customers and locking them up. The cars is ONLY about cash. Just look at any other city in the country that runs stings but doesn't charge $1000 to give back your car.
They reduce activity just as much. Down here, the only thing that stops the cars from pulling up to proposition officer skank ***** for a hummer, is when they close up shop for the night at 1 or 2 am. The difference between here and other states, is that other states aren't doing it for revenue, because they won't get away with it.
Here, that IS "the game", that's from the city attorney himself, not me! Some cities, they just give you a fucking ticket, and you pay a $50 fine. Here, you can spend 2 or 3 days in the can until they even let you bail out.

Facts are in the bank accounts you'll never see. The game in SoFla is serious business, get rich, get out. Greed rules, and its easier than taking candy from a baby down here. Busting upper level drug cases, bank robbers, killers, man that's too fucking dangerous, they might get shot, are you crazy?

[Civ2000]

Mangus, Points well taken and I may have to change my position on a couple of items.

I do disagree however that seizing cars does not reduce activity. In places like Long Beach, California where they had been seizing cars activity was greatly reduced. It's one thing to risk a small fine for solicitation but the thought that you may lose your vehicle or have to pay a large amount to get it back is a great deterrent. I know a couple of guys who were arrested for prostitution and their wifes never even found out. But try explaining to your wife why the new SUV is gone.

Also, the type of car does matter. I've got a brand new truck and I'm looking for a cheap beater car for mongering. If they take my junker away, I will certainly not pay a grand to get it back, rather I'll just buy another junker. In a lot of places you pay 15% to get it back which in my case would be about $5000.

Also, the supreme court has ruled that when drugs are found in a car they are considered to be in the possession of all the occupants of the vehicle. Now, how many SW's do you know that might possibly be carrying a crack pipe? Lots. They can keep your car permanently in this scenario and then you'd be really glad you were driving the Pinto instead of the Porsche.

Generally the stings don't reduce activity too much because it is usually "Jose the gardener" or some newby that they catch. I would guesstimate that 90% of the mongers who pick up SW's on this board never get caught in stings because we know what to look out for.

My mongering days are over for a while until I find a cheap car. My city does not seize for solicitation but does for drugs and I've lost count of the number of crack pipes I've found in my car after a date.

Is it just me or does anyone have a clue what TallnHandsome is asking? His question was lost on me.

Civ

[Merlin Magician]

Great news today in Phoenix. About 60 of the alleged prostitution cases filed by Sheriff Joes inept bumblers have been dismissed because of investigator misconduct.

Dumb MCSO shits need to go back to enforcing the law out in the county instead of trying to lead a moral crusade against hard working people trying to have a little fun in town.

[Smut Villian]

****************************************************
Civ2000 asks:

"Is it just me or does anyone have a clue what TallnHandsome is asking? His question was lost on me. "

****************************************************

Civ,

I think he may be refering to how some jurisdictions will harass a girl for loitering, etc. when in actuality they're trying to discourage streetwalkers from working. They will sometimes use some weak-assed excuse or criteria to justify this harassment, but both the cops and the hookers know what's really going down.

I know this because they do it all the time in my town; it's why I don't do the SW scene anymore ( I stick to the stripclubs. Get into the right one and extras can be had for less than you think).

S.V.

[Mangus Man]

Ok Civvy.

I totally forgot about getting pulled over after I've picked up a REAL SW, so you reminded me that it did happen way way back in the 80's in a very bad part of Miami when I whipped a u-turn after realizing the neighborhood that the ho had told me to drive through. An undercover narc in a real bad mood yanked me out of my car and was frantically searching every inch of my vehicle, thinking that we had already made a buy. But the ho was only trying to get me to take her to her pusher to score, and when I figured out what was up, I said fuck no, we're outa here, and that's when we got stopped.

Every vein in this cops bald sunburned head was bulging out and about to explode, and then he finds my speargun in my trunk and yells at me "A HA!!! WHAT IS THIS???" I said I go spearfishing you moron, look and you'll see my mask fins and snorkel and dive flag in the mesh bag in the trunk. He went crazy after that and I was sure he was going to stroke out right there, but finally screamed at me to fuck off and never come back. I grudge fucked that damn ho hard enough to make her walk funny for a few days after putting me through that nightmare.

Your story about 15%, or $5K to get back a car is totally insane, jesus fuck hell,
five fucking thousand????

I still disagree that seizing IS ONLY about the cash, not activity, because if you have enough money on you, you can sometimes bail out and get your car as soon as you get to the impound lot. The only extra step here to really scare customers away is when they publish photos of who gets arrested in the newspaper AND on fucking billboards! That was the West Palm female piece of shit mayor's brainstorm. What a complete loser, that's her life's work contribution to politics and civil service because she's so ugly no one will fuck her, not even a blind man.
But not having your wife find out is impossible, because after you're arrested, the cops give all the lawyers a list of everyone's name and address, and for the next 2 weeks, you get about 3 letters each day from a lawyer offereing you his expert services to take your case. I think after 20 or 30 letters that say, Dear John, since you'ver been busted for soliciting for prostitution, please let us defend you in court, the Mrs. is gonna know you was out looking to get your knob polished.

[Daddy Lows]

sorry to change the topic but can anyone confirm this? it sounds over the top but somehow i think it could happen there:

--------------- not so subliminal messages -----------------

richmond, va. - virginia residents will soon be noticing new billboards going up around town with messages aimed at men to dissuade them from having sex with **** girls. billboards, posters, and even coasters and napkins in bars, restaurants, and stores will carry the gentle reminder "isn't she a little young?" or "sex with a minor, don't go there." this new campaign is designed to reduce the number of young girls who have children with older men. in virginia in 1999 and 2000, men over 18 were responsible for 219 births involving girls ages 13 and 14, the virginia depart- ment of health said. "we encourage adult men to talk to their peers and discourage them from pursuing teenagers. what they are doing is unhealthy and against the law," said robert franklin, a health department official. the messages will be appearing in five cities.

[Chuponalgas]

SAN FRANCISCO
Financier indicted on charges of molesting kids in Thailand, Mexico
- Bob Egelko, Elizabeth Fernandez, Chronicle Staff Writers
Saturday, June 19, 2004



Federal prosecutors have unsealed an indictment charging multimillionaire San Francisco financier Robert F. White with traveling to Thailand and Mexico to molest and exploit children.

The grand jury indictment, reported by The Chronicle in April, accuses the 68-year-old White of conspiring to violate the so-called child sex tourism law. That law prohibits traveling from the United States to other countries to have sex with minors, even if the sexual activity is legal where it took place. He also is charged with conspiring to produce child pornography.

Besides imprisonment, prosecutors seek forfeiture of homes owned by White in Thailand and Mexico, or if the foreign properties cannot be seized, then of two buildings in San Francisco.

White has been jailed in Bangkok since February 2003 fighting extradition to Mexico, where he is charged with child sex abuse, child prostitution and providing drugs to minors. A ruling on extradition is due from a Thai court next Friday. He also has been sued for damages by some of his alleged victims -- all of them young males -- in U.S. District Court in San Francisco and in state court.

One of those plaintiffs, Daniel Garcia, now 21, said Friday he never thought he would see the day that White was charged in the United States.

"It's been such an uphill battle for two years,'' said Garcia, who helped to set the federal investigation in motion and has traveled the world on behalf of White's alleged victims. "For someone who has such wealth and power as Tom White, it's amazing that this is happening to him. It's good to know that the wheels of justice turn slowly, but they do turn.''

White's attorney, Stuart Hanlon, predicted his client would be acquitted.

"It appears that this is part of the U.S. Justice Department's ... making legal decisions based on what they view as moral,'' Hanlon said. "It's the religious right-wing agenda of John Ashcroft. This administration feels we're the police of the world.''

White, an investor and stockbroker, founded Thomas F. White & Co. in 1978. The Chronicle reported in 2002 that he had apparently funded a children's school and shelter in a Thai resort area and paid to build an orphanage, a school and an adjoining 53-site resort hotel south of Puerto Vallarta, Mexico.

According to the indictment, dated March 23 and unsealed Thursday, White conspired with unnamed individuals to travel to Mexico between 1999 and 2001, and to Thailand between 2000 and 2003, to molest juveniles.

The conspirators provided "food, shelter, gifts and other material objects'' to the youths in Thailand and made and shared photographs of them, the indictment said. It also described a December 2001 e-mail in which another conspirator allegedly discussed creating a room next to a children's room in Thailand for White to have sex.

The private damage suit against White, which is still pending, alleges that he used food, shelter and gifts to lure poor children - some living on the street, others working as prostitutes - to his house about 50 miles south of Bangkok, where he and his friends would have sex with them.

No one else was charged in the indictment. White's personal assistant, Nathan Lovaas of Modesto, was indicted last September on similar federal charges.

[Short One #2]

I agree about 5 stings week being a bit much even considering the size and population of Dade, Broward, and Palm Bch counties. Where Mangus is totally correct is on the number of johns picked up. I got nailed once and was cuffed, processed and told to get walking aka "get the flock out of here" within a matter of 20 mins. The cops were set up in a bank parking lot about 3 blocks away from where I was snagged, there were about 10 of them doing processing and the motherf***rs had about 5 towtrucks in line, motors running ready for the next asshole. The next morning when I went to get my car back there were about 20 other poor assh**les waiting in line, and those are the ones with the $1000 in hand. I'm sure there were another 20-30 guys who couldn't come up with the money or had been drinking and went to the stockade instead of for a walk.

It IS all about money, Miami is one big payoff city and I'm sure the towtruck companies donate lots of money to the judges and commisioners who put these laws on the books. And it cannot be a coincidence that Miami started that sh*t in the middle of a financial crisis. Regarding the amount of female officers, I think they use city workers to expand the pool and probably deputize them or some sh*t like that.

Must be nice to be a Police Major, cause you could probably get the bi*ch to blow you before she went out as a decoy, LOL.

Stay Safe in Mongerland and F**k the Police.

[Pluto2]

AGE of CONSENT

This is the address of a chart tha lists the age of consent for every country in the world. Obviously prostitution laws probably make it 18 in almost every country where is legal.

ageofconsent.com/ageofconsent.htm

[Mangus Man]

Whoa Nelly!!!

The planets must really be aligned perfect tonight as I was just moments ago handed a rarely seen LE Monger's Saturday Night Special ! You just never know when the cops will get ya laid.

Yes, tonight it was the old

LE-in-reverse druggy-stripper hot 'n extra horny first grudge fuck outa the can !

The lovely and flat broke Lisa had been locked up by SoFla's finest for the last 17 days, and thanks to a friend of a friend and lucky timing, she just became MY new friend only 5 hours after getting released. Eager to share her sweet firm 34's with little pink pointy nips, and a gash that kept gettin' hotter and squirmier the more I tongued her and plunged her, she was unable to blow me thanks to her broken jaw courtesy of her A-1 ex-prince boyfriend, but still had the spunk to spin around at the proper moment to recieve gobs of my goo on her back molars. No longer broke nor suffering from a case of sperm deficiency, she's smiling now stoned, dumb, and full of come.
Have to say thanks to LE this time, now that's what I call serving the public!

[Chuponalgas]

Cops, D.A. tangle over strip club raids

Phillip Matier, Andrew Ross
Monday, July 12, 2004



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------






More sparks are flying between San Francisco police and District Attorney Kamala Harris -- this time over the D.A.'s refusal to prosecute nine women the vice cops arrested on prostitution charges during raids at a couple of "theater" clubs a few weeks back.

"It just leaves me in amazement,'' says vice Capt. Tim Hettrich, who likened the D.A.'s inaction to "almost legalizing prostitution.''

The D.A.'s office sees it a bit differently -- calling the arrests "business as usual'' and saying that while the cops were all too eager to arrest the women, they all but ignored the club's owners and the alleged johns.

If it all sounds a bit political, that's because it is.

Sex clubs have long been a tricky proposition in liberal San Francisco politics. For years, the attitude -- especially under libertine former D.A. Terence Hallinan -- seemed to be, "Don't ask, don't tell,'' especially at clubs whose owners were involved in local politics.

Plus, there's always been the question of whether prostitutes are criminals or victims.

Then, when the new D.A. came into office, the vice squad -- under the supervision of Fajitagate hyper-investigator Joe Dutto -- decided the time had come to start a cleanup. He called the club prostitution "out of control.''

The first step was to send letters to a couple of dozen strip clubs warning that investigators would be checking on their business licenses and permits.

The cops' move apparently set off an alarm at the D.A.'s office. Because the next thing you know, everyone was having a sit-down at which the cops agreed to back off until Harris could come up with a game plan that included the police and the city attorney -- after ironing out such issues as "abuse of the dancers, police misconduct during arrests and selected enforcement,'' according to a D.A.'s statement.

And while the cops waited ... and waited ... the public complaints kept coming in. Eventually, they decided to move on their own.

A pair of stings followed, one at the Market Street Theater and the other at the New Century Theater on Larkin Street. In each case, three undercover officers said they were solicited for sex acts by female employees within minutes.

In all, nine women were arrested -- and so was the male general manager of the New Century, who was booked for allegedly keeping a house of ill repute.

The cops said they were slam-dunk cases, but Harris' office took one look at the arrests and tossed them all.

And the bad-mouthing began.

The D.A.'s office says that the cops acted out of hand and that rather than wasting time and money on raiding clubs, they should be on the streets fighting more serious crimes.

In fact, Harris' office said in its statement, "We have had no arrests of street-level pimps and johns.''

"That's an outright lie,'' countered Dutto, who says the cops arrest 50 to 70 johns every month. He also said juveniles picked up for prostitution are routinely interviewed in an attempt to get them to turn on their pimps.

As for the club raids, the cops say they were just doing their jobs.

"When we went out there, we found girls who were engaging in acts of prostitution in the (illegally enclosed) booths, and that's why we took action, '' Hettrich said.

This being San Francisco, there's always another card in the deck somewhere. In this case, it's the feeling in the D.A.'s office that the cops are trying to use busts as a way to embarrass Harris for her refusal to bring a death penalty case against the alleged killer of Officer Isaac Espinoza, a popular cop who was shot to death in the Bayview this past spring.

Hettrich called the "payback'' spin "absolutely B.S.''

Maybe, but it does underscore the still-testy feelings between the two camps down at the Hall of Justice.

[Domino]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3900361.stm

I thought this article which briefly explains how some different countries tackle prostitution might be of some interest.

[My Alias]

Omaha pulling the old Post-The-Johns'-Names-On-A-Billboard ruse. http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=1636&u_sid=1169009

[My Alias]

A fun court document from the case of United States of America vs. Charles Floyd Pipkins, aka Sir Charles, and Andrew Moore Jr., aka Batman, a couple of pimps from Atlanta. http://www.ca11.uscourts.gov/opinions/ops/200214306.pdf. Note this document details the behind-the-scenes life of a pimp in Atlanta and requires Adobe Acrobat Reader to open (Adobe Acrobat Reader is a free download that can be found with an Internet search. Most computers come with it already loaded.)

[Horn Dogg]

Somebody please explain to me what the (good)logic is of a street walker insisting that the John state what he wants prior to getting in the car with him?

If all street walkers wised up and stopped doing this stupid practice then at least it would be harder for LE to bust Johns.

Is it so hard for a street walker to get into a John's car without saying anything and doing the "feel" test after the John has driven away for at least a block from the initial pick up stop before starting the negotiations? I'm sure this isn't a cure all but at least it greatly minimizes the risk of getting busted by LE.

What does the street walker get out of asking the John to state his intentions before getting into the car with him. This only makes any half way intelligent John suspicious that the street walker is an undercover LE. Thus the street walker loses a lot of potential (smart/suspicious) Johns.

Even if the John does state his intentions prior what does the street walker gain versus waiting and being more cautious about business dealings by doing what I suggested above.

The John can always change his mind as to the initial offer he made to her while he is in the car and she is outside. Or the guy can be a psycho killer bullshiting about how much he will pay her to lure her into the car. So I don't see the benefit of getting a John to state his intentions prior to getting into a car with them. Unless of course the supposed street walker is really a undercover LE.

[Jordan01]

When you weigh up being thrown in lockup for an hour and fined a hundred dollars, against being beaten to a pulp, raped and left to die in a ditch - I'd say most street workers would choose the former. Being arrested is the least of their worries.

I don't know much about girls in your part of the world, but here the street workers use those few minutes leaning in the car window to completely assess the prospective client. She notices whether he's drunk or on drugs, peeks around his car for a gun or baseball bat or whatever, checks out the locks to make sure he hasn't messed with them to lock her in and a whole lot of other things.

No, it doesn't guarantee that he's not going to be an axe murderer or rip her off - but as a working girl you really do develop the ability to assess a man's entire character in just a matter of moments. Its a survival mechanism. Our instinct becomes very finely tuned and in the time it takes for her to lean in and ask you what you want, she's probably got you totally figured you out. Sometimes she'll be wrong, but most of the time she will be dead on.

I know that doesn't help you guys much, but - no offence :) - I would rather see one of you getting a fine, than one of those girls getting her throat cut.

[Civ2000]

RN is right on the mark here; it is definately in the SW's best interest to do a quickie negotiation before she gets in. It's not just for safety reasons but a lot of the gals I pick up say I'd be amazed by the number of guys who offer something ridiculous like ten bucks and then get pissed off when they say no way.

On the other hand police decoys in the United States never get into the Johns car and the only way to safely pick up a SW is to get her in the car and begin driving away before any mention of sex or money.

Most of us guys here will simply drive off if the SW attempts to come to the driver's window or starts asking what we want before she gets in. Most of the SW's know this and will open the passenger door and do a quick sizing up of the the john and his car before getting in. If they ask what I want or if I want a date I simply ask for directions or offer them a ride.

In my city (Seattle) even asking if one is a cop in a prostitution area is enough to get arrested under the cities intent to solicite law. Which I can provide upon request.

To sum it up the SW's will try and do what makes things safer for them and us John's will do the same. We meet somewhere in the middle and both sides are happy.

RN, Also if you would, could you please check out my question on the sexual addiction thread and answer if you deem it worthy?

[My Alias]

Hookers in Missouri are fighting back. http://www.local6.com/news/3674397/detail.html They've set up their own Web site to monitor vice cops.

[Butterfly44]

would the exchange of money between a man and a woman be a menace to society?

only the jealous get neither the sex, nor the money, hence the puritanism.

please find here a copy and paste of the excellent relevant editorial leader from the magazine the economist, u.k. issue, dd. september 02nd 2004, together with a picture of the cover.

(as the copy is much less than 10% of the issue, hopefully, i am not transgressing any copyright laws.) - (say and explain me how if i was. - thanks.)

if ever, for reference, here is the link:
http://www.economist.com/printedition/displaystory.cfm?story_id=3151258


prostitution

sex is their business

sep 2nd 2004
from the economist print edition

attitudes to commercial sex are hardening. but tougher laws are wrong in both principle and practice

two adults enter a room, agree a price, and have sex. has either committed a crime? common sense suggests not: sex is not illegal in itself, and the fact that money has changed hands does not turn a private act into a social menace. if both parties consent, it is hard to see how either is a victim. but prostitution has rarely been treated as just another transaction, or even as a run-of-the-mill crime: the oldest profession is also the oldest pretext for outraged moralising and unrealistic lawmaking devised by man.

in recent years, governments have tended to bother with prostitution only when it threatened public order. most countries (including britain and america) have well-worn laws against touting on street corners, against the more brazen type of brothel and against pimping. this has never been ideal, partly because sellers of sex feel the force of law more strongly than do buyers, and partly because anti-soliciting statutes create perverse incentives. on some occasions, magistrates who have fined streetwalkers have been asked to wait a few days so that the necessary money can be earned.

so there is perennial discussion of reforming prostitution laws. during the 1990s, the talk was all of liberalisation. now the wind is blowing the other way. in 1999, sweden criminalised the buying of sex. france then cracked down on soliciting and outlawed commercial sex with vulnerable women—a category that includes pregnant women. britain began to enforce new laws against kerb-crawling earlier this year, and is now considering more restrictive legislation (see article ). outside a few pragmatic enclaves, attitudes are hardening. whereas, ten years ago, the discussion was mostly about how to manage prostitution and make it less harmful, the aim now is to find ways to stamp it out.

the puritans have the whip hand not because they can prove that tough laws will make life better for women, but because they have convinced governments that prostitution is intolerable by its very nature. what has tipped the balance is the globalisation of the sex business.

how swedish policies influence britain
sep 2nd 2004
immigration and prostitution in britain
sep 2nd 2004
prostitution
jul 11th 2003
time to legalise prostitution
jan 4th 2001

human rights

the white slave trade

it is not surprising that many of the rich world's prostitutes are foreigners. immigrants have a particularly hard time finding jobs that pay well; local language skills are not prized in the sex trade; prostitutes often prefer to work outside their home town. but the free movement of labour is as controversial in the sex trade as in any other business. wherever they work, foreign prostitutes are accused of driving down prices, touting “extra” services and consorting with organised criminal pimps who are often foreigners, too. the fact that a very small proportion of women are trafficked—forced into prostitution against their will—has been used to discredit all foreigners in the trade, and by extension (since many sellers of sex are indeed foreign) all prostitutes.

abolitionists make three arguments. from the right comes the argument that the sex trade is plain wrong, and that, by condoning it, society demeans itself. liberals (such as this newspaper) who believe that what consenting adults do in private is their own business reject that line.

from the left comes the argument that all prostitutes are victims. its proponents cite studies that show high rates of sexual abuse and drug taking among employees. to which there are two answers. first, those studies are biased: they tend to be carried out by staff at drop-in centres and by the police, who tend to see the most troubled streetwalkers. taking their clients as representative of all prostitutes is like assessing the state of marriage by sampling shelters for battered women. second, the association between prostitution and drug addiction does not mean that one causes the other: drug addicts, like others, may go into prostitution just because it's a good way of making a decent living if you can't think too clearly.

a third, more plausible, argument focuses on the association between prostitution and all sorts of other nastinesses, such as drug addiction, organised crime, trafficking and **** sex. to encourage prostitution, goes the line, is to encourage those other undesirables; to crack down on prostitution is to discourage them.

brothels with brands

plausible, but wrong. criminalisation forces prostitution into the underworld. legalisation would bring it into the open, where abuses such as trafficking and under-age prostitution can be more easily tackled. brothels would develop reputations worth protecting. access to health care would improve—an urgent need, given that so many prostitutes come from diseased parts of the world. abuses such as child or forced prostitution should be treated as the crimes they are, and not discussed as though they were simply extreme forms of the sex trade, which is how opponents of prostitution and, recently, the governments of britain and america have described them.

puritans argue that where laws have been liberalised—in, for instance, the netherlands, germany and australia—the new regimes have not lived up to claims that they would wipe out pimping and sever the links between prostitution and organised crime. certainly, those links persist; but that's because, thanks to concessions to the opponents of liberalisation, the changes did not go far enough. prostitutes were made to register, which many understandably didn't want to do. not surprisingly, illicit brothels continued to thrive.

if those quasi-liberal experiments have not lived up to their proponents' expectations, they have also failed to fulfil their detractors' greatest fears. they do not seem to have led to outbreaks of disease or under-age sex, nor to a proliferation of street prostitution, nor to a wider collapse in local morals.

which brings us back to that discreet transaction between two people in private. if there's no evidence that it harms others, then the state should let them get on with it. people should be allowed to buy and sell whatever they like, including their own bodies. prostitution may be a grubby business, but it's not the government's.

[GettingTang]

The "pickup" should never present a risk for being busted. Not ever, unless you a real idiot! If she does not get in, simply smile, wave and drive away. It's that simple!

The bigger concern, for me and most seasoned mongers is getting busted while parked and in the act. This is highly more likely to happen.

Finding a good place to park these days where you don't have to worry about LE is becoming more and more difficult.

TANG~!

[My Alias]

Moonlighting cop killed working as a bouncer at The Sting, a Detroit topless club. http://www.freep.com/news/locway/cop3e_20040903.htm

[Webcams]

I have heard from more then one sw about having been forced to perform services on cops, then when done told to leave the city or go to jail.

Isn't it funny how in LA at least the cops always are busting the hot s/w's and never mess with the ugly ones?

I would love to see the US Justice department do a sting on the cops just once to see these rapist put away.

Compton is famous for feeling up the girls and more then threatening them.

[My Alias]

http://sfweekly.com/issues/2004-09-08/feature.html/1/index.html
. This story is long, but it's an interesting history of sex work in modern San Francisco strip clubs.

[ChefDog]

sex is their business
sep 2nd 2004
from the economist print edition


attitudes to commercial sex are hardening. but tougher laws are wrong in both principle and practice

two adults enter a room, agree a price, and have sex. has either committed a crime? common sense suggests not: sex is not illegal in itself, and the fact that money has changed hands does not turn a private act into a social menace. if both parties consent, it is hard to see how either is a victim. but prostitution has rarely been treated as just another transaction, or even as a run-of-the-mill crime: the oldest profession is also the oldest pretext for outraged moralising and unrealistic lawmaking devised by man.
in recent years, governments have tended to bother with prostitution only when it threatened public order. most countries (including britain and america) have well-worn laws against touting on street corners, against the more brazen type of brothel and against pimping. this has never been ideal, partly because sellers of sex feel the force of law more strongly than do buyers, and partly because anti-soliciting statutes create perverse incentives. on some occasions, magistrates who have fined streetwalkers have been asked to wait a few days so that the necessary money can be earned.
so there is perennial discussion of reforming prostitution laws. during the 1990s, the talk was all of liberalisation. now the wind is blowing the other way. in 1999, sweden criminalised the buying of sex. france then cracked down on soliciting and outlawed commercial sex with vulnerable women—a category that includes pregnant women. britain began to enforce new laws against kerb-crawling earlier this year, and is now considering more restrictive legislation (see article). outside a few pragmatic enclaves, attitudes are hardening. whereas, ten years ago, the discussion was mostly about how to manage prostitution and make it less harmful, the aim now is to find ways to stamp it out.
the puritans have the whip hand not because they can prove that tough laws will make life better for women, but because they have convinced governments that prostitution is intolerable by its very nature. what has tipped the balance is the globalisation of the sex business.

the white slave trade
it is not surprising that many of the rich world's prostitutes are foreigners. immigrants have a particularly hard time finding jobs that pay well; local language skills are not prized in the sex trade; prostitutes often prefer to work outside their home town. but the free movement of labour is as controversial in the sex trade as in any other business. wherever they work, foreign prostitutes are accused of driving down prices, touting “extra” services and consorting with organised criminal pimps who are often foreigners, too. the fact that a very small proportion of women are trafficked—forced into prostitution against their will—has been used to discredit all foreigners in the trade, and by extension (since many sellers of sex are indeed foreign) all prostitutes.
abolitionists make three arguments. from the right comes the argument that the sex trade is plain wrong, and that, by condoning it, society demeans itself. liberals (such as this newspaper) who believe that what consenting adults do in private is their own business reject that line.
from the left comes the argument that all prostitutes are victims. its proponents cite studies that show high rates of sexual abuse and drug taking among employees. to which there are two answers. first, those studies are biased: they tend to be carried out by staff at drop-in centres and by the police, who tend to see the most troubled streetwalkers. taking their clients as representative of all prostitutes is like assessing the state of marriage by sampling shelters for battered women. second, the association between prostitution and drug addiction does not mean that one causes the other: drug addicts, like others, may go into prostitution just because it's a good way of making a decent living if you can't think too clearly.
a third, more plausible, argument focuses on the association between prostitution and all sorts of other nastinesses, such as drug addiction, organised crime, trafficking and **** sex. to encourage prostitution, goes the line, is to encourage those other undesirables; to crack down on prostitution is to discourage them.

brothels with brands
plausible, but wrong. criminalisation forces prostitution into the underworld. legalisation would bring it into the open, where abuses such as trafficking and under-age prostitution can be more easily tackled. brothels would develop reputations worth protecting. access to health care would improve—an urgent need, given that so many prostitutes come from diseased parts of the world. abuses such as child or forced prostitution should be treated as the crimes they are, and not discussed as though they were simply extreme forms of the sex trade, which is how opponents of prostitution and, recently, the governments of britain and america have described them.
puritans argue that where laws have been liberalised—in, for instance, the netherlands, germany and australia—the new regimes have not lived up to claims that they would wipe out pimping and sever the links between prostitution and organised crime. certainly, those links persist; but that's because, thanks to concessions to the opponents of liberalisation, the changes did not go far enough. prostitutes were made to register, which many understandably didn't want to do. not surprisingly, illicit brothels continued to thrive.
if those quasi-liberal experiments have not lived up to their proponents' expectations, they have also failed to fulfil their detractors' greatest fears. they do not seem to have led to outbreaks of disease or under-age sex, nor to a proliferation of street prostitution, nor to a wider collapse in local morals.
which brings us back to that discreet transaction between two people in private. if there's no evidence that it harms others, then the state should let them get on with it. people should be allowed to buy and sell whatever they like, including their own bodies. prostitution may be a grubby business, but it's not the government's.

[Jet Ranger]

More harassment on the way for those in uniform as well as those civilians associated with the Defense Department.

Washington Post
September 22, 2004
Pg. 13

Anti-Prostitution Rule Drafted For U.S. Forces

By Pauline Jelinek, Associated Press

U.S. service members stationed overseas could face a court-martial for patronizing prostitutes under a new regulation drafted by the Pentagon.

The move is part of a Defense Department effort to reduce the possibility that service members will contribute to human trafficking in areas near their overseas bases by seeking the services of women forced into prostitution.

In recent years, "women and girls are being forced into prostitution for a clientele consisting largely of military services members, government contractors and international peacekeepers" in such places as South Korea and the Balkans, Rep. Christopher H. Smith (R-N.J.) said yesterday at a Capitol Hill forum on Pentagon anti-trafficking efforts.

Defense officials have drafted an amendment to the manual on courts-martial that would make it an offense for service members to use the services of prostitutes, said Charles S. Abell, a Pentagon undersecretary for personnel and readiness.

If approved, the amendment would make it a military offense under the Uniform Code of Military Justice to have contact with a prostitute, Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, an Abell spokeswoman, said later. The draft rule is
open to 60 days of public comment after being published in the Federal Register, she said.

Officials also are developing a training program for service members and contractors, to be distributed in November. The program will explain trafficking, department policy on it and possible legal action against violators, Abell said in a written statement.

Additionally, the military is reviewing regulations and procedures for placing off-limits those businesses where such activities take place and working with Justice Department officials to tighten rules on contractor misconduct.

Gen. Leon J. LaPorte, commander of the 37,000 U.S. service members in South Korea, said another initiative started on the peninsula has been to "make on-base military life a more desirable experience, and attempt to diminish the seductive appeal of many of the less wholesome off-duty pursuits."

That effort includes offering expanded evening and weekend education programs, band concerts, late-night sports leagues and more chaplain activities.

All new arrivals to duty in South Korea are instructed against prostitution and human trafficking, and the military is working with South Korean law enforcement agencies, he said.

NATO officials in July outlined new guidelines adopted to ensure alliance peacekeepers do not encourage sex trafficking gangs by seeking the services of women forced into prostitution.

[Woodstock]

Spy's post on the proposed rule to make it a crime for military personnel to have contact with a prostitute marks an complete turn around of Vietnam era policy in which the Pentagon actually promoted prostitution in Thailand for its servicemen. This rule obviously reflects Bush's attempt to "Christianize America." After its all said and done, there probably won't be many servicemen left to fight his selfish wars.

I wish the DoD good luck in trying enforce such a code, especially when it "promotes", or at least turns a blind eye to, homosexuality within its ranks. Seems like they would want to encourage heterosexualism. Barring prostitution may actually encourage a rise in homosexualty. For the Bush Administration which is worse, getting a blow job or fucking a hooker, or getting the same from another man? Seems like both are evil and a threat to our beloved nation.

[Jet Ranger]

This is a follow-up to my previous post. The first half of the article below is somewhat meaningless since Stars & Stripes is published by the Defense Department, but the second half has some interesting info about changes to South Korean law.

Trying to eliminate the sex industry in South Korea is like trying to eliminate breathing, but if their proposed crackdown has any effect, it makes you wonder how many more girls will find their way to work in U.S. AMPS.

*************

Pacific Stars and Stripes
September 24, 2004

Troops Support, Wonder About Effectiveness Of Anti-Prostitution Rules

By Joseph Giordono and Franklin Fisher, Stars and Stripes

SEOUL - U.S. servicemembers in South Korea largely support newly proposed rules to make pandering illegal under military law but also wonder about the effectiveness of military and government efforts to combat the sex trade and human trafficking overseas.

Tuesday in Washington, top Pentagon officials announced their intention to add a specific anti-prostitution charge to the Uniform Code of Military Justice, making a conviction punishable by one year confinement and a dishonorable discharge.

Wednesday at U.S. bases in South Korea, reaction was swift.

"It kind of surprises me that there wasn't something specific about that in the UCMJ before but I think this shows the [military] is not just saying 'stop doing it,' they're putting out a punishment that will make a lot of people think twice," said Sgt. Michael Wright, of the 18th Medical Command.

"This would show they're really serious."

Sitting at an outdoor cafe around the corner from Itaewon's infamous "Hooker Hill" -- a red-light district just a stone's throw from the U.S. military headquarters at Yongsan Garrison -- another group of soldiers agreed.

"Absolutely it makes sense," said Spc. Tim Roberts, of 1st Brigade, 2nd Infantry Division. "I don't know how many guys will actually have to get busted before it starts working, but it's gotta help cut down the problem."

Staff Sgt. Kristie Knappenberger, of the 303rd Intelligence Squadron at Osan Air Base, thinks such an addition to the UCMJ might be a good thing, especially if it helps curb servicemember involvement with prostitutes, including occasional marriages to women who work in bars, known as so-called "juicy girls."

"I don't see any problem with it," Knappenberger said of the prospective change. "I don't think it would be a bad idea. If anything, it would be good...I know there's always been a big deal about the girls downtown -'juicies.' So it would help here and stateside."

"A lot of junior people get here and they get involved with that and it affects them not only here but at home. Once they return home, financially, with their family life, if they do decide to get married to one of the girls they met, it carries over."

Senior Airman Tom Guess of the 51st Logistics Readiness Squadron also thought it might be beneficial. And he saw nothing wrong with having the proposed change apply in countries in which prostitution might be legal.

"I think it's fair," said Guess. "Cause I mean, if you get caught doing it in the civilian world, I don't see why it would be different. If you go to Saudi Arabia you can't really drink there. You can drink in the States but you can't drink in Saudi Arabia."

Military officials also promised a crackdown on civilian contractors not subject to the UCMJ.

"Nobody's saying soldiers don't go to hookers, but lots of times, it's the civilian guys who are out there on 'Hooker Hill' all the time," said one soldier. "You've got to crack down on both groups."

Some soldiers questioned whether either the new U.S. military or South Korean efforts would have any real effect on the sex trade. Sgt. Nicole Webster, for example, thinks the demand always will outpace legal efforts.

"If that's what someone is looking for, you're not going to be able to stop them with more threats. They already know they'll get punished for it under existing rules but that doesn't seem to make some people think twice," she said.

One suggestion she had was for the military to make public the punishments levied under the existing codes. U.S. Forces Korea Commander Gen. Leon J. LaPorte told the House Armed Services Committee Tuesday that military efforts have "resulted in the prosecution of more than 400 servicemembers for related offenses, such as curfew violation and trespassing posted off-limits locations."

But as Webster and other soldiers pointed out, those sanctions largely are doled out through nonjudicial punishment, details of which the military does not release. Any deterrent effect of such punishments usually does not reach beyond a small number of the soldiers' friends, the soldiers said.

"And if prostitution already is illegal in South Korea," Webster asked, "why would the new rules be more effective at preventing people from frequenting prostitutes?"

The proposed military changes coincide with a new set of South Korean laws meant to crack down on the sex industry, which technically is illegal but in practice is an open, rampant and lucrative business. South Korean officials say a major purpose of their new campaign, in addition to the new laws, is to more strictly enforce existing laws.

According to the Gender Equality Ministry, more than 330,000 women worked in some 80,000 sex industry establishments in 2002, the last year figures were available.

All told, the ministry said, the sex industry in South Korea, including legal entertainment associated with brothels, accounts for some $20 billion each year.

Beginning Wednesday, tougher anti-prostitution laws took effect in South Korea, including one requiring a mandatory three-year prison sentence for anyone convicted of engaging in human trafficking for the sex trade. Members of organized crime would get a minimum of five years.

Another new law offers rewards of 20 million won (around $17,000) for information leading to the conviction of human traffickers. Another provision lets the government confiscate all proceeds and property earned through the illegal sex trade. An additional new wrinkle would differentiate legally between women involuntarily in the sex trade (who would be classified as victims) and those who are determined to voluntarily sell sex (who would be punished as criminals).

Under a broader program, South Korea's government has promised to shut down all of the country's estimated 70 red-light districts.

[My Alias]

I was wondering if anybody's been following this story, http://www.oaklandtribune.com/Stories/0,1413,82~1865~2414505,00.html, about a former call girl from Oakland, Calif., who put herself through Stanford Law School by turning high-dollar tricks. Even though she's not been arrested by the feds, they've seized cash from a safety deposit box and are trying to get about $61,000 from her in back taxes.

[Butterfly44]

Fresh from Midnight Yahoo News:
Today's ref: http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20041010/ap_on_hi_te/china_porn_rewards_2

China Offers Rewards for Reporting Porn

2 hours, 46 minutes ago

Technology - AP

BEIJING - China's police ministry on Sunday handed out rewards of up to $240 to people who reported pornographic Web sites in a campaign to stamp out online smut, the government said.

Some 445 people have been arrested and 1,125 Web sites shut down with the help of public tips since July, the official Xinhua News Agency reported, citing the Ministry of Public Security.

The ministry handed out rewards of $60 to $240, Xinhua said, but it didn't say how many people received them.

China encourages Internet use for education and business but bans sexually oriented content on its own Web sites and tries to block access to foreign sites deemed pornographic or subversive.

The online crackdown is part of a sweeping official morality campaign launched this year on orders from communist leaders.

Television stations, video game makers and other suppliers of popular culture have been ordered to reduce or eliminate violent or sexually oriented content.

[PsyberZombie]

Here's a Good Resource =

A List of the Ages of Consent for all around the World

http://www.avert.org/aofconsent.htm

[PsyberZombie]

I've heard of a 'Bad Lay' on a Golf Course , but This is *Ridiculous* !!!

Three sentenced for golf course prostitution

Club officials, tourney organizer get 125 days of house arrest

The Associated Press

Updated: 1:58 p.m. ET Nov. 5, 2004 NORCO, Calif. - Two golf course managers and a tournament organizer were sentenced to house arrest for hosting two competitions featuring prostitutes and strippers stationed along the putting greens.

Superior Court Judge Christian Thierbach chided the three for their “immoral and illegal actions” at the so-called girlie tournaments in spring 2002.

More than a dozen prostitutes and strippers, including a 16-year-old girl, set up tents and advertised their services on boards, officials said. About 160 golfers paid $200 apiece to play, though some showed up without their clubs, officials said.

Sheriff’s deputies wearing camouflage raided the second tournament, detaining 90 golfers and 17 strippers and alleged prostitutes, along with golf course workers.

Event organizer Sandy Juarez, 39, was accused of providing the prostitutes. In a deal with prosecutors, she pleaded guilty to felony conspiracy to corrupt public morals and testified against Hidden Valley Golf Club general manager Jason Wood, 38, and his former assistant, Darren James Bollinger, 30. The pair pleaded guilty in July to the same charge.

All three were sentenced to 125 days of house arrest.

Two golfers have been convicted of engaging in prostitution, and the mother of the 16-year-old prostitute is charged with child endangerment and prostitution.

© 2004 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Source = http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6415869/

[Rock Dog]

Hey PsyberZombie,

Some of the golfers may have showed up without any clubs, but they all came with their balls.

Rock

(sorry if that joke was terrible)

[Member #2662]

From The Observer (London) today.

http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1356104,00.html

Any suggestions on how you can establish whether a girl has been traffiked?

[El Mojado]

I am stuck in California for a while... I have been checking out the area I'm in via the WSG and other sites including search engines and I cannot for the life me find out what the sentences are (and fines) if you are caught by LE for soliciting. They have to sentence you, and I sure don't want to go through a long trial, so I just want to see what the minimum and maximum sentences are for solicitating a prostitute in California. I am near the SF Bay Area around Oakland for now.

Can anyone give me an idea? Plus I won't let them get my car... even if I had to park it 10 blocks away for an incall, I like getting a warm-up walk before diving into a chica ;)

I sure miss Mexico and the kinder, cuter chicas...

[PsyberZombie]

El Mojigato =

California State Code § 653.23 (B) defines "Solicitation" quite broadly , and even ends with a "if it looks bad , it is"
Clause =

A person is guilty of Solicitation if s/he =

(3) Repeatedly engages or attempts to engage in conversation with
pedestrians or motorists to solicit, arrange, or facilitate an act of
prostitution
(4) Repeatedly stops or attempts to stop pedestrians or motorists
to solicit, arrange, or facilitate an act of prostitution
(5) Circles an area in a motor vehicle and repeatedly beckons to,
contacts, or attempts to contact or stop pedestrians or other
motorists to solicit, arrange, or facilitate an act of prostitution

(c) The list of circumstances set forth in subdivision (b) is not
exclusive. The circumstances set forth in subdivision (b) should be
considered particularly salient if they occur in an area that is
known for prostitution activity. Any other relevant circumstances
may be considered. Moreover, no one circumstance or combination of
circumstances is in itself determinative. A violation of subdivision
(a) shall be determined based on an evaluation of the particular
circumstances of each case.

The Statute defines an Offense as a Misdemeanor ; meaning a maximum penalty of Imprisonment
not more than a year &/or a fine not greater than $ 2000


Your bigger concern , though , is Oakland's Municipal Statutes that apply =

9.56.010 Nuisance vehicles.

Any vehicle used to solicit an act of prostitution, or to acquire or attempt to acquire any controlled substance, is declared a nuisance, and the vehicle shall be enjoined and abated as provided in this chapter. Any person or his or her servant, agent, or employee who owns, leases, conducts, or maintains any vehicle (hereinafter referred to as "the property"), used for any of the purposes or acts set forth in this section is guilty of a nuisance.

"enjoined and abated" means "seized and your ownership forfeited"

And even worse , 9.56.070 (F) makes this a CIVIL Seizure , which means even if you are ultimately acquitted of the Solicitation charge , they get to keep your car ; and even if you cop a plea to a lesser charge [ disorderly conduct is a typical plea bargain ] , they can keep it

And before you Perry Masons out there suggest it = this Statute , and others like it in other states and municipalities , have been challenged all the up to the SCOTUS ; and they *are* Constitutional , if you can believe it !!

[My Alias]

Did anyone see this? In San Antonio, new regulations require strippers to wear their business license/permits while they dance. Here's the story link, http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/apus_story.asp?category=1110&slug=Stripping%20Permits By the way Jackson, there's no category for strip clubs. How about one in the Special Interests section.

[Dhendog]

I am here in South Korea and the laws have affected much of the businesses around here. I read a couple of articles about what the military here is saying about the new laws. I personnally think that it is a bunch of bulshit, excuse my french. Yeah on camera and newspaper SGT john smith cannot say that he thinks that the laws need to be thrown away. He is a soldier. In private he is saying "Damn I need some of that asian pussy while I am here" Actions speak louder than words. The soldiers say they support it, however hundreds have gotten arrested for it since the new law. Does that sound like support? Not to me it doesn't. I just wish that the US would stop trying to worry about getting that win in the next election and let us decide on what we want to do and not politics decide.

[My Alias]

Cops in Nashville arrest ad clerk from the Scene because he sold ads that might be promoting prostitution. Here's the story link, http://www.tennessean.com/local/archives/04/12/62977238.shtml?Element_ID=62977238

[My Alias]

Aww, it's the holiday season so that means it's time for the annual John sting. Watch your backs, guys. http://www.caller.com/ccct/local_news/article/0,1641,CCCT_811_3420585,00.html, Here's the story, but it might require you to register (for free) to the newspaper's Web site in order to read it. Basically, there was a John sting that netted four in mid-December, and a reporter from the Caller-Times acted as the fake pro in two of the busts. The editor has issued an apology for having the reporter get involved in the story.

[My Alias]

Broward County pro turns in a man after noticing child porn on his computer, http://www.azcentral.com/offbeat/articles/0107HookerTip07-ON.html.

[My Alias]

Stop me if you've heard this before, but police are surprised to find a Colorado woman has been using the Internet to solicit for prostitution, http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/4072566/detail.html.

[My Alias]

Six strippers from Seminole County are busted for "breaking the plane" between customers' knees, and the Smoking Gun is there with the scoop on the arrest, http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0111051strippers1.html#121.

[PsyberZombie]

Man , they got some UGLY with a capital UG! Hookers up there in St Paul , MN !!

[ although I'd give Christine or Alicia a roll ]

http://www.ci.stpaul.mn.us/depts/police/prostitution_photos_current.html

[Daddy Rulz]

I thought "Merrill, Alicia Rae" was kinda fine. Wonder if she needs some donations for "legal fees".

[My Alias]

ESCORTS & JOHNS: HOW TO AVOID STINGS OPERATIONS>> - m4w
Date: 2005-03-01, 1:17AM PST


~~~~~~Help Re-post this Information Several times a day! The anti-escorting forces spend a lot of time getting this info deleted. Your help is required to keep us all safe!~~~~~~~~~~~


Disregard the doomsayers who try to scare adults who wish to have consensual paid sex!

REMEMBER, GOVERNMENT HAS NO BUSINESS DICTATING MORALS OR WHAT HAPPENS BETWEEN TWO ADULTS HAVING CONSENSUAL SEX!

There are some basic rules to not getting caught and they are EASY!

First, RARELY have VICE done stings against JOHNS on the Internet! Their priorities are the blight and corresponding criminal behavior that surrounds STREET WALKERS and their clients who create problems in areas where SW's do thier work (The Stroll or Track).

ESCORTS; HOW TO STAY SAFE FROM STINGS:
In Sacramento, Internet-based stings have been primarily against escorts. Escorts should not do OUTCALLS unless they can get a reference from their John or unless its a repeat client. Vice will not do INCALL stings against escorts (they are not willing to risk the safety of officers in an environment that they do not control - i.e., your motel room. As far as they know, you could have 5 pimps in your room ready to rob and kill what they thought was a John!) To do an INCALL sting would require watching a specific room for hours to ensure that decoy officer going in knows exactly who is in the room. It takes too much money and staff time to run around town staking out single motel rooms to bust ONE hooker on minor charges that only give the girls 3 years probation! They (VICE) will make the girls come to their hotel room (Motel 6 on Howe Ave, Raddisson, Red Lion Inn, DoubleTree and other hotels have been used as Outcall Stings).

The ONLY exception to VICE doing INCALL stings are when escort agencies are using a single location (i.e., apartment, house, condo) and they have an opportunity to watch the house for activity. Escort agencies are primary target for LE because they can get a juicy FELONY Pimping and Pandering charge against the individual running the agency rather than the lesser minor chgarges of Solicitation and working as an Escort without a permit (Yes, you can and should secure a permit for work as a Escort! Escorting is a LEGAL business in the State of Calif- Prostitution is not). Vice will target agency girls first (Sacramento News & Review / Yellow Pages and Internet based Agencies). If they can get the girls who get busted to turn on the owner of the agency, its a good day for LE.

VICE will NEVER, EVER show an ID card to any civilian, if you are not sure ask for an ID (but if you are that close to asking a potential Vice cop for his civilian ID, you're probably already in trouble). JUST DON'T DO OUTCALLS!! If you MUST do OUTCALLS - do not do so without checking the references of the client. Its likely you are not the first escort he's ever seen. Find out who else he has seen. Make sure his reference has a posting and review history and find her ad, call her and ask her about your OUTCALL client. Mandatory References Checks for ALL incall and outcalls is the ULTIMATE safety net for escorts and will keep you out of jail; keep you from getting assulted or robbed; keep you away from pimps and cut way back on the number of flakes.

JOHNS/HOBBYIST/TRICKS How to Stay Safe From Stings:
On the RARE chance that VICE is doing stings specifically against men on off of the Internet (and in last 8 years - I have not heard of a single one), the solution is simple....

...Do NOT see new escorts without first checking them out (DO YOUR HOMEWORK!) Think with your brain - not your dick! There are many ESCORT review sites (Redbook and The************).. if the escort you want to see doesn't have a review history where other guys have testified to their looks and skills, PASS on her until YOU are sure! Seeing an escort just based upon her looks alone only shows your amature nature in this business and will at worse get you robbed or thrown in jail and at least get you a dead-lay not worth the money and time you spent! Do your homework and ask around!

OR,... at the very last min before you go up to see her in her hotel room, ask if she will come outside her hotel room or meet you in a nearby bar or restaurant (many legitimate escorts may not feel comfortable about that either). Female VICE decoy's will NEVER, EVER allow female decoys to leave the safe, monitored environment of the wired hotel room they use to bust one John after another and are protected by a number of armed officers!

This consensual adult behavior is long over-due to become legal! Don't let any of these crazy doomsayers scare you in participating in it.

Happy Hunting!

~~~~~~Help Re-post this Information Several times a day! The anti-escorting forces spend a lot of time getting this info deleted. Your help is required to keep us all safe!~~~~~~~~~~~

[My Alias]

Oakland plans to start using billboards to shame johns, http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/02/25/BAG4DBGN951.DTL

[Member #2718]

Isn't it amazing that when rates for violence and real crime are going up, LE is wasting money cracking down on concensual behavior that at worst is a nusiance. The real immoral act here is fraud perpetrated on the public that LE is doing something to earn their paychecks with their flashy billboards and newspaper photos that just waste more taxpayer money. The amazing thing is that LE thinks this publicity curbs activity. I use the information to help me more effectively target my mongering.

[Hizark21]

Car seizure law overturned in Stockon (Civil Intent to Solicit as well)

KENDRA O’CONNELL,
Plaintiff and Appellant,
v.
THE CITY OF STOCKTON et al.,
Defendants and Respondents.
(http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/opinions/documents/C044400.PDF )


Stockton's car seizure law was overturned by Superior Court of San Joaquin
County, Elizabeth Humphreys, J. This ruling is very important, because it invalidates the unfair Civil intent to solicit laws. Secondly it also prohibits the cops from seizing your car.

I think the LA DA came to realization that this law was legally questionable at best. About 6 months ago the LAPD dramatically cut back on enforcement of the civil intent to solicit law. With this law you could have your care impounded for merely picking up prostitute. You have not committed a crime yet, but that was enough probable cause for the cops to seizue your car. This is a scene right out of the movie Minority report.

[Slag Runner]

Has anyone read of any cases that they can cite where an individual was charged / prosecuted for something posted on a web site in the form of a review of an escort or SW?

I understand that such a prosecution would be based on a weak set of arguments that a crime was, in fact, committed. The author of the review would no doubt state that the review was fiction. Without additional evidence, there would be no case for prostitution but what about other charges that could be brought just to intimidate or "punish" a person of interest?

I would be interested in the thoughts of others on this subject but most interested in actual cases that can be cited.
SR

[Frank Booth]

I know of a divorce where the wife's attorney used the husband's WSG posts to prove he was AMPing (cheating), but nothing in criminal cases.

[Bill Bradsky]

Here is an article that concerns Amps. The charge is seldom related to selling sex and always related to not paying taxes on the proceeds:

http://www.courier-journal.com/cjextra/2004projects/massage/stories/p4_multistate.html

[Bill Bradsky]

This article details how an Amp investigation is carried out.

http://www.dadesentinel.com/020404-1.htm

[Jet Ranger]

From the July 2, 2005 LA Times.com

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-smuggling2jul02,1,3429870.story?page=1&coll=la-headlines-california&ctrack=1&cset=true

Raids on Brothel Rings Net 45 Arrests
L.A. and Bay Area groups are suspected of smuggling hundreds of South Korean women.

By David Rosenzweig and K. Connie Kang, Times Staff Writers

Two criminal syndicates suspected of smuggling hundreds of South Korean women into the United States to work at brothels in the Los Angeles and San Francisco areas have been broken up with the arrest of 45 people, including the ringleaders, federal authorities announced Friday.

In raids on massage parlors, chiropractic offices and apartments at both ends of the state, federal agents and local law enforcement officers took into custody nearly 150 suspected prostitutes as material witnesses.

U.S. Atty. Debra Wong Yang said there was no firm evidence that the women were coerced into working as prostitutes, although some were found to have been sexually abused.

Yang said federal agents were in the process of interviewing the women to learn how they got here and how they were treated.

"This type of criminal organization exploits the hopes and dreams of immigrants," the Los Angeles federal prosecutor said.

Law enforcement officials said the two networks operated independently, although they sometimes traded prostitutes.

The Los Angeles organization was headquartered in Koreatown, home of the largest Korean population outside Asia. Koreatown community leaders reacted to the arrests with surprise and shame.

"This is so embarrassing," said Kenny Shin, president of the Korean American Chamber of Commerce. Shin said he feared that notoriety would hurt Koreatown businesses that are finally recovering from the effects of the 1992 Los Angeles riots.

The Southern California investigation was launched two years ago by U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the Internal Revenue Service's criminal investigation division and the Los Angeles County sheriff's vice squad.

Using court-authorized wiretaps and undercover informants, investigators said, they were able to track the activities of the organization's leaders for months.

Among the 18 people arrested in Southern California late Thursday and early Friday on prostitution-related conspiracy charges was the alleged ringleader, Young Joon Jung, about 40, a resident of Koreatown. Investigators also seized more than $1 million.

Yang said the Jung organization was a "top to bottom" criminal enterprise. The organization smuggled women into the United States via Canada and Mexico, usually after they agreed to pay as much as $16,000 from their earnings as prostitutes, she said.

The women were then turned over to an underground network of Korean "taxi" services that assigned and transported them each day to various brothels. Authorities said the brothels operated under the guise of being massage parlors, chiropractic clinics and businesses offering aromatherapy, acupressure, acupuncture and the like.

According to an affidavit, some of those brothels paid chiropractors $600 to $1,500 a month to use their licenses.

Koreatown businesspeople Friday expressed surprise that health services were involved, even though only a few of the area's many chiropractors and acupuncturists were implicated. Across the street from one Koreatown establishment raided by investigators, clothing store owner Jong Soon Kang said Friday she could hardly believe that people would pay to lease professional licenses to engage in prostitution.

"I have heard about things like that happening in some massage parlors," she said. "But medical offices? This is very, very serious."

"I just hope this will not harm the Korean community's reputation," she said. "Most Korean immigrants are like me — we work hard and are good citizens. I hope the mainstream will understand that and not think badly of all of us."

The suspected brothels were not limited to Koreatown. Some were located in the San Fernando Valley, South Gate, Santa Monica, Redondo Beach and Anaheim, the affidavit said.

The taxi services, which allegedly were run by members and associates of Jung's organization, occasionally sent the women to work at brothels in Texas, Colorado and Northern California, according to the affidavit.

In one wiretapped conversation recorded in April, one of Jung's associates was overheard complaining about the arrest of 16 women by U.S. Border Patrol officers as they were being taken across the Canadian border in a recreational vehicle rented in El Monte.

Another alleged ring member lamented a crackdown by Mexican officials in Mexicali, saying the police there were arresting everyone who looked Korean. He said he found a way around the problem by sending the women to Tijuana, where he claimed to have a friendly Mexican immigration officer on his payroll.

In the San Francisco-area roundup, about 400 federal and local officers arrested 27 suspects. Five others charged in a grand jury indictment were still at large. The raid, dubbed Operation Gilded Cage, netted $2 million in cash.

By morning, more than 100 Korean women detained at 11 separate massage parlors had been taken to an undisclosed location. They appeared to be about 20 to 27 years old. Victim assistance workers were living among them in an effort to coax their cooperation, and more than half a dozen local social service and legal groups dispatched aid.

The nine-month Northern California investigation was hailed as a coordinated effort, involving the U.S. attorney's office, the U.S. Department of Justice's Civil Rights Division, the FBI, U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, the San Francisco Police Department, the Internal Revenue Service and the State Department's Diplomatic Security Service.

Officials said the operation successfully dismantled a "large criminal organization" headed by Young Joon Yang, 37, of Pleasant Hill, Calif.

Brad Schlozman, acting assistant attorney general for civil rights, said the still-unfolding investigation appeared to be "one of our biggest" nationwide. Officials said the San Francisco investigation unraveled a "sophisticated criminal enterprise" and therefore was a more serious case than the one brought in Los Angeles.

According to the indictment, two defendants -- Wu Sang Nah and Sung Yong Kim -- are believed to have smuggled at least two female Korean nationals across the U.S. border from Canada. The women were then taken to Virginia, Los Angeles and eventually San Francisco to work as prostitutes.

The indictment alleges that Young Joon Yang operated a taxi service and travel agency dedicated to transporting those two women as well as many others to and from brothels throughout San Francisco as well as to other prostitution engagements in Las Vegas and other cities.

Many of those arrested worked as drivers or support staff for Young Joon Yang. The more than two dozen men and women indicted face charges of conspiring to bring in and harbor aliens, sex trafficking, money laundering conspiracy, and transporting women in interstate commerce to engage in prostitution.

The indictment does not specify whether the women were working off smuggling debts or engaging in prostitution against their will. Advocates said 20% to 30% of women in such situations typically are coerced into prostitution and that the rest are working as prostitutes voluntarily.

Kevin Ryan, U.S. attorney in San Francisco, said information about the circumstances of their prostitution will probably emerge in the coming days.

"There's a belief that San Francisco is a major player in human trafficking," he said. "It's a gateway to the Pacific, and this is a city where many of the women are brought."

Friday afternoon, several dozen shocked family members and friends crowded into a federal courtroom to await the first court appearances of the detained, as defense attorneys milled about to pair with potential clients.

"It's a very broad sweep," San Jose criminal-defense attorney Tak Chang said of the raids. "I suspect some of these people will be very minor players -- drivers and receptionists. This might be a tactic to get the bigger fish."

Times staff writer Lee Romney, reporting from San Francisco, contributed to this report.

[Bill Bradsky]

Here is a story about a PO who was working with a provider. The provider would place an ad, meet the monger , collect her fee, and start the deed. She would call on her cell phone before the act to tell the PO where to come to "bust" the monger. After the phony bust the monger would be told he was going to jail unless he paid several hundred dollars.

http://www.belleville.com/mld/belleville/news/local/11917788.htm

[bluishballs]

Timothy Hjertum, 43, of Deptford, admitted phoning a massage parlour advertised in Loot and agreeing to pay for sex.

He also confirmed two sex workers, Wei Ya Cui and a woman known as Carol, had come to his flat in Deptford Broadway on January 8.

Mr Hjertum denied pointing a 6in blade at Miss Cui's throat and ordering Carol to strip after jamming the door with a screwdriver, forcing the two women to escape by jumping 40ft to the pavement below.

Miss Cui was said to have broken her pelvis and jaw in the escape, but Mr Hjertum told the Old Bailey a mystery Chinese gunman had appeared at the door as he was handing Miss Cui £150 for sex with Carol.

He said he heard Miss Cui talking "loudly and aggressively" on her mobile before coming out of his bedroom to investigate.

He claimed the front door was open, and said he saw a Chinese man with a gun on the fire escape talking to one of the women.

"He lifted up his arm with a gun in his hand," Mr Hjertum said.

"I lifted up my hand and pushed the fire door really hard and ran downstairs. I just wanted to escape."

Wearing a black polo neck jumper, his head shaved, Mr Hjertum wiped tears from his eyes when the Old Bailey jury found him not guilty of false imprisonment on Tuesday.

[Bill Bradsky]

Your tax dollars at work. Here is the US DOJ manuel for SW. Required reading for those into the SW scene:

http://www.cops.usdoj.gov/pdf/e05021552.pdf

[Bill Bradsky]

Violent criminals walk and yet a massage worker gets a billion dollar bond. What a judicial system.

http://www.onnnews.com/Global/story.asp?S=3513638&nav=LQlCbPCY

[Hizark21]

The Costa Mesa police have been using decoys to bust guys. They were also using the criminal intent to solicit law as well
(http://www.dailypilot.com/front/story/16954p-23710c.html )

I am very interested to find out what grounds constitute. Criminal intent to solict. Normally it refers repeatedly circling or beckoning someone passing by. Usually the cops use the law to bust the girls.

[Stoner]

Hizark...its usually associated with loitering with intent. Loitering laws differ from area to area.

In many cases, merely slowing down or stopping a motor vehicle to talk is a case of loitering with intent. Very, very ambiguous and has been shot down in some cases where fought (like San Diego if memory serves me correctly.)

[Bill Bradsky]

From the Tribune

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...mepagenews2-utl

[Bill Bradsky]

They dropped that link so here is another try.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-0507140125jul14,0,220653.column

[Best Tx Monger]

Fans,

How does law enforcement treat sw activity in your area? In Dallas, Tx police always stop them but usually give them a slap on the wrist / verbal warning.

I would think that here and in other cities, as soon as a cop sees a sw, they should be arrested. Don't get me wrong here !

I say that because that is the right thing to do and I if my hard earned tax dollars are not at working in this arena. Then it makes me question everything else that the police does and how it spends my money.

Thankfully, I am a monger and so I benefit when Dallas finest are handing out slaps. But it un-willingly makes me question law enforcement and how much they are really enforcing the law in reference to life in general ??

-007

P.S. Then again, Dallas police did
get caught setting up a drug bust !

[PsyberZombie]

It's Trve , boys = being an under·cover cop using tax·payer dollars to go to AMPs and get jerked off is dirty work , but some·body's gotta do it , right ??

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1007053handy1.html

[Frank Booth]

Great find Psyber. I wonder if the DA will pass the crusted washcloth 'evidence' around the jury during the trial...

[PsyberZombie]

.... because once yer *Busted* , it's Too Late =

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1012053refund1.html


p.s. = Apparently the Video Vig had nothing to do with this particular Arrest

[PsyberZombie]

Every Monger at some point blows more money on a girl than he should have

..... but take heart , Gentle·mongers = at least you arent' *this* guy !!! =

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/1026053hull1.html

[PsyberZombie]

Dog Darn , do I *hate* these Stories , be·cause they demonstrate yet again how the Legal System — and especially the Criminal Justice System — is so stacked against us MEN

Here's the story of a guy who infected *seven* women with HIV getting sentenced to basically a Life Sentence ; while your average HIV+ Hooker exposes seven men A NIGHT to their dis·ease = when's the last time you heard of one of them getting major league Hard Time for their Crimes ??

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9917108/

[Civ2000]

Maybe its just me, but I feel this guys 21 year sentence was well deserved. Its probably biased on my part, but I feel a guy (or woman) deliberately infecting people is different than a drug addicted prostitute selling herself to feed her habit. I guess, for me, it's because I personally assume every prostitute to be HIV +, and if I roll the dice and go bareback, then I assume the responsibility for my health. Whereas, if I meet a gal through traditional means, I'm much less careful.

Now, if you took this same guy, and he was having unprotected sex at gay bathhouses, I think his sentence would have been much shorter, because again, I think the jury or judge would feel any rational intelligent adult would know the risks of going bareback in such a situation.

[PsyberZombie]

Maybe its just me, but I feel this guys 21 year sentence was well deserved. Its probably biased on my part, but I feel a guy (or woman) deliberately infecting people is different than a drug addicted prostitute selling herself to feed her habit. I guess, for me, it's because I personally assume every prostitute to be HIV +, and if I roll the dice and go bareback, then I assume the responsibility for my health. Whereas, if I meet a gal through traditional means, I'm much less careful.


You would better serve Your·self if you assumed that EVERY woman who agreed to have bare·back Sex with you
was HIV+ , Civ·2K

What makes you think that the Non·Virgin yer jumping has NO communicable dis·eases ?? Or is HIV·neg ??

If you follow this Train of Thought out to its Logical Conclusion , you'll have to Admit that sending a MAN
to PRISON for LIFE — for having done what a Woman Street·Walker does on a nightly basis — is just UN·FAIR !!!

[Bad Bad Boy]

I think the key issue here is whether the man or woman KNOWINGLY infected another person.

If they knowingly infected another person with the deadly HIV virus (a probable death sentence), then throw the book at them. If they did NOT know they were infected with HIV and it could be proven, they should receive some lesser punishment.

The gender issue should be treated neutrally. In other words, men and women should be treated the same when it comes to administering the law.

When it comes to equating the punishment of a drug dealer, prostitute, or someone who knowingly infected another person with HIV is another matter. That may be trying to compare apples and oranges.

BBB

[Civ2000]

You would better serve Your·self if you assumed that EVERY woman who agreed to have bare·back Sex with you
was HIV+ , Civ·2K

What makes you think that the Non·Virgin yer jumping has NO communicable dis·eases ?? Or is HIV·neg ??

If you follow this Train of Thought out to its Logical Conclusion , you'll have to Admit that sending a MAN
to PRISON for LIFE — for having done what a Woman Street·Walker does on a nightly basis — is just UN·FAIR !!!

I think I'll pass on serving myself since I always wear protection. I carry my own, but most of the SW's I pick up don't really seem to care if I wear one or not. I wear protection because I assume she has something that I don't want to catch.

I'm quite aware that any gal I meet might have a communicatable disease, however it is a risk I'm willing to take at this time. I've been vacinated against Hep A & B; am not too worried about gonnorhea, syph, or clamydia as they can usually be treated; nor am I worried about herpes since it is a minor and relatively easily treated disease; so that basically leaves me with HIV. Since it is still relatively rare in non-drug using and non SW females, it is a chance I'm willing to take.

Now, I still believe that guy deserved life in prison. He was deliberately infecting females, almost for the fun of it, so it seems. We had a guy in our state do the same thing. Now the SW should probably serve a lenthy sentence as well, especially if she is deliberately infecting Johns. I still think a guy is an idiot if he has bbfs with a hooker. If he assumes she is HIV + like I do, he can bang her seven nights a week in relative safety if he wears a condom. I've known two HIV + SW's and both always insisted on condom use, usually to the loud and boisterous protests from their customers.

[PsyberZombie]

Originally posted on the Orange County , California Board =

http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=400200&postcount=1224

[PsyberZombie]

Strippers are Hookers , and the Hooker who hooked the biggest Fish in history is Anna Nicole Smith (http://www.deathtoallextremists.com/images/Wallpaper/Anna%20Nicole%20Smith.jpg) , who managed to get an 89 yr old Texas Oil Tycoon / Billionaire to marry her shortly be·fore he died

A decade later , Anna Nicole and the Family of the guy are *still* fighting over his Estate . And now George Dubya has stepped in·to the fray , backing Ms Smith !!

Here's an Article titled **** White House Aids Playboy Playmate in Court **** =

http://*******.com/doctf

I had visions of Roberts , Scalia , and Thomas declaring them·selves unable to make up their minds and so requiring Ms Smith to appear in chambers for a Private Session to "See if she can prove that she's worth all those Millions"

.... but in reality , the Case is only about clarifying an arcane Legal Doctrine known as Supplemental Jurisdiction (http://www.law.pitt.edu/wasserman/other7.htm)

May·be next time , boys !!

[Jet Ranger]

http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=33300&archive=true

Patronizing a prostitute is now a specific crime for servicemembers

By Jeff Schogol, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Saturday, January 7, 2006

ARLINGTON, Va. — For the first time, the Department of Defense has specifically made it a crime for a servicemember to patronize a prostitute. The punishment: up to a year in prison, forfeiture of pay and dishonorable discharge.

The formal order came in a presidential executive order signed without fanfare Oct. 14, directing changes in the Manual for Courts-Martial. It is part of an assault the military has been waging against human trafficking.

A Defense Department spokeswoman, Lt. Col. Ellen Krenke, said in an e-mailed response to questions that “prostitution” and “pandering” will now be among the offenses covered by Article 134 of the courts-martial manual.

Paying for sex used to fall under the “Solicitation of Another to Commit an Offense” listed as part of Article 134, which executes the corresponding section in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Krenke said.

It prohibits “all disorders and neglects to the prejudice of good order and discipline in the armed forces” and “all conduct of a nature to bring discredit upon the armed forces.”

But the October executive order makes prostitution and pandering specific offenses, she said.

Krenke said that the DOD made the change as part of its effort to combat human trafficking by taking on the sex exploitation industry, as set forth in a December 2002 National Security Presidential Directive that says in part:

“Our policy is based on an abolitionist approach to trafficking in persons, and our efforts must involve a comprehensive attack on such trafficking, which is a modern day of slavery. In this regard, the U.S. Government opposes prostitution and any related activities, including pimping, pandering, or maintaining brothels as contributing to the phenomenon of trafficking in persons.”

The military needs to change its general mind-set that tolerates prostitution, said Sara Mendelson, senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and International Studies in Washington.

Mendelson, author of a report on human trafficking and peacekeeping in the Balkans, said the military needs to get the word out about the change on prostitution to make it effective.

“The issues is not whether activists or experts in Washington, D.C., know about it, it’s whether the soldier in the field understands; it’s whether the commander in the field understands that this is a change from the previous regulation in the Manual for Courts-Martial,” she said.

As early as November 2004, the services began to write online training courses that cover prostitution within the framework of human trafficking, Krenke said.

Krenke said it teaches that “you don’t have to be a professional criminal to contribute to the trafficking industry. You aid and encourage trafficking in persons without engaging in it directly, by hiring a prostitute.”

While the change to the courts-martial manual makes it clearer that prostitution is illegal, Marine commanders from the top down already know that prostitution is a punishable offense and have taken steps to combat it, wrote Marine Corps spokesman Maj. Douglas Powell via e-mail.

“Marines are briefed by their commanders, especially those who are deploying overseas, that they should not engage in prostitution,” Powell said.

[PsyberZombie]

Krenke said it teaches that “you don’t have to be a professional criminal to contribute to the trafficking industry. You aid and encourage trafficking in persons without engaging in it directly, by hiring a prostitute.”

This is like saying that you 'aid and encourage' Chop·Shops by buying a car

A even better analogy is one that the government and anti·drug groups actually do use = that you 'aid & encourage' terrorism when you buy a baggie of marijuana

[ see = http://www.usembassy.it/file2001_12/alia/a1120508.htm ]

Of course , if the pot was legal in the first place , you wouldn't have to find an illegal source for it , with the proceeds ending up in the hands of terrorists instead of the Tax coffers

[Sexmoron]

A even better analogy is one that the government and anti·drug groups actually do use = that you 'aid & encourage' terrorism when you buy a baggie of marijuana Use this same logic on gass guzzlers: You support terrorist countries when you drive around in a gass guzzler; and see how pissed off people get.

Yet it seems to me that this is more true than the drug analogy.

[PsyberZombie]

Proof positive that the trannies are out there , Gentle·men =

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/02/02/060203014239.ygp5w1s5.html

[PsyberZombie]

May·be *this* will keep Uncle LEO from shaking down the local SWs for free BJs to go with their do·nuts =

http://www.local6.com/news/6833079/detail.html


p.s. Pinellas County is where St Petersburg & Clearwater , FL are located

[PsyberZombie]

With his camera skills , this fired LEO would make a great addition to our little community , don't you think ??

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0208061munsey1.html

[PsyberZombie]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0203062strip1.html

Also good is the part about = " undercover officers infiltrating the joints and, in some instances, receiving lap dances that, um, rubbed the cops the wrong way "

YOUR tax dollars at work !!

BTW , Pasco County is home of Port Richey ; and is just north of Pinellas County [ see Post # 331 below ]

Don't you people have any REAL Crime to worry about down there ???

[PsyberZombie]

These LEOs are actually getting *paid* to get Laid !!

When does the next Police Academy begin ?? — I'm thinking of signing up

http://*******.com/amp3r


p.s. = *******.com randomly assigns URLs ; it's purely a co·inky·dink that *this* one has 'amp' in it

[Frank Booth]

An update on the story...

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11413980/

[Rockett Man]

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0217062contract1.html

there are five pages... but it is worth the read. LOL so funny.

[Bill Bradsky]

Do you actually believe that the women in the AMPs are victims of human trafficking. One interview I had the other day the person said that the news and politicians use the link between AMP and human trafficking like Bush used the link between Iraq and weapons of mass destruction. Both links are not valid, (atleast in the Korean MPs in RI), but the link is made to get the public up in a tissy.

Keloid-

You are right about that but there is another reason local police and sheriffs label everything they can as "trafficking". The reason is money.

Local departments need and want federal funds. Millions of federal tax dollars have been mandated to be given to any local LE that has a "trafficking problem" but does not have the funds to investigate.

Suddenly every sex bust in every local Heehaw County in the country is some foreign conspiracy related to "Human trafficking" and the tax dollars flow to local departments that are politcally correct. Church and state have never been closer.


BB

[PsyberZombie]

A Fourth of July salute to America's hardest working entertainers

Baseball. Hot dogs. Apple pie. Lap dances. Is there anything more American? Heading into the long Fourth of July weekend, TSG salutes the country's hard-working strippers, who are now regularly being arrested for the most victimless of crimes (prostitution, indecent exposure, etc.). As you peruse the mug shots of these persecuted pole dancers, don't forget that you're actually staring into the face of what makes this country so great. Happy Independence Day, indeed.

http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/0630062strip1.html

[Bill Buxton]

The general charge is at the top LEWDNESS,what's up with that?You drive down the street in any metropolitan city in the world and a large percentage of the general public could be charged with this.


B.B...

[Bill Buxton]

Whats the difference when the cops go into a business and get free coffee and donut's?

Same thing prostitution,they get payed to keep up the wonderful services they provide.Free this and that in return for whatever they can get.They feel better about the way they do it because it's configured in a different way.Portraylal of the city's finest,it's a hell of a way to earn a dollar.

B.B...

[Benchseats Rock]

http://reuters.iwon.com/article/20060720/2006-07-20T121844Z_01_WEL135203_RTRIDST_0_ODD-NEWZEALAND-POLICE-DC.html

Here's the text... The U.S. is so far behind the civilized world...

Cop censured for under the covers work
Email this Story

Jul 20, 8:18 AM (ET)

WELLINGTON (Reuters) - A woman police officer moonlighting as a prostitute has got off with a caution, New Zealand police said Thursday.

The unidentified officer, stationed in the country's biggest city Auckland, was discovered last year to have been a prostitute for a short time.

"The officer concerned has been counseled. Under police procedures this amounts to a censure," Deputy Police Commissioner Lyn Provost said in a statement.

The police officer, who was understood to be having financial difficulties, had not sought permission to have a second job. Such applications are considered on a case-by-case basis.

"This type of secondary employment would never be approved given that the type of work is inappropriate and incompatible with policing," Provost said.

New Zealand made prostitution legal in 2003.

An Auckland spokeswoman for the New Zealand Prostitutes' Collective -- a welfare and lobby group for sex workers -- told the NZ Press Association that a prostitute might earn as much as NZ$500 ($312) on a busy night.

Asked if she had heard of other police officers moonlighting as sex workers, she said: "We have law students that are sex workers, we have doctors that are sex workers. I mean anyone can be a sex worker."

[Double Nickle]

I am quite disgusted with recent assaults on individual liberties. Police are confiscating condoms and even lingerie to use as evidence in prostitution cases. Some massage parlors are forbidding the presence of condoms - which usually means a handjob is all you'll get - if even that. More parlors might have providers dress in street clothes if the presence of sexy clothes is used against them. In Waterbury I got used to readily available (10 AMP's) safe, scrupuously clean, sex with scantily clad lovelies (well, naked at the climax). Condoms were always used. Let's face it, it was paradise. Waterbury AMP's are now shut down. Riskier and IMHO less pleasant SW sex is now the Waterbury norm.

Condomless massage parlors are less safe. Handjobs don't pay as well so girls will be tempted to sell up to barebacked blowjobs. Plus customers want more. A bare backed blow job is relatively easy to sneak in without notice. And no condom for evidence. Hopefully no barebacked humping is going on. But there is more risk of STD's with increased BBBJ's.

Law Enforcement would be doing their job of protecting the public better if they gave out condoms rather than using them for evidence. Hell, maybe they ought to provide low cost transportation to the USA for Korean sexworkers and open up their own clean, safe brothels equipped with barrels and crates of condoms.

Double Nickle.

[Rosco2]

Someone named TrojanGreg recently wrote on another site, "Just before Christmas they raided. And closed about 15 [Clayton County AMPs] permanently. " Clayton County is in Georgia

That's an interesting statement by TrojanGreg, because here in Columbia, Missouri ("Tiger Country" 100 miles west of Saint Louis), police raided and closed 2 long-established Massage Parlors: Lynn's and Fuji's. Lynn's Massage Parlor had operated for at least 12 years, if not a lot longer. Fuji's Sauna had been open since at least the early '80's.

Like in Georgia, this happened a week or two before Christmas and a week or so after. In the month of December a year earlier, police raided and closed a third Columbia parlor. December seems to be a bad month for massage parlors.

What is going on? Is there a nation-wide connection? Do other people know of long-time operating parlors that have been shut down *suddenly*? I mean these parlors had been open forever. I really miss visiting Lynn's. Could the Bush administration have coordinated a national "close-the-parlors" campaign?

Columbia has had the same mayor and police chief for many, many years, so I don't think they instigated the closings. If anybody has been to Lynn's, you know how good it was.

[Rosco2]

I just learned of two more mass closings of massage parlors across the country.

In late November, 2006, "Double Nickle" wrote in the "Rookie Monger Discussions" that:

"There were 10 Asian Massage Parlors (AMPs) in Waterbury, Connecticut where I lived. Then all 10 Waterbury AMPs were shut down."

So now we have a third example of multiple closings.

The mass shut-downs in Waterbury happened in August, 2006. So we have Columbia, Missouri; Clayton County, Georgia; and Waterbury, Connecticut. I have to wonder if there are more--perhaps many more--unusual raids and closings that happened in 2006.

These 3 examples that I currently know about happened across the country, dispersed across a wide geographic area: The Northeast, the Southeast, and the Midwest, and all occurred in 2006.

Something seems fishy to me, and I have to wonder if there was some sort of federal coordination involved.

Maybe my suspicions are wrong, but then maybe they're not.

Oh, I forgot to mention that there's yet a fourth unusual example of multiple parlor closings. Somebody writing on another site mentioned that three AMPs in the Seattle-Tacoma area near Lakewood were shut down. That expands our geographic distribution of mass parlor closings in 2006 to also include the Northwest. There definitely seems to be a federally coordinated effort to raid and close parlors.

Not all of them are AMPs, by the way. Lynn's, for instance, was a regular MP.

If anyone knows of other unusual closings across the country, please let us know.

[Bad Bad Boy]

If anyone knows of other unusual closings across the country, please let us know.

Rosco, I am seeing a trend in Maryland where there is an all out effort to close down "adult" businesses.

It's all part of a political ploy to convince constituents that they are getting tough on crime. You will see this especially around election time. I also think some of this is cyclic as the pendulum in our Country swings back-in-forth from conservative to liberal.

In the past few years in Maryland, I have seen adult movie theaters, massage parlors, escort services, bath houses, and the like closed down or go out of business. There has also been a increased effort to crack down on prostitution too.

LE and our politicians use a variety of unique ways to shut down these adult enterprises. Rezoning an area is a favorite ploy, stricter licensing laws on starting these businesses, harassment of established adult businesses by LE, to mention a few.

No telling where all this is going to end up. Only time will tell.

BBB

[Double Nickle]

That is the conundrum that exists when you use legal definitions. My first 2 massage parlor visits were in London, England in 1972 and 1973. A late starter, I was still a virgin at the time.

At the first place I got a sauna and a great Swedish massage. Haircuts were also available, but no hand job or other such extras. At the second place I got a massage and a hand job. I don't believe other extras were available. In United States legal code I believe a handjob is considered sex, the lady performing it a prostitute, and the massage parlor where it is performed a brothel. I do not believe the legal codes define a virgin otherwise than the dictionary definition. My dictionary defines a virgin as a woman or man who has not had sexual intercourse, defined as the joining of male and female sexual organs. I certainly did not consider myself to have lost my virginity until I got FS at the Oasis Health Spa, Times Square, New York City in 1974.

I really think it would be better for the legal code to conform to dictionary usage. A handjob is just a handjob, not sex. The masseuse performing it is just a masseuse, not a prostitute. The massage parlor she is working at is just a massage parlor, not a brothel. Certainly those are the opinions of those Chinese masseuses who perform this service as an integral part of the massage (not all do).

Double Nickle

[Bad Bad Boy]

That is the conundrum that exists when you use legal definitions. I really think it would be better for the legal code to conform to dictionary usage.
Double Nickel, you have to remember that our judicial system was designed FOR and BY lawyers for their self-serving interests (i.e., money). The laws are vague or obtuse purposely to confuse people to facilitate more litigation. Hence, the more confusion, more money for the lawyers.

This really came to light during the Clinton/Lewinski fiasco over the definition what constitutes sex. Clinton claimed that getting a blow job did not meet the definition of sex, only sexual intercourse did, so he never had sex with her. That started the proverbial ball rolling regarding dictionary vs. legal definitions of various terms.

I agree, I think the legal and dictionary definitions should be consistent and useable in a court of law.

BBB

[Broome333]

That is the conundrum that exists when you use legal definitions.

Double NickleWhile I am not a lawyer, I have glanced over the laws dealing with prostitution and other sex offences (you would be suprised how often such things are lumped together in the legal world, as if buying sex from a consenting adult is the same as child molestation). I have noticed that many of the vice laws contain language something like "any act aimed toward providing sexual gratification". The purpose of such language is to take away all the what is and what isn't sex arguments without having to list every single act that could possibly fall in the category or for that matter allow a sympathetic jury room to let a guy off because they can't accept buying a handjob as paying for sex. Bottom line the lawyers (prosecutors) use a blanket statement to cover all the bases with plenty of room to twist and bend things to fit their purpose. With this type language if a guy gets off on touching a chicks nose that meets the standard and is considered a sex act and is thus grounds for conviction. Stupid? Yes. Possible? Definately.

[Snake27]

I am quite disgusted with recent assaults on individual liberties. Police are confiscating condoms and even lingerie to use as evidence in prostitution cases ...

Condomless massage parlors are less safe ...

Law Enforcement would be doing their job of protecting the public better if they gave out condoms rather than using them for evidence ...

I certainly agree with this post ! Condoms should NOT be used as evidence, or even as a point of suspicion. IF THE POLICE VALUE PUBLIC SAFETY THEY SHOULD AT LEAST IGNORE CONDOMS. I hope some of them read this.

I was pulled over once by police (probable cause: white guy with nice car in the 'hood, I guess, but I didn't ask). They asked if they could search my car; I said ok. The only suspicious item were condoms. This prompted the question: "Were you looking for prostitutes ?". My answer: "No, I am taking those to use with my wife." What idiot would say otherwise ?

I have read that street prostitutes are sometimes busted because they carry condoms. If true, it is a tragic disincentive to do the right thing.

[PsyberZombie]

President 'Dubya' is obviously more inner·rested in , say , building power plants
in Iraq that are nowhere near any transmission lines , than he is in , say , rebuilding
New Orleans

... but who would have guessed that he would be responsible for turning Damascus
into a pay-for-play vacation destination ??

Used to be that you'd only go to Syria for a Golf vacation
.... why ?? Because there's 18 holes in every building !!

The skinny =>


For Syria’s brothels, thank an American

07:45 AM EDT on Tuesday, August 21, 2007

M. J. ANDERSEN

EVERY EVENING in Damascus, Iraqi women and girls, some barely in
their teens, wait to be chosen by men. Some parade in slow circles;
others dance on stages. Despite a powerful Arab cultural taboo,
some even approach men in the street.

The women are refugees who fled to Syria to escape the war. Often,
their fathers and brothers have been killed. Forbidden by Syrian
law to take Syrian jobs, they have accepted the job of last resort.
No one knows how many Iraqi refugees have turned to prostitution to
survive, in Jordan as well as Syria. But it is thought to be at
least in the thousands.

The Iraqi women show up almost as a footnote in a recent report on
the link between human trafficking and AIDS.

Published in the Aug. 1 Journal of the American Medical
Association, the report mainly tracks the incidence of HIV
infection among Nepalese prostitutes. Working with the State
Department, researchers from Harvard and Boston University studied
nearly 300 girls and women brought home from neighboring India,
where they had been sold into the sex trade.

The younger the girls, researchers found, the higher the risk of
infection. Those forced into prostitution before they turned 15 had
an infection rate of 61 percent, compared with a 38 percent rate
for the group overall.

The cruel irony is that the younger girls are preferred, because
their customers think they are less apt to carry disease. Some also
believe that sex with a virgin cures AIDS. As a result, younger
girls tend to be held in brothels longer, increasing their chance
of infection.

Those who escape are often ostracized by their families and home
villages. Their only alternative is to keep selling themselves.

“Some of them are just shells,” noted Dr. Jay G. Silverman, a
professor at Harvard’s School of Public Health. “It’s absolutely
heartbreaking.”

Human trafficking in India has flourished for decades. But this is
the first time anyone has documented its connection with AIDS. The
same pattern is turning up in southern China and Afghanistan. While
conditions in South Asia are the worst, with an estimated 150,000
women and girls forced into the sex trade annually, it is just a
matter of time before the Iraqi refugee women become part of the
same lethal syndrome.

This was not the script we sought to hand them. Early on, President
Bush added women’s rights to his endlessly growing list of reasons
to invade Afghanistan and Iraq.

“In many Middle Eastern countries,” he noted in a 2003 speech,
“women lack rights and are denied schooling.”

“The future of Muslim nations,” he added, “will be better for all
with the full participation of women.”

At the time of the 9/11 attacks, Afghan women were unquestionably
suffering under the Taliban’s harsh rule. But Iraqi women were, for
the most part, educated and active members of their society. The
U.S. invasion dramatically reduced their status. With Iraq
destabilized, homegrown Muslim fundamentalism flowered, forcing
many women to give up their jobs and to cover themselves lest they
be attacked.

In retrospect, those were the good times.

With more than a million refugees now living in Syria, and few
hopes of employment, the unthinkable has come to mean survival.
Mothers pimp for daughters. Sisters take turns.

One place Iraqi prostitutes cluster, according to a New York Times
report, is along the road to a historic convent where pilgrims look
to the Virgin Mary for miracles. Among the most frequent customers
are groups of Saudi men, who come over for a recreational weekend.
In Syria they can drink and dance. And the Iraqi women come cheap.

President Bush, it seems, cannot do enough for the Saudis, who help
keep us mainlining oil. Only a few weeks ago, he announced plans to
seek a huge arms-sale package for their country, just to keep Iran
from getting ideas. (Iraqi refugees may not benefit, but American
defense contractors will.)

What of it if the Saudis are prolonging the Iraq conflict by
funneling money to Sunni factions? There is even word that some
Saudis are entering Iraq to join the fray. Bush’s policy
preferences mean that, for now, Saudi men, especially, are in
clover.

That Iraq’s refugee women, humiliated and desperate, are trapped in
this sordid circle is bad enough. That they are forced, in the
bargain, to court fatal disease is monstrous.

Last month, a seemingly oblivious House passed a resolution calling
on Japan to apologize for its sexual slavery during World War II.
Japan should of course do so. But we might look better in the eyes
of the world if we looked to our own failings first.

The White House may not have consciously set out to create a new
caste of sex slaves. But that is what it has done — sickeningly,
under the banner of expanding women’s rights. We owe the Iraqi
women more than an apology. We owe them a way out.

M.J. Andersen is a member of The Journal’s editorial board.


Source = Providence Journal http://*******.com/29baqs

[Big Red50]

Hello Mongers

Thanks for the heads up by Dr. Bombay on USASG DC Escort Reports board http://www.usasexguide.info/forum/showpost.php?p=565850&postcount=470. Police are now posting phony CL ads and arresting unsuspecting innocent mongers in sting hotel rooms, how dare they. Has LE gotten smart or Mongers dumber? This is a question for senior members.

I usually try to date escorts CL, Eros, TBD that have been reviewed somewhere, but when they look and sound hot, and I am horney and little red takes over the balance of Big Red, Yeah I take one for the team. Big Red took six hits for the team in the last year. When a monger TOFTT with CL it will now have a new level of risk and so deserves a new level of respect and appreciation from all members. Newbie’s want to earn your wings take a CL hit for the team and post.

Jacksonville FL CL sting http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/081007/met_190191052.shtml 33 mongers arrested.

Seattle WA CL sting http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/292553_craigslist16.html 94 mongers arrested.

A way to avoid some problems, see if CL girl will due outcall to your place first time, more complicated and not fool proof.

Little red does think about things besides pussy, like not getting arrested when chasing pussy. Thank you little red

little red and Big Red

[Pervert Plan]

Found this on Digg today. LE is really getting carried away with their "gorilla" tactics. Be safe fellas.

CHICAGO --

It was Rocio Palacios who first noticed the woman who appeared to need help.

It was 8 a.m. when she and her husband, Erasmo, dropped their 6-year-old daughter off at school and had picked up their 22-year-old daughter to go out for breakfast when they saw the woman waving her arms at 53rd Street and Kedzie Avenue last November.

The Palacioses, of Chicago, claim the woman approached their car, parked outside Manolo's restaurant, leaned in to the passenger side where Rocio was sitting and asked Erasmo if he wanted oral sex for $20 or sex for $25.

The couple laughed, realizing this wasn’t a woman in distress after all.

But within seconds, Chicago police swarmed the family car, hauling Erasmo Palacios out in handcuffs. He was charged with solicitation of a prostitute

His daughter, who had just run in to exchange her coffee for a hot chocolate, screamed, while his wife cried in fear.

Eight hours later, Palacios, who has no criminal record, was released from custody. And weeks later, charges against him were dropped.

Now, Erasmo Palacios is suing the city and the officers involved in his arrest, saying they violated his civil rights during an incident he described as both frightening and ridiculous.

“I'm so lucky I was with my wife -- imagine if I had to try to tell her and she wasn't with me,” he said, before laughing at the image. “She'd never believe me. Never.”

A Chicago police report offers few details, saying only that it was Erasmo Palacios who asked for sex, never mentioning his wife in the car or his daughter nearby.

Attorneys Lonny Ben Ogus and Joe Cavanaugh also want to know what happened to the family's 1983 Mercedes. It was impounded that November day and, Palacios said, his wife and daughter were even threatened with arrest as they tried to stop police from taking it, as they were left stranded that morning.

The city wants more than $4,700 in towing and storage fees if he wants the car back.

City officials declined to comment on the status of the family's car and the Palacios case, while the undercover female officer involved in the arrest couldn't be reached.

Copyright 2007, Sun-Times News Group

[Kemo Sabe]

Here's a good example of how the police used the internet to trap a few guys in my hometown. Read carefully, there are many good lessons hiding in this article.

‘Johns’ get stung: Prostitution sting leads to 15 arrests
By LINDA N. WELLER
June 23, 2007 - 10:54PM
ALTON — Police charged an airline pilot, a minister, a church deacon, a Maytag repairman and 15 other people in a recent two-day prostitution sting, with some “johns” setting up dates via the Internet.

In the cyber twist, some of the customers responded to a police posting on Craigslist, a widely used Web site that lists ads and messages by locale.

The men who thought they were responding to the ad of a woman actually were making offers to Pfc. Mike Bazzell of the Alton Police Department, specifying the sex act, price and established time, date and place to meet, he said. Police set up an apartment off East Broadway to use for each planned “rendezvous.”

“We put our ad on there with no pictures, no prices or numbers; we didn’t list anything we would do,” Bazzell said. “We said ‘she’ was new to the site, that she was a white female. It was just posted, and immediately men were e-mailing, asking what she looked like and what sex acts she would perform. They had to make the offer to us first; we never offered anything.”

Bazzell had placed the Web posting under the “erotic” subcategory under “services.” It is replete with pictures of women in lewd poses and thinly veiled offers of dates of specified time length for number of “roses” or “kisses,” which really mean dollars.

Once the men made an offer to pay for a sex act, “We said, ‘Come on over,’” Bazzell said.

While police reports usually show “johns” offer $20 or $25 for a sex act in Alton, the men looking to hook up through the Internet during this “sting” offered $100 or more for any of four acts.

“Internet guys pay a lot of money. Internet prices are a lot higher,” Bazzell said.

The first roundup in Alton was June 1, and the second was Thursday. Both efforts involved Alton police only. With street prostitution more active in the summer, Police Chief Chris Sullivan said authorities would continue the crackdown.

Of the 15 men charged with soliciting, four are from Alton, three from Brighton, two from Missouri and the rest from areas near Alton.

“There is no question these guys are coming from other cities,” Bazzell said. “They come from other areas because they feel a sense of safety out of their environment.”

He said their first response to their arrest is embarrassment.

“They immediately ask what they can do to get out of this,” he said.

All of those charged will get their mug shots and arrest information posted on the Alton Police Department Web site (www.altonpolice.com).

The arrests had odd twists.

In one instance, police arrested a man who offered money for sex to a female undercover police officer on the street. At first, they believed he was an Internet “customer” coming to his prearranged date. However, the Internet guy called Bazzell to tell him that he had just seen the other man being arrested near the date site and said they should meet at a nearby fast-food restaurant.

The police presence did not deter him, and he was arrested.

The one woman charged with prostitution had her 6- or 7-year-old nephew with her, ostensibly to discourage a customer from harming her, Sullivan said. She walked to the apartment set up by police, bringing body butter and the child.

“She felt a sense of safety having the child with her,” Bazzell said.

She had advertised on Craigslist offering to provide a genital massage for $100, he said.

Most of the men charged with soliciting for a prostitute, a misdemeanor, were driving around the Fifth and Ridge streets area looking for sex, although some were arrested elsewhere.

Three people were charged with obstructing justice, and one was cited with pedestrian in the roadway. They all warned motorists that police were operating in the area.

Bazzell said the arrests and accompanying publicity probably wouldn’t stifle the Alton police’s anti-prostitution efforts on the Internet.

“These guys want to commit these acts, regardless,” he said. “They always have a fear of police and still go through with it. There is no secret that police are monitoring these Web sites, but it’s not deterring them.”

Sullivan said police realize they can’t eliminate prostitution, but they can at least try to curb the activity, because it affects families when the men spend money on the women or bring diseases home. It also usually is tied to other criminal activities — such as drugs and thefts or robberies.

“The reason this is important is that this is an illegal activity, and it also is dangerous,” he said. “It increases traffic; they may or may not be drinking alcohol.”

For neighbors, a woman coming home from work at night or teenage girls standing in their yard have to put up with men “coming by and making lewd offers or hooting at them, which diminishes the quality of their lives,” Sullivan said.

Some residents are working hard with police and the Weed and Seed strategy to fight crime and improve the condition of the areas, including Hellrung Park. Prostitution only hurts their efforts, the chief said.

“This activity needs to cease or go anywhere else,” Sullivan said.

To also keep down street crime, and to acquaint themselves with neighbors, police have resumed foot patrols in areas of high crime and Downtown, where crowds of people eat and drink. Police also reopened the substation at Sixth and Ridge for residents to report problems and hold meetings.

Police also will resume their practice of sending out postcards to motorists who they, or neighbors, notice circling the blocks in three inner-city areas and stopping to talk to women or harassing them.

The postcards, visible for all to read — particularly wives, girlfriends or children who may ask questions after getting the mail — say that police are concerned about the motorist’s safety because “there are high levels of crime present in these areas, often in the form of prostitution and drug dealing.”

[Oager]

First off prostution is legal indoors in Rhode Island.

If you should get pulled over here in rhody just tell the police the truth. 99 percent of the time you will be let go. Don't give them some bullshit story they know what and why you picked her up for. I've been pulled over 3 times in providence I have yet to be arrested by providence police. Yet all 3 times the girl was arrested for warents or unpaid fines. This is just my experiences.

[Rosco2]

Letter (May 1, 2005)

It comes as no surprise that the Eastside Business Improvement Association is the driving force behind Vancouver's vice-squad initiative to further criminalize johns.

Business associations have long been at odds with street sex-trade workers.

CREDIT: Les Bazso, The Province

Battling prostitution might just mean legalizing it.

There are few voices from the street that can overcome the financial muscle of business.

However, I believe both business associations and police vice squads have little idea of the repercussions further criminalizing the johns will have.

By jailing the johns, the street sex-trade workers are denied their sole source of income.

This sets the stage for more drug-addicted women to commit more violent crimes.

This proposal removes income but does not eradicate addiction. Like their male counterparts, female addicts will also be sent in larger numbers to prison, with longer sentences.

Taxpayers will end up supporting a larger female prison population.

To remove the only source of income for most female addicts will only result in escalating violence.

The police and businesses have been warned but obviously don't care.

The cost will be extracted, as always, from the desperation of the street sex-trade worker.

From: www.missingpeople.net/without_johns_prostitutes_are.htm

[Bill Bradsky]

Recent study done by a bunch of egg heads in Chicago.

Notice the finding in this report that "Prostitutes are more likely to have sex with a police officer than to be arrested by one.".

http://www.economist.com/finance/economicsfocus/displaystory.cfm?story_id=10533877

[Daka1]

"Prostitutes are more likely to have sex with a police officer than to be arrested by one."In addition to the illuminating quote above, I noted the following:

"Sex workers can expect to be violently assaulted once a month."

"Illegality and lack of regulation are likely to heighten public-health risks."

It seems that many laws have unintended consequences that short-sighted legislators and so-called "morality" groups fail to foresee or understand.

[Rosco2]

This is from Officer.Com , a web site I like to check from time to time.


Indiana Officer Allegedly Helped Run Prostitution Ring

Posted: Thursday, July 3, 2008

Story by theindychannel.com

GREENWOOD, Ind. --

An Indianapolis Metro police officer is accused of helping his wife operate an escort business out of her Greenwood home.

The officer, his wife and a former Marion County Sheriff's Department employee were charged Wednesday in the prostitution ring.

Johnson County Prosecutor Lance Hamner said that arrest warrants had been issued for Lori Vernon-Lee, 36, Jeremy Lee, 30, and Jerry L. McCory, 56.

Police said Vernon-Lee recruited women to be escorts and work out of her home.

Officers said she was generally paid about half of the money the escorts collected when they performed various sex acts.

According to a probable cause affidavit, Vernon-Lee's husband, Jeremy Lee, took money from the escorts while wearing his IMPD uniform.

Another probable cause affidavit alleged that McCory, who was a civilian MCSD employee, paid one of the escorts to perform a sex act on him.

Hamner said escort services were advertised in Nuvo magazine. IMPD began an undercover investigation about two months ago, 6News' Ericka Flye reported.

Acting on a tip that the ad was tied to a prostitution ring, investigators conducted a sting.

"Apparently they used an undercover officer to call up that number and say he wanted to have a girl and they would make arrangements, and that's what they did," Hamner said.

Vernon-Lee was charged with five Class C felony counts of promotion prostitution. Jeremy Lee faces one count of aiding in or promoting prostitution and McCory faces one count of patronizing a prostitute.

McCory resigned from his position with the MCSD and Jeremy Lee was called in Massachusetts, where he was serving in the military, and was told he had been fired from IMPD, 6News' Jack Rinehart reported.

"It's pretty shocking. Every profession has its bad eggs, but when you see something ... that involves moral turpitude of this nature, you just think that there's a certain amount of respect that somebody would have for the uniform even if they don't want to be a part of it," Hamner said.

IMPD Chief Michael Spears weighed in on the case late Wednesday to express disappointment that another police officer has been implicated or charged in an ongoing investigation. Within the last two weeks, four other IMPD officers were indicted on drug or gun-related charges.

"It's very difficult for me to use the term officer with this man's name, because once he started this type of activity, he clearly separated himself from any role within this police department," Spears said. "We're disgusted by his conduct. We're ashamed of him, and I think the thing that the public needs to know is that this investigation started by the work of members of our own agency."

Prosecutors said more charges are expected in the prostitution case. Vernon-Lee turned herself in to authorities Wednesday night.

Copyright 2008 by TheIndyChannel.com . All rights reserved.

[Bill Bradsky]

Notice fewer busts lately? Most departments have cut 10% or more of their force because all levels of government are running out of money due to the recession. That makes things like murder go to the top of the enforcement list and things like who is getting a HJ or getting laid go to the bottom, where they belong.

[Gigabyte40]

How does LE check work when a hobbyist visits with a provider?

What do you ask each other to do, and how does this prove that neither one is LE.

Just wondering what exactly takes place to ensure neither one is LE.

[Technicalone]

How does LE check work when a hobbyist visits with a provider?

What do you ask each other to do, and how does this prove that neither one is LE.

Just wondering what exactly takes place to ensure neither one is LE. You can search the forum for "22 rules to mongering". Upon my review, it gave me a better idea of how to be prepared for the situation.

[Crazy Jim Wood]

Just wondering if any legal eagles have a say on this?

Fucking in a car is public indecency, but what about in an RV?

What about the cab of a semi-trailer?

Any opinions?

[Member # 2552]

Police using "legit" providers to make stings / busts. Not new, but a lot of times people think just because they have been with someone before they can break the rules. Always follow the rules.

http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/local/article_85498996-01bf-11e0-940a-001cc4c002e0.html


2 arrested in sting for soliciting sex.

By Nolan Rosenkrans | nolan.rosenkrans@lee.net | Posted: Tuesday, December 7, 2010 12:00 am.

A century ago, johns strolled Second Street in Winona to meet prostitutes. Now, they find them online. Police conducted a prostitution sting Wednesday in Winona, Deputy Police Chief Tom Williams said, turning a prostitute into a confidential informant and busting two men for soliciting her for sex.

Though Winona had been known for its red light district on Second Street, it was the first such operation police could remember in Winona since stings in the 1980s at local massage parlors.

Officers discovered classified advertisements on the Rochester, Minn, version of website Backpage. Com — a website similar to Craigslist — advertising sexual encounters with women. Both Backpage. Com and Craigslist have been criticized for allowing prostitution advertisements.

'It was pretty blatant that it was advertising sex, ' Williams said.

Members of the Southeast Minnesota Narcotics and Gang Taskforce and the Winona County Rural Crime Unit answered an ad and set up a meeting with a woman at a Winona motel. After officers told her it was a sting, she agreed to aid in the investigation, Williams said.

The woman had not been charged as of Monday.

Two men, Thomas Paul Davy. 26, of Hokah, Minn, and Anthony Michael Schallau. 38, of Owatonna, Minn, called the woman separately and arranged to meet her in Winona at the motel, which Schallau's attorney identified in court Monday as the Sterling Motel.

Employees at the motel actually called police as they were conducting the sting operation and reported suspicious activity at the motel, Williams said.

Both Davy and Schallau came to the motel and agreed to pay for sex, and each were cited for misdemeanor soliciting prostitution.

Both men appeared in court Monday because prosecutors initiated forfeiture actions against their vehicles.

[Member # 2552]

Stop giving these escort agencies or anyone for that matter your information. You don't want to be subpoenaed because you wanted a little fun.

http://detnews.com/article/20101210/METRO/12100387/Miami-prostitution-ring-busted-open-in-Metro-Detroit-hotels


December 10, 2010 http://detnews.com/article/20101210/METRO/12100387

Miami prostitution ring busted open in Metro Detroit hotels.

Feds threaten to reveal black book listing customers if case goes to trial.

ROBERT SNELL.

The Detroit News.

Metro Detroiters helped build Miami Companions into one of the country's largest escort services, paying up to $500 an hour to have sex with prostitutes and porn stars at area hotels.

Detroit also is where the sex ring unraveled.

The USA Attorney's Office and FBI busted the international escort service in July, indicted the owners and three employees on various prostitution or money-laundering charges and seized a potentially explosive piece of evidence. Federal prosecutors are threatening to wield the ring's not-so-little black book bulging with tens of thousands of customer names and possibly call clients as witnesses if the Miami Companions criminal case proceeds to trial in USA District Court in Detroit.

Federal court records, FBI files obtained by The Detroit News and interviews with defense lawyers illustrate how a husband-and-wife team in Miami ran an Internet-based sex empire that dispatched waves of prostitutes to hotels and beachfront villas around the world and listed Detroit as one of its busiest stops in the United States.

Few tour stops had more clients than Metro Detroit, where johns spent more than $167, 000 between March 2007 and January 2009 on Miami Companions prostitutes, according to the feds, despite a prolonged recession, high unemployment and thousands of lost manufacturing jobs.

The clients helped Miami Companions rake in more than $4 million, which fueled a lavish lifestyle for the ring's accused pimp and madam, according to court records.

The bust, however, wiped away the money, the million-dollar penthouse and a Costa Rican cathouse. Miami Companions owners Greg and Laurie Carr are divorced, broke and pitted against each other in federal court — she's pleaded guilty and is cooperating with prosecutors.

"This is a weird way of life, do you understand?" said Laurie Carr's attorney Oscar Rodriguez."Things have a way of unraveling when you live in this mode."

The USA Attorney's Office said prosecutors will use the black book against Greg Carr, a 44-year-old Dearborn Heights native who they allege co-owned and ran the ring under an alias made for Motown: "Paul Cutlass."

"Greg had nothing to do with the girls getting caught, doing something they shouldn't have been doing in Detroit," Carr's attorney, Paul DeCailly, said."He's not a pimp."

Accused masterminds.

Yes he is, according to court records.

Prosecutors say he's a methodical businessman who court records show he and his wife hired an ex-Detroit cop to rob hookers who didn't turn over money from dates. He used a complex web of firms to launder cash and stashed the black book overseas in a failed bid to avoid law enforcement's reach, according to the feds.

His trial date on various prostitution conspiracy and money laundering conspiracy charges hasn't been set.

His attorney says Carr's a Midwest guy, the son of a paramedic, father of a 5-year-old son, a graphic designer by trade.

"Gosh, he's just mild-mannered," DeCailly said.

The masterminds were Carr's wife Laurie. 39, and Michelle Matarazzo. 37, the sex ring's office manager and an ex-prostitute, the attorney said.

"The government made deals with the devils," DeCailly said.

Rodriguez, who represents Laurie Carr, denied she ran the escort service.

" (Greg) was the face and head of this whole thing," he said.

Laurie Carr on Oct. 22 agreed to plead guilty to money laundering conspiracy and prostitution conspiracy charges. If she provides substantial help, the government will recommend a 12-month prison term.

"Nobody's perfect," Rodriguez said.

One prostitute busted in early 2008 told investigators Miami Companions never forced escorts to have sex with clients. Sex was their choice. When they did have sex, the Carrs let prostitutes keep 60 percent, minus some travel expenses, according to court records.

"Laurie and Michelle would get nasty with the girls if they didn't pay," DeCailly said."He'd just let them go."

Either way, there was a lot of money flowing into Miami Companions. And the Carrs went to extraordinary lengths to hide the cash, prosecutors said.

A key date.

The door to room 308 at the Courtyard by Marriott in Novi could have used a turnstile because there were so many men entering and exiting Jan. 7,2009 — a key date in the government's crackdown of Miami Companions.

Inside was a porn star and part-time Miami Companions escort named Brianna Beach, the 34-year-old star of such adult films as "Best of Blackzilla 2," "Bubble Bottoms" and "I Scored a Soccer Mom 4."

Agents with the Southeast Michigan Crimes Against Children Task Force, which includes the FBI, knew she was in town for three days and charging $500 an hour after checking an adult Web site used by traveling escorts.

Approximately every hour, task force officers spotted men entering and leaving the room. They busted two, including a man identified in an unsealed FBI search warrant as "A. Z," a West Bloomfield customer who had hired Miami Companions prostitutes 15 times. Or maybe it was 20 — he'd lost count.

He told officers he put $500 cash on the dresser and had sex with Beach, whose real name is Melissa Sternberg.

After the date, investigators learned Sternberg had hailed a cab to a nearby Bank of America branch and deposited $710 in the bank account of a company called MC Consulting Assoc.

Investigators would soon learn the Florida company was headed by Greg Carr.

At the peak, Miami Companions prostitutes were turning 100 tricks a day, generating cash that needed to be systematically tracked, counted and laundered through a web of companies, according to federal court records.

The cash went from the nightstand to the Carrs' pockets after being funneled through the Bank of America and Fifth Third Bank, according to the records.

The accounts were under the names of four companies — including MC Consulting Assoc. — either headed by Greg Carr or two of his former prostitutes: Florida residents Fabiola Contreras and Matarazzo, who ran the Miami Companions office after ending her prostitution career. Otherwise, Greg Carr would be waiting at the airport, welcoming the hookers home with his hand out, according to records.

'Dressed well, lived well'

Greg and Laurie Carr spent the money freely.

Married in 2002, they reigned over the Miami Companions empire from a $1 million penthouse condo in Miami and owned a $1. 6 million mansion in Miami Beach.

They were well-known in Miami's vibrant social scene.

"They dressed well and lived well, of course," said photographer Patrick Pell-Richards, who shot photos of Miami Companions escorts that were posted on the ring's Web site."But so does half of Miami."

The Carrs spent millions operating call centers in Panama and Costa Rica, renting beach houses in Mexico andColumbia and running a Costa Rican brothel where clients could fly in for the weekend, according to the feds.

There were warning signs leading up to the couple's indictment July 21.

"They were too greedy and too hot. They were trying too hard to make too much money," Pell-Richards said.

Black book organized.

The Carrs put as much thought into organizing the ring's little black book as they did the money-laundering operation, according to investigators.

The Internet-based database was password-protected and hosted on a server in Panama to avoid law-enforcement's reach.

The USA Attorney's Office is keeping strict control over the black book, defense lawyers say. If they want to see it, lawyers have to make an appointment.

A USA Attorney's Office spokeswoman would not say whether the office will publicly disclose clients or call them as witnesses.

The veil of secrecy covering the database is suspicious, said DeCailly, Greg Carr's attorney.

"I'd imagine there's some public officials, public figures on the list," DeCailly said."There's got to be a reason the government doesn't want to just give it to me."

[Joseleche]

Stop giving these escort agencies or anyone for that matter your information. You don't want to be subpoenaed because you wanted a little fun.

http://detnews.com/article/20101210/METRO/12100387/Miami-prostitution-ring-busted-open-in-Metro-Detroit-hotels

I agree! As little as possible.

[Gdlint]

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_sextrade/all/1

[Chamber]

Police using "legit" providers to make stings / busts. Not new, but a lot of times people think just because they have been with someone before they can break the rules. Always follow the rules.

http://www.winonadailynews.com/news/local/article_85498996-01bf-11e0-940a-001cc4c002e0.htmlThis frustrates me to no end. I have a stressful job, and I can't get out and make connections like I'd like to. I have a couple hundred bucks, and I want to spend it on a good time, and maybe help someone pay their rent. Why is this a bad thing if it's consensual?

[SoCalMonger]

I was wondering what the LE rules are when visiting a escort? The cop check seems logical. I heard somewhere that you can be arrested for merely showing up. The cops could possibly use a "intent to solicit prostitution" charge or a "visiting a house of prostitution". I have also noticed recently that a lot of BP girls are doing only outcalls?

[Gorilla69]

I would say it is literally "What can the beholder see?" Can they see you having sex in the RV? Not unless you leave the curtains open. You can also be charged for public indecency for having sex in front of an open window of your own house. As for as a semi-truck, can someone see you? The Sleeper cab would be private. I think it is a matter of common sense. Is it visible to a child walking by?


Just wondering if any legal eagles have a say on this?

Fucking in a car is public indecency, but what about in an RV?

What about the cab of a semi-trailer?

Any opinions?

[SmileyScout]

I was wondering what the LE rules are when visiting a escort? The cop check seems logical. I heard somewhere that you can be arrested for merely showing up. The cops could possibly use a "intent to solicit prostitution" charge or a "visiting a house of prostitution". I have also noticed recently that a lot of BP girls are doing only outcalls? (Standard disclaimer, this is not intended as legal advice. This is just the subjective opinion of one person.)

Like pretty much every law ever, the answer is "it depends". It depends on the particular state / county / city, it depends on the particular D. A, it depends on the particular judge, and it depends on the particular cops. Generally speaking, there's plenty of evidence LE can use to prove intent, even if all you do is show up. If you're carrying a large amount of cash along with condoms / lube, that can be used against you. If you use known terms like GFE, FS, or HE, that can be proof of intent. Hell, in Portland all you have to do is be loitering in an area "known for prostitution", and you can be arrested for intent to solicit. The cop check works ok for mongers since an undercover LEO is not going to want you groping her tits, but they'd probably bust you before it got to that point anyway.

The reason a lot of BP girls are doing outcall only is because they work for an agency. Independent girls would usually rather do incall, since it gives them way more control over the situation.

[JohnnyTheWad]

This frustrates me to no end. I have a stressful job, and I can't get out and make connections like I'd like to. I have a couple hundred bucks, and I want to spend it on a good time, and maybe help someone pay their rent. Why is this a bad thing if it's consensual?It is because the government is constantly in our business. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for outlawing prostitution under MOST circumstances. If I want sex and a girl is willing and I want to give her money she needs, that is NONE of the government's business. There will always be mongers, seeking out willing partners in the world's oldest profession and there is NOTHING the LEOs can do to shut it down.

[Crazy Jim Wood]

http://www.wired.com/magazine/2011/01/ff_sextrade/all/1Great article

[Param Ahmad]

According to a February 15, 2013 news report, the Supreme Court of the state of Maine has ruled as follows:


"Places of prostitution and people who knowingly frequent them to engage a prostitute are not sanctioned by society. Accordingly, it is objectively unreasonable for a person who knowingly enters a place of prostitution for the purpose of engaging a prostitute to expect that society recognizes a right to be safe from surveillance while inside."http://www.wmtw.com/news/maine/Court-upholds-dismissal-of-46-counts-in-Kennebunk-prostitution-case/-/8792012/18564628/-/14p43wt/-/index.html#ixzz2LAJYxS7J

According to the news report,"prosecutors argued before the Supreme Court that the suspected johns, who were recorded without their knowledge, had a reasonable expectation of privacy."

The prosecutors were, obviously, correct. What happened is the manager of a brothel had a secret camera in the room where customers ("johns") thought they had privacy, and they were video recorded without their knowledge in violation of that expectation.

The Court's ruling is outrageous. It further undermines my confidence (such as it was) in America's courts.

Perhaps the Court's real purpose is to discourage prostitution.

[Seva Lurker]

Here's another way LE is trying to discourage would be mongers.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/15/st-louis-police-to-reportedly-target-prostitution-using-bright-postcards/?intcmp=latestnews

[Bill Bradsky]

It is because the government is constantly in our business. There is absolutely no justifiable reason for outlawing prostitution under MOST circumstances. If I want sex and a girl is willing and I want to give her money she needs, that is NONE of the government's business. There will always be mongers, seeking out willing partners in the world's oldest profession and there is NOTHING the LEOs can do to shut it down. The only group making more money from prostitution than the working girls is LE. While the illegal side makes billions from prostitution customers, the legal side is getting tens of billions paid by tax payers trying to stop it.

[LittleRascal]

The only group making more money from prostitution than the working girls is LE. While the illegal side makes billions from prostitution customers, the legal side is getting tens of billions paid by tax payers trying to stop it.I wonder if there is anything we can do about this, if there is any way to fight back. I don't mean in a physical way, I mean in political, legal, social, or moral kind of way. (I think how the NFL made a statement over the incident in Ferguson was an interesting approach toward influencing public opinion about police misconduct. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/12/nfl-rams-ferguson-protest).

All too often I read about, and see LE not saving lives, stopping violent crimes, or making any real difference in the world but rather just giving people who had no real ill intent a hard time. And quite often those they target seem to be the poor, and least able to fight back in any sort of legal or political sense. (Ex: Just want to smoke weed and live in peace, you can go to jail. Just want to pay for sex and live in peace, you can go to jail. Can't afford to take care of a problem with your car so that it's legal, you can go to jail, etc. - BUT if you're rich, you can probably find a way to get away with those things if you want). And if they're not enforcing petty laws, it would seem they like to just sit and chit chat with their patrol cars parked in 69 patterns, or just standing around at carnivals or fairs (family friendly places) looking pretty on our dime, but not really making much of a positive difference in the world. At least not most of the time anyway.

I'm tired of seeing how they use fear and intimidation to control certain segments of society, while often looking the other way when dealing people of power and influence in the upperclass, who without the benefit of their wealth, are no better. If only we could harness the anger felt towards LE over incidents like that which occurred in Ferguson for our own purposes. If only there were a way to fight back on a legal or political level as to undermine their power and authority in places where it is not being well used. Guess its just a wonderful fantasy on my part, but wouldn't it be awesome if there were a way?

[Hargow20]

I noticed today that the LA county sheriff's is having problems finding qualified recruits. They mentioned that some candidates were disqualified because they had been arrested for solicitation. I am always amazed how the media and LE act's how serious a crime prostitution is. Prostitution is really a morals and nuisance offense at best. LE often argues that these girls are victims of human trafficking. In my mind if a girl is SW it is really up them if they want to do something else. There is nothing stopping them from hopping on a bus or asking help from a cop. As for nuisance the only big issue is when some mongers are indiscreet and or toss their condoms out the window.

(http://www.latimes.com/local/california/la-me-deputy-shortage-20150531-story.html#page=1).

[GetLost]

I once was caught in Sunset Park as this chick was actually blowing me. Embarrassing and scary to say the least. However these cops were pretty cool and were looking for drugs. I stayed cool and they stayed cool. Turned out the chick I was with had outstanding warrants (no surprise there) so off she went. I was let go with a lecture on how dangerous and scary these girls can be. I then high tailed it out of there.

Another time and this is why I'm very cautious now. I picked up a WSW in Sunset park and the cops must have seen it. I'm usually observant but I guess I missed it and they were on us like white on rice. Of course I was with a known prostitute and just on that alone I was locked up for solicitation and she was too as well. Although she was screaming the whole time I was just giving her a ride I kept my mouth shut. I spent 24 hours in the lockup and what a shithole. OMG it was hot as hell and stunk. I was appointed a lawyer and she argued my case and did a good job. The charges were dropped and she explained to me I was lucky because if I was found guilty they could have seized my car. I still had to pay to get it back, so I'm just convinced it's a money grab for the city. I'm not married so I don't have that to worry about. But she told me I did everything right. I stayed calm. I followed their instructions and was respectful and most importantly I DIDN'T talk.

[Trust Lust]

I have been pulled over twice with prostitutes in my car once in San Antone and once in Austin. Both times were to have happened in the very early Nineties. During each instance, the cops were to immediately cuff the girl and confiscate the dope she was to have just bought. They proceeded to tear my car apart in search fo more contraband. They went on to tell me that I was in the wrong part of town; that the girl was a known prostitute, and that I did know that already enough to not be told. I went on to stare at them in a confused sort of way all the while shaking my head. They went on to take the girl to jail both times, and both times they did tell me that they were taking me to jail were they to catch me on that side of town again that night. Anyway, I had to remain in that evil place for another thirty minutes, after they were to have left, in order to put my car back together.

Were they to have taken me to jail, I would have had to stay in jail at least a month for time served. A court appointed attorney would have come with the news, that a deal had been reached with the state, and that he was going to take the side of the state. " want to sit in jail for another six months and let a jury find you guilty or signz zee papers and get out in a couple of hours?" No congratulations for my standing up to the cops would have been given, and the public defender would have further shamed me for breaking the law. "Actually you deserve to be punished more for this, but I am obligated to go along with the state, and that is what I'm here for," would have been his words. My car would have been forfeited for police auction, and the police department would have been able to keep all of the proceeds.

The key is to cruise in a beater, that will cost the department more to tow and auction off than it will possibly bring. Nowadays, however, should you argue with the cops in Austin or San Antone, and you are white, the cops could very well shoot you dead on the spot and never be billed for it. In such an instance, I doubt very seriously any news would even be reported on the matter. Now that my beater stays parked, out in front of my house, in the Onion Creek Subdivision, my neighbors constantly whine on and on about it being an eye sore.

[WhiteLake830]

Was back in my hometown, hate to name the Florida city, but during my visit wanted to visit my old cruising area. Surprisingly not much action that night, but as I started to head out I stopped for gas and a WSW strolled up asking if I was looking for a date. Well, clock was against me but went along.

After the deed, CBJ to CFS, we re cleaning up and suddenly there are lights behind the truck, then blue lights. A true ah crap moment. Apparently a silent alarm had sounded and we were in the wrong place. She was known by the LEO to have HAGS disease. The evidence had been disposed of out the window in the rain and mud. Handcuffed and placed in one of the cruisers, her in the other. Answer the questions don't elaborate. Finally, with no evidence and no drugs found in my vehicle, mine or hers, she is going on a vacation and I have a choice.

1. Go to jail overnight be released in the am (prob empty threat) but not in my plans or cover story.

2. The cop calls my wife and explains that I was found with a SW following sex and I was heading back on my journey. (Yeah, like he'd really do that). HE DID!

The fan got dirty fast. Marriage has survived with many scars. Counseling revealed some places of need in of work in each of us. Fifteen years later some things have changed, some old habits are hard to break.

Men have needs. They will be met. Self service has limited benefits.

[StrRobert]

Interesting story here links: http://esplerp.org/here-is-the-brief/ and https://liberatetoemancipate.tilt.com/.

[StrRobert]

Interesting story here links: http://esplerp.org/here-is-the-brief/ and https://liberatetoemancipate.tilt.com/.Related video about this historic case link here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YELd1GgVwXQ.

[StrRobert]

California. Latest video and article about this historic lawsuit "You Have a Right to Buy and Sell Sex. Will the Courts Protect It By legalizing Prostitution?" link http://reason.com/reasontv/2015/07/23/the-right-to-buy-and-sell-sex.

[StrRobert]

All information and update about the historical court case. Decriminalization of prostitution in California is here http://www.decriminalizesexwork.com/.

[MeyghaMann]

All information and update about the historical court case. Decriminalization of prostitution in California is here http://www.decriminalizesexwork.com/.It looks like this is still not a thing.

[Cappadona]

https://www.freep.com/story/news/2018/06/28/miami-university-professor-underage-sex-indictment/741131002/

According to this article, the FBI is involved on the site.

Be careful my brothers.

[Param Ahmad]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jennyheineman/sex-trafficking-myths-sesta-fosta

The Sex Trafficking Panic Is Based On Myths.

Politicians and moral crusaders insist we need sweeping new laws to combat a so-called sex trafficking crisis. But their claims are easily disproven by the facts.

[Escorts2]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jennyheineman/sex-trafficking-myths-sesta-fosta

The Sex Trafficking Panic Is Based On Myths.

Politicians and moral crusaders insist we need sweeping new laws to combat a so-called sex trafficking crisis. But their claims are easily disproven by the facts.I totally agree with your opinion and of course you absolutely right.

[JJ Gittes]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jennyheineman/sex-trafficking-myths-sesta-fosta

The Sex Trafficking Panic Is Based On Myths.

Politicians and moral crusaders insist we need sweeping new laws to combat a so-called sex trafficking crisis. But their claims are easily disproven by the facts.Alamance County, NC is an adjacent a county bordering the county where I reside. Since June, the Sheriff of Alamance County has conducted no less than 7 stings on 'human trafficking' with multiple LE organizations. The most recent stings have been joint operations between Alamance County Sheriff's Department, North Carolina Bureau of Investigation and the US Department of Homeland Security.

Despite the stated purpose of these operations, not a single person has been charged with anything related to human trafficking.

Here are a few examples:

28 charged in sheriffs two-day prostitution, human trafficking sting

Operation End of Summer" occurred Sept. 18 and 19 in conjunction with the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, the State Bureau of Investigation, and Mebane, Burlington and Winston-Salem police.

https://www.thetimesnews.com/news/20190923/28-charged-in-sheriffs-two-day-prostitution-human-trafficking-sting

Same operation from another news source with a more titillating headline (Note: nobody was charged with human trafficking):

Police operation leads to 27 arrests for human trafficking

https://www.statesville.com/news/state/police-operation-leads-to-arrests-for-human-trafficking/article_facacc6f-bbaf-502e-b5b2-62fa49f11f3c.html

Fourteen men were charged in an Alamance County prostitution sting Wednesday

Dubbed "Operation Summer Special," the sting was a joint effort between the Sheriff's Office, Burlington police, State Bureau of Investigation and the U.S. Department of Homeland Security. The operation took place on the west side of Burlington, according to the Sheriff's Office.

Of the 14,13 were charged with misdemeanor solicitation of prostitution; one man faces a felony solicitation charge. Three of the defendants were also charged with drug possession and related crimes. Officers seized $1,725.

https://www.thetimesnews.com/news/20190815/14-charged-in-alamance-county-prostitution-sting

29 charged in Graham prostitution sting

https://www.greensboro.com/news/crime/charged-in-graham-prostitution-sting/article_caa1df2d-e505-59a1-8cc0-f9613220d2df.html

9 charged in Graham prostitution sting

"We have a major problem with prostitution and human trafficking in Alamance County," Johnson said. "North Carolina is ranked No. 9 in the nation (NOTE: Coincidentally?, North Carolina is ranked ranked 9th in state population)" for human trafficking, and it's time that law enforcement did something about it. ".

Though the men arrested each face multiple charges, Johnson has said he believes state law needs to be changed to make the crime of johns, or individuals who patronize prostitutes, a felony rather than a misdemeanor.

"I am adamant about pushing for legislation to make solicitation of a prostitute a felony because, if you cut the demand, you will cut the supply," Johnson said. "It is all money-driven. ".

He said such demand has led to women "being abused" as part of sex trafficking..

https://www.greensboro.com/news/crime/charged-in-graham-prostitution-sting/article_caa1df2d-e505-59a1-8cc0-f9613220d2df.html

[Panache]

https://www.newsweek.com/san-francisco-district-attorney-public-urination-prostitution-not-prosecute-1471475

Maybe I'll move to SF. About time that LE realizes that many prostitutes are choosing to sell sex of their own free will; they are not being forced or coerced to do so. And, by patronizing them, we are helping them to support themselves so that the government doesn't have to. Hopefully, more lawmakers and LE will start to see the light.

[RJohn1969]

Alamance County, NC is an adjacent a county bordering the county where I reside. Since June, the Sheriff of Alamance County has conducted no less than 7 stings on 'human trafficking' with multiple LE organizations. The most recent stings have been joint operations between Alamance County Sheriff's Department, North Carolina Bureau of Investigation and the US Department of Homeland Security.

Despite the stated purpose of these operations, not a single person has been charged with anything related to human trafficking.

Here are a few examples:

https://www.greensboro.com/news/crime/charged-in-graham-prostitution-sting/article_caa1df2d-e505-59a1-8cc0-f9613220d2df.htmlIMHO, follow the money. Special interest monies that come from grants that originated by special interest dollars create enforcement of a law / rule. Libertarian side of me coming out.

[TheLibertarian]

https://www.buzzfeednews.com/article/jennyheineman/sex-trafficking-myths-sesta-fosta

The Sex Trafficking Panic Is Based On Myths.

Politicians and moral crusaders insist we need sweeping new laws to combat a so-called sex trafficking crisis. But their claims are easily disproven by the facts.One most people. I am against sex trafficking. If they wanted to end sex trafficking, allow for people to exchange consideration for sex, and it would make it harder to have sex traffickers. When it's done in secret, it makes bad things more likely.

[DrPornDawger]

I wonder if he won.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1349336/Student-sues-Vegas-escort-agency-1-8m-hooker-leaves-half-hour-early.html